S05.E12: Souls Of The Departed

[Camera One]

You don't need a sign that says, "I'd Turn Back If I Were You" to let Emma know the Underworld is not a place you want to go to.

The Writers knew it was the 100th and they wanted to up the cameos, so they used Neal for three purposes:

1. Exactly what you said. To make it all ominous and to reinforce how dangerous it is. To be cryptic in terms of how it "might not turn out the way you want it to".

2. To be a fake-out. Emma was with Neal, who was dead, was the amusement park the Underworld? Then it pulls out, and nope, she's still on the boat en route.

3. Introduce the idea that with no unfinished business, you end up in a better place, which was necessary for Henry Sr. later ascending to the heavens.

They got this cameo out of the way first, so they wouldn't break the flow since all the other cameos were pretty much villain, villain, villain and people from Regina's past. Who knows how they couldn't forsee the outrage that some would experience watching that scene, or maybe they just don't care.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

This whole thing was told as different stories, but could have been woven together. The show used to do that quite well until it all became more of a joke about everyone being related.

 

3x11 did a better job being a milestone, imo. I enjoyed the random flashbacks of the different characters' lives, even if they weren't all extremely meaningful. I wish they would have followed a similar formula here. (Even if it was a linear narrative that featured many characters.)

[Camera One]

The Neal scene was a "labor of love" by all involved, according to Adam, if that helps.

 

And it even got an analysis:

http://tvline.com/2016/03/07/once-upon-a-time-season-5-neal-returns-loves-emma/

 

Was it worth the long wait?  No... considering what wastes of time cameos other returning characters got in recent arcs (August?  Red?), I suppose that's not the exception but the norm.

 

I still think we should have gotten a 2 minute conversation where Neal told Henry where to find the Dunbroch water to use on the grave-site.  

[Rumsy4]

So, Henry was there to witness his grandpa ascending to heaven, but didn't deserve to see the father he really misses. Would it have killed A&E to include Henry in the scene with Neal and Emma?? Priorities.

[Camera One]

He got to touch the key to Neal's room.  This show is about hope.

[Shanna Marie]

I think there's a difference between unfinished business and regrets. I doubt anyone dies without there having been something they wished they'd done or done more of. Just about everyone would wish they had more time with loved ones. The unfinished business seems to be more like an incomplete life mission. Neal seemed to be at peace with everything when he died. He would have liked more time with his son, but he'd reconciled with everyone in his life. He might have been stuck in the Underworld if he'd died before Emma found him again, if he'd still been hiding out in New York, knowing Emma and his father were in Storybrooke but avoiding them. So far, it seems that the people we've seen in the Underworld were villains or villain-adjacent. Henry Sr. had failed his daughter by not protecting her from Cora and by not being able to turn her against revenge, and he'd even aided and abetted some of Regina's villainy, so reconciling with her and learning that she had finally turned herself around allowed him to move on. Though that brings up the question of why they would care about helping all those villains move on, since villains are all we've seen. Was Henry Sr. even in Underbrooke, or was he elsewhere and summoned by the Scottish Skyping Juice? If he was elsewhere, then maybe there's some other "not moved on" holding area that isn't Underbrooke.

 

I'm also curious how much the dead know about what's going on in the world of the living. Would Neal have known about the vow his father made at his grave? It didn't seem like Henry Sr. knew that Regina had turned her life around, and it didn't seem like he knew about Henry Jr. But then James knew about David and David's wife. I'm not sure James knew during his life that he was adopted and had a twin, since George was passing him off as his son and the adoption was a deep, dark secret. But even if James knew he had a twin, he died before David met Snow, so James got some info about what was going on after his death.

 

You're in a place where there are people who have been dead for a long time. People die on this show all the time. Wouldn't Snow want to see if her parents were there? David should want to see if his mother was there and should be curious about his brother. Wouldn't Robin wonder about Marian? Rumple spent centuries trying to find Baelfire, but he's not outwardly searching now. Regina found out that her father was free to go to his afterlife because she existed or whatever, but that didn't really convey that all these people were there because of them. They should all be freaking out a little about it at this point. At least a little, "Yay my loved one is in a better place, but that sucks for me because I could have seen them one more time."

That's a consistent weakness with this show, that they're so focused on moving the chess pieces around the board to create the plot that they forget about normal human reactions. They're seldom allowed to react the way any normal human being would in these extreme situations. I suppose I give them some credit for mostly being very mission-focused and looking for Hook rather than getting sidetracked by trying to arrange family reunions.

 

If I were Robin, I'd be worried that Marian's unfinished business involved her husband shacking up with her torturer and would-be executioner and impregnating her actual murderer.

[Camera One]

The real Marian died without knowing any of that stuff.  Though you'd think she would have the unfinished business of not being able to see her husband and son again, from that sad conversation we saw in the jail cell with Emma.

 

And why does Cruella have unfinished business?  She wants to be able to kill someone again?  

 

Once again "unfinished business" is not defined, so like everything else, it's all fuzzy wuzzy whatever is convenient to the plot.

[Shanna Marie]

The real Marian died without knowing any of that stuff.

And James died without knowing about Snow, since he died before David met her. So we don't know what the dead know about the living. Would wanting to see her child again count as a regret or true unfinished business? Did she carry out whatever mission she was on before she was captured by Regina? Though I seriously doubt that we'll see Marian in the afterlife because that would only make Outlaw Queen look bad (or else we'd get the real Marian giving her blessing, which ick).

 

And why does Cruella have unfinished business?  She wants to be able to kill someone again?

That's why I'm questioning this plan to help people move on, since the only even marginally good person they've encountered so far was Henry Sr. Otherwise, they've only met David's evil twin who committed genocide on the giants, the blind witch who killed and ate children, Cora, Pan, and (in the distance) Cruella. So why do they think they have some kind of mission to help the people in the Underworld move on? Or are they going to set out to send Cruella and company to hell? If they wanted there to be move of a mix of people in the Underworld and set up this idea of helping people move on, they needed to introduce some good people in the episode that established the place, but I guess they were more excited about bringing back all the villains for the 100th episode instead of all the other dead loved ones of the main cast.

[Camera One]

I know Marian might know in hindsight (like James did), but when she died, Robin shacking up with Regina couldn't have been the unfinished business.  So if she were in Underbrooke, the reason she was there would not be related to Regina/Robin.

[Shanna Marie]

So if she were in Underbrooke, the reason she was there would not be related to Regina/Robin.

But Robin might still dread seeing her for those reasons. Or not, since he's not allowed to have human emotions. I just said that if I were him, I'd worry that would be what was going on, even if it wasn't rational. Just think how awkward things would be with him and her, since he's sleeping with the woman who tried to murder her and had a baby with the woman who did. So that's one person who's not going to be seeking out his dead loved ones and probably praying that she had no unfinished business.

 

Would Snow just assume that her parents are in heaven? Yeah, Eva was so evil as to tell the truth about a person committing a scam, but she didn't seem to have unfinished business, and she did turn her life around and raised her daughter to be a good person. Leopold might regret having married a psycho, but it's not like he had a task left undone. Ruth died making sure her son and daughter-in-law could have a child, but maybe James would be her unfinished business -- since she and her husband sold him and didn't bring him up themselves, he turned out bad and maybe she needs to do some mothering in the afterlife.

[Camera One]

Would Snow just assume that her parents are in heaven? Yeah, Eva was so evil as to tell the truth about a person committing a scam, but she didn't seem to have unfinished business, and she did turn her life around and raised her daughter to be a good person. Leopold might regret having married a psycho, but it's not like he had a task left undone. Ruth died making sure her son and daughter-in-law could have a child, but maybe James would be her unfinished business -- since she and her husband sold him and didn't bring him up themselves, he turned out bad and maybe she needs to do some mothering in the afterlife.

 

I agree with you that Snow and Charming should still have wondered and worried.  Maybe we will see that.  I really hope so.  Anything to give them actual human emotions instead of walking around spewing exposition.

[MedievalGirl]

This is one of those episodes that's never going to be neutral for me. Everything with Regina and her father had me crying my eyes out. My father died just a few days before. It was kinda like first season where stores about babies and adoption felt too close even though they were unrealistic. 

 

So my father had been ill for some time. You don't need to send me hugs or sorry for your loss. It is just, damnit Once, stop reading my Facebook feed. 

I'm a such a dork.  

[darkestboy]

Far better than anything we got in the first half of the season. The Underworld certainly had some interesting developments though.

 

Regina's birthday flashback worked pretty well and I liked that her father managed to go to a better place while Cora got the ultimate punishment of them all.

 

Hades is a way better villain than Arthur was in the first half of the season. I think this could be a very fun arc ahead.

 

Liked the brief appearances of Neal, Pan, Blind Witch and so on. The Emma/Hook stuff was okay enough though I thought the latter would've had a slightly bigger role.

 

Surprised we didn't get a brief look at Zelena in Oz though, 8/10

[Amerilla]

The Neal scene was a "labor of love" by all involved, according to Adam, if that helps.

And it even got an analysis:

http://tvline.com/20...rns-loves-emma/

 

 

I thought the TVLine piece made some good points.

 

MRJ may not have been part of the show for very long, but it's clear he's still part of the OUAT cast "family," and they wanted him in the 100th - which is very sweet, really. I think a lot of us remember the social media crap-storm around the spoilers that he was being killed off and the implications of trailer-trashing and etc, which he shot down on Twitter as soon as Quiet Minds aired. That he would sneak back for a cameo removes some of that sour taste, and shows he probably wasn't bullshitting when he said he would always be a Oncer. :-)   

 

To their credit, they came up with a way to do it that didn't hurt continuity and didn't create needless complication and didn't distract from the episode as a whole. It got some exposition out of the way and established some of the "rules." It continued the process of re-humanizing Emma after the DS arc because of course Emma would try to save both Neal and Hook. It would be completely unlike her not to do so. It called back to earlier points in the show's history, and MRJ and JMo did a really good job with a very limited scene. (And I say that as someone who is generally unenthused with JMo's acting.)

 

It also did right by Nealfire and his story. I know he's not a favorite in these parts, but I think in wider fandom there are Nealfire fans and casual viewers who wouldn't have liked seeing him trapped in the UW with the grandfather/manical boy-child who held him captive for [insert timeframe here] or the mother who abandoned him. As exretable as Quiet Minds was, Neal made his choice to let go from what was positioned as the greater good, he said his I love yous and his goodbyes, and he died in the arms of the people who had loved him the most. For a character whose backstory was one of loss and isolation over the course of centuries, it would have been a pretty crappy story if we found out that he was "rewarded" with a trip to Purgatory, with that isolation and loss continuing into infinity.

 

While the argument that they should have used this as an opportunity to let Henry have closure is not without merit, I think if they had tried to have the two of them meet, hug it out, and send Neal to his final peace, it would have felt really half-assed. (Plus, Henry as a character needs a wound more than he needs closure. That can wait for the series finale.) Same with Rumpel - given that MRJ could only do a cameo, trying to ram through a scene where Rumpel inevitably would have had to let Bae go yet again would have felt redundant and tacked-on. The way they wrote it, Neal was either a messenger from above, or Emma's unconscious, which, under the circumstances, was the best way to use him.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Amerilla

[YaddaYadda]

That he would sneak back for a cameo removes some of that sour taste, and shows he probably wasn't bullshitting when he said he would always be a Oncer. :-)

 

He came back for the finale in 3x22 as well. He would never have come back for that cameo if things had ended on a sour note between he and the writers/show.

 

We can say whatever we want to say about Once, the writing, the stories and so on, but I think the actors are genuinely attached to the show, and genuinely like each other. It's probably a good thing when you see the same faces day after day for 9 months.

Edited March 10, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

To some extent, I think they did handle the journey to the Underworld reasonably. They started out being very on-mission, making it clear that they were going to find Hook and get out of there. Then they got sidetracked by running into people they knew. Henry went looking for his father. Regina ran into Cora (was she actually looking for her, or did she just run into her in the office?). Splitting up without a buddy system probably wasn't the best idea. Rumple, at least, seemed to be on-mission in going to get the Scottish Skyping Juice. But how did he know he would find it in the Underworld version of his shop? If he managed to say goodbye to Belle before leaving, why didn't he take it with him? He said he spent time in the Underworld after he died killing Pan, so did he spend that time in his shop? Was he there with Pan?

 

The most likely way normal people would approach being in that kind of situation would be to start out all on-target -- find Hook, get out -- then one of them running into or seeing a person they lost, and that leading to curiosity about who else might be there, and then having to remember they're on a mission, with the distractions getting more tempting as they go longer without finding Hook.

 

I'm not clear on how this helping people move on is going to work. Can they really help with that if they themselves aren't involved with the unfinished business?

 

And I just had an amusing mental image of Regina setting up a dunking booth so that all her innocent peasant victims could give her payback at once and move on.

[KingOfHearts]

 

He said he spent time in the Underworld after he died killing Pan, so did he spend that time in his shop? Was he there with Pan?

This confused me. Rumple and Pan acted like they hadn't met since 3x11. I thought for sure they had already seen each other in the Underworld. Maybe Rumple was sent to wherever Hook is, away from everybody else? I also found it odd there was a "Mr. Gold's Pawn Shop". That seems to suggest the Underworld came after the Dark Curse, not the other way around.

Edited March 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

And I just had an amusing mental image of Regina setting up a dunking booth so that all her innocent peasant victims could give her payback at once and move on.

 

I'm thinking something more along the lines of a heart-crushing booth, where each victim can whack Regina's heart with one of those large carnival hammers. She would die, come back to life, and then the next person in line could kill her again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Ideally, every villain in the Underworld should have to metaphorically go through each style of death they gave someone else in the real world.

[Rumsy4]

This confused me. Rumple and Pan acted like they hadn't met since 3x11. I thought for sure they had already seen each other in the Underworld. Maybe Rumple was sent to wherever Hook is, away from everybody else? 

 

He probably went straight to the lower levels like Hook. He described it as a horrific place when the Dark Ones were going to replace them in the living world.

[AudienceofOne]

No Hook. No interest.

 

But less facetiously, I find the idea of an entire season of them wandering around the Underworld trying to find Hook while helping people along the way painful. I admit it's partly because I'm such a Captain Swan fan (and because that relationship is the only reason I didn't turn off this show a long time ago) but turning a character into a MacGuffin always bores me. 

 

This episode was ok apart from the endless retreads of a Season 1 that was good as it was and has now been retreaded far too much. I know that Regina is an interesting character and the actress always fucking ROCKS it (and did in this episode) but this is not her show. Having the first episode of the season be the "Adventures of Regina and some other People Who are Near Regina" does not bode well for the rest of the season.

Here's a quandary, if Cora could summon a boat, why didn't she hop on it?  Magick Regina, Henry and Robin on it and take off back to Storybrooke?  She's got a bunch of live souls to trade places with, so why didn't she take advantage of that?

She didn't summon the boat - Hades did because he wanted to get Regina out of there (he seemed annoyingly unconcerned about Emma, which means we're going with the 'Regina is the Saviour Now' thing that pissed me off in the past). And there was no way he would have let her get on it.

[Delphi]

I took that as a stronger in numbers kind of thing. There is no one in the underworld that would have been able to convince Emma to leave without Hook. But Hades could get rid of the people that Emma loved and would have helped her. It almost worked to. Emma told Regina and Robin to take Henry with them. That's three down, three to go.

[YaddaYadda]

he seemed annoyingly unconcerned about Emma, which means we're going with the 'Regina is the Saviour Now' thing that pissed me off in the past

 

 

I sort of disagree with this.

 

Hades seems unconcerned with Emma because there's only one person she is responsible for putting in the UW, and that's Cruella. Meanwhile, Regina killed, or ordered the deaths of hundreds of people. She decimated entire villages, so when he says that he hates losing souls, and that every time the clock ticks it means someone has moved on, it really has nothing to do with Regina being the Savior, and everything to do with Regina being a mass murderer who is making up for the horrible things she has done. 

 

He was also very unconcerned that Rumple, another person that put a few people in the UW is there, because Rumple doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone but himself, and is completely against the idea that they should dawdle around the UW, and help people move on from there.

 

I think we'll find out exactly how Hades feels about Emma once they come face to face. Right now, her only concern is to find Hook. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

(he seemed annoyingly unconcerned about Emma, which means we're going with the 'Regina is the Saviour Now' thing that pissed me off in the past)

 

Hades seems unconcerned with Emma because there's only one person she is responsible for putting in the UW, and that's Cruella. Meanwhile, Regina killed, or ordered the deaths of hundreds of people. She decimated entire villages, so when he says that he hates losing souls, and that every time the clock ticks it means someone has moved on, it really has nothing to do with Regina being the Savior, and everything to do with Regina being a mass murderer who is making up for the horrible things she has done.

This is actually a spot where I don't mind Regina being the Savior. Emma is preoccupied saving Hook. Regina is responsible for the misery of many denizens of Underbrooke. If she wants to atone for her past or do good things for people she has wronged, then I say let her. At least she's participating and actively doing something. It's not like 3B where she did nothing then pulled white magic out of her butt at the last second. Emma's got her own piece of the pie to deal with, and it's not like she doesn't need a break from giving everyone happy endings right now. It's more Regina's responsibility than Emma's in this case.

Edited March 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Emma's got her own piece of the pie to deal with, and it's not like she doesn't need a break from giving everyone happy endings right now. It's more Regina's responsibility than Emma's in this case.

 

Right? Operation Dumbass was embarrassing to watch because Emma was helping Regina do things that should have been Regina's job to do in the first place. I say let Regina deal with her Underworld victims while Emma gets to be "selfish" for once and only focuses on her task.

[YaddaYadda]

This is actually a spot where I don't mind Regina being the Savior. Emma is preoccupied saving Hook. Regina is responsible for the misery of many denizens of Underbrooke.

 

How is she the Savior if she's fixing her past mistakes and making amends? 

 

My friend compared Regina's arc in 5B to what Hook did in 4x15 when he returned Ursula's voice. Ursula was Hook's victim because he was pissed at her father. He stole her voice not because he had a problem with her, but because he had a problem with her father.

 

Hook's  action of returning Ursula's voice was him making up for what he did to her way back when. It didn't make him a Savior, it just made less of an asshole.

Edited March 11, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

How is she the Savior if she's fixing her past mistakes and making amends?

She's taking on a greater initiative than what Hook did with Ursula. She's going to help Underbrooke's citizens, regardless of whether or not she killed them. It's more than righting a mistake. It's essentially Emma's role in S1, which is why it's a Savior role. The fact she's part of many of the unfinished business is just an extra advantage.

Edited March 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[PixiePaws1]

She's taking on a greater initiative than what Hook did with Ursula. She's going to help Underbrooke's citizens, regardless of whether or not she killed them. It's more than righting a mistake. It's essentially Emma's role in S1, which is why it's a Savior role. The fact she's part of many of the unfinished business is just an extra advantage.

no matter how i Iook at it....if you murder with impunity then getting a clue and helping your victims to move on ...can't see that a Savior. ..Emma never murdered anyone in S1....maybe i am a bit short sighted...?

[YaddaYadda]

She's taking on a greater initiative than what Hook did with Ursula. She's going to help Underbrooke's citizens, regardless of whether or not she killed them. It's more than righting a mistake. It's essentially Emma's role in S1, which is why it's a Savior role. The fact she's part of many of the unfinished business is just an extra advantage.

 

No, she isn't. Emma was tasked to clean up someone else's messes. She was tasked to bring back the happy endings someone else took. 

 

Regina is essentially fixing her own mess. She's giving back the happy endings that she took away. It doesn't make her a Savior, it makes her someone who is cleaning up what she did.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Regina is essentially fixing her own mess.

 

.if you murder with impunity then getting a clue and helping your victims to move on

Well, that's assuming Regina has murdered every single person in the Underworld (including Hook) and that is why they're there. Operation Firebird is about more than just her victims.

 

But yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

Edited March 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Well, that's assuming Regina has murdered every single person in the Underworld (including Hook) and that is why they're there. Operation Firebird is about more than just her victims.

 

Moving this to the speculation thread.

[Mathius]

Adam and Eddy confirmed that Regina isn't the savior of Underbrooke, the whole group is the saviors (except for Rumple, obviously). That's what that scene and forming of Operation Firebird was supposed to mean.

[AudienceofOne]

I may not have been clear but what I was referring to was the way in which Regina's decision was treated within the text.
 
We had: Hades wanting specifically Regina out of the Underworld because it disrupted the perfect, fake world he ruled; Regina deciding to stay to help everyone in the Underworld find their happy ending (sorry, resolution to their unfinished business); the decision to start Operation Firebird after Regina's decision to stay; and the clock moment being given to Regina.

 

This exactly mirrors Emma's first episode as the Saviour and I doubt that's a coincidence.

Edited March 13, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[PixiePaws1]

I think helpng some of the 'not villains'..sort of 'deserving soul of the week' could work if it worked very very loosely like a 'treasure hunt ' in that with each one they help gets them a piece of the puzzle either info or an object required to get Killian free and everyone safely back.I could only deal with that format for a few eps but it would at least seem like they had some direction and made tangible progress towards the end goal.

[HoodlumSheep]

Finally watched the episode!

-overall it was okayish. It didn't scream "100th" to me though.

-those Regina/Henry I scenes did nothing for me, though. They just sorta happened. Lol @ Henry I pulling a Mufasa though.

-I didn't think the Neal/Emma scene was as bad as some people were making it. Emma literally told him her plan to share a heart with Hook.

-I'm actually with Rumple on wanting to get the mission done. I think I would have peaced-out with him at the end. I feel like this show has turned me so cold-hearted.

-loved seeing Pan again!

-hades looks like fun. The blue hair makes me giggle. Turning Cora into a miller's daughter again was a good punishment.

-I don't know how I feel about the Underworld yet. It seems like a hodge-podge of things. Most people are wearing modern clothes (except Henry I for some reason?), all the dead people seem up to date (James knew about Snow, Cora knew about Regina's "thief"). It's kind of weird.

-also, how do Cora and Pan expect to escape? Aren't they just souls? If they escaped the underworld, wouldn't they just evaporate or something???

-this was a slower episode; not too memorable.

Edited March 11, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Camera One]

I was watching a clip of Mulan and realized that the "cricket down the shirt" was giving Snow the role of the Matchmaker from "Mulan", who also had to experience that ordeal.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I was watching a clip of Mulan and realized that the "cricket down the shirt" was giving Snow the role of the Matchmaker from "Mulan", who also had to experience that ordeal.

Except the matchmaker didn't look like she was having a heart attack...

[Camera One]

LOL, so true.  I was just joking though.  I don't think having a cricket flittering around in there would make anyone look like they were about to have a heart attack.  They might as well have said Snow ate that blueberry pie and it was really bad.  Speaking of which, I wish I saw the run-up to that scene.  "Oh, Evil Queen is coming!  Let me take out a pie to placate her!"

Edited March 13, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

You know, that scene of Regina sampling that blueberry pie had homoerotic overtones (meant or not). 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

You know, that scene of Regina sampling that blueberry pie had homoerotic overtones (meant or not).

I give props to that peasant girl. If Regina hated the pie, she probably would have killed her. I can imagine a secret love affair between those two more than I can with Swan Queen...

Edited March 13, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

You know, that scene of Regina sampling that blueberry pie had homoerotic overtones (meant or not). 

 

In what way?  Seriously, I didn't see anything even remotely homoerotic about that scene.

[Shanna Marie]

All I could think during the pie scene was, "Man, she's going to be a bitch about someone making her a pie? She really was evil, and I'm not sure there's redemption for that." If she'd ripped that woman's heart out because she didn't like the pie, Regina would have been even more dead to me than she already is. I mean, there's evil, and then there's downright nasty.

[KAOS Agent]

It usually takes a few episodes to pick out a few theme words to count for the season, but this episode pretty clearly laid out "unfinished business" as the watchword for 5B. This week it was used six times, so there's a baseline for you if you want to make it a drinking game.

 

On a positive note, there was zero mention of darkness, happy endings, snuffing and villains, only one mention of hero and a couple of uses of Dark One, so it seems that many of our previously tallied words may be used more sparingly this season. 

[YaddaYadda]

KAOS Agent; I think you might wanna watch for the word "hope".

[jhlipton]

You know, that scene of Regina sampling that blueberry pie had homoerotic overtones (meant or not). 

 

I thought it was more along the lines of Little Jack Horner myself.

[Camera One]

Too bad four and twenty blackbirds didn't fly out of it to try to peck Regina to death.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Too bad four and twenty blackbirds didn't fly out of it to try to peck Regina to death.

That would be too *Grimm* for A&E's tastes.

Edited March 13, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

I thought it was more along the lines of Little Jack Horner myself.

 

Exactly.  In fact, I expected Regina to pull out a plum and say "What a good Queen am I!"

[KingOfHearts]

You know, if A&E were good writers, Percival would have been setup as Regina's ghost from the past. Making amends with Henry Sr. was pretty unnecessary since he didn't judge her for killing him anyway. I'm not sure how Regina's problems with Cora constitute as Henry Sr.'s "unfinished business". He really did nothing to make himself more adequate for heaven. Percival, on the other hand, had much more to work with. I dislike how A&E introduce new characters with interesting potential only to never use them.

[Curio]

You know, if A&E were good writers, Percival would have been setup as Regina's ghost from the past. Making amends with Henry Sr. was pretty unnecessary since he didn't judge her for killing him anyway.

 

It's the REC again. Of course the victim Regina has to help move on to the light is someone who loves her and already forgave her for killing him. I kept waiting for the random villager Regina murdered to chew her out in the Underworld, but he was quickly disposed of too, much like Percival. I'll actually be impressed if Regina helps some victims she killed who despise her in the Underworld and give her a hard time move on to a better place.

[Camera One]

I guess I watched this episode from the perspective of Henry Sr. rather than Regina, and for me, it was satisfying in that regard when he finally stood up to Cora and was willing to make a real stand for the first time in his life.  I appreciated that a guest character like him finally got some closure and development.  It was much more impactful than the crap they gave August in 4B, and I look to this episode as an example of how they could bring someone back and give them something meaningful.

 

Having said that, I agree that having Percival as Regina's ghost from the past would be a good thing and absolutely necessary for Regina's redemption.  Regina still hasn't made amends to the "ordinary" folk she terrorized (she hasn't made amends to Snow or Emma either, but I digress..).  I actually wanted to see more of Percival (another name-drop!), but alas... nope.  Another possibility would be Owen and his father.  They deserve a huge apology.  Not to mention that groom she murdered because she was in a bad mood.  All the children who died in the Witch's house would be nice too.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Camera One