S05.E12: Souls Of The Departed

[Leia1979]

I think secretly Regina didn't really want Snow dead. That's the only thing that makes sense of her half-assed attempts to kill her.

 

It finally all makes sense: Regina is Wile E. Coyote and Snow White is the roadrunner. 

 

I actually didn't realize this was the 100th episode (I knew it was this half-season, but I wasn't sure when). I guess that explains the cavalcade of previous villains, but I'm a little disappointed that we started an arc I at least hope is about Emma and Hook with an almost entirely Regina episode. Henry Sr. was my favorite part of it. 

 

Also, Henry Sr. was in the same outfit he always wears, but James, who has never lived in Storybrooke (right?), had a modern-day outfit. I don't understand that logic or lack thereof.

[kili]

Also, Henry Sr. was in the same outfit he always wears, but James, who has never lived in Storybrooke (right?), had a modern-day outfit. I don't understand that logic or lack thereof.

I have a theory that Hades kind of rewards the bad people. Cora is the mayor, Pan runs a shop and the Blind Witch runs Grannies. James got modern clothes because he is a villain while Henry Sr. gets his old clothes because he was mostly a good guy.

 

It seems like the Unfinished Business requires internal closure, not external. Neal never got closure with his son, but he's happy so he's moved on. Henry Sr. doesn't seem too concerned about saying sorry to Jefferson who was trapped in Wonderland so he could escape or for his part in the death of Snow's dad. He just needs to see his daughter happy and then he can move on.  Henry Sr. was a terrible dad for not protecting Regina, but I don't know if he had much of a choice. If he'd gone against Cora, he just would have wound up dead. Of course, he could have taken 5 minutes to teach his daughter how to dance...I'm sure that Cora would not have objected to that. 

 

I loved that Cora ended up a Miller's Daughter again. While I do think she was trying to help her daughter, she's done enough bad to deserve it - including sending Regina's murder victim to hell.  Was Hades hinting that Cora made a deal with the devil regarding Zelena? 

 

Pan was deliciously evil again. Robbie Kay can get such a malicious glint in his eye. 

 

The flashback with Belle seemed really random and weirdly placed. Okay, Belle knows where he went, but for all we know, Snowflake was eaten by a dingo. We can assume Belle is safe and clueless without them showing us. 

 

Was that a rocket that Cora walked by right before she took the elevator down to see Hades?

The rocket is what creates all the fog. You could see them in Underbrooke and the cemetery too.  They served a practical purpose during filming, but I'm not sure what their story actually is.. 

[Camera One]

Overall, I did like this one.  

 

The art direction with the orange sky and the dilapidated Storybrooke created a really nice atmosphere.  It drew me into the story.

 

Even though much of the Evil Queen flashback was a retread, there were two things that made this one better than the usual run-of-the-mill episode.  First of all, they actually used a guest returning character (Henry I) in a way which deepened his character and resolved a gaping hole that had been left unpatched since Season 1.  I liked seeing him recognize that he never stood up to Cora, and having him finally act accordingly was a huge step for him and it made the story moving for me.  He pretty much saved the plotline of this episode.  It was actually emotionally rewarding to see him ascend into the light and meeting Henry Jr.  Secondly, they did what they should have done in "Mother", which was to fill in the Season 1 question of how Regina's father ended up in Wonderland.  Took them long enough...

 

There wasn't much for the other characters to do, but it was nice to see a bit more interaction between Emma and her parents, after half a season of nothing.  

 

Peter Pan was really unmenacing in that suit.  He looked like he was 12.  Which was the intention, I guess.

 

I said this in the spoiler thread, but it felt like A&E were talking to us when they had Rumple tell Emma, "Your questions are pointless".  Regina's hypothesis that whoever created the Dark Curse modelled it after the Underworld was interesting to say the least.  It's disappointing that people like Cora, Peter Pan and James have been given positions of importance in the town, and they don't seem to be suffering at all.  It was nice to see Cora punished at the end, though.

 

It was weird how they decided to split up and let Henry wander around by himself.  Also weird for Charming and Snow to split up.  Why was the Blind Witch so nice?  I didn't like how long they had Snow kissing James and not even realizing it, and saying nothing afterward to David.

 

I guess the water from Dunbroch did come back.  How much liquid could one vial hold?  Sheesh... it's like the magic dust of Camelot all over again.  And why would Rumple need more from Peter Pan?

 

That was a really poor use of the actor who played Neal, to have him tell Emma not to go to the Underworld.  That was about as stupid as having Merlin warn Emma in 5A to leave Excalibur alone.  They were clearly subscribing to the "Lost" adage of "Max out the cryptic warnings."   I agree with the above that it would have been more emotionally resonant to give him a final scene with Henry along with Emma.  There is no way Neal doesn't  have unfinished business, but I guess having 2 people ascend to Heaven wouldn't have had as much impact since this episode was about Regina.  They could have had Neal give them the instructions for getting the Dunbroch water in a vision.

 

The main thing that did bug me this episode were two lines.  One was Rumple telling Emma that "Cruella's here because of YOU", as if what Emma did was reprehensible.  Shut up, imp.  I like their mission of trying to help everyone with their unfinished business, but Regina saying "Everyone here can be saved... we're all their unfinished business" didn't fit with her taking responsibility.  She might be the cause of many of the deaths, but she was making it seem like everyone else, like Snow, Charming, etc. were also responsible.  Makes me think that A&E is going to throw in more retcons for Snowing, who probably ruined as many lives as Regina and Rumple.  I also didn't like Regina getting a one-candle birthday cake.

 

Anyway, I'm glad this episode was better than most, and I really hope that continues... not holding my breath but it's nice to know they can actually deliver if they really want to.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Camera One

[mjgchick]

I'm kind of angry that Hooks the only villain going through actual torture unlike the other villains. Maybe it's because he refuses to go back to being Captain Hook and Hades is only using him as leverage for Emma or something. I can't remember if we ever had that much blood on the show. Did Hook bled this much after his car accident?

Edited March 7, 2016 by mjgchick

[kitticup]

You know I never realized it, but I really dislike Rumple a lot. I used to enjoy him even though he was a rat bastard, but now I want to see him suffer. I didn't realize that Swan Song was on before the episode. I ended up watching that last 5 minutes. Rumple is such a smug bastard. It is so wrong that he is the dark one again. There has to be a price for all that evil in him. If I were a writer, I would make it so he had to drain the life force of the one he loves to keep from being overwhelmed by the darkness.

The episode itself was enjoyable. I liked Regina and really liked her father. It was nice to see him trying to pull his daughter away from the wrong path. He loves her unconditionally but is not blind to her acts. Regina did show she had changed, but it is not going to be enough for all those who suffered because of her. it bothers me that Cora still had her magic in UnderBrooke. When/how do the victims get their justice?

It is always nice to see Cora and Pan. I like how Pan and Rumple were both dressed in dark suits. I liked that Cora is back to being the Millers daughter.

I don't understand why Hook is being punished while Pan, Cora, and others are fine in UnderBrooke.

ETA: the Neal scene was odd to me. It was definitely played to make swamp fire fans happy.

Edited March 7, 2016 by kitticup

[KAOS Agent]

I recorded this episode and then the machine ate it which seemed like a sign, but I ignored it. I sort of liked the episode and if it had been episode 2 of the Underworld arc and not the premiere 100th super epic celebration of the show episode, I would have enjoyed it a lot more. I'm still mystified how they can call it a celebration of the show when well over half of it was Regina and her guest star parents.

 

Points of whatever:

 

- Henry said Cora was responsible for Daniel's death. Henry is awesome.

 

- Rumpel was absolutely correct that getting sidetracked on some "asinine" mission to save a bunch of other people when they are specifically there to save Hook, who is suffering mightily while everyone else seemed fine, is a stupid idea.

 

- How egotistical are these people that they assume everyone there is stuck there because of unfinished business with them? As far as I could tell, there were four people out of everyone we saw on the street and at the diner that have issues with our intrepid heroes. No one else even reacted to their arrival.

 

- How did James know who Snow White was? How did he know or even care about David? I know, writers, more pointless questions.

 

- As long as they're fixing people's souls or whatever, please for the love of God, let Geppetto's parents out of those puppets and move on. Those poor puppets were in the Underworld and I am not amused.

 

- Whose idea was it to make it seem like Neal & Emma were going to make out? That scene was all kinds of awful and unnecessary.

 

- Snowing v Regina is done. We all know what's going to happen. Nothing changes except to raise Regina's body count. Stop it.

[Camera One]

Why did the Black Knight's heart get squished into white crystals?  Yes, pointless question.

 

How did Henry Sr. get Snow White's heart back?  I don't buy it.  Why didn't Cora immediately go and rip Snow's heart out again?  It's not exactly difficult with her seemingly unlimited power.  Snow doesn't stand a chance, even with the arrows.

 

Why did Henry Sr. FINALLY decide to go summon Cora?  The vendetta against Snow has been ruining Regina's happiness for multiple birthdays.  And summoning Cora because Regina would listen to her?  How stupid is he?  Don't answer that.

 

 

 

As far as I could tell, there were four people out of everyone we saw on the street and at the diner that have issues with our intrepid heroes. No one else even reacted to their arrival.

 

They were probably blinded by the sun after taking off those Dark One hoodies and couldn't see straight.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Camera One

[CatWarmer]

I finally realized that Hades reminded me of The Mayor from Buffy - not so much looks as demeanor.

 

And I really expected someone to throw The One Ring into the fires of Mt Doom - I swear it was the same point over the lava where Frodo and Gollum fought it  out at the end of the trilogy.

Edited March 7, 2016 by CatWarmer

[justcris]

I thought this was an ok episode. Wouldn't have guessed it was the 100th, I don't think making it a Regina-centric was the best course of action.

I'll keep watching, but I won't get my hopes up.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For people who had a boat to catch in half an hour, there sure was a lot of standing around. Let's pose all six people overlooking the cemetery! Then let's pose them all again in front of Hook's grave before actually pouring the magical water to summon him. I was surprised that it worked. I was expecting Pan to give Gold something that would result in a giant monster trying to eat them or something.

 

Regina's birthday party dress was gorgeous! And I say that as someone who usually loathes lace.

 

Although I hope that they don't spend all of 5B in the underworld, I will concede that it gave the writers a way to bring some previous characters (although, let's be honest, they could have kept bringing them back with the amount of flashbacks we usually get on this show).

 

They still haven't found Hook yet, but they are already planning to play therapist to every single person in the underworld so they can be at peace and take the stairway to heaven like Regina's father? Sorry, I didn't realize that any of these people were therapists.

 

So they are currently in the underworld which is full of dead people with unfinished business and the underworld is ruled by Richard Fish (with the Heat Miser's hair style and the Snow Miser's hair color). Cora said people leave by either going to a better place (presumably heaven) or a worse place (which she demonstrated by pushing some guy into the fiery pits of Mordor). So there's a place WORSE than hell? And wouldn't people with unfinished business be in purgatory instead of hell? Who is in charge of the place that's worse if Hades is already in StoryHell?

 

And the people in the underworld is everyone who died with unfinished business? Not just people who died in the Enchanted Forest and Storybrooke?

 

I think secretly Regina didn't really want Snow dead. That's the only thing that makes sense of her half-assed attempts to kill her.

Regina squeezed the heart Cora presented to her until the guard keeled over and died so I think she did want revenge, but it was ridiculous that in the earlier scene when Regina was threatening the villagers and then Snow showed up, she just disappeared in a puff of purple smoke. The person you want to kill is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU so you leave?

 

The big red "REVELATION" sign from the roller coaster right over the hood of Emma's car as she was talking to Neal was a bit too anvilicious for my taste.

Edited March 7, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I wanted James Woods. That said, perhaps what the show has in mind for Hades wasn't what JW would have wanted to portray. 

[BoPeeps]

Not much I liked about this episode. Sadly underwhelming. Sadly bleak. Much hoopla about the 100th episode but it was kind of a bore for a grand opening. Too much jammed in for the sake of just bringing back characters all over the place.

They give the audience a few small moments of interesting plot contemplation and the rest is empty filler. They've mixed up their core concepts so much that nothing makes for cohesive presentation. Is this fractured fairy tales or religious tinged dogma? Shrug. I don't think they know. So much retread. And the Disney pandering/ marketing is really abusing the core characters while they become stage pieces tip toeing around the latest Disney movie tie-in.

The whole Hades deal is uninteresting to me, so that is a personal bias I have for the whole second half of the season.

I know they have kind of run out of stories to explore being so attached to Disney and frankly hampered by it. They have really lost something of the uniqueness they started out portraying. Still too many characters, too many main characters used in fairly senseless ways, too many gaping plot holes the size of Manhattan and no way to intelligently tie them together. It's a problem all shows eventually face. They draw out some parts to tedium while racing through others without any sense.

Episode specific:

The filter is interesting. (For awhile!) The music and costumes always top notch. Again, little moments of thoughtful elements like the clicking of the shattered tower clock.

I have always liked Regina and her struggles but this flashback with Snow was just more "do over in a cool dress" with Parilla taking her lip curling delivery a tad too far.

The Neal scene was pure tokenism and he is still a total, dense dullard. Blah blah blah. He is so pointless.

Emma seemed...off. Maybe because they opened with a boring scene that totally took her back to a vulnerable time after she had declared such a strong motivation for going to get the man she loved. Wishy washy and undermining all that growth.

I like Rumple as an asshole. always have, always will. But what, really is the point of Emma's blackmail when Belle repeatedly backslides and forgives him every time he reverts to his true asshole self? Not a strong plot point at all.

As good as it was to see Pan, it fell kind of short now that Rumple is the big bad dark one of all dark ones. There was very little tension between them. Been there, done that I guess. Dark Ones don't seem to gel sharing a universe with Hades in my mind.

I like Henry but really, his presence there is just weird, even though he is the common denominator for much of the show. Character development is ignored for hinky plot moves.

Cora...I love Barbara Hershey so it was good to see her, but still, no advancement in character development especially after her brilliantly played "You would have been enough" scene when she first...evaporated.

I fucking hate what they have done to Hook. Colin's acting is always a pleasure but they have really screwed around with him in an unfair way. Just knock it off with the brutalizing. It's lopsided and fucking aggravating.

I already dislike Hades. Immensely. And please...the hair is STUPID.

They still write this show like they are in an interminable loop of "reverse and go again". They have about three different types of storytelling that are constantly undermining each other. It makes for a disjointed mess.

[kili]

Henry Sr. didn't want Regina to kill Snow, but he was fine sending a random Black Knight to his death. How did he get that Knight's heart? Did Henry Sr. just grab a random heart out of Regina's vault? How many of the Black Knight's were slaves like Graham and this guy? We never see their faces, but now I'm feeling sorry for all of them that have died.

 

The big red "REVELATION" sign from the roller coaster right over the hood of Emma's car as she was talking to Neal was a bit too anvilicious for my taste.

That's really the name of the ride, but it was production's choice to park in front of it. There are also rides called the Hellevator and Hell's Gate they could have hit us over the head with. Or the Pirate. 

[Curio]

Henry Sr. didn't want Regina to kill Snow, but he was fine sending a random Black Knight to his death.

 

This is why I couldn't get into the episode. I just don't care at all about the petty Mills family drama at this point. Henry Sr. kept going on about how Regina would cross the moral event horizon if she killed Snow, but killing dozens of other innocent people is totally redeemable...including the three people she killed in this episode's flashback. (Black Tooth, innocent jester, and innocent Black Knight. To put that into perspective, that's the same number of rings on Killian's one hand.) I don't understand the moral logic here. Why is it that crushing Snow White's one heart is enough to tip Regina into being unredeemable, but it's completely fine for her to murder everyone else without even blinking at the consequences?

[Rumsy4]

The Mills family doesn't care about the peasants. Not that Snow cared much either. Apparently, nobody cares about the common man.

[YaddaYadda]

Black Tooth, another person Regina killed that she doesn't remember.

 

ETA - Jiminy in Snow's cleavage was not cute at all. I mean why even go there? I will never watch the Archie/Snow scenes the same way again knowing what I know now. 

Edited March 7, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Sarcastica]

I still can't get over Jiminy Cricket just chilling down Snow's shirt. Pervert grasshopper....

[Rumsy4]

Whose brilliant idea of a "joke" was that??

[Curio]

Whose brilliant idea of a "joke" was that??

 

The same people who thought Regina and Graham's relationship was fun and flirty.

[Clawdette]

Just seeing Graham's name mentioned in this thread makes me S.I.G.H.  My kingdom for a huntsman.

[Mari]

The same writing team that hasn't seemed to understand:

• why Regina/Graham was horrifying
• why there were serious issues with Robin/Regina and their relationship beginnings
• why there were serious consent issues with Robin/Zelena
• and Emma/Neal
• and Rumple/Belle
• and David/Katherine
• why Henry being so interested in his mothers' sex lives is a little . . . odd
• and . . .
• and . . .
• and .  . .

[Delphi]

I actually liked this. Hooray. It was a bit odd but not bad. I enjoyed the flashbacks. I enjoyed Henry Sr. being the most logical person on this show ever.

I'm not sure if it was a great episode of television or if I just enjoyed the wrapping up of various storylines from the past and the inclusion of older characters. Can we keep the Blind Witch?

[scenicbyway]

By far the best part of the episode for me was Henry and Henry Sr. meeting and saying goodbye.  I don't really understand why Henry Sr. was stuck in the Underworld, he seemed to think it was because he owed something to Regina, but the flames released him when she apologized, which would lead me to think he was there because of Regina not because of something he did.  I thought the bridge appearing was very Indiana Jones...

 

Overall, I pretty much hated the episode.  The opening with Neal and Emma and her saying that she'd go to the Underworld for him as well if she'd known it was possible.  She even explained her heart plan to him, which makes me think she'd split her heart with him too.  REALLY?!  There were so many ways they could've brought back MRJ if they insisted, and having Emma make the same promise to him that she'd just made about Hook, really cheapened everything.  I get that they like the actor, they wanted to bring him back for the 100th, (which surprisingly wasn't really mentioned, why wasn't their a pre-special with details from the 100th party?), but having Neal, who impregnated a teenage Emma and sold her to the cops for his crimes, HOW DID HE NOT HAVE UNFINISHED BUSINESS?

 

Once Upon a Time is supposed to be a fairy tale, I didn't start watching this show to see the main characters rattle around hell for half a season, while my favorite 2 characters (Emma and Hook) are tortured and sad.  How is that entertaining?

 

Snow and Charming's conflict seems to be that James will be lurking waiting to wreak havoc while twisting his invisible mustache.

 

Bringing Pan and Cora back, whose stories were finished, 2 seasons ago, tells me that the writers don't have any new ideas.  Why do we need to revisit these characters that are DEAD?

 

The Underworld is incredibly depressing and I don't think I'm going to enjoy someone meeting their fiery death or bright light to heaven each week.  Are they really going to put us through that for the rest of the season?  I suppose at least Hades was watchable.

[Writing Wrongs]

Who is this Black Tooth?

[pezgirl7]

^ I was wondering the same thing.

 

This episode was very blah for me. I liked seeing some of the past villains in the underworld, that was about it. I didn't mind Neal's scene too much, especially when he smiled at the end and said something about how he figured that Emma wouldn't listen to him. But I thought it was odd how Emma was holding his face and looking at his lips, like she wanted to kiss him. huh

[Curio]

By far the best part of the episode for me was Henry and Henry Sr. meeting and saying goodbye.

 

I wish I could have enjoyed that scene more, but I couldn't contain my eyeroll at Henry Sr. telling Henry Jr. that it's his job to look after his mom and to "take good care of her." Let's just take that in for a second...it's a 13-year-old boy's job to take care of his adult mom. 

And I'm normally not on the SHUT UP, NEAL train, but even I was saying that when he said he always loved Emma and always will. Oh really, Neal? Did you still love Emma when she was released from jail for your crime and was waiting for you in Tallahassee, but you never bothered to check up on her? Did you still love Emma when you knew the curse was broken and actively chose to not seek her out? Did you still love Emma when you were banging Tamara in Storybrooke? I really hope Emma wasn't insinuating that she'd attempt to share a heart with Neal because she can do (and currently does) so much better than him.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Much like my denied wish for a running gag involving various Storybrooke residents throwing tacos at Dopey-tree, I now want Hades to receive a series of beauty treatments before he appears before the Nevengers. We've already seen the pedicure, so let's get the manicure, facial, haircut, shave, the full enchilada. He needs to look and feel his best before meeting his guests. I know it probably won't happen onscreen, but it will in my head.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Rosiejuliemom

[YaddaYadda]

She even explained her heart plan to him, which makes me think she'd split her heart with him too.  REALLY?!

 

See, this isn't how I saw that at all. 

 

For me it was more of a moment of, here's the plan! I'm telling you all about it!!! I'm going to the UW to get Hook, I'm gonna split my heart, do you think Hades knows now what I'm planning to do?

 

That whole scene was bizarre.

[kili]

Who is this Black Tooth?

The villager that Regina kills near the beginning (snaps his neck when Snow shows up, but she had already promised to kill him) He is also the one to pass on the message in the Underworld to Regina that Cora wanted to see her.  Cora sends him to a fiery demise to demonstrate what is in store for Henry Sr. if Regina doesn't do what she wants. 

[RadioGirl27]

I was going to skip this but I finally caved and watched it, and now I wish I had stick to my initial plan. As a filler episode in the middle of the season this would have been just boring, but as the 100th episode and season premiere, it was terrible. The flashback was pointless and the acting so, so bad (except the actor playing Regina's father, he was good. But Lana, ugh). And the less said about Neal, the better. And I hate that Operation Firebird is not about saving Hook, but about giving Regina's victims the happy endings she took from them in the first place. I'm with Rumple here.

 

Really, the only things I've liked are Regina's red dress in the flashback, Peter Pan and Emma's desperation in the graveyard. The rest goes from meh to godawful. 

[Curio]

But I thought it was odd how Emma was holding his face and looking at his lips, like she wanted to kiss him.

 

If it weren't for this moment, I would have been okay with the whole Neal/Emma interaction. But that face grab and lusty eye stare just took their entire conversation into a whole new level of intimacy, and I hate to say it, but it cheapens Emma's Underworld mission now. Yes, we know that Emma loves Hook, but apparently Neal was just as good an option back in the day, and the only reason Emma didn't go for him in Season 3 is because she didn't know about the Underworld or wasn't a Dark One and couldn't tether him to a sword. The show keeps making it seem like if Neal hadn't died, Emma and him would have been living as True Loves as Henry's parents in Storybrooke, when that's not at all what we were shown on screen. I get that people tend to think fondly of family members who pass away sometimes, but Neal seems to give Regina a run for her money in the whole "Exception Clause" area.

 

I really want to know if that almost-kiss was in the script or if it was a directing or acting choice, because I want to know who to direct my frustration at.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Much like my denied wish for a running gag involving various Storybrooke residents throwing tacos at Dopey-tree, I now want Hades to receive a series of beauty treatments before he appears before the Nevengers. We've already seen the pedicure, so let's get the manicure, facial, haircut, shave the full enchilada. He needs to look and feel his best before meeting his guests. I know it probably won't happen onscreen, but it will in my head.

And now it will happen in my head too!

[Dirtybubble]

I like seeing the Storybrook characters in Hell or is it purgatory?  I enjoy the new creepy vibe but the special efx are just as bad as before; I couldn't get into the gateway to heaven scene because it just looked some DAMN CGI! From the previews it looks like they are going to continue with a Greek Mythology theme.  YASS!  LOVE greek mythology but I wish they would do the true Iliad mythology and not the stupid Disney version.

[coops]

I kind of liked this episode but I guess that's because I took Rumple's advice at the start and didn't ask questions because I knew it would be 'pointless.' What would be really interesting is seeing how characters like Cora, Pan, Cruella etc all react to each other seeing as they are all living in the underworld together in some twisted community... whether or not we will see any of this, I doubt very much.

I loved Regina's scenes with her father, I can now buy her redemption arc much more after seeing her feel sorry for something terrible she did.

Were we supposed to feel sorry for Cora the end? I'm not sure how I feel about her at the moment because I'm not sure which Cora she is- with her heart or without?

[MaiLuna]

 But I thought it was odd how Emma was holding his face and looking at his lips, like she wanted to kiss him. huh

 

 

 

If it weren't for this moment, I would have been okay with the whole Neal/Emma interaction. But that face grab and lusty eye stare just took their entire conversation into a whole new level of intimacy, and I hate to say it, but it cheapens Emma's Underworld mission now. Yes, we know that Emma loves Hook, but apparently Neal was just as good an option back in the day, and the only reason Emma didn't go for him in Season 3 is because she didn't know about the Underworld or wasn't a Dark One and couldn't tether him to a sword. The show keeps making it seem like if Neal hadn't died, Emma and him would have been living as True Loves as Henry's parents in Storybrooke, when that's not at all what we were shown on screen. I get that people tend to think fondly of family members who pass away sometimes, but Neal seems to give Regina a run for her money in the whole "Exception Clause" area.

 

I really want to know if that almost-kiss was in the script or if it was a directing or acting choice, because I want to know who to direct my frustration at.

I'm just gonna pretend she was just taking in his whole face by looking up and down and holding his face to make sure he was really there. I have to or it ruins CS. Emma wasn't as devastated when Neal died or said "I'll always find you" to him after she knew how to get to the Underworld so I'm holding onto that. Or trying to. 

[FierceAfroChick]

I feel like the 100th episode of a television show should strive to be something memorable and iconic.  A little more of an ensemble cast piece.  That shit last night?  Was meh.  And then they added drivel on top of meh.  There was way too much Regina (and retread Regina/Snow) and too little of everyone else.  It might’ve been more interesting to have all the characters have spiritual encounters (while they're passed out) with significant people in their lives, some who are already in a better place, some who are not.  They could've appeared to the heroes to give them each separate warnings about the Underworld.  Regina/Henry Sr, Neal/Henry, Snow/One of Her Parents, David/Ruth, Emma/BatteredHook, Rumple/Pan.  The cliffhanger could've been their stunned reactions as they finally arrive in Underbrooke and the Hades reveal.  Then start the centrics and the parade of folks who haven’t moved on in the following episodes. 

 

I’m starting to believe these useless and redundant Regina flashbacks are just vanity eps to showcase Evil Queen costumes and cleavage.

 

Agree with those who said the Neal/Emma scenes sort of cheapened her desperation to find Hook.

Edited March 7, 2016 by FierceAfroChick

[Chaos Theory]

I am probably going to end up avoiding this board again because of the Regina hate when she is my favorite character and one of the main reason I watch this show. I thought the conversations with her father were brilliant.

Anyway i thought seeing Neal so early on was put there simply as exposition. He's in "a better place". Cora mentioned the Underworld being a holding area for souls with unfinished business and when they finished their business they when they to "a better place" or "a worse one". I think that is the point of Neal. He finished his business before he died and moved on to the better place. Regina's father was able to move on my seeing that her daughter had found happiness and moved past her quest for revenge. He felt guilt for not being stronger and standing up to Cora.

It will be an interesting story to see what characters have unfinished business with our regular cast and which move on to the better place and which move on to the worse one.

I am actually hoping to see Sherrif Graham/The Huntsman.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Writing Wrongs]

The villager that Regina kills near the beginning (snaps his neck when Snow shows up, but she had already promised to kill him) He is also the one to pass on the message in the Underworld to Regina that Cora wanted to see her.  Cora sends him to a fiery demise to demonstrate what is in store for Henry Sr. if Regina doesn't do what she wants. 

I know that, but why are people calling him Black Tooth? Did they say his name and I missed it?

Edited March 7, 2016 by Writing Wrongs

[Rumsy4]

If it weren't for this moment, I would have been okay with the whole Neal/Emma interaction. But that face grab and lusty eye stare just took their entire conversation into a whole new level of intimacy, and I hate to say it, but it cheapens Emma's Underworld mission now. Yes, we know that Emma loves Hook, but apparently Neal was just as good an option back in the day, and the only reason Emma didn't go for him in Season 3 is because she didn't know about the Underworld or wasn't a Dark One and couldn't tether him to a sword. The show keeps making it seem like if Neal hadn't died, Emma and him would have been living as True Loves as Henry's parents in Storybrooke, when that's not at all what we were shown on screen.

 

I feel the same way. Even when justifying her decision to tether Hook to Excalibur, Emma made it seem like he was just "one more person" she couldn't bear to lose. It makes it looks like Hook is just the last man standing. The main reason CS has been a slow burn was because of Emma's emotional scars and her proverbial "Walls", and how long it took Hook to prove to Emma that he wouldn't abandon her like everyone else. This makes it seem like Emma's Walls just disappeared, and it had nothing to do with Hook. It also denies the fact that Bagel was partly the reason for said Walls. I know this scene was mainly there for fanservice, but the placement of the scene at the start of the episode, combined with the context, made it cringeworthy. It was also extremely odd that Neal moved on without seeing his son or talking to him in a dream, instead of with Emma. He was desperate to see Henry before he died. What happened to that desperation? It does nothing to Neal's character that he seems to care only about seeing Emma in the afterlife, and is trying to convince her to abandon her quest. MRJ's acting also seemed a little off to me. Maybe it was hard for him to get back in the part after such a long time. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Once Upon A Time Returns To A Hell Of A Town
'Another place' is up and some fiery pits are down in the 100th episode, as our heroes explore Puratorybrooke, and characters from the past return.

[kili]

I know that, but why are people calling him Black Tooth? Did they say his name and I missed it?

 

His name was in the Press Release. Some people thought he might have more of a role since he got what looked like a name (unlike "Blueberry Pie Gal", "Black Knight" and "Jester").

[Curio]

I am probably going to end up avoiding this board again because of the Regina hate when she is my favorite character and one of the main reason I watch this show. I thought the [scenes] with her father were brilliant.

It's your call, but please consider staying. While I may not enjoy watching Regina all that much, I also like being able to read other opinions on these boards to even out the playing field and make me think of scenes in a different light sometimes. The more people like you stop posting, the more it turns into an echo chamber, and then the discussion quality goes down. (I was one of the very few people who liked Hook at TWoP during Season 2, so I get the frustration at being in the minority opinion. Stick it out and others might join you eventually.)

I think most of the opinions so far have been more critical of the repetitiveness of the Evil Queen flashback than Regina in the present day. I'm actually glad that Regina is finally doing what some of us suggested (a "My Name is Earl" kind of redemption) and is attempting to help out some of the people she killed in the past. It's about time—I just wish this plot happened during Season 4 when it would have been more appropriate and timely.

 

I am actually hoping to see Sherrif Graham/The Huntsman.

 

He's the one person I've been dying to see in the Underworld (pun intended?), but I doubt it's going to happen. Dornan is too busy for the show these days. Unfortunately, he's the one character who probably has the biggest unresolved issue with Regina, and I'm not holding my breath for any resolution to it.

[maryle]

So I watched it.

It was OK episode, but not enough for the 100 episode. Won't be a memorable episode

I hope the red lighting will be a one time thing to installed the mood.

I didn't really mean the Neal stuff overall but a little too much shippy at the end. For any reason!

I am tired of the feud between Snow and EQ. For me the flashback was mostly comical without real emotional impact. I have trouble buying the EQ here.

I loved all the little Charming and Emma moment! The real Snow seem to be back! I really hope she stay!

I liked the Rumple and Pan stuff and most of the present day character and plot.

I loved the Emma and Hook scene and I was surprised when it happened I though it will be at the end.

I will definitively love Hades, but hope the hair is also a one time thing.

The arc overall seem promising for me and I am looking for the next episode!

[pcta]

TY all. I bailed sometime ago but come here on and off to see if it's safe to go back in the water. Always enjoy your comments. Decided it's still not time to give the show another chance

[YaddaYadda]

I am actually hoping to see Sherrif Graham/The Huntsman.

 

Jamie Dornan is in Vancouver shooting that atrocity known as 50 Shades of I'm a terrible writer who thinks that a woman who says no to a man really means yes.

[Shanna Marie]

I can believe that Neal had no unfinished business. Sure, there was probably stuff he hadn't done that he wished he could have done, but that's true for anyone, especially someone who dies before his time. But he was in a good place when he died. He'd reconciled with his father, Emma, and Hook and he'd met his son. There wasn't some task he left unfinished or wrong that he hadn't set right.

 

I'm not sure how that's going to work for villains, though. Do all villains get sent to the Underworld for a second chance, and depending on how things go in the Underworld, they either move on to the good place or the bad place? Or do their evil schemes count as unfinished business? Is Cruella there because she still needs to find Isaac to get the restriction on killing removed?

 

If they're doing parallels to the Hercules movie, it seems kind of like Hook is in the Meg role as the person who died and who's lost in the Underworld and totally unaware that the loved one is coming, with Emma as Hercules, having to rescue him. I wonder if what we saw was at all real or was a projection to get a reaction out of Emma. But then what reaction would they be hoping for? If it was to make her give up and leave him there, then instead of showing him suffering and in need of rescue, you'd think she'd have been shown him being happy with Milah and his brother. Showing the torture just made her more determined to save him, so if it was fake, it doesn't seem like it would have been done by Hades. I thought for a second that he was missing an eye, but it seems like it was just swollen shut (and now I'm thinking of all the time poor Colin had to spend in makeup for maybe 30 seconds of footage).

[tennisgurl]

Not a bad episode at all (it was really pretty enjoyable, especially for a Regina episode, which I am not normally a big fan of), but this really did not feel like a 100th episode. The most it felt like a 100th episode was at the end when the clock started working again. That was a nice call back, I`ll admit. 

 

Poor Emma and Hook. It just sucks so hard to be them. Tortured and sad, and hardly around for the 100th episode. 

 

I like Hades, but the blue hair looks stupid as all get out. I know they are doing Disney Hercules, but I kind of wish they would have gone with the actual, mythological Hades. But then, he was not really a villain most of the time (especially compared to the other Greek gods), so that wouldn't have served the same purpose here. 

 

 

I am probably going to end up avoiding this board again because of the Regina hate when she is my favorite character and one of the main reason I watch this show. I thought the seasons with her father were brilliant.

I am really sorry to hear that, and while I certainly cant tell you what to do, I hope you stick around. I am not a Regina fan, but I get why people like her, and I like hearing differing opinions on these boards. Having people who view characters different can lead to good discussion, its not as much fun if everyone just sits around agreeing with each other. I feel your pain though. I have really liked characters everyone else hated on other boards, and it can really suck. I am really sorry if you feel unwelcome here, no one should feel that way. 

[iMonrey]

I for one never wanted to see Pan again, but why would he be in child form in purgatory/Hades? I realize they wanted to use Robbie Kay since he was the big bad of last season but Rumple's father transformed into his adult self right before Rumple killed him, and only the magic of Neverland made him a child again anyway. Seems to me he'd be an adult in Hades. 

 

I'm also a little puzzled about Cora being able to use magic in Hades. Seems like their powers shouldn't work down there. Otherwise why can't she just transport herself back into the real world again? 

 

I did enjoy all the cameos, even if Emma Caulfield's was kind of random. She only ever appeared in one episode and I can't even remember the circumstances. It's always nice to see Magic Mirror/Mr. Glass. Why can't he be a regular again? Isn't he still locked up in the hospital basement? Does anyone know about that? Regina's still not so squeaky clean.

 

One effect I really enjoyed was Cora stepping through the mirror, transitioning from a bright, overly saturated color to a more muted and darker shade. Nice way to contrast the two "worlds." 

[Curio]

Not a bad episode at all (it was really pretty enjoyable, especially for a Regina episode, which I am not normally a big fan of), but this really did not feel like a 100th episode.

 

I think that's my biggest gripe. If I thought of this episode as being another random episode in the middle of the season, I wouldn't be so bitter about it and would have considered it fairly high quality. But knowing that it was the milestone 100th and that the writers had been planning this huge episode for months negatively impacted my viewing of it.

It's always nice to see Magic Mirror/Mr. Glass. Why can't he be a regular again? Isn't he still locked up in the hospital basement? Does anyone know about that? Regina's still not so squeaky clean.

Sidney actually got released from his jail cell near the beginning of 4A because Regina wanted to use him to get rid of Marian. But then apparently he "betrayed" Regina because he dared to side with the Ice Queen, and how dare Regina's prisoner double cross her. Ingrid let him walk away after he helped her and we haven't seen him since.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

I know this scene was mainly there for fanservice, but the placement of the scene at the start of the episode, combined with the context, made it cringeworthy.

 

 

Whether it was fan service or not, I thought the scene with Neal did exactly what it was meant to do, suck the hope out of Emma. They aired 5x11 where Emma has nothing but hope when she's walking to the boat to find Hook, next scene, Neal and his you can't go, you should turn back, it's a hard place to get out of. 

 

It's like he was there to play in her head more than anything.

 

I was watching the episode with my friend last night, and she was like you just watch, he has just taken the confidence out of her. Next thing you know, Emma is standing in the diner telling everyone how this is hopeless after having been there 10 minutes.

Edited March 7, 2016 by YaddaYadda