Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Stinger97

S03.E07: Thirteen

Recommended Posts

Lexa tries to maintain peace within the clans; Clarke discovers an unusual and game-changing truth; flashbacks reveal a dark chapter of humanity's past.

Share this post


Link to post

I thought I was furious after the betrayal. I thought I was furious after the whole Pike/Bellamy situation but this? I'm so angry right now that I honestly have no words.

 

I love Clarke Griffin and for the most part, I love this show but tonight was too much. I'll let it sit on my DVR and watch the rest of this season over the summer.

Edited by kdm07
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Done. I'm done. Upset, but fine. I'm pretty convinced that Jason has lost sight of his vision and is just going for shock value and I have enough shows I hate watch, I don't need to do it anymore.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm torn on this episode. On one hand, I loved the insight into the origins of the Grounders. The commentary on faith and competing faiths being from the same origin (between Monty and Titus) was on point. It was great to see the flashbacks.

 

But then they pulled out the trope of killing a lesbian character after a moment of happiness (with a gunshot too, I had a flashback to Tara on BtVS). I really thought the show wouldn't give in to that. I guess it moved along the ALIE storyline, but the gloating from Bellarke fans will be intolerable now.

Edited by shantown
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

That was a great episode, dead lesbian cliche aside, but I think killing Lexa off is going to end up being a mistake beyond the cliche. Lexa and Polis politics were VASTLY more interesting than Arkadia this season (it took me like 45 minutes before I realized we hadn't seen the Arkers tonight), and I am not looking forward to the show being way more Arkadia dumbness now. And it feels like they just re-set the Grounders back to square one (or almost-one). There was way more potential to push new frontiers with Lexa alive. Plus she was easily Clarke's best screen partner. Losing that is going to hurt.

I do like how this episode tied the mythology together (that AI spider is creepy as FUCK and wow, ALIE's creator was kind of a nutjob, but I would have welcomed more flashbacks since this felt skimpy), and you can really see the storylines starting to converge now. Methinks that AI spider is going to be the key to taking down Jaha's ALIE 1.0. I wonder if it will end up in Clarke somehow by the end of the season? That would be creepy yet maybe oddly appropriate.

Titus, go jump off the tower already.

I've just gotten into this show, but not gonna lie, offing their most compelling dynamic makes me not want to continue. If next week sucks I might be out. Nothing in the show was nearly as compelling as the Clarke/Lexa dynamic.

Edited by stealinghome
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

Lexa's death was telegraphed from a mile away, but no less shocking or heartbreaking.

 

I think the writing for Arkadia has suffered this season because Clarke has not been involved in that storyline.

 

So. As a standalone that was a good episode. But overall? They've ruined Bellamy and killed Lexa. Not sure there's much left. I'm barely hanging on at this point.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
the gloating from Bellarke fans will be intolerable now.

 

That'll be the worst part of it all. And I don't even watch this show! This is the first episode I've seen! Well but you can't shy away from the stuff on tumblr so I've gotten enough backstory...I think.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

But then they pulled out the trope of killing a lesbian character after a moment of happiness (with a gunshot too, I had a flashback to Tara on BtVS). 

 

Yeah, I actually said "Your shirt!" out loud (while rolling my eyes so hard I pulled something). It's like the universal sign that a writing crew that was once good, has bought into their own mythos and now think they're so important and socially relevant that they can do anything and we'll watch.  

News flash writers--we watch because we enjoy the show, not because we want to be preached at. If you think you're giving us what we need (TM Joss Whedon), you'll soon find that if you don't give us what we want, we leave. 

 

 

it took me like 45 minutes before I realized we hadn't seen the Arkers tonight

 

And I was very happy about that. I'm not looking forward to next week's episode of stupid people doing stupid things and being surprised by the consequences. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Still processing, but I think I'm with Stealinghome on this one so far.  This show has a high death count anyway, so in that context, I'm ok with Lexa's death, despite the dead lesbian cliche.

 

But long term, it does feel as if they sacrificed some potentially very interesting stuff - Clarke and Murphy sharing their knowledge and starting to put stuff together about Lexa; Lexa having to deal with an AI robot, infuriated Grounder clans, unstable Arkadia leaders and her growing feelings for Clarke; and Titus and Lexa - just for shock effect, and that could be a problem.

 

On the less traumatic notes: Indra continues to be awesome. The episode's cold open was quite something. And after the A.I. reveal, I realized just how much Erica Cerra has been quietly modeling parts of her A.I. performance on the way Alycia Denhan-Carey has been portraying Lexa; nice.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

So, that was kind of a gut-punch.  I haven't quite decided if I mean that in a good way or a bad way.

 

On the one hand, I do see the narrative purpose of it.  Both personally and politically, Lexa was a huge stabilizing factor in the world they've built, and I don't think the writers want the situation to be that stable just yet.  The reveal that all that "Spirit of the Commander" stuff she always talked about was actually, scientifically true was pretty awesome (I'd suggest that Clarke should feel bad for all those times she rolled her eyes about it, but I think she's been through enough).  I'm also working on the assumption that the new commander being from the Ice Nation (not spoiled, just guessing) will add some interesting complications.  It probably helps that I think Lexa's death has been pretty well telegraphed for the past few episodes, so I would have actually been more surprised if she lived much longer.  I'm almost relieved that it wasn't a full-on Caesar situation, which is what I was predicting after 3.05.  

 

On the other hand, it really just kind of sucks.  Like, generally speaking, I'm not really a fan of the whole "accidentally caught in the crossfire" thing.  Plus, the "lesbian sex leads to death" thing still rankles, no matter how it's used.  Beyond that, there's the fact that I just really liked Lexa.  This season, she's honestly been one of the most likable people on the show.  I liked both her romantic and professional relationship with Clarke; I think the two of them play off of each other brilliantly.  I also just liked watching her be a leader.  She made for an interesting contrast with Pike in the way that she lead by reining in her people's passions instead of using them to her advantage (also, in that she was awesome while Pike was and will probably continue to be the worst).  I'm not entirely certain that even a great storyline resulting from her death could be as enjoyable to watch as any storyline where she'd gotten to live.

 

I think probably the saving grace, for me, is that you could tell how seriously the show took that moment.  Like, I've seen characters I love die on TV shows and I've seen characters I love be discarded.  The former is sad, the latter is insulting.  To me, in this episode, Lexa's death was definitely the former.

Edited by yellowfred
  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post

My DVR cut off the last 5 minutes. So they legit killed Lexa? Assholes.

 

They did give her one hell of a death scene though.  Complete with little spidery AI thing.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, the inevitable happened.  As much as I hoped it wouldn't happen, I suspected Alycia Debnam-Carey going to Fear the Walking Dead meant her time was limited. To be fair, it is possible they always attended for her to die anyway, but I still think a lot of it had to do with that.  Drat!  Even then, I still hoped that maybe they would just simply find a way to keep her off screen, like have Clarke go with Octavia to Arcadia, and we just don't visit Polis for a bit.  Alas, that was not to be.  Fuck!  And they even pulled the whole "Clarke and Lexa finally sleep together!" stunt, to really dig it in.  Shit!

 

That said, finding out she had the chip all along was a twist I didn't see coming, and now I have no idea where this is heading.  How does it "pick" who the next commander will be?  Who is it going to be?  So many questions....

 

At least Octavia knocked Indra back into shape.  With Lexa gone, I'm going to need Indra around to be a ultimate badass.

 

In attempt to try not to be too upset during Lexa's death, I kept thinking how it would have been hilarious if they had never untied Murphy from that pole, so Lexa gets her big dramatic scene, and they just cut to Murphy all "Guys!  Please untie me!  Guys?!"  Still, maybe pairing him and Clarke together could be interesting.

 

The 100 officially solidifies their "Film in Canada" cred, by getting Roger Cross in the flashbacks.  He's in everything!  Everything shot in Canada that is!  That stuff was interesting enough, and it was nice seeing the actress get to play things differently compared to the City of Light AI.

 

Well, drat.  I'm going to miss seeing Eliza Taylor and Alycia Debnam-Carey play off one another.  Normally, I would say I can't way to see what she does next, but I've seen Fear the Walking Dead, so.... I guess I hope Fear the Walking Dead quits sucking this season?  Yay?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Oh man. I feel bad for Alycia. Fear the Walking Dead is HORRIBLE, and I say that as Walking Dead fan. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

More than a little annoyed at that. Yet another dead TV lesbian.

 

If we get Bellarke shoved down our throats now I'll be even more pissed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think the whole killing a character after sex and happiness is solely linked to lesbian characters, that happens plenty of times to straight characters as well.

 

I think this was a contrived way of killing her, but we all knew something like it was coming due to the actress' lack of availability, and having Murphy and Clarke reunited almost makes up for it. Did not see the chip thing coming, that's a pretty interesting way to bring all the storylines together. I'm curious to see where this is going.

Also surprised that I didn't miss the Arkers one bit. 

 

ETA: Or what nosleepforme said while I was writing this. All of it.

Edited by justcris

Share this post


Link to post

Aw man. I wasn't a Lexa superfan (I liked her well enough but didn't love her) but what a crappy way to go. I actually feel really bad for her which is a surprise given i was mostly ehh about her character. They keep doing these Grounder commanders wrong. I'm still pissed off about how they killed Anya (though it was one of my favourite episodes purely for the Anya/Clarke misadventures).

The flashback stuff was great. I love seeing the whole thing link together, especially with the Grounder mythology and the ALIE 1.0 arc. I agree with the people unthread, it was way more interesting than Pike's nonsense at Arkadia (though I still missed Raven).

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

As for the Lesbian sex=death trope, I don't quite get it, as there have been plenty of straight characters who suffered the same fate to propel the story of the main character on other shows/in other movies. I don't think it's a cliché exclusive to LGBT characters.

 

 

I don't think the whole killing a character after sex and happiness is solely linked to lesbian characters, that happens plenty of times to straight characters as well.

 

I don't think anyone's saying that it NEVER happens to male/female couples, sometimes it does. But male/females couples also have hundred of other romances every TV season to choose from. There are so few female/female couples on TV, and a disproportionately high number of them seem to end in death to one of the characters.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think anyone's saying that it NEVER happens to male/female couples, sometimes it does. But male/females couples also have hundred of other romances every TV season to choose from. There are so few female/female couples on TV, and a disproportionately high number of them seem to end in death to one of the characters.

So much word. It even has a TVTropes page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuryYourGays

I mean, just play a game with yourself: how many lesbian characters on TV have ever gotten happy endings? And how many lesbian characters die? I think you'll quickly realize the latter group is FAR bigger than the former. (And a disproportionately high number of deaths follow quickly upon sex too.)

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Lexa dying didn't bother me too much because (even beyond the death anvils from the start of the season) plot-wise she didn't die because she was a lesbian, she died because it was important to the mytharc to reveal that the "spirit" of the Commander was actually the ALIE 2.0 system and so that we and, more importantly, Murphy (who has context from Jaha's crazy City of Light quest) could make the connection between the AI, the Nightbloods and the lost 13th colony and then be able to act on that information (because you can't just drop the bombshell that Lexa was at least partly the same AI program that ALIE 1.0 was looking for and then NOT do anything with it plot-wise).

 

If last season we'd been introduced to "Alex" instead of "Lexa" in the commander role, I think the exact same storyline would have played out, complete with "Alex's" death to reveal the existence of the "Heda" AI system and no one would be outraged at the development at all. If a lesbian relationship is no different than any other relationship (which is the direction the show has always gone and received praise for) then there's nothing outrageous about this development all. If anything, this death just highlights the lack of care given to the fridging of Bellemy's two-episode fling as a motivation.

 

This death also creates an interesting story scenario for Clarke too and is probably the reason she's still at Polis and not Arcadia. We don't currently know how much of Lexa was the actual pre-commander Lexa and how much was the AI in her head (someone upthread pointed out that Erica Cerra has been basing her A.I. performance off Alycia's Lexa performance). So, imagine if the AI goes to the Nightblood girl the Ice Nation found (which everyone would expect to cause all sorts of problems) only for her to start acting very much like Lexa right after the chip is implanted, including memories of and the attraction to Clarke.

 

Even if its just the new Commander having Lexa's memories of Clarke and a few of Lexa's mannerisms, that's some interesting fodder to explore in a story right there... something that gets down to the sci-fi roots of what it is to be a human and what it is to love (the latter particularly if they go for most of Lexa's personality having come from the A.I. like a sort of computerized version of Dax on Deep Space Nine).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I caught up with this show thinking how much I enjoy it despite the many flaws one could find and literally two episodes later it has turned to something a lot worse. Must be a new record for me.

 

As mentioned above, this is Tara from BtVS all over again, only worse IMO, because of the whole implanted AI nonsense and Murphy and Clarke inexplicably deciding to let Titus be around when the woman he shot lay dying. Jason Rothenberg even had the gall to give an interview for the popular lesbian culture website AfterEllen and brag how awesome the upcoming episode was going to be. Talk about asking for trouble.

 

I really don't like the AI angle of this season. Humans deciding to start a nuclear war to me is so much more interesting than yet another AI who does it. And I really wish Hollywood scriptwriters would finally understand that no government is dumb enough to let the computers that control the nuclear missiles be connected to an external network, so no matter how powerful this AI is it couldn't have launched any rockets without first "hacking" the people who press the buttons at the launch silos. And injecting AI into the blood is almost as stupid as the idea that bone marrow transplants make people resistant to radiation or that radiation kills you in seconds. The grounders are sort of servants of the AI, what an exciting twist. Not.

 

In other news, shut up Octavia! I usually like you a lot but whining that this is "the second time [Lexa] has left us all to die"? Illogical much? Even the first time most of you weren't inside Mt Weather and this time, attacking only Arkadians outside a five mile zone is astonishingly generous under the circumstances - so generous it literally got Lexa killed.

 

And Clarke, you Murphy is your friend? Since when?

 

I don't know, I have been preparing for Lexa's death for quite some time now because the writing was all on the all with the biggest letters possible but now I saw the showrunner saying how great the idea of pulling the Matrix drone from Lexa's neck was and said to myself "that's the genius whose show I want to watch and discuss in detail? Maybe I should cut my losses and drop the show now before it becomes even worse". I will probably give it a chance but I remember how elated I was after the fight with Roan in 3.04. and can't help but wonder what might have been. Not just with keeping Lexa alive but making the political machinations less about the stupid AI thing.

 

And I just have to complain against the way Lexa got shot. So she hears gunshots and rushes into the room without even trying to duck for cover or whatever people who have trained for combat their entire lives do. Titus's idea that people would assume it was Murphy who had killed Clark was also silly contrivance - what motive would he have to kill Clarke and then (presumably) kill himself too? Wouldn't Titus have been blamed anyway, unless he killed the guards who delivered Murphy into his hands?

Edited by Jack Shaftoe

Share this post


Link to post

Quick googling shows this episode was shot in September. FTWD didn't start shooting until December. That means ADC was free all up to 3x12 that was shot in December, but Rothenberg been trying to pass it off as AMC locked her down after episode 7. So schedule conflicts my ass as she was free for months (and sniffing a bit more around, she spent some of those months just chilling between Australia and LA). Then there is also

that ADC is for sure in 3x16, and high probability of 3x15 and maybe even more episodes that that

. Also having her unable to be in 4 episodes or so is hardly reason to kill off the character. Lastly what a shitty way for a character to die. She didn't got out as a warrior, or for her people or for anyone she cares about but to a random bullet. This seems so carelessly done purely for shock value. Like they couldn't even give her a 'good death'.

 

I honestly knew Lexa was gone the moment I looked at social media before even watching the episode. Mind you I am not straight so my network is dominated by LGBT* people and some fandom stuff.  Lots of self loathing, anger (parts of it self directed) and the suicide hotline for LGBT* youth, so I knew what had happened.

 

It is not rare that when we finally see ourselves on TV, that we die or get some shitty ending. It is actually so so damn common and even have been enforced by law at one point. That ever since LGBT* characters were allowed in the media, we were not allowed a happy ending or well... existence. We either had to die, become "normal" or have a miserable life, with our pain used for entertainment for straight people and a deterrent against being anything but straight. Otherwise it wouldn't be allowed to be published or put on screen.

 

Even now with those rules gone, the entire shitty construct still bears down on us. There are over 70+ years of media constantly pushing this construct. Please don't try to peddle the "it happens to straight people to", because the thing about straight people? You guys are everywhere. There isn't a story that hasn't been told 10000 times over with a straight person at the helm. Not happy with the current story you got? Change the channel. You guys had millions of happy endings, while I am still searching high and low for just a single one where the journey isn't also shit on the way.

 

I have watched F/F couples from US, Canada, Spain, Japan, China, South-Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, Portugal, Brazil, Italy and so on. And I can't think of a single regular F/F couple that had a good story and a not shitty ending. Not. A. Single. One. And I been looking for 16 years starting from when I was 12 years old. So don't try to pass it off as the same as straight people. When the majority of the media that features you have you dying, raped, miserable, psychotic, turning straight or disappearing at one point etc., it is quite different how you relate to what little (seemingly) positive representation you can get. There is a certain alienation that media is soaked in that effects you, and you tend to grab on harder when there is finally, fan-fucking-finally, something relate-able among the sea of stories, relationships and characters that ring hollow to you. Also this show being the 100 is no excuse for it to follow to the letter the receipt for the trope of the Dead Lesbian.

 

Saddest thing with the show doing this is how utterly blind some parts will be to the effect. Not any show having a lesbian character dying can provoke such a reaction as is currently unfolding. We (LGBT*) are very much aware that we tend to get murdered in the 0.5% of the media that represents us or get shitty treatment, problem here is that people dared to believe in what the writers were saying and that they were aware of the damage of this trope. There is always this dance that happens when a F/F couple pops up that aren't shit of the bat. This tentative stage of hope mixed with the behaviour of once bitten twice shy. Here LGBT* people believed that this might be the one time that we get to exist as full human beings and be on equal grounds with our straight counter part, and dodge tropes that originates from homophobia. They were actively encouraged by the people involved to have faith and hope that things would be alright. And what happened? One of the top 3 most common tropes in homophobic propaganda took place. Lesbian sex followed by death of the lesbian character.

 

Did the writers intend to enforce this? No. Were they completely aware that they were indeed doing that? With 100% certainty. LGBT* fans been all over social media with the concerns about Lexa dying for over a year, talking about the trope and problems, and the writers chose to put on a front of positivity and spreading hope despite knowing since Comic Con apparently, that they were going to kill Lexa. That is pretty shitty, and will definitely cause some anger because people feel like they been played for a fool. Doesn't help Jason going on twitter with "who saw that coming", because basically everyone was expecting it but they decided to hope it would be different - better. And really, saying the "they just want viewers/are being business people" don't hold up, because they could just had kept answers vague or non-committal, and people would still be curious.

 

What is truly sad is Lexa served as a role model to many young LGBT* people, and was very unique. Lesbians don't ever get to be badass leaders like this, particularly ones that navigate a post apoc landscape and interesting shades of grey. She is definitely the biggest in the past few years, and seeing young LBGT* angry at themselves for daring to believe things could be alright for just once, that they thought the writers got it, that they understood is just.... I sincerely hate it. And the fact that they didn't need to kill Lexa off just sours it all so much more. It wouldn't exactly be hard for Murphy together with Clarke and seeing that scar/infinity symbol + Lexa's talk about the Commanders within, to put two and two together. Rothenberg claimed schedule conflicts where there appears to be almost none, and there will be none for S4 of the 100 and S3 of FTWD.

 

I am definitely out for now. I honestly didn't think I cared enough about Lexa and Clarke/Lexa for that to happen. I thought if the show actually did this to Lexa I would still be fine to watch for Clarke, the themes of the show and several of the other characters. But this kind of shit just alienates and taints everything so much, and it grates that I just know, that the writers and others, just won't even truly get why this was such a dick move. It is just not within their life experiences to understand this, nor do they truly have the interest to do so.

Edited by Riful
  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

Rothenberg is hiding behind scheduling conflicts? But I thought Lexa's death such an amazing story he just couldn't wait to show us? Which is it Jason? Or you can only come up with amazing stories when forced to write off a character?

 

More importantly, unless the AMC told him he was never getting Alycia for even a single scene until Fear The Walking Death is over, I don't see how scheduling conflicts mean he had no choice but to kill Lexa. What about the clans banishing her or attempting to kill her, so he has to run and hide somewhere for while? Contrived, sure but not any more so than this magic bullet.

 

Everyone who has had any contact with the F/F shipping community must know how much this kind of plots are hated - not just killing one character but making it happen immediately after a sex scene. Joss Whedon could at least claim not to have known why this would have tons of unfortunate implications 15 years ago because lesbian characters were so rare on TV back then (though I think he knew all too well what the fans reaction would be and why) but today, a showrunner would have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to see exactly why such a plotline would be deemed offensive by many. If he feels he had to do it because it was an amazing story, fair enough. I don't agree but I would be loathe to see writers deciding to not write certain plots because people might be offended. But courting the same group of fans you know you are going to offend is rather slimy, IMO.

 

Come to think of it, if Clarke had not decided to stay a few hours more to have sex none of this would have happened because she wouldn't have been around for Titus to try to kill her. So not only we have "sex followed by murder" but "sex which makes it possible for the murder to happen". The words "what were they thinking" come to mind.

 

Last but not least they had to write Lexa as OOC to give Titus a reason for his idiotic murder plot. Waiting for the opposition to remove Pike and moving to contain his forces only after he attacked a village is not something she would have done. I mean, how can Kane stay in power even if his coup is successful? Most people supported Pike even before his (implausibly easy) massacre of the grounder army. Until the grounders inflict some heavy defeats on Pike's forces he is going to remain popular.

 

Edited to add: I really shouldn't be reading Rothenberg's interviews because they make me even more pissed. Like this gem:

 

 

What was your thinking behind having Clarke and Lexa finally sleep together… right before Lexa dies?
Well … [pause] … that was a hard one. I knew that I wanted to have them have that moment; I knew that I wanted it to happen this season; I just didn’t want it to happen too soon. Any episode prior to now it would have been too soon in my mind.

Taking out for a second the fact that Lexa dies in the episode, these two women who have fallen in love are now about to be forced apart because of the politics on the Ground. The Grounder blockade and the kill order that’s going out on all Skaikru, who knows how long that’s going to last? It forces Clarke behind that line.

I jokingly talk about how it’s like the summer of your senior year in high school: You’re going off to college, and your girlfriend is going off to another college. You don’t know if it’s ever going to be the same again, so you have goodbye sex. It’s emotional, and it’s sad, and it’s lovely. That was what we were going for. In this case, it just so happened to be their first sexual encounter.

 

It's like summer of your senior year in high school? The who in the what now? Really, the sex was only sad in retrospect because we know this blockade wasn't going to last all that long.

 

 

… She was only was available to us for seven episodes this season — and beyond that, maybe never again available to us. So as a storyteller/showrunner, I needed to weigh that against the story that we’re telling. I happen to think it’s an amazing story that we’re telling, but certainly the decision to kill that character was made a little bit easier by the fact that that I knew we weren’t going to get to play with Alycia Debnam-Carey anymore.

 

He can't even keep his story straight (well, other than killing queer characters, that is). First he says Alycia will maybe never again be available for his show and seconds later that he knew this was going to be the case. So was it certain or not?

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Riful, a standing ovation to your post (seriously, if I wasn't at work I probably would have cheered out loud). Funny how the gays never die because they're gay, really guys, it's about the STORY...and yet somehow the gays always still die. It's 20-fucking-16. TV can do better in so many ways.
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Riful, I'm bisexual, so I appreciate where you're coming from. I really do. I've been frustrated about this for years.

 

But with that said, as I saw a couple of other people comment on Twitter last night, I think it's a bit much to ask The 100, with its high death count, to be the groundbreaking drama show that gives a lesbian couple a happy ending.  This is the same show that killed off a 14 year old murderer in season one; had its protagonist kill her boyfriend in season two, and then followed that up by not warning her own people, including her own mother, about an incoming missile, and then followed that up by having three teenagers kill about 300 people, including kids, in the finale.  This was the same episode that started off with a nuclear war, continued with a violent death, and then had twelve space stations blow up a thirteenth station on what was supposed to be Unity Day.

 

Under these circumstances, giving the lesbian woman a happy ending presents its own issues and would ring false to me.  Especially since this death had nothing to do with her sexual orientation, but everything to do with Lexa's previous political/strategic choices: persuading Clarke not to warn the village about the incoming missile and then later abandoning Clarke and the rest of the Arkers at Mount Weather, a decision that led both to Clarke being too traumatized to return to her people and take up a leadership role, one reason why Pike has been able to take control, and to Bellamy not trusting the Grounders (which is in character) which has helped lead to his participating in mass murdering Grounders (which I think is less in character.) That is: she did things that left potential allies emotionally damaged/distrustful, and it turned out to bite her in the ass. This season, she's chosen not to take revenge on the Arkers, upsetting her own commanders/allies. Lexa not taking a hit for this is the unrealistic option - if you look at the comments on the last couple of episodes, plenty of people were speculating that the decision not to attack the Arkers would go badly for Lexa. It did.

 

What I think might be more of a problem is setting up that death with a sex scene right before it. On the one hand, I get it: the show's been teasing Clarke and Lexa for several episodes now, and wanted to give us some payoff in that regard and to give the death maximum emotional impact.

 

On the other hand, not only have we seen this so many times - couple finally has sex/reunites/gets engaged/married and then one of them is suddenly killed (or, over on Arrow, joins a group of assassins) - but as much time as the show has spent on Clarke and Lexa, that scene still didn't feel fully earned to me: I kept thinking, uh, Clarke, a) you idiot, b) you have to go to the Arkadians; this can wait, c) yes, Lexa's been doing stuff to make it up to you this season, but she still betrayed you last season, which turned you into a mass murderer, and which has led to the current situation. Just a few episodes ago, you were spitting in her face.  (For the record, I would say the same exact thing if she'd ended up in bed with Bellamy this episode - uh, Clarke, Bellamy just handcuffed and betrayed you. What are you thinking?)  And also, d) Lexa's going to die soon, isn't she?  So that's the scene I have more of a problem with.

Edited by quarks
  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
But with that said, as I saw a couple of other people comment on Twitter last night, I think it's a bit much to ask The 100, with its high death count, to be the groundbreaking drama show that gives a lesbian couple a happy ending.

 

Why? There is a very high chance that there will be several heterosexual couples with a happy ending.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

When the showrunners cite scheduling conflicts as a reason for a particular plot in an episode that includes Roger Cross (dude never stops working!), I have to call bullshit.  Actors and studios work around schedules all the time.  

 

We have been building up to Lexa's death since we met her and it has certainly been set up all season long.  That doesn't mean they need to dispatch her in the most insensitive of ways.  They set up her death explicitly to be a Bury the Gay trope.  It's disgusting.  She dies because she's a lesbian, not because of the many leadership decisions she's made that has alienated her people. I find that indefensible.  

 

I've already had issues with how the show has treated female characters.  With Miller's bro hug to his boyfriend and now this week's cliche lesbian death, I want to gag and then proceed to metaphorically punch TPTB in their eyeballs.  

Edited by Lion
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I think the baiting is probably more enraging to me than anything else. He (and the rest of the writers) spent a lot of time right up until maybe a week ago re-assuring people about Lexa's fate. I don't think he should've just come out and said "she's a gonner" but at the same time, don't act like you are this bastion of representation when you knew all along that you were going to end the character by having her shot right after a sex scene and that in itself is poor writing.

 

I may be a straight male but I get where some posters are coming from with this and tbh, I agree.

Edited by kdm07
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

Why? There is a very high chance that there will be several heterosexual couples with a happy ending.

 

 

Because from what I'm seeing, this show has not been at all kind to heterosexual couples either. Clarke and Finn - one's dead. Jasper and Maya - one's dead. Abby and her husband - one not just dead, but betrayed by his own wife. Bellamy and whatever her name was - one's dead. Monty's parents - one dead. Raven and what's his name - split up because of backstage issues, but still.  And I'm not convinced that the all of the characters in the current/potential heterosexual relationships (Octavia/Lincoln, Murphy/what's her name, Abby/Kane, Bellamy/Clarke, and if some people on Twitter are correct, Murphy/Clarke) are going to survive this season, let alone to the end of the series. To be fair, I'm not holding out much hope for Miller and his boyfriend either.  I just don't think that the heterosexual couples are doing all that much better on this show, and I'm not going to assume that if it does end with happy couples, that all of them are going to be heterosexual.

Share this post


Link to post

Because from what I'm seeing, this show has not been at all kind to heterosexual couples either. Clarke and Finn - one's dead. Jasper and Maya - one's dead. Abby and her husband - one not just dead, but betrayed by his own wife. Bellamy and whatever her name was - one's dead. Monty's parents - one dead. Raven and what's his name - split up because of backstage issues, but still.  And I'm not convinced that the all of the characters in the current/potential heterosexual relationships (Octavia/Lincoln, Murphy/what's her name, Abby/Kane, Bellamy/Clarke, and if some people on Twitter are correct, Murphy/Clarke) are going to survive this season, let alone to the end of the series. To be fair, I'm not holding out much hope for Miller and his boyfriend either.  I just don't think that the heterosexual couples are doing all that much better on this show, and I'm not going to assume that if it does end with happy couples, that all of them are going to be heterosexual.

No one is claiming that straight couples have had it good on this show.  This argument is like the "but white people die too(/all lives matter)" rebuttal when someone mentions the treatment of black men on tv (or in real life).  And by the way, the fridging of Bellamy's lover this season has been widely criticized, especially as the trope was used to justified his poorly considered arc, so it's false to claim that no other relationships have received negative commentary. 

 

By and large, these other couples didn't die almost explicitly due to their sexuality.  It would have been perceived quite differently if an assassin had broken into Lexa's chambers while she was meditating and taken her out.  She's a leader who has become unpopular and has had several death threats and attempts against her life.  Instead, they decide to manipulate the plot so that her sexuality is what leads her to be gutshot.

Edited by Lion
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

 

Because from what I'm seeing, this show has not been at all kind to heterosexual couples either.

 

Sure but I think it's a pretty safe bet that some of them will make it to the finale. Maybe Clarke will hook up with another woman or Miller and his boyfriend will make it, so there will be even some representation of non-heterosexual couples. The point is that characters, romantically involved or not, gay or straight, defying the odds and surviving is the bread and butter of such stories. It's a show where hundreds of people survived descending from space into the Earth's atmosphere in space station pieces that were very unsuitable for that purpose, so I don't think it's too much to ask for any character to survive just about anything. Whether their survival makes for a better story or not is whole different matter. Some need to die to not make the whole thing a joke with no tension or plausibility, sure but a particular character surviving doesn't exactly break my suspension of disbelief, all things considered. If it were a setting where people were violently prejudiced against lesbians then yes, asking for an openly lesbian relationship to have a happy ending would probably have been a bit too much but that's not the case.

Share this post


Link to post

I think the baiting is probably more enraging to me than anything else. He (and the rest of the writers) spent a lot of time right up until maybe a week ago re-assuring people about Lexa's fate. I don't think he should've just come out and said "she's a gonna" but at the same time, don't act like you are this bastion of representation when you knew all along that you were going to end the character by having her shot right after a sex scene and that in itself is poor writing.

I maybe a straight male but I get where some posters are coming from with this and tbh, I agree.

You also don't get to see yourself up as a bastion of representation and social awareness and then think you can duck out of very well deserved criticism or think you're specia by being like "we know about this trope, and we played right into it, BUT...."
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

RIP Lexa :( :( :(

 

Please tell me, does ALIE 1.0 wants ALIE 2.0 gone? ALIE 1.0 is bad and ALIE 2.0 is the good one?

I won't be shocked if ALIE 2.0 goes inside Clarke at the end of this season too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Lexa. :( They really shouldn't have killed her. She was such a great character. Wonder who will be the next Commander.

 

Nice seeing Murphy rejoin someone  that he knows. 

 

I really enjoyed the episode though, didn't realize until the end that they didn't show Arkadia at all. No Pike or Bellamy being awful is great. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

On a different note, so was I the only who found the "ghost" implanted in Lexa extremely silly? And the grounders calling their leader commander because that was rank of the AI's creator (Becca)? Rothenberg can talk about how well he linked the two storylines but in my opinion the whole thing is really contrived. I sure didn't sign up to watch AI 1.0 vs AI 2.0. Also, people who don't want to use even guns because technology destroyed the planet being okay with implanting AI in themselves? Or too stupid to make a distinction between ghosts and technology? Sorry, not buying it.

 

So we have the dead lesbian trope (I am a straight male but let's not kid ourselves that it doesn't exist) and the evil extremely powerful AI which can't understand humans trope. Oh, and a show centered around another trope that I dislike intensely, namely zombies, was a big factor in Rothenberg's decision to kill off Lexa. I swear, if turns out that somebody has an evil twin I am dropping The 100 because enough is enough...

Edited by Jack Shaftoe

Share this post


Link to post

Actually, I kind of liked the AI stuff. But Person of Interest has been on hellatus so long that I have probably drastically lowered my standards for AI plots!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, so I agree with quarks about the Anyone Can Die trope sort of nullifies the let's kill the gay people thing.

But I still don't care. I'm not saying they shouldn't have killed Lexa, okay, yes I am. But the classless way they did it is what bothers me. The writers aren't stupid and they knew that the reactions people would have. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean, I loved Finn but I wasn't offended when they killed him. I get people die on this show but this was just tacky.

This post doesn't really add anything that you guys haven't said I just find that I'm still really upset about it and need to vent.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps, I missed something but the more I think about it the more I'm not cool with Lexa being the host for the A.I.. I mean is it implying that Lexa only got her brains and moxie and survival instincts from the A.I. vs just growing and becoming this brilliant leader?

Like I feel like they stripped a feminine yet strong lesbian character of her not just her life but her entire story.

 

ETA: What I mean is that often a strong lesbian in a leadership role or a soldier is often portrayed as more 'butch' or less stereotypically feminine in appearance. But Lexa subverted all those stereotypes .

Do I have that wrong??

Edited by catrox14

Share this post


Link to post

I think perhaps that Lexa already had these qualities before being chosen for her position. She was raised and taught these skills. I think maybe the AI might just be like her guide/conscience thing.

Edited by Delphi
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think perhaps that Lexa already had these qualities before being chosen for her position. She was raised and taught these skills. I think maybe the AI might just be like her guide/conscience thing.

 

Yeah, that doesn't really make me feel better.  :( But thanks for trying

Share this post


Link to post

On a different note, so was I the only who found the "ghost" implanted in Lexa extremely silly? And the grounders calling their leader commander because that was rank of the AI's creator (Becca)? Rothenberg can talk about how well he linked the two storylines but in my opinion the whole thing is really contrived. I sure didn't sign up to watch AI 1.0 vs AI 2.0. Also, people who don't want to use even guns because technology destroyed the planet being okay with implanting AI in themselves? Or too stupid to make a distinction between ghosts and technology? Sorry, not buying it.

 

One thing they kind of let slide was the black stuff that Becca injected into herself prior to inserting the AI chip -- is that necessary to host the AI chip ?  And it looked like she only had a limited supply, so how do these new recruits have this black blood ?  Are they descendants of Becca ?

 

Did Becca throw those stitches into the back of her neck herself ?  Because that seems unlikely, unless she has a 3rd arm to hold the mirror.

 

The biggest WTF was when Becca landed on Earth -- fully two years after the nuclear apocalypse -- and there were people walking around an area rife with high radiation levels (1110 milliSieverts, per the meter on Becca's arm, which is about a million times higher than a dental x-ray).  How were those people even alive in that kind of environment ? And how did Becca live long in that type of environment since she landed near the Polis tower -- or was the black blood injection protection against radiation ?

 

Was Becca supposed to be some uber-rich tech-billionaire Elon Musk type since she stated that she owned the Polaris station ?

 

When the escape pod descended from the Polaris station and Rebecca got out of the capsule, it looked like the nuclear bombs had only exploded a few days beforehand -- there was smoke from smoldering fires  even though the Commander (Richard Cross) said he had been holding the station together for two years since shit went down on the planet.

 

I think perhaps that Lexa already had these qualities before being chosen for her position. She was raised and taught these skills. I think maybe the AI might just be like her guide/conscience thing.

 

I wonder if Lexa also saw some virtual person much like Jaha and Raven see ALIE (the woman in red).

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I doubt even the writers have much of a clue as to how much the AI influences the commanders. But then again, I am very much against the whole implanted AI plotline, so I might be a little biased.

 

Come to think of it, the immediate aftermath of Lexa's shooting was bizarre. I can understand Clarke concentrating on trying to save Lexa but why wouldn't Murphy try to attack the guy who tortured him and tried to frame him for murder? And Lexa? "Serve the next one as you have served me" - does that mean Titus should shoot her successor too or any advisers/lovers he or she happens to dislike?

 

Also, don't the Heda have any guards, servants or other people around? Shots are fired, nobody comes to check what's going on? Really lazy storytelling.

 

 

The biggest WTF was when Becca landed on Earth -- fully two years after the nuclear apocalypse -- and there were people walking around an area rife with high radiation levels (1110 milliSieverts, per the meter on Becca's arm, which is about a million times higher than a dental x-ray).  How were those people even alive in that kind of environment ? And how did Becca live long in that type of environment since she landed near the Polis tower -- or was the black blood injection protection against radiation ?

 

Seems like the black blood protects against radiation, so this Becca is quite the genius - she not only created an AI but also a way to make people radiation proof.

 

 

I wonder if Lexa also saw some virtual person much like Jaha and Raven see ALIE (the woman in red).

 

If Alyicia wasn't busy with the stupid zombie show, I bet she would have lived on in Clarke's implant and they would have had lots of cybersex. Like Gaius Baltar and Caprica Six, only a lot less funny.

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

The flashback of the nuclear destruction said 97 years ago which I guess we knew but it doesn't seem possible to me that within 3 generations a new language evolved on Earth. Language obviously evolves over time but so fast?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I need to stop watching this show after I get back from drinking. How are there two a.i.s running around and what happened to the trader chick that Clarke slept with? For the next commander, didn't Lexa introduce Clarke to a young boy who was her second? That'd make him the new commander, right?

Share this post


Link to post

The boy was the most promising candidate but I think there is some kind of competition to see who will become the next commander.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×