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Seasons One-Three Talk: When Grimm Was Good

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A place to discuss particular past episodes, arcs and moments from the Grimm's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for current episodes, character topics and other places for show-related talk.

 

Some posts may be moved from here to the appropriate topic or episode thread; if you think a post has gone missing, please PM me and I'll let you know where it went!

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So, a couple of days ago I was at my friend's vegetarian cookbook release party at Microcosm press in Portland. It is by Providence Hospital on Williams street. http://microcosmpublishing.com/ He provided a lot of food that was set out.  The actor who plays Bud the beaver came with two friends. I think I must have been one of the only people who actually recognized him and I don't think anyone spoke to him as an actor. I explained Grimm to a few people. One said that Grimm paid his other place of work $300 to rent their parking lot at 11th and Alder.

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I'm really enjoying this show. I prefer the gender-neutral aspect of being a Grimm, versus the Slayers all being female. I understand why Joss & Co. did it, but I like this better.

Plus, who doesn't love MonRosalee?

Edited by Dianthus
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Okay, here's what I've been thinking about lately. We are closing in on the end of the third season, and the show still doesn't seem to have settled into an identity. It is neither a monster of the week without larger arcs, nor do the larger arcs seem to be going anywhere. A number of threads have been introduced, but they're idling, with no one coming to the fore.

 

Grimm could have been a buddy adventure with comedic elements if they'd followed Nick/Monroe, but instead they've drawn secondary characters into the inner circle so that Nick/Monroe have more scenes with other characters than they do with each other.

 

Sometimes it seems that Nick's story is building toward a larger conflict, but we still have no idea what that would be. The Royals? They're just one of several factions, and do not seem particularly effectual, nor are they in a hurry to achieve some end of their own. We've been told that they have some nebulous ambition to restore themselves to ruling monarchies, which seems like a preposterous assertion. Do they even have a plan? We haven't seen one. 

 

There are coins and keys lying around, seemingly forgotten. None of those are developing. 

 

My personal favorite was the idea of Nick being drawn in as the unwilling arbiter of conflicts between the wesen types, as when he united and protected the eisbiebers. But that seems to have been forgotten. 

 

Long story short, I'm getting the same feeling I got in X Files season 3 and Battlestar Calactica season 2, wherein it was becoming increasingly evident that these shows had no idea where they wanted to go, and never would deliver on the terrific promise of their premises. 

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Love your screen name, Ghost of TWOP Past! I agree that the show is floundering plot-wise, but no sharks have been jumped yet. Did you not include Lost in your post above because mentioning it has become a kind of Godwin's law in television discussion?

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Yes, I'm not one of those people who are always anxious to pronounce a show dead. I'm still enjoying Grimm, but not as much as I hoped, and I'm not seeing it getting better. I didn't include Lost because after X Files & BSG, I was not about to let myself get suckered into another mytharcy show, and so never watched an episode. (And thanks about my name. :) ) 

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I really want to fall back in love with this show, but I can't help but feel that it peaked in its first season. I loved the emphasis on creative, amusingly twisted spins on fairy tales instead of the poorly paced, nebulous 'arcs' they've been drifting through ever since. I loved that the show seemed to have a little more humor and self-awareness then. I loved that back then I could cling to the hope that Juliette would eventually be given a defined personality and that Bitsie Tulloch would benefit from some acting lessons. I loved Monroe when he had an edgy fierceness and a more layered dynamic with Nick instead of being in his own sappy lifetime couple-y movie with Rosalee. I even loved the LOOK of the show back then as compared to now.

 

I know that shows can't remain stagnant, but I just wish that more of what I loved from the first season was still in evidence. Now it feels like a generic SyFy made-for-TV movie for me more often than not. As I said, I really do want to love it again, but I'm just not sure that I can.  

Edited by amensisterfriend
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Whatever happened to the zombie-like Nick storyline? You know, him being almost dead when he was asleep and all that. Did that go somewhere? I haven't been giving this show my full attention, so did I miss something important?

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No, you haven't missed anything, just to be clear.  This season has picked-up just after the season 3 cliffhanger-ish finale. Since that was about Nick's loss of his Grimm abilities, further exploration of his zombie-esque  abilities has been sidelined. I, personally, was wondering if the enhanced hearing from the fly guy was removed, but that hasn't been addressed. I am banking the writers have roped it in with the rest of Nick's Grimm abilities. Which is a shame, sort of. It could tell us more about how his acquired abilitites work with his inherent abilities, but that's me.

 

I also like that there was a bit of a pick-up of how the wesen world views mixed-marriage, like Monroe and Rosalee. I hope that it feeds into Nick getting back to balancing his cop and Grimm mandates.  Episodes like "Cat and Mouse" (S1E18) and anything Verrat related interest me, since Nick is so overwhelmed and not sure who he can trust outside of his immediate circle.  Even if we had biased accounts from Kelly and Elizabeth, Nick would be able to use that knowledge- knowing how it was filtered- and probably keep himself safe.  Unfortunately, the actual writing is so vague and wispy. Plus, we get it in such dribs and drabs.

 

I wish the mix between story arc- not necessarily mytharc- and stand alone case were more balanced. I enjoyed having the fairy tales turned cases; in the B- or C- plot, there was stuff moving around for when it was their turn to be A-plot.  For instance: did we ever have the "He" clarified from" Beeware" (S1E3)?  They were likened to an early warning system, so I discounted Renard, since Nick was distrustful of Renard at that point. So? 

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I've noticed that Grimm is doing something that several other shows are doing these days. They've casted an actress to play Renard's mother who is only 3 years older than the actor who plays Renard. I don't understand why shows have a such a problem using older actresses that they feel the need to have a 44 year old play the mother of a 41 year old. It is so ridiculous!

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In this particular case it doesn't bother me that much because she is a hexienbeast (know I've misspelled that) so she can change her appearance.   And as Renard said when she was first introduced, she's had some work done. ;-)

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I could be crazy (don't all chime in at once), but I could have sworn that when Nick's Mom was explaining her early Grimm training, she mentioned going out with her dad.   She also said her brother never went because his powers never developed.   If I did hear this, does this mean Nick has an uncle somewhere we have never seen or hear referenced when his aunt was dying?

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They've casted an actress to play Renard's mother who is only 3 years older than the actor who plays Renard. I don't understand why shows have a such a problem using older actresses that they feel the need to have a 44 year old play the mother of a 41 year old. It is so ridiculous!

 

Sixty-five year old Judith Light was playing 61-year-old Mitch Pileggi's mother on Dallas 2.0, and that's without benefit of magic.

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True, and in the original Manchurian Candidate, Angela Lansbury played Frank Sinatra's mother, even though they were the same age! At least Grimm had the decency to suggest supernatural forces were at work, otherwise it would be just plain tacky.

 

Although, I have often suspected there were supernatural forces at work on Angela Lansbury. Her face is probably woven into pre-Christian tapestries somewhere.

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Actually, Lansbury played the mother of Laurence Harvey, not Sinatra, but the core of the message remains the same.  She was really 3 years older; Sinatra was 10 years older than Lansbury.

 

And Harvey, coincidentally, played Wilhelm Grimm in "The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm" - I remember going to see that in (OMG!!!)  CINERAMA!!!

Edited by Prevailing Wind
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Thanks, Prevailing Wind,  for an excuse to re-watch that movie! I bow to your superior, more accurate facts!

 

 

I could be crazy (don't all chime in at once), but I could have sworn that when Nick's Mom was explaining her early Grimm training, she mentioned going out with her dad.   She also said her brother never went because his powers never developed.   If I did hear this, does this mean Nick has an uncle somewhere we have never seen or hear referenced when his aunt was dying?

I would like to know more about this, too. Not that they need to bring in more characters, because, GAH! But this point is definitely worth exploring. Or, they might be on it already. This branch of the family could be where Trubel came from (I hope not, because I think that's trite and simplistic, and the story works much better when they're not related). I noticed that in 4x01 Nick mentioned to Trubel that the trailer had come all the way from New York with his Aunt Marie. Trubel's birth place in her police file is listed as New York. I don't know of Marie was just passing through, or if their family has roots there, but you never know with these writers. Some things they think through, and others they just throw around wildly and see what sticks. They might be setting it up for them to be cousins, or it might be an unintentional coincidence. In any case, I hope the potential uncle is not just dropped or retconned away. I'd love to know what kind of life he ended up having, especially with all those explorations on that theme this season.

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Could anyone fill me in on the background on this Josh guy?  I've never missed an episode but I don't remember him at all and all of a sudden he seems to be an important character..

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Could anyone fill me in on the background on this Josh guy?  I've never missed an episode but I don't remember him at all and all of a sudden he seems to be an important character..

 

Josh showed up at Nick's door one day.

 

His Grimm father, dying, had filled his head with all kinds of nonsense about monsters being within some people, but only [Dad] could see them. Josh believed his father was two fries short of a Happy Meal, but he was dying so Josh fulfilled his wishes to get to Nick.

 

Trubel answers the door, and Josh, a Kehrseite-Schlich-Kennen, started his immersion into the world of Wesen and Grimm.

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NEW FAN HERE!

I marathoned the first three seasons of Grimm over Christmas holiday, and all of the first half of season 4 over the last few weeks. Great show!

My favorite season might still be the first season, when it was just the Nick and Monroe buddy cop series and the silly Royals plot hasn't taken over the show yet.

I love all the main characters except for Juliette and Adalind, not sure why Juliette is still on this show. Her whole amnesia plot was a chore to sit through in season 2.

Also I find Adalind much better as a reoccurring antagonist that appears only in a few big episodes in a season, her European adventures and baby plots have been really dragged out. I feel like the producers love Claire Coffee too much, and gave her the inane plots just to keep her in the series. A mistake in my opinion, the actress should have just been kept as a reoccurring character.

I didn't think the show would last during the first year. It seems like it is really hard for fantasy or Sci Fi shows to last these days. I only jumped aboard after getting the first three seasons over the holidays. It is a shame the show is not more popular. But at least it has survived so long because keeps getting good ratings for NBC on Friday, while amusingly all the more popular "brand" name shows like Dracula, Hannibal, and Constantine have failed in that department.

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Hannibal has two seasons under it's belt with a third due to air soon-ish.   I didn't stick with Dracula and Constantine is a cool show. I wouldn't call either of them popular coming in, even as Dracula has (appropriately enough) longevity and Constantine has a history in another medium as well. Being a brand doesn't guarantee ratings/ popularity.

 

I believe that Grimm, with S1's emphasis of case/wesen/fairy tale of the week was what kept folks coming back. With the police procedural, it was familiar and reliable. With the wesen, it was the spooky cool new bit that added more curiosity. It was with the updated/off-centered fairy tales that seemed to snag most of the viewers and critics who stayed, iirc.

 

I'd like a better mix of case and wesen, myself. I enjoyed how different takes of fairy tales were mapped on current society and the wesen involved.  While I like the fairy tales, I don't need them every episode, even though, there are thousands and thousands of global stories to be explored.

 

I keep hoping to see Currie Graham again, as the bear lawyer. I'd love to have him a couple of times a season.  I'd also like to have the mellifleurs, the bees, show up again.  They could reluctantly need Nick in his Grimm capacity. Of course the one I'd like to hear from again is Holly Clark, the girl from "Let Down Your Hair."

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NEW FAN HERE!

I love all the main characters except for Juliette and Adalind, not sure why Juliette is still on this show. Her whole amnesia plot was a chore to sit through in season 2.

 

Welcome to the Grimmverse!  

 

As for season 2, you were able to binge watch.  Imagine watching that in real time as it spanned months, week after week hiatus after hiatus, Juliette still in a coma or still having amnesia.  It just seemed to drag on and on and on and on.  And even though I'd remind myself that very little time had passed in show time it was still aggravating.

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I keep hoping to see Currie Graham again, as the bear lawyer.

Oh, yes!  Walter Mashburn from The Mentalist!

 

I guess we don't see the detectives going to court because so few of their "collars" actually live to be tried.  But it would be an interesting change.  The only court scene I remember is when Rosalee was a juror & the goat-dude was influencing the women jurors.

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I've been reading the Michael Connelly "Harry Bosch" detective books for years and they've finally made...oh, can you call it a movie if Amazon produces it for streaming?  Anyway, "Bosch" is now on Amazon Prime starring Titus Welliver as Harry.  He's perfect in the part, but I guess that makes it an even longer shot that Farley Kolt would ever show up again in his quest for the coins.

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I've lived in Portland since 1987.  And I knew Cazzey, the big biker dude who's been in like six episodes since he was 19.  He's radically changed, lol.  

 

I love, love, love how reverently Grimm treats my city.  They make it gloomy, gorgeous, green, and mysterious, which it is, of course, all of those things.  One of my oldest friends scouts the city to tell me or show me places they've filmed.  

 

I am so hoping as a 50-year-old single woman that someday these connections will translate into an introduction or a handshake with Sasha.  

 

:swoon:  

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How would you guys rank the seasons so far from favorite to least favorite? And which 5-10 episodes would you single out as favorites...or, if you're so inclined, least favorites?! 

 

As for seasons, honestly, I'd have to divide season 4 into 2 parts.  But, with that in mind:

Season 1

Season 3

Season 2 (seasons 3 and 2 are almost a tie for me, but the dumb amnesia/obsession storyline puts s2 down)

Season 4a

then...way...way..way...down

Season 4b.

 

Season 1 is the best, in my mind, because it was all world building and everything was new.  To be fair, there isn't that much difference between season2-4a in my mind, but I have never seen a show crash and burn as quickly as this show has in the second half of season 4.

 

My favorite episodes:

#1 - Nameless s2e16 - By far my favorite, simply because I felt it was the best re-telling of a classic fairy tale in a modern way.

 

#2-10 in order of airdate

Game Ogre s1ep8 - The scene where Monroe goes to the trailer for the first time is probably the best scene in this entire series

3 coins in a Fuchsbau s1ep13 - This is where the show really started expanding the Grimmiverse past Portland

Leave it to Beavers s1ep19 - Bud starts to be awesome and Nick starts fedexing heads

The Bottle Imp s2ep7 - This one just creeped me out, unlike any other episode.  And the last scene was heartbreaking (for Nick).

La Llorna s2ep9 - The main story was unique and, well, Monroe at Halloween is fantastic

One Night Stand s3ep4 - Another great handing of a well-known fairy tale

El Cucuy s3ep5 - Totally worth it for the looks on Nick's and Hank's faces in the interrogation room in the second to last scene

Twelve Days of Krampus s3ep8 - Yes, this one is totally corny, but in a delightful way (not a painful way, like s4's holiday episode)

Synchronicity s3e17 - Lots of awesome Kelly, before she takes up kidnapping

Edited by OtterMommy
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Season 1, period.  I loved the budding friendship between Nik and Monroe and then Rosalie joined the group.  

 

Season 2 - 4, where I basically rolled my eyes at anything Juliette related and hoped she died a slow painful death each and every time!

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Season 1, then 4A, then 2 and 3, 4B last of all.  I liked 4A better than 2 and 3 because it wasn't bogged down by amnesia or zombification, though many of the stories of the week were fine.  I binge watched the first 3 seasons and that's not a good way for me/this, so a lot of it blends together or I have forgotten the order of things.  Therefore lots of my favorite episodes are from this last season, like Highway of Tears and Mishipeshu.  Previous season favorites are Bears Will Be Bears and Nobody Knows the Trubel I've Seen.  Man, I think some rewatching is in order!

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This is kind-of a loaded question to ask in here. But I stopped watching early season 3 because it got repetitive. Is it worth trying again?

Well, I'd say that season 3 is still a little repetitive. Season 4 is many things, but repetitive is (usually) not one of them.

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Would anyone have preferred the series be centered around Monroe and Rosalee rather than Nick and Juliet? Would that have made things better or worse?! And given their woeful inability to plot and pace satisfying arcs, do people wish they'd stuck primarily to cases of the week, or would that have gotten stale by now? 

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Would anyone have preferred the series be centered around Monroe and Rosalee rather than Nick and Juliet? Would that have made things better or worse?! And given their woeful inability to plot and pace satisfying arcs, do people wish they'd stuck primarily to cases of the week, or would that have gotten stale by now? 

 

I think that would have been a very different series because neither of them is a Grimm, and would take the main source of activity from the police station to the spice shop/clock repair.  I do think Monroe and Rosalee are more dynamic characters; Nick and definitely Juliette are/were quite vanilla.  As for cases of the week, I probably wouldn't be watching without them.  Not stale to me. 

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I just bought the season 4 Grimm dvd set. The only reason I bought it was because the set has now fallen in price to $15.

I still enjoy the first half of the season with Nick trying to live a normal life, Trubel joining the team, and the Wesenrein hate group storylines. The show really didn't start declining big time until Adalind announced her second pregnancy and HexenJuliette.

I'm still shaking my head at the writers' lame attempt at the Dark Phoenix saga with HexenJuliette.

I also picked up a Disney Infinity Quorra figure for $5. Now THAT was a badass female character, not a poor actress trying to act badass but repeatedly failing (HexenJuliette/Eve/Juliettewithboilingwater).

Edited by icewolf
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