DC Comics: Rebirth and Reboot

[starri]

Here we go again.

 

Thankfully, they've decided to pare down the comics with all those pesky minority leads, so we can get back to what comics are really all about.

[Chip]

I have been burned so many times in the past, but I'm kind of excited about this now that I have read about it. They are talking about bringing back a lot of the stuff lost with this New 52 nonsense. The thing that annoyed me the most about the renumbering were that Action and Detective weren't going to get their #1000s. I had been thinking about that since I was a kid.

[starri]

I'm definitely in favor of them bringing back the baby that they threw out with bathwater (and I completely agree with the numbering), but they also seem to be gutting any of the good stuff that the New 52 had as well.  I haven't liked every title--or even most titles--that they've put out, but the stuff I HAVE liked, like the original run of Justice League Dark and especially Midnighter don't seem like they fit in with this new vision.  

 

Plus, I just find the idea that 17 of 32 titles are Batman-adjacent a little concerning.  I love Batman too, but that really seems to be putting all your eggs into one bat-shaped basket.

 

If we're lucky, this will work and that will give them a little more creative freedom to experiment.  But I'm at least agnostic for now.

[Lantern7]

I'm waiting on creative teams before making any decision. With Secret Six dead (again), I'm curious if Gail Simone will be writing any of the books.

[starri]

Simone has already said Batgirl and the Birds of Prey isn't written by her.

 

I wish DC would just make up their minds and stick with something.  I haven't ever really stopped thinking that the New 52 was a mistake (and I suspect that this is perhaps an acknowledgement of that), but if they'd given it more time to build, they could have built something really interesting.  But now we're back to square one, and probably without the things I'd want most from the old universe.

[Twilight Man]

I'm kind of excited about this now that I have read about it. The thing that annoyed me the most about the renumbering were that Action and Detective weren't going to get their #1000s. I had been thinking about that since I was a kid.

Speaking as a 40 year old, I have been collecting Batman and Superman comics since the early 1980's

(What a wonderful time that was for comic fans:  Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Watchmen, V for Vendetta,

Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dark Phoenix, etc.)

I have also managed to amass most of the comics of Action and Detective from the 70's as well.

I was eagerly anticipating the (two) great moment(s) when Action and Detective both hit issue #1000.

 

When the new 52 happened and everything was reset to #1, it felt like a gut punch.

DC Comics has managed on a few other occasions to "reset" Batman and Superman without needing to reset the numbering of their comics.  (Silver Age, aforementioned "Crisis")

It felt like an incredible betrayal, like DC was now only interested in making money, by relying on cheap marketing gimmicks, instead of caring about their fans.

 

I still clung to just one hope; that DC would ultimately bring back the original numbering,

like Marvel did to Fantastic Four (and a few others)

several months after that whole "Heroes Reborn", "Heroes Return", "Heroes R*******" thing.

(Of course, what Marvel is now doing to Fantastic Four is, well, another matter altogether)

I am at least a bit happy to hear that my wish has been answered,

and although DC is still mostly resorting to cheap marketing gimmicks;

at least the fans of Superman and Batman can look forward to this great moment that is over 75 years in the making.

 

(Speaking of "Heroes Reborn" and "Heroes Return", I remember reading a fan's comment in a letter column in the back of a DC comic that I had purchased at about that time. He was worried that DC was going to reset their comics like Marvel just did.  The staff at DC reassured that kid: "That is never going to happen!!!!"  I wish I could find that letter/response/comic.  Like I said, I have lots and lots of comics.)

Edited February 20, 2016 by Twilight Man

[Danny Franks]

Reboot already? I mean, the New 52 sucked horrifically, and reduced my reading list of DC from six or seven to... well, to none, but to throw it all out so soon? It just shows how terrible those in charge at that company have been in planning and in understanding the wishes of their fanbase.

 

If they actually restored most of the stuff they threw away, I might think about picking up something like Nightwing again.

[starri]

See, Nightwing feels like a huge step backward to me.  Grayson was one of the few things about the New 52 that totally worked.

 

Now, if the new status quo somehow has the awesome version of Helena Bertinelli back as Huntress, I might be all over that.

[Danny Franks]

See, Nightwing feels like a huge step backward to me.  Grayson was one of the few things about the New 52 that totally worked.

 

Now, if the new status quo somehow has the awesome version of Helena Bertinelli back as Huntress, I might be all over that.

 

I read the first TPB of Grayson recently, and found it okay, but nothing special. It felt like a Bond pastiche. The problem that they had with Nightwing was that they would never let him be seen as being on Batman's level, even when he was Batman. Outside of the Teen Titans series, they never really used an adult Dick Grayson, with all his connections to the wider DC universe, to best effect. It always felt like a half-measure, somewhere or other. Until that last run of his pre-New 52 solo title, with Peter Tomasi on writing duties. But that was aborted because of DC's boneheaded plans.

 

Erasing Helena Bertinelli's Huntress was one of the things I'll never forgive DC for. She was such a great character, in stories like No Man's Land and the Nightwing & Huntress mini, and Birds of Prey, of course. But she fell prey to the fanboys in DC's offices, who clearly preferred the version of Huntress they read growing up.

 

Plus, I just find the idea that 17 of 32 titles are Batman-adjacent a little concerning.  I love Batman too, but that really seems to be putting all your eggs into one bat-shaped basket.

 

 

Only just noticed this bit. That's ridiculous. All the characters that DC have at their disposal, and they just make it all Batman, all the time. Like Marvel with Wolverine and Deadpool. They only need two Batman titles: Detective Comics and Batman. Then if they have Nightwing, Batgirl and one or two other Bat-family characters getting their own books, that's more than enough.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Danny Franks

[starri]

I read the first TPB of Grayson recently, and found it okay, but nothing special. It felt like a Bond pastiche. The problem that they had with Nightwing was that they would never let him be seen as being on Batman's level, even when he was Batman. Outside of the Teen Titans series, they never really used an adult Dick Grayson, with all his connections to the wider DC universe, to best effect. It always felt like a half-measure, somewhere or other. Until that last run of his pre-New 52 solo title, with Peter Tomasi on writing duties. But that was aborted because of DC's boneheaded plans.

I always wished they'd let Dick's turn as Batman go on for a little longer.  I'm not saying it should have been irrevocable, but it was something interesting, particularly his evolving relationship with Damian.  I haven't really been fond of the Mecha-Batman story, but it's at least been different, which is something this new initiative seems dead-set against.

 

I just don't get that at a time that Marvel is getting such good results from trying to experiment a little (who would have believed they'd get such good buzz from Doctor Strange and Vision solo?), DC is retreating.

 

 

Erasing Helena Bertinelli's Huntress was one of the things I'll never forgive DC for. She was such a great character, in stories like No Man's Land and the Nightwing & Huntress mini, and Birds of Prey, of course. But she fell prey to the fanboys in DC's offices, who clearly preferred the version of Huntress they read growing up.

My big three crimes against fans were Oracle, the Renee Montoya Question, and Helena.  I liked the Convergence minis more than I've probably liked anything in the entire New 52.  Helena Wayne was Huntress for not quite ten years. Helena Bertinelli was Huntress for more than twenty.  "Classic" character my ass.

 

There isn't a single Wildstorm character headlining a book, and only one Vertigo character.  So, what's the point of merging them?

[Morrigan2575]

Simone has already said Batgirl and the Birds of Prey isn't written by her.

Bummer, I was hoping she'd write the title

[starri]

Bummer, I was hoping she'd write the title

Wit that, and with Secret Six gone, I'm not sure if they're even going to keep her around.

 

I'm honestly a little concerned for the diversity of creative teams at this point.  Only 7 of the books have female leads (and when you consider that Wonder Woman and Batgirl are starring in two titles each, it's really more like 5), and only two people of color.  I'm not saying that comics need to have a quota, but DC was finally starting to do a good job with that, and it looks right now that it's back to square one.

[Danny Franks]

My big three crimes against fans were Oracle, the Renee Montoya Question, and Helena.  I liked the Convergence minis more than I've probably liked anything in the entire New 52.  Helena Wayne was Huntress for not quite ten years. Helena Bertinelli was Huntress for more than twenty.  "Classic" character my ass.

 

I also hated what they did with Starfire, and that they erased Donna Troy. Also wasn't wild about their treatment of Harley Quinn or Catwoman. Hmm... There's a trend emerging here. Oh yeah, DC completely ruined nearly all their female characters to try appealing to the 'horny teen boy' demographic. I knew there was something.

[starri]

I will say Starfire's solo series has generally been pretty fun (if not exceptional), and she was wearing slightly more clothes than normal.

 

I'm hoping some of the old continuity is going to involve Donna and Wally.  Wally seems more or less definite, but we've been promised his return being just over the horizon for I don't know how long.

[Dream Boy]

If I can get a retcon of murdering, sexual predator Amazons and Zeus as Wonder Woman's father, then all of this foolishness will have been worth it. lol 

 

I will say Starfire's solo series has generally been pretty fun (if not exceptional), and she was wearing slightly more clothes than normal.

 

 

I dig Starfire's solo too. While it's a different take than what we had initially seen of Nu52 Kori, I really liked her. 

[starri]

If I can get a retcon of murdering, sexual predator Amazons and Zeus as Wonder Woman's father, then all of this foolishness will have been worth it. lol 

I'm pretty sure they're keeping most of her current status quo.  Which is a shame.

 

Scott Snyder announced he's not returning to Batman after all this shakeup.

[Kip]

I've gotta say that the new 52 had pretty much killed my life time love for DC comics. Geoff Johns and Jim Lee have moved from most favorite creators to abusive exes, each project promises that this will be different this time (more like the good old days) and then more of the substandard same. The new costumes universally suck, and fan favorite characters have waited on the sidelines. The Convergence event broke me, and has got me to stop collecting the paper copies since then.

 

A reborn DCU would be welcome to me, but I want the best versions of these characters not just different. A more inclusive DCU is really their only hope of growing the market, and really the only hope of them not telling the same stories over again. 

[starri]

Here's most of the line-up.

 

The only thing that's even halfway exciting to me is that Greg Rucka is returning to Wonder Woman.  And will Nicola Scott as one of the artists.

 

Three whole books with female writers, and all three are books about women.  Because of course.

[Lantern7]

Don't know what's the bigger surprise for me . .  . no Gail Simone on any of the books, or Christopher Priest emerging from the cornfield to write Deathstroke.

[starri]

I'm just glad they keep finding thing for Scott Lobdell to do.  I'd hate for them to lose such a major talent.

 

If they're not going to go back to more of the pre-Flashpoint continuity, what's the point of all this?  And do we need two new characters with Superman's powers?

 

Although Helena Bertinelli is Huntress again, which, thank God.

Edited March 27, 2016 by starri

[millennium]

Only just noticed this bit. That's ridiculous. All the characters that DC have at their disposal, and they just make it all Batman, all the time. Like Marvel with Wolverine and Deadpool. They only need two Batman titles: Detective Comics and Batman. Then if they have Nightwing, Batgirl and one or two other Bat-family characters getting their own books, that's more than enough.

 

I just saw some of the art for the new Batman titles, the new Batman uniform,etc.   After 40 years of feeling connected to this character, I think I'm done.

[Lantern7]

Here are the June solicitations from DC. The trade paperbacks listed are interesting . . . including DC ELSEWORLDS: JUSTICE LEAGUE VOL. 1, which reprints Justice Riders, Elseworld's Finest: Supergirl/Batman (taking place in a world without Superman or Batman), and Titans: Scissors Paper Stone (Adam Warren's far-future take on the Teen Titans).

 

ETA: Should be noted that the "Rebirth" one-shot will run at 80 pages for $2.99. That's a bargain, right?

[MarkHB]

Just in time for Rebirth, DC gets itself a new logo!

 

As someone who grew up with the 72-2005 variants, it can't help but seem a bit familiar :) .

[starri]

Well, it's better than the most recent one.  That's not exactly high praise, but it's definitely better.

[starri]

So, a bunch of pages of Rebirth leaked.

And it turns out that Flashpoint happened because of THIS IS A MASSIVE SPOILER

Spoiler

DOCTOR MANHATTAN

The spoiler-free reviews say that it's very, very good and almost seems like an apology for the grimdark.  But that spoiler man.

[Lantern7]

I'm going to remain spoiler-free before getting the issue Tuesday night. Right now, the only title I'm thinking of picking up is Deathstroke.

[starri]

15 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I'm going to remain spoiler-free before getting the issue Tuesday night. Right now, the only title I'm thinking of picking up is Deathstroke.

You may want to stay off of social media then.

[Lantern7]

Not a problem. I'm curious as to how DC will double down on the insanity. Last year, for Free Comic Book Day, they were all, "Guess what?!? Everybody knows Clark Kent is Superman, and Jim Gordon pilots a mecha Batman suit!!"

[starri]

Oh, they managed.

[starri]

I did really like the issue, but I'm coming away from it even more confused than I was before.  They're not undoing Flashpoint, except for the things that they are.  It kind of reminds me of the New52, where nothing was in continuity any more except for the things Geoff Johns liked.

ETA:  There are teasers for a few of the new books in the back of the issue, and I have to say, with the exception of Greg Rucka and Nicola Scott on Wonder Woman, I'm really not feeling it.

Edited May 25, 2016 by starri

[Morrigan2575]

I haven't read but what I'm hearing pretty much matches, they undid what the fans hated and brought back things the fans have been demanding.

Question for those that have read or are familiar with DCs plan

Spoiler

I'm  hearing that they brought back GA/BC but did they keep Dinah Drake or is it Dinah Laurel Lance again?  Are they just meeting for the first time or so they have their previous history?

Edited May 25, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Lantern7]

Finally got it. Interesting swerve . . . it seems that TPTB want to win back fans of the old status quo. And then they throw in something that's bound to piss a lot of people off. Like trying to get a lightning bolt between the eyes without saying "SHAZAM!"

[Morrigan2575]

do tell? spill the beans please ?

[Lantern7]

Well, it would be a shame to not use the spoiler function.

Spoiler

Good news: Original Recipe Wally West is brought back to the DCU, saved from getting sucked into the Speed Force by Barry Allen. Also, Wally is dressed as Kid Flash for some reason. Bad news: DC is looking to tie Watchmen into their books, as Batman finds Comedian's blood-stained button in the Batcave.

[Morrigan2575]

oh yes, definitely should use the spoiler bar.

that's interesting, thanks.

[starri]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Finally got it. Interesting swerve . . . it seems that TPTB want to win back fans of the old status quo.

We've been promised that before.  Infinite Crisis was supposed to paper over a lot of Identity Crisis (which is a series I actually really liked), and then lead to Superboy-Prime punching Pantha's.

I just don't have a lot of faith in most of the current creative teams.  I'd love to be wrong, but unless they've actually learned the lessons about not micromanaging everything, it's going to end up being more of the same.

[Kromm]

Just read Rebirth.

Damnit if Johns didn't actually write a pretty good book there. 

Not sure if I love all (heck, most) of the teams on the upcoming books, but at least this is giving New 52 the middle finger goodbye it deserves. I can see they're keeping bits and pieces of it, but as least from the standpoint of the whole universe (vs. individual books or creative teams I'm having big doubts about), I've got some slim hope this won't suck.

On 3/26/2016 at 8:09 PM, starri said:

I'm just glad they keep finding thing for Scott Lobdell to do.  I'd hate for them to lose such a major talent.

Wait...

You're not being sarcastic?

[Kromm]

On 5/25/2016 at 6:35 AM, starri said:

There are teasers for a few of the new books in the back of the issue, and I have to say, with the exception of Greg Rucka and Nicola Scott on Wonder Woman, I'm really not feeling it.

I love that Rucka is back on WW, and Scott is the best artist for that character by a mile.

My only hesitation is that the "everything she knows and trusts will be taken from her" concept that's being teased is so rinse, wash, repeat of what's been done before with Wonder Woman. I really hope the execution is actually something fresh.

A few other general observations--nothing that isn't just on solicits so I'm not going to spoiler tag anything. I see that the new Supergirl concept is mostly just going to be aping the TV show... and I'm perfectly okay with that.  Green Arrow is going to be less aping it's TV show and doing more of a reset to classic Green Arrow/Black Canary books. Again, the proper direction. Aquaman doesn't have a TV show to dodge or ape, but also seems to be heading straight down it's classic path. Green Lantern is mostly sticking with its new characters, which is definitely the right decision for it. 

I will say that Teen Titans + Damien Wayne = Me Not Being Interested Even A Little. I'm so sick of this little shit, and I wish they'd just erased him from history.  Fucking up the Titans by using him? Meh.

Batgirl is seriously confusing me. A proxy Oracle is not something I'm sure I'm on board with.

Lois Lane as a version of Superwoman is an idea that really strikes a bad chord with me. I really hate that love interests can't just be left alone and get appropriated into heroes so often--it's a cliche now. The one sign of hope is Phil Jimenez. If Rucka wasn't doing Wonder Woman, I'd want Jiminez on it (Gail Simone seems to be totally done with DC... I wonder what the deal is there...), but Jiminez doing another female superhero isn't totally hopeless.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Kromm

[starri]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

You're not being sarcastic?

Oh, no.  There's nothing fresher than a bad photocopy of something I might have read at Marvel 20 years ago.

In all seriousness, I liked Generation X when I was fifteen too, but that was almost 25 years ago.

I don't mind Damian, but they continue to totally fuck Tim over.  Not only is he limited to Detective (albeit with Cassie and Stephanie), but they've also done the ultimate indignity and basically put him back in the classic Robin costume while Damian is still wearing it.

[Kromm]

Prediction: It may take years, maybe as many as 4 or 5, but eventually that kid of Lois & Clark's is dead meat.

Prediction: There are too many Earth Green Lanterns once again (a periodic problem). At some point, someone's going.

Prediction: Someone named Wally West is going to start going by an alternate name. Heck, someone codenamed Kid Flash also (in other words, both the real name and the hero name/costume is going to change for one of them).

Prediction: Wonder Woman's brother is probably going to turn out to be some lame twist. Even with the best WW writer behind the book, this just seems inherently iffy. I'm already supposing either he starts out a villain, or ENDS up one.

Prediction: Three Jokers is going to have some solution that leaves us in the dark even more than we already are. DC has to have seen the strong opinions that Joker only works because he's unknowable. If they ever had a strong answer defined for Three Jokers, they're going to deliberately leave a big loophole that erases the whole thing.

 
 

[starri]

On 6/1/2016 at 3:02 AM, Kromm said:

Prediction: Wonder Woman's brother is probably going to turn out to be some lame twist. Even with the best WW writer behind the book, this just seems inherently iffy. I'm already supposing either he starts out a villain, or ENDS up one.

From Wonder Woman: Rebirth, it appears that a large part of the story will have something to do with Diana's constantly-shifting backstory and what's true and what's a lie.  I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that Rucka is not a huge fan of the changes to her status quo, and will undo some or all of them.  He even gets her back into her pre-Flashpoint costume before the end of the book.

[Kromm]

They're playing very fast and loose in all of the books in terms of what's being reset vs. not.  For the most part, I've actually been impressed (the very opposite of how I reacted to the New 52 bullshit, little to none of which showed any sign of working in it's early issues, and barely getting better later on). 

The "differences" being the source of the plot isn't just in Wonder Woman, of course. Most of the books have some element of that. Wonder Woman is the only one where it goes all the way back to her origin though. I wonder if they're actually going to have a reason for that, or if it's just going to be another "because Doctor Manhattan says so" kind of thing, where it's never made clear why she'd get that special treatment. 

I honestly have no idea where they're going to land with most of this--which maybe even says it's kind of working. For example, Bat history is... bizarre... but they've drawn in the most dots so far to connect. They managed to bring back Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain without either having ever been Batgirl, which is interesting, and Tim Drake without being clear if he was ever Robin (or if he always had "Red" in front of it). They've made Batwoman, quite literally, Batman's cousin--an idea which actually shocked me and we shall see if it actually works. Clayface being a wanna-be good guy is actually the least of the changes. 

What they're trying with Superman seems to me to be an interesting idea, but one inherently designed to be done for a limited time and then discarded. With Wonder Woman and Batman I can kind of see the endgame already. Wonder Woman lands with either her original backstory restored, or a new one that's a hybrid of the two (she won't be left with the new 52 one no matter what). Batman's endgame centers around how much of the "missing ten years" winds up mattering (something which doesn't seem to matter much with some of the other characters). His whole extended cast, even those with their own books, fall in line like dominoes depending on if that ten years just winds up being a version of most of his classic history or not (giving him I guess 15 years as Batman total to play around with to explain tons of Robins, Batgirls, etc.). The downside being a mid to late 30s Batman, at youngest, but that was always fated if they had to reset that. I certainly have no idea how the Three Jokers junk fits into any of this, but I'm supposing that aspect has more to do with the total "Rebirth" than how things land with his cast. The only pieces of the Joker stuff that truly affects the extended cast is what did (or did not) happen to Jason Todd, and what did (or did not) happen to Barbara Gordon, if she was crippled and for how long (I think the new 52 version being some absurd "briefly", which also included her being Batgirl "briefly" for a time too before that). 

Concerning Superman, it just doesn't work long-term to make him into a male version of Power Girl. You know... the left over from another Universe that hangs around forever. Clearly they're having fun with that concept now, and it allows them a new take on Superboy too, but something's gotta give with this story sooner or later. "Clark Kent" being back suggests that it's the "other Superman", but perhaps depowered. Maybe. They only just suggested that, so who knows if that's really the case? The question is at the end of this how do they merge the two characters? (and let's not forget a spare Lois Lane is around too). While it seems like a fun story currently, I keep wondering how they expect to get out of this one without pissing people off about killing/eliminating someone. 

Flash (well... two Flashes, since it looks like pre-52 Wally is probably going back to a Flash uniform again) is traditionally the title with the most flexibility, and I guess that's going to continue. It's the only one with a history already so convoluted and twisty that you really COULD have two Flashes, two people named Wally, etc. I did notice that BARRY's origin, as it's being explained now, is actually heavily reflective of the TV show. They've simply tweaked it so that Thawne is still alive, but in Prison, Barry's Dad is for the moment still alive AND out of jail (makes you wonder if they plan to echo the show by rubbing him out during this event though), and I think we have to assume that Vibe has nothing to do with Barry Allen at this point, and Caitlin Snow is... what? Still just Killer Frost and not a doppleganger who isn't... (I have to admit I didn't read any of the 52 Flash, so I don't even know if Vibe was in those issues or not--or if Killer Frost is split into two alternates where one of them isn't a villain). Well... whatever. However much they do or don't reconcile this with the TV version, The Flash has the least problems of the major characters replanting itself into any endgame. Since... they've always done this.

Green Arrow seems to literally come down to if they simply recreate his relationship with Black Canary, or actually restore some or all of the history of it. I mean he does have a cast of "assistants" just like Batman, but there are less of them, and overall I think readers are probably less sensitive with Green Arrow to some possible endgame where it's slightly different. I don't think anyone's really going to miss Roy Harper's long but half-dubious history if half of it is left in the garbage can even after Rebirth is done. In terms of Ollie himself, what other major points need to be covered?  If he was once Mayor of his city? Who cares?

Green Lantern, through this whole thing, seemed just as ridiculous with how there was enough time to squeeze in all of those people as with Batman and all his Robins, but I think the book during new 52 just kind of ignored it. And my read of it's Rebirth issue seems to suggest it's STILL kind of ignoring it. They namecheck every single one of the human Green Lanterns in the Rebirth issue, and yet nobody ever suggests any challenge to all of them having their own long histories or a problem with that being in the 5-6 year period that's supposed to be there as the new 52 window. There's no suggestion at all that anyone in the GL Books is aware of a discrepancy, or that the books will deal at all with anyone analyzing such or that as a consequence anything will change in the end. The GL Rebirth is just setting up a new scenario for new(ish) characters, that's all.

[starri]

Whenever you notice something like that, Dr. Manhattan did it.

I guess I can appreciate what DC is trying to do here, was impressed by the actual Rebirth comic, and moderately-enthused on both Detective and Wonder Woman, but I'm afraid it's going to turn into the same old, same old in a year.

[Kromm]

56 minutes ago, starri said:

Whenever you notice something like that, Dr. Manhattan did it.

I guess I can appreciate what DC is trying to do here, was impressed by the actual Rebirth comic, and moderately-enthused on both Detective and Wonder Woman, but I'm afraid it's going to turn into the same old, same old in a year.

Aka "a Wizard did it", eh?

Which is fine. We don't need to know specifics. 

Since the process of resetting here HAS actually turned out fun temporary ideas that have actually taken advantage of 52's flaws, it's cool. But yeah. I'm worried where they go from here. Perhaps they reset almost 100% to the pre-new-52, with the only tweaks being status changes characters willingly stick to. I mean would Barbara Gordon want to willingly recripple herself, for example?  I doubt it. So the compounded resulting history winds up being something like... her period of recovery still happens, but after she really had a fairly long career of being both Batgirl and then Oracle. 

Or... does it?

I mean it's all well and good for a few tentpole characters to suddenly go back to being older, thus leaving them guestimated somewhere in their mid to late 30s. That's where you can fudge Superman and Batman and Hal Jordan at least, to account for all the events they need under their belts--most especially their successors even all existing. But if that's really at the cost of everyone being as much as a decade older?  Do they REALLY want that? Or do they simply want to make sure that fan favorite characters who they excluded the first time around in the lame 52 reboot are indeed back on the board in roles old fans accept? Does the history really matter, or just the approximate positioning? 

It makes me think stuff we've just seen like Stephanie Brown and Cassanda Cain being back, but never having been Batgirled is DC testing the waters. To see how readers accept this kind of reset, vs. the last attempt that excluded them. Ditto with Oliver Queen and Black Canary having a rebuilt relationship. Is it perhaps enough for a new continuity to recreate the same positioning between them, but leave the old history gone?  

It makes me think the true endgame here is not going to be to give those ten years back, period. But to try and keep them gone but with realignments they simply explain are part of some master plan from some Cosmic Entity (be it Doctor Manhattan, or some new competitor).  Thus, Wonder Woman could go back to her old origin, or some compounded one, for example, because does that really mean she, of all characters, really needs that ten extra years of lost time?  Probably not. 

Really the one set of characters that leaves out in the cold is Superman and Lois, and I guess this Superboy kid of theirs. Clearly they have to go to make any such solution work. As I said before, no long term "Power Girl" type solution really works here. You can address the old continuity existing via this specific event, but once the event is over, things have to go to a state where it stops being in everyone's face. 

Characters like Tim Drake are still going to feel a little weird as a result, because I don't have any clue how you do a half-reset with him. Five zillion Green Lanterns running around is still going to feel a bit unresolved too. But really what choice do they have?  You either add that mystery ten years back in for everyone, or you leave the pieces in place with the time gone, but situations reset to emulate the lost time. You can't go halfsies.

[Lantern7]

Didn't buy anything this week. I wanted to see the Rebirth titles, but the shop was sold out of the latest issues. Good sign for DC, right?

You know who should be brought back? Bart Allen. Turns out the "new52" Kid Flash had a radically different origin, and I'd like to see the knucklehead back in continuity. Shit, I'm convinced the Waid/Ramos run on Impulse could make for a fun anime.

Only title I'm eager to buy is Deathstroke. I keep imagining Priest starting issues with "THE STORY THUS FAR." Does the current title have a buttmonkey on par with Everett K. Ross?

ETA: Chris Sims reviews the new Detective Comics. My takeaway: the cast is G.I. Joe circa 1986, and Batwoman is Sgt. Slaughter. In the months again, keep an eye out for a villain made up of the DNA of Batman's rogues gallery. "THIS!!!!! I COMMAND!!!!!!"

[Kromm]

It's probably worth going Digital for the issues if you can't get physical, even if your tradition is physical, just because I think they're necessary to see to come up with a reasonable plan about which titles you actually want to continue buying. This isn't a case where you can wait for trade publication, IMO because it's really making a "now" kind of decision about if you're willing to give DC a new chance now, at this moment. So I'd argue Digital JUST for the Rebirth issues to make those decisions, then back to your normal. Or I suppose it's possible they'll do second reprints of the Rebirth issues. Although it sounds like they've already set a (bad) precedent that they may be charging more for reprints now (admittedly that main Rebirth Special was a lot of pages though--they were likely taking a loss on it being set with that lower price point in the first place).

I suppose in a way it's fortunate that Marvel's Civil War II is stinking the joint up so badly now. Makes any decisions easier in a situation where DC is finally (hopefully) really getting it's shit together again, after years of stinking so badly.  There must be some secret Illuminati plan that won't allow both publishers to be publishing good comics at the same time, or something like that. 

[millennium]

On 5/29/2016 at 1:01 AM, Kromm said:

I will say that Teen Titans + Damien Wayne = Me Not Being Interested Even A Little. I'm so sick of this little shit, and I wish they'd just erased him from history. 

^This, This and THIS.

[Lantern7]

I don't have an opinion on Damien. He was kinda cute in his appearance in Gotham Academy. Maps would be a perfect sidekick for a sidekick.

[millennium]

On 6/9/2016 at 8:49 PM, Lantern7 said:

ETA: Chris Sims reviews the new Detective Comics. My takeaway: the cast is G.I. Joe circa 1986, and Batwoman is Sgt. Slaughter. In the months again, keep an eye out for a villain made up of the DNA of Batman's rogues gallery. "THIS!!!!! I COMMAND!!!!!!"

Not liking this at all.   IMHO, Batman has always been at his best when he flies solo.   Fucking DC and the "team" theme.   Bad enough they've polluted the TV Flash and Green Arrow with this bullshit, now it's carrying over into comics too? 

[Kromm]

On 6/10/2016 at 9:36 PM, millennium said:

Not liking this at all.   IMHO, Batman has always been at his best when he flies solo.   Fucking DC and the "team" theme.   Bad enough they've polluted the TV Flash and Green Arrow with this bullshit, now it's carrying over into comics too? 

I can see that POV and understand it. On the other hand, DC has had a long tradition now of using the Detective and Batman books very differently, so I'm not shocked at this. Batman is going to be the solo Batman, I'm sure. So if you just concentrate on that one book, you'll likely get the approach you want.

Of course, perhaps it would be better, for example, if both were solo books, but Batman was the superhero book, and Detective the street level stuff. They've done that in the past. Heck, I think they also did something like that with a third book being more like Supernatural stories (was it "Tales of the Batman"? "Shadow of the Bat", "Batman: Legends of The Dark Knight" or maybe ALL of them at different times... I forget...)

Edited June 12, 2016 by Kromm