S02.E10: What Happened To You, Annalise?

[Tara Ariano]

Annalise's road to recovery won't be easy as the Keating 5 deal with the aftermath of the night she was shot.

[TomGirl]

So, I know it's too early this comment on tonight's show, but can someone briefly remind me of where things left off? I know Annelise was shot, but that's about all I remember!

[helenamonster]

Wes shot Annalise because she provoked him; she only wanted to be shot in the leg but she went a step too far by bringing up Rebecca so he went for something more life-threatening. He was about to shoot her again when she called him Christophe, triggering a flashback that implies that Annalise and Eve have something to do with the death of Wes's (real name Christophe) mother.

 

Frank had kidnapped and drugged Catherine (who is in some kind of cahoots with Philip) and dumped her in the same spot where he buried Rebecca (something tells me this is going to come back to bite them; perhaps when they find Catherine a police dog or something will smell Rebecca and they'll start digging). Oh, and he made sure to go to the hospital and get some of Annalise's blood on Catherine's clothing so that they could frame Catherine for shooting Annalise.

 

Caleb is hiding out at Michaela's apartment.

 

Bonnie and Asher go to the police station and Asher is going to make some kind of statement, presumably to throw the police off the correct trail.

 

That's about all I can remember, a lot of things are fuzzy for me as well. Someone feel free to fill in the gaps or correct me!

[muessigkeit]

Asher's dad killed himself because information about him covering up Tiffany's rape at Trotter Lake leaked to the press (Annalise gave the information to a prosecutor to get Sinclair off her back, but Asher thinks Sinclair leaked it.) When Sinclair taunted him about his father being a horrible man, Asher impulsively ran her over with his car. Afterwards he was in shock and called Bonnie for help. Bonnie feared that if she let Asher call the police, he would break down and tell them everything he "knew" about Sam's death (she had lied to him that she killed Sam when he tried to rape her in the hope that Asher would protect her out of love. Asher though, still wanted to make a deal with Sinclair and only reconsidered when Annalise informed him that Bonnie had been sexually abused by her father as a child; Bonnie was pissed when she found out about that.) So Bonnie called Annalise to ask her what she should do.

 

Annalise knew that Nate would be the first suspect in Sinclair's murder because the two of them were very publicly at odds. She thought up a plan to frame Catherine for the murder of Sinclair (Catherine is no longer Annalise's client, but Caleb still is. Because Caleb found a gun in her atelier and Philip owns one of Catherine's paintings, they think she might have killed her parents with the help Philip without Caleb's knowledge.)

 

Annalise told Bonnie to bring Sinclair's body to the mansion. Then she told Caleb that she would try to talk to Catherine and send him away (he went to wait in Michaela's apartment since the two of them slept together.) When Asher and Bonnie arrived with Sinclair's body (in the trunk of Sinclair's car), Annalise enlisted the help of the K5 to enact her plan. When Connor refused, she revealed to Asher that the Murder Quartet were the ones who killed Sam (so now that he knew their secret and could sell them out, they had to help him.) While Connor, Michaela, Bonnie and Asher brought the body up to the balcony to throw it down and Wes and Laurel wiped down Sinclair's car (to get rid of Nate's and Bonnie's fingerprints), Annalise made a few calls. She left messages on Sinclair's and Catherine's phones urging them come see her at the mansion, then called Frank  and instructed him to kidnap and drug Catherine with sleeping pills in order to frame her. When Wes overheard Annalise explaining to Frank that she did all of this to protect Nate from being suspected, he called Nate and asked him to come and talk Annalise out of it.

 

After Bonnie took the still traumatized Asher away, Annalise explained the second half of her plan to the Murder Quartet: to make it look like Catherine went on a rampage after being confronted by Sinclair and Annalise, she wanted one of the them to shoot her in the leg (she called an ambulance pretending to be shot, saying Catherine shot her.) The MQ freaked out and didn't want to do it. Connor and Michaela ran out of the room. Laurel and Wes wanted to leave too (with the gun to prevent Annalise from shooting herself), but then Annalise revealed that Rebecca had been dead the whole time, taunting Wes with the fact that she lied to him over and over. This prompted Wes to shoot Annalise in the stomach. He even wanted to shoot her again, but then Annalise kept repeating the name "Christophe."

 

Flashback to 10 years earlier: A young Wes, then called Christophe is being interrogated by a woman (an FBI agent?) about finding his mother who committed suicide. Eve and Annalise are watching from behind a two-way mirror and Eve asks: "What did we do?"

 

Flashforwards not yet shown: Frank putting on a show in the hospital, bringing Catherine into the woods and Catherine being found by the police. Asher making a statement to the police. Connor going back inside to Annalise. The MQ being picked up by Nate and Michaela telling Caleb "she's [Catherine] fine."

 

Other more or less important things that happened: Philip wanted to meet Catherine that night, but couldn't find her at the motel (because Frank kidnapped her,) so he went to the mansion. We saw him sitting somewhere outside in his car (not sure how far away from the action going on inside; it's a big estate.) Even though Bonnie helped Asher with Sinclair's body, they're still broken up, because she found out about Trotter Lake; Nate and Annalise reconnected after he blamed her for keeping him from spending time with his dying wife by framing him for murder; Connor and Oliver and Frank and Laurel are still together.

[nutty1]

Wow, thank you. I really needed that or I would have been lost!!

[TomGirl]

Thanks, guys, you're the best!

[WhitneyWhit]

So let's see, Sam is dead, because of Wes, Connor, Laurel and Michaela are accessories to murder, because of Wes, Annie nearly died, because of Wes, a woman may end up in prison because of a crime she didn't commit, because of Wes, another man may end up in prison for a crime he didn't commit, because of Wes, Rebecca is dead, because of Wes, and he walks around moping and angsty, yet doesn't do a thing to take responsibility. Can the next mystery be "Who killed Wes" and when the killer is revealed, they receive rubies and rare canary diamonds?

 

And Annie has lost her shit.

[wanderingstar]

Annalise's Flashback Braids give me life!

 

I'm glad we now know for sure that Wes is not Annalise's son.

 

Can't believe Laurel said she shot Annalise.

 

I still love Annalise/Wes scenes.

 

Annalise was pregnant - and very far along it looks like - when she met Wes and his mom. Interesting.

[SimoneS]

Strong episode to start the second half of the season. I never thought that Annalise was Wes' mother. It always seemed like guilt motivated her determination to protect him. I thought the actor who played Wes was very good in this episode. He sold the despondency of depression. Since I hate Laurel with Frank, I am hoping this new found affection that she has for Wes leads to a romance.

 

I really feel for Asher. He is so lost, desperately wanting to believe that his father did not kill himself. I like that he is spending time with Connor and Oliver who are still an adorable couple.

 

I hope that Caleb becomes a semi-regular and he and Michaela reunite. It is hard for him to believe, but it is clear that Catherine did conspire with Phillip to kill their parents. He is lucky Annalise found a way for her to only do five years.

[ShadowSixx]

IDK if they're trying to do a redemption arc for Wes but he still grates my nerves. Maybe that will be the end of the series, Wes' death.

 

Is Frank now trying to audition to be on Top Chef? I prefer sneaky, underhanded Frank over Top Chef Frank and he needs to get away from Laurel because the two are beyond boring together. I know they have to flesh out Frank's character but please more underhanded Frank and less cooking Frank.

 

Oliver is so adorable.

 

I love when VD does scenes with barely no make up and with her real hair. I did love seeing her with the braids in the flashbacks.

 

Next week looks to be really good.

[ForeverAlone]

Watching this episode, I realize that as much as I love watching these characters and would likely follow them anywhere, they really are terrible people. Except for Oliver of course, and may he remain adorably innocent in perpetuity. I mean, they didn't really seem to have many qualms about blatantly lying and framing Catherine for a crime they knew she didn't commit. I can only hope the forensic team on this one isn't as stupid as they were with Lila, because yeah, Emily Sinclair's injuries are absolutely not consistent with a fall. SOMEONE should pay for her murder. It's just a question of who it would be (since it probably won't be Asher, unless he cracks and admits what he did). 

Edited February 12, 2016 by ForeverAlone

[wanderingstar]

I thought the actor who played Wes was very good in this episode. He sold the despondency of depression. Since I hate Laurel with Frank, I am hoping this new found affection that she has for Wes leads to a romance.

Agreed on all counts. I really like the Laurel/Wes dynamic.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[secnarf]

Hmm so pregnant Annalise met Christophe and his mother randomly one day? Methinks there is more to their meeting than that.

She was well past the stage where "miscarriage" is the term that would be used, so that's another thing to consider.

I wonder if she gave the baby to Christophe's mother, something happened due to her taking the baby, somehow AK and Eve got involved in whatever this was, and Christophe's mother killed herself.

Maybe little psychopath Christophe killed the baby, sending mom into a spiral of depression that ended in suicide.

So many possibilities.

 

Apparently Annalise has hallucinated this baby (her baby?) before, though. Bonnie dropping the blankets onto the floor was really well done.

The actor who plays young Christophe looks so much like young Alfred Enoch, it's crazy. And as we saw last episode, it helps that he can act really well. I'm looking forward to more flashbacks with him.

 

With the sounds at the end, I was all keyed up for a really dramatic cliffhanger ending and basically ready to jump out of my seat, but then we got a relatively low-key, really understated yet powerful ending. It's the first time in a long while (maybe ever?) that they have ended without the dramatic cliffhanger, which made it even more powerful.

 

Did anyone else find a bunch of the lines hilarious in this episode? "That's not her leg", "I finally got it to calm down", and several others that I can't remember off the top of my head. I don't know if it was the deadpan delivery or absurd situation or what, but I was laughing quite a bit.

Edited February 12, 2016 by secnarf

[represent]

OMG, I had so much shit I wanted to watch tonight live, but Viola won out.

I'm glad I didn't wait to watch.

When she sat down with that belly, I was like WTF?  

 

As in, where the hell is that baby? Cause Christoff was definitely running around in that playground.

 

Lastly, for now anyway, Annalise is beyond good; she's sitting on the stand damn near bleeding out, hallucinating, and still saving clients, LOL.

 

 

On another note, I died laughing, couldn't help it, when Oliver gave Asher the drink and it was his father's favorite drink.

 

 

Can't believe Laurel said she shot Annalise.

 

I think Laurel has the stuff that Annalise is made of.

Edited February 12, 2016 by represent

[Free]

So let's see, Sam is dead, because of Wes, Connor, Laurel and Michaela are accessories to murder, because of Wes, Annie nearly died, because of Wes, a woman may end up in prison because of a crime she didn't commit, because of Wes, another man may end up in prison for a crime he didn't commit, because of Wes, Rebecca is dead, because of Wes, and he walks around moping and angsty, yet doesn't do a thing to take responsibility. Can the next mystery be "Who killed Wes" and when the killer is revealed, they receive rubies and rare canary diamonds?

 

And Annie has lost her shit.

 

Well now that you mention it, it's weird that Wes seems to be at the center of it all.  I wouldn't be surprised if 1 of the Keating 5 was a murder mystery.

[Bean421]

That was the cutest damn baby on tv.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm extremely nervous about what happened to Annalise's pregnancy. She did tell Bonnie that she thought she'd have to smother "it" to make it stop crying. That's not something typical of a person taking two to three Vicodin. Yikes!

My mom noticed that Wes looks like he's gained a few pounds, and it looks good on him.

Still loving Bonnie and not getting her slavish devotion of Annalise. That woman just doesn't appreciate her and even blames her for hallucination baby's crying.

I'm not getting how Wes ruined Annalise. Are they just making up things as they go along? If he was somehow involved with the loss of her pregnancy, why the protective behavior? Did she somehow hallucinate he was her baby grown up? She yelled at him, tried to call him back, then saw the baby.

And just because we saw Annalise pregnant, that doesn't rule her out as Wes' mother. Not that I ever believed it.

[dirtypop90]

I wish they would switch up the teams a bit more. I would like to see wes/connor, wes/michaela, laurel/asher, anything new really. When michaela hugged wes I was pretty shocked because I'm pretty sure we've never seen them have any sort of friendly interaction. I like laurel/wes as friends but they have sibling chemistry to me. I could never see them rolling around in the sack. I must admit I've never been into the connor/michaela frenemies dynamic. And Asher doesnt have a close friendship with anyone. So I would love it if they would switch things up a bit.

 

Anyone thinking annalise maybe had a relationship with wes's mother? or sam did?

 

I really don't care about this caleb and catherine case. Hoping for a new one in the back half.

Edited February 12, 2016 by dirtypop90

[ShellsandCheese]

That baby at the end, who I am guessing was supposed to be Annalise's son, was freaking adorable!! That's all I got for now. I'll have to re-watch tomorrow on Hulu and digest & process everything. 

[Kira53]

Annalise is so devious she might have been pretending to be pregnant to get close to Wes's/Chistophe's mother in order to get information for a case. Christophe's mother trusts Analise and they form a close friendship. The mother comes to reveal information to Analise that she comes to regret. Analise uses that information in a court case and someone suffers. The mother falls into a deep depression because she trusted Analise and Analise betrayed her trust. Mother eventually kills herself because she feels she can't live with herself. Or she could have been killed and it was made to look like a suicide. Either way Analise and her girlfriend regret that Christophe finds the mother dead and is orphaned. That's my theory tonight.

The whole cast and guest stars were fantastic. Great acting. Viola is the bomb! Can't take my eyes off the screen even if I have no idea what is really happening between characters or why things are happening. Oh, and Analise is a mess. Even more than we knew before. But Viola made me believe it all. She is an actor without vanity.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Kira53

[FiveByFive]

Still loving Bonnie and not getting her slavish devotion of Annalise. That woman just doesn't appreciate her and even blames her for hallucination baby's crying.

 

 

I was sitting here thinking, "You know Annie would it kill you to say thank you to Bonnie even once? Even if you don't mean it because you're ... you?" Then I realized that Bonnie has known her for years now and knows exactly how she is. Bonnie also has quite a few issues of her own and while she began to break away from Annalise last season a bit, is still very attached to her.  They "need" one another at this point and neither is willing to admit it verbally but they both understand it.  As much as Annalise pretends she can't stand Bonnie, Bonnie is the first person she calls when she needs something ... well, something that doesn't involve murder in which case she'd call Frank.

 

Annalise/Bonnie is sort of like having a boss who is generally horrible to you but you know has a heart because once they got you a trip to Costa Rica because they know they can't live without you but will never actually say it.  

 

I'm not getting how Wes ruined Annalise. Are they just making up things as they go along?

 

 

Every bad thing that has happened on this show except for the initial murder is Wes' fault. From Annie's husband's murder to his obsession with Rebecca leading to her murder and Sinclair's murder. It is all Wes' fault.  Wes, a student who shouldn't have even have been in her class in the first place that she let in because she took pity on him because of something she did to his mother a decade ago. It is great that at least one character isn't stupid and recognizes that every bad thing on this show that involves the students and Annalise is because of Wes.

 

Her calling him back was probably her remembering that the situation he is in is probably tied to something she did years ago.  "Maybe if I hadn't have done that thing I did to his mama then he probably would have been raised right! Oops, I feel bad now. COME BACK!"

 

Annalise is so devious she might have been pretending to be pregnant to get close to Wes's/Chistophe's mother in order to get information for a case.

 

 

 

I was thinking it was too coincidental that the two just happened to meet then I thought about it and that wouldn't explain where "ghost baby" came from. It's kind of obvious that what Annie was seeing was related to the past but all mixed up in her head. So I do think Annalise was pregnant and it's a secret that only she and Bonnie seem to know. 

[PrincessTT]

I had to laugh when Wes was all shocked and "you think I'm going to hurt you?" to Annalise, the woman who was still recovering from Wes shooting her in the stomach. 

[krimimimi]

I had to laugh when Wes was all shocked and "you think I'm going to hurt you?" to Annalise, the woman who was still recovering from Wes shooting her in the stomach. 

And I liked that she picked up a statue to defend herself. Wes knows from experience that they can get the job done. Nice bit of parallelism.

[wanderingstar]

But Viola made me believe it all. She is an actor without vanity.

Yep - she could convince me of just about anything.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Neurochick]

I wonder in that flashback from 10 years before if Annalise was really pregnant or if it was a ruse to try to get close to Wes' mother.  Maybe Wes' mother was an accessory to murder or something.

[HalcyonDays]

Every bad thing that has happened on this show except for the initial murder is Wes' fault. From Annie's husband's murder to his obsession with Rebecca leading to her murder and Sinclair's murder.

 

advance note (my memory may have forgotten some detail)

 

Not necessarily. In Wes' view, he may see it exactly like this. He gets into school (shock and yeah!) has a chance to better his life. Meets a girl named Rebecca, they have a relationship. He falls in love. Then he gets into Annalise "special law group"  (yeah!), gets to be in Annalise inner circle, hopefully get a edge up, be successful in his career.

 

Then he finds out: Sam - Annalise's Husband - is having an affair with Rebecca's friend and Frank - Annalise's Fixer - killed Rebecca's friend (forget her name) and because of being in a close circle with Annalise, is drawn into the drama in the Keating house. Now remember how Annalise was trying to manipulate things with Rebecca, etc. Because of the drama, and Annalise dragging the Keating 5 into the mess, and had Sam strangling Rebecca, Wes tried to protect her by hitting him with the trophy. Unfortunately he killed him, thus leading to all the subsequent cover-ups.

 

Basically, Wes is saying if Annalise hadn't meddled back when he was a kid, got him into the school, been part of the Keating 5, and all of the drama surrounding Annalise and everyone, he wouldn't have been a murderer in the first place and none of this would have happened to him.

 

Everything after that though, is on the Keating 5 and Anna et all.

 

Not saying it's necessarily a correct view, but not completely wrong either.

 

Everything starts with Annalise.

[HollyG]

I wonder in that flashback from 10 years before if Annalise was really pregnant or if it was a ruse to try to get close to Wes' mother.  Maybe Wes' mother was an accessory to murder or something.

 

Not sure if she was pregnant when she met Wes's mother, but Annalise had to have been pregnant at some point. (or had an hysterical pregnancy.... probably not) There had to have been some sort of trauma surrounding a pregnancy for her to hallucinate a baby like that. And from what Bonnie said, this isn't the first time. Much more info is needed to determine when the pregnancy occurred and why Annalise happened to meet Wes's mom in the park that day. Annalise is so devious that we question her motives in everything she says or does. I just hope Sam wasn't having an affair with Wes's mother and that he's not Wes's father.

 

Side note - It seemed ridiculous that the prosecuting attorney would expect Annalise to be on the stand so soon after this injury and surgery and that the judge would agree.... even if the entire DA's office and every judge in Boston are sick of Annalise and her antics. 

 

Side note 2 - I had a friend who was under enormous stress due to illness in the family had this crazy dream. The stress was due to her having to take care of everyone physically & financially while  also working full time. One night she dreamt she put a coin into a soda machine and it started sending puppies down the 'can chute'.  Maybe there never was a real (or at least full term) baby in her life and that the ghost baby represents the stress of having to take care of everything/everyone.

Edited February 12, 2016 by HollyG

[ChuckWagon]

I really feel for Asher. He is so lost, desperately wanting to believe that his father did not kill himself. 

 

Do we know for fact he did kill himself?  This is after all, HTGAWM.  :)

 

Would anyone be surprised with a flashback where the camera pulls back to reveal Bonnie holding a gun on him to help him do the noble thing? We've seen these people stage some pretty crazy shit and we're just really getting started.

[Neurochick]

I thought it was interesting that Annalise hallucinated the woman she met in the park, giving her a baby to take care of, a baby that, at least to me, looked like Wes.  If Annalise was pregnant 10 years ago, who was the father?  Was she with Sam 10 years ago?

[secnarf]

I hated that hallucinating about a baby-shit. They didn't really need to spell out Annalise's maternal feelings for Wes.

I don't think that was the purpose of the baby-hallucinations. I think it has to do with the flashbacks we're seeing, and although Wes is a part of that, I don't think the point of those hallucinations is to show that Annalise has maternal feelings for Wes - and at this point, I'm not convinced she does. Although, based on her interactions with the hallucinated baby, perhaps that *is* Annalise being maternal, which is a bit unnerving.

[Primetimer]

She might be hallucinating here and there, but she's still stirring things up.

Read the story

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm not operating on a lot of sleep but I don't want to rule out Annalise as Wes's mom either.

 

I kept thinking this was Season 3 and waiting for the new mystery.  LOL and it was like, Annalise hallucinating.  

[krimimimi]

advance note (my memory may have forgotten some detail)

 

Not necessarily. In Wes' view, he may see it exactly like this. He gets into school (shock and yeah!) has a chance to better his life. Meets a girl named Rebecca, they have a relationship. He falls in love. Then he gets into Annalise "special law group"  (yeah!), gets to be in Annalise inner circle, hopefully get a edge up, be successful in his career.

 

Then he finds out: Sam - Annalise's Husband - is having an affair with Rebecca's friend and Frank - Annalise's Fixer - killed Rebecca's friend (forget her name) and because of being in a close circle with Annalise, is drawn into the drama in the Keating house. Now remember how Annalise was trying to manipulate things with Rebecca, etc. Because of the drama, and Annalise dragging the Keating 5 into the mess, and had Sam strangling Rebecca, Wes tried to protect her by hitting him with the trophy. Unfortunately he killed him, thus leading to all the subsequent cover-ups.

 

Basically, Wes is saying if Annalise hadn't meddled back when he was a kid, got him into the school, been part of the Keating 5, and all of the drama surrounding Annalise and everyone, he wouldn't have been a murderer in the first place and none of this would have happened to him.

 

Everything after that though, is on the Keating 5 and Anna et all.

 

Not saying it's necessarily a correct view, but not completely wrong either.

 

Everything starts with Annalise.

AFAIR, nobody knows that Frank killed Lila, or that Sam asked him to. (Which didn't make heaps of sense anyway, in as much as Sam was at the site of the murder darn close to the murder time, which was even harder to pinpoint (and which otherwise might have potentially cleared him) thanks to the body disposal method, and then didn't even proceed to get himself any kind of reasonable alibi, so why on earth would you schedule a hit? Whatevs, it's what flashbacks showed us happened, and we're to accept it.) But the characters don't know this, Wes in particular doesn't know this, and actually, I don't even think that they think they know for sure that Sam killed Lila. It was just a convenient narrative (that they are invested in believing) when trying to frame a story for Rebecca's innocence, particularly after Sam was dead, and maybe some of them might otherwise have been feeling (vaguely) guilty about that.

 

Sam' strangling Rebecca is totally down to her (and a bit Nate, too, to be fair), because she broke into his house and tried to steal what might have been evidence (except it wouldn't have been admissible thanks to method of procurement) while the guy was there, for goodness' sake. Even the seriously delusional Wes should be able to realize that, and the involvement of the rest of the murder 4 was entirely down to him. He asked for help, they responded, and things went very wrong from there. (Wow, I had forgotten how much I hated Wes and Rebecca...)

 

If he's blaming Annalise for getting him into school, he can just as easily blame the teachers writing him recommendations, or his parents for siring him. Or their parents for parenting them, or his great grandparents.... You get the drift. There is no harm (to the recipient) in getting them into school. There *is* harm in, I dunno, killing someone. Augh!

 

I agree that he probably does see at least some things the way you've sketched (and absolutely get that that doesn't mean you agree with him, so I'm not debating you, just impugning Wes's "character"), but his inability to see how his self indulgent demands and wants have turned the lives of all those around him very definitely for the worse thanks to decisions he has made is making him very difficult (for me) to stomach. (MMV, of course.) I am firmly of the camp that now want him dead, preferably yesterday.

 

On the upside, everything is now so horribly complicated that even without Wes as a linchpin, everyone is still firmly entangled. In fact, turning on one of their own, and then having to re-stabilize this mess should make for interesting viewing. Who starts hedging their bets and how? (Frank and Connor, with varying degrees of success.) Who works to glue things together and how? (Bonnie and Laurel for sure, probably by spreading blame around more evenly, the truth be damned.) Who sticks their head in the sand, camped firmly in denial? (Asher?)

 

Annalise is so devious that we question her motives in everything she says or does.

The cobbler effect is still in force. Boy do I enjoy this show.

Edited February 12, 2016 by krimimimi

[Glade]

The flashbacks didn't name the child that Analise and that woman were looking at in the playground, so I still think A could be Wes's mother.

[cali1981]

I may need to watch this one again. At some point, the crazyness level went so high that my eyes and then my brain glazed over.  I have to give the show runners/writers credit for giving us, possibly, the most reprehensible group of characters ever assembled on a TV show with no redeeming values whatsoever and not one "hero" and still making it entertaining. That is some trick.

[possibilities]

I realize that the law may say that anything goes if you are in the midst of committing a crime, but Sam really did not need to strangle Rebecca just because she was in his house and trying to steal evidence. Even if he had justification for restraining her, he was on top of her, she was clearly over-powered, and he could have just held her down, not tried to kill her.

 

Also, even though I enjoy him very much and don't think he's necessarily a "bad person"-- Oliver is not as innocent as it's fun to imagine him as being. He got involved in all of this by using his hacking skills to get around the rules of evidence, and he did it because he enjoyed the thrill and was "helping his boyfriend" (after a one night stand, if I recall correctly), which is not without its shady elements, and is a lot like what everyone else on the show has been up to.

 

I agree that Anna being forced to testify while bleeding was hard to believe. On TV, court cases always happen really fast, but in real life they take a long time and something like a gunshot wound you're still recovering from, moreover while you are actively bleeding from the abdomen, is probably plenty to get a little time before you have to testify. But I think Anna wanted to get the case thrown out. She didn't really want to convict Catherine. He goal was to protect Nate, herself, and her minions. Being delirious on the stand and babbling about Catherine's innocence and being an unreliable witness served her purpose quite well.

[secnarf]

The flashbacks didn't name the child that Analise and that woman were looking at in the playground, so I still think A could be Wes's mother.

Well, the boy was the same actor who played Christophe in the previous episode, so I don't think they needed to explicitly name him.

Whether or not the child was named, I don't think we can automatically say that Annalise is or isn't Wes' mother - I don't think the name of the child has any impact whatsoever on whether or not Annalise is Wes' mother.

Personally I think it's unlikely that she's his mother, but it's certainly not impossible.

 

I agree that Anna being forced to testify while bleeding was hard to believe. On TV, court cases always happen really fast, but in real life they take a long time and something like a gunshot wound you're still recovering from, moreover while you are actively bleeding from the abdomen, is probably plenty to get a little time before you have to testify. But I think Anna wanted to get the case thrown out. She didn't really want to convict Catherine. He goal was to protect Nate, herself, and her minions. Being delirious on the stand and babbling about Catherine's innocence and being an unreliable witness served her purpose quite well.

I wonder if that was her plan all along, or if she was salvaging the mess she had made while delirious.

[represent]

 

Annalise is so devious she might have been pretending to be pregnant to get close to Wes's/Chistophe's mother in order to get information for a case.

This doesn't make sense to me unless I don't buy her hallucinations of the baby to be real and I do.  

 

Or even find her hallucinating to be real, I'd have to believe that was an act and I don't.

 

I don't think that's just any baby, and I want to know what happened to it.

 

Not to mention, Bonnie seems to know about "the baby."

Edited February 12, 2016 by represent

[represent]

 

I'm extremely nervous about what happened to Annalise's pregnancy. She did tell Bonnie that she thought she'd have to smother "it" to make it stop crying.

Yeah, I thought about this and writers, this will not be something I can get past. Don't ruin this for me, Viola is must see tv for me, but no, just no...

Edited February 12, 2016 by represent

[Kira53]

This doesn't make sense to me unless I don't buy her hallucinations of the baby to be real and I do.

Or even find her hallucinating to be real, I'd have to believe that was an act and I don't.

I don't think that's just any baby, and I want to know what happened to it.

Not to mention, Bonnie seems to know about "the baby."

Hallucinations often don't make much sense (except on TV or in the movies). I speak as a clinical psychologist that has worked for decades with people that have hallucinations. Since this is a tv show the hallucinations will mean whatever the writers want it to mean. Bonnie knows about the delusions and baby hallucinations - Bonnie even has the medications on hand. Not sure if Bonnie knows about a real baby but she clearly knows about this particular hallucination.

btw, I don't know of any antipsychotic that can be hidden in ice cream or other food. If there was, a lot of people would be back on their Meds hidden in Ben and Jerry's by concerned family. No, people go off Meds and family can't do anything about it. And one dose isn't usually enough to clear up psychotic symptoms.

I love the show but a lot of it isn't realistic or make much sense. The acting is so good I just go with the entertainment value. The lawyers that are here on this forum make it clear so much of the narritave just could not happen at law school or in the court room. Like I said earlier devious Analise pretending to be pregnant is a good narritave. They do like to misdirect the audience. "Fake out!" How may times have the misdirected us? Earlier in this thread some did a great summary of the first part of the season. It was accurate but it didn't make a lot of sense when read as a complete narritave. Still I will be there for every episode while Viola chews up the scenery.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Kira53

[muessigkeit]

I don't think Bonnie gave her an antipsychotic. It was strongly implied that she gave her the same sleeping pills that Frank used to drug Catherine when he kidnapped her (and that Annalise wanted, because she contemplated giving them to Nate's wife.) I've seen people speculate that Bonnie drugged Annalise to keep her from testifying, but I think she might have been worried about what Annalise might have done in her mental state. So she figured if Annalise slept for a while, she would be safer than she was running around hallucinating things that weren't there.

Edited February 12, 2016 by muessigkeit

[krimimimi]

The flashbacks didn't name the child that Analise and that woman were looking at in the playground, so I still think A could be Wes's mother.

But I'm pretty sure they gave the date as 10 years earlier, which means *if* there is a baby in her womb, and it's not a fake out, that baby is definitely not Wes. Also, just because she was (possibly) pregnant 10 years ago doesn't mean she couldn't have borne a child 20 odd years ago that grew up to be Wes. The lady at the playground could well be an adoptive parent and not know Anna, but given the lady was a foreigner, it seems unlikely.

"Annalise is so devious she might have been pretending to be pregnant to get close to Wes's/Chistophe's mother in order to get information for a case."

This doesn't make sense to me unless I don't buy her hallucinations of the baby to be real and I do.

Or even find her hallucinating to be real, I'd have to believe that was an act and I don't.

I don't think that's just any baby, and I want to know what happened to it.

Not to mention, Bonnie seems to know about "the baby."

If she was faking a pregnancy for whatever reasons when she met Christophe's mom (we assume that's who she was speaking to?), it doesn't mean she had never actually been pregnant before, had a child who died or she gave up for adoption, or maybe even had adopted a child herself that she then lost. (The birth parents are given X weeks to reconsider in some states, for example.) For that matter, it even could be a baby sibling she lost that somehow left her traumatized, we just don't know. The hallucinations could well be "real" (as in she's actually having them), but not have anything to do with the time period when she met Wes' mom.

Even if that was an actual pregnancy that preceded whatever experiences that are the basis for the hallucinations, the flashbacks at best are to a time that came before those events, so not all too relevant.

So I don't think whether or not she was pregnant then matters in terms of why she was having hallucinations. As with all the characters, we don't really know all that much about her life. More details and cornerstones than for most, but that's still not a lot.

btw, I don't know of any antipsychotic that can be hidden in ice cream or other food. If there was, a lot of people would be back on their Meds hidden in Ben and Jerry's by concerned family. No, people go off Meds and family can't do anything about it. And one dose isn't usually enough to clear up psychotic symptoms.

I assumed the meds she was given were to make her sleep and not show up in court. Did we see the prescription bottle or know what they were supposed to be?

Also, even if she had some kind of condition, isn't it possible that just getting her more fit could make a difference to her mental state?

edit: or what muessigkeit said. :-)

Edited February 12, 2016 by krimimimi

[kristabell]

Thank you Nate; I blame Wes for it too. Who made the decision to make Wes so central to this show? Because I am more than ready for him to leave/be murdered/whatever gets him off my screen. He is by far the weakest member of the K5 and one of the weaker actors imo. I could stomach him a lot more if he ever actually did anything, instead of moping around as if he's the victim of the world's machinations. I'd much rather watch a show about the actual adults.

 

In fact, I would watch a show where Viola Davis and Liza Weil read the phone book. I love the dynamic between Annalise and Bonnie; and those two actresses deliver every time.

 

 

As for the baby, he is very clearly mixed up with Wes in Annalise's mind somehow; but, as was said up-thread, hallucinations and psychosis very rarely make strict sense. Timelines may be getting mixed up; her guilt over Wes' situation may be getting mixed up with whatever feelings she has about the baby and what happened there. I very much believe there was a baby at some point, and that that baby is not Wes. Whether the baby died, was stillborn, given up for adoption, etc, we don't know yet. But I'm very interested to find out. And Viola Davis' performances with the hallucinations, and especially that last scene, were phenomenal.

 

ETA: Only Annalise could be bleeding from popped stitches on a gunshot wound, and still show up everybody else in a courtroom while engineering a conspiracy.

Edited February 12, 2016 by kristabell

[Umbelina]

I am so lost, I liked this show during the first season, but right now I need a damn diagram, because apparently I've missed a great deal since then.

 

Hopefully I'll find one out there somewhere on the web, with handy photos, since all of their names are not longer solidly in my mind either.  Something like:

 

(photo) Carla killed Thomas (photo)

because

(photo) Lila knew Thomas was fucking Walter (photo) who was married to Lila's mother June (photo)

(photo) Bertram witnessed that was was Carla's real father, so he hired

(photo) Jimmy and (photo)Frank to help (photo) Gertrude who was sleeping with (photo) Carl, the illegitimate son of (photo) Paula who

saw them burying Thomas' body.

 

I appreciate the summations from you guys, but still, in a book, I could page back to what I'd missed, but here, right now, this show was confusing enough without hallucinations.  I want to like it again, but it feels like trying to catch up to Indy cars on a tricycle.  I'm left behind.  Hopefully I'll find that handy diagram and be able to rejoin this show.  I still don't know who actually killed her husband.

[krimimimi]

I still don't know who actually killed her husband.

As far as we know, it was Wes. There is technically wiggle room that Wes and the Murder 4 and Rebecca believe he did it, left the house, but Sam was just severly injured yet alive and then someone else (perhaps Annalise, if they ever wanted to revisit this to more evenly spread the guilt around, for example to avoid killing Wes off in the near future) came along and finished him off instead. But as far as we or the majority of the characters know, it was Wes.

[krimimimi]

I realize that the law may say that anything goes if you are in the midst of committing a crime, but Sam really did not need to strangle Rebecca just because she was in his house and trying to steal evidence. Even if he had justification for restraining her, he was on top of her, she was clearly over-powered, and he could have just held her down, not tried to kill her.

Not wrong, but to be fair, they were sort of a mob of five people, who had also more or less descended upon him, and even if it wasn't their intent, as a result of doing so, just knocked the poor guy downstairs. He'd just survived a very brutal fall from the floor above prior to attacking Rebecca. I think he might have been a bit out of sorts. Also, up against that many people and injured as he was, what chance did he have that restraining her would work?

[secnarf]

Hallucinations often don't make much sense (except on TV or in the movies). I speak as a clinical psychologist that has worked for decades with people that have hallucinations. Since this is a tv show the hallucinations will mean whatever the writers want it to mean. Bonnie knows about the delusions and baby hallucinations - Bonnie even has the medications on hand. Not sure if Bonnie knows about a real baby but she clearly knows about this particular hallucination.

btw, I don't know of any antipsychotic that can be hidden in ice cream or other food. If there was, a lot of people would be back on their Meds hidden in Ben and Jerry's by concerned family. No, people go off Meds and family can't do anything about it. And one dose isn't usually enough to clear up psychotic symptoms.

Bonnie doesn't have any medications "on hand" for Annalise except the Vicodin she gave her at the beginning.

The drug in the ice cream was the secobarbital that Annalise asked Frank to get. Bonnie's intention wasn't to stop the hallucinations, it was to knock Annalise out so she couldn't appear in court.

Of course, she gave no thought whatsoever to the idea that mixing hydrocodone and secobarbital in unknown/generous doses is a terrible idea.

 

The hallucinations could well be "real" (as in she's actually having them), but not have anything to do with the time period when she met Wes' mom.

Even if that was an actual pregnancy that preceded whatever experiences that are the basis for the hallucinations, the flashbacks at best are to a time that came before those events, so not all too relevant.

So I don't think whether or not she was pregnant then matters in terms of why she was having hallucinations. As with all the characters, we don't really know all that much about her life. More details and cornerstones than for most, but that's still not a lot.

I think the hallucinations are related to the flashbacks, if only because it makes the most sense in terms of storytelling, and the woman (Christophe/Wes' mother) shows up in both the hallucination and the flashbacks. I think that *if* the pregnancy was real, her baby is likely the baby in the hallucinations, but that's just a theory.

 

I wonder if the hallucinations stem back to some sort of post-partum psychosis, though it would be unusual for it to recur like this.

[blackwing]

Viola Davis IS this show. At this point, I watch mostly because of her. The rest of it is ridiculous, and sad to say, I am starting to lose interest. All of them have done so many stupid things by this point that it defies belief.

I have never liked Wes and I despise his status as Special Snowflake because it means this show will always to some extent be all about him.

And wow to that defence attorney. It's like the casting director said to a casting agency, "I need a battleaxe. Get me the ugliest woman you have and make sure she looks as unflattering as possible." She looked like a grown up Lil Orphan Annie after she consumed the entire body of Miss Hannigan.

Edited February 13, 2016 by blackwing

[ShadowSixx]

Also, even though I enjoy him very much and don't think he's necessarily a "bad person"-- Oliver is not as innocent as it's fun to imagine him as being. He got involved in all of this by using his hacking skills to get around the rules of evidence, and he did it because he enjoyed the thrill and was "helping his boyfriend" (after a one night stand, if I recall correctly), which is not without its shady elements, and is a lot like what everyone else on the show has been up to.

 

I think it's easy for mostly everyone to overlook Oliver's hacking into computer systems because it's the least offensive crime compared to the K5, Frank, Bonnie, and Anni. He didn't commit murder, doesn't know about any of the K5 being involved in the murder of Sam Keating, Lila, Rebecca, and Sinclair or the attempted murder of Anni.  K5 are involved in all those murders but if Oliver does find out, wonder what his reaction will be.

[wanderingstar]

I realize that the law may say that anything goes if you are in the midst of committing a crime, but Sam really did not need to strangle Rebecca just because she was in his house and trying to steal evidence.

Thank you!

Edited February 13, 2016 by Gillian Rosh