S03.E04: Watch The Throne

[Gabe Torres]

re: Bellamy's state of mind

 

I think that the real underlying thing for Bellamy relating to his Grounder allies was that initial step that Lexa took when she betrayed them all, intending that the Ark people would be wiped out by the Mountain Men.  She walked away after having deliberately made a deal that meant that all of the Arkers in Mount Weather would die, and that all the other Arkers would be hunted down and murdered too.  Bellamy had experienced what that would mean firsthand, and saw what the details of marrow extraction meant for his people, and Lexa's decision led directly to the need to kill all of Mount Weather to let the Arkers survive.  It also led directly to Clarke leaving.  My point is - Bellamy has very little reason to have any trust at all in the value of Lexa's word or her protection, or the alliance at all.  

 

Then, one of the people who's life he saved directly, who also saved his, who had all the reason in the world to never betray him, led directly to the deaths of another 49 people.  With the exception of Lincoln, every time Bellamy has trusted a Grounder in a life or death situation, his people have died.  Even Lincoln betrayed him in Mount Weather, fully expecting that Bellamy ... and every one else that they had gone there to save ... would die.

 

So, I understand where Bellamy would be coming from in hearing Pike's message. I think that everyone involved has shown that their real allegiance is fluid and determined entirely by the needs of the moment rather than any lasting loyalty.  

 

ETA: ... which would make that army outside their doors a threat, not a comfort.  A large group of trained fighters that could (and have, before) turn on them at any moment.   

 

This suggested mindset of Bellamy is the exact mindset of racists and xenophobic people. I grew up in a place that was dominated by white people, but crime was high among second generation immigrants youth in the country and the media was - and still probably is - all over it. What you are saying are exactly the same a lot of people being racist af think in that area and country. Some claim they have had only bad experiences with "my kind", so we are all bad and deserve to get treated badly. But in the case of the 100, there it means butchering down a bunch of innocents. Pike is preaching the same kind of fear-mongering and hatred I seen from the politicians in that country. If Bellamy truly believes these things his character is dead to me, preferably also on the actual show as well. I would understand if he was vulnerable and fell for Pike's manipulations, but I will never root for a character that actually believes shit like that. I really hope the writers don't have Bellamy actually truly believing what Pike says and make it more about falling into the wrong crowd.

[viajero]

So far I’m really enjoying Season 3.  It’s way too soon to judge whether it will match up to Season 2, but I think they made the right choice in delving so much into Grounder society and politics.  It not only provides needed context to the 100 universe, but it has allowed the further development of Lexa’s character.  Lexa and Clarke are what really set this show apart for me.

 

All this does not mean that I don’t have some problems with the Pike-Bellamy storyline.  It’s not that I think Bellamy’s actions are completely out of character.  He’s always been a horrible tactician; impulsive, emotional and prone to bad decisions.  But even though I suspect Infie is correct as to his motivation for backing Pike, the problem is that they rushed through that storyline so quickly that they haven’t shown us this.  Hopefully they'll make up for it in coming episodes.

 

But all in all, I am liking the direction the show is headed.  I’ll keep watching as long as is doesn’t return to what it was during the early part of Season 1, where it focused too much on relationships at the expense of the story.

[Coxfires]

Just the fact that everyone has to explain Bellamy's actions demonstrates that the SL is a fail, or at least how poor the execution is. There is a difference between having a character make bad choices and making him irreedemable

Besides, Arkers vs Grounders, I'm tired of it

It is So sad because I personnally can't enjoy the rest of the show (and in this case the great parts of the episode) because of how bad this whole Arkadia mess is.

If Bellamy gets withewashed I'll be furious, and if the characters dies (which seriously is the only option I can see), I'll be sad to have lost an otherwise well rounded, imperfect but still endearing character (and great actor) for the sake of such a poor storyline

I don't give a crap about Bellarke or Clexa, I loved the show for its intelligence and capacity to surprise me in a good way, but here I am seriously disappointed

[MissLucas]

Add me to the list of people disappointed by the Arkadia story and the character assassination for Bellamy.

 

This episode also brought along one of my pet peeves on tv - the idiotic palm-slicing for dramatic reasons (aka 'I'm too cool for blood poisoning'). I suffer from stupid winter skin that can result in bloody cracks in my palms. Even such tiny injuries can really hamper you in everyday life, they take ages to heal, are prone to infection because you constantly touch various surfaces and covering them isn't particularly easy because band-aids won't stick for long if you really have to work with your hands. And those are all problems encountered by someone who's not living in a post-apocalyptic hell-hole!

 

In short: You wanna dramatically spill your blood - cut your damn arm!

Edited February 15, 2016 by MissLucas

[RCharter]

I understand why Bellamy is in - This is exactly the kind of boneheaded thing he always does. Pike appears to just be nuts. But.. How did he win the vote? He explicitly ran on a platform of "lets stab our only allies in the back, despite the fact that we are horribly outnumbered". I mean, if the ballot had come back with a write-in vote for Clarke, that would make sense. But Pike? He might have the thirty surviving farm stationers in the bag, but.. what? 

They are all scared, they are all angry.....Pike feeds into that.  I think the fear and anger can spread like wildfire.

 

This suggested mindset of Bellamy is the exact mindset of racists and xenophobic people. I grew up in a place that was dominated by white people, but crime was high among second generation immigrants youth in the country and the media was - and still probably is - all over it. What you are saying are exactly the same a lot of people being racist af think in that area and country. Some claim they have had only bad experiences with "my kind", so we are all bad and deserve to get treated badly. But in the case of the 100, there it means butchering down a bunch of innocents. Pike is preaching the same kind of fear-mongering and hatred I seen from the politicians in that country. If Bellamy truly believes these things his character is dead to me, preferably also on the actual show as well. I would understand if he was vulnerable and fell for Pike's manipulations, but I will never root for a character that actually believes shit like that. I really hope the writers don't have Bellamy actually truly believing what Pike says and make it more about falling into the wrong crowd.

I think this is exactly the point the show is trying to make.  I'll step on a few toes here, and I don't mean to....but it sort of compares to the situation in America with Muslims.  There have been small factions that are violent and have "gone rogue" and because of that there are others whose response will be to assume that everyone who shares the skin tone or the religion must also be suspect or should be painted with the same brush.  Much like the situation on the show, people now will say that we must be more suspicious of all Muslims because its a security risk.  The same argument that Pike is making.  Much like Lincoln there are Muslims in our country that persevere and do the right thing, only to be constantly treated with scorn.  

 

I was watching a CNN documentary about this town in the midwest somewhere, and the Muslim community wanted to build a community center/mosque.  And oh my goodness, the town was just frothing at the mouth about the entire thing.  Could the Muslim community be trusted?  Who were they going to bring into the mosque from out of town?  Why was the center so big?  Was it going to be some terrorist camp?  And I assure you, every single one of them cited "public safety" as the reason they didn't want the mosque built.  Even though not a single one of the Muslims in their community gave any indication of radicalism or violence.

[marinw]

When Lexa killed the Brenda Strong Character, I was reminded of Katniss Everdeen in the final Hunger Games film, when she kills Coin instead of Snow.

[Coxfires]

I think this is exactly the point the show is trying to make.  I'll step on a few toes here, and I don't mean to....but it sort of compares to the situation in America with Muslims.  There have been small factions that are violent and have "gone rogue" and because of that there are others whose response will be to assume that everyone who shares the skin tone or the religion must also be suspect or should be painted with the same brush.  Much like the situation on the show, people now will say that we must be more suspicious of all Muslims because its a security risk.  The same argument that Pike is making.  Much like Lincoln there are Muslims in our country that persevere and do the right thing, only to be constantly treated with scorn.

 

 

I don't mind the 100 trying to show this mindset, I just feel like the execution is very very poor, rushed, and trashes a character beyond repair. Had they worked more on establishing Bellamy getting times and again betrayed, fool, deceived by Grounders, I'd get it.

But after knowing Lincoln (and Nyko and others) for 3 months of peace and discussions with Indra, after seeing first hand that the MW attack was led by a rogue faction of the Ice Nation and beeing there when Lexa got the Ice Nation arrested, this is where this sudden reversal makes no sense.

I like my characters when they trade grey morals and areas, not when they become mindless/gullible xenophobes overnight, which, until then, Bellamy never looked like.

And to Rothenberg who says that fans can't see their fav making mistakes: we are an audience that accepted that the main characters were capable of torturing someone, killing 300 Grounders, killing family dads (Bellamy / Lovejoy), letting a whole village die under a missile for strategic reasons and committing genocide. when this very audience tells you that you fucked up with one of your characters, then maybe should should consider that as a sign that you really, really, really missed the point.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Coxfires

[susan vance]

I agree with others who felt the turn of Bellamy's character was too quick, unearned, and possibly character-destroying. I can understand Bellamy being hurt, betrayed, and angry, but after all this time on the ground and seeing how few the Sky People are in number compared to the Grounders-how could it make any sense to take this kind of action? I understand that he's hot-headed, but he's not stupid, and the person closest to him in the world-his sister-has made herself part of the culture he's about to carry out this violence against. There are too many things that should have made him hesitate, and when he was still set on this course after having a night in jail to think about it-disappointed is too weak a word.

I generally love the actor but maybe part of it was the performance-Bellamy looked too present and thoughtful for me to believe he wasn't in his right mind (which is honestly the only way this action makes sense to me from a character standpoint, even if it is a bit of a retread of Finn's story from last year). I'm going to keep watching in the hopes that things turn in a way that makes this all seem truer to the character we've come to know.

All that said,I can see what the writers we're going for-I think they're trying to demonstrate how essential Clarke is to the continued survival of the Sky People. Without her guidance and strategic thinking, the wheels come off. The one thing the show has dive really well is set up that side of the story so I believe it-I believe Clarke is that capable and essential.

[jay741982]

I don't get the love for Clexa. This woman betrayed Clarke last season and Clarke is trusting her easily yet again. I'm sorry but if you betrayed me like lexa betrayed Clarke I definitely would not jump to trust or love that person WHO DOES THAT to someone they care about and if Clarke chooses Lexa and her group over her own people. Well she can Fuck off

Edited February 16, 2016 by jay741982

[Lion]

The way I see it is that the shipping for Clarke and Lexa isn't a political ship but a romantic one.  There is undeniably a significant amount of chemistry between the two and there is obviously that element of forbidden love.  They met as rivals and both of their groups have been antagonistic towards one another.  There's a Romea and Juliet vibe to it, except without the poison at the end.  If they could run away from the leadership and the politics, they'd have no reason to be at odds and would make an excellent romantic pairing and I think most of the shipping discussion focuses on this fact, with the knowledge that in the political sphere, things are quite different.

 

I don't think Clarke 100% trusts Lexa politically.  I don't even think she trusts her 50%.  I think Clarke sees that Skaikru being inducted as the 13th clan was best for them at the time, and that staying in Polis was the best way to keep an eye on things to know what's going on.  The Ice Nation problem has been solved but now that Pike and co are about to attack one of the allied clans, things are going to heat up.  Clarke now knows more about how the politics work, she knows who Lexa's hopeful successors are, and that the clan ambassadors are maybe not fully supportive of Lexa.  I'd imagine a betrayal from Clarke in the near future.  She's going to need to do the best thing for her people just like Lexa had to.

 

And even then, I'd still think that in their private romantic life, they'd make an excellent pair.  

[Riful]

I don't get the love for Clexa. This woman betrayed Clarke last season and Clarke is trusting her easily yet again. I'm sorry but if you betrayed me like Lexa betrayed Clarke I definitely would not jump to trust or love that person WHO DOES THAT to someone they care about and if Clarke chooses Lexa and her group over her own people. Well she can Fuck off

Clarke doesn't trust Lexa nor has really forgiven her. Clarke has forgiven and/or trusted other people that done horrible things before so yeah it might be incoming. Take for example Bellamy in S1. That took only a few days despite that he lied, manipulated and used the Delinquents, and actively worked against her to kill of everyone on the Ark including her mom. That forgiveness came from a mix of the hallucinations of her dad teaching about her forgiveness, and also because Clarke thought it was necessary to do for her people's odds at survival. The latter being a lot what drives a lot of Clarke's actions, but it is also an aspect of how she leads that means Clarke truly understands why Lexa did what she did, and why she knows there was no malicious intent behind it.

 

Also lets look at if Lexa turned down the deal. The hundreds of people on the inside? The MW guards would had killed them instead of letting them go. And then what? She sends in more of her warriors as canon fodder to be gunned down while slowly fighting their way through narrow tunnels? Just this episode "10 dedicated men" and MW weaponry was going to kill 300 people in an open field. Imagine if it was in a long ass tunnels. MW people also had knockout gas and C4, which the writers conveniently forgot because things had to look more dire. I honestly don't understand when people believe Lexa should throw away the lives of her people so carelessly. The Arkers contributed with about 6 guards despite there being hundreds of Arkers in Camp Jaha. Clarke understands the consequences of what would had happened if Lexa turned down the deal, and she isn't indifferent to them.

 

As explicitly pointed out in episode 3 of this season, Clarke made the exact same choice as Lexa. Her people above every-bodies else. So did Cage, so did Dante. Their people at the cost of others. Clarke chose to irradiate it all because she couldn't wait any longer as it risked Cage killing her mother. That was what tipped things for her, just like Bellamy that been protesting changed his mind when Octavia was at risk. Otherwise what could had stopped them from using the speaker system and tell the MW people that hey, we will radiate the floor if you don't stop killing our friends. If you surrender though, we will not kill yall and work out something? Odds are many MW people would had chosen to not die (like the ones with kids) and overthrown the people that opted to side with Cage. But to do such a thing, Abby and Octavia would surely had died, and also a handful of other Arkers important to our main characters.

 

I don't remember if it was Eliza or Rothenberg, but it was stated in an interview that it all depends on whether Clarke thinks she would had done the same thing, and its been stated that she would had. The betrayal hurt Clarke deeply, but she as a leader recognizes and understands why. She understands all too well, what it means to do something - even something terrible - for your people. For who does that to a person as you ask? A person that disregards their personal feelings and judge things for a more detached and pragmatic view.

 

Ways of leadership is something this show always have been exploring. Currently we got Pike and Bellamy being super emotional and letting that dictate their actions into mass murder, where as Clarke in Polis just in the previous episode went the way of burying her emotions in a bid to help secure her peoples safety.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Riful

[AnnaMayWong]

Fuck Jasper.

I am sick and tired of his extremely selfish self-pitying staggering.

Pike is gaoled unabashed and unchagrined. Aand, he is a dangerous ILL-INFORMED militant as are his Assholes-in-Arms.

Bellamy, Bellamy, Bellamy...that⬆ includes you, too. There you go, Once More into the (wrong) Breach.

So, a brazen haphazard scheme is afoot and, thus, the covenant shall be broken. Nay, obliterated.

Wow, Lexa❗(Although, shades of Hunger Games).

Must be all that Night Blood. Now, if we just knew both the mythology and truth of that ichor.

I'm wearied by Clarke. Her pensiveness and soldierIng melancholy is grating. I don't get the fascination. Yet, due credit to Clarke and ALL of the OTHER architects, I must emphatically say that the Mt. Weather Manoeuvre was THE feat of stratagem.

Although, Jaha, SEEMINGLY, is twisting into an ever tightening spool of lunacy, I don't care for The Show placing him into a descent of malignancy while Abby, Bellamy, and, especially, Kane rise to semi-touted status despite former unscrupulous and even deliberately murderous behaviors.

Grounders vs. Skaikru--THIS will end in anguished obligations and schemes of revenge. Again.

...

Edited February 16, 2016 by BookElitist

[AnnaMayWong]

I STILL don't understand how some of Skaikru became THAT adept at Grounder 'language' so quickly.

[Coxfires]

Riful , on the grand scheme of things, meaning that Clarke might have taken the same deal were she in Lexa's position, what you describe makes sense.

But this is overlooking the fact that what was confining the Mountain Men inside Mt Weather was the fact that they couldn't get out. In the long term, the deal was a bad move from Lexa's part, since she let the Arkers to be harvested from their bone marrow and thus was ready to allow the Mountain Men to get to the Ground. Considering the technology of the latters, and the history between Grounders and Mountain Men, nothing would further prevent them to not simply harvest the Grounders, but go at war against them and do far more damage. Considering what we know of Lexa (that she was ready to let a missile take apart one of her villages to win against Mt Weather in the end), I couldn't picture her being so short-sighted and not think about the long term repercussions of letting the Arkers in the hands of the Mt Men.

So what you say about the risks Lexa was taking by going along with Mt Weather's attack only apply if you keep a short sighted vision of the situation, and not when you consider the implications of the bone marrow treatment, where consequences would have been worse.

I never minded Lexa's deal from a betrayal point of view (I don't mind the characters being morally gray if I can understand where they come from), and think that Clarke could perfectly be capable of such betrayal to put her people first, but in this case, I found it OOC when we consider Lexa's state of mind and capacities for strategy, and also why I could buy why clarke wouldn't get why she made that deal.

But I get where the show was trying to go and what it wanted to picture. 

[marie]

Reading all the "Lexa is the best!" and "I don't think Bellamy can come back from this" reactions just makes me think the writers accomplished exactly what they set out to do. And it makes me really not want to watch anymore. I see strings being pulled that have more to do with fan faction pandering than organic story decisions.

[kdm07]

Reading all the "Lexa is the best!" and "I don't think Bellamy can come back from this" reactions just makes me think the writers accomplished exactly what they set out to do. And it makes me really not want to watch anymore. I see strings being pulled that have more to do with fan faction pandering than organic story decisions.

 

I see differently. I see people like myself (who aren't into shipping wars) questioning the integrity of the writing because from every angle, it makes no sense. Not only is the storyline stupid but from what I can gather, the writers are basically going to handwave this decision by Bellamy in order for him to get his redemption which...why would you do that? If they had slowed down a bit, showed the audience why Bellamy is making the decisions he is, maybe I'd be less frustrated but they didn't. It's not like they can't because they've done it before for almost every character including Bellamy himself. On top of that, they've shown a steady progression to redemption after a character has done something questionable whereas this time around it looks like they won't.

 

I would like to think that the writers can't be this short-sighted as to how that would go down with the general audience but the fact that they even went this route has definitely made me cautious about the season as a whole, especially if this kind of thoughtless writing bleeds into the Polis and COL stuff and I don't even care about the COL stuff. 

 

As for not watching the show again? I draw the line at Clarke. The minute they start writing her character without any lick of sense is when I'll stop watching the show. Everyone else is fair game to me tbh.

 

In short: do better writers, you're capable of it.

Edited February 18, 2016 by kdm07

[that one guy]

 

I'm just so disappointed in Bellamy's development.

He's always been a hothead, but when did he become stupid? I hate that.

 

Finally caught up on the show. I remain convinced that the Arc people are the badguys - ever since the pilot where they were spacing people for minor offenses, through the genocide and right up to voting to stab their only allies in the back. That's not a criticism of the show, I think it's brilliant. Lesser shows drop anvils about why one side is the side of goodness and light, great ones are more complicated.

 

For the most part, if there's a character her trying to do the right thing and make the world a better place, it's actually Lexa, who at the moment is the hero of the piece. BUT . . . if she hadn't abandoned the Sky People at the Mountain, the situation possibly could have been resolved without killing Maya and the rest of their allies, and it would be much easier to convince the Farm People that the alliance could be trusted. Hell, that's probably part of why Lexa's leadership was under threat - abandoning her allies was a dick move that makes the rest of her allies fear she's a coward or turncoat. Had she stayed and fought, the other Grounder tribes would be celebrating her as the one who vanquished the Mountain Men rather than the Wanheda. Her saving grace is that I think she realizes that was a bad call.

 

I enjoyed the arena scene, even though it was completely ripped off from Game of Thrones S5E9, to the point where I knew she was going to throw the spear into the stands because Jorah did the same thing. If you're gonna steal, steal from the best.

[Agent Dark]

Riful , on the grand scheme of things, meaning that Clarke might have taken the same deal were she in Lexa's position, what you describe makes sense.

But this is overlooking the fact that what was confining the Mountain Men inside Mt Weather was the fact that they couldn't get out. In the long term, the deal was a bad move from Lexa's part, since she let the Arkers to be harvested from their bone marrow and thus was ready to allow the Mountain Men to get to the Ground. Considering the technology of the latters, and the history between Grounders and Mountain Men, nothing would further prevent them to not simply harvest the Grounders, but go at war against them and do far more damage. Considering what we know of Lexa (that she was ready to let a missile take apart one of her villages to win against Mt Weather in the end), I couldn't picture her being so short-sighted and not think about the long term repercussions of letting the Arkers in the hands of the Mt Men.

So what you say about the risks Lexa was taking by going along with Mt Weather's attack only apply if you keep a short sighted vision of the situation, and not when you consider the implications of the bone marrow treatment, where consequences would have been worse.

I never minded Lexa's deal from a betrayal point of view (I don't mind the characters being morally gray if I can understand where they come from), and think that Clarke could perfectly be capable of such betrayal to put her people first, but in this case, I found it OOC when we consider Lexa's state of mind and capacities for strategy, and also why I could buy why clarke wouldn't get why she made that deal.

But I get where the show was trying to go and what it wanted to picture. 

I don't think Lexa's decision was bad at all.  Yes the Mountain Men couldn't get out of Mt Weather but neither could Lexa's forces get in.  The choice to send waves of warriors to die in choke points against machine gun emplacements inside Mt Weather is not a particularly good one.  Sure, neither is eventually letting the Mountain Men harden themselves against the radiation, but at least if the Mountain Men came out of Mt Weather the Grounders would have been fighting them on terms that suited the Grounders.  Bows, axes and swords work a lot better in the forests where the Grounders can use their skills to ambush and fight from the trees than they do when they're trying to assault choke points in narrow hallways defended by .50cal machine guns.

 

One of the first things we learn about Lexa is that she is a "visionary" - Kane says those exact words when he's released from imprisonment in Season 2.  I think that perhaps another Heda wouldn't have blinked twice at sending their army to die on the guns inside Mt Weather, to send them to their deaths in glorious battle - Blood for Blood.  But Lexa is not one to throw lives away pointlessly - even if they had of won against Mt Weather, the cost in Grounder Warriors would have been so high that it may well have been the end of her coalition.

[marie]

I see differently. I see people like myself (who aren't into shipping wars) questioning the integrity of the writing because from every angle, it makes no sense. Not only is the storyline stupid but from what I can gather, the writers are basically going to handwave this decision by Bellamy in order for him to get his redemption which...why would you do that? If they had slowed down a bit, showed the audience why Bellamy is making the decisions he is, maybe I'd be less frustrated but they didn't. It's not like they can't because they've done it before for almost every character including Bellamy himself. On top of that, they've shown a steady progression to redemption after a character has done something questionable whereas this time around it looks like they won't.

 

I would like to think that the writers can't be this short-sighted as to how that would go down with the general audience but the fact that they even went this route has definitely makes me cautious about the season as a whole, especially if this kind of thoughtless writing bleeds into the Polis and COL stuff and I don't even care about the COL stuff. 

 

As for not watching the show again? I draw the line at Clarke. The minute they start writing her character without any lick of sense is when I'll stop watching the show. Everyone else is fair game to me tbh.

 

In short: do better writers, you're capable of it.

 

That's my point though. I would say it makes no sense because the primary purpose of this storyline is to keep Clarke and Bellamy separated (something that has clearly been a driving force since last season) and to drop him out as romantic competition. This isn't just about "shipping". It's basic soap opera writing. When you want a couple to rise, it generally involves sinking other characters so options are killed off. And it's especially lacking in subtlety on this show when the writers have obsessively driven home that they have no intention of having Clarke and Bellamy as a couple and want the audience to move away from that idea. So no, to me it's not coincidental that when they've sounded frustrated by people continuing to ask about that possibility, they kill it off in the most brutal (and unearned) way possible. First, episode after episode of non-interaction and separation, then turning half the pairing into a villain.

 

My guess is Clarke and Lexa will be taking it to a non-subtextual level in the next episode or two, and I don't think Bellamy's downfall coinciding with that is accidental.

 

For people like me, who've never cared about either ship, it's just annoying that they're destroying Bellamy/Octavia, Bellamy/Kane, and Bellamy and Clarke as actual leaders who interact in order to prop up a ship.

[kdm07]

I'm not going buy that Bellamy or Octavia were ever going to be leaders or that they were setting them up that way. They're both too emotional and reckless to be put in charge of a lot of people. So I guess I'll just disagree with them doing this all so they can further a ship *shrug*

Edited February 17, 2016 by kdm07

[kieyra]

This is probably my favorite season so far, but I was basically always annoyed by Bellamy AND Octavia. I liked Clarke with the kid they made her kill last season, but only way back in season 1. Her story with Lexa is far more interesting than either one.

I don't mind the BSG/GoT stuff. It earns the show a lot of goodwill it wouldn't have gotten back when people were perceiving it as Hot Teens From Space. That said, yes, the us v them stuff gets tedious, but it's just not my favorite kind of story.

[Coxfires]

The choice to send waves of warriors to die in choke points against machine gun emplacements inside Mt Weather is not a particularly good one. Sure, neither is eventually letting the Mountain Men harden themselves against the radiation, but at least if the Mountain Men came out of Mt Weather the Grounders would have been fighting them on terms that suited the Grounders.  Bows, axes and swords work a lot better in the forests where the Grounders can use their skills to ambush and fight from the trees than they do when they're trying to assault choke points in narrow hallways defended by .50cal machine guns.

 

 

But that wasn't the plan, Lexa knew that Bellamy was gathering help from the inside and also recruiting his own Trojan horse, so that indeed the outsiders wouldn't have to face the Mountain Men on their own from the outside. 

Besides, the grounders might have axes and bows and such, but the Mountain Men were equipped with technology far more lethal as far as machine guns goes. They had also radars, and electrical power that all that prevented them from expanding was their confinement to Mt Weather facilities. Allowing them to get to the Ground was also allowing them to expand this power, and the Grounders initial advantage would have been in the long run overpowered

I still think that, considering Lexa, I would expect her to think more about long-term consequences on her people as a whole rather than the immediate prospect of her warriors getting killed by machine guns. But let's agree to disagree on that point.

[patchwork]

I firmly believe that with careful writing you can have characters say and do anything you want them to but you have to invest time and effort so it feels genuine. 

 

I think with a few more plot points and a tweak in his S3 behaviour then Bellamy killing the Grounders would feel like the next logical step for the character to take. The Grounders have been killing Bellamy's people from the start, they abandoned them at Mt. Weather. Then if he started this season with a distrustful attitude and Echo dropping hints that the clans were planning to move against Skikru as she leads him into yet another Grounder betrayal then him siding with Pike might look less than rushed writing.  

 

Clarke working with Lexa is one thing, unlike Bellamy mowing down Grounders this is believable move for her character, but getting together with her romantically is something else, something I find a lot less believable. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by patchwork

[Riful]

Coxfires I get your critique. I can see the Grounders being better at handling the MW people out in the forest using the warfare tactics they e.g. used on the Delinquents, but on the other hand it also meant they (the MW) lose a huge vulnerability. It is a criticism that is pretty fandomwide as well as people do perceive her to be someone that thinks more long term. When Jason was confronted with people saying it was short term, he said Lexa also got a peace deal out of it. Which sounds a bit like bs.... I can see both sides of the argument tbh, but overall I feel like the writers made a bit of a mess of it all in order to get the betrayal to happen, and put Clarke in a situation where she then commits genocide. They handled the fall out very well though, with Lexa feeling the consequences of her actions with her Coalition turning against her and so on. So I can roll with it.

 

One quick thing relating to your latest post. I never ever got the idea that the Grounders inside MW were any sort of army. We saw them all coming out, limping and leaning on each other. They were all unarmed, flimsy clothes so no armor, been bleed for weeks/months/maybe even years, and I doubt they been getting 3 good square meals a day. How could they do anything really? Besides severing as a short distraction to be gunned down? Which would go against the objective which was to save them.

 

marie The only people I can think you are indicating is being "fan pandered" to, is the Clarke/Lexa ship, which is quite weird considering Clarke is the lead and Lexa is her canon love interest. Exploring Clarke and Lexa is a continuation of what happened in S2, where there was the start of something, that got completely blown up due to Lexa's actions at MW.

 

Also I really object against this idea that the writers are doing this out of some petty ship based annoyances, and not because it is a network of stories they want to tell. You talk about the writers trying to drive the audience away from the idea of Bellamy and Clarke as a romantic couple, but seriously, have they ever been presented as truly an option to the audience in the various seasons?

 

Clarke was romantically tied with Finn for S1 and still getting over him in S2, and then she started having interest for Lexa, which is still on-going. The Bellarke fandom has a presence on the internet, partly fuelled from being the main couple in the books, but they have not been presented as a valid romantic couple on the show. On the show, Bellamy and Clarke were antagonists to each other for the first 8 or so episodes, and then started working together towards the end of S1. Then in S2 they were together for like 3 episodes? With the focus being on Finn, his actions and the fall out. Then they were separated again. For most audience members, I doubt they see some romantic love interest in Bellamy, particularly as Clarke has never given any such indication either.

 

Your perspective - no offence - is the one championed by hardcore Bellarke shippers. That Bellamy is being ruined for Clexa, and it puts my teeth on edge because it is typical anti-shipper vocab. It is also an idea that Bellamy possess any sort of hindrance to Clarke/Lexa, which he doesn't. It places him on a level that on the show he isn't on. I am fine if people wanting to read subtext into their interaction. Considering I am not straight I am intimately familiar with shipping subtext, and I don't begrudge anyone doing that. I however seriously side-eye the heteronormativity implied here, along side accusation of fanservice and the writers maliciously trying to ruin Bellamy for the F/F ship.

 

I asked previously in a post just what good would it had done Bellamy's character to have stayed in Polis? Would he had done any more past being Clarke's soldier, objecting but eventually doing what she says? It would had done very little for his character imo.

 

Currently? Bellamy has the most screen time out of all the characters on the show afaik. What the writers have done was poorly executed, people here have already given ideas that I think could had worked much better, but they did spend time on it. They do intend to redeem Bellamy and make those relationships be re-built. The idea it was done for Clarke/Lexa is absolutely bull to me. I been talking about Bellamy needing to stand on his own, and I stand by it. I find it the logical progression of his character. We know about how Clarke leads, how Kane leads, how Dante lead, Cage, Lexa and so on. But Bellamy? We can't really tell because in S1 didn't give us a proper insight as most of his actions in the beginning was fuelled by his own agenda. I feel like Clarke moved past him in S2, and for them to be on an equal level of understanding, Bellamy got to face some hard moral choices and work out a path of his own. To do that, he does need to be away from Clarke some of the time. Simply because she would take over if she was there. As we saw in this episode, and have in many others, Clarke is a fixer and won't stand by if she disagrees. They have also been re-united 2 times in 4 episodes so far and they will interact in the

interact together in the very next episode as well

. So it is not like there is some grand separation. Reason why either character been where they been at, makes logical sense from a character perspective imo. If you disagree I am more than curious to hear your thoughts because I do view Clarke in Polis healing while giving us Grounder Politics, and Bellamy getting to have his own story line in Arkadia, to be a reasonable split for these episodes we seen so far.

 

Bellamy will be ruining his relationship with Octavia and Kane by his actions because his character will be going through the wringer this season instead of being all Die Hard. Trying to place it on the continuation of the Clarke/Lexa relationship due to what? Writers wanting to burn down a ship mainly pushed by a group of online subtext shippers? Just no. And again, we all know he will be redeemed. JR

been talking all over the place about it,

and from the various statements coming from the writers, it is clear they don't consider his character ruined and feel very defensive about it/Bellamy.

 

patchwork I agree they could had made it all much more believable. Right now they got him falling from (what has pointed out) xenophobic rethoric, when he should know better. And if he doesn't, it is still a massive strategic blunder to take out a smaller army, which should be assumed would bring a much much larger army at your door steps.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Riful

[marie]

That Bellamy is being ruined for Clexa, and it puts my teeth on edge because it is typical anti-shipper vocab. It is also an idea that Bellamy possess any sort of hindrance to Clarke/Lexa, which he doesn't. It places him on a level that on the show he isn't on.

 

They literally took their male lead and had him massacre hundreds of innocent people in their sleep. I don't really feel it's much of a stretch to say that there are some writerly machinations going down in wanting to readjust a lot of opinions viewers have of the character. And I'm not saying "oooh, Bellarke was too threatening on the show and had to die". I'm saying the writers have been crystal clear that they don't intend to explore that ship. And yet the fanbase is still there and very loud. So yes, I do think trying to ease people away from rooting for a storyline they have no intentions of writing probably played a part in their decision to turn Bellamy back into a fairly moronic asshole, this time with a bigger body count.

[Coxfires]

Riful, I agree with you that there are two ways of seeing the Mt weather betrayal, and can see where Lexa's deal could be seen as right. Fundamentally, I didn't mind the betrayal, I just think the show didn't set it up that well, just like Bellamy's sudden decision to follow Pike.

In both those cases, I have the same issue: I can see where the writers want to drive the story and globally find their angles interesting, but deplore that they overlook character traits or past events (that they probably consider minor) in favor of shock value. In Lexa's case, I found that the deal wasn't taking into account her long-term strategy way of thinking that we had been shown before. For Bellamy, it requires to accept that he would forget about 3 months of peace spent alongside Indra, Lincoln, Nyko, and his sister.

[Jack Shaftoe]

They literally took their male lead and had him massacre hundreds of innocent people in their sleep. I don't really feel it's much of a stretch to say that there are some writerly machinations going down in wanting to readjust a lot of opinions viewers have of the character. And I'm not saying "oooh, Bellarke was too threatening on the show and had to die". I'm saying the writers have been crystal clear that they don't intend to explore that ship. And yet the fanbase is still there and very loud. So yes, I do think trying to ease people away from rooting for a storyline they have no intentions of writing probably played a part in their decision to turn Bellamy back into a fairly moronic asshole, this time with a bigger body count.

 

Sadly, there are plenty of shows where a character massacring innocent people has not stopped same character from being regarded as a great romantic hero worthy of the main protagonist's love. So if that's part of the rationale of the powers that be, it might well blow up in their faces.

 

Personally I think the writers' idea was to ratchet up the drama by having Bellamy "go dark", so to speak. The problem is they took so many shortcuts that even someone like me who has never liked Bellamy much is left wondering if that really was such a good idea.

 

 

I get why he wouldn't trust Lexa for shit. I 100% agree he has no reason to trust her whatsoever. But that also means he would believe she might kill Clarke and retaliate with full force after he butchers those 300 grounders no? What point is there to killing 300 people that are currently not actively doing any harm when killing them means you will bring a 10 times bigger army down on you? It is utterly idiotic on any tactical level. He isn't protecting anyone, he is putting them all in a much bigger danger than before. That is one of the most frustrating parts with this to me. Even from the view of trying to protect Arkadia, it makes zero sense to go kill those Grounders. He only endangers everyone even more. And he should be capable of seeing that. Sure he is often short sighted, but this is on a whole new level..

 

Bellamy's actions make sense if he believed the Grounders were about to do the same thing - a stab in the back. Preemptive strikes are a sound military move in certain situations. But yes, considering how obsessed with Clarke he can be, I am surprised he didn't go all "We can't do that, they will kill Clarke in retaliation".

 

I know many have said it already but I just have to say how great Roan vs Lexa was - the choreography, the tension, the twist in the end.

[AudienceofOne]

Count me in as believing Bellamy was playing Pike. I found the idea he was convinced by Pike's "arguments" to be a little inexplicable. Bellamy of all people knows there are different Grounder factions and groups. And his personal dislike of Lexa and anger that Clarke stayed in Polis shouldn't be enough for him to decide to massacre their allies in the middle of a war with the Ice Nation. Yes, Lexa betrayed them at Mount Weather but that betrayal didn't involve her actively attacking them. There's no reason they would think the Grounder army protecting them would suddenly turn around and wipe them out. Unless Grounder = BAD and where does that leave Lincoln and his sister and Indra? Especially when Indra is with the army he's planning to attack.

 

There's the fact that Bellamy used to be a bully. And there's the fact that he's secretly looking for a strong leader to support. And there's the fact that he's not that bright. But all of that is not enough for me.

 

I get why Pike wants him on his side. Everybody would want Bellamy because his support (and Clarke's) is what gives the adults authority over the kids. But I would have liked to have seen a slower and more nuanced shift of Bellamy to Pike's side.

[millennium]

Oh goody, another show with a populist asshole leading everybody who should know better into an unwinnable war.

 

Weren't Pike and the rest charged with treason?  How did he get on to the ballot in the first place?   Was Tom Zarek his campaign manager?

 

The Ark people have played fast and loose with the rules of their society from the very start, but this is the one time they choose to stand firm?  So that a bitter, genocidal warmonger can be voted leader?  

 

This show is fast on its way to ordinary.

[Solace247]

Have fun watcing this particular storyline, it only infuriates more and more as it unfolds. I share your grief over the ridiculousness of it even being allowed to take place, but what I want to know is, does the Exodus Charter just fo away with a council altogether? Like, how does coming down to earth change the Political system over from a council system to a solitary elected leader?

[STOPSHOUTING]

On 11 February 2016 at 0:09 PM, Riful said:

Random observations/stray thoughts

Being a candle maker must be the most secure job in Polis. There are lighted candles every damn where, even when its day time

LOL I have had the same thought.

[Lady Calypso]

You know, I was hoping that I was just joking last episode when I said that Bellamy would go and massacre Grounders. Now, it looks like he actually is going to. I really think they rushed too much into this Bellamy Joins Pike story. I get that they wanted a main character to side with Pike, but maybe choose someone who has actual issues with the Grounders. And maybe give him more of a reason that wasn't just him feeling sad about his girlfriend's death. Bellamy knows better than this; he's been in a complex relationship with the Grounders from the beginning; hell, his own sister is an honorary Grounder at this point. He's just going to turn on his own sister, then? That's what I find absolutely ridiculous about it.  I get it; he was betrayed by Echo and Lexa betrayed them earlier during Mt Weather, so he feels hurt and he's being manipulated by a guy who has only had negative experiences with the Grounders. Still, it doesn't excuse Bellamy's actions now and whatever future actions he takes with the Grounders that gets innocents killed.

I also find everyone chanting Pike for Chancellor as ridiculous. All of those people have been part of Kane's crew. They've seen the Grounders be helpful more than Pike. Maybe some are unsatisfied. But all of them believing in Pike's shitty speech about Us vs Them? Really? It just feels like contrived drama to get Pike in as Chancellor and to see him cause really shitty situations so by the end of the season, Kane saves them all and becomes Chancellor. Cool; we're just delaying the inevitable for drama. If they can subvert the tropes that I expect, then I'll reluctantly accept this storyline. But since Pike feels like a one note villain, I don't think I'll be lucky. At least Bellamy is shown more complexity with his choices. Pike is just a mustache-twirling villain. I really wouldn't be surprised if there's more to his hate for Grounders. 

Well, my hope for Jasper starting to move on was thwarted. Monty's right in finally walking away. If Jasper doesn't want to be helped, then he can't force him right now. Let him mope it out; his choices are his own now. Plus, Jasper took Finn's ashes...um, why? To get back at Clarke, I guess? Well, he's hurting Raven in the process by taking them. I didn't like Finn that much, but I know he's wrong in taking them. And now the ashes are scattered in the dirt. Well, I hope if he gathers them back up that he can get most of Finn back. How is he going to explain to Raven that he purposefully took the ashes, only to accidentally drop them all over and oops, there may be a mix of dirt and Finn back in the bottle? I also just realized that we didn't get to see Jasper finding out about Finn's death on screen.

I'm surprised they killed off Queen Nia that quickly; I thought they would have Brenda Strong for at least half the season. But, at the same time, I assume there will be consequences for Lexa's actions. I absolutely adore Lexa. I know she's made some very bad choices, but she's only been doing right by her people. She's a noble Commander who wants to protect her people at all costs, and I think that gives her a strength that we haven't seen in many leaders on this show. I may like her more than Clarke, and I've actually really loved Clarke this season. Plus, Alycia is absolutely gorgeous, especially during the fight with Roan. 

I will say if Lexa/Clarke don't work out, Clarke/Roan would make for an exceptional couple. They work well together, and he's very charismatic. I also am intrigued by the politics of the clans and the nations in general. 

I guess I should end this post with my hope that Pike gets eaten by Gorilla Grodd, the one that ripped off Major Byrne's arm last season. I have a feeling I won't be as lucky. 

[CooperTV]

24 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I will say if Lexa/Clarke don't work out, Clarke/Roan would make for an exceptional couple.

Ahaha, what can I say? [Spoilers!]

ETA: And Pike/Bellamy/Octavia/Lincoln/Grounders thing? It's going to get WORSE.

Edited September 16, 2017 by CooperTV