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S11.E14: Hostage


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Thanks for posting these, smoker. Two points of note: One, Tara ain't there this time and Two, Garcia is acting like an adult! Could we hope this is a good one? Please, oh please...

Normasm, I swear you must have read my mine. Because I was thinking the exact same thing.

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No, this episode is one of two (up to now) episodes with no Tara. 

 

I have high hopes for this episode. Virgil's episodes are usually hit or miss for me, but I find the subject matter fascinating, so I am hoping Virgil's writing is up to par.

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Overall, I liked this episode. I thought the subject matter was fascinating, and Virgil wrote a good episode. We knew from the spoilers how some of it would likely play out (e.g. Violet would have a child held at a separate location), but it was still an episode that focused more on psychology (of the victims in this case and not AS much as the perpetrator) than action (aside from Morgan's funny, exasperated comment when Tom was stupid enough to try and run away, only to be on the receiving end of some Chocolate Thunder justice),, and I can always support an episode like that. I thought there was a good balance of team and victims in this case, and there was very limited unsub. In fact, the vast majority of the scenes with victims and unsubs were with the team, which is how I prefer guest stars to be featured and not as much on their own. Outside of the viewers seeing the unsub in the first 10 minutes, we didn't really know more than the team and we discovered information at the time they did, which again is how I prefer the cases to go. I am glad Reid and JJ were used in the capacities they were by interfacing with the victims, since I think those two are very gentle with victims. It was also a good use of JJ in a non-ninja barbie capacity, which has been refreshingly minimal this season. Penelope was actually acting like a professional adult (can the writers please continue that), and she didn't just pluck information out of thin air, but it made sense how her computer came to the answers it did (e.g. the profiling the team did to determine the likely location of the other girls, or how the unsub was determined by using facial recognition software from the composite sketch). It was nice to see Hotch in a leader role, like he should be, and he was forceful when he needed to be with the unsub. I was glad there was the aside about the AUSA authorizing the deal (even though I would have been okay with Hotch lying about it to the unsub, since the FBI doesn't have the authority to make deals like that). It is those legal niceties that this show needs to emphasize more (like warrants and probable cause searches). I was not surprised at the ending in the slightest, since I called Sheila's mother killing Tom at the end, once I saw the way she looked at him for the first time.

 

Minor quibble, but I somehow doubt the hospital would allow Sheila's dead body to remain in the hospital bed as long as they did, but maybe not.

 

Like I said, I think this was a pretty good episode in its own right, and even more so when compared to the two mediocre episodes that preceded it. 

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I thought this was a good ep, thank goodness not much unsub on his own and I like how they caught him halfway through so we could have more time with the victims and the team questioning the perp.

 

I did think they pushed poor Amelia too hard very quickly with having her parents come in and her mother looking pissed off that she didn't remember them! I thought they might have bought some mementoes from her childhood rather than just the family photo that she'd already seen. And I didn't like her mother reaching to touch her or her father hugging her at the end (she's had the monster 'Daddy' pushing himself on her for years, she doesn't need two virtual strangers touching her without invitation) and I didn't like that there wasn't a trauma therapist with them to facilitate the reunion. That poor girl has been through years of torture, I think she needs more than JJ and Spencer quickly saying to her parents as they walk down the hall it might take her a bit of time to recover!

 

How's JJ's form taking Gina into the room where Sheila's mum is mourning her before letting the mother know she was doing that! I don't know why Hotch seemed ready to agree to a deal or didn't just lie about it, the guy didn't have a lawyer there to formalise anything. Was kind of glad the perp got shot but I would have liked him to suffer for the rest of his life in prison, death seemed too kind for him.

 

I wish the team would sit down when they talk to victims, it really bothers me when they stand over them when the vic is sitting, it's a threatening stance which is why police stand over perps - the CM team would know that they should be at the very least at the the vic's level. SVU do the same thing and it really annoys me. JJ did sit on the floor at the end with Amelia so that was good.

 

I really liked how they showed that the girls had no idea what the outside world was like - JJ showing Gina how to use the TV and Amelia asking what the iPad is. I thought the actor who played Gina was very good, she played traumatised but still trying to help with the investigation very well, especially when she was talking to JJ and Spence early on and she put her hand up to her face and her hand was just slightly trembling.

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The best thing about this episode?

I wasn't bored! The plot was interesting, the team got a good amount of screen time though I did kinda forget Rossi existed at some points hahaha.

The girls were good actresses. Kind of reminded me of the book The Cellar by Natasha Preston. The girls who were kidnapped had flower names in that book too.

Best episode to air since Entropy. The ones in between sucked. Also what's with these stupid breaks. I don't want to wait two weeks AGAIN. Blah.

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Through the entire episode I kept thinking, I hope that Amanda Berry, Michelle Knight, and Gina DeJesus aren't watching this!  Talk about reliving a real-life horror story.  This episode was a direct rip-off of the Ariel Castro 10-year nightmare.  They even used the name "Gina", and a 10-year captivity.  I thought that was nervy and unoriginal.

 

And the unsub?  When I first saw him, I actually said out loud "Arzt!"  Maybe I watched too much "Lost", but who can forget Arzt being blown up by dynamite and Hurley saying, "Dude, you've got Arzt all over you."

 

However, that being said, it was a fascinating episode.  Penelope as a mature forensic computer analyst?  Yowza - what took them so long?  JJ as a sympathetic, caring sympathizer instead of a warrior?  Yay!  The episode worked in so many ways.  Little nitpicks didn't ruin it for me.  But I can't get past the similarity to the horror in Cleveland.

 

 

Also what's with these stupid breaks. I don't want to wait two weeks AGAIN. Blah.

 

The 2-hour premier of a new Survivor season.  Blah indeed.

  • Love 6
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There was a lot to like about this one, all largely due the fact that it was all about ‘minds’, criminal and otherwise.  Virgil Williams gave us a great example of what can happen when one puts forth inquisitive writing---kudos to him. 

 

He took a well-known case, and then showed, but didn’t dwell on, the horror aspects of it.  Instead he asked questions:  What happened after?  What was it like for them?  For the families?  What if any of those women had brought a baby to term and he kept it?  And then he explored the answers to each of them. 

 

The acting was spot-on, across the board.  In my opinion, that was due to a combination of the talents of the actors and the fact that they were given good, cerebral material to work with. 

 

The team was used well.  It made sense that JJ took the lead on interacting with the traumatized young women, Hotch was in rare form with the sociopathic unsub, Garcia was toned down, it passed the Reid-meter. 

 

Things I truly loved:  The whole episode was good, in the classic style of CM.  It moved away from action/adventure and back to the show’s roots.  The ending took me by surprise, and I can’t remember the last time that’s happened with CM.  And then there was this line, from Morgan: “Ah, you gotta be kidding me, this guy.” Priceless.

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I wish the team would sit down when they talk to victims, it really bothers me when they stand over them when the vic is sitting, it's a threatening stance which is why police stand over perps - the CM team would know that they should be at the very least at the the vic's level. SVU do the same thing and it really annoys me. JJ did sit on the floor at the end with Amelia so that was good.

I really liked how they showed that the girls had no idea what the outside world was like - JJ showing Gina how to use the TV and Amelia asking what the iPad is. I thought the actor who played Gina was very good, she played traumatised but still trying to help with the investigation very well, especially when she was talking to JJ and Spence early on and she put her hand up to her face and her hand was just slightly trembling.

I'm glad someone else had a thought about the stance the team took during questioning, and about how nice it was to see JJ sitting on the floor with Amelia (although I was moderately horrified at the thought of sitting on a hospital floor and hope JJ's dry cleaner could autoclave her pants). Especially with men questioning a female, in light of what happened, it would be so easy for a "victim" to be threatened by their towering stances. As a nurse, I was taught that we should sit whenever possible, bc a patient lying in a bed in just a gown is very vulnerable. Imagining that a victim of a violent offense is even more so.

And I agree too about the acting, from everyone basically. That trembling hand was very effective. Overall, I thought this episode was very well-done. I've not been enamored of Virgil's episodes recently, so this was a pleasant surprise (I wanted to tweet him kudos, but bc he is apparently a baby, he blocked me on Twitter -- I once offered genuinely constructive criticism of a previous episode he had written with absolutely no malice, but he is apparently an everyone-gets-a-trophy type). And we darn near got ourselves a Hotchalanche. Always a plus in my book. Another thing I noticed: I thought it was moderately curious that Reid was sent in with JJ with interview the victim, seeing as how the perpetrator is a man and Reid is, obviously, a man (is he ever! But I digress...). But I noticed that Reid modulated his voice to a softer and higher pitch -- I'm doubting it was an accident. While he didn't have a lot of direct interaction, he also did not come off as a threat. So he was able to be present and observe and not be an obstacle to the investigation. Good job, CM.

Edited by Droogie
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Yeah, I had a few moments of "Unh-uh" with the interrogation and the parents. But I did think JJ was taking the lead primarily as a female, and Reid hung back as a sympathetic but not aggressive male. I thought the way they were at first with the victims was very organic and practical. Appreciated the lack of graphic depiction of what we all know was horror beyond what my mind would have been able to deal with.

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Appreciated the lack of graphic depiction of what we all know was horror beyond what my mind would have been able to deal with.

Right?? Because we know at least two of them were impregnated by the unsub. And all the implications of them calling him "Daddy." Oh, horrific. Very effective writing. At first I was all, "oh, yay, Unsub before the first break." But I was very pleasantly surprised by how everything progressed.

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I guess I'm going to have to try and put my dislike for JJ aside and view this episode more objectively. It saddens me deeply that this character has been damaged so much in my eyes that I can't even appreciate it when she is being used in a good way. And of course I have CBS, Erica Messer, and the CM writers to thank for that.

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I hear you, MMC. It's hard to put a lot of that damage aside, given the past. However, though JJ was used quite a bit in this episode, noticeably absent was 1) her past dismissive, eye-rolling attitude towards Reid, 2) her past "I'm a mother, and only a mother can..." behavior, and 3) her past running-around-with-gun-drawn-badass behavior. All in all, JJ 3.0 seems to be working out well.

 

Fingers crossed!

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I, too, was a bit peeved at first to see JJ take the lead as the empathetic all-knowing mother, but then it just made sense. Most likely the victim would feel more comfortable opening up to a woman rather than a man, even though Spencer is as threatening as a kitten on a silk pillow. And I liked the bits where JJ showed the victim how to use a remote and explained to her what a tablet is.

 

I also appreciated Penelope acting like a professional adult (finally!), the potential Hotchalanche (swoon, thud), the focus more on the victims and not the scuzball un-sub. I also appreciated the lack of gore other than the blood on the mattress. Blood is all I need to see to know what these young women went through.

 

However, I did think the mother shooting the unsub was a bit of a cop-out, though I understand why she did it. I think this episode could have lead to a very interesting several episode arc with this unsub brought to justice and how it affects the victims, the victims' families and the BAU. It also inspired a fan fiction idea that might lead to something interesting for Spencer. But I'm still playing that out in my lady brain.

Edited by Bookish Jen
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I hear you, MMC. It's hard to put a lot of that damage aside, given the past. However, though JJ was used quite a bit in this episode, noticeably absent was 1) her past dismissive, eye-rolling attitude towards Reid, 2) her past "I'm a mother, and only a mother can..." behavior, and 3) her past running-around-with-gun-drawn-badass behavior. All in all, JJ 3.0 seems to be working out well.

 

Fingers crossed!

I agree. I didn't mind JJ in this episode, although I felt that was partly due to my relief at not having super Agent Lewis there taking over every aspect of the case. I hadn't minded Lewis until recently when they started using her everywhere and ignoring the rest of the team. I object whenever they do that with ANY character. 

Edited by SSAHotchner
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I agree. I didn't mind JJ in this episode, although I felt that was partly due to my relief at not having super Agent Lewis there taking over every aspect of the case. I hadn't minded Lewis until recently when they started using her everywhere and ignoring the rest of the team. I object whenever they do that with ANY character. 

I know. The fact that she came in as a total veteran and expert on everything profiler was getting quite annoying. I realize she will probably be the new costar, and that's OK. Just don't make it the Tara Show, please.

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A point, before I begin- the UnSub, Michael Clark Thompson, made a huge deal about hoe he "saved" the kids from parents who didn't treat them well. Of course, we know the opposite was true- but wouldn't it have been interesting if it wasn't? What if those kids really were part of abusive homes and Thompson saved them, with Thompson actually being a nice, caring and loving parent? So then what do the authorities do? They can't send the kids back to their parents, but you also can't go easy on a kidnapper.

 

Oh well. Stuff like this is why I took up writing. :)

 

As for the episode itself- quite entertaining overall, really. I think it gained a lot of points because of the acting, especially when it came to Amelia Hawthorne's character, interestingly played by a one Amelia Rose Blair (from True Bloods). The writing was great with her character, but Blair was the one who really brought it home- you really did get a sense that she was an "overgrown eight year old", because she talked in very simple language and had that "excitable" tone in her voice that is common with kids her age. I thought it was wonderful.

 

Also gotta say I liked Morgan's tackle- perhaps it's, sadly, an allusion to him leaving ("oh, not one of these guys"), but at least they made the chase realistic. Did Thompson really think he was going to get away from Morgan? As for the broken wrist- that may have been contrived to allow him to be at the same hospital as Amelia, but it still made sense.

 

Thompson was also pretty good in this one. I liked how we saw his manipulation in action, with Hotch (who had no choice but to fall for it) and with Amelia (who rose to the occasion). I also did appreciate the mother of Shiela (I think) being the one who shot Thompson dead- I mean, his actions did kill her daughter. Extreme? Yeah it was, but at the same time I understood where she was coming from.

 

Finally- a note about "JJ 3.0": I always thought warmth was never AJ Cook's best characteristic, but in this episode she was flying with it. Perhaps because this time we weren't hit over the head with how much of a mother she is, with the writing just allowing her to be natural. The writing was inspired so Cook gave an inspired performance and it was fun. We need to see more of that.

 

Overall- B+. A win.

 

(Sorry that perhaps I'm not so much in depth today- bad case of the stomach flu and my landlord is being a dick about it)

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I know. The fact that she came in as a total veteran and expert on everything profiler was getting quite annoying. I realize she will probably be the new costar, and that's OK. Just don't make it the Tara Show, please.

Hmm I wonder why in the world this sounds SO FAMILIAR to me.

Anyways I have been reading you guys' reasonings as to why it made sense for JJ to have taken the lead like she did. And I really can't disagree with any of it,because it all sounded pretty logical to me.Unfortunately my immediate visceral reaction to her having done so was extremely negative.And I know that my reaction was due in part to them(CBS/CM) having had both misused as well as overused this character the last several seasons. But when I think about the episode "Awake" where both her and Lewis were misused and overused imo,simply because CBS/CM was pushing this stupid girl power agenda, I have to give kudos to Virgil because he did in fact used JJ in a much more sensible way.

Edited by MMC
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I didn't enjoy this episode as much as everyone else.  It was nice to have a more adult Garcia.  Although, the Garcia we usually have would have been perfect to talk to the kidnapped girls - "Look! I have this one of a kind My Little Pony.  I will let you play with it, if you tell me everything you remember about the disappearing place."

 

I thought it was all kinds of wrong to bring the parents in when the unsub had his meeting with Amelia.  It was wring to put Amelia through that.  Wrong to have the parents be int he same room with the monster.  Plus, from a less emotional perspective - You know that the unsub may be the only one who knows where the 2 little girls are, he says he will tell you where if he meets with Amelia first.  If the BAU is so well trained in behavior, they had to have known that there was a good chance that, if his meeting with Amelia didn't go well, he wouldn't tell them where the girls are.  And they had to have known that bringing in her parents during the meeting was going to increase the chances that the meeting wouldn't go well enough for he to hold up his end of the bargain.  

 

I wish they would have explained the rational behind why he took eight year old girls.  Yes, he wants to control every aspect of his life.  Yes, his mother died when he was young.  Yes, he father beat up (?) a prostitute and was married 5 times.  But why did he kidnap 8 year old girls.  And if the first girl worked out so well for him, why did kidnapped the other two.  This is the kind of info I expect to get from CM.  (Note: we have been watching early seasons of CSI shows lately and as I watched this episode, I kept thinking that they should have plenty of fingerprints and DNA to figure out who the unsub is and what the true names of the girls are).

 

As usual, it is the logistics/details that bug me the most.  He kidnapped Amelia when she was eight.  Later, he kidnapped Gina, when she was eight, then, later, he kidnapped Sheila, when she was eight.  He kidnapped Gina ten years ago.  Amelia gives birth twice.  The kids are kept at a separate house. They look to be around 6-8 years old.   Therefore, Gina was there it was before Amelia had kids, but Gina has no memory of Amelia being pregnant.  Plus, did he keep Amelia's kids at a separate location all their lives?  Why?  How?

 

I suppose it is possible that Amelia's kids were older, like 8-10 years old.  But this would mean that he kidnapped two kids while he had 2 babies around (well, 2 babies at a separate house).  Why would he do that?

  • Love 2
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I had kind of  mixed reaction to this episode.  I liked it, and they did make reference Ariel Castro, so that was a nice nod to reality.  But a couple of things really bugged - both probably kind of petty.  Usually I can go with the flow of Garcia's tracking skills, but I just could not get past her being able to dreg up a list of Tom's clients.  This is not some big corporation that would have a digital trail.  We saw no evidence that Tom had or used a computer, and he's a small business man who probably kept paper records, if he kept any at all.  So when she was able to bring up that list, it was more than I could wrap my head around.  The other thing that got me was we never (unless they said something and I missed it) got any clue what was going to happen with Gina.  (I think it was Gina - I'm getting a bit confused between Sheila and Gina, but I'm talking about the one who escaped.)  Anyway, we know she was kidnapped from a foster home, and she's now 18 with all the social skills and knowledge of an 8-year-old.  But we get zero information on what's going to happen to her.  She's too old for foster care - are they just going to dump this kid on the streets?  I had been hoping that Sheila's (the girl who died) mom or Amelia's parents would take her in, but I ended up actually being very concerned about that poor kid and angry at the writers for not telling us she wasn't going to be just turned loose to fend for herself.  :(

 

To Forever Alone - if my recent experiences are anything to go by, the hospital would in fact let the body stay there that long.  When my dad passed away, they told me to take as long as I needed.  In that case it was about 3 hours or so before I left the hospital.  When my mom passed away (different hospital/different state), they said the same thing.  I had two siblings who were trying to get there before mom passed.  It was about 7 hours before all arrived, and aside from coming in occasionally to see if we (my kids and husband were with me) needed anything and bringing us tea and crackers to eat while we waited, they left us alone and never once even asked so much as did we know how much longer we'd be.  And we stayed a couple of hours after everyone arrived.  So I had no trouble believing the hospital would let the mother stay as long as she liked, especially considering the circumstances. 

Edited by LadyMustang65
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Sorry for your experience LadyM. I, too have the experience that, after someone dies, it takes a while to transport it anywhere. They do leave the body in place until proper legal custody can be taken. For instance, if it had been a victim of violent crime, the body would have been taken in by the local legal authorities in whatever way the state set up. If it were a natural death or something like that, the wait would have been for notification or transport to the funeral home of choice, I think.

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I guess I'm going to have to try and put my dislike for JJ aside and view this episode more objectively. It saddens me deeply that this character has been damaged so much in my eyes that I can't even appreciate it when she is being used in a good way. And of course I have CBS, Erica Messer, and the CM writers to thank for that.

AMEN! I'm glad she's toned down, but I think, for me, it's "too little too late"

  • Love 2
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I enjoyed the episode, although I understand other reactions, Entropy was a boring episode to me, I guess it was due to hight expectations, anyway, last week episode was ok, it was entertaining, KV was kept in line so was JJ (I'm using the initials right, I think KV is guilty for García's disguises and histrionic behavior).

I did like they paid more attention to legal details, it was refreshing, they were the right number of profilers too, more good writing and less unnecessary team members, they were quite in character too.

 

there were some details I dislike of course xP

why they insisted with the parents so much? what about a therapist evaluating/helping her? why was Amelia the only one having babies? 

and the writers couldn't help it, JJ was the first one who thought about any possible children, it was well done, but it goes under my skin just the same because they're very seasoned profilers, actually, she's been doing this only for 4 and half years, Morgan and Reid more than a decade and Rossi and Hotch for several and any of them noticed those girls could have had a baby? I do agree with your opinions about the damage done to some characters, because AJ was ok and her character was well written, its sad.

Edited by smoker
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Actually, the reason "Daisy" died was she had a septic miscarriage, so Amelia wasn't the only one having babies, or, at least getting pregnant.

I didn't have too much problem with JJ being tuned into the pregnancy angle. From the beginning, she insisted there was a rape angle to this guy, and it follows, captivity + rape = more people. The one thing that was so very convenient is that both of Amelia's kids were girls. It's possible if a child was born a boy it might be killed or abandoned, but...

  • Love 3
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agree about it being well done in this episode.

 

however I'm so tired of the "do you have any children?" in any film and tv show, this line (and attitude) has become toxic (my opinion, of course), writers pimp that line so much (usually in bad scenes) it's just a cheapy emotional blackmail now.
Sadly, human beings can't be in two places at once and if you do a job, any job, you are not at home taking care of your children or family or whatever makes you happy in your free time; so I wouldn't feel any empathy for someone who it's trying make feel bad while I am neglecting my children/life to save theirs. And most importantly, it would be a slap in my professionalism.

 

there is a French film I watched time ago, a guy is being questioned by a police officer and the guy starts rambling about his son while the officer tries to do his job, the rambling doesn't work so the guy asks if he has any children, the officer answers stoically "I don't while I'm on watch". I just love it.

Edited by smoker
  • Love 4
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This episode was strangely good. There was a lot of actual profiling work done and nothing was over the top.

However. The ending really left me feeling... disappointed.

I don't feel sorry for the guy. But that was just SO similar to the ending of the episode 7x8 "Hope". I'm sure that everyone can sympathize with the mother in "The Hostage" too, even if we didn't see much of her. But I can't compare her to Monica Kingston. Monica was just way more believable, investive and explored, and we actually witnessed, in detail, the break down that led to her commiting the murder. I absolutely love "Hope" and seeing the storyline recycled this way, seeing Monica Kingston's storyline being re done and not living up to the original at all... it just feels distasteful to me. I always had a soft spot for that character and... Plus, "Hope" had Emily in it, so nostalgia... not the good kind.

I think that may be my biggest complaint in regards to season ten and, now, season eleven. Even when the episode is good and engaging, you can see that it is, in at least some ways, somehow recycled from the early episodes. Even "The Entropy", the best episode of this season by far, was pretty much a re do of "No Way Out Part One". Even those small details add up, not just the basic set up-in both episodes the unsubs have claimed over one hundred victims of different ages, races, genders etc. over the long period of time. That really annoys me. This episode too, parallels with "Hope". At the end, the mother murders the man (by shooting him to death) who had been molesting her underage daughter for years and indirectly caused her death... I mean, really? 

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I just watched this episode and thought it was awful: the writing, the acting, and the directing. The way the FBI talked to the girls was unbelievable and the kidnapper never would have been allowed near any of them every again. 

The whole episode that was based on fact was eyeball roll and groan inducing. 

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They found the younger girls, and "Violet" was reconciled with her parents, the younger girls' grandparents. I don't recall, and haven't seen the end for Gina, perhaps she was reunited with her parents.

  • Love 2
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