Small Talk: ...not Top Carrot

[In Pog Form]

I'm from California and have been told, multiple times that the LA accent is the lack of an accent, and I agree.  

 

How is that possible? Everybody has an accent, it doesn't matter where you are from.

 

I thought people were being sarcastic, but I'm amazed by the idea that people seriously think they don't have accents.

[RCharter]

 

How is that possible? Everybody has an accent, it doesn't matter where you are from.

 

I thought people were being sarcastic, but I'm amazed by the idea that people seriously think they don't have accents.

I don't think there is anything distinctive about the way people in California speak.  I also don't think there is an Arizona accent.  What do you think is distinctive about the way people in California speak?

[In Pog Form]

I don't think there is anything distinctive about the way people in California speak.  I also don't think there is an Arizona accent.  What do you think is distinctive about the way people in California speak?

 

Well, for starters, it's an American accent. It differs from a Russian accent, or an English accent.

 

Furthermore, what is a "standard" American accent? Someone from New York will think their accent is a "normal" American accent, and that Californians speak differently. The way that human language works, there is no such thing as a "neutral" accent.

[RCharter]

Well, for starters, it's an American accent. It differs from a Russian accent, or an English accent.

 

Furthermore, what is a "standard" American accent? Someone from New York will think their accent is a "normal" American accent, and that Californians speak differently. The way that human language works, there is no such thing as a "neutral" accent.

Most people from New York that I've met think they have an accent, as do people from Boston, they realize that their manner of speaking is distinctive and they embrace it.  An accent is a "distinctive mode of pronunciation of a language," and I don't think there is anything particularly distinctive about the way people from California speak.  This is why many people can peg an Boston accent, or a New York accent, but the most people can do with someone from California most of the time is simply recognize that they aren't from those places where the is an accent.  Because the manner of speaking is nothing distinctive to the region, only in that its not from another region.  

 

I don't think there is such a thing as a "normal" American accent, because having a New York, Boston, Southern or other regional accent is American as these are regions in America.  

Edited February 6, 2016 by RCharter

[In Pog Form]

An accent is a "distinctive mode of pronunciation of a language," and I don't think there is anything particularly distinctive about the way people from California speak.

That's because you're Californian. Is the Californian way of speaking distinctive from the London, England way of speaking? Hell yes.

Accents are relative, an everybody's accent is distinct in relation to other people's. People from England can tell apart accents from different parts of England, even though outsiders might think all English people have the same accent.

This is why many people can peg an Boston accent, or a New York accent, but the most people can do with someone from California most of the time is simply recognize that they aren't from those places where the is an accent.

I don't think that's true. The Californian accent is just as recognizable as other regional accents.

Because the manner of speaking is nothing distinctive to the region, only in that its not from another region.

Which makes it distinct from other regional accents. If it was not distinctive, then how would people tell it is not from their region?

 

I don't think there is such a thing as a "normal" American accent, because having a New York, Boston, Southern or other regional accent is American as these are regions in America.

That makes them distinct.

[Totale]

Relevant to the accents section of the RW thread (though not to that episode, so it's here), try this NYT test.  I am one of those who come from the middle of nowhere and think I don't speak with an accent, and it pegged me to within 50 miles of where I grew up.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

[Wings]

Just sounds like home to me, y'all! The New Orleans area has it's own unique accent - not a Southern twang at all. It almost sounds like folks are from New York, only it's softer somehow because we tend to drop letters from words and then substitute others. For example, dat, dese, dem, dose instead of that, these, them, those - there's a whole "yat-speak" that creeps back into my speech pattern every time I'm home. It's hard to shake and even harder to imitate, f'true! Our unique accent is why actors in movies/tv series set in NOLA sound so goofy (see NCIS:New Orleans - I'm lookin' at you Scott Bakula!)

 

Still hoping for an Isaac / Marjorie faceoff at final two with the "unrefined" chef beating out Miss Priss - possibly with a porkchop bone

 

 

I know that accent.  Traveling we spent some time on the outskirts of New Orleans, Houma and Mamou to name two.  I loved to hear them speak.   Freds bar in Mamou on Saturday morning was a trip from  7:30 am to 2pm.  I even have a Tante Sue T-shirt!  

 

I likened Phillip to a bumptious but basically well-meaning puppy a few weeks ago.  He does have sharp puppy teeth once in a while, but overall I think he is just overpraised and overconfident, but I don't see him doing anything deliberately to sabotage someone else.  I don't think it would occur to him.  His personality grates on me, for sure.  Still think he's mostly innocuous.

 

I agree.  I like him; he is a good, well intended guy, very much like an enthusiast puppy.  

[Jesse]

I used to get crazy answers on those quizzes, because I moved around a bit and tend to pick things up, but I've been back where I grew up for six years now, and it's right on point!

[Calamity Jane]

I don't think there is anything distinctive about the way people in California speak.  I also don't think there is an Arizona accent.  What do you think is distinctive about the way people in California speak?

My brother went to college in southwest Missouri (our family is from that area) where he was mocked for his California accent.  They do have a definite sound there, and they hear when someone doesn't sound like them.  I remember he once sent a letter with return address as "Sprangfeeeeel, Missourah."  

I don't think there is anything distinctive about the way people in California speak.  I also don't think there is an Arizona accent.  What do you think is distinctive about the way people in California speak?

Watch the SNL skits called "The Californians," which exaggerate the sound but do let you hear it more easily.  

[ClareWalks]

I dabbled in linguistics so I know a teeny bit about accents...what we'd call "standard American" is more accurately known as "non-regional diction," and can be heard almost exclusively on major-market news anchors. Many of them cultivate a non-regional diction so that they are easily understood nationwide and so their accent is not distracting. Weather forecasters, on the other hand...anything goes with those guys and gals. They have the strongest regional accents on the planet. Agree that people tend to think their way of speaking is "no accent," which is absurd. But yeah, news anchors in big markets, they have non-regional diction very frequently. 

 

FWIW I don't know what is meant by a "douchey LA accent." There are certainly accents that sound very douchey but LA wouldn't even make my top 20. ;)

[Wings]

Relevant to the accents section of the RW thread (though not to that episode, so it's here), try this NYT test.  I am one of those who come from the middle of nowhere and think I don't speak with an accent, and it pegged me to within 50 miles of where I grew up.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

 

 

This is more about terms for things.  There are only 3 or 4 on pronunciation.  It could not peg me.  The 3 cities they mentioned are not even close to where I was raised.  Anchorage was one of them!  I was born in MI.  

[Julia]

It pegged me as NYC or two bedroom cities around NYC, in all three cases because I use 'sneakers'. That seems a little limited.

[RCharter]

That's because you're Californian. Is the Californian way of speaking distinctive from the London, England way of speaking? Hell yes.

Accents are relative, an everybody's accent is distinct in relation to other people's. People from England can tell apart accents from different parts of England, even though outsiders might think all English people have the same accent.

I don't think that's true. The Californian accent is just as recognizable as other regional accents.

Which makes it distinct from other regional accents. If it was not distinctive, then how would people tell it is not from their region?

 

That makes them distinct.

I don't think that makes the way Californians speak distinctive per se.  Most people couldn't tell where I'm from, they only know where I'm not from, therefore its not distinctive or linked to a particular region.  The only link is that it is not from certain regions.  There is a difference to me.  I can tell a New York accent, but I couldn't tell if someone was from California or Arizona by any distinctive speech pattern.  To me, saying your accent is from place X based on the way you speak makes it distinctive to your region, saying that your accent is not from place Y doesn't necessarily make it distinctive or linked to a particular region, it only means its not linked to the region you are currently in.

 

I've had people place me from California, but not because of an "accent", whereas I know that I can tell if someone has a New York or a Boston accent.  Someone could tell me I'm not from New York or Boston based on my manner of speech, but they couldn't tell me where I was from because my manner of speech isn't distinct to any particular region.  That's been my experience, and it makes sense to me.  I couldn't tell you if someone was from Arizona, California, Seattle based on an accent, but I could probably tell you if someone was from New York, or Idaho, or New Orleans from their accent.  

 

If the only thing that is "distinct" about an accent is where it isn't from, that doesn't particularly make it distinctive to me.  

 

But honestly, for my money, I love accents, and I always tend to mimic them consciously or subconsciously when I travel to a region where I feel there is an accent, because I think they are cool.   So, if I have one, more power to me, I just think everyone else's is far cooler than mine. :)

Edited February 6, 2016 by RCharter

[bunnywithanaxe]

I am a proud Northern Californian, and the minute I set foot in Southern England I became very aware I had an accent-- that half the people there couldn't understand. We muddy our constonants, we pronounce our vowels indistinctly, we have a California drawl that is just as prononced as (but very distinct from) a Southern drawl. Lucky for me they thought it was cute, so I deliberately amped it up.

[In Pog Form]

I don't think that makes the way Californians speak distinctive per se.  Most people couldn't tell where I'm from, they only know where I'm not from, therefore its not distinctive or linked to a particular region.

I think everybody could tell you are from America, and not England. Those differences are very distinctive and obvious.

 

The only link is that it is not from certain regions.  There is a difference to me.  I can tell a New York accent, but I couldn't tell if someone was from California or Arizona by any distinctive speech pattern.

But it doesn't have to be that geographically specific. Arizona and California are both "Western" states. People have no problems talking about the "Southern" accent, even though the "South" covers a vast geographic region.

It doesn't mean that everybody in California has the same accent - but there is a general trend, or a "family" of accents that cluster around that area.

 

To me, saying your accent is from place X based on the way you speak makes it distinctive to your region, saying that your accent is not from place Y doesn't necessarily make it distinctive or linked to a particular region, it only means its not linked to the region you are currently in.

OK. So, think about what makes a Brooklyn accent distinct from your own. The lack of those elements makes your accent exactly as distinct from a Brooklyn accent as a Brooklyn accent is from yours.

You just misinterpret that as you having no accent, because that's what you are used to. There's no such thing as "no accent" - even for a completely computer-generated synthetic voice.

 

Someone could tell me I'm not from New York or Boston based on my manner of speech, but they couldn't tell me where I was from because my manner of speech isn't distinct to any particular region.  That's been my experience, and it makes sense to me.

1. That doesn't mean you don't have an accent.

2. Again, they can tell you're American, which is a particular region of the world.

3. Specifically, they can probably tell you're from the Western region of the US.

Edited February 6, 2016 by In Pog Form

[MissEwa]

I'm Australian. You all have an accent. The "LA Accent" is, to me, the default American accent, because it's the one we hear most often on TV, but it's still an accent.

[LilyoftheValley]

I went to law school in LA and several of the women there had that valley girl twang.  I cannot think of anything less professional than a lawyer talking like a mall rat, but apparently people with dippy accents are unaware of it.  

 

I think the "douchey LA accent" is more of a class thing than an accent thing.  Southern Louisiana creoles have a totally different class background than a Man Bun from Los Angeles.  Isaac and his wife are probably just a little sensitive about their working class roots.  I mean how many times have people accused Isaac of having "unrefined" food?  Basically he is seen as an unrefined person (another word for low class) and his food (naturally) reflects that.  It seems like Kevin from a few seasons back had food sort of like Isaac's, but Kevin's food was just considered more rustic than unrefined.  There is definitely a class/race issue on Top Chef that one can seen over the seasons.  Personally I think it is a class thing more than anything else.  Someone from an upper class background whose food is traditional never gets the critique of "unrefined".  It is people like Isaac who get that.  

[Julia]

The distinct thing about Brooklyn accents is that by and large they only still exist in Staten Island and South Jersey ;)

I can see where the parallel comes from, though, because both New Orleans and New York are wildly diverse cities. The New York accent everyone recognizes from WW2 movies was the result of a century of italians and yiddish-speakers from across eastern Europe learning english from people with irish accents. I imagine something very much like that happened in NO, since it seems to have been a bit of a destination city for non-protestants.

[FormerMod-a1]

The Small Talk topic is for:

 

• Introductions
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This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:

 

1. Figure out the nature of the topic you want to talk about
2. Look for an existing topic that matches or fits
3. If there is NOT an existing topic that fits, CREATE ONE!

 

Examples of topics that populate show forums include (but by no means are limited to):

 

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Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

[Julia]

OMG i can haz recipes!!!1!eleventy!

Thanks :)

Edited February 6, 2016 by Julia

[Bastet]

Relevant to the accents section of the RW thread (though not to that episode, so it's here), try this NYT test.

 

That was funny.  In the end, it put me in three cities in northern California (when I'm in Los Angeles, which is also where I was born and raised), so it was close, but along the way there were so many questions when it had no ever-loving idea where I was.  And I'd move from one side of the country to the other from question to question.  Entertaining.

 

My real answer to some of these is that sometimes I say this, sometimes I say that.  Especially the one about trucks carrying freight -- I'd say semi, 18-wheeler, big rig, or maybe even one or two others.

 

Oh, look -- it isn't the same 25 questions every time, so it's interesting to take the quiz more than once and see how the results change.  It still put me in northern CA for two cities, but now Salt Lake City, UT is my third. 

 

I wonder how many variations there are ... I can waste some serious time on this.

 

Hee ... now it thinks I live in New Mexico.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Bastet

[jette]

I, too, clicked on Totale's link above and took the NYT test - it placed me as being from New Orleans, Baton Rouge or Jackson, MS. So to the authors of that test, I say: Yeah, you rite! :)

[Julia]

The beleaguered husband got the same three NY metropolitan area cities I did, when he really lived in Detroit until he was 26. He thinks it's because I colonized his brain. I wonder if he'd gotten a question about the steps in front of the house (front porch steps, not stoops) or the thing on the dash you keep your registration in (glove box, not compartment) or hot dogs (they call large hot dogs made of meat coney islands, which mystifies me) if the answer wouldn't have been different.

[Wings]

It pegged me as NYC or two bedroom cities around NYC, in all three cases because I use 'sneakers'. That seems a little limited.

 

 

I say sneakers too and so do people in Anchorage apparently!   I am from the Detroit area and they didn't even get close.  Wash DC and Baltimore were the other two.  The conclusion is from more than just one question.  

 

I took it again and thought I answered everything the same but got St Petersburg, Ft Lauderdale FL and Wash DC.  

[In Pog Form]

OMG i can haz recipes!!!1!eleventy!

Anybody got a recipe for Californian carrots?

[Julia]

Anybody got a recipe for Californian carrots?

 

I wonder how much product placement we have going on here. 

[In Pog Form]

Relevant to the accents section of the RW thread (though not to that episode, so it's here), try this NYT test.  I am one of those who come from the middle of nowhere and think I don't speak with an accent, and it pegged me to within 50 miles of where I grew up.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=0

That is freakin' awesome.

[Wings]

Anybody got a recipe for Californian carrots?

 

 

I do!  Peel and eat.  

[carrps]

That test isn't talking accents, though. It's talking word usage/vocabulary. It has absolutely nothing to do with how you pronounce the actual words.

[Totale]

That test isn't talking accents, though. It's talking word usage/vocabulary. It has absolutely nothing to do with how you pronounce the actual words.

 

Depending on which test you get, there are several pronunciation questions every time (cot/caught, Mary/merry/marry, lawyer) which add to the dialect questions the test is based on to guess your heritage.

[mlp]

Interesting quiz.  I got 1) Buffalo - where I was born and raised and lived until I was in my early 20s, 2)Rochester - not far from Buffalo and 3) Cleveland - also not that far but probably a result of my having lived in the Midwest most of my adult life.  I'm going to ask my daughters to take the quiz.  I'm curious to see how "kids" raised in the Midwest by parents from Buffalo end up placed.

[biakbiak]

I got two northern California cities and Madison, WI. I was born and raised in Seattle, went to school in the Midwest though not Wisconsin, and have lived in SF for 15 + years. I took the test when it first appeared ND got northern California and the Pacific Northwest so perhaps I am losing my Seattle-isms.

[chiaros]

I have my doubts about how accurate the above test is for folks NOT born and bred in the USA but who speak English as a first or dominant language.

[MissEwa]

I have my doubts about how accurate the above test is for folks NOT born and bred in the USA but who speak English as a first or dominant language.

I took it (twice) and I got Providence, Jersey City or Maine, and then Honolulu or Minneapolis. I'm born and raised Sydney, Australia. So... not very accurate at all. 

[Rockfish]

I took the test, and it was bang on. I've lived in Toronto for more than a decade, but it listed a city in central California that's close to where I grew up (also listed Reno and Boise). Definitely, for a lot of us from the Central Valley we have a twang that's hard to eliminate and that others hear. I think it comes from the effects of the many Oklahomans who migrated during the dust bowl of the 30s, but I'm no linguist.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Rockfish

[carrps]

Interesting quiz.  I got 1) Buffalo - where I was born and raised and lived until I was in my early 20s, 2)Rochester - not far from Buffalo and 3) Cleveland - also not that far but probably a result of my having lived in the Midwest most of my adult life.  I'm going to ask my daughters to take the quiz.  I'm curious to see how "kids" raised in the Midwest by parents from Buffalo end up placed.

Ah, thanks! I didn't get the accent one...I got the vocabulary one. This makes more sense now.

[walnutqueen]

Des Moines, Madison, Rockford - nowhere NEAR Vancouver (Canada), or any place I've lived (Hawaii & SoCal).

[tljgator]

Mark me down for "disturbingly accurate" on the quiz, lol ... the place I was raised (which is only a few hours from where I live now) was the first of the three cities it tagged for me. Fun!

[The Solution]

The distinct thing about Brooklyn accents is that by and large they only still exist in Staten Island and South Jersey ;)

I can see where the parallel comes from, though, because both New Orleans and New York are wildly diverse cities. The New York accent everyone recognizes from WW2 movies was the result of a century of italians and yiddish-speakers from across eastern Europe learning english from people with irish accents. I imagine something very much like that happened in NO, since it seems to have been a bit of a destination city for non-protestants.

Yeah, yeah, yeah! I always said we sound the way we do because we or our parents or our grandparents were taught English by Irish nuns!

[SingleMaltBlonde]

Interesting quiz.  I got 1) Buffalo - where I was born and raised and lived until I was in my early 20s, 2)Rochester - not far from Buffalo and 3) Cleveland - also not that far but probably a result of my having lived in the Midwest most of my adult life.  I'm going to ask my daughters to take the quiz.  I'm curious to see how "kids" raised in the Midwest by parents from Buffalo end up placed.

 

This is interesting...my results came kinda close but not really.  I am midwest thru and thru but raised by a military brat who lived all over.

 

I do think some people have a better ear for accents.  Especially if you have always lived somewhere.  Many years ago when I was answering a phone a guy on the other end not only knew I was NOT a native of where I was working but knew generally where I was from.

[Nutjob]

I took the quiz and it gave me Modesto, Fresno and Santa Rosa in California. Not bad, since I grew up in Vacaville and my family is mostly from Stockton.

 

Add me to the list of folks who say there is definitely a California accent. Some people have it stronger than others, just like with any accent anywhere, but it exists... like I said in the main thread, listen to Gwen Stefani speak if you want to hear a representative version of a pretty strong California accent. I know I have a bit of it, and it gets stronger if I'm worked up about something. My hubby, who is a NYer from Long Island, noticed it the moment we met and commented on it.

[Lamb18]

I took the quiz and it was spot on - Minneapolis/St. Paul. Ian has always been a boy's name to me, never confused with Ann. (ee-en or ee-un).

[BrakeLites]

Off the accent topic, but I am seriously torn about how I'm going to juggle my viewing tonight. There's Restaurant Wars II and the premiere of Project Runway All Stars. I have learned from experience that if you watch the rerun, it's been edited, even if you watch it On Demand.  And why can I remember having to sweat this decision in previous seasons?

[Julia]

I think the 11:30 run of Top Chef will probably be the same as the initial broadcast version. I think they only mess with them for syndication.

[Bastet]

Yeah, I like to watch Nightwatch instead of Top Chef at 7:00, because Nightwatch doesn't air again until 11:00 while Top Chef is on again practically as soon as it's over.  So I watch the 8:30 re-airing of Top Chef, and when I read forum commentary, I never see anyone talking about anything I didn't see, so as far as I know it's the same. 

[kittykat]

Quiz taken. Born and raised in Southern California, got Southern California cities even though I moved away four years ago. I'll vouch that we have somewhat of an accent. And I don't know what this highway/turnpike nonsense is, everything's a freeway ;-)

[cooksdelight]

The thing that I think is totally and exclusively southern California is how instead of saying "I'm going to take I-5 today" people say "I'm taking THE 5 today." Every single freeway or highway is THE _____.

I didn't want to get off topic in the episode thread, but the discussion about chicken and waffles reminded me of really enjoyable show I watched about food history....can't remember if it was on PBS or the History channel, but one segment was about fried chicken. Day laborers, like my grandfather who worked for NCDOT, would take a piece of fried chicken in their lunch box because it was easy to carry and eat. And an apple for some type of liquid juiciness. PaPaw always had a big thermos of coffee, but some of the poorer people didn't have that and would drink from a dipper of water in a big barrel that was taken to the job site. Fried chicken became so popular in the south due to it being easy to carry in one's pocket wrapped up in wax paper.

I never saw chicken and waffles here in the south until the last 10 years or so when restaurants in and around Atlanta started featuring them on the menu. As I understand it, they were popular up north long before they became popular nationwide.

Then along came Col. Sanders and those secret herbs and spices. We didn't have one here in my small town until the mid 70s. When I was little, my grandparents, aunt and uncle and I would go to Asheville to go shopping, and we'd pick up a bucket of KFC to bring home. But we never quite made it home, we'd stop at one of the roadside picnic tables along the banks of the Nantahala river and eat our dinner outdoors.

I think I had fried chicken at least once a week, always on Sunday after church, and anytime we'd have company. If I were going to fix chicken and waffles for guests today, I would use the boneless breast meat to make it easier to eat.

[RCharter]

^^ We do indeed do that.  And when I visit other areas, a little part of my brain adds "the" before the name of the highway.  Someone will say "take I-95, exit such and such" and in my brain I'm hearing "take the I-95...."  

 

When I go to Roscoe's I always get the leg, because it has some of that good fatty dark meat (I think, either that or something about it is fatty.  Not that chicken breast would be dry, but I think fried chicken is the tastiest when its on the fattier parts of the chicken.  Or a drumstick.

[cattykit]

I never saw chicken and waffles here in the south until the last 10 years or so when restaurants in and around Atlanta started featuring them on the menu. As I understand it, they were popular up north long before they became popular nationwide.

I am a Northerner and I never heard of chicken and waffles until I saw them on an episode of Throwdown.

[cooksdelight]

Someone posted somewhere that they were popular in Pennsylvania Dutch country for a long time.