S14.E04: Gloria Steinem, P.J. O'Rourke, Alex Wagner, Armstrong Williams, Erin Brockovich

[GHScorpiosRule]

Gloria Steinem, Humorist P.J. O'Rourke, Television host Alex Wagner, Political commentator Armstrong Williams, Environmentalist Erin Brockavich

Me: WOOHOO! Gloria Steinem! Though I would have loved to have her sit on the panel.

Edited February 6, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

Gloria Steinem is my HERO.

 

I wanted to punch Bill, PJ and Armstrong in their faces for not letting Gloria finish her sentences in the interview (Bill) and for talking over Alex during the panel. I was laughing and cheering in Overtime when Gloria told Armstrong to "let me finish" and shut his mouth while she made her points. Loved, fucking loved what she had to say about women, and especially that piece of turd, Trump. That he's not a successful businessman, but a con man.  And at least Alex got to speak without interuption on Overtime as well. Now that, the issue of Carson leaving Iowa to "get fresh clothes" I wanted to hear during the show.

 

And Moore didn't show, since he's got pneumonia, which Bill filled everyone up on, right before New Rules.

[Maherjunkie]

Bill seemed happy to be talking to a woman in her 80s!  If you want vintage Bill head over to Murder She Wrote on HLM at midnight.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Maherjunkie

[Ruby25]

Why was Armstrong being so nasty to Gloria during overtime? Man, that was unappealing.

 

Gloria's awesome. And Bill was actually at his most annoying and gross in overtime, stating that it's not good for men to take care of kids because their level of testosterone drops. And Gloria made the very good point that both genders need a balance, which he totally shot down. Made me want to punch him in the face.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I thought Bill was much funnier this week than last!  He was overbearing during his one on one with Gloria.  And that woman is 81!?!  Wow!  She looks amazing!

I had not seen PJ before and hope I never do again, was he drunk, high or both?!  Obnoxious asshole!  And maybe Bill needs to give his panel a head's up about his upcoming bits so they don't get spoiled or stepped on like PJ last night and someone else last week I can't remember. 

 

And Bill STFU while Erin was trying to educate America. 

[iMonrey]

 

I had not seen PJ before and hope I never do again, was he drunk, high or both?!

 

He was actually quieter than he usually is if you can believe that.

 

I thought this week was rife with wasted opportunity. First the interview with Gloria Steinem - wow, she's 81? I know she's had work done but still, for 81 she looks amazing. But once again Bill felt the need to steer her in the direction of Islam-bashing, he's just so hung up on the fact that liberals won't criticize Islam it's like his new life mission to push a liberal icon like Steinem to say something against Islam. And she made the valid point that the problem is attaching religion to government - theocracy is the actual problem - and he just wasn't hearing it.

 

Then the interview with Erin Brackovich, another wasted opportunity with someone so up on environmental issues, he kept interrupting her to make dumb jokes then he just went on to some other issue she had no input on. This would have been the ideal opportunity to point out that this is what deregulation looks like. This is what a Republican administration does, de-regulate and cut taxes until government is so starved for funds they can't even pay for basic things like clean water and corporations are allowed to dump as much pollution into the air and water as they want. I want to hear some Republican pundit defend deregulation in the face of the Flint water crisis. 

 

Not that either of the right-wing panelists were up for it. Armstrong Williams just sounds like a moron and once he said something about "fleecing the job creators" I wrote him off for good.

 

{Woot! Margaret Cho next week; I hope she's on the panel.}

[ganesh]

That Armstrong guy is just useless. I have no idea what he was talking about anything.

 

I take Bill's point about being in control of the risk you want to take, but using a football analogy is ignorant at best. No one knew about CTE and long term effects on players. Now we do. The league does jack to help former players health-wise to the point where Peyton Manning suggested that the current players donate money to a fund. The league isn't taking .0001% of it's literal billions into research for better equipment and health care. So, there's a clear lack of informed consent. Smoking, sure. We all know the risks quite well, so if you choose to smoke, that's on you. It's just a bad example. I don't really get what he's going for. Rhianna was to get back together with someone who beat her. There's something wrong with me if I say that's a dumb idea and she should know better? Really Bill.

 

One thing I did like with Gloria was that Bill made a new, better point. In the 80s, I remember all the people protesting about South Africa. So, where are the people making songs and marching for women's rights in Saudi Arabia? Gloria was great, but she didn't want to talk about this issue clearly. Saying that Mohammed's wife was a real estate agent and using the koran to justify women's rights misses the point. They shouldn't be using the koran at all in the first place. That's like saying Jesus was probably down with gay people. I don't really care. Gay people deserve equal protection under the law just like everyone else and went to court to establish that under the rule of law, as it should be. 

 

And she made the valid point that the problem is attaching religion to government - theocracy is the actual problem - and he just wasn't hearing it.

 

That's what Bill was saying imo. She just wasn't going to go there. The theocracy in the middle east is based on islam and it's just as bad a republicans trying to turn back Roe V Wade because the bible. I think it's fair to ask *the* feminist what she thinks of women's rights in a major hot spot around the world.

 

 

This would have been the ideal opportunity to point out that this is what deregulation looks like. This is what a Republican administration does, de-regulate and cut taxes until government is so starved for funds they can't even pay for basic things like clean water and corporations are allowed to dump as much pollution into the air and water as they want. I want to hear some Republican pundit defend deregulation in the face of the Flint water crisis.

 

When she was bringing up how instead of using filters they dump chemicals instead, I said *exactly* the same thing. Then that idiot in the middle was trying to talk about deregulation later. Between Flint and SoCal, I can't believe they didn't bring up this issue. It's hugely relevant. 

 

Bill was right that if the plant had black smoke coming out of it, people would pay attention. You know what kind of power plant has nothing coming out of it, to the eye or on infrared, Bill? Nuclear. Zero emissions. Just in case you didn't know that, Bill.

 

I really liked when Alex said, "no, restore means basically put gay people back in the closet and women in the kitchen." (ooh, that's a really good line, I just thought of that.) Whenever people talk about taking America back, it's usually dumb white dudes. Who hate the gays because they're afraid people will know that they kind of like dick sometimes, and probably have never even met a gay person. And what to tell their wives to shut up.

 

I like when Bill brings up actual data. Unemployment under 5%. Steady growth, most in the world. Big jobs turnaround. But if we deregulate we'll have more jobs right?!

Edited February 6, 2016 by ganesh

[attica]

That Bill could go off on a libertarian rant after sitting there with Gloria Freaking Steinem and Erin Freaking Brockovitch astonishes me. Maybe it shouldn't, but: god damn. If everybody gets to do what they want, the methane leak doesn't get fixed, and women don't get abortions when they want them.  But no, individual liberty for grown men that want to fuck 15 year olds! (That the girl in question was eager does nothing to dissuade me that Bowie could certainly have abstained if he didn't think he was entitled to fuck whatever he wanted.) And Bill's using 'social justice warrior' as an epithet?!? The only people that use that term in that way are misogynist cretins.

 

O'Rourke continued to be the hack that he is, right from his first 'kids in their parents' basement' "joke." Such innovative wit! How good of him to push himself away from the Algonquin Round Table in order to sit around Bill's.

 

Hillary's not the natural pol that Obama is, or Bill Clinton is. I've winced at a number of moments of hers on the trail over the years. But when she gets in her wheelhouse of Policy Wonk, it's thrilling. Alex's point about the substantive heft of the Dem debates was exactly right. Bill's comment about 'she's losing to Bernie' overlooks the natural progression of any race, where voters slowly get familiar with previously unknown candidates, and leads wane and wax. But hey, if she ultimately loses to Bernie, yay for progressives for voting so hard.

[ganesh]

I was going to ask if Bowie knew she was 15 in the first place. Now, it's a legal standard, whether she was willing or not, minors can't give informed consent. Certainly not hopped up on pills and booze. 

 

Good call on social justice warriors. I missed that. The way Bill used the term isn't what they are. I thought 'social justice warriors' are those idiots who talk about the "men's rights' movement."

 

I would have no problem voting for an equal rights amendment, but isn't that what the 14th amendment is? I think in 2016 an equal rights amendment has to extend far beyond just women. I would think instead of getting behind a movement to amend the constitution, which would be nearly impossible, that efforts for women would be better served by getting legislation passed like paid maternity leave, equal pay, etc. 

[arachne]

Gloria Steinem was like the proverbial breath of fresh air. If that’s how she looks at 81, I feel hopeful for my own future.

 

I appreciated Steinem’s choice of words when Bill did his usual Islam-bashing with her. She kept referring to “monotheism” as the problem, rather than religion itself. (Okay, I admit I enjoyed that on a personal level.)

And during Overtime, she pointed out how Donald Trump was not a good businessman, just a good con artist. There is a difference.

[attica]

I thought 'social justice warriors' are those idiots who talk about the "men's rights' movement."

 

"Men's rights" advocates are some of the ones who use social justice warrior as an epithet. Because advocating for rights/visibility/fairness for oppressed populations is bad for white dudes, the logic seems to be. Gamergaters are (iirc) the ones who pushed that 'insult' into wider usage. So Bill has aligned himself with those assholes, whether or not he's conscious of it. (I suspect he's not, but his ongoing whining about runaway political correctness when all that's happening is that people are telling him maybe his jokes about fat guys or banging 15-yr-olds aren't the acme of hilarity he still thinks they are, puts him in the same sphere.)

[ganesh]

When I was thinking of men's rights, I was thinking of the 36 y/o grown ass man *who lives in his mom's basement* talking about legalizing rape. On private property. I want to make sure I'm accurate there. 

 

I think I said over on the TNS board (so glad we don't get fingers cut off here for 'boards on boards'), whenever I read about political correctness, it's always old white dudes whining. Sorry, Bill. I'm with you on most stuff, and 99.9% on religion, but you tend to veer into the smart, stupid people sphere that you rant about. 

 

This New Rules really missed the mark for me. I'm teaching my spring class in risk, actually, and he's really just not understanding what he's talking about. I mean, yeah, if someone wants to smoke, go ahead. But I'm not going to a bar where smoking is allowed, or someone's house. I'm certainly well within my legal rights to call you stupid too. There's discussion on the NFL thread (boards on boards) about how the NFL essentially treats players like commodities, so saying "if they want to beat each other up, let them" is just fundamentally ignorant. Two days ago Ken Stabler died because he suffered from CTE. Had he known about the risks of CTE would he have made the same choice? Maybe. But his choice would have been informed. Taking on risk also assumes there is informed consent.

 

The New Rules really bothers me this week. 

[NextIteration]

Oh ferchrissakes, I would have much rather heard Gloria effing Steinem discuss why there are fewer women on the planet than have her reluctantly defend Islam against the Islamaphobe.  And even more maddening, not enough Erin.

[Victor the Crab]

Bill fails to make his case about people feeling free to do whatever the fuck they want when he uses Paul Walker as his example. Walker was lucky he didn't strike and kill any other vehicle passenger and or pedestrian during his little joyride. Plus, he leaves behind a young daughter who will grow up never knowing her father that well. But given how Bill hates children, I can see why he would fail to factor that in, the misanthrope.

Another week, another Bill tirade of bashing Muslims. Fuck off with that Bill, not everyone shares in your blatant bigotry.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Armstrong was beyond useless. He kept trying to interrupt during Overtime, that Trump was a "great businessman" I think is what I heard, then his condescending ass saying "please finish" to Gloria, even though he kept interrupting after she told him to let her finish.  And then admitting that Carson left Iowa, not for fresh clothes, because the poor widdle doctor was just "tired." Did you know, he'd been on the road for 17 DAYS! or whatever the number of days was. And I guess he's never heard of dry cleaning stores, or that Iowa probably does have shops where he could purchase "fresh" clothes.

 

It would have been such a refreshing and much better panel had the panel consisted of Gloria, Erin and Alex.

Edited February 7, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[BetterButter]

Who were Bill and Gloria referencing when they mentioned Kaitlyn Jenner and then said that once the richest business person in America (not a direct quote) was also transgendered?

Martine Rothblatt

[NextIteration]

So, not a one of us commented about Steinem's off-handed remark about "where the boys are" in reference to Sanders young male supporters, but that broke the internet.  Odd, I think.

[Funzlerks]

When I watched it, I thought it was super-groan worthy. However, she was in a strange jokey mood where a lot of things were falling flat. I think if Albright hadn't followed with a moral condemnation of women not helping Hillary Clinton achieve her dreams financed by Wall Street, it would have ended with minor waves. Steinem apologized pretty quickly, too.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Funzlerks

[ganesh]

It seemed obvious to me that she was making a bad joke within the context of the entire interview. The whole issue seemed opened and shut fast. Albright's comments are way way worse. 

[DollEyes]

Delurking:

 

  Gloria Steinem's "where the boys are" line was cringeworthy, but her shutting down Bill's Islamophobia, calling Donald Trump "a con man" and putting Armstrong Williams on blast more than made up for it. I would call Armstrong Williams a piece of shit, but at least shit can be useful, unlike AW.

 

 

Bill fails to make his case about people feeling free to do whatever the fuck they want when he uses Paul Walker as his example. Walker was lucky he didn't strike and kill any other passenger and or pedestrian during his little joyride.

 

  Walker wasn't driving.