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The Storybrooke Daily Mirror: OUaT in the Media, Cons and Other Real Life Encounters

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I find it so funny that so many guys who work clean-shaven on a show grow beards during hiatus. It's almost like they want to get as much facial hair time in as they can before they're made to shave again.

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Why is half the cast in Paris? There have been Twitter pics the past few days of various combinations of Lana, Sean, Jared, Emilie, Rebecca Mader and Robbie Kay there.

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There's a con there this weekend, I think it's called the Fairytales Convention. There's supposed to be a "Swan Queen: Dream or Reality?" debate there on Sunday. Not sure if the actors will be present for the debate or not. I rather hope they aren't. 

Edited by InsertWordHere

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There is an event called "fairy tales II" and this year is on OUAT.

I've looked the site of the event: wow at the prices to participate and to have autographs or photos with them!

InsertWords, according to the site the actors shouldn't be there, at least Lana shouldn't. But you never know.

Edited by Alex
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It looks really fun. I would have loved to have been there and met a cast member or two. To pricey for my taste, though! (Showing off famous people seems to be a lucrative business!)

Edited by KingOfHearts

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There's a con there this weekend, I think it's called the Fairytales Convention. There's supposed to be a "Swan Queen: Dream or Reality?" debate there on Sunday. Not sure if the actors will be present for the debate or not. I rather hope they aren't. 

 

Lord. And agreed.

 

I just Googled. I am side-eyeing some of those debate topics pretty hard.

 

If one is going to go appear at a con, a con in Paris would be the one to go to!

Edited by Souris
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Who planned these debate topics? Debate: The Villains…The True Heroes?

 

It would be so delightful to pay a couple hundred euros to attend this con only for it to make me want to kill myself at the idiocy of the fandom. 

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Adam and Eddy are probably the ones who came up with the topic since villains can true love and do light magic without a heart.  That's a special kind of power. <sarcasm>

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I looked at EW's Season Finale Awards a little more carefully, and 14.4% picked "Once Upon a Time" for "Next Year's Season Pass is Now In Jeopardy".  Glee got 30.99%.  

 

And yet Best Romantic Cliffhanger was "Once Upon a Time" for Marion/Regina/Robin?
 

So, great cliffhanger, but now I might not watch next season.  LOL!

 

27% voted the Elsa cliffhanger for one that they didn't see, just heard about.

 

These numbers are probably meaningless, but still...

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The thing is that "Best Romantic Cliffhanger" would get a bunch of fangirls voting for it whereas Might Lose Season Pass is more of a casual fan category which is probably more reflective of general audience feelings. I know I was enjoying the finale and it was working its way back to me feeling better about the show until it became all about Regina again at the end. That said, in a romantic cliffhanger way it was still way better than the stupid Castle cliffhanger, so if I had to choose I'd go with OUAT. Basically, not as sucky a cliffhanger as anything else, but not interesting enough to keep me watching.

 

Incidentally, if you want some interesting numbers use the filters on FF.net for individual characters on Once and look at the story count for them. Since ff.net is not biased in any way towards anything and is simply a repository for all stories everywhere, I found the numbers fascinating. Emma is in thousands more stories than Regina for example. Now obviously, I wouldn't base anything off of these numbers for any reason, but it's still a fun look since it does cross into all fandoms/ships. 

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To be honest, I don't think the Marian cliffhanger is exactly bad. It's actually a great "her actions bite Regina in the ass" sort of twist. The only bad thing about it, IMO, is that the writers are so out of touch with human logic that they'll play it as "poor Regina gets her happy ending stolen by the evil Charmings, and isn't Marian the worst" instead of "Regina gets what she deserves". It's sad because I remember when Tamara came on screen, I was like "there's no way they'll make her evil, remember Abigail/Kathryn in season 1? Everyone thought she would be evil, but she was awesome". However, that kind of writing and subtlety is beyond the writers now.

Edited by Serena
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Lana on Henry and Regina's relationship.

I am disappointed. Regina was an abusive mom who adopted Henry on false premises. Emma had to fight to make sure Henry was going to be alright, and earned her way into his life. This is not about adopted vs biological--this is about normal vs psycho mom who accidentally kills you while trying to poison your other mother. This extreme Regina bias is really making me want to not watch this Show anymore.

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I won't watch the video because I don't want my opinion of Lana to sink even lower, but I'll just say I really dislike the bio vs adopted mother argument. There are countless examples of terrible bio parents on the show that are called out as such, but when it comes to Regina, calling out her horrific abuse means being anti-adoption. I think adoption is a beautiful thing, and I love portrayals of good adopted parents/child relationships on television - The Fosters is just an example of such a show that I love - but pretending that Henry and Regina is such a relationship is abuse erasure and apologism of the highest order. At least with Rumbelle - another relationship which at several points can be deemed abusive - Belle is a grown woman. But Henry is a child, and the way the writers have whitewashed the abuse he received is just disgusting.

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If it was just the first season before they got the anti-adoption backlash, I could understand their whitewash, I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it. But as late as the end of last season, Regina was still abusing Henry. She  told him she was going to kill the rest of his family and then erased his memory when he dared to protest and then still went ahead with her plans to destroy the town. That is abuse. Not mentioning any of these issues isn't going to make them go away. Any parent, be it adoptive or bio parent  or an aunt or grandparent, whether there were other relatives waiting in the wings to take care of the child or not, would have had social services called on them in a real world equivalent situation.

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I am disappointed. Regina was an abusive mom who adopted Henry on false premises. Emma had to fight to make sure Henry was going to be alright, and earned her way into his life. This is not about adopted vs biological--this is about normal vs psycho mom who accidentally kills you while trying to poison your other mother. This extreme Regina bias is really making me want to not watch this Show anymore.

 

The canonization of Regina plus the tainting of Emma's character have also put me off of the show.   By tainting of Emma I mean the fact that she lets Henry have unsupervised contact with Regina, lets him live in the same zip code as her, etc.  That's not what she should be able to contemplate for her son given her own life experiences and her recent first person view of what Evil Queen Regina actually did to people.  This clip where the actress describes Regina's great moments as a mother is beyond whitewashing, it's delusional.  And offensive.  I guess I'm not surprised there are fans who scream and cheer her, but it makes me cringe. 

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The canonization of Regina plus the tainting of Emma's character have also put me off of the show.   By tainting of Emma I mean the fact that she lets Henry have unsupervised contact with Regina, lets him live in the same zip code as her, etc.  That's not what she should be able to contemplate for her son given her own life experiences and her recent first person view of what Evil Queen Regina actually did to people.  This clip where the actress describes Regina's great moments as a mother is beyond whitewashing, it's delusional.  And offensive.  I guess I'm not surprised there are fans who scream and cheer her, but it makes me cringe. 

 

Replying in Regina thread.

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This clip where the actress describes Regina's great moments as a mother is beyond whitewashing, it's delusional.  And offensive.  I guess I'm not surprised there are fans who scream and cheer her, but it makes me cringe. 

 

Lana has clearly switched from koolaid to bleach. I knew about that clip last night and a good nights sleep clearly has not done anything to diminish my anger over her comments. I mean wtf? She's gone into Adam and Eddie status meaning I have no desire to read or listen to her interviews anymore. Which is a bummer because Lana has a great sense of humor and seems like a fun person to be around but her views on her character and the show is just ... no.

 

Agreed with your entire post but especially the last line. I can't even.

Edited by Emma
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Incidentally, if you want some interesting numbers use the filters on FF.net for individual characters on Once and look at the story count for them. Since ff.net is not biased in any way towards anything and is simply a repository for all stories everywhere, I found the numbers fascinating. Emma is in thousands more stories than Regina for example. Now obviously, I wouldn't base anything off of these numbers for any reason, but it's still a fun look since it does cross into all fandoms/ships.

You can also try Archive of Their Own. They also have a relationship filter and it's amazing to see how popular Swan Queen and Rumbelle are in that context.

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I really don't understand why she seems to be the standout star of the show. I mean, I like Lana and stuff, but at all these live events, the crowd seems to cheer her the loudest. I don't get it. Maybe it's a "love to hate Regina" thing or something.

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What's also disappointing is that her comments not only added fuel to the Emma vs Regina debate but also the Jennifer vs Lana one. People are not only sending hate to Jennifer - again - but there are some demanding she respond to Lana's comments. I can't even with this fandom some times.

 

I really hope people don't ask Jennifer about it when she's at the Oz Comic Con in a couple weeks.

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What the frell, people are sending hate to JMo again??? I can't even with this fandom sometimes, either. Some of them are just heinous. I wish they'd all just stop tiptoeing around the batshit crazy element -- that only feeds the madness. I would not want that over-the-top element in any fandom I was a part of. I'd just tell them to knock off the crazy, and if they left, so be it, that would be better for all concerned. If you're sending hate to any actor, you should not be catered to. Of course, that is only one of the reasons I am not involved in any network show!

 

I just want to yell at the people who keep thinking SQ is viable, "Stop trying to make 'fetch' happen!"

Edited by Souris
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Apparently, the SQ shippers were really, really mad at that answer. Personally, I think that's the least offensive answer she gave all con!

 

I just want to yell at the people who keep thinking SQ is viable, "Stop trying to make 'fetch' happen!"

 

I think most of them are really young. We've all had crackships (well, I have) and I remember when I was like 13 or 14, clinging to the hope one of mine would become canon - but, you know, with age comes wisdom and you can realize which ships have a chance to happen and which don't.

Edited by Serena
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Oh, ffs. Isn't one of the definitions of crazy doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Why do these fans continue to ask these questions when they know they're not going to like the answer? The party line from the start of this show has been a delicately delivered, "Swan Queen ain't happenin', guys." And yet, these questions get asked every con and every con there's a shitstorm when they're again delicately told, "Swan Queen ain't happenin', guys." You can tell even in that video that poor Lana is tired of it, and I'm sure everyone else is, too.

 

Non-canon shipping and hunting for subtext can be fun. I remember my mom and I watching rerun episodes of Law & Order and joking about how Jack McCoy and Claire Kincaid were totally doing it. Every time they got into a disagreement, my mom would be all, "Uh oh, he's sleeping on the couch tonight." And on some level, yeah, we were seeing enough subtext to even have the idea but for the most part, we were joking. So, yeah, non-canon shipping can be fun ... as long as you remember that it's non-canon.

 

And now some of them are expecting Jen to address comments that she didn't make and she wasn't even around to hear? I don't get it, I really don't. As Lana said, the actors don't write the show. They just play what they're given. And not that I'm wishing that hate on the writers, because the hate is ridiculous and shouldn't be directed anywhere, but they're getting mad at two people for a direction the story's not taking when those two people have no real control over the direction the story takes.

 

Hey, the misplaced anger is kinda like Regina! :P

Edited by Dani-Ellie
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but, you know, with age comes wisdom and you can realize which ships have a chance to happen and which don't.

 

You're so cute to believe that!  Sadly, age doesn't bring wisdom or maturity to all.  When it comes to the internet and people hiding behind their screens to bully and yell and cry over tv shows and actors, adults bare the brunt of responsibility.  I've seen grown ass women with important jobs (in schools for instance, you know where you're supposed to guide and nurture kids so that they're on their best behavior and they learn how to be in life) bully actors because they were half of a couple on a freakin' tv show.

 

The internet is a cesspool of irrationality like 60% (I'm being generous) of the time if not more.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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You can tell even in that video that poor Lana is tired of it, and I'm sure everyone else is, too.

 

She also seemed protective of Jared to whom the question was also addressed. She probably realizes by now that no matter how the actors answer the question, there is going to be blowback. Better an adult gets attacked via social media than a kid. Sure, Jared has chosen to get into acting, but he should be left out of this battle. He is still a child.

 

Non-canon shipping and hunting for subtext can be fun. I remember my mom and I watching rerun episodes of Law & Order and joking about how Jack McCoy and Claire Kincaid were totally doing it.

 

That one is practically canon. Rene Balcer confirmed that they wrote for them as if they were having an affair. Both Sam and Jill new about it (Jill apparently figured it out, but Sam was told by the producers). There are also hints of it in the scripts after Claire dies.

 

In the case of SQ, the producers have confirmed that it is non-canon and more than likely to stay that way. The actresses are not playing any sub-text. Shipping should be fun...not whatever this has become.

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I'm pretty glad my very favorite shows were filmed before the age of social media, because if they were, I suspect many of the storylines I had enjoyed so much would not have happened. My favorite shows are stuff like Buffy and Veronica Mars, aimed at mostly young demographic, so I'm quite sure they'd have some resonance on Twitter and Facebook and Tumblr. I definitely feel that some modern shows are being influenced by fan opinion a lot, probably too much, and often it's not even the majority of fans, just the most vocal (and, often, batshit crazy) part.

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She probably realizes by now that no matter how the actors answer the question, there is going to be blowback. Better an adult gets attacked via social media than a kid. Sure, Jared has chosen to get into acting, but he should be left out of this battle. He is still a child.

 

Oh, absolutely, which in and of itself is ridiculous. No one should be subjected to it, but Jared definitely should not be subjected to it. 

 

 

That one is practically canon. Rene Balcer confirmed that they wrote for them as if they were having an affair. Both Sam and Jill new about it (Jill apparently figured it out, but Sam was told by the producers).

 

Oh, neat! Haha, I've always said that subtext has to practically be text for me to see it. ;)

 

 

In the case of SQ, the producers have confirmed that it is non-canon and more than likely to stay that way. The actresses are not playing any sub-text. Shipping should be fun...not whatever this has become.

 

Exactly. I know it sucks when your ship doesn't pan out but ... them's the breaks when your ship is non-canon. These people need to listen to what they're being told over and over again, suck it up, and deal with it. That doesn't mean the shippers have to stop shipping. By all means, if SQ is their cup of tea, they should read and write and make manips and gifs to their hearts' content. But constantly asking if it's going to happen and what if it did happen and wouldn't that be wonderful and then flying off the handle when the answer is consistently no isn't going to make it happen.

Edited by Dani-Ellie
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But constantly asking if it's going to happen and what if it did happen and wouldn't that be wonderful and then flying off the handle when the answer is consistently no isn't going to make it happen.

Agreed, but the Swan Queen fandom (or at least the extreme branch we're talking about) clearly seems to thrive on being told "no." So at this point, I don't think it's about making it happen--it's about asking precisely so that you can be told "no," so you can then get pissed and double down on your righteous fury that the show is homophobic and triple down on shipping Swan Queen as some sort of matter of principle.

 

I really don't understand why she seems to be the standout star of the show. I mean, I like Lana and stuff, but at all these live events, the crowd seems to cheer her the loudest. I don't get it. Maybe it's a "love to hate Regina" thing or something.

I think it's a mix of things. Part of it is definitely her looks, as wingster said. Part of it is that she just plays the kind of character that fangirls go wild over, and that love transfers to the actor--just look at how beloved Tom Hiddleston is on tumblr because so many people have convinced themselves that poor wikkle Loki is the biggest victim that ever victimed in the MCU (sound familiar?). Not taking anything away from the actors--they're both good in their roles--but they play the type of character fans are predisposed to adore. And part of it is that Lana feeds the fangirls more than any of the other actors, I think--I mean, imo they're all very nice and very accommodating (more than they ought to be, probably) to the fans, but I think there's a perception that Lana is especially "close" to the fans.

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As far as Swan Queen goes, OUAT has been good about not queer-baiting. That is, writing in homosexual subtext just for fans (all the gay jokes in Sherlock, for instance). But the deluded portion of the SQers still seem to imagine a subtext that does not exist, and want validation from the actors!

I think a lot of Regina's/Lana's popularity derives from the significant and sympathetic screentime her character gets. She is written as the underdog that everyone loves to root for, but without the acutal characteristics of an underdog. Go figure...

Edited by Rumsy4
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So at this point, I don't think it's about making it happen--it's about asking precisely so that you can be told "no," so you can then get pissed and double down on your righteous fury that the show is homophobic and triple down on shipping Swan Queen as some sort of matter of principle.

 

Ugh. And what's awful is that more and more I'm getting the feeling that this one small yet extremely vocal group of the fandom is ruining it for the rest of us. You can't tell me the actors enjoy these shitstorms. I'm sure meeting with the fans is rewarding in its own way but if I were in their shoes, I would have this feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach every time I went to one of these things. Because it happens at every single con and then the cons become more about the drama than, you know, having fun. Cons are so much fun (at least the Supernatural one that I went to was), but drama like that just casts a pall over everything. It's all just so unnecessary.

Edited by Dani-Ellie
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Ugh. And what's awful is that more and more I'm getting the feeling that this one small yet extremely vocal group of the fandom is ruining it for the rest of us.

I agree. Just look at Jennifer. I think she live tweeted every episode but one. Then that last time fans got on her case because they didn't like her answers. After that she didn't live tweet another episode the rest of the season.

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As far as Swan Queen goes, OUAT has been good about not queer-baiting. That is, writing in homosexual subtext just for fans (all the gay jokes in Sherlock, for instance). But the deluded portion of the SQers still seem to imagine a subtext that does not exist, and want validation from the actors!

I think a lot of Regina's/Lana's popularity derives from the significant and sympathetic screentime her character gets. She is written as the underdog that everyone loves to root for, but without the acutal characteristics of an underdog. Go figure...

 

Even if the writers did want to play around with the subtext, to have Henry joke about having two moms or something, I'm betting SQ shippers have sufficiently scared them away from the idea. 

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There are so many questions about 3B which can be asked, from filming details of certain episodes, to cut scenes or script changes, to the actor's head canon on things we don't see like the relationship Emma has with her parents, or how Regina feels about Zelena and Cora now.  What's the point of asking about future plot points the actors have no control over?  This extends to interviews and live tweets too.  Live tweets provide zero interesting information, especially when it's coming from Adam Horowitz, which is Tease Central.

Edited by Camera One

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There are so many questions about 3B which can be asked, from filming details of certain episodes, to cut scenes or script changes, to the actor's head canon on things we don't see like the relationship Emma has with her parents, or how Regina feels about Zelena and Cora now.  What's the point of asking about future plot points the actors have no control over? 

And it isn't just fans -- the hosts of these events are often totally complicit by either begging for spoilers they're never going to get, and asking questions solely to rile up certain fandoms and ships in the audience. This annoys me particularly with Paley, which could at least try to keep up the pretense of being a serious cultural institution. 

 

I'm largely uninterested in what actors think their characters would think about something. I'm generally interested in hearing them talk about acting. 

 

And what's awful is that more and more I'm getting the feeling that this one small yet extremely vocal group of the fandom is ruining it for the rest of us.

 

 

I agree it's a small and vocal minority, but I don't think it's just the Swan Queen folks. There are several rabid factions. 

Edited by retrograde
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 I don't think it's just the Swan Queen folks. There are several rabid factions. 

 

Agreed. I've met rabid, Bad Apple shippers and stans in every corner of the OUAT, including my own Captain Swan fandom. But I tend to unfollow and otherwise ignore them when I can, for the most part. 

 

And I feel for the Swan Queen shippers, especially the nice ones, I really do. I know what it's like to really love a pairing from a show or book, but the writers just don't want to go that direction and it gets sunk. It sucks. But there comes a time when you need to stop trying to push water uphill and accept things in canon as they are, and either stick with the story or move on to something else. Either way, nothing stops you from continuing to ship it via fanfiction if you desire. 

 

Most of all, I just wish the bad apple fans would realize that none of the actors or actresses on OUAT are responsible for what is or what isn't being written into the show and cease the harassment about it, whether it's at a con, on twitter, facebook, or wherever.  It is not okay! 

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And it isn't just fans -- the hosts of these events are often totally complicit by either begging for spoilers they're never going to get, and asking questions solely to rile up certain fandoms and ships in the audience. This annoys me particularly with Paley, which could at least try to keep up the pretense of being a serious cultural institution. 

 

I'm largely uninterested in what actors think their characters would think about something. I'm generally interested in hearing them talk about acting. 

 

I agree it's a small and vocal minority, but I don't think it's just the Swan Queen folks. There are several rabid factions. 

 

Indeed, some SwanFire fans rival for worst fans trophy with attacking Jennifer Morrison on social media, not to mention all the anti-Hook tweeting. Think one can or will find bad apples in any faction of the fandom, though as long as they feel satisfied of course they don't attract attention as such.

 

On the other hand, SwanQueen at times are told that their ship is absolute crazy, not even acceptable as non-canon shipping, because the characters never even would be interested in someone of the same gender. No can't be because. For me there are plenty of other way more effective reasons why Emma and Regina don't fit whatever tension one can see on screen (no intentional subtext, but doesn't exclude that scenes can be read in different ways), gender is not a good reason against that ship.

 

And OUaT lacks diversity, like at least  two third of TV and movie. But as gender is no reason against SwanQueen, diversity is not a good reason for it.

 

It's not just OUaT, just take a look at Agents of Shield panels. Shipping mania. And no, it's not the teenagers, as many assume, making it so bad. Not sure though if it truly was better in the past.

 

Most of the times the cast and crew are handling it rather okay on panels and in interviews, although think that the warped humor of Horowitz and Kitsis eludes many people. 

 

I find it though interesting, what actors think their characters are thinking, but more in the venue of how they prepare for the role, how they work on it, develop it, work with the material they get from the writers, their interpretation of the character, what they think the characters are thinking is part of the acting choices they make. I want to talk about their art. Like it was really interesting to hear, that Carlyle looked at comedia dell'arte and that his own son inspired him, or that Ginnifer Goodwin did some research and realized, that there is a certain vanity in the character of Snow White. That is interesting stuff.  Couldn't care less about spoilers, despite that speculating about story development is a lot of fun, but it's even more fun IMO without revealing spoilers, it's about developing the story based on what has been done so far which is the real thrill, and then see if the writers agree with it or have a different take. Let my imagination fly and not be bothered what the writers have in store, I can later rant about their writing choices. But neither do I mind spoilers, regularly skip to the end of a book or book series or movie just to know the end, and then go from the beginning and enjoy the ride, it's less about where something ends, more about how it is told.

 

What are the next, upcoming cons where we can see more shipping and spoiler drama unfold besides of course ComicCon? Has someone an overview?

Edited by katusch

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On the other hand, SwanQueen at times are told that their ship is absolute crazy, not even acceptable as non-canon shipping, because the characters never even would be interested in someone of the same gender. No can't be because. For me there are plenty of other way more effective reasons why Emma and Regina don't fit whatever tension one can see on screen (no intentional subtext, but doesn't exclude that scenes can be read in different ways), gender is not a good reason against that ship.

Yeah, agreed, and I'm generally pretty tolerant of it because of this. I don't personally see any chemistry or UST between Emma and Regine, nor do I think the actors or writers have been deliberately queer baiting, but I do think the huge popularity of SQ speaks to a very genuine desire out there for more same-sex couplings in mainstream TV. And I think maybe the reason some people ask the actors about it is precisely to get the validation that their feelings about this are heard and taken seriously, more so than they actually care what the actors think.

 

I find it though interesting, what actors think their characters are thinking, but more in the venue of how they prepare for the role, how they work on it, develop it, work with the material they get from the writers, their interpretation of the character, what they think the characters are thinking is part of the acting choices they make. I want to talk about their art.

Oh yeah, I'm totally with you in this respect. I'm happy to hear about what they were imagining their character was thinking in X scene and where that came from and whose idea it was, etc. I just don't care about the 50th round of "Hey Ginnifer and Josh, what do you think Snow and Charming would think about their daughter dating Hook?"

What are the next, upcoming cons where we can see more shipping and spoiler drama unfold besides of course ComicCon? Has someone an overview?

 

I know Jennifer Morrison is going to Oz Comic Con just before filming starts. 

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Agreed. I've met rabid, Bad Apple shippers and stans in every corner of the OUAT, including my own Captain Swan fandom. But I tend to unfollow and otherwise ignore them when I can, for the most part.

 

Oh, I completely agree that it's not just Swan Queen, but that's part of my problem. I don't understand how any of these people can truly consider themselves fans when they're so disrespectful to the actors playing the characters they supposedly love. And I don't understand how these people also have so little respect for their fellow fans that they, no matter the ship they're representing, continue to do this every single time the actors appear anywhere.

 

That disrespect is even worse when it's a con because that one con may be the only one some of the other fans in that room will ever go to. Yeah, the con organizers and the actors work to make it fun, but the fans have to work to make it fun, too. Causing drama like this, especially by asking baiting questions they already know the answer to and they know they're not going to like, is so ... rude and unnecessary.

 

But then again, what do I expect from people who think it's okay to sling internet hate at the actors? That's also rude and unnecessary. I just can't imagine anyone saying the hateful things that get tossed around over Twitter/Facebook/whatever to the person's face. There's a reason the saying, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" exists. I'm not saying they have to agree with everything an actor says, but a respectful rebuttal tends to go a lot further than a hate-filled rant. Drama like this is why people leave fandom, and why actors pull away from social media, which, again, is ruining it for the rest of us.

Edited by Dani-Ellie
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