S17.E13: Forty-One Witnesses

[WendyCR72]

A week off before this one airs, gang:

 

A woman is followed home and raped outside her building, where several neighbors witness the crime but fail to call for help.

[FozzyBear]

So it's a Kitty Genoviese thing?

[Save Yourself]

They love doing 'the bystander effect' thing, I feel like they've done 50 of those. And of course Liv had to explain it to her experienced detectives because they never would have encountered it before. (Instead of exposition they could have a text scroll at the bottom of the screen 'this is called the bystander effect yadda, yadda, yadda lol) I do find it hard to believe that nobody at the games place questioned those guys (actually I think 1 person did but it was very half-hearted), particularly when it was a known place to score drugs or that the lady who called the police didn't walk away while she did it, those guys were obviously bad news. And after all these SVU episodes about the bystander effect wouldn't someone in the apartment blocks have seen those so knew they should call? They could have had their first meta episode in the L&O universe!

 

Carisi and Barba had a great sparring session - do you think the writers are taking heed of our advice on here? :)  Carisi was great getting all cranky pants about the New Yorkers not looking out for each other. And Amanda was all 'taking it personal because Moms' - looking forward to recap as I'm not sure when Finn spoke for us all! That's sad only being able to have 8 weeks maternity leave, I wonder who is looking after her baby? Dodds was MIA most of the episode which is a shame, I'm starting to like him. Glad to see the whole team watching the trial and putting the other sex crime cases on hold. When that witness turned up drunk it was actually pretty funny, especially because he admitted it immediately when asked both to Barba and on the stand. The eidetic memory thing was cool, you could see Barba mentally saying 'and that's how you do it bitches!' *drops the mic*.

[Primetimer]

When a courtyard assault goes unreported by dozens of neighbors, the Law & Order: SVU squad has its work cut out.

Read the story

[Spartan Girl]

So Olivia officially has a drinking problem now? *tired sigh*

Best part was Carisi's contempt for the bystanders. Fingers crossed that he or somebody else rips the daft cow that breaks out Rudnick and Yates out next week a new one.

[WendyCR72]

So Olivia officially has a drinking problem now? *tired sigh*

 

I'm sincerely shocked it took 17 seasons to go there, considering the number of times she has been kidnapped, nearly raped, tortured, etc. That said, Benson's sturm und drang got old at least five seasons ago.

 

But yes! Let's bring on the booze issues!

[CleoCaesar]

A pretty stale episode. Not bad, not good. Boring old territory.

 

The only little detail I liked was that the episode showed that it's not black-and-white - the one lady who did call the police was hurt by one of the criminals pretty much immediately. I think everyone thinks "well I wouldn't have been a coward and I would have called the police right away" - it's really not that clear-cut in real life.

[StaceyNotStacie]

This wasn't one of the better episodes of the season.  I liked that Rollins was back and I liked that the defendants were found guilty, but I didn't really care for the episode.  When the neighbor stopped by the victim's apartment and Rollins and Carisi questioned him, I was wondering if there was going to be a twist where the neighbor was the actual rapist.

 

The last minute with Olivia was more interesting than the rest of the episode.  I want to know who Olivia was talking to on the phone.

[LizDC]

So Olivia officially has a drinking problem now? *tired sigh*

Maybe (hopefully) she'll drink herself out of her job.

[solequeene]

I liked it. I was expecting the neighbour to be the perp somehow and more of a deal to be made of the youngest of the attackers, but it was a well done episode. Barba was fun and effective (and I want hm interacting with Henderson all the time), Carisi was amazing and I'm glad to see Rollins back. Her maternity-inspired righteousness will get annoying soon, though.

 

The last scene was interestig and I want to see how the handle it. Some development for Olivia based on her own demons instead of random dudes assaulting her can be interestig. And I'd like her mother's own addiction to come back if they do this arc.

[Ashura77]

Average episode, it is a pity that after that many seasons the writers can't find "rarer" cases instead of heating up the old ones.

Liv Liv Liv, no comment on the "drinking problem" issue, after all of her "troubles", the utterly boring and pointless baby drama, now that? Wow, how amazingly innovative...

And am I the only one having found Rollins impossibly annoying? The facial expressions, it's either the actress and a limited range or the writers wanting to make Rollins come over as slightly touched in her head, but geez was she annoying.
Close to the "Lori Effect" on TWD, right now I just want her to tumble under a truck, and fast.

[MorbidPet]

I don't like two-faced characters and I really don't like it when they do it to my favorite character. I'm not a fan of Amanda's harsh words towards the victim and she becomes a mom and all of a sudden are judgemental regarding addictions, she if anyone should know better. This was my one big worry with them writing in KG's pregancy in to the show - that she'd become a complete bore. Trying to find some defense for her behavior though I wonder if the didn't use her and her dialogue to forshadow Liv & the bottle. Another reason for me to hate the writers.  

 

So not interested in who Liv was on the phone with and her hitting the bottle, cause we know they are coming as this is Liv after all. Sigh. I would've much rather see them go the route with Barba and pills. 

 

Barba was on point. I do like Carisi but my gawd he runs like a cartoon character, pls stop that. Dodds Jr didn't annoy me this episode but then again I can't remember any of his scenes either, oh yeah that one with Rollins where Fin would've given her a "I get you girl"-look but Dodds failed to even look at her. I am apologizing in advance though cause I will rip Karl's new haircut to pieces once he flashes that on screen, so frickin unflattering and I can't wait to see him get killed off in the season finale. 

 

I think Abby Miller did a good job and it's always fun to see someone who can play drunk well, kudos Patrick Breen. Still the episode didn't grip me and I find myself having forgotten most of the episode now two days after I've seen it (thank you Canada?) 

[wknt3]

The Good:

Fin telling "New Jersey" to "get out of here!"

Barba in court.

Solid acting all around.

They seem to be getting a handle on Dodds and figuring out how to write him as a human being.

 

The Bad:

Their handle on Carisi seems to be slipping a bit. This is the second episode in a row that has had a little too much of the old annoying goofball Carisi that doesn't know what's up (as opposed to charming goofball Carisi who does know what's going on).

Speaking of the return of bad SVU writing past - the clunky exposition.

Rollins being annoying.
Liv and her giant glass of wine. Like everyone else has said I don't care. I don't care about her trauma, I don't care about the aftermath. I don't care about Noah. I don't care about her love life. I don't care what else you come up with to ruin this great character thinking it's Acting.

 

Overall this was another OK episode. Not terrible, not great. Not much to say really.

[txhorns79]

I was thinking they did a very similar episode on the mothership many years ago. I remember they set it up as the crime having happened in the 60s (so it basically was the Kitty Genovese case with a few different details), and the perp was getting a new trial because of problems with how he was questioned during pre-Miranda days.

I kind of roll my eyes at Liv's drinking problem. Given all the seasons of her being a child of rape, her mother's drinking problems, Elliot's rage issues and the near rapes/hostage takings she has been involved in, it's shocking she hasn't descended entirely into madness by this point.

[Princess Lucky]

The last scene made me feel like I was watching Cougar Town, except Liv's glass was too small. And she was using a video baby monitor instead of straight-up drinking over Noah's bed.

 

Also, it was totally Tucker on the phone. Come on.

 

In seriousness, I thought nothing of it at the time, but when Rollins was judging the victim about being an addict and a mother, Benson seemed defensive. I thought she was just being knowledgeable and non-judgmental (lol as if) but in retrospect maybe she was saying "chill out Rollins, I down a couple of bottles of wine every night and I'm still a great mother".

 

Overall, this was a decent episode. Heavy-handed, but what else is new. A decent case, some interesting twists (all of which were telegraphed but oh well), a nice ending to wrap everything up, more scenes of the trial (which I always appreciate).

 

Also, according to my personal standard for SVU viewing (i.e. Carisi's screentime), this episode was amazing. Carisi ran, Carisi got mad, Carisi gave Barba some lip (not like that!), Carisi held a puppy. A+ writing!

 

Their handle on Carisi seems to be slipping a bit. This is the second episode in a row that has had a little too much of the old annoying goofball Carisi that doesn't know what's up (as opposed to charming goofball Carisi who does know what's going on).

 

I would agree, except they also had Carisi basically solve the entire case by himself, by getting the video and then not only finding the witness but also convincing him to testify. He even got praised by Benson twice in the same episode. Carisi isn't regressing, which is something I always fear (because he's the best and please writers don't ruin him!).

 

I think the writers just needed to use a character to hit us over the head with, to sell the episode's theme, and they used Carisi because he's the only one who is innocent and sweet enough to believably say "omg I can't believe people can just sit by and watch as someone gets hurt, the humanity!" Like, imagine Fin saying that. Or Rollins. Rollins would probably say "huh, figures, plus she had it coming anyway". Carisi is precious, and he also manages to get angry without Getting!Angry!, so I didn't mind his characterisation in this episode all that much. He was maybe a little out of character, but not like previous times, when he's been made to look like a total idiot.

 

Oh and he keeps talking about the bar exam. That's gotta mean he'll eventually take it. I hope we get to see that.

 

Lastly, it was good to see Patrick Breen. That was a nice scene, with Carisi. That whole "everybody screws up". Great acting by both. I like it when the show gives random guest stars a character beat.

[fivestone]

I'm disappointed that Amanda's turned into a sanctimommy, but I loved Carisi in this episode. He was so endearing and basically solved the case singlehandedly and got the most compelling witness to come forward.

 

Dodds has grown on me, so I don't mind if they use more of him. But I am curious about where they go with Fin. They haven't focused on him so much in a while, with the exception of Dodds basically saying that Fin is not so much of a go-getter on the job. I like this version of Olivia much better than the one from the Elliot days, but I wish they didn't feel the need to endanger her or Noah throughout the season. Like somebody else said, she has enough of her demons to work out that they could focus on that without throwing her into another attempted rape scene or whatever.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

 

Carisi ran, Carisi got mad, Carisi gave Barba some lip (not like that!), Carisi held a puppy. A+ writing!

It doesn't suck for people covering the ep, I'll say that.

 

I suspect we're not seeing a ton of Fin because of the impending...Icicle? He does manage to get in his "civilian, please" faces each episode regardless of how little time he's onscreen, though, bless his heart.

[Zoe]

So Olivia officially has a drinking problem now? *tired sigh*

They were already going in this direction when she first moved in with Cassidy. I'm surprised they dropped it back then.

[Raja]

So it's a Kitty Genoviese thing?

Ripped from the history books

[psychoticstate]

I love Carisi. When he and Barba are both in the episode, I am quite the happy little camper.

Amanda's self righteousness and preaching/judging about how someone cannot have addictions when they are a mom makes me want to throat punch her. She was an addict about five minutes ago so STFU.

Benson's going to have a drinking problem now? Please no. It would have made more sense to have happened after the whole William Lewis mess.

BTW, I love Carisi.

[Spartan Girl]

Maybe (hopefully) she'll drink herself out of her job.

Seriously, it's obvious she can't take it anymore.  Cragen, Munch, and even Stabler left when they couldn't handle it anymore.  Olivia passed that point at least three seasons ago.

[solequeene]

Seriously, it's obvious she can't take it anymore. Cragen, Munch, and even Stabler left when they couldn't handle it anymore. Olivia passed that point at least three seasons ago.

The thing is that a) she has a messiah complex and b) she doesn't have anywhere to go. Munch is an investigator for the DA office, Cragen found love again and Stabler has his family. Olivia has Noah but her whole life is shaped by being in SVU.

Now, that I want to see explored.

Edited February 4, 2016 by solequeene

[slowpoked]

So are we supposed to think Tucker is the person on the other line?

 

I actually liked this episode. I really thought they were going to lose the case until the twist in the end. 

 

Unlike most, I don't share too much in the Carisi love, but I liked him here. I like how there were juxtapositions of different reactions of people being around a real crime, and people being around police apprehending criminals. When people sense a case of police "brutality", no matter how insignificant or justified it may be, people have no problems whipping out their cellphones and trying to get ahold of the best footage to upload to social media so they can cry injustice. But when they witness a real crime happening, they turn their backs away. I mean, if not for that law student who did get out her cellphone to videotape the men, they would have had no case at all.

 

I also like the irony of how the functioning alcoholic became their best, most reliable witness, instead of the "normal" folks in the correct state of mind who just looked away. After that jury scene, I can see the invisible mic drop that Barba just did. 

 

And hey, Barba gets to do more for the second episode in a row!!!

[Scamp]

The episode was obviously based on the rape and murder of Kitty Genovese in 1964.  Then a gay man was afraid to call the police (there was no 911 service, calls went to the local precinct) for fear of the cops.  

 

A lot was changed for the TV case, but I think it was unfair to have another gay man as THE person who let Libby down.  Many people did.

[Setra]

They were already going in this direction when she first moved in with Cassidy. I'm surprised they dropped it back then.

Thank you! I was searching my brain and couldn't get there.

[maxineofarc]

That's sad only being able to have 8 weeks maternity leave

Wondering if you are from a country with more family friendly laws than us (so... most of them), but that's pretty normal in the US.

[Ziz]

I don't remember that! What happened with Cassidy?

[slowpoked]

 

A lot was changed for the TV case, but I think it was unfair to have another gay man as THE person who let Libby down.  Many people did.

I don't think that was the intention though. After all, he ended up winning the case for Libby. I think the apology was because they were friends, not just neighbors, and so I think it's just right that Libby expected more from him than from her other neighbors.

[WendyCR72]

Seriously, it's obvious she can't take it anymore.  Cragen, Munch, and even Stabler left when they couldn't handle it anymore.  Olivia passed that point at least three seasons ago.

 

Waaaaaaaay back when cavemen invented fire and SVU started, I remember a few lines about how those in SVU only stick around for two or so years because of burnout. All of these folks are looooooooooong past their tolerance rate, in that case.

[Bananna]

Eh, this episode was fine but boring. Are the writers trying to make people sympathise with Liv by making Rollins judgemental towards victims? At this point, I don't think I'd care if Liv started a drugs ring supplying to minors. So, I really don't care that she's becoming an alcoholic.

 

The guy having a photographic memory reeked of deus ex machina, but it was a nice twist kind of. I don't remember an episode where they've done it, so it was kinda original?

 

I don't have a lot to say, the acting was good, but a perfectly adequete episode.

[DaynaPhile]

Best moment...Barba having a fit in the lobby of the courthouse about his drunk witness "great memory, no morality, fantastic!" And then it turns out to be his "Boom! That's how it's done, baby" moment.

I think I have a goose-egg on my head from being smacked with the foreshadowing about Liv's upcoming drinking problem. Can I get some Ice please? But honestly, I think it will be fun to see her try and do her job and be an alcoholic. Wait, that came out wrong...

[theredhead77]

I checked out of SVU during Stabler's last season but I do watch once in awhile. 

 

I loved the final witness and his Eidetic memory. I'm glad his friend didn't forgive him for not intervening . But what i really came here to say is I'm just going to pretend Olivia was talking to Voight. 

[auchic]

I like how there were juxtapositions of different reactions of people being around a real crime, and people being around police apprehending criminals. When people sense a case of police "brutality", no matter how insignificant or justified it may be, people have no problems whipping out their cellphones and trying to get ahold of the best footage to upload to social media so they can cry injustice. But when they witness a real crime happening, they turn their backs away. I mean, if not for that law student who did get out her cellphone to videotape the men, they would have had no case at all.

 

Excellent observation.

 

Usually any media that perpetuates the myths behind Kitty Genovese's murder gets my dander up, but I didn't mind this episode that much. Even though the episode was called "41 Witnesses", in the end only a half dozen people saw bits and pieces of the attack and either tried to call for help or were frozen afraid - which is exactly what happened in Kitty's case. Not that it makes what the few witnesses did any better, but like we saw with Doug, they have to live and cope with their inaction.

 

Angry for Justice!Carisi was wonderful. Watching him and Barba snip at each other while Liv rolled her eyes made me laugh so hard. 

 

Stress leave, PTSD leave, rehab, whatever, if it gets Olivia and her issues off the show for a bit, I'm all for it.

[Zoe]

I don't remember that! What happened with Cassidy?

Nothing specific to Cassidy--they just made a point of showing her breaking out a bottle (or two or three) of wine almost every time she was home.

[GarnetGirl]

The writers seem to be making a big deal of who Olivia was on the phone with like they did the time that she went on the plane with the mystery man (that turned out to be Cassidy, I think?) I still don't understand why anyone would want to be in a relationship with her, and now they're throwing a drinking problem into the mix? She should be walking around with a Danger! Do Not Enter! sign.

Barba and Carisi arguing- awesome as always. I love when Barba goes apoplectic over witnesses. I hope Daveed Diggs is able to come back for more episodes- I like his energy.

[Save Yourself]

Wondering if you are from a country with more family friendly laws than us (so... most of them), but that's pretty normal in the US.

Yes I'm Australian and we get 18 weeks paid leave (which is legislative) and some companies offer more. Most women take a minimum of 6 months off and a lot take 12 months (it's law that the job is kept open for 12 months). I'm aware of the small amount of mat leave and annual leave in the US, it must be very difficult. I liked that Carisi made a point the other week of how little mat leave Rollins could take.

Waaaaaaaay back when cavemen invented fire and SVU started, I remember a few lines about how those in SVU only stick around for two or so years because of burnout. All of these folks are looooooooooong past their tolerance rate, in that case.

Yes I remember them saying that and even as far back as season 1 when Cassidy left they talked about how tough the gig is and people don't stick around.

At this point, I don't think I'd care if Liv started a drugs ring supplying to minors.

Omg, I would love that! That would be the best show ever - Dick Wolf get on it!

[Save Yourself]

Excellent observation.

 

Usually any media that perpetuates the myths behind Kitty Genovese's murder gets my dander up, but I didn't mind this episode that much. Even though the episode was called "41 Witnesses", in the end only a half dozen people saw bits and pieces of the attack and either tried to call for help or were frozen afraid - which is exactly what happened in Kitty's case. Not that it makes what the few witnesses did any better, but like we saw with Doug, they have to live and cope with their inaction.

After some of you mentioned the Kitty Genovese case I looked up the old newspaper reports. It seemed awful with one witness saying they were too tired to call, another didn't want to get involved. I know it was a long time ago but is it that scary to call the police? I live in a bit of a rough area and often call the police when something bad is happening - of course I wouldn't want the perpetrator know and I wouldn't put myself in harms way by directly intervening (although I might depending on the circumstances) but the police don't tell them who reported it. Last week this guy was beating up another one and I was the only one who called and the police were there within minutes. It was broad daylight and loads of people around but none tried to help. Once I was sexually assaulted in the street in the city in peak hour and was screaming for help and no one stopped.

[theredhead77]

After some of you mentioned the Kitty Genovese case I looked up the old newspaper reports. It seemed awful with one witness saying they were too tired to call, another didn't want to get involved. I know it was a long time ago but is it that scary to call the police? I live in a bit of a rough area and often call the police when something bad is happening - of course I wouldn't want the perpetrator know and I wouldn't put myself in harms way by directly intervening (although I might depending on the circumstances) but the police don't tell them who reported it. 

I often call the non-emergency number to report things that don't need 911 or ca be redirected as an emergency if needed. There's an asshole who shoots off fireworks nightly, around midnight / 1am. 911 won't get the police here any faster. But our non-emergency number is answered on the first ring. I refuse to give my name, address and request no follow-up. I'm sure they could pull my phone number and find me if they really need to.

[Save Yourself]

The last scene made me feel like I was watching Cougar Town, except Liv's glass was too small. And she was using a video baby monitor instead of straight-up drinking over Noah's bed.

 

Also, it was totally Tucker on the phone. Come on.

 

Oh and he keeps talking about the bar exam. That's gotta mean he'll eventually take it. I hope we get to see that.

 

Lastly, it was good to see Patrick Breen. That was a nice scene, with Carisi. That whole "everybody screws up". Great acting by both. I like it when the show gives random guest stars a character beat.

Hahaha, that glass was the size of a fishbowl! It was ridiculous. I can understand if Olivia is an alcoholic with her mother's history but gosh, I just can't take any more Liv drama, it's a wonder she hasn't been institutionalised by now. Wouldn't the NYPD have forced her to retire with everything that's happened? It's a dramatic show anyway with just the cases, I don't feel it adds anything other than annoyance by crappy things happening to the squad.

I wonder what will happen if Carisi passes the bar? He and Barba do a spin off show? PLEASE PLEASE TPTB!

Yes the scene between Carisi and the star witness was really good, I love how Carisi is generally pretty non-judgemental (except with witnesses who don't call the cops!).

[Save Yourself]

I often call the non-emergency number to report things that don't need 911 or ca be redirected as an emergency if needed. There's an asshole who shoots off fireworks nightly, around midnight / 1am. 911 won't get the police here any faster. But our non-emergency number is answered on the first ring. I refuse to give my name, address and request no follow-up. I'm sure they could pull my phone number and find me if they really need to.

With that sort of thing - asshole neighbours - we can call our local police station direct and they respond to every report but it can take hours cause of prioritising which is understandable but so frustrating when you are having to put up with things like that. My neighbour likes to play gansgster rap music for 12 hours at a time that you can hear 2 blocks away and hang out the window screaming dreadful, frightening things and it's been so hard to do anything about it. When he beat up this guy up the other week though 10 police turned up! They are dying to be able to arrest him because of all the trouble he causes here.

I was surprised at Rollins, she's not usually all judgemental like that, it was very out of character. I hope they don't have her being continually all high and mighty just because she has a kid now, doesn't do much to help with positive public perception of working mothers. If anything it would be interesting to see her go the other way - wanting to get support for mums who need help.

[GarnetGirl]

I wonder what will happen if Carisi passes the bar? He and Barba do a spin off show? PLEASE PLEASE TPTB!

YES!!

[Kel Varnsen]

I checked out of SVU during Stabler's last season but I do watch once in awhile. 

 

I loved the final witness and his Eidetic memory. I'm glad his friend didn't forgive him for not intervening . But what i really came here to say is I'm just going to pretend Olivia was talking to Voight. 

The Eidetic memory thing made me laugh. Totally reminded me of this classic Simpsons bit:

 

 

The defense lawyer should have tried that Lionel Hutz move after Barba did his trick with the guy and the jury.

[auchic]

After some of you mentioned the Kitty Genovese case I looked up the old newspaper reports. It seemed awful with one witness saying they were too tired to call, another didn't want to get involved. I know it was a long time ago but is it that scary to call the police? 

 

The difference between today and New York in 1964 is that there was no 911; you called the switchboard operator and she would notify police, or she would transfer you, but not necessarily to the right department, and police were oftentimes slow to follow up on reports of domestic violence (which most witnesses thought this was). The witness that didn't want to get involved was gay, and didn't want that coming out. As for the other people, it was 3AM and the few people that were up and saw anything didn't realise that she was being stabbed (again, they thought it was a fight between lovers), yelled at the attacker, who ran away and came back later when Kitty was out of sight.

 

Not that this absolves any the people who could have done more, but there's so much misinformation about the case and people linking it with bystander effect that no one recognises the people who DID do something.

[Snookums]

I do like Carisi but my gawd he runs like a cartoon character

 

 

He's hilarious! Flailing around like a spider monkey. 

 

I think Rollins is being judgmental as a way of reinforcing her own sobriety/separating herself from how she "used" to be. She's a single mom with no family support (to say the least) and I'm sure she's terrified of becoming like the rest of her epically fucked up relations and not being able to do right by this tiny helpless creature that she loves so much. She wouldn't be the first person in recovery to take the Sanctimony Train out of fear if slipping. And Olivia not wanting to hear it, and pretending it's because the self-righteousness is annoying and not because Baby Noah isn't turning out to be her cure-all/bulwark against the relentless tide of shit that is her life. Glug glug glug.

 

Definitely Tucker on the phone. Will take the round the world cruise on that ship.

 

The premise of "I saw something awful, kinda I think but..." and "film it all, it's almost the same as actually doing something!" were really quite well handled.  How everybody can't wait to film a crime but not call it in, post it on YouTube but not be a witness. And Carisi not even caring that he comes across as dopey for calling people out for their selfishness.  To hell with it, they need to hear it from someone.

[candall]

After some of you mentioned the Kitty Genovese case I looked up the old newspaper reports. It seemed awful with one witness saying they were too tired to call, another didn't want to get involved. I know it was a long time ago but is it that scary to call the police? I live in a bit of a rough area and often call the police when something bad is happening - of course I wouldn't want the perpetrator know and I wouldn't put myself in harms way by directly intervening (although I might depending on the circumstances) but the police don't tell them who reported it. Last week this guy was beating up another one and I was the only one who called and the police were there within minutes. It was broad daylight and loads of people around but none tried to help. Once I was sexually assaulted in the street in the city in peak hour and was screaming for help and no one stopped.

See, this is exactly what I'm afraid of--that they aren't harking back to the dark old days of Kitty Genovese, but doing what they typically do:  highlighting a real-life scenario.  I find it unfathomable that people would sit in the security of a well-lit coffee shop and watch three men zero in on a semi-conscious woman, roust her up and hustle her out the door.

 

But SaveYourself tells me I need to start believing it.  [i'm so sorry that happened, SY.]

 

The difference between today and New York in 1964 is that there was no 911;

Exactly.  It's the whole point of "911," plus everyone has a cellphone surgically embedded into his hand these days.  I've made a couple of "this may be nothing" calls--but what are you going to do, let someone get hurt so you don't risk looking foolish?

 

One call I made was hearing a woman shrieking. . .screaming? laughing?. . .in my neighborhood.  Mental note:  if you're in trouble, yell "911" instead of "Help."

 

Liv guzzling that wine was pretty funny for the sledgehammer foreshadowing.  glug glug glug  Alicia Florrick, the Good Wife, has graduated to the hard stuff, but it's still a race to the finish for the alcoholic storyline.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I felt like the writing was in all caps this episode.

 

HI I'M ROLLINS! ADDICTS CAN'T GO ADDICTING AROUND WHEN THEY HAVE KIDS. JUST SAYING. BTW THIS HAS NOTHING WITH LIV BECOMING ADDICTED JUST LIKE HER MOM WHICH WOULD BE IRONIC.

 

HI I'M BENSON! I AM BECOMING AN ALCOHOLIC AND I HAVE A KID. I MENTION THIS FOR NO REASON. DEFINITELY NOT FUTURE TENSION BETWEEN MYSELF AND ROLLINS WHO BTW IS A GAMBLING ADDICT.

[Save Yourself]

The difference between today and New York in 1964 is that there was no 911; you called the switchboard operator and she would notify police, or she would transfer you, but not necessarily to the right department, and police were oftentimes slow to follow up on reports of domestic violence (which most witnesses thought this was). The witness that didn't want to get involved was gay, and didn't want that coming out. As for the other people, it was 3AM and the few people that were up and saw anything didn't realise that she was being stabbed (again, they thought it was a fight between lovers), yelled at the attacker, who ran away and came back later when Kitty was out of sight.

Not that this absolves any the people who could have done more, but there's so much misinformation about the case and people linking it with bystander effect that no one recognises the people who DID do something.

I saw that they had the option of calling 'O' (operator) or this really long letter/number combo that would be impossible to remember! It's a wonder anyone could get through to the police back then.

[Save Yourself]

See, this is exactly what I'm afraid of--that they aren't harking back to the dark old days of Kitty Genovese, but doing what they typically do: highlighting a real-life scenario. I find it unfathomable that people would sit in the security of a well-lit coffee shop and watch three men zero in on a semi-conscious woman, roust her up and hustle her out the door.

But SaveYourself tells me I need to start believing it. [i'm so sorry that happened, SY.]

Exactly. It's the whole point of "911," plus everyone has a cellphone surgically embedded into his hand these days. I've made a couple of "this may be nothing" calls--but what are you going to do, let someone get hurt so you don't risk looking foolish?

One call I made was hearing a woman shrieking. . .screaming? laughing?. . .in my neighborhood. Mental note: if you're in trouble, yell "911" instead of "Help."

Liv guzzling that wine was pretty funny for the sledgehammer foreshadowing. glug glug glug Alicia Florrick, the Good Wife, has graduated to the hard stuff, but it's still a race to the finish for the alcoholic storyline.

Even after what happened with me I still find it hard to believe what happened in the cafe in this episode. As you said it was a well-lit place and it was busy, there were enough people there to band together to stop them from taking her, especially when she was so obviously out of it. I don't get either the people in the apartment building not bothering to call 911 when they could see something bad was happening, there needs to be legal requirements for witnesses to report acts of violence.

I don't know why I didn't get help in my situation, it was about 10 years ago, I would hope now that at least one person would ask if I was ok.

I'm the same as you with the should I/shouldn't I police calls - if I'm not sure I just call the non-emergency line so they can decide. I recently did a first aid course and they said you should also always call if you are worried in a health situation, it's better for the professionals to assess the issue. Re yelling help or 911, I've heard the best thing to yell is 'fire' because (unfortunately!) it appeals to people's self interest, they investigate to make sure the fire won't affect them!

Edited to add: the guy who was being beaten up last week was calling out for someone to phone the police and someone literally said to him I don't want to get involved! I hid behind some bushes and called lol - it made sense not to do it right in front of the violent dude because it could have made things worse but to not call at all? I really don't understand our society sometimes.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Save Yourself

[chick binewski]

In my mind Liv was on the phone with Elliot because I've got nothing going on right now so I'm still looking forward to a Barba/Stabler face-off. And then Carisi can follow Stabler around like a puppy, asking him to tell the Monkey Basketball story one more time.

An Olivia fishbowling wine story could be good...if we hadn't already had Rollins' addiction shenanigans shoved down our throats. Also, I can't with the Chicago PD crossovers so I think I've blocked out the serial killers (?) returning next week. I may have to re-watch just because I still have Milton TWD love for Dallas Roberts.

[Snookums]

but doing what they typically do:  highlighting a real-life scenario.

 

 

Tragically yes, as mentioned in the recap:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Richmond_High_School_gang_rape