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S02.E04: The Jade Crusade

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If Jade turns out like Cat Marnell, she'll be a high priced disaster who'll barely have any work to show. Marnell has been working on her memoir for like 2 or 3 years.

I know that the picture of Charles' junk is a little bit embarrassing, but it's not like the shit that went down with Gawker and Tim Geithner's brother. That shit was heinous and catastrophic. So the world knows you have a big dick. Millions, maybe billions, of men wish they have what you have. Stunt a little.

But I really liked this episode. It was the first episode that felt a little inside baseball, but in a good approachable way. The details heightened the story. But if you weren't familiar with them, it didn't detract.

Edited by HunterHunted
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Way to go there, Captain Authentic.

I think I was happier with this show when it was a little more Ugly Betty and a little less Friends. It's kind of hard to take the emotional stuff seriously when it's plopped down in the middle of a pile of wacky hijinks.

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I thought it was a bit too convenient that Josh and Jade had dated. I wonder if Jade's book will eventually get published. She's a hot mess, and Kelsey needs to get that first book out sooner rather than later. 

 

It was great to see Michael Urie again. He's always a delight.

 

Overall, I thought this episode was something of a snooze.

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If Jade turns out like Cat Marnell, she'll be a high priced disaster who'll barely have any work to show. Marnell has been working on her memoir for like 2 or 3 years.

I know that the picture of Charles' junk is a little bit embarrassing, but it's not like the shit that went down with Gawker and Tim Geithner's brother. That shit was heinous and catastrophic. So the world knows you have a big dick. Millions, maybe billions, of men wish they have what you have. Stunt a little.

But I really liked this episode. It was the first episode that felt a little inside baseball, but in a good approachable way. The details heightened the story. But if you weren't familiar with them, it didn't detract.

Cat Marnell was the first thing I thought of!  And I'm not gonna lie;  I loved the contact high that I got off of her xojane beauty articles, and I kinda can't wait for her memoir (if it happens, that is)

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I'm no prude, but does this show have to be so explicitly R-rated?  I have to put parental controls on the TV Land channel, just to be safe!

 

I did like Josh's strategy to get rid of Jade ... as he said, "kill two birds with one stone, sleep with a model, and get her to break up with me."

 

Hey, don't knock family photos where everyone is wearing jeans!  My family did a photo shoot like that this past fall, just not with such a corny pose.

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I found myself feeling slightly confused about this episode.  I understand that they wanted Josh to go through that apology scene just to get Jade signed.  What I don't understand is why outside of the Jade apology, they treated it as though Josh was the only one who did wrong in the relationship between him and Jade.  Sure, maybe his sleeping with someone else was in poor taste, but he just explained how Jade was all but stalking him and refused to listen to no.  That's really bad.  She wouldn't allow the relationship to end and so repeatedly broke into his apartment by climbing up the fire escape and forcing the relationship to continue. There are very serious consent issues here and I'm so surprised none of the other characters acknowledged this.  

 

I'll probably go back to rewatch later because it's very possible that I misunderstood something.  I'm hoping I did.  

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I had the same takeaway, Lion. Seems to me that if Josh tried to break up with Jade and she wouldn't acknowledge it, that's essentially stalking. I don't see anything wrong with the measures he took to get rid of her.

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I say this about every show so I don't really know what's wrong with me, but it's just not as good as the first season.

 

Was Charles supposed to be Idris Elba with the "boom mic" that I still refuse to even believe it was?  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)

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I had the same takeaway, Lion. Seems to me that if Josh tried to break up with Jade and she wouldn't acknowledge it, that's essentially stalking. I don't see anything wrong with the measures he took to get rid of her.

 

It seems to me that the way you deal with someone on drugs breaking in to your apartment is to call the police.

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I don't really think we were supposed to see Josh as the bad guy in that relationship just because he apologized -- the apology was necessary as a favor to his girlfriend to help her have a career success. We've seen many examples of that on this show -- people at Empirical having to pretend to be okay with something that is not okay for the sake of keeping an author happy (or signing an author).

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I don't fault Josh's mea culpa as a way to help his gf and her friend score an author they desperately need, but they both should've treated it as a "you are the saintliest man ever and I'm going to spoil you rotten (Liza) and cover your tab for a month (Kelsey)". They both acted as though he legitimately owed her an apology, which, NO. He was immature, but he didn't owe that drug-fueled stalking lunatic a damn thing. She's lucky it didn't occur to him to press charges, which he should and could have done.

I don't go on many blogs and certainly not Gawker, but don't they stick to actual celebrities? Is there really a market for the wardrobe malfunctions of publishing tycoons? I love to read but couldn't name the head of any NY publishing house with a gun to my head.

Shouldn't the head of marketing be a little more social-media savvy? Her initial removal of Charles' photo basically hinged on her assistant having the right pull with a publicist, and that makes her seem inept.

Was Lauren claiming she wants to be gender monogamous supposed to indicate she's still seeing guys or that she wants to be full-stop exclusive with Maggie?

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Was Lauren claiming she wants to be gender monogamous supposed to indicate she's still seeing guys or that she wants to be full-stop exclusive with Maggie?

I took it to indicate she would still see guys, but Maggie would be the only woman she'd sleep with.

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I don't go on many blogs and certainly not Gawker, but don't they stick to actual celebrities? Is there really a market for the wardrobe malfunctions of publishing tycoons? I love to read but couldn't name the head of any NY publishing house with a gun to my head.

 

Last year Gawker came under fire because they outed an exec of a multi national company.  The story was particularly terrible because it came about due to a male escort blackmailing the exec.  I don't want to link it but it's an easy google find away.  Gawker can get really gross.  

 

 

ETA so I don't double post: So just rewatched and ewwww yeah, it's worse the second time.  I forgot that Liza shockingly points out that Josh 'cheated' on Jade, and then goes on to say that he totally disrespected her.  I mean, I definitely don't have a problem with them getting Josh to make that apology to save their butts and get the signing.  But Liza literally blamed Josh for being stalked.  It's surprising that no one in the writer's room caught that.  

Edited by Lion
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tl;dr: Gawker and publishing

 

Gawker recently published an 'exposé' of a finance guy at a corporation which owns a rival web company, who had approximately no public presence. They did that despite the fact that the loathesome little excreseceence 'reporter' acknowledged that his accuser was a shrieking violent racist loon who was attempting - unsuccesssfully - to extort the guy into having a relative in government game the system for him. 

 

When the story came down in the face of pretty much universal contempt and threats of lawsuits, pretty much the entire editorial staff quit over their first amendment right to out blackmail victims on behalf of their blackmailers. The accuser was allowed to remain anonymous, but was too stupid to wipe his identity from the 'evidence'.

 

It could happen.

 

eta: I think Liza and Kelsey behaved really badly. I still think Josh handled it wrong.

Edited by Julia

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I found this episode to be somewhat of a disappointment, plus it seemed to make the show go in a slightly different direction than I expected it to.  And the x rated stuff got a little much for me and I'm a big Samantha fan from SATC so I'm not exactly a prude.  I love Charles but seeing him kinda-sorta humiliated by having his junk go viral was just not funny or entertaining for me.  I was kind of getting into the mystery of this guy and now, well, there's nothing left to the imagination, LOL.  Not that I'm disappointed, mind you, at least they made him well endowed!  Speaking of that, I loved the double entendres that were coming out of everyone's mouths.  I did get into that.

 

And finally we see a chink in "wonderful" Josh's armor - Could it be that he's not as "perfect" as he was made out to be thus far?  I've been looking for the thing that brings him down so that Liza becomes more vulnerable and open to Charles (because you know it's gotta happen) and this Jade person just may be it.  I wonder if she'll try to get her mitts back into Josh somehow and Liza will think Josh is cheating on her with him.  Maybe Liza sticking to the "girl code" in getting mad at Josh for what she framed as his disrespectful treatment of Jade is so we know she takes Jade seriously and can see her as a threat to her relationship with Josh.

 

And Diana and her "appropriate" but just a hair not sexy enough wardrobe is now on my last nerve.  I might have interpreted it wrong, but didn't the millennials at that meeting with her totally dis her appearance?   I felt like the turtleneck and tights look was done purposely.  I think the show doesn't want to detract from Liza's sex appeal, which is why they dress Diana like that.  I also feel like they go light on her makeup to accentuate her age and make Liza look younger by comparison.

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I am really disappointed in what they've done with Diana this year. What happened to the Liza/Diana quasi-friendship/colleague relationship from last year, when they both went to that party together? I feel like Diana is being sacrificed at the altar of Liza's friendship with Kelsey, and while I enjoy the latter, I wish it wasn't at the expense of the former. Diana was such an interesting foil for Liza -- a woman about her age who had climbed the corporate ladder, while (equally competent) Liza chose to have kids and get married. I liked Diana much better as Liza's Road Not Taken, as opposed to Liza's Thorn in Her Side.

 

I also really dislike how they've amped up Diana's crush on Charles, just to emphasize her role as Liza's personal and professional nemesis. It's sort of making me hate Charles, who I feel is barely worth the attention of one competent, professional woman, let alone two.

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Word, Eolivet! I don't like the increasing tension between Diana and Liza, either. Diana can be a professional foil without turning into a shrill caricature. She doesn't have to be an increasingly shrill petty tyrant. I dread the upcoming tug-of-war she's going to have with Kelsey over who gets more of Liza's time, and you know Charles will get dragged into it. He'll have to decide, since Kelsey and Diana work in different departments.

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Somehow I didn't realize this was back and this is the first episode I've caught of the new season.  "Explicitly R rated" is right.  I guess some exec thought it needed to be more sexy or something (is this what the kids call sexy these days?).  I'm not a prude, I have 3 kids for goodness sake, but I don't need my TV comedy to be so overtly sexual/crass.  I guess calling an all-girl group a "taco fest" is what passes for witty.  The show doesn't have the vibe it had last season. Boo.  I guess I'm out. 

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I feel like Diana is being sacrificed at the altar of Liza's friendship with Kelsey, and while I enjoy the latter, I wish it wasn't at the expense of the former.

 

That is truly a shame because I think it's more interesting seeing Liza's friendships with the much younger Kelsey and the same age Diana. I like watching Liza kind of balancing between the two and if I had to choose, if a gun was to my head, I'd rather see more of Liza and Diana (partly because OMG Mariam Shor is awesome) but also because I think it would be harder to fool someone your own age than fool someone the age you're trying to be. Because while Kelsey might not get some of Liza's 80s references, Diana would, and she's wonder how/why Liza even has such references in her millennial lifetime.

 

And I would definitely prefer more Diana to more Lauren. That character worked okay in VERY small doses but I am sick of her now.

 

The show does feel like it's changing. Too much for my taste. IDK how much longer Sutton's charm will be able to keep me watching. As it is, this is nothing else is on, let's check On Demand viewing for me. Watching Liza and Diana at odds over Charles will be the last straw if it comes to that. He might be successful, and picture frame attractive (that fake kind of attractive, like the pictures that come in a frame when you buy it) but he is bland and not worth ruining what could be a good female friendship over. And I mean that as a view. I'd rather watch Liza and Diana as friends than either of them as Charles' girlfriend.

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This was one of those situations where EVERYONE was in the wrong. Jade was a total stalker (not just to Josh but to Liza because she obviously found out that they were dating and used the opportunity to get Josh to meet them in public). Not to victim blame Josh, but he didn't report his ex to the police for repeatedly breaking into his apartment and then he went to a party with her. Liza accused him of cheating on Jade and disrespecting her when he clearly said he had broken up with her before he slept with the model. Kelsey and Liza asked him to apologize just so they could get her to sign with them.

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Somehow I didn't realize this was back and this is the first episode I've caught of the new season.  "Explicitly R rated" is right.  I guess some exec thought it needed to be more sexy or something (is this what the kids call sexy these days?).  I'm not a prude, I have 3 kids for goodness sake, but I don't need my TV comedy to be so overtly sexual/crass.  I guess calling an all-girl group a "taco fest" is what passes for witty.  The show doesn't have the vibe it had last season. Boo.  I guess I'm out. 

I was thinking I was the only one who thought what is happening to this show. I think it was fine last year. This season they are trying to hard to push the envelope with the sex scenes and references. I love Sutton but if the show keeps on going the way it is I will be out as well.

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I don't see anything particularly sexually explicit.  I think it's clear they aren't treating sex like something shameful, instead choosing to portray it as a normal part of life, though of course tv codes have archaic clauses about female nudity, so that part is still problematic.  But still, this episode had one sex scene, the characters completely covered with what exactly they were doing left at more suggestion than specific.  What's more, the scene was more focused on the semi-monogamy conversation than the sex preceeding it.  Last season's breaking of the bed was more explicit than this scene could have ever been.  I think the most visually sexual this show has been was the sex party in the background, but the most amazing thing about it was that it was simply background noise.  It hardly mattered at all save for a visual in explaining to Josh was sometimes honesty isn't the best policy.

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I don't see anything particularly sexually explicit.

 

It is more sexual references vs. what you see, although I think the scene with the younger girl presumably "going down" on Debbie Mazur is more explicit than what you see on regular network/basic cable TV.  They also referred to "pegging", which I presume is sexual but I'm not going to look it up.

 

You may just be more used to it since this explicitness is almost the standard at this point, but for someone my age, forty-something, who remembers watching I Love Lucy reruns where they couldn't show Lucy and Ricky in bed together (and they were married!), I can tell how they just keep pushing the envelope to see how far they can go with this stuff.  I'm still going to watch, but I certainly am making sure that my kids don't see it.

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It is more sexual references vs. what you see, although I think the scene with the younger girl presumably "going down" on Debbie Mazur is more explicit than what you see on regular network/basic cable TV.  They also referred to "pegging", which I presume is sexual but I'm not going to look it up.

 

I tend to ask the question: Is the sex scene or sexual reference germane to the plot, or is it just there for shock value?  I doubt they had to open the scene with Lauren going down on Maggie to accomplish whatever plot point they wanted to with that scene.     

Edited by txhorns79
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I don't understand what the "shock value" of implied oral sex would be. Oral sex is implied on regular network television all the time, and this is a 10pm cable show, so I'm just confused about why it would be shocking. 

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I don't see anything particularly sexually explicit. I think it's clear they aren't treating sex like something shameful, instead choosing to portray it as a normal part of life, though of course tv codes have archaic clauses about female nudity, so that part is still problematic. But still, this episode had one sex scene, the characters completely covered with what exactly they were doing left at more suggestion than specific. What's more, the scene was more focused on the semi-monogamy conversation than the sex preceeding it. Last season's breaking of the bed was more explicit than this scene could have ever been. I think the most visually sexual this show has been was the sex party in the background, but the most amazing thing about it was that it was simply background noise. It hardly mattered at all save for a visual in explaining to Josh was sometimes honesty isn't the best policy.

I agree. I didn't see or hear anything that I consider R Rated or anything like that at all.

It's meant to be a sexy type of show. If people don't want to see that type of thing, there are a shit load of other shows to watch.

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I don't understand what the "shock value" of implied oral sex would be. Oral sex is implied on regular network television all the time, and this is a 10pm cable show, so I'm just confused about why it would be shocking.

They had a blow job bib on Empire season 1. Very little on this show shocks me.

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I don't understand what the "shock value" of implied oral sex would be. Oral sex is implied on regular network television all the time, and this is a 10pm cable show, so I'm just confused about why it would be shocking.

 

I guess it just depends on what you spend your time watching.  I would agree if you are watching the types of shows where this kind of thing happens all the time, then yeah, it isn't all that shocking.  Though I stand by my initial point.  If the implied sex, or whatever has no real relevance to the storyline, then it's likely more for titillation or shock value than anything else.  It was like on Boardwalk Empire when the female characters spent a lot of their time topless for no real reason.       

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I'm almost 50 but I don't think this show is overtly sexual any more than other stuff I watch. The premise is about a woman pretending to be 20 something in Manhattan. Frankly I'd be more surprised if it was less overtly sexual. Perhaps I've been jaded by pay channel shows and the Internet, but this is on in the evening and Liza is dating a guy in his 20s. Seems pretty normal to me given the lifestyles being presented here to have this much sexual content.

I do agree though that I'm not a fan of what they are doing with Diana. She is being portrayed as more and more desperate and more and more shrill. A woman who has gotten to her position would not be acting this childishy, even if the feelings they are attempting to portray were accurate. There could have been a really nice examination through the contrast with Diana and Liza about getting older in a professional urban environment that could have been really compelling done well. But they've reduced it to caricatures of the desperate older woman. It's a shame really.

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If Jade turns out like Cat Marnell, she'll be a high priced disaster who'll barely have any work to show. Marnell has been working on her memoir for like 2 or 3 years.

I did not know who that was but googling her I definitely see the resemblance between her and the actress they cast. I wonder how much of the show takes from real life references that I don't pick up on. I'm not sure if I prefer them being influenced by real life or creating original stories wholecloth.

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On 1/28/2016 at 10:42 PM, Snarklepuss said:

I found this episode to be somewhat of a disappointment, plus it seemed to make the show go in a slightly different direction than I expected it to.  And the x rated stuff got a little much for me and I'm a big Samantha fan from SATC so I'm not exactly a prude.  I love Charles but seeing him kinda-sorta humiliated by having his junk go viral was just not funny or entertaining for me.  I was kind of getting into the mystery of this guy and now, well, there's nothing left to the imagination, LOL.  Not that I'm disappointed, mind you, at least they made him well endowed!

I am a year behind watching this, but I agree. OF COURSE they gave the good looking nice guy a huge penis. That's such a trope...just like how they declared Josh a well hung "horse" in Season 1. All good looking guys have huge dicks, right? And all women LOVE big dicks and react by drooling at every opportunity.

Ugh, I hope this ends up being the low point of the season rather than a sign of things to come.

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On 7/16/2017 at 7:59 PM, Superpole2000 said:

I am a year behind watching this, but I agree. OF COURSE they gave the good looking nice guy a huge penis. That's such a trope...just like how they declared Josh a well hung "horse" in Season 1. All good looking guys have huge dicks, right? And all women LOVE big dicks and react by drooling at every opportunity.

Ugh, I hope this ends up being the low point of the season rather than a sign of things to come.

I'm binging and just hit season three. 

I see your point about the size situation. Here's a little TMI - size does not really matter to me. And at this point in my life, someone hung like Charles would need to keep walking, because no.

That being said, just like a picture of a woman's V or big boobs spilling out of a barely-there top, a picture like this is going to garner attention, and people are going to talk, and many will be impressed. Human nature.

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