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Kromm

Wonder Woman (2017)

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I think she just told her that she might not be able to return. It wasn't an absolute, 'barred from paradise forever' declaration. More like, "Finding your way home will be difficult if you leave."

I'll pay more attention when I go see the movie again, but this was how I understood Hippolyta's words as well. I didn't think she was saying Diana would for sure be shut out, more that there was a chance she might never be able to make it back. 

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This movie reminded a bit of Iron Man in the sense that the first two acts are great but the final act/action scene/confrontation with the main villain didn't quite hold up to the rest of it.

Still an awesome movie and easily in my top 5 comic book films. Everything from the No Man's Land/saving town is one of the best sequences ever. I want to have this on Blu Ray just so I can play that whole thing on a loop.

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8 hours ago, SeanC said:

She uses a sword in Batman v. Superman.

I was going to say the same thing, but thought maybe @Kromm was talking about in the comics that Diana never picks up a sword and shield again. Because her using those, stabbing Doomsday, saved the wannabe Bat and Supes. Don't quote me because I watched that piece of shit while doped up on meds. BUT. I do remember how BADASS Diana was.

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10 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

One of the few problems I had with the movie was that they turned Zeus and Ares into God and Lucifer. Zeus is the benevolent creator. Ares is jealous of his creations, he's no longer the 'god of War' rather he's a tempter that leads men to evil by playing on what is in their hearts. Zeus sends a child to defeat evil and set an example for his creations to follow.

It's Christian mythos with a Greek veneer over it.

Not to mention that in the comics, Diana was hidden away on Themyscira to protect her from the jealousy of Hera.

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9 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

This movie reminded a bit of Iron Man in the sense that the first two acts are great but the final act/action scene/confrontation with the main villain didn't quite hold up to the rest of it.

Yeah I'm going to get into that in the last part of my review and why the third acts of most superhero movies are boring.

Birth Movies Death on what Wonder Woman books to get for novices who liked the movie:
Love WONDER WOMAN? Time to Get ReadingAfter 75 years, Diana’s got something for everyone.

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Forgive me for repeating something that may have been previously brought up but I'm glad that:

Spoiler

it turned out that Zeus was Diana's father. I always thought it was a lame deal in the comics to have her created because Hippolyta sculpted a baby statue and the gods took pity on Amazon Queen by turning said sculpture into a live baby- though not as lame as when Xena had her baby by having her female arch-enemy somehow get tricked into impregnating her. I mean, one glance at the Greek myths and its hard to find folks with extra powers not sired by Zeus.  Having Zeus sire Diana took nothing away from the mother-daughter bond any more than Demeter having Persephone the same way.

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It was based on the Pygmalian myth I mean  I did start to wonder, was Hippolyta the only Amazon who wanted a child? Wouldn't there at least be a few more who felt maternal pangs and saw this and sculpted children too?

56 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Having Zeus sire Diana took nothing away from the mother-daughter bond any more than Demeter having Persephone the same way.

And I like that Diana was sired by Zeus just to be a weapon but she was obviously more than that to Hippolyta. She went so far as to keep her from learning to fight and fulfill her destiny to protect her.

From Vulture:

How Wonder Woman Brought Color Back to the DC Universe

The First 20 Minutes of Wonder Woman Are the Best Part of the Movie

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Ares tells Diana that he was never the 'god of war', but rather that he was the 'god of truth', and this is why Diana's mother felt that telling Diana the truth about being the god killer would make it easier for Ares to find her. Granted, they basically went right to him the moment they arrived in London anyway, but at least the secret keeping was somewhat justified.

 

On 6/1/2017 at 11:48 PM, scrb said:

So Diana's not suppose to age.  She was in WWI and then also showed up in BvS in the present.

But Gal Gadot is in her mid 30s?  A couple of sequels from now, she will look noticeably older.

I've seen this same argument made recently when Supergirl revealed that Kryptonians age much slower than humans once they reach maturity to explain why they cast an actor who is the same age as MB as Superman. Not trying to call anyone out, but it's not something I ever recall seeing directed at a male actor cast as an immortal or slow aging character (see Hugh Jackman playing Logan/Wolverine for, like, 50 years).

 

On 6/3/2017 at 6:57 PM, shantown said:

Do we have to use spoilers if the film is already out? I loved it. I thought for sure that 

  Reveal hidden contents

Doctor Poison

would turn out to be Ares, but I was wrong.

I knew that the General was an obvious red herring, I guessed it was Lupin but there was a moment when I thought that they were going to go radically divergent from cannon and have Steve be Ares.

On 6/4/2017 at 2:11 AM, phalange said:

The scene with Diana and Steve on the boat was hilarious. I cracked up when Diana explained that she was sculpted from clay and brought to life by Zeus and Steve's response was, "Well, that's neat." Also Diana talking about the twelve books on human reproduction and her conclusion about men.

The best part is that this isn't just a throwaway joke, these two things are foreshadowing for Zeus being Diana's father. Diana believes that she was sculpted out of clay by a woman, but also knows that men are needed for procreation.

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7 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:
On 6/1/2017 at 8:48 PM, scrb said:

So Diana's not suppose to age.  She was in WWI and then also showed up in BvS in the present.

But Gal Gadot is in her mid 30s?  A couple of sequels from now, she will look noticeably older.

I've seen this same argument made recently when Supergirl revealed that Kryptonians age much slower than humans once they reach maturity to explain why they cast an actor who is the same age as MB as Superman. Not trying to call anyone out, but it's not something I ever recall seeing directed at a male actor cast as an immortal or slow aging character (see Hugh Jackman playing Logan/Wolverine for, like, 50 years).

Gal Gadot's 32 now and if they do a trilogy of Wonder Woman movies with each movie coming out every 3 years and one or two more Justice Leagues in the middle of it she'll be 38 by the time she's played her for the 5th or 6th time. I've looked at pictures of various actors and actresses when they were 32 and then 38 and there's not much difference in the face unless they gained or lost a significant amount of weight. 

Edited by VCRTracking
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I think Thor and Vision are also not supposed to age and nobody's complaining. Same goes for Superman. But add a woman to the rooster and there's a 'oh my! She's 30? How can she be alive and well in 8 years time?'...

Wonder Woman fighting age bias, that's new.

- - -

Anyhow - loved the movie, despite it's flaws.

The final act was too CGIed for my taste, the whole Diana vs Ares fight looked completely artificial. The background of ever burning flames was just there (so they didn't have to render the airport?) but at least it was bright. I found some parts of the movie too dark - in colors department. I know it's DC's thing, but when you can't properly see if the characters are kissing or hugging, it's not a good lighting job.

The concept of space and distances was also crooked, as some of you pointed out in the thread. The Turkey > Themiscyra > London trip took way to short, especially when juxtaposed to what was happening in the villains camp.  I also have some issues with Themiscyra timeline and the question how long was Diana a child?... The narrative makes me believe Diana was barely in her adult years when Steve crashed by the island, but that would mean Hippolyta sculptured her out of clay 20 years prior... And Zeus was long dead by that time. Right?

Themiscyra is an island where time doesn't take effect that much, so all the Amazons can be frozen in time, but was Diana a child for a longer period?

- - -

Still, I'm nitpicking. I really loved the movie, I loved Diana and her wonder at the world and the dread of realization that nothing is as easy as in the stories.

To my surprise, I loved Steve, for the first time ever. I loved the band of misfits he called for and how not everything was a cliche there (the marksman did not fire a war-turning shot, for example). I loved Etta, for the little time we had her (wished we had more :) ).

 

But what I loved most about the movie was the respect it gave to both women and men.

Before this, i had to watch strong women being objectified (Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad), victimised (Black Widow kidnapped in the Age of Ultron) or relegated to sidelines, their stories left on the cutting room floor (Lois in BvS), while the men were heroes. But I didn't want a simple turn of the tables, with men helpless and women heroic. That's not the point.

The WW movie shows me that it's possible to have a heroic woman and a heroic man at the same time on screen, without making one ridiculous and propping the other. Diana is a hero and Steve is a hero in their own right. He doesn't need to be stupid for her to be competent. She can be naive but still strong. He can pick her up from tarmac and she can fish him out of the sea. It's complimentary, even if she could easily juggle a tank.

Now imagine Marvel doing that.  Hopefully in the future.

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1 hour ago, Ariah said:

 I also have some issues with Themiscyra timeline and the question how long was Diana a child?... The narrative makes me believe Diana was barely in her adult years when Steve crashed by the island, but that would mean Hippolyta sculptured her out of clay 20 years prior... And Zeus was long dead by that time. Right?

Themiscyra is an island where time doesn't take effect that much, so all the Amazons can be frozen in time, but was Diana a child for a longer period?

fwiw Patty Jenkins gave an interview where she says she thinks Diana is roughly 800. The way I read it, though, it's hard to tell whether she thinks Diana's aging was really slow to accommodate time on Themiscrya, or if she aged normally to like 18 and then basically stopped and had one hell of a long young adulthood...also I'm not sure how Jenkins makes 800 work given that we were kinda well past Ancient Greece by that point. But it sounds like there is disagreement among the DCEU creative minds on Diana's age so I doubt it'll get cleared up anytime soon:

http://collider.com/patty-jenkins-wonder-woman-interview/#age

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Personally, I don't think Zeus is dead but that's my Classics degree coming out of hibernation and overriding what they said in the movie.  It would be cool to be right and see him in a sequel but I don't expect to.

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I'm going with Amazons age very, very slowly. If she's 800 at in the modern day 2017 and looks 32, she ages 1 year every 25 years, making her the Amazon equivalent of 28 in 1917. When we first see her as a child and she looks 8, she's really 200 years old!

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I just saw it and loved it beyond the loving. I didn't think any part of it dragged. I totally guessed the correct Ares because of meta-movie logic. That actor had the evil villain British accent.

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18 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Personally, I don't think Zeus is dead but that's my Classics degree coming out of hibernation and overriding what they said in the movie.  It would be cool to be right and see him in a sequel but I don't expect to.

Oh, I think there's no way Zeus is dead. And I'm skeptical that the other gods are truly dead as well. Maybe the DCEU doesn't want the Greco-Roman pantheon running around on top of the Justice League but I totally thought there was enough wiggle room for Zeus, at least, to still be alive and kicking.

For a good chunk of the movie I actually thought Lupin was going to be Zeus and Dr. Poison Ares (the general was an obvious fake-out).

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Well, I don't think Zeus is dead-dead, but I believe Hippolita thinks he's dead.

But I also think the story she told Diana, though partly taken from Diana's origins in the comics, was a fairy-tale told to help the child sleep. And the movie Diana was not made of clay and brought to life by Zeus, but rather conceived by Zeus in the old fashioned way. 

Because if the whole clay sculpture thing was true, what was the thing Hippolita didn't tell Diana? Diana knew she was made by Zeus already and was in a way his daughter. The things she learnt from Ares in their final fight and the fact she could tap into her god powers shouldn't be a surprise to her... Unless she was not a clay-made but a flesh-made, a demi-goddess.

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3 hours ago, Ariah said:

Well, I don't think Zeus is dead-dead, but I believe Hippolita thinks he's dead.

But I also think the story she told Diana, though partly taken from Diana's origins in the comics, was a fairy-tale told to help the child sleep. And the movie Diana was not made of clay and brought to life by Zeus, but rather conceived by Zeus in the old fashioned way.

Yeah, Zeus and Hippolyta did the nasty in the pasty.

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9 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Gal Gadot's 32 now and if they do a trilogy of Wonder Woman movies with each movie coming out every 3 years and one or two more Justice Leagues in the middle of it she'll be 38 by the time she's played her for the 5th or 6th time. I've looked at pictures of various actors and actresses when they were 32 and then 38 and there's not much difference in the face unless they gained or lost a significant amount of weight. 

Particularly when you have access to the kind of grooming products and techniques that Gal Gadot has & will continue to have, and there are filters that can make people look younger on camera.

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I am so glad this movie is doing so well.

I actually want to go back later this week and see it again. I don't think I can wait for the DVD.

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The travel talk makes me thing that Themyscira is like Avalon in the series Gargoyles. If you set sail from Avalon the magic of the island would send you to where ever you need to be in a day of travel, the downside being that you couldn't choose your destination, the island chose for you.

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20 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

It was based on the Pygmalian myth I mean  I did start to wonder, was Hippolyta the only Amazon who wanted a child? Wouldn't there at least be a few more who felt maternal pangs and saw this and sculpted children too?

In the classic Perez run, Hippolyta was originally pregnant when killed, and that unborn child's soul wasn't  reincarnated when the Amazons were created. So there was kind of a specific spiritual connection that led to her yearning for Diana. (It's also possible that some of the Amazons had already conceived children the old fashioned way, back when they lived in a city on the mainland and had contact with men. There were certainly Greek myths to that effect, including a counterpart all-male tribe that would divide children they conceived with the Amazons according to sex for upbringing.)

10 hours ago, Ariah said:

Before this, i had to watch strong women being objectified (Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad), victimised (Black Widow kidnapped in the Age of Ultron) or relegated to sidelines, their stories left on the cutting room floor (Lois in BvS), while the men were heroes.

Yet somehow in BvS Wonder Woman managed to shine through and be the best part of the movie despite Goyer, Snyder, and whatever ham-fisted person they grabbed off the street to edit disjointed scenes together. I think the core essence of the character is just too awesome to be held back by their sucky dystopian views of comic books.

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8 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Oh, I think there's no way Zeus is dead. And I'm skeptical that the other gods are truly dead as well. Maybe the DCEU doesn't want the Greco-Roman pantheon running around on top of the Justice League but I totally thought there was enough wiggle room for Zeus, at least, to still be alive and kicking.

I wonder, assuming they do explore the pantheon in some capacity, if some of the gods went into hiding and allowed Ares to believe he killed them.  They could kill off some, to make it clear that it was a harrowing experience with real consequences, but then have everyone else hide.  Maybe they lose their powers or something and that's why they never tried to recapture Olympus?  Then we can bring in Zeus and select other gods.  But, again, I don't expect to see them.

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10 hours ago, Ariah said:

The WW movie shows me that it's possible to have a heroic woman and a heroic man at the same time on screen, without making one ridiculous and propping the other. Diana is a hero and Steve is a hero in their own right. He doesn't need to be stupid for her to be competent. She can be naive but still strong. He can pick her up from tarmac and she can fish him out of the sea. It's complimentary, even if she could easily juggle a tank.

Yes to all of that. I love their dynamic. I love how Steve was genuinely confused by her when she said things that didn't make sense to him, and didn't dismiss her as just some lunatic. It does help he had been to her world, and saw how different it was from his. There was a point in the movie where WW was insisting on how if she could just conquer Ares it would make things right, and Steve struggled how to explain to her the current war they are fighting vs. the war she wants to fight. A lesser movie (or character) would have resolved to Steve telling WW "There's no Ares alright?!" Our enemies here are these bad Germans, nothing more!" There's also no quips from him about how stubborn Diana can be, as if women who believes firmly in their convictions and would do whatever it takes are only stubborn, while men who possesses the same qualities are heroic.

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Particularly when you have access to the kind of grooming products and techniques that Gal Gadot has & will continue to have, and there are filters that can make people look younger on camera.

Not only that. If they can bring dead actors now in movies and act as if they had actually shot the movie alive, I'm sure they'll have no problems making Gal Gadot  look ageless. 

13 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Yet somehow in BvS Wonder Woman managed to shine through and be the best part of the movie despite Goyer, Snyder, and whatever ham-fisted person they grabbed off the street to edit disjointed scenes together. I think the core essence of the character is just too awesome to be held back by their sucky dystopian views of comic books.

Well, that too.

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Some other things I was left wondering about after a second viewing:

What exactly was General Ludendorff? Dr. Maru said her gas would restore his strength, implying that he was already superhuman but had weakened over time. I know that was so he could be a red herring Diana and the audience mistook for Ares, but we never got an explanation of what the real deal was.

Why did Steve try to cozy up to Dr. Maru by implying he could be more help to her career than the deputy head of the German Empire's armed forces to whom she was apparently the trusted right hand woman? I mean, certainly having her appetite for destruction admired by someone who looks like Chris Pine would be seductive, but the only person who could offer her more in the way of backing would have been Hindenburg.

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I was wondering about Ludendorff myself! Was he some super soldier that became such thanks to Dr. Poison's smoke thingie?

And I really liked Steve trying to explain to Diana, that some people are just...bad and evil, that killing/stopping Ares wasn't the answer. I'm assuming whoever wrote the dialogue wanted to stay away from religion and have Steve, instead say how God gave man "Free Will," and if they chose to be evil, that was on them.

I'll be honest and say I didn't think about nor do I care, how the movie dealt with or didn't address, how old Diana is. These small details I couldn't care less about, because the rest of the movie was so bloody awesome!?

Sometimes, I am very easy to please!?

You all can laugh at me or mock me, but for the first time in a looong time, I'm gonna dress for Halloween this year!? One guess as to who as!???

I also appreciated how the camera angles shows how Diana was a wee bit taller than Steve! I noticed it during their love scene when the camera zoomed in on them right before their kiss. Well, she is an Amazon!?

Mother than Ares just talking and talking and taaaalking near the end, I really didn't have a problem with the fight scenes/CGI, because the special effects were SO KEWL!!!!!??

I can't wait to see this in IMAX and "experience" the fight!

I don't give any shits about the upcoming Justice League movies. In addition to a sequel, I just want a Diana and Superman movie! I want to see Gal and Henry Shine! And if "Batman" must be in it, stick him in his bat cave to brood and sulk and play with his 'puters. I can very much do without this version of "Batman" because he SUCKS. And coming from someone who considers the REAL ONE* her numero ino favorite hero, that's saying a LOT!

*KEVINFUCKING!CONROY/Christian Bale!! SHADDUP! Don't judge me!

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5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Particularly when you have access to the kind of grooming products and techniques that Gal Gadot has & will continue to have, and there are filters that can make people look younger on camera.

And do whatever Gwyneth Paltrow does because I saw her on Kimmel last night and she looked amazing. She's 44 which is older than Robert Downey Jr. was when he made the first Iron Man. We all like to make fun of GOOP and all that holistic stuff, but it seems to work!

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Yes to all of that. I love their dynamic. I love how Steve was genuinely confused by her when she said things that didn't make sense to him, and didn't dismiss her as just some lunatic. It does help he had been to her world, and saw how different it was from his. There was a point in the movie where WW was insisting on how if she could just conquer Ares it would make things right, and Steve struggled how to explain to her the current war they are fighting vs. the war she wants to fight. A lesser movie (or character) would have resolved to Steve telling WW "There's no Ares alright?!" Our enemies here are these bad Germans, nothing more!" There's also no quips from him about how stubborn Diana can be, as if women who believes firmly in their convictions and would do whatever it takes are only stubborn, while men who possesses the same qualities are heroic.

My take is that Steve wanted to believe just as badly as Diana did that everything was as black and white and the world worked as simple as that and probably did when he was younger but the war and everything he's seen changed that. It made him pragmatic and believe that true heroism doesn't exist.  Then he witnessed Diana do the impossible to save people and it inspired him to sacrifice his life. Diana was always a hero but what Steve did was show her Ares was wrong, that mankind was worth saving.

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I also appreciated how the camera angles shows how Diana was a wee bit taller than Steve! I noticed it during their love scene when the camera zoomed in on them right before their kiss. Well, she is an Amazon!?

YES! I noticed that, too. I really appreciated that Jenkins let Gadot be tall instead of using tricks to make her shorter than Pine as so often happens.

I've never been a huge Chris Pine fan--in part because I hated his fratboy Kirk so much--so he was a revelation here. And I agree with the praise for the script doing a great job showing a love interest who was absolutely the love interest, but was also a complete person with his own story and goals. I know that I have seen female love interests written like that as well--although I'm blanking on examples--but too often scriptwriters don't. They may make them interesting and skilled, but they forget to give them their own goals and life. I loved that Steve was complex. We are meant to view him as heroic and possessing goodness, but he's also flawed. Neither he nor the movie let us forget that there's another POV where he's a bad guy.

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39 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I was wondering about Ludendorff myself! Was he some super soldier that became such thanks to Dr. Poison's smoke thingie?

He might have been a take on Shazam/Captain Marvel villain, Captain Nazi, who had super strength and speed and could gain the power to fly for a short period of time by breathing a special gas. Though, for the purposes of this movie I took it that he was a normal man who got old, Poison just undersold how well the gas worked.

43 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

You all can laugh at me or mock me, but for the first time in a looong time, I'm gonna dress for Halloween this year!? One guess as to who as!???

Charlie?

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I know this is pure speculation but I wonder if a sequel will have Diana meet an even more well-known Zeus offspring- Athena and what would her reaction to Athena be? I mean, Diana is supposed to abhor war yet Athena was the Goddess of Strategic, Prudent Warfare (as opposed to Aries the God of Wanton, Cruel Warfare) and also Athena being the Patroness of Athens opposed any and all of that city's enemies- including at one time Amazons.

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I saw the movie on Sunday.

By and large, I loved it. I thought it would have been ideal if Patty Jenkins could have sustained the wonderful blend of action, heart and humor that characterized the first three-fourths of the movie for the movie's entire length. But, once Ares revealed himself to Diana, I thought the movie lost a little bit of altitude. I found my interest declining in direct proportion to each new special effect. Only Steve's sacrifice and Diana's recommitment to her original sense of purpose held my interest during the final sequence. (And I thought David Thewlis as Ares was far more interesting quietly puncturing Diana's illusions than he was bellowing at the top of his lungs.)

That being said, it's hard to find fault with such a winning movie. Someone wrote upthread that much of the movie felt like it came from older genres you would see on TCM and I agree. There were nods to the classic war films, screwball comedies and even serials that kids would have gone to see at theaters in the 30s and 40s. I didn't feel like the movie was too long and, in any event, I don't know what you could cut before the Diana vs. Ares battle. I felt that the movie needed every single scene to say its piece. For instance, the scene where Steve teaches Diana to dance (or sway) might seem like a throwaway at first viewing. But it really added to the power of Diana and Steve's story and its bittersweet ending.

Loved the cast although, to this day, I still think of Robin Wright as Kelly Capwell on Santa Barbara.

I would give the movie an A- instead of an A just because the big confrontation at the end was far less interesting than everything else that came before it.

Edited by Jan Spears
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On 6/2/2017 at 2:05 PM, Lantern7 said:

 

 That raises another question: if Diana never returned to Them. . . Thema . . . Paradise Island, what has she done in the past century? Did she fight more covertly in wars? Did WWII never happen because she beat the Allies to Hitler and shield-slapped him into a bloody, weepy mess? I guess we'll get a few answers in Justice League, which now has a high bar to clear.

 

My take is that she left the world to go on its own way and sat out in exile and did not from interfere until the superhuman Kryptonians arrived and Bruce Wayne recruited her

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11 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Some other things I was left wondering about after a second viewing:

What exactly was General Ludendorff? Dr. Maru said her gas would restore his strength, implying that he was already superhuman but had weakened over time. I know that was so he could be a red herring Diana and the audience mistook for Ares, but we never got an explanation of what the real deal was.

I think it's the beginning of Venom, which is what Bane uses.  So it's not just an Ares red herring, it's planting the seeds for the future in the DCEU.

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I saw the movie for a second time tonight, and I have to say I think I liked it even more, and found it more impressive, the second time around. Now that I had a good grip on the plot and characters, I was able to focus more on the emotions and the themes running throughout, and the emotional journey was even more compelling this time around (again let me give props to Gal Gadot for some fine work--she absolutely carried this movie top to bottom). Also, the theater was packed tonight, holy crap, and the audience was really responsive--they burst into applause when it was over, which hasn't happened in a while, and several lines got BIG laughs. Also when Diana clashed her gauntlets together for the first time during training a little boy went "whoooooooa" and it was amazing.

I still desperately want a prequel where the Amazons kick ass in the war of the gods, and that's in part because one of the things that struck me on rewatch was how much richer the Themiscrya scenes are when you go in knowing the truth about Diana. Connie Nielsen and Robin Wright did some really great work in their scenes, which seem to make sense and track emotionally the first time you watch the movie, but then become 300% richer and deeper and more understandable when you know what they know about Diana. Truly some excellent work there. The Amazons were just super interesting in general. And I continue to think the beach scene was the best choreographed and most visually stunning battle scene in the movie. You could feel the audience at my theater suck in their breath when Antiope did her shield jump. Just so badass. Let that be a lesson to the DCEU....

Spoiler

Apparently Hippolyta has been confirmed to appear in Justice League and imdb also lists Menalippe (Antiope's second-in-command/implied lover) and no lie, depending on what the Amazons get to do in that movie, the promise of more Amazons might be enough to get me to go to Justice League when I otherwise would TOTALLY be giving that movie a pass. But I am desperate for some more Amazons.

Side note, I tried to pay more attention this time around to what Hippolyta says to Diana when Diana went to leave, and I think it could go either way--it could mean Diana is forever excommunicated from Themiscrya, or just that there was a chance she might not be able to find her way back (or, in Hippolyta's mind, perhaps even want to). In delivery, I thought Nielsen played it like the former but Gadot more like the latter.

For me, the place where the movie bogs down a bit is actually between when the Amazons interrogate Steve with the lasso and Diana and Steve leave London for the front lines. Which is funny, because I do think the fish out of water humor was charming (got some HUGE laughs in the theater) and Etta is delightful, but nevertheless, that stretch of the movie is where I think like 10% could've been shaved from most scenes and it would've been totally fine. Or maybe they even could've cut either the Parliament scene or the scene where Diana chews out the generals (preferably the first)--this time around having both felt redundant. But the Themiscrya stuff through the battle, and then everything from Diana leaving London on (and especially from No Man's Land on), felt perfectly paced to me.

Agree that I was more interested in Ares trying to talk Diana 'round to his point of view than the over-CGIed battle at the end, but I figure the over-CGIed-ness was the studio/Snyder's requirement, so it's hard to fault Jenkins or the movie itself for that. It IS funny though that Ares tells Diana that he can't really influence humankind, we make war all on our own, and then the next scene we see after his defeat is...peace. Heh.

I still felt the Diana/Steve romance falls a little flat and I kind of wonder what the movie would've been like had they taken a page from Rogue One's book and left it a more unspoken thing. But the rest of the movie is so strong I can forgive Diana/Steve not being the greatest, and Gadot and Chris Pine did have good chemistry, which helps. Plus, in their defense, I think I keep comparing it to Steve/Peggy from CA:TFA unintentionally, and that's like the gold standard of superhero tragic doomed romances in my book.

I'm tempted to go a third time, which NEVER happens to me with movies. But this film was even more impressive on a second watch, so I'm curious as to what a third would reveal. I'm totally buying it on Blu-Ray.

Edited by stealinghome
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Before I go to bed . . . is the following accurate?

Diana : Godkiller :: Dumbo : Magic Feather

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Travel from Themiscyra to London:  Etta says that Steve has been missing "for weeks."

I, too, was hoping Dr. Poison would turn out to be Ares.

Best moment was Diana asking Charlie "Who will sing for us?" with that smile.  Pure kindness.

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45 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

I still felt the Diana/Steve romance falls a little flat and I kind of wonder what the movie would've been like had they taken a page from Rogue One's book and left it a more unspoken thing. But the rest of the movie is so strong I can forgive Diana/Steve not being the greatest, and Gadot and Chris Pine did have good chemistry, which helps. Plus, in their defense, I think I keep comparing it to Steve/Peggy from CA:TFA unintentionally, and that's like the gold standard of superhero tragic doomed romances in my book.

I think the better comparison would be the romance in Thor which also happens in a relatively short amount of time. Steve Trevor and Diana is definitely better than Thor and Jane Foster. With Thor and Jane I have no problem believing that either would be attracted to each other. What I don't buy is that they were so much in love that at the end with Thor being in Asgard with the Bifrost destroyed is a tragic thing because he's not with Jane. You don't miss her when she's not in the first Avengers movie.

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6 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

Best moment was Diana asking Charlie "Who will sing for us?" with that smile.  Pure kindness.

I was afraid Charlie would die just because she said that and made him go, pushing her more down the 'I don't care' spiral.

As for the short amount of time regarding romance - it was about week and a half I think. And it was war, adrenaline was high. That's a relatively good time to fall in love and not fall out of love when one side of the couple dies (so you never got to learn their faults and reality never sat in).

I have more problem with Clark / Lois romance in the DCU. 

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9 hours ago, Raja said:

My take is that she left the world to go on its own way and sat out in exile and did not from interfere until the superhuman Kryptonians arrived and Bruce Wayne recruited her

That's probably the likely answer although I can't see Diana sitting out of WW2.

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14 minutes ago, benteen said:

That's probably the likely answer although I can't see Diana sitting out of WW2.

So why does a god let bad things happen to good people?  She just had the experience of killing Ares and being told that the war would go on, even if the local fighting did stop upon the actual god's death, so do you stop at Hitler or go on to the Japanese, Stalin, Mao..... where Diana didn't sit it out

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9 hours ago, Raja said:

My take is that she left the world to go on its own way and sat out in exile and did not from interfere until the superhuman Kryptonians arrived and Bruce Wayne recruited her

He didn't recruit her.  He was trying to figure out who she was during most of that movie. And both he and Supes were shocked to see her show up when she showed up as Wonder Woman near the end.

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8 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Agree that I was more interested in Ares trying to talk Diana 'round to his point of view than the over-CGIed battle at the end, but I figure the over-CGIed-ness was the studio/Snyder's requirement, so it's hard to fault Jenkins or the movie itself for that. It IS funny though that Ares tells Diana that he can't really influence humankind, we make war all on our own, and then the next scene we see after his defeat is...peace. Heh.

Of course Ares was the one who was pushing for the Armistice in the first place. And, assuming that the DCEU history roughly follows our own, the promise of reparations demanded in the Armistice were a strong contributing factor to the rise of Nazi Germany. Which leads to humanity developing nuclear weapons.

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I also find it strange that Diana did nothing when General Zod was destroying the Earth. If it wasn't for Clark, our planet would have been doomed. Maybe she was at her mum's at that time and none of that shenanigans broke through Themiscyra's shield?

Frankly, judging from BvS, i expected the ending of WW to be much more of a downer - everybody Diana knew dies, she's partially responsible for their deaths, she's broken and her soul is crushed. But the film finished with Diana sad, but still believing in love.
Perhaps the sequel showing Diana in Hiroshima will explain some of the confusion I have now...

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I suppose it's possible that Diana did suit up for battle when the Kryptonians showed up and just wasn't able to make it to Metropolis or the Indian Ocean in the short time before everything was resolved. Zod & Co. were in orbit for most of the movie; the real time duration between the start of their attack on Metropolis and Superman snapping Zod's neck was probably less than an hour.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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18 hours ago, Jan Spears said:

(And I thought David Thewlis as Ares was far more interesting quietly puncturing Diana's illusions than he was bellowing at the top of his lungs.)

I thought the same. There was a genuine confused look on Diana on how she would fight and defeat Ares at that state. She was certainly expecting Ares to look dominating and powerful and evil. But I guess they had to eventually make Ares the way he was at the end to be faithful to how he looks like in the comic books.

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2 hours ago, slowpoked said:
21 hours ago, Jan Spears said:

(And I thought David Thewlis as Ares was far more interesting quietly puncturing Diana's illusions than he was bellowing at the top of his lungs.)

I thought the same. There was a genuine confused look on Diana on how she would fight and defeat Ares at that state. She was certainly expecting Ares to look dominating and powerful and evil. But I guess they had to eventually make Ares the way he was at the end to be faithful to how he looks like in the comic books.

I think one of my favorite moments was the flashback to Ares being cast down from Mount Olympics and he takes off his helmet you saw a really jacked David Thewlis! It made me chuckle in the theater. I need that CGI work done on me!

Edited by VCRTracking
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