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And also the false argument that "If you push diversity, you're not looking for the best person for the job".

Frankly, that is a backwards way of looking at things.  Casting hasn't been looking for the best people for the "job" for "Survivor". Casting has been going for what THEY themselves are attracted to, find appealing, are comfortable with, which is a majority of white people, often with gym bodies and breast implants, etc. That doesn't mean that they're the best people to be cast on this show.  All it means is that casting likes them!  That is all that it means.  If Casting Director X thinks you look like their horrible ex-boyfriend whose face they don't want to see, then you won't be cast.  That's not fair, but that's what's going on.  It's not as if Casting Directors are some purely objective deities wisely and indifferently issuing their decree, and now they will be "compromised" by "evil, horrible diversity".  Far from it.  They have their own personal biases like everyone else on the planet, and now they're just going to try to check them a little more.

When people use the argument "Don't hire for diversity, hire for the best person for the job!" it's based on some totally false assumption that decisions have always been based on merit up until now, when they so rarely are.  I have read Wikipedia backgrounds for all sorts of movies and so many times it's public knowledge that casting looked at these 10 white actors or these 10 white actresses for a role, and then picked amongst them after a table read.  Is that hiring based on merit?  LOL!  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Just chiming in to point out that Survivor has never matched the age demographics of the country—not even the age distribution restricted to people over the age of 18. This is relevant to race because in the US, each successive generation has proportionally fewer white people than the generation that preceded it. Baby Boomers are 72% non-Hispanic white, while Gen Z is only 52%. The cynic in me thinks that this announcement about not letting any more than 50% of the cast be white is the show trying to score progressive points for something that was almost inevitable anyway. Most of the newbies in recent seasons have been Millennials, and as Gen Xers start aging out of being cast (as Baby Boomers have mostly done), Zoomers are starting to age in. I don't think there's anything discriminatory about the show choosing to reflect the broad racial demographics of the age groups that it's recruiting from, rather than those of the US as a whole.

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On 11/17/2020 at 12:40 PM, LadyChatts said:

I'm not saying I don't think they shouldn't have a more diverse cast (and not be stereotypical with the editing).  But I also don't know about casting diversity for the sake of casting diversity.  Cook Islands was a great season, heavily recruited (was anyone a traditional applicant?) but then there was Fiji, also heavily recruited (I think only one person applied the normal way),

First off, you are correct about the OG Fiji season.  There was only one applicant in that cast, and he was the guy that got medevaced.  Everyone else, including fan-favorites Yau Man and Earl (the eventual winner) were recruits. 

Second, while those two seasons are the main ones people talk about when it comes to cast diversity, we really need to be looking at the Second Chances cast.  Remember, that was the cast that was built based on audience voting.  And when the final votes were counted, all but 1* (or 2**, because I'm still not fully sure if one person counts) of the BIPOC on the ballots were "voted in" to that cast; a total of 7 (Jeremy, Tasha, Woo, Peih-Gee, Abi-Maria, Monica, and Shirin) out of 20.  That said to me that the viewing audience wants to see more BIPOC on Survivor.  This measure from CBS is just going to make sure it happens.

 

*The absolute exception was Sabrina from One World.  **I'm still not sure if "Mama C" Carolyn from Worlds Apart counts.  I believe she's Latina, so I think she does.

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16 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

First off, you are correct about the OG Fiji season.  There was only one applicant in that cast, and he was the guy that got medevaced.  Everyone else, including fan-favorites Yau Man and Earl (the eventual winner) were recruits. 

Second, while those two seasons are the main ones people talk about when it comes to cast diversity, we really need to be looking at the Second Chances cast.  Remember, that was the cast that was built based on audience voting.  And when the final votes were counted, all but 1* (or 2**, because I'm still not fully sure if one person counts) of the BIPOC on the ballots were "voted in" to that cast; a total of 7 (Jeremy, Tasha, Woo, Peih-Gee, Abi-Maria, Monica, and Shirin) out of 20.  That said to me that the viewing audience wants to see more BIPOC on Survivor.  This measure from CBS is just going to make sure it happens.

 

*The absolute exception was Sabrina from One World.  **I'm still not sure if "Mama C" Carolyn from Worlds Apart counts.  I believe she's Latina, so I think she does.

I believe Carolyn is Latina.  I will say that I think some of those people did benefit from being on more recent seasons, but in reality, Survivor has gotten more diverse in recent years than they use to be back in the early days.  

And I'm not saying people don't want to see a diverse cast, and it's not like TPTB haven't casted 'types' before that had nothing to do with race.  That's been going on since the beginning of this series.  Probst himself once said they looked for applicants that fit certain criteria (like looking for someone to fit the soccer mom role).  I never liked it then.  Just find an entertaining cast that's there to play the game.  That's all I'm asking for.    

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On 11/16/2020 at 1:39 PM, Nashville said:

The stated “quotas” do not reflect general population representation with technical accuracy, true - but a couple of other factors to consider:

  1. During the many many seasons (of Survivor and other rTV shows) of minority underrepresentation I don’t recall a significant outburst from technical purists (other than myself on the odd post from time to time) decrying the inaccuracy and discussing appropriate population-representative values, so fussing about overrepresentation might be perceived as being a trifle disingenuous.  Just consider it in the nature of a reparation overcorrection and move on.
  2. When it comes to a clash between technical accuracy vs. marketability, we already know on which side of THAT fence Production is going to land; TPTB are going to market to the young GenZ wokesters who make up the bulk of their broadcast market viewership share - and at that point, expecting a demand for technical statistical accuracy from a generation which was never taught how to reconcile a checkbook is kinda unrealistic.  😉

I don't care how they get there, all I want is one season where the entire cast is made up of vegans.🥦🥕🌽🍎   Is that too much to ask?

Edited by icemiser69
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Joe Anglim is also kind of on the conspiracy theory bandwagon of vaccines.  He didn't go as far as Noura, but had posted stuff in his story about the big business of vaccines, people having the right to refuse them, and whether they are truly effective or something against your personal freedom.  I don't remember Joe being this weird when he was in World's Apart, but maybe I was too enamored with the hair to notice.  Or maybe it happened after he hung out with Kelly Wiglesworth while they were pursuing that Mana thing.  He also mentioned getting really sick in Cambodia, so maybe it was a parasite?  

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On 11/17/2020 at 8:33 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Do GenZ wokesters really make up the bulk of viewership?   The NBA has seen its ratings collapse as a result of it going ultra-woke.   I suspect the same could happen to Survivor.  It seems like a lot of companies are making these woke choices rashly without really evaluating the impact on ratings or sales.  

That’s looking at the ratings demographics from an advertiser point of view, not a Production PoV:

  • Advertisers look at a show’s ratings to determine if the demographics to which it currently appeals are in their primary market target.  
  • Most producers look at a show’s ratings to determine how well their show is penetrating advertising’s Holy Grail, the 18-to-34 age demographic.  If it isn’t doing well in that demographic, they’ll try to determine what (if any) feasible changes might be made to pull a larger share - or if none exist, they may do away with the show entirely.  

Even if GenZ isn’t Survivor’s core audience now, that’s exactly who TPTB are actively programming to target - if they’re wanting the show to stay on the air, that is.  In recent years one only has to look at what A&E did with Longmire for a cautionary tale of what can happen to your show if it is wildly popular with the wrong demographic(s).

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https://insidesurvivor.com/updates-on-survivor-seasons-41-42-and-beyond-47646
 

We might get 3 Survivor seasons filmed next year, with the possibility that one would air in the summer and another in the fall (I won’t complain).  The third would be saved for spring.  Also, they may look to film elsewhere if Fiji isn’t opened back up from lockdown (since other reality shows have been able to film overseas, I can see Survivor swapping out locations if it meant being able to film).  Per this article, Dominican Republic might be an option, as another Survivor franchise filmed there over the summer.  I’m all for it.  I miss this show and the countless ways to mock Probst every week.

Edited by LadyChatts
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On 11/17/2020 at 8:27 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Cook Islands was a one time social experiment, within the social experiment of Survivor, and it was very controversial.  IIRC, they reshuffled the tribes very early, which took a lot of the potentially more problematic, "Which race is best at Survivor?" element, and turned it into more about how people of different ethnic backgrounds would interact and how ethnicity might affect alliances, etc.  

The new rules mandate discrimination against white applicants, as non-Hispanic whites are over 60% of the American population.  

Also, depending upon how the classify other ethnicities, it could be even worse.  About 9% of the population identifies as white Hispanic.  Will they be considered "POC" in Survivor's new Apartheid scheme?

In addition, just this morning, I read an article reporting that a school district announced that Asian students are not considered "students of color", by "white".   It appears they may have walked this back, in response to criticism.   But, this brings up the possibility that Survivor might deem Asian-American applicants to be "white" or "non-BIPOC" and use quotas against them, as many universities have done to Asian-American students.  

You don't eliminate discrimination, with discrimination.  You eliminate it by treating everyone fairly.      

I don't necessarily think the casting should follow the 50% quota, but I think that the main goal is to get more minority contestants onto the show.  Which given the history of the show, I don't think is a bad thing.

Assuming they do follow the 50% goal, that means that in a cast of 20, there would be 10 white people and 10 minorities.  You seem to be arguing that white people are 60% of the population so there should be 12 white people and 8 minorities?  You would really take issue with 2 extra minorities?  Also, you aren't really suggesting that Asian applicants would be lumped into the "white" category just because Harvard did it, are you?  Look at the history of Asian contestants on this show and I highly doubt that this show would consider them white.

I don't think the system is going to be perfect... for example, what about Middle Eastern contestants like Shirin?  Technically, people of Middle Eastern descent are considered white by the U.S. census.  Or as you said, the white Hispanics? 

But I think any step towards trying to get more minority contestants on the show is better than none.

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Here is John Cody's EW Quarantine Questionnaire:  https://ew.com/tv/survivor-blood-vs-water-john-cody-quarantine-questionnaire/

I liked him and Candice a lot during this season.  It was my first exposure to Candice, since I had somehow stopped watching Survivor after the season that JT won and I was intrigued by the Blood vs. Water concept to start watching again.  I had no idea that they were last minute additions and because of that people were already biased against them.

John seemed like a nice guy and I thought he got a raw deal.  I do recall there was talk of him returning in a returnee season (I've always thought they should have brought back him and Jon Misch at some point) but I guess he's busy at work.  Hope they will bring him back sometime.

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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

That poor baby lol.

I’m just curious if this kid will have a normal name, or if Joe and Sierra Dawn will rival those in Hollywood and really go out there with what they name their baby.

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9 hours ago, himela said:

The only thing I remember about Sierra is her awful eyebrows.

Yes, the caterpillars!

I guess I don't follow the lives of these people much after they are gone from the show.  But didn't Joe travel around the world with Kelly Wigglesworth doing some kind of naked yoga show?  Ugh.

If it's a girl I'm going to say that the baby will be named "Granola" (it's so unique, and crunchy!) and they will call her Nola.

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5 hours ago, blackwing said:

If it's a girl I'm going to say that the baby will be named "Granola" (it's so unique, and crunchy!) and they will call her Nola.

Okay... you put that out in the universe, so you’re now responsible for the consequences - i.e., you’re on the hook for little Nola’s future therapy bills.

15 hours ago, himela said:

The only thing I remember about Sierra is her awful eyebrows.

See, as soon as you said that I knew exactly who you were talking about.  😆

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6 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes, the caterpillars!

I guess I don't follow the lives of these people much after they are gone from the show.  But didn't Joe travel around the world with Kelly Wigglesworth doing some kind of naked yoga show?  Ugh.

If it's a girl I'm going to say that the baby will be named "Granola" (it's so unique, and crunchy!) and they will call her Nola.

Once upon a time he and Kelly were pitching some show called ‘Mana’, which had something to do with traveling and finding inner peace or strength through helping people.  Or something like that.  I feel like that was around the time Joe started getting super weird.  I remember they did some weird naked photo shoots, too, together, that I think were supposed to have some purpose.  

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On 11/13/2020 at 2:47 AM, Sarnia said:

some could argue that considering races exists and considering that you can classify human beings in différent races is the first step towards racism. This measure also aknowledge that there are white people on one side, and all non-white people on another (and I'm not quite sure when someone stops being classified as "white").

That is what I believe and why what Survivor is doing with it's casting percentages based on things like pigment and eye shape seem equal parts ridiculous and disgusting to me.  Humans aren't dogs, we don't come in breeds, we just have  slight physical differences based on the climate where our most recent ancestors lived.  

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On 12/2/2020 at 6:10 PM, LadyChatts said:

In case anyone is wondering what Chris 'I Won Survivor Playing Less than Ten Days in the Game' Underwood is doing with his free time....I guess he burned through the million pretty quickly.  

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soxeducation/sox-education

 

I don't necessarily know if he burned through his money, sounds like he's just trying to turn some of it into more money.  This video is hilarious.  Unapologetically offensive towards many, I counted at least the French, Mexicans, Chinese, HR ladies, Karens.

I wonder if it's the COVID hair but I don't think I would have even recognised him.

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On 12/2/2020 at 6:10 PM, LadyChatts said:

In case anyone is wondering what Chris 'I Won Survivor Playing Less than Ten Days in the Game' Underwood is doing with his free time....I guess he burned through the million pretty quickly.  

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soxeducation/sox-education

 

12 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't necessarily know if he burned through his money, sounds like he's just trying to turn some of it into more money. 

I totally agree, if for no other reason than off-color sexually themed socks sounds exactly like the sort of stupid-ass shit a douchebag fratbro would consider the perfect investment of a lifetime.  🙄🙄🙄

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3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

oh my god that looks insanely stupid.  

Popular opinion seems to agree.  As of this post, there's 16 days to go, but only 4 backers pledging $88 of the asked-for $15K.  

And the pledge levels are also insanely stupid.  $100 for a subscription service to get these socks on a monthly basis.  $150 for a signed copy of the script for the video in the campaign.  $1000 to be named the executive producer of a second video for the campaign (aka, paying for the second video to be made, period) and a cameo in it.

 

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

I totally agree, if for no other reason than off-color sexually themed socks sounds exactly like the sort of stupid-ass shit a douchebag fratbro would consider the perfect investment of a lifetime.  🙄🙄🙄

It makes Eddie's Dog Bar idea seem a lot less stupid, that's for sure.

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7 hours ago, SVNBob said:

It makes Eddie's Dog Bar idea seem a lot less stupid, that's for sure.

There was some kind of dog bar type thing on Southern Charm and all I could think about the whole time was sweet, dumb Eddie. Poor guy, somebody beat him to it!

ETA: Also, honestly, I think a dog bar is kinda awesome.

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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

There was some kind of dog bar type thing on Southern Charm and all I could think about the whole time was sweet, dumb Eddie. Poor guy, somebody beat him to it!

ETA: Also, honestly, I think a dog bar is kinda awesome.

I dunno; both my dogs are unrepentant alkies-in-training - you can’t leave an open beer sitting on a table without them trying to get a taste, and they’ve shown absolutely zero interest in working the twelve steps.

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On 12/7/2020 at 12:52 AM, SVNBob said:

Popular opinion seems to agree.  As of this post, there's 16 days to go, but only 4 backers pledging $88 of the asked-for $15K.  

Quoting myself here because I had to check.  Down to 8 days left, but no change in the pledges.

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On 11/10/2020 at 11:56 AM, blackwing said:

True, but he's like the only one.  I am hard pressed to think of any other Asian American male that was relatively successful in the game and was considered by Probst as an alpha male and just as "cool" as those young hunky white guys that he always salivates over.  The others have been mostly portrayed as strange/outcast (Tai, Yau Man, Cao Boi, Vince), dumb (Woo, Mookie) or just plain forgettable (all or most of the rest).

 

On 11/17/2020 at 1:40 PM, LadyChatts said:

I'm not saying I don't think they shouldn't have a more diverse cast (and not be stereotypical with the editing).  But I also don't know about casting diversity for the sake of casting diversity.  

IMO no matter how diverse they make the cast, in the end a lot of the cast are going to be annoying, stupid, passive, boring, offensive, etc. because that's what people are.  I feel like people want a diverse cast AND then want the diverse players to all be alpha, loved by Jeff and the audience, never voted out first because they're annoying, etc. In the example of the Asian men above, many of them were popular players and enjoyed by the audience and Jeff even if they weren't alpha males.  And anyone who wants to be called "Cao Boi" IS strange and deserves to be an outcast 😄 

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I was sure this was heading towards saying she actually died this time. I mean that season was so long ago, I can't believe his grandmother is still alive. As to his stealing from her - can't say this shocks me in any way. 

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7 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Remember way, way back on Pearl Islands when Johnny Fairplay said his grandmother had died?

He's just been arrested for stealing from her

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-jonny-fairplay-arrested-larceny/

Well... Fairplay always liked to say that unlike others he fully embraced the ‘villian’ role, but there’s such a thing as taking it too far....

🙄

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I wasn't sure where to post this, but this seems like the best fit. I started watching this week's' episode of "Catfish" when they read the email from the person contacting them & this week it's from someone named Russell. They invite Russell to join them on a Zoom call & guess who it is? "Russell" turns out to be Russell Hantz! He actually contacted the show for a friend (no, really) so he was only on in the beginning, but he was the last person who I expected to see on Catfish.

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8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Here's the clip of Russell on Catfish:

 

I just realized that this friend is Michael (aka Cowboy) from Big Brother.  Why am I not surprised he’s the one getting duped?

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On 12/2/2020 at 6:10 PM, LadyChatts said:

In case anyone is wondering what Chris 'I Won Survivor Playing Less than Ten Days in the Game' Underwood is doing with his free time....I guess he burned through the million pretty quickly.  

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soxeducation/sox-education

Campaign ended on the 23rd...with the same 4 backers and $88 pledged as reported before.  Which makes me more sure than before that the 4 "backers" were (pun-intended) sock-puppet accounts run by Chris's "business partners" in order to try to make it look like people were actually interested in this stupid idea.

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9 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Campaign ended on the 23rd...with the same 4 backers and $88 pledged as reported before.  Which makes me more sure than before that the 4 "backers" were (pun-intended) sock-puppet accounts run by Chris's "business partners" in order to try to make it look like people were actually interested in this stupid idea.

I don’t think I would have believed it if I hadn’t seen it with my own two eyes. Wow! He looks like some porn star in a hotel room without his shirt on. He really must be desperate or bored. That said, a million doesn’t get you far these days when you’re only 28 years old. Yikes!

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On 12/23/2020 at 3:14 PM, Silver Raven said:

Is this the grandmother who "died"?

 

Yup, same grandma - and apparently suffering from dementia these days.

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On 12/25/2020 at 11:48 AM, ByaNose said:

I don’t think I would have believed it if I hadn’t seen it with my own two eyes. Wow! He looks like some porn star in a hotel room without his shirt on. He really must be desperate or bored. That said, a million doesn’t get you far these days when you’re only 28 years old. Yikes!

The whole thing is so horrifying and embarrassing.

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I had a dream that Survivor was coming back and airing in February. Then I woke up. Sometimes dreams suck. 

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22 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I had a dream that Survivor was coming back and airing in February. Then I woke up. Sometimes dreams suck. 

When I've re-watched seasons on Hulu, I get a message at the beginning that says "Survivor returns..." and the date is still February 2020 😞  I'm still holding out hope they manage to film something this year.  Other countries seem to have been able to do it, even though they may have to skip Fiji.  Getting the cast to whatever location would be the biggest challenge, but IIRC, they always fly out a week or two ahead of filming for media interviews and have last minute physicals and evaluations.  But they could certainly use that time for quarantining, especially since any media interviews would likely be virtual anyway.

Edited by LadyChatts
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To imagine that in 2019 I was bored of too much Survivor with 2 seasons of US Survivor, 2 seasons of AU Survivor and 1 of SA Survivor...

Edited by himela
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4 hours ago, himela said:

To imagine that in 2019 I was bored of too much Survivor with 2 seasons of US Survivor, 2 seasons of AU Survivor and 1 of SA Survivor...

That explains a lot - so it’s all YOUR fault...  😆

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