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I wonder if CBS is worried that Dan might sue them.  It seems likely that he will be facing real-world and professional consequences.

Edited by Special K
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4 minutes ago, Special K said:

I wonder if CBS is worried that Dan might sue them.  It seems likely that he will be facing real-world and professional consequences.

They sign some pretty long and detailed contracts including giving CBS the right to portray them any way the producers want, with no recourse.

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1 minute ago, DEL901 said:

They sign some pretty long and detailed contracts including giving CBS the right to portray them any way the producers want, with no recourse.

Right.  I wonder, though, if he could bring a suit if his entire career/ability to earn money tanked due to this.  I mean, he might not win, but he could sue.

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9 minutes ago, Special K said:

I wonder if CBS is worried that Dan might sue them.  It seems likely that he will be facing real-world and professional consequences.

eh Other people have had issues with editing and they have gone nowhere. There is plenty of footage of Dan touching women in inappropriate ways to back their edit. We saw some of it last night. I would put solid money on the fact that there is plenty more. There were plenty of aired shots of Kellee telling Dan to stop and to not touch her and Dan ignoring her or trying to defend his touching her. There are probably plenty of confessionals from the women discussing Dan's groppy nature.  Dan would lose in a heartbeat and he knows it.

I don't care what generation you are in, a grown ass man knows better then to stroke another persons leg, regardless of gender, while lying on the grown and that person is sitting there having a conversation. The clips that were shown demonstrated Dan's inappropriate contact with many women and Kellee's telling him to stop.

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3 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

eh Other people have had issues with editing and they have gone nowhere. There is plenty of footage of Dan touching women in inappropriate ways to back their edit. We saw some of it last night. I would put solid money on the fact that there is plenty more. There were plenty of aired shots of Kellee telling Dan to stop and to not touch her and Dan ignoring her or trying to defend his touching her. There are probably plenty of confessionals from the women discussing Dan's groppy nature.  Dan would lose in a heartbeat and he knows it.

I don't care what generation you are in, a grown ass man knows better then to stroke another persons leg, regardless of gender, while lying on the grown and that person is sitting there having a conversation. The clips that were shown demonstrated Dan's inappropriate contact with many women and Kellee's telling him to stop.

It has to be said, over and over again: 

What 48-year-old married man repeatedly paws at and strokes the hips, waists, chests, butts, faces, legs, toes of 20-something women whom he has only known a few weeks (or even days)?   And blatantly restricts that behavior to the most conventionally attractive ones?

I'm starting to think he believes he IS Harvey Weinstein, pre-metoo.

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31 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea really. Production thinks they’re so slick. 

Yes.  Slick in an industry "famous" for lecherous men in power victimizing women (and men) in ways exactly like what Dan, Harvey Weinstein, Matt Lauer, etc., have gotten away with for years.

Disgusting.  Birds of a feather cover for each other.

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11 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I think Dalton did a decent job of dealing with this mess.

Nobody's going to do a good job with this mess, not Dalton Ross, not Rob Cesternino or his ilk, not Josh Howard, not anyone who relies on the show for their livelihood. Because dissecting this mess starts and ends with the producers allowing it to happen in the first place, which means calling out Jeff Probst, CBS, et al, which none of these men will ever, ever do. The fish rots from the head, and the fact that the producers saw this happening and did nothing is something they'll not only have to live with, but something they'll spin hard to avoid blame for.

The producers and the network let down the contestants last night with their inaction and their covering themselves. The producers and the network caused the contestants (except ironically, the harasser himself) to be attacked and harassed. I hope they all slept well last night, because very few contestants probably did.

This is entirely a production failure, and no major media outlet will ever say that, so that's all I have to say about the media coverage here.

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2 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

Nobody's going to do a good job with this mess, not Dalton Ross, not Rob Cesternino or his ilk, not Josh Howard, not anyone who relies on the show for their livelihood. Because dissecting this mess starts and ends with the producers allowing it to happen in the first place, which means calling out Jeff Probst, CBS, et al, which none of these men will ever, ever do. The fish rots from the head, and the fact that the producers saw this happening and did nothing is something they'll not only have to live with, but something they'll spin hard to avoid blame for.

The producers and the network let down the contestants last night with their inaction and their covering themselves. The producers and the network caused the contestants (except ironically, the harasser himself) to be attacked and harassed. I hope they all slept well last night, because very few contestants probably did.

This is entirely a production failure, and no major media outlet will ever say that, so that's all I have to say about the media coverage here.

I think they were hoping their quick little PSA would remove their culpability.  But Jeff didn't even refer to it during Tribal... I know they don't talk about production, but I think maybe this time they should have.  If Dan received an official warning, it was done because they had taped proof supporting Kellee.  

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1 hour ago, Special K said:

It has to be said, over and over again: 

What 48-year-old married man repeatedly paws at and strokes the hips, waists, chests, butts, faces, legs, toes of 20-something women whom he has only known a few weeks (or even days)?   And blatantly restricts that behavior to the most conventionally attractive ones?

I'm starting to think he believes he IS Harvey Weinstein, pre-metoo.

Apparently, a lot of men.  Its been all over the news the last couple of years about politicians, celebrities, newscasters and a whole host of others who have done that (and more).  Its all coming out now because women are more embolden to complain out loud to everyone. 

I bet Dan is not the first male Survivor contestant to do this, there are plenty of past male contestants that I wouldn't be suprised had the same behavior.  Fortunately, women are now being much more vocal in their complaints now.  But yeah, I don't expect CBS/Survivor to do much about it.

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3 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

I find it telling that Kellee and Jamal aren't even allowed to do exit interviews until next week.

I’m curious why this is.  Production knew this happened months ago so they had time to prepare.  Did they not expect the backlash to be so strong, especially at other contestants not named Dan?  I don’t get why they are waiting.  People aren’t going to forget in a week.

I feel like this is doing what everyone online is accusing the show of doing-silencing the victim.  
 

I was just thinking to myself that if there’s any consolation, at least everyone getting backlash can’t defend themselves and just has to let the hate roll in.  But Aaron posted an apology video on his Twitter account.  Not sure if they will make him take it down or if production allowed it.

Edited by LadyChatts
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And, Missy & Elizabeth posted apologies on twitter. Also, Aaron spoke. Dan is laying low which is probably best. I’m sure he had no idea when he finished the game how the show was going to drop all that extra footage of him especially when it came to Kellee. You play the game and you either get voted out early, make jury or possibly win. You think your game is going to be the star. Unfortunately, for him he must have known it would look bad when he got home but even he probably didn’t think it be this big. Most people hate the purple edit. He probably was hoping for one. Yikes!

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12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Nobody's going to do a good job with this mess, not Dalton Ross, not Rob Cesternino or his ilk, not Josh Howard, not anyone who relies on the show for their livelihood. Because dissecting this mess starts and ends with the producers allowing it to happen in the first place, which means calling out Jeff Probst, CBS, et al, which none of these men will ever, ever do. The fish rots from the head, and the fact that the producers saw this happening and did nothing is something they'll not only have to live with, but something they'll spin hard to avoid blame for.

The producers and the network let down the contestants last night with their inaction and their covering themselves. The producers and the network caused the contestants (except ironically, the harasser himself) to be attacked and harassed. I hope they all slept well last night, because very few contestants probably did.

This is entirely a production failure, and no major media outlet will ever say that, so that's all I have to say about the media coverage here.

Well there is always Andy Dehnert.

https://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/2019/11/survivor-island-of-the-idols-episodes-8-and-9-we-made-it-to-the-merge-recap/

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Reality Blurred: Andy might be done with the series. Of course, he does include some wiggle room at the end.

Quote

I have no desire to continue watching the majority of this cast, who have failed each other and been failed by the production.

I’ve never given up mid-season before, and I’ve watched every single episode of Survivor, even through dreadfully boring stretches. Our world has so many examples of people behaving badly and winning anyway that I don’t need more of that from Survivor.

I’ll probably be back next week, hypocrite that I am, but in this moment, I am done with Survivor: Island of the Idols.

ETA: Shit, @LanceM beat me to it. Also, I'm guessing seeing this episode coming made Stephen Fishbach bow out of reviewing this season for People. To be honest, I only look those up for Erik Recihenbach's illustrations. He's moved on to RealityTea.com, and he posted two pieces based off Wednesday's fiasco: "Wrong Side of the Island" and "Right Side of the Island." For a guy who focuses on humor when he works, he did a good job with a serious tone.

Edited by Lantern7
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Most past contestants were predictably mealy-mouthed about the whole thing (other than It Was Bad, and Don't Attack Contestants, You Guys), but Zeke actually called out the institutional failure that allowed this to happen. Zeke is perfect, because Survivor won't say boo to him.

He got more specific in his responses, calling out "the powers that be" as "bad stewards." But other than Zeke and Andy Denhart, sadly I see few people willing to hold production's feet to the fire about this.

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I wonder if Kellee has a law suit based on, "I lost my chance at a million dollars because Dan made me a nervous wreck and production didn't pull him."  She certainly has a better case than Dan's, "Survivor ruined my reputation by airing my actions."

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11 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Most past contestants were predictably mealy-mouthed about the whole thing (other than It Was Bad, and Don't Attack Contestants, You Guys), but Zeke actually called out the institutional failure that allowed this to happen. Zeke is perfect, because Survivor won't say boo to him.

He got more specific in his responses, calling out "the powers that be" as "bad stewards." But other than Zeke and Andy Denhart, sadly I see few people willing to hold production's feet to the fire about this.

John Carroll (from Survivor Marquesas) weighed in and had some interesting insight (if you click on his twitter account there's more of his thoughts therethere). 

In one of his tweets, he compares Rob being homophobic to him and getting rewarded by appearing on All-Stars, among the many other ventures Rob has had through the years (and all John got was hate mail), and Kellee coming forward with a serious accusation and getting voted out.  For the record, I don't believe Kellee was at all targeted because of her accusations against Dan.  In addition, even if Dan had been removed and the game resumed as normal, there's still a good chance she would have gone home.  People still might have been called heartless, but the problem in the equation would have been gone, so you can't really blame people at that point for going back to game mode.  Where it went wrong was not only did Dan not get removed, but advantage people took in the situation for themselves. 

Like some in the media that want to keep their Survivor credentials, I wonder if some former contestants are being careful what they say because they don't want to be blackballed from returning in the future. 

Edited by LadyChatts
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So neat that John "Big deal, I've been out for years" Carroll has decided to make this about himself by equating Rob's asking him if he was gay to Dan groping several different women. So very neat and cool.

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Nobody asked, but here is what Jeff Varner thinks.

He did not watch any prior episodes but thinks his opinion matters.  Also, he is ABSOLUTELY defensive to anyone calling him out about how boneheaded he sounds.

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1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Nobody asked, but here is what Jeff Varner thinks.

He did not watch any prior episodes but thinks his opinion matters.  Also, he is ABSOLUTELY defensive to anyone calling him out about how boneheaded he sounds.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all, I 100% regret how genuinely excited I was, as a season 1 episode 1 viewer, that Varner even made the ballot for the Second Chances season. He seems incapable of stopping himself from digging ever-deeper holes of revisionist history that frame him as a victim. What he wrote about this is based on an even more limited set of facts than what season-long viewers have and contradicts itself, and his responses to people who called him on that are passive-aggressive. Gross.

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Somehow, even Jeff Varner's tweet doesn't infuriate me as much as CBS'. It's like the arsonist standing in the middle of the flaming wreckage of a show, lecturing people, "you know, setting fires is wrong, guys."

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I’m not reading Varner’s thoughts. The only things he should give are thank-you notes to all involved from that episode, which doesn’t completely let him off the hook, but it does loosen things.

Why would you offer your take, Jeff? The only way you look good now is if Mike Skupin gets online from prison to chime in. 🙄

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:43 AM, JudyObscure said:

I wonder if Kellee has a law suit based on, "I lost my chance at a million dollars because Dan made me a nervous wreck and production didn't pull him."  She certainly has a better case than Dan's, "Survivor ruined my reputation by airing my actions."

I tend to doubt it.  She probably signed away most of her rights in the waiver.  Plus, it seems as though production may have given here the option of having Dan kicked out, but she declined. 

Also, she was ready to stay allied with Dan and vote out Missy, because she was a bigger threat.  That would not look good in any lawsuit she filed.  

Dan suing would be foolish, IMO.  He couldn't win and it would only bring more attention to his behavior.  Plus, I'd imagine there is a lot more Feely Dan footage that we did not see, that could be used at trial and made public.   His best bet is to law low and hope this blows over. 

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On 11/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, omophagia said:

Hindsight being 20/20 and all, I 100% regret how genuinely excited I was, as a season 1 episode 1 viewer, that Varner even made the ballot for the Second Chances season. He seems incapable of stopping himself from digging ever-deeper holes of revisionist history that frame him as a victim. What he wrote about this is based on an even more limited set of facts than what season-long viewers have and contradicts itself, and his responses to people who called him on that are passive-aggressive. Gross.

Wow!  Varner is showing that he learned nothing from his outrageous behavior on Game Changers.  He blames "editing" and defends Feely Dan?

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On 11/16/2019 at 4:39 PM, Eolivet said:

Somehow, even Jeff Varner's tweet doesn't infuriate me as much as CBS'. It's like the arsonist standing in the middle of the flaming wreckage of a show, lecturing people, "you know, setting fires is wrong, guys."

I HATE when people try to avoid well deserved criticism by labeling it "bullying" or "threats".  I have seen a ton of negative comments on Elizabeth and Missy's twitter feeds, but I haven't seen any "cyberbullying" or threats.  

Of course, threats of violence have no place in a civilized society and nobody should be making them and anyone who does should face consequences.  But, it seems like the new game is to take non-existent threats or a one or two random idiots making threats and lump all the valid criticism with them.   

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2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Wow!  Varner is showing that he learned nothing from his outrageous behavior on Game Changers.  He blames "editing" and defends Feely Dan?

Richard is defending Elisabeth and Missy and Dan on Elisabeth's feed. It is kind of gross watching some of the Survivor alum trying to help them look good.

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7 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I tend to doubt it.  She probably signed away most of her rights in the waiver.  Plus, it seems as though production may have given here the option of having Dan kicked out, but she declined. 

Also, she was ready to stay allied with Dan and vote out Missy, because she was a bigger threat.  That would not look good in any lawsuit she filed.  

Dan suing would be foolish, IMO.  He couldn't win and it would only bring more attention to his behavior.  Plus, I'd imagine there is a lot more Feely Dan footage that we did not see, that could be used at trial and made public.   His best bet is to law low and hope this blows over. 

I so want Dan to say it was editing and have the Production team take him apart the way they did Dan Foley. That was absolutely gorgeous. Dan Foley spent his interview time and all the aftermath talking about how CBS did not show a specific scene which would totally put some of the bad stuff in a different light. So CBS showed the scene at the reunion and it did nothing for his case.

Dan has to know that they have even more footage then what was shown. And they have the counseling session on film. There is no way they did not film that session. CBS went out of the way to show the many feels of Dan in other episodes and the ladies reaction to the many feels of Dan. And none of it was positive.

I would almost like to see him sue because I suspect he would lose and lose badly.

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4 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Richard is defending Elisabeth and Missy and Dan on Elisabeth's feed. It is kind of gross watching some of the Survivor alum trying to help them look good.

They all have their own agendas. Richard claims that false accusations are being made about Dan because he thinks that makes his claim that Sue made a false accusation about him look more credible. Never mind that the others who were there said they saw it happen. Varner says the editing is making Dan look bad, just like the editing made him look bad. Except we heard him out Zeke and we heard his subsequent insincere apology tour. Any minute now, Colton, Naonka, Alicia, Dan Foley, and those two hairy idiots from Kaoh Rong should be chiming in to lend their support to poor misunderstood Dan.

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Richard? Buddy? When you chime in, we gotta remember you grinding on Sue in S8. Sure, Mogo Mogo didn't vote you out for that, but you basically made her feel isolated, and she wound up rage-quitting. I guess what I'm trying to say is SHUT THE FUCK UP, HATCH. You are so 2000.

Seriously, CBS wanted violence back then. They changed the seating for the S8 reunion, but the only thing separating Richard and Sue was Rob Cesternino. If Sue wanted Machiabelly's throat to chew on, I don't think Rob would have been an effective deterrent.

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I've often wondered if Varner was encouraged by a producer to out Zeke at TC just for the sake of drama.  Not that it makes any difference really, he's the one who chose to go ahead and do it, but I've still always wondered.

15 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Richard? Buddy? When you chime in, we gotta remember you grinding on Sue in S8.

Grinding on Sue while he was NAKED.  Shut up forever, Hatch!

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1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Wow!  Varner is showing that he learned nothing from his outrageous behavior on Game Changers.  He blames "editing" and defends Feely Dan?

The thing that got me was that he blames editing only when it comes to Feely Dan himself. Elizabeth and Missy he completely hangs out to dry, with no thought that maybe editing is a factor with their portrayals.

In the episode thread someone said that Varner at least knew what he'd done was wrong and seemed sincerely sorry for it. At the time, maybe, but he's definitely walking it back now. Ugh.  

Edited by MissEwa
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9 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

The thing that got me was that he blames editing only when it comes to Feely Dan himself. Elizabeth and Missy he completely hangs out to dry, with no thought that maybe editing is a factor with their portrayals.

In the episode thread someone said that Varner at least knew what he'd done was wrong and seemed sincerely sorry for it. At the time, maybe, but he's definitely walking it back now. Ugh.  

It was a long time ago, but I don't think I ever bought that Varner was sorry.  To me, he comes across as the type who is incapable of sincerity.  He seems like he is always putting on an act. 

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35 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was a long time ago, but I don't think I ever bought that Varner was sorry.  To me, he comes across as the type who is incapable of sincerity.  He seems like he is always putting on an act. 

The only sense in which I ever considered Varner “sorry” for his outing of Zeke, was the degree of regret Varner felt for how vociferously the planet bit Varner in the ass afterwards.

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I've seen a couple Kellee exit interviews today, and it strikes me as odd that they were conducted via email when the normal procedure is by phone. I wonder if that was her choice or if production/CBS mandated that? I haven't seen anything from Jamal yet, but I imagine that will be forthcoming. 

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1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was a long time ago, but I don't think I ever bought that Varner was sorry.  To me, he comes across as the type who is incapable of sincerity.  He seems like he is always putting on an act. 

25 minutes ago, Nashville said:

The only sense in which I ever considered Varner “sorry” for his outing of Zeke, was the degree of regret Varner felt for how vociferously the planet bit Varner in the ass afterwards.

Yeah he was definitely more 'sorry you're all mad at me' or 'sorry that happened' than he was sorry for anything he actually did. But at least at some point he did seem to understand that he should be apologising, even if it was self-serving.

And when that didn't get everyone off his back, he flipped to defensive finger-pointing, and has been there ever since. 

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4 hours ago, MissEwa said:

The thing that got me was that he blames editing only when it comes to Feely Dan himself. Elizabeth and Missy he completely hangs out to dry, with no thought that maybe editing is a factor with their portrayals.

In the episode thread someone said that Varner at least knew what he'd done was wrong and seemed sincerely sorry for it. At the time, maybe, but he's definitely walking it back now. Ugh.  

I think Varner felt a combination of sorry/defensive over what he eventually thought was an inaccurate portrayal (and also didn't think TPTB should have aired it).  I have always had mixed feelings about them airing it, mainly because it seemed exploitative and more for shock value.  Then again, I imagine there would have been a lot of backlash for not airing it.  Something about that incident always bugged me.  I kind of felt like Varner got set up for some reason.  

Regardless, his actions were inexcusable.  But I understand why the likes of him and Hatch would be so quick to defend Feely Dan.  Don't forget that Hatch believes TPTB and CBS left him to rot in jail for not paying his taxes, when he claims they planned to pay them to avoid Hatch coming forward with cheating claims on their end.

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https://my.xfinity.com/ed/tv/2019/11/19/survivor-castaway-kellee-if-dan-had-respected-boundaries-none-of-this-would-have-been-an-issue/

Gordon did a good job.

Quote

NOTE: “Survivor” exit interviews are traditionally conducted over the phone. However, due to the sensitive nature of the events of this season, it was decided that the interviews with Kellee Kim and Jamal Shipman would take place over email.

Quote

Holmes: Janet felt Elizabeth and Missy crossed the line with how they talked about Dan to sway her vote. Do you agree? And if not, is there a line for how far deception can go on “Survivor”?

Kim: First, I would like to say that if Dan had respected boundaries, none of this would have been an issue. Second, for me, I draw the ethical line at using a sexual harassment situation to bond or to further myself in the game or in life. If people lie or use it as a tool, it confuses and tarnishes the truthful stories. Third, there is no such thing as an innocent bystander. By staying silent or “not knowing,” you are complicit. By not taking a side, you enable the behavior. Fourth, it’s not a fair playing field; life is not a fair playing field, especially for young women. Not only are we trying to strategize and play the game, but deal with unwelcome advances, touching, and harassment. 

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I’m wondering if this email business is so the Survivor producers can vet the responses, check they’re okay with their legal team?

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The producers are still blowing this whole thing. They had months to prepare & now they still want to muzzle (control) Kellee via email Q&A versus an actual exit interview. It’s almost like they hope it will blow over by the tine the finale rolls around. God knows what will happen when Dan is voted out or makes the finale. He’s the main culprit of all of this and it’s been crickets with him. Crazy!

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I don’t think the email is to muzzle anyone. Three interviews I read asked pointed questions about the situation. Her responses have been consistent if worded differently. Gordon Holmes explained that the decision was made to be sensitive. 

Quote

NOTE: “Survivor” exit interviews are traditionally conducted over the phone. However, due to the sensitive nature of the events of this season, it was decided that the interviews with Kellee Kim and Jamal Shipman would take place over email.

Kellee Kim: I appreciate the time and space in which people have given me to find my voice. I did not have any choice on if and how the story would be told. CBS did not allow me to view the episode early, and it has been difficult for me to both grapple with my feelings and figure out what to say.

It sounds like it was easier for Kellee to take written questions and have the time to process her responses. And she appreciated the delay for obvious reasons.

no idea why Jamal would have needed emailed interviews but I suspect they wanted to give Kellee the first word.

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