S02.E26: Girl Meets STEM

[RedFire2000]

Riley is upset when the boys at school won’t let her participate in a science experiment and attempts to become more involved.

 

 

[madhacker]

ok that episode had some serious life lesson anvils but it was still pretty good.

[FrumiusManxome]

The lesson that girls shouldn't box themselves in is a good one, but the execution was so poorly done. 

 

First off, everything was way overblown. Yes, Riley and her friends are at the age that they grow disinterested in math, science, etc. But Riley, completely ignored the fact that not everything is a feminist issue. Some girls (like myself and Maya) are just lazy. And not every facet of ones life needs to be examined from an activist standpoint. Like don't sell yourself short, sure, but also don't force yourself to do something you know you don't/won't like for the sake of a point. Also there are different types of science anyways. I hate chemistry with every fiber of my being, but I really like biology, for example. Riley made this such a large issue when only she was personally offended. Also Riley calling  Farkle a sexist pig was uncalled for. He genuinely did not understand the issue, but after Riley explained it he got it and apologized. There was no need for the insult.

 

I was also struck by how detached this show is from reality. I don't know one person who wouldn't take an easy A. Especially in this day and age when the emphasis is placed on the grade/end result rather than the actual learning. Riley had a point in that they should want to learn, but they shouldn't be shamed for not caring either. 

 

And I think the teachers' underlying motives was stupid. Like if he didn't specify that the girls drop the marble then there was no way to ensure that the girls would, thus his assertion that girls stop doing work at this age rang false. What if the girl and boy did the actual calculations together and the girl just happens to be the one who drops the marble? And as a teacher rather than fail the kids for some arbitrary lesson on gender politics, why not actually push the girls to participate? You know, like an actual real life teacher who is grading on participation should. 

 

For once, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I enjoyed Ava. I find that giving kids trophies for basically nothing doesn't do anything for them. It doesn't encourage them to do more or try harder because like Auggie said "I'm getting a trophy anyways". And it also tends to create this idea that nothing they do is actually good you're only doing it to save their feelings (I say this, from personal experience). 

 

I also found Topanga weirdly condescending this episode??? When she talked to Maya it didn't sound like a cute little interaction, it sounded like she was speaking to a 5 year old. Especially since she used the same voice with Ava. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by FrumiusManxome

[CheetaraThunder]

Yeah, when I saw the episode early: I thought the lesson was great for young girls and women overall. But, the way they approached it left little to be desired.

I get that Riley wants the girls to not regulate and typecast themselves, but she went WAY overboard. None of the guys, especially Farkle said that they should Drop the marble because they are girls. Farkle felt that he was better at science because he just knew more about science then anyone.

Plus, just because the girls weren't interested in science, doesn't mean they are doomed. Maya LOVES creative arts and fought for that to be kept in school, she just not interested in science.

But the interactions between the pairs were pretty hilarious.

[Kromm]

Any episode where we actually get to see other teachers has already got a headstart on being a decent one.

[Texasmom1970]

It was nice to see Riley acting more mature this episode. But damn was I annoyed by Maya whining to Lucas about having to drop a marble. Unecessary hogging of screen time to me.

I know others including myself have said it before but I really saw chemistry between Riley and Farkle, no science pun intended ☺

[Kromm]

But damn was I annoyed by Maya whining to Lucas about having to drop a marble. Unecessary hogging of screen time to me.

I don't get it. That was written for her. The actress didn't suddenly decide to just toss it in.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Kromm

[Primetimer]

Riley struggles, just like the rest of us.

Read the story

[Texasmom1970]

I am not blaming Sabrina for the crap the writers are giving her to do, I think it is an useless scene that made her character annoying. Which bugs me because I like Maya on the show. More so when they have her being strong and funny.

Just wish the writers would have come up for a better or more toned down way to play that scene. Instead they have her fuss, pout and baby talk her way through it

[absnow54]

As a woman in a STEM field, I appreciated the effort on the show's part, but I kind of missed the science part. All Riley really did was generically shout that she liked science. I think the show did a good job of addressing gender roles and feminism, but I wish they showed at least one of the girls actively figuring out the experiment and using her unique perspective to solve the problem. I guess I would have preferred if the teacher had introduce the experiment and let the students pick which role they'd like and then force them to switch places. Both sides could complain and walk themselves into "but that's the boy's job corner!" and then in the lab the girls could realize that they can bring their own interests to find the answer. Or something. The show made it clear that it was okay for girls to like science, but I missed the why.

[SmithW6079]

Turned it off as soon as the girls started blaming the boys.

Edited January 9, 2016 by SmithW6079

[AmandaPanda]

Okay, so yes, it was totally anvillicious. However, I appreciated the sentiment. It was at best a clumsy approach to conveying that idea, but I liked that they were even undertaking it. I agree that the girls should not have been blaming the boys, but at the same time, it would have been way above them to blame society as a whole. They're still middle schoolers. There has to be some sort of villain and it's easiest to blame the boys in the class.

[RedFire2000]

This episode was garbage. I have never hated Riley as much as in this episode. The false sexist accusation was so cringeworthy. There was no need for Riley to go off on Farkle like that. Riley seemed mean and out of character and that's probably because I didn't see Riley in this episode. All I saw was Rowan's real life persona coming out. Farkle didn't ask her to drop the marble because she was a girl, he asked because he already knew what the fuck he was doing and she didn't. Should he have let Riley take the initiative and do the research bit? Sure, because she seemed to want to learn. But was his reasoning had nothing to do with her gender. She baselessly called him a sexist pig for pete's sake and didn't even apoligize. Riley basically runs this whole damn school. God, this episode pissed me off so much.

 

Don't even get me started on the amount of poor thinking that went into her argument for girls all having to try harder / take initiative so they can be the best they can be. Should have been called Girl Meets Tumblr Feminism.

Edited January 9, 2016 by MoonWalker

[SmithW6079]

This episode was garbage. I have never hated Riley as much as in this episode. The false sexist accusation was so cringeworthy. There was no need for Riley to go off on Farkle like that. Riley seemed mean and out of character and that's probably because I didn't see Riley in this episode. All I saw was Rowan's real life persona coming out. Farkle didn't ask her to drop the marble because she was a girl, he asked because he already knew what the fuck he was doing and she didn't. Should he have let Riley take the initiative and do the research bit? Sure, because she seemed to want to learn. But was his reasoning had nothing to do with her gender. She baselessly called him a sexist pig for pete's sake and didn't even apoligize. Riley basically runs this whole damn school. God, this episode pissed me off so much.

Don't even get me started on the amount of poor thinking that went into her argument for girls all having to try harder / take initiative so they can be the best they can be. Should have been called Girl Meets Tumblr Feminism.

But Riley was justified because patriarchy.

[Kromm]

I am not blaming Sabrina for the crap the writers are giving her to do, I think it is an useless scene that made her character annoying. Which bugs me because I like Maya on the show. More so when they have her being strong and funny.

Just wish the writers would have come up for a better or more toned down way to play that scene. Instead they have her fuss, pout and baby talk her way through it

Sounds good. I guess the problem was the phrase "hogging of screen time". That's something an actress would do, not a character. Characters aren't aware they have screen time!

"Mugging" (as in the non-criminal meaning of that phrase) might qualify for both though. Maya likes attention. It's a strong part of her character, but the show can go overboard with it on occasion.

[Pallida]

I was bothered by both of the messages in this episode.  Yes, it's important to support women in STEM, but the way this was handled was quite poor.  I would have much preferred the girls recognizing their own disinterest and reflecting on why they had such disinterest.  Riley could have been the middle ground of "I like science, but I don't know it well enough - why is this?"  And then bring in Smackle!  Blaming Farkle, who has been all about science all along, is a copout.  Getting girls into STEM includes making girls think they want to be interested and that they are capable.  That was handwaved.

 

Also, I hate the whole "participation trophies make people lazy" crap.  While I support winners getting achievement trophies, I think people who actually participate deserve recognition to their dedication as well.  Standing there and watching a ball go by doesn't count as participation.  Auggie wasn't trying to play.  That's not the fault of participation trophies - that's laziness.  Like Maya...

[augmentedfourth]

Yeah, this was really awkward and clunky, despite having a reasonable message somewhere in there. Two thoughts:

 

1) I think the premise might have made a tiiiiny bit more sense if Riley had been paired with Lucas instead of Farkle. Farkle didn't want Riley to drop the marble and him to do the "science" part because he's a boy and she's a girl; he did it because he's the "smart" one and wanted to ensure a good grade. (Not to mention, as others have said, Farkle has always supported Riley in everything she does.) If it had been Lucas, who hasn't been pigeonholed into the "nerdy" role, or shown to be as concerned with getting good grades, the premise of putting the boys and girls into their expected roles might have carried more weight.

 

2) Even though this was a weak episode, Topanga was pretty good, as I hoped she would be as soon as I learned what it was about. I actually loved the part where she kept nudging that one girl from "I like shoes" to "I want to work in the shoe business" to "I want to OWN the shoe business". I also liked that she was the type of parent who rolled her eyes at everyone getting a trophy. In an episode where everyone else was written sloppily, I think they stayed pretty true to Topanga's character.

[mommalib]

I liked the message but reasoning didn't make any sense. As far the relationships I couldn't care less about Maya and Lucas but there is a definite spark between Riley and Farkle.

[madhacker]

to everybody who said that there was something between Riley and Farkle: Thank You!! I thought I was all alone in my suspicions that there seemed to be something between them that was a bit more than friendship. I've always thought that Farkle liked Riley way more than just a friend, as in he's probably been in love with her for quite a while and just hasn't figured it out....yet. Am I the only one who would kinda like it if they ended up together?

[AmandaPanda]

I'm right there with you, madhacker. But I'm a sucker for any story where the "geek" ends up with the love interest.

[ybrik]

The episode was decent but did have some problems with its execution. It also hurt by seeming to try to put in too many messages in one episode. There was how girls need to stay active in learning in STEM classes. Girls/women need to not settle for less to appease others. Children shouldn't just settle for participation awards but actively try to be the best. Boys and girls need to look at each other as equals. Being too intent on looking for differences only helps in dividing people.

 

The last one was kind of muddled at the end. Riley mentions to Maya towards the end that the guys are amazing and that they lost sight of that because of the whole guy/girl thing.

 

The ep also seemed weird because after Farkle tells Riley he never wants to not help her learn/succeed and she seemed to be effected by this, then the next scene in the science class she is calling him a sexist pig. I also think she did need to apologize to Farkle.

 

Agree with above poster that the ep would have worked better if it had been Lucas and Riley as partners or even Zay and Riley or Maya. I also think this could have been split into two episodes. The first one focusing on the girls learning/participating in STEM classes. Then the next episode have the girls go overboard like they did and have the lesson about the guy/girls getting in the way of seeing them as friends.

 

And yes to the whole Farkle/Riley dynamic. Of the kids they have the best chemistry outside Riley/Maya.

[mommalib]

I'm right there with you, madhacker. But I'm a sucker for any story where the "geek" ends up with the love interest.

Yeah me too. lol

[Anisky]

I think the premise might have made a tiiiiny bit more sense if Riley had been paired with Lucas instead of Farkle. Farkle didn't want Riley to drop the marble and him to do the "science" part because he's a boy and she's a girl; he did it because he's the "smart" one and wanted to ensure a good grade. (Not to mention, as others have said, Farkle has always supported Riley in everything she does.) If it had been Lucas, who hasn't been pigeonholed into the "nerdy" role, or shown to be as concerned with getting good grades, the premise of putting the boys and girls into their expected roles might have carried more weight.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking, and it's why I think it was very unfair of Riley to accuse Farkle of being sexist. Farkle would have insisted on being the one who did the experimentation no matter WHO his partner was, because he is the "smart one"; he'd have acted in exactly the same way if his partner were male as female, which is pretty much the definition of not-being-sexist. The only possible lab partner among characters we've met where Farkle would not automatically be he one doing the experimentation part would be Smackle, and while the two of them would probably have gotten into an epic argument about which of them got to do the actual science if they were in that position, it would have had nothing to do with gender.

I disagree with some of what the recap said. I think the episode DID address that it's also worthy for girls/women to pursue non-STEM fields; the point was just that if they give up on it at age 13/14, then they will have fewer opportunities and lots of doors closed off. As Riley said to Maya, it wasn't that Maya should be a scientist; it's that Maya should think it's possible for her to be a scientist. It's not that all girls/women ought to go into STEM, it's that they shouldn't dismiss the possibility so early in their lives and education. I thought the episode was fairly explicit about that.

Also, I don't think that the "experiment" that the science teacher did was the same kind of experiment as the Stanford Prison Experiment; I don't think it would have needed to pass an ethics review, because it wasn't an ACTUAL experiment. It was just a lesson that depended on the students acting a certain way. It was actually kind of elegant, because if the students acted the way he expected, then he could go on with his lesson as intended; however, if ever the students DIDN'T act that way, then that would be a class that didn't NEED that lesson, so it wouldn't matter that he couldn't teach the lesson he usually taught.

I did find the fact that ALL of the marble-droppers were girls not very true to life. At that age, I (who art female) would have been the automatic choice to do the actual work, unless I was paired with one or two particular other students (which would have been unlikely because most teachers didn't allow two top students to partner up until high school when honors classes began). If I had been paired with one of those, we would have argued until we brought it to the teacher that both of us wanted to do the difficult part.

GMW just didn't at all capture the subtlety that makes really makes this issue much more insidious than it was portrayed in this episode. To wit: girls get, on average, slightly higher grades than boys, because girls are more concerned with *being good students* and *being conscientious about their work*. Any honor-roll girl paired with a boy with mediocre grades would have insisted on doing the science part, because she wouldn't have been willing to risk him being lazy and saddling her with a bad grade. That doesn't mean that girls don't turn away from STEM around middle school, but the issue is kind of hidden by the "smart girls"' determination to get a good grade in every class, even whilst thinking that she doesn't like/ isn't naturally good at science or math.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Anisky

[blugirlami21]

I think this was probably one of my least favorite episodes. Like everyone else said, there was too much going on and way too many lessons trying to happen at once. This one is almost worse than the cheerleading one where Riley is full speed ahead trying to push her agenda no matter how wrong it is and she ultimately gets rewarded for it.

She was really mean to Farkle in this episode when he had done nothing to deserve it. She should have apologized.

I'm all for girls standing up for themselves and/or being as interested in sciences as the boys but this was the wrong situation for it. I see more people are coming to love Farley as much as me. They're adorable when Riley isn't being a pigheaded monster.

I thought Maya and Lucas were cute, although I'm not sure how I feel about them all if a sudden emphasizing this super lazy trait in Maya. I'm going to side eye that one since it was so extra in this episode.

I also didn't like that Riley made it seem like you had to like science to succeed in life. You don't. Sometimes you have to play up your strengths.

I will say that plot b with Auggie touched on a subject that bothers me as well. The idea that you should be rewarded for nothing just because you're a child. There's no merit in that and I'm glad that Ava made Auggie realize that trophies should be earned not just given to you for showing up.

[ladyrott]

Loved the idea behind the episode (it's great for girls to like science....even if I was never one of them), but thought the execution left a lot to be desired. If they wanted Riley to act that she was being relegated to non-science-y part of the experiment because she was a girl, then they should have given her someone other than Farkle, who is in no way a chauvinist, as her lab partner. What about Billy? Nobody expects Riley to end up with him, so why not make him a guy who thinks girls are of no use in the lab? Or if they don't want to make us dislike a semi-regular character, stick a new guy in there to be the chauvinist.

Speaking of new guys....Yay for another teacher at the school! I really liked that the science teacher was in charge of the life lesson this week. Time to give Cory a break as the constant life guru for these kids. Plus, got a kick out of seeing him try to actually teach them some (boring) history and get nowhere. The final interaction between Cory, science teacher, Riley and Maya was also kind of nice.

Very glad I wasn't the only one picking up on some romantic vibes between Riley and Farkle. Now that Farkle has become a little more mainstream (but remains the Farkle I love), he and Riley seem kind of cute together. Certainly like them better than Lucas/Riley. And wow, Ava was actually GOOD this episode. LOVED her reason why she was dirty (she hugged Auggie when he did well) after pushing Auggie in the mud when he did badly. I don't have a huge problem with participation trophies, but I do think they should be smaller than the champions trophy.

[KaveDweller]

Farkle didn't ask her to drop the marble because she was a girl, he asked because he already knew what the fuck he was doing and she didn't. Should he have let Riley take the initiative and do the research bit? Sure, because she seemed to want to learn. But was his reasoning had nothing to do with her gender.

 

Yeah if Farkle was partnered with Lucas he would have expected Lucas to drop the marble and to do the research himself.  And if Maya and Riley were partnered up Maya would have wanted to do the easy part.  I liked the message of the episode, but it was a bit poorly executed. It would have been nice to see at least one other girl be thinking like Riley and not have them all need to learn the lesson. Some girls do like science.  Also, if this teacher has been doing the experiment for years, I think the students would have heard about it and known there was some kind of twist.

 

I did like that there's another teacher at this school who teaches life lessons instead of what is actually in the state standards.  

[Akenta]

Overall, I really liked this episode.  I understand everyone's problems with how they try to deliver the message, but I liked the message.  I didn't really understand why all the partners were boy/girl.  I would expect Maya and Riley to want to always team up. 

 

They did show one girl (Brenda? who was on screen for a few seconds that I don't ever remember seeing) who looked to be really into science.

 

I thought they did a great job with Topanga.  She sounded like the Topagnaga from BMW.

 

The participation trophy message was also enjoyable.  It was good to see Ava helping Auggie like a true friend.

 

And surprisingly, this is the first time I actually felt chemistry between Farkle and Riley.  I hope they keep them friends until at least high school and wait until then to try and start a romance.

[AmandaPanda]

As a teacher, I typically try to do boy/girl seating when I'm figuring out a seating chart. You never want to have students next to each other who are best friends because they generally won't stop talking. If they aren't already friends, sitting them next to each other typically means they're going to end up as friends or enemies. Especially in the younger grades, if you sit them by boy/girl, then you've got a good shot at avoiding any personality conflicts. 

[Gwen-Stacys]

I guess the episode didn't bother me as much as it did everyone else? I thought the turn around in the end wasn't that the boys were a problem, but the girls themselves were. They were fine with being relegated to dropping the marble and put up little to no fight to do the actual sciency part of the lesson. And when they tried to paint the boys as misogynists, they all fired back at them. Lucas telling Maya that he was willing to do the work because he knew that she was to lazy to (and she showed and said as much in the beginning of the episode) and Farkle telling Riley that science was his thing....He is smarter in science than she is. And I liked that he brought up Susan B. Anthony....and Riley even seemed to be a little cowed by his rebuttal to her calling him sexist.

 

This episode was more aimed at the girls this episode, and the takeaway was to try. You can't afford to be lazy

 

The B-story was on point. Participation trophies/ribbons p*ss me off way more than they should. And I say this as someone that has/does coach.

[schroob]

This episode felt tone deaf to me.

First, why would Riley blow her top and decide sexism was in play, especially with one of her best friends who has always been her biggest cheerleaders? Also, why would it be such a big deal to switch partners or (as Anisky also pointed out) have both people participate in both steps? Instead she goes for Farkle's jugular and threatens his grade, which is very un-Riley (becausw she's always thepositive person). It's good that the final resolution was that the young women had to take charge of their futures, but it felt awkward getting there.

[Perfect Xero]

I guess the episode didn't bother me as much as it did everyone else? I thought the turn around in the end wasn't that the boys were a problem, but the girls themselves were. They were fine with being relegated to dropping the marble and put up little to no fight to do the actual sciency part of the lesson. And when they tried to paint the boys as misogynists, they all fired back at them. Lucas telling Maya that he was willing to do the work because he knew that she was to lazy to (and she showed and said as much in the beginning of the episode) and Farkle telling Riley that science was his thing....He is smarter in science than she is. And I liked that he brought up Susan B. Anthony....and Riley even seemed to be a little cowed by his rebuttal to her calling him sexist.

 

This episode was more aimed at the girls this episode, and the takeaway was to try. You can't afford to be lazy

 

The B-story was on point. Participation trophies/ribbons p*ss me off way more than they should. And I say this as someone that has/does coach.

 

Then perhaps they should have had the girls apologize to the boys for they way they were treating them? I mean, they were literally trying to murder one of them ...

[Gwen-Stacys]

Then perhaps they should have had the girls apologize to the boys for they way they were treating them? I mean, they were literally trying to murder one of them ...

Oh I agree. There should've been more than just Riley's comment to Maya that their guy friends are pretty wonderful (IDK the exact quote), or she should've at least said it to them. But I guess in Disney speak, her and Farkle's (still wanna just call him Minkus) "partners" thing was probably it.

[DarkRaichu]

Farkle's point in regard to Marie Curie (ie, as long as the brain is there, body/gender should not matter) should have been the focus, instead of trying to FORCE girls to like science.  These types of generalization are nuts: 

1. People are individuals with different interests and levels of interest

2. The field of science has many branches.  I know people (girls and boys) who love math but absolutely hate biology.  Others like chemistry but have no interest in geometry. etc etc

 

Also teacher's premise was whacked.  They shared a grade on a science project so it was logical for Farkle with his brain to be more suited to do the analysis.   If I (a male) was in a team with Mia Hamm and the assignment was 1 person kicks a ball to a target 10 times and the other picks up the ball and brings it back to a kicker, who do you think will be running back and forth picking up the ball regardless of gender?

 

This was the first time I like Ava

Edited January 14, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Mabinogia]

Farkle's point in regard to Marie Curie (ie, as long as the brain is there, body/gender should not matter) should have been the focus, instead of trying to FORCE girls to like science. - DarkRaichu

I can't do quotes for some reason. Anyhow, this was my main issue with the show. Why do girls have to like science? Some just don't. And that's okay. I felt like the show was trying to tell the girls out there watching that they were losers if they didn't want to learn STEM stuff.

Another issue: How could Riley think that Farkle would NOT want to do the science himself. If he were paired with Lucas he would still have insisted on doing the science and having Lucas drop the marble. Hell, if he were paired with Einstein he'd probably want him to drop the marble. That's Farkle. I think the ep would have worked better if Riley had been paired with Lucas or Zay or pretty much anyone but Farkle. But expecting the Boy Genius to not want to do the main part of the project is stupid. And thinking it was for sexist reasons is stupider. It really muddied the message they were trying to send.

And I must say, the chemistry between Riley and Farkle was off the charts this ep. I've always thought, intellectually, that they could end up together but this was the first time I felt they had "it" and now I'm totally on board with Riley and Farkle. I like Smackle but I was really feeling R&F this ep. (they are kids, I feel like a pervy old lady now. lol)

I like what the show was trying to say but feel like it didn't execute the message in a way that will really get across.

Did like Ava and Auggie's storyline this time. Participation Awards are lame.

[dmmetler]

I have a girl who loves biology and is basically the Farkle of her friend group. She's very popular when it comes to picking lab partners because they know that she'll do all the work, and they'll get a good grade. 

I don't think the problem is girls vs boys, but a class set up where it is possible for one person to do a lion's share of the work (as opposed to both doing the analysis, comparing notes, and then, together, drawing conclusions, and requiring that both sets of work be part of the final paper).  

 

I do see a place for a participation award when achievement is also recognized. That is, Ava might get an award for MVP or most goals scored or whatever, but if Augie is going and practicing and trying each week, I think it's reasonable to recognize that this is an achievement, too-especially for a child his age who is still learning the sport.  I do think there's a place to recognize the kid who tries harder to get a C (and I really wish they'd show more of those kids on TV as opposed to always making them slacker underachievers who, in a VSE, are shown to have dyslexia) or who struggles to get on the team but is out practicing and working to improve (as opposed to Riley talking her way onto the cheer team without even a throwaway line about spending the last year taking tumbling classes to improve). Sometimes, it can be a lot harder to be a "participant" than to be an "MVP".