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S01.E06: Retrofit

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Miller gains valuable information from a hidden data cube. Holden and his crew learn their host’s agenda.

 

 

 

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Wasn't quite sure what to make of all those scenes with the guy and his uncle, who I guess are some kind of asteroid minors.  It sounded like those soldiers who were harassing them were from Mars, and I'm guessing the uncle decided to just drive the ship into them, as a fuck you.  I think.  Still kind of confused about that.  But I'm guessing that the young guy floating around means he'll be back and maybe this will somehow fit into the big picture.

 

Figured Miller was going to somehow get out of his capture in the end, but I was still riveted during all of his scenes with Anderson. Finding out what he did to his sister was ice cold.  Jared Harris is really making Anderson a menacing character and someone I can totally buy as a major threat.  But Miller cracks the drive and figures out the OPA is looking for some kind of bioweapon, only for the police chief to be corrupt (in the OPA's pocker?  Or someone else?), and is now fired and lost all of the evidence.  Have no clue what Miller's next step will be.

 

Continue to love almost everything involving the Rochinate crew.  Glad Holden finally opened up about being the one that sent the distress call, and while there was some fallout at first, it led to them reuniting again and possibly being even stronger.  Also enjoyed the scene with Alex and Amos as the bar (and it sounded like Amos use to be a hustler?), and Holden and Naomi having drinks and toasting the dead.

 

Fred continues to be an interesting mystery. I wonder what he wants with that chip he pulled from Lopez's corpse.

 

Chrisjen returns and continue to do her thing, but I'm still wondering how she'll fit into all of this.  But I'm not going to complain too much about scenes that involve Shohreh Aghdashloo being awesome and facing off against Shawn Doyle some more.

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He didnt drive the Ship into them ,he slingshotet the Asteroideparts they there Mining into the Traktory of there Ship like a Shotgun Blast, his Ship they cut have destroyed but there there far to many Asteroideparts to destroy or avoide them.

Edited by Andrew Wiggin

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This show feels like there are too many disparate threads and I still don't feel particularly invested in the characters. I'm not sure I'll continue watching in real time. I may binge watch it later to see if it ever got to a freaking point.

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Not sure if Dawes declaring Miller's motive was a crush on Mao was lampshading it or a shout out. Tend to suspect the latter. 

 

The attack on the Martian ship is another step closer to general war, meant to ratchet the tension. 

 

I think Johnson was the one who sent the mystery ship to steal the weapon and now he's finessed Holden into looking for Mao, the sole survivor of Phoebe/Scopuli, thus the last clue to the weapon. 

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Just when I was starting to really like this show (Tyreese! Chad Colman can make any show better) the stuff with the asteroid miners really seemed like a waste of time to me. I am supposed to care, why? More scenes of people whose names I don't know, and how do we get from "we don't have enough fuel, we'll die for sure," to "I'll dump you out in space, don't worry space is a very small place, someone will come and rescue you. It's not like distress beacons turn out to be traps set by pirates so often that people routinely ignore them or anything. A man's got to STAND UP!" This feels like they are picking scenes to include and cut in an adaptation of a larger work in order to serve the plot, which is okay, but the world doesn't seem to have much internal logic. I'm guessing this is because of the cuts they've had to make and the world makes more sense in the source material.

 

Miller (that's Detective Tom Waits, right? I learned his name!) is in love with Julie Mao? Have they ever met? Has he considered asking out his impossibly hot partner who saved his life? She's into you man, she killed for you. Plus now that you're fired it's not even an ethics violation anymore. And she's (probably) not a terrorist!

 

If the codenamed person the crew of the Cant is going to rescue doesn't turn out to be Julie Mao, I'm going to be seriously annoyed. But I love not knowing where this is going, and I will avoid spoilers like zombie plague victims wearing Donald Trump's toupee. And how much do I love the idea of Space Mormons? Are they building that ship to go find Kolob?

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So Avasarala is still losing friends by playing cards that really offend them. She's not pulling her punches, but it doesn't seem to be really getting her anywhere yet. As far as I can tell, she doesn't have a clue what's going on.

 

The standoff between Holden and Amos and Fred Johnson was pretty tense. Naomi problem-solving as ever, though. You've got to love PDC systems. I'm really enjoying Dominique Tipper's performances as Naomi. She's intense and closed off, but there's something simmering under the surface. She does a wonderful line in withering glares as well. But she's open enough that I buy her thawing under Holden's charm.

 

The scene with Amos and Alex in the bar was interesting. Was Amos saying that he'd been a prostitute in the past, or just that he'd spent time around them? And Alex's thwarted ambitions to be a military pilot are finally being realised. Some relationship-building between the crew in this one. Not before time, either. They finally got a few minutes to sit down and talk, rather than running like hell from whoever is most recently trying to kill them.

 

Anderson Dawes is a serious sonofabitch, isn't he? Is he the Malcolm X to Fred Johnson's Martin Luther King, to use the easy comparison? Johnson is all about "earning a place at the table" and getting Earth and Mars to recognise the OPA as legitimate. Dawes is about violence, but supposedly righteous violence. I didn't take his suggestion that Miller is in love with Julie as sincere. He was just mocking what he saw as an older guy's obsession with a pretty young woman who may or may not be in need of saving. I don't know where Jared Harris came up with the accent, but it somehow makes Dawes more menacing.

 

And of course he's got his fingers in Star Helix, he probably has dirt and/or has compromised everyone of any importance on Ceres. Though if Miller tends to get this obsessive about cases, I don't know why his boss gave him this one in the first place. Perhaps the contract came in and was assigned before Dawes knew anything. Something tells me he doesn't give a shit about Julie, though. More interested in whatever it is on Phoebe.

 

Scipio Africanus is a pretty great name for a starship, I have to say. Particularly a Martian one, given that Mars was the Roman god of war. I figure those miners were just there to show that tensions are rising and provocations are starting to mount, on all sides. And how perceived injustices can drive people to do extreme things. So now Mars has killed another Belter ship, even though they were provoked. That can't be good for anyone's calm.

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This is an episode that sort of grew on me long after I finished watching.  Immediately after it ended, I wasn't too sure I liked it. Then thinking about it and comparing it to the books in my head, I found that it will be a great transitional episode once the season is complete.  However, this episode really confirms that this show might have been better off released all at once.  

 

Jared Harris is really making Anderson Dawes come alive.  I don't think I thought too much about him in the books beyond how he serviced the plot.  But he's so excellent on screen and that's totally down to Harris.  

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I think I need to rewatch this one, because I will admit my attention wandered a bit. Like Lion above, I wasn't really sure if I actually liked it, but I think the assessment is spot-on: we're transitioning into the second half of the season and a lot more shit is about to hit the fan.

 

The stuff with the miners confused me as well-- it seemed like a very random jump away from the main storylines-- but agree with the comments that it's supposed to highlight tensions between the Belters and the Martians/Earthers.

 

The scenes with Dawes and Miller were really excellent. Dawes can be pretty freaking scary and the cold-blooded "mercy killing" of sister spokes volumes. I knew Miller wouldn't die, but the tension of him being thrown in the airlock and the air starting to escape was nicely done. He stumbled into something way beyond a little lost girl case and got fired for his trouble! Not that a pesky thing like that will keep Miller away from the case going forward, hah.

 

I like that we got a sort of sense of the crew the Rocinante is becoming, ie, they have each others backs such as the situation with Fred Johnson trying to take their ship, and then Naomi, Amos, and Alex basically saying "here's your effing testimony, you can't leave us behind." I want to know more about the chip that Johnson took from Lopez. What's one it? Military specs, intelligence info? I also really liked the bar scenes-- first with Amos and Alex and then with Naomi and Holden. We're starting to crack the shells, just a little bit.

 

Avasarala continues to fight dirty to get what she wants... how does anyone not run far away when she comes looking for them? It's starting to seem a little bit desperate-- she needs to know what's going on to maintain the upper hand, but can't actually get enough info.

 

Only four more episodes to go, and then I can binge watch the whole season from start to finish!

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See, I think this was possibly my favourite episode (or maybe tied with CQB). I love the slow, character based scenes. I much prefer getting to know characters to action scenes, and think this episode gave us some nice little insights into all the main players. Well, except Avasarala, who continues to feel tangential to everything else.

 

I like Alex's tendency to joke about everything, even when he shouldn't. That's a very sympathetic quality, something that so many people do all the time. Amos is more of a mess of contradictions by the episode. He has very childlike qualities, almost a case of arrested development in terms of his emotional dependency on Naomi, but his cold assessment of the bar, the patrons and the prospects of the sex workers was definitely not childlike.

 

I already mentioned how great Naomi is. But unfortunately, they need to give us more time to get to know Holden. His guilt over the Cant and his charm only get him so far with the audience.

 

Seeing Miller turn down the unspoken offer from Octavia reinforced Dawes mocking assertion that he's hung up on a woman he's never met. He began the season by trying to pull her hair until she paid attention to him, and now he just looks put out by her presence.

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First time poster here.

 

I haven't read the books because I don't want to be spoiled. I am loving this show.

 

I am wondering why Tycho Station would be located in The Belt. You would be close to a lot of raw material, but also in constant danger of being bombarded by asteroids. A big inconvenience when you are building the largest ship in history.

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First time poster here.

 

I haven't read the books because I don't want to be spoiled. I am loving this show.

 

I am wondering why Tycho Station would be located in The Belt. You would be close to a lot of raw material, but also in constant danger of being bombarded by asteroids. A big inconvenience when you are building the largest ship in history.

Before Tycho was commissioned to build the Mormon's ship, they typically 'spun up asteroids'.  Tycho is the sort of station that created Ceres.  It's a mobile construction station, so it's right where it needs to be.  I'm not exactly sure where Tycho is placed on the map in the show, but it wouldn't be too difficult for the station to position itself in the right orbit at the right speed so as to avoid asteroids.  Space is big.

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The way Dawes spoke about his sister reminded me of Shin Dong-hyuk (He escaped from a North Korean prison camp) or even Elie Weisel's Night. It shows how cruel hunger and deprivation can make people. Something people of privilege rarely understand it not that desperate people want to do terrible things its that so often they have never known kindness or gentleness.  When you only treat people with cruelty and neglect sooner or later they start to mirror it back. In the Belters case it looks like they might be ready to direct it right back at their oppressors.  Its was also a very effective way to show how desperate the Belters are.

 

I also love Dawes accent its such a weird mix. Which s course is exactly what you would get considering the history of the Belters. Sadly though his character is the only one who made a real impression on me so far. Although the Rocinate crew shows promise they haven't grabbed me yet. Miller is such a type I still haven't seen what makes him unique yet. The actor is a little light on charisma say what you want about Defiance Nolan had a lot of charm even in the pilot. Maybe that's what Miller needs a real partner not just a one dimensional nag. Its hard to care for someone who doesn't seem to care about anyone else.

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It was another good episode. I especially liked the club scene, that gave us a bit more info about Amos upbringing. Loved the banter with Alex too (These two start growing on me, which is nice). Still, I think that the mining crew should have been better introduced.

Another thing, this time about set design. Why does EVERYTHING has to be so dark? You'd think that the lights on a military ship like the Rocinante would be a bit brighter than that? It could be useful to see where you are going. And another thing, we are talking about travel that may take weeks or months, if the crew on the Roci stays the whole time in that blueish semi darkness, they´re all going to end up with a bad case of depression and with serious vitamin deficiencies. Come on, SyFy, a few more light-bulbs are really needed.

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I wasn't clear on why 'Rocinante' was a good name. It apparently means work horse (Amos randomly knew that) but most people know the name as that of Don Quixote's decrepit old steed. But they went out of their way to show how new and well-supplied it was. The opposite of Rocinante. Maybe Silver or Trigger, if you're going to go with a horse. Hi-yo Silver, away! sort of thing.

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Before Tycho was commissioned to build the Mormon's ship, they typically 'spun up asteroids'.  Tycho is the sort of station that created Ceres.  It's a mobile construction station, so it's right where it needs to be.  I'm not exactly sure where Tycho is placed on the map in the show, but it wouldn't be too difficult for the station to position itself in the right orbit at the right speed so as to avoid asteroids.  Space is big.

 

 

A good explanation, Lion.  Thank you. As someone has already said, the laws of physics is a major character.

 

I hope we get to see what life on Mars is like this season or next, and that Mars is as well-realized a place as Ceres.

 

A lot has been written in this forum about the diversity of the casting. From the perspective of the people inhabiting this universe, I wonder how much the categories of black, white, asian, etc even apply. People are more concerned with whether a person is Earthling, Martian, or Belter. Racism still exists, it has just taken on some new categories.

 

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This show's saving grace is that's it's only 10 episodes. I still don't really care about these characters. And again, we had something terrible happen to someone we don't know. Don't these writers know that drama is only really effective if we care?

 

Miller comes across as some creep, I'm not sure if that is the intention or his obsession is supposed to be some sort of salvation. I'm just not sure from what.

 

A bit more from his ex-??? that went past the nagging, so I'm glad.

 

Naomi is annoying. The longer I see her, the more scenes of her looking pensive or cryptic utterances like the one with the guy who took them in.

 

Holden is fine although not terribly engaging either. Amos is interesting although it would REALLY help if we knew what his and Naomi's deal is. But then, apparently, we will keep her as some sort of cipher.

 

I'll finish this season but I can't say it even began to meet any expectations I had. And the new BSG, it is certainly not. Neither from a character, a plot or world building perspective. I'm getting the sense I would need to read the books in order to get a feel for what I'm supposed to get from this but I don't think I should have to.

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I'll finish this season but I can't say it even began to meet any expectations I had. And the new BSG, it is certainly not. Neither from a character, a plot or world building perspective. I'm getting the sense I would need to read the books in order to get a feel for what I'm supposed to get from this but I don't think I should have to.

Same here. The pacing is really odd - the main plot barely moves along but we get plenty little throwaway scenes that make you wonder why there are there and what they're supposed to mean. Like the uncle removing his helmet in space. I found the explanation on another board and it's a neat detail but there's too much of those when you haven't read the books. (Also I still don't know what exactly the crew of the Rocinante did to stop Johnson from taking the ship at the beginning. From the way the scene played out it was something clever and bad-ass.)

 

Since I already got spoilered when I tried to better understand what was going on, I feel somewhat frustrated with the show. You either have to risk getting spoilered or you have make a list to ask the book readers on-line - so yeah, reading the books or simply the Wikipedia summary to know where to focus when watching starts to sound more and more tempting.

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This show feels like there are too many disparate threads and I still don't feel particularly invested in the characters. I'm not sure I'll continue watching in real time. I may binge watch it later to see if it ever got to a freaking point.

 

I'm not sure why exactly, but I've invested a lot more time in this show than I ever normally would. I gave up halfway through the first episode, then tried again and finished it. I later caught up on the first 3 but still didn't understand much of what was going on so I rewatched eps 1-4 before 5. I really want to like it, apparently. There are so many interesting details and I love the future tech and cold war type politics/culture clashes ... but the plot simply isn't going anywhere for me. I shouldn't have to work this hard to figure out what the hell is happening.

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I just caught up with this series and have enjoyed it. Not sure I've quite followed along with everything but the Roci crew has grown on me and I want to know what's up with the Julie Mao stuff.

Miller is obviously losing it a bit, but I'm kind of enjoying it? I like the film noir aspect to his storyline, which I'm assuming was partly inspired by the film, "Laura." I haven't read the books so no idea how it will all be resolved. Is it weird that if we get to see Julie Mao and Miller ever interact I kind of hope she punches him in the face?

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I feel like it's a show with missed opportunities. The world and the plot I suspect are actually intriguing and worthwhile watching, at least for someone like me but I find it hard to follow, characters are bland or cryptic with no pay-off after 6 episodes. I don't mind slow builds but something needs to keep me interested and I just feel like I'm being led by the nose for no good reason. Maybe there will be an awesome season finale where I might have to eat my hat but I doubt it. If they can't get me interested throughout the show, then awesome finales won't help either.

 

I really wanted to like this. I was hoping for Game of Thrones in Space, or BSG with more political intrigue. Instead, I'm really not sure what I'm getting. Secrets, cliche characters and disparate plots that barely hold together, let alone make much internal sense to me. I didn't see how or why Miller got so obsessed with Julie Mao. I can barely remember where the Holden Crew came from. I don't really care about the belters since they are not really main characters. They only seem to provide political commentary but the main characters don't really seem to be involved. For now. I think. There is so much I keep forgetting or am not sure about.

Edited by supposebly
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It's hit and miss with my social group as well.  The problem, the people who say they don't like it claim that it's because things don't make sense, but it turns out they aren't even paying attention because what they think doesn't make sense was discussed in a previous scene or episode.  If watchers are hitting the point where they can't follow along, it probably means it's not their cup of tea.  It's a show that's a bit more intelligently written than lots of other tv.  The writer's aren't spoon feeding the audience, they trust that viewers can make these logical connections.  

 

The way I see it, we are well past the pilot.  After about two or three episodes, people should know if they are going to like the show or not.  If one doesn't like it, it would probably make a ton of sense to, you know, stop watching.  Or at the very least, stop posting in a forum about how much you hate the show.  I get it, sometimes it's entertaining in it's own way to hate watch something, but dayum, it sure would be nice to have one forum that isn't overrun with hate-watchers.  Maybe there should be a dedicated hate watch thread.  

Edited by Lion
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It's hit and miss with my social group as well.  The problem, the people who say they don't like it claim that it's because things don't make sense, but it turns out they aren't even paying attention because what they think doesn't make sense was discussed in a previous scene or episode.  If watchers are hitting the point where they can't follow along, it probably means it's not their cup of tea.  It's a show that's a bit more intelligently written than lots of other tv.  The writer's aren't spoon feeding the audience, they trust that viewers can make these logical connections.  

 

The way I see it, we are well past the pilot.  After about two or three episodes, people should know if they are going to like the show or not.  If one doesn't like it, it would probably make a ton of sense to, you know, stop watching.  Or at the very least, stop posting in a forum about how much you hate the show.  I get it, sometimes it's entertaining in it's own way to hate watch something, but dayum, it sure would be nice to have one forum that isn't overrun with hate-watchers.  Maybe there should be a dedicated hate watch thread.  

 

I'm not sure anyone on here is saying they hate the show. It seems like most of us are struggling to connect with the plot or the characters. I want to like the show but most of the exciting opportunities never seem to be actually manifest in the show yet.

 

I still don't know who the big bad is. I'm not sure if there are 3 or 4 different factions and I still don't have the slightest clue what that asteroid mining segue was all about. I'm guessing it was supposed to show the escalating tensions between Belters and Mars or Earth but it felt like it drained interest in the main plot rather than reinforcing it.

 

It's like they get you all interested in space intrigue and adventures of a rag tag group of survivors and then they cut away to a couple of randoms doing illegal salvage and it's like who are these people and why do I care ? Previous episodes had random flashbacks. It feels like the pacing is off or the editing or something just isn't working. At least not for me but I'll continue watching in the hopes that it either finds it footing or manages to get to some sort of point soon.

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It's a show that's a bit more intelligently written than lots of other tv.  The writer's aren't spoon feeding the audience, they trust that viewers can make these logical connections.

I've seen book readers comment that they watch episodes more than once in order to catch all the details. So if people who are familiar with the main narrative have to do this I don't think it's necessary to imply a lack of intelligence when people not familiar with the books struggle to catch up. Also critique of a show's writing doesn't necessarily equate hate-watching.

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I'm not sure anyone on here is saying they hate the show. It seems like most of us are struggling to connect with the plot or the characters. I want to like the show but most of the exciting opportunities never seem to be actually manifest in the show yet.

 

I still don't know who the big bad is. I'm not sure if there are 3 or 4 different factions and I still don't have the slightest clue what that asteroid mining segue was all about. I'm guessing it was supposed to show the escalating tensions between Belters and Mars or Earth but it felt like it drained interest in the main plot rather than reinforcing it.

 

It's like they get you all interested in space intrigue and adventures of a rag tag group of survivors and then they cut away to a couple of randoms doing illegal salvage and it's like who are these people and why do I care ? Previous episodes had random flashbacks. It feels like the pacing is off or the editing or something just isn't working. At least not for me but I'll continue watching in the hopes that it either finds it footing or manages to get to some sort of point soon.

The big bad hasn't been revealed, though there is plenty of info for viewers to speculate.  The factions are pretty clear: Earth, Mars, Belters.  There might be other operators within these factions.  For example, Anderson Dawes seems pretty high up within the OPA, but a viewer could wonder if he and Fred Johnson are on the same team.  Sort of like how one can wonder if Crisjen and Errinwright are on the same team or how viewers could have easily theorized that Miller and the Star Helix Captain may not have been operating under the same assumptions (and now we see they weren't).  

 

But, I mean, if you aren't interested, I just don't get why watch?

 

 

I've seen book readers comment that they watch episodes more than once in order to catch all the details. So if people who are familiar with the main narrative have to do this I don't think it's necessary to imply a lack of intelligence when people not familiar with the books struggle to catch up. Also critique of a show's writing doesn't necessarily equate hate-watching.

Yeah, I've rewatched, too, and I'm a fan of the book series.  That doesn't mean that I think there is something wrong with the show or that I'm struggling to follow along.  I have the image from the books in my head and I might miss changes they've made in the show.  If I'm rewatching, it's because I like something.

 

I didn't imply a lack of intelligence.  I said this show is intelligently written. Viewers aren't being spoonfed.  This means that one might maybe need to pay attention during watching.  

 

The comments in these past few episodes are slowly building towards the typically hate watching comments.  You don't like the show after 6 episodes, and yet you keep watching and complaining about the same crap over and over.  Eventually it will be not liking the show after 22 episodes and screaming and crying asking yourself why you watch something so terrible.  It's a familiar pattern.  I yearn for the day I can maintain an involvement on a show forum with actual fans, or at least the day hate-watchers or on-the-road-to-hate-watcher make their own dedicated threads.  

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Well I  am really into this show in a  big way now - and I want to read the  books.

 

I almost lost interest for 2 reasons nothing to do with the show really.  1.  There was huge break between the showing of episodes 4 and 5.  I don't expect a Christmas  break for a 10 episode series with a very complicated plot. 2. I was watching season 2 Fargo.  No offense but that show was amazing and every thing paled in comparison for me.

 

Then I watched the Pilot episode of "The Colony."  You want to hate watch a show - this is it.

 

So I watched episodes 5 and 6 and love it.  The special effects are fantastic.  The story line with Holden's crew has been great and interesting.  The cast is diverse.  Having Jared Harris come into Miller's storyline saved that storyline for me (I can't stand the tired trope of the alcoholic detective) I really wanted to  see Miller die when he was thrown into the airlock. We have Jared Harris - do we really need Miller?  NO.

 

And of course we have Chad Coleman from "The Wire" and "The Walking Dead."  Loved his scenes in this episode.  Fantastic how he sussed out how small Holden's crew really was.  I have a feeling his character waited  until the protesters transmitted their story before he blew up their ship.. Because "The Butcher" looked completely guilt ridden.

 

This show is really good and trying so hard.  I can't help  but root for it.  Is it as good as BSG?  I don't know - while I loved BSG that last half season really killed that show for me.

Edited by Macbeth
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The big bad hasn't been revealed, though there is plenty of info for viewers to speculate.  The factions are pretty clear: Earth, Mars, Belters.  There might be other operators within these factions.  For example, Anderson Dawes seems pretty high up within the OPA, but a viewer could wonder if he and Fred Johnson are on the same team.  Sort of like how one can wonder if Crisjen and Errinwright are on the same team or how viewers could have easily theorized that Miller and the Star Helix Captain may not have been operating under the same assumptions (and now we see they weren't).  

 

But, I mean, if you aren't interested, I just don't get why watch?

 

I've already said I'm interested in the rag tag group of survivors and who the big bad is and what they're up to. The problem is I often feel like the tension is being undercut by weird undertones like the detectives obsession with Julie for whatever reason or random flashbacks to some other tertiary characters backstory or weird side stories that seem to have no point.

 

I'm not saying the show is bad but so far it's not gelling for me yet. I'm hoping at the end of the season it'll all lead somewhere interesting and I'll be able to binge watch the entire season to enjoy all the little nuances of the story that I missed the first time. Like I do with Firefly or Farscape. 

 

At the moment I'm in a holding pattern hoping that this show hits it mark soon. It has me interested in where it's going .. but I don't love it yet. It's an interesting premise, intergalactic warfare with humans with various motivations but the execution so far has me raising my eyebrows and going what is the point of this scene exactly.

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Well, I'm not hate-watching. I love this show. I watched the first episode and loved it enough to buy first book. I'm on the fourth book now. I stay up to watch the episodes live. I've also purchased the series on Amazon so that I can rewatch the episodes. But I can totally see what people are saying about not feeling connected to the characters and finding it difficult to keep the threads of the plot together. I definitely feel like I fill in the blanks on the show with book knowledge. Sometimes, it almost feels like the show is a series of vignettes with limited connective tissue. I enjoy those vignettes, but then again, I've already seen the big picture and know how each piece fits together. And since I understand the impact, it can have more emotional resonance for me, but even I was like, "why are we spending so much time with uncle what's his name?" It was weird. I feel like we either needed to have spent more time with him, like maybe seeing him taking in his water-thieving nephew and interacting with his sister's family or less time, like just seeing a snippet of agents treating a belter badly that we see through another POV character's eyes if they just wanted to show escalating tension. Even though we've seen the nephew before, he's not a POV character which diminished the impact of the scenes. I bet plenty of people didn't even realize he was the same kid. And a cop tells him to stop stealing and he just....does? I kinda feel like I needed more there....or less. Either would have been fine, really. 

 

I felt the same way about the Anderson Station flashbacks too. It's odd how much time we spend on background for non-main characters, when we still don't know that much about the crew on the Rocinante. I was glad to get the bar scene with Alex and Amos and the lounge scene with Holden and Naomi, because those are the characters that I want to spend time with and I want to see them spend time with and get to know eachother. I think one of the reasons that many might not feel emotionally connected to the characters as much as they would like is because so few of them are emotionally connected to eachother. Naomi and Amos and Miller and his wife are the only main characters that seem to have a strong history on the show. Other than those, we get scenes of major characters at the beginning of relationships or scenes with one main character and a one-off guest star. Everyone feels kinda isolated.

 

The world-building is still amazing though and I think that's what would keep me coming back even without the book knowledge. Even though my love for the show isn't without complaint, I'm still a huge fan and it seems to me that most people who have shared their frustrations here really want and are trying very hard to love it too. I don't see the point of trying to chase those people away.

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There's critiquing and there's 'critiquing'.  It's a complete difference in tone.  There is a lot of criticism that has been offered with this particular episode.  Hell, even I had somewhat negative commentary to make about the episode.  But I and others also haven't spent five threads past the pilot complaining how awful the show is or how I can't connect or how I don't like any of the characters.  

 

But whatever.  It's obvious I'm in the extreme minority in wanting a space for actual fans having a dedicated space to discuss something.  It's like internet rules, we can't ever have nice things.  

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This isn't a fan-site. I don't think the main threads should be restricted to those who only have positive opinions of the show. I'd be fine with a complaints thread for "hate-watchers" so they don't derail main threads, but I don't see how that's an issue yet. (As a veteran of the Revolution forum, I don't see how any of this thread qualifies as hate-watching.) I'd also be in favor of a positive-only thread for people who don't want to hear any criticism, so there can be a non-restricted, active discussion about the good and bad of the show in the episode threads. This forum gets barely any activity as it is though, so I'm not sure those would get enough interest to be worthwhile. 

 

If there was more interest, I'd love to see a Q&A, Science or just General Nitpicks, and even a Politics of the Expanse type threads. I wish there was more active discussion here since the world and its details and dynamics are so fascinating.

 

 

....

 

I also love Dawes accent its such a weird mix. Which s course is exactly what you would get considering the history of the Belters. Sadly though his character is the only one who made a real impression on me so far. Although the Rocinate crew shows promise they haven't grabbed me yet. Miller is such a type I still haven't seen what makes him unique yet. The actor is a little light on charisma say what you want about Defiance Nolan had a lot of charm even in the pilot. Maybe that's what Miller needs a real partner not just a one dimensional nag. Its hard to care for someone who doesn't seem to care about anyone else.

Details like Dawes' hybrid accent and the Belters' gestures are part of what makes me love the world-building of The Expanse so much. I actually really like what Thomas Jane is doing with Miller, but I do agree that he's a hard character to get into. Maybe instead of seeing the miners, we could have used that time to flesh out Octavia and/or Havelock and their relationship with Miller.

 

 

...

A lot has been written in this forum about the diversity of the casting. From the perspective of the people inhabiting this universe, I wonder how much the categories of black, white, asian, etc even apply. People are more concerned with whether a person is Earthling, Martian, or Belter. Racism still exists, it has just taken on some new categories.

That's exactly what it seems like. I find the parallels to be fascinating and I'm glad that they've kept the characters diverse, because I think it emphasizes the point seeing a so many different people bonded together in their prejudice over these new differences.

 

Same here. The pacing is really odd - the main plot barely moves along but we get plenty little throwaway scenes that make you wonder why there are there and what they're supposed to mean. Like the uncle removing his helmet in space. I found the explanation on another board and it's a neat detail but there's too much of those when you haven't read the books. (Also I still don't know what exactly the crew of the Rocinante did to stop Johnson from taking the ship at the beginning. From the way the scene played out it was something clever and bad-ass.)

...

 

I don't think there was that much to it. From what I could tell, Johnson had sent people to either board or disable the ship by sneaking on the outside thinking that they wouldn't suspect it with his open welcome. I don't think Johnson has a high opinion of Holden's intelligence. Either Johnson is wrong and he left instructions to watch out for it or Naomi is just that on the ball or both. 

 

 

...Since I already got spoilered when I tried to better understand what was going on, I feel somewhat frustrated with the show. You either have to risk getting spoilered or you have make a list to ask the book readers on-line - so yeah, reading the books or simply the Wikipedia summary to know where to focus when watching starts to sound more and more tempting.

Maybe we should have a Q&A thread.

 

 

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I think one of the reasons that many might not feel emotionally connected to the characters as much as they would like is because so few of them are emotionally connected to eachother. 

I just finished Leviathan Wakes and was a little surprised at how different it plays in the book.  There's a comradery between that crew of the Rocinante in the book that the show hasn't captured.  I'm not sure if it's the writing or the actors.  

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There's critiquing and there's 'critiquing'.  It's a complete difference in tone.  There is a lot of criticism that has been offered with this particular episode.  Hell, even I had somewhat negative commentary to make about the episode.  But I and others also haven't spent five threads past the pilot complaining how awful the show is or how I can't connect or how I don't like any of the characters.  

 

But whatever.  It's obvious I'm in the extreme minority in wanting a space for actual fans having a dedicated space to discuss something.  It's like internet rules, we can't ever have nice things.  

I consider myself a fan of the show and I don't want to be restricted from commenting just because I don't like some things about the show. The show has problems, big or small depending on the person watching, and as they are part of the show they are worthy of discussion. Prompting discussion is the nicest thing a show can do, and The Expanse does that for all of us here.

 

For example, my problem right now is the characters I do care about I really, really care about but the ones I don't I really, really don't. It makes for an incredibly uneven viewing experience but I know I need to keep watching so I can understand everything. I've already stated in another thread, I do not like Miller's story but I know it's part of the big picture.

 

Also, the sound is terrible. Genuinely awful. I had to turn on the closed captioning more than once. Then again, I'm one of the few that complains about Game of Thrones' mixing as well, so maybe I'm going deaf. I hope they get that fixed for the DVD set.

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Again, this isn't about wanting to prevent critique of a show.  It's about a specific type of consistent criticism that always always turns into full blown hate watch posting.  You remarking on not liking Miller's part of the story and providing explanation for problems you see with it in the context of the rest of the story or various critical discussion of the uncle/nephew miners isn't the same as posters coming in week after week after week saying everything sucks, all the characters suck, it's all so sucky, etc.  Another poster mentioned the vile pit of nasty in Revolution forums.  If one goes back to read threads on TWOP or other forums of the first few episodes, you'll see it started out much the same as it's starting here with those posters who seemingly politely didn't like anything about Revolution after a handful of episodes but couldn't seem to stop wasting their time watching it and then go on to disrupt discussion of the show for other viewers*. 

 

Look, I think any reasonable discussion of something will include both the good and the bad.  I certainly don't require only positive happy rainbow unicorns to discuss the show, and if I did, I'd probably make a thread about it.  It's not like I think I'm so above hate watching and then talking about my hate watching, but I've definitely been decent enough to do so in appropriate spaces. 

 

*Yes, I totally see the irony of me calling out thread disrupters with my own thread disruption.

 

And just to comment again on the episode, I mentioned upthread about the issues with pacing.  In rewatching recently with a friend, it's left me so curious if it was written with the hope that it would be distributed to a streaming service where it could have been released all at once.  I think all of the pacing works so much better when binged, or at least watched without a week or weeks between episodes.  There are just so many intricate details, seemingly throwaway lines of dialogue that answers questions in other episodes, etc that really might have benefited from the audience having it all available at once.  

Edited by Lion
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...

Also, the sound is terrible. Genuinely awful. I had to turn on the closed captioning more than once. Then again, I'm one of the few that complains about Game of Thrones' mixing as well, so maybe I'm going deaf. I hope they get that fixed for the DVD set.

It's not just you. I feel like so much of the dialogue is spoken in "hushed tones" and the background noises obscure it a lot. 

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And just to comment again on the episode, I mentioned upthread about the issues with pacing.  In rewatching recently with a friend, it's left me so curious if it was written with the hope that it would be distributed to a streaming service where it could have been released all at once.  I think all of the pacing works so much better when binged, or at least watched without a week or weeks between episodes.  There are just so many intricate details, seemingly throwaway lines of dialogue that answers questions in other episodes, etc that really might have benefited from the audience having it all available at once.  

I feel the same. I had the fortune to watch the first five episodes all at once on demand and it really does help with the pacing, kind of smooths the whole show out so one thread neatly flows into the next.

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I haven't read the books yet; my brother's been raving about them for years and I've been meaning to, truly, I've just had other series to finish first etc.. But after this season is over, I'll definitely read them: I've had a really hard time not reading them during the Christmas break, because I want to know everything now ;) But I didn't, because I've had some experience from Game of Thrones regarding reader expectations, and I want to experience at least this first season as the show runners wanted me to.

 

Because I love this show. I love the fact that it's weird and difficult, that I'll have to watch several times to get the nuances. Obviously I like some characters more than others, because I relate to some more than others, but I'm curious about all of them. I'm curious about the politics of space; I'm curious about the characters' relation to each other: past, present, future. I want to know more about side characters like the belter prostitute and the OPA speaker. For me, this show works. Maybe it's because I love a good mystery and good mysteries seldom give you more than a slow trinkle of information.

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If watchers are hitting the point where they can't follow along, it probably means it's not their cup of tea.  It's a show that's a bit more intelligently written than lots of other tv.  The writer's aren't spoon feeding the audience, they trust that viewers can make these logical connections.

 

I don't see that the show is intelligently written. I think there's a good plot in here, and I don't have any problem at all about waiting to the end to reveal who the big bad is, especially if it ends up being a good reveal. I don't have enough free time to hate watch TV, if there's nothing good about it, I will stop watching. I really want to like this show, for one thing because I thought CQB was a genuinely great episode of television. The only episodes I hated were the first two. If there's relevant plot information in dialogue in those episodes, I certainly missed it, because I couldn't tell any of the white men in identical space uniforms apart at that point. For people who haven't read the book, it's not easy to figure out who people are and what their motivations are. T I think this show could have benefited from a slightly longer run - then we could have had more time to develop characters at the beginning, before the plot kicked in. It was a huge and challenging task to develop such a big, sprawling story for television, and I give them props for trying. But for a non-book-reader, they didn't do a good enough job establishing characters and situations from the beginning to draw people in.

 

Take the space miners in this episode.

Spoiler

The incident doesn't impact any of the main characters until episode 7 - that's a structural problem. It might not be noticeable when binge-watching, but week to week it's annoying.

Then aesthetically, the show's too dark and close to monochrome, and the sound isn't great and it's hard for me to follow the dialogue without subtitles - and judging from comments above I'm not the only one with that problem.

 

The more time Miller spends with the super hot cop who rescued him, the more I know him as a character. Possibly they should have been paired off from the beginning, and Rookie Cop from Earth written out of the story, since as far as I can tell, that guy was just a narrative dead end. Was he supposed to be an audience stand-in to explain the world to? It didn't work. 

 

I shouldn't still be wondering who the hell Holden is by episode 6. I should be wondering what he's going to do next, how he's going to get out of this one, etc. But not who the character is. Having him paired up initially with a character who got killed, another mistake. His relationship with Naomi is more interesting, the pilot should have had time establishing that dynamic.

 

I don't know, there are really promising elements here, and I like the slow burn of the mystery. At this point I'm just dying to meet Julie Mao. But I'd characterize this as "uneven, with a few really good episodes."

 

People sold this ahead of time as "Game of Thrones in Space." Which, nothing is GOT, that's part of why I love it so much. But one thing GOT got right as an adaptation was pruning and rearranging some storylines to give us more satisfying characters. I don't know how much the show resembles the books because I haven't read them, but is it possible the story wasn't changed enough in the adaptation? Could it be told with fewer, stronger characters? Could interest groups and agendas be better personified? In adapting GOT, the House of Black and White becomes "Jaqen H'gar" and the Iron Bank becomes "Tycho Nestoris" and the conspiracy in Quarth becomes "Xaro Xhoan Daxos." Things get personified. 

 

I wish the miners were someone we'd seen earlier. I wish we had a Martian point of view character. I wish we'd met Julie Mao's parents. There's a lot of plot here, and it's a genuinely interesting mystery. I just wish there were were better written characters. That's why it's so great to see Chad Coleman show up. That guy's up to something, and I'm not just curious about what, I'm curious about why.

Edited by saoirse · Reason: Added spoiler tag
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1. I wish the miners were someone we'd seen earlier. 2. I wish we had a Martian point of view character. 3. I wish we'd met Julie Mao's parents. There's a lot of plot here, and it's a genuinely interesting mystery. I just wish there were were better written characters. 4. That's why it's so great to see Chad Coleman show up. That guy's up to something, and I'm not just curious about what, I'm curious about why.

1. We met half the miner crew earlier.  You were even reminded in the recap.  

 

2. We've had plenty of Martian characters showing us the Martian POV.  We aren't on Mars, of course, not for this season, maybe in the future.  Right now, aside from general curiosity about what inhabited Mars looks like, it would simply be redundant.  Three sides repeating they don't know what's going on.  Once Avasarala discovered that Mars is as clueless as Earth, Earth becomes the stand in for the Mars POV.   They are both the same right now, at odds against the belt but neither one having started shooting at ships.  

 

3. So you want fewer characters in one paragraph, and then the next saying you actually want more.  Makes perfect sense.  lol

 

4. Is it the actor you are excited to see show up or the character?  Yeah, he's up to something.  It's one of the things that's not even a mystery as they spelled it out pretty explicitly already.  He wants to legitimize the OPA and get a seat at the table, "The Table" being with Earth and Mars.  It's pretty well implied that his part in the destruction of Anderson Station led to his becoming part of the Belt.  

 

I am so curious how bad the sound must have been in some regions.  I've heard lots of complaints about it, but damn, it must have been completely unintelligible with some providers.  

Edited by Lion
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Also, the sound is terrible. Genuinely awful. I had to turn on the closed captioning more than once. Then again, I'm one of the few that complains about Game of Thrones' mixing as well, so maybe I'm going deaf. I hope they get that fixed for the DVD set.

 

Definitely not just you. The sound mix on this show is AWFUL. That's not a minor complaint, either. I think it also effects how many audience members react to the show - how can I connect with these people if I'm constantly struggling to hear what they're saying? Seriously, whoever is in charge of the audio should be ashamed of themselves. And hopefully fired before season 2 starts filming.

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Anderson Dawes is a serious sonofabitch, isn't he? Is he the Malcolm X to Fred Johnson's Martin Luther King?

That is an excellent comparison in terms of goals and tactics for those two OPA men.

The scene with Amos and Alex in the bar was interesting. Was Amos saying that he'd been a prostitute in the past, or just that he'd spent time around them?

We learn about Amos' backstory in a short story called The Churn, which was released between the second and third book I believe. It is all about how he left Earth to end up in space. Prior to that he was just a tough guy enigma, and I like how the show is incorporating some of these things in early on. The Butcher of Anderson Station is a similar flashback short story where we learn how/why Johnson got that name, and we already saw that in the show.

Amos' mother was a prostitute and he was raised by another.

Edited by Dougal · Reason: Tagged too-detailed book discussion.

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Just finished this episode and I agree that

  • The sound is awful
  • It would be good if we got a little more about the main characters in order to connect with them better
  • The miners were not very interesting (I might have missed something though. What was the nephew apologizing for? Someone upthread mentioned him steeling water. When was that?)

    Overall I really like this show but I think the bad sound is making me miss things. I need to find some way to watch it with subtitles (SyFy take my money please).

     
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I have been binging this show on Amazon Prime and though I do get the complaint about the sound, that's what closed captions are for. 

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And so the Roci is born. Liked this episode as the follow-up to CQB.

This show hits so different once you've read the source material. I've ended up loving the show and books for how they complement each other.

It's nice to watch this episode and remember a time when I sorta liked Diogo.

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