S01.E01: Jill and Jessa Counting On: A New Chapter

[sometimesy]

From what I'm reading, there is a lot of Josh references in this special. Everything else was meh. The hook is Anna for the future specials. Their wedding episodes were long and boring. The house doesn't have 19 little children lined up to go to a museum. The show was over. The weddings couldn't have kept it going because there are better wedding shows.  Josh has actually kept them in the headlines and they just pooped on him in a public way. Sorry Josh, we have limited forgiveness.. see ya! Don't they realize Josh probably kept them 'alive'?  I would rather watch 'Josh leaves the compound and exposes Gothardism' Get the Scientology documentary people on this.

Edited December 15, 2015 by sometimesy

[Aja]

If I were Josh, that public flogging would have eroded my loyalty significantly. But then, I'm a good deal smarter than Josh.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Aja

[MargeGunderson]

Some of the tears may have been from sheer embarrassment, too, at having to speak of sexual transgressions on camera. These are very sheltered kids. I dunno. They must be so sick of it all. And Jana seems to have been thinking a lot about trust. That has to be painful on its own.

They didn't have to speak to any of it on camera, it's their choice to be on TV. They can walk away from the media at any time - no show, no interviews, no magazine articles. If they did, eventually they would fade - remember Paris Hilton? I doubt there are any paparazzi hanging around NW Arkansas just waiting pounce on an unsuspecting Duggar. They've chosen to remain in the public arena, likely for the money and the "fame". I don't see how that is substantively different from any other reality show participant.

 

ETA: My ire is not directed at you, TabbyGirl, it's all at the Duggars. If they want all the negative comments and stories to go away, maybe they just ought to stop talking.

Edited December 15, 2015 by MargeGunderson

[hathorlive]

 

IMO, it's odd that they threw Josh under the bus for adultery when child molestation is clearly the more egregious sin. I mean, do they seriously think Josh is the first Fundie guy to look at porn and get caught with his pants down around his ankles?

I can understand being mad at their brother and feeling horribly for their sister-in-law, but these girls were practically having nervous breakdowns last night. Their reactions were extreme, especially considering these interviews were taped months after the second scandal broke.

 

 

This is it in a nut shell.  The entire "We're so ashamed and upset that Josh cheated on his wife" is a talking point created by JimBoob and his handlers to divert attention away from the fact that this is the house that molestation built.  Think about it, everyone can identify with a cheater.  The wife who was cheated on, the children who had a parent cheat on the other parent.  It's relatable. It's NORMAL.  Very few people can identify with or work up any empathy for a child molester or for the family widely perceived as covering up for said child molester.   If the entire show rotates around Josh the cheater, then it changes the discussion.  Most every post I've seen is about Josh and poor Anna and i wouldn't stay with a cheater.  To some point, they are changing the discussion and making the family  seem better.

 

That's why we are all confused about why they are having near break downs over Josh the cheater.  It's the talking point of the month.  And it deflects from the real issue which is Josh the molester in the religion/cult that molestation thrives in. 

 

I am firmly convinced that Jana stays and doesn't court so she can protect all those little girls from being molested.  Just my take on it.  And she's also limiting her fertile years.

 

I have NO tolerance of Jill and Jessa being used to deflect from their brother's crime.  and if they truly wanted to heal they sure as hell wouldn't be doing with a camera in front of them.

 

I just preference every conversation that involves this family as The Duggars, the molesting family. 

[Aja]

This is it in a nut shell.  The entire "We're so ashamed and upset that Josh cheated on his wife" is a talking point created by JimBoob and his handlers to divert attention away from the fact that this is the house that molestation built.  Think about it, everyone can identify with a cheater.  The wife who was cheated on, the children who had a parent cheat on the other parent.  It's relatable. It's NORMAL.  Very few people can identify with or work up any empathy for a child molester or for the family widely perceived as covering up for said child molester.   If the entire show rotates around Josh the cheater, then it changes the discussion.  Most every post I've seen is about Josh and poor Anna and i wouldn't stay with a cheater.  To some point, they are changing the discussion and making the family  seem better.

 

Hammer, meet head of nail. Bravo!

[MargeGunderson]

Right? They might not have explicitly said that they were perfect, but actions speak louder than words anyway. It's like smug self-satisfaction dripped from every facet of their show.

 

Also, they specifically highlighted how all of their rules about modesty, interacting with the opposite sex, and courting (not dating!) were so that no one fell prey to the evils of internet porn and defrauding knees. Whoops! That didn't work so well. It's not about being perfect, it's that they held themselves and their way of life as the solution to all of these problems, and in reality they already knew that it wasn't entirely true.

[kokapetl]

They didn't have to speak to any of it on camera, it's their choice to be on TV. They can walk away from the media at any time - no show, no interviews, no magazine articles. If they did, eventually they would fade - remember Paris Hilton? I doubt there are any paparazzi hanging around NW Arkansas just waiting pounce on an unsuspecting Duggar. They've chosen to remain in the public arena, likely for the money and the "fame". I don't see how that is substantively different from any other reality show participant.

ETA: My ire is not directed at you, TabbyGirl, it's all at the Duggars. If they want all the negative comments and stories to go away, maybe they just ought to stop talking.

Paris Hilton didn't exactly go away without a fight.

[MargeGunderson]

Paris Hilton didn't exactly go away without a fight.

 

True - and speaks to my point. Paris wanted to stay in the limelight but eventually faded away despite her best efforts. Imagine how fast that could happen for the Duggars if they wanted to stop being in the media. But they don't, they just want to control the story. The media is terrible when it's not on their side, and great when it presents them in a good light. In reality, it doesn't work like that.

Edited December 15, 2015 by MargeGunderson

[graefin]

I thought it was more playful than troubling. Kind of telling that Jana hadn't seen the photo before and was probably never invited to visit Jessa when the cameras weren't around. Jinger also seemed as though she felt she only got an invite to go shopping because Jessa needed footage.

There's no need to visit when Jessa spends all her time at TTH.

[MonicaM]

If I were Josh, that public flogging would have eroded my loyalty significantly. But then, I'm a good deal smarter than Josh.

If these were "normal" people, I'd agree with this.  However, since the end game is to stay on television and keep the money coming in, it wouldn't surprise me if they discussed the need for the flogging with Josh and he agreed with the plan.  The alternative would be for Josh and the rest to get regular jobs, and when all you are qualified to do is flip burgers, that's not real appealing.  

 

Aside from the initial program many years ago, I never watched the Duggars.  However, Sunday night curiosity got the best of me and I decided to turn on the program to entertain me while I cleaned up the kitchen.  It was so boring I couldn't keep it on the channel for more than ten minutes.  Watching paint dry would have been more interesting and much less annoying to my ears.  Hard to believe these people pretty much grew up in front of the cameras!!!

[kokapetl]

I just checked for cable ratings - don't know if this source is accurate, but if it is -- a whole lotta people watched that show. SHIT!

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-sunday-cable-originals-network-update-12-13-2015.html

A surprising number of posters here almost never watched the show, I think a lot of the most vocal Facebook opponents of the show returning, and Facebook supporters of the boycott, didn't watch the show and weren't the audience before or after, hence why the ratings didn't bomb. The ratios of vocal objectors to viewers was absurdly higher at FreeJinger.org. The Duggar's were niche programming for a niche audience and remain niche programming for a niche audience.

On TLC Australia I saw ads for Big W and Bunnings, each are subsidiaries of the duopoly retail companies Woolworths and Wesfarmers, I saw an ad by one of the big 5 major Auatralian banks, I saw ads for Ford Australia, General Motors Australia, Oral-B, Subway, McDonald's, Philips, this horrifying Scholl foot grinder thing, Nikon cameras, Brut antiperspirant. I actually saw a notable lack of the bread and butter of Australian Pay-TV advertising, the funeral insurance ads, life insurance ads, and the payday lending loan shark ads. And diet milkshakes.

I think people who object to this show should unsubscribe from TLC.

There's no need to visit when Jessa spends all her time at TTH.

I doubt she visits during working hours, just in the evenings. Edited December 15, 2015 by Kokapetl

[flyingdi]

I think we have to remember that biblically adultery is a major sin. People were sentenced to death for it. The Duggars do say they try to live biblically. Mostly Old Testament. This may account for their perceived overreactions concerning their brother's behavior. Adultery is also one of the few things the Bible approves of divorce for.

[Aja]

I think people who object to this show should unsubscribe from TLC.

 

I've never had cable so I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think you can just unsubscribe from one channel. It seems like it's either all or Netflix & Hulu.  [insert monopoly rant--trust me, it's angry and good.]

[graefin]

I doubt she visits during working hours, just in the evenings.

If anything, I'd expect the reverse: she's got nothing to do at her own house while Ben is "working," so she goes over to hang out with her family. Besides, this way she can be in closer physical proximity to Ben while he "works," which I'd guess (based on the example we've seen from Jill) is important to her.

[Lemur]

I think we have to remember that biblically adultery is a major sin. People were sentenced to death for it. The Duggars do say they try to live biblically. Mostly Old Testament. This may account for their perceived overreactions concerning their brother's behavior. Adultery is also one of the few things the Bible approves of divorce for.

 

Technically, and most Christian theology will you tell you, adultery is thoughts and deeds of sexual nature outside of the bonds of marriage.  So in reality, the sins are one and the same.  That is, unless you believe in an extremist patriarchal theology, which are notorious for normalizing child molestation.  

 

I think people who object to this show should unsubscribe from TLC.

 

Unless it's a premium channel or suite of channels, you cannot just unsubscribe from one basic cable channel in the US.  We (unfortunately) do not have ala carte cable programming.  If you buy someone's basic package, you're stuck with everything on it, whether you ever intend to watch it or not.  Thus while I'm stuck with 84 ESPN channels, a network I haven't watched since roughly 2004.

[NikSac]

I've never had cable so I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think you can just unsubscribe from one channel. It seems like it's either all or Netflix & Hulu.  [insert monopoly rant--trust me, it's angry and good.]

 

This is correct. I have cable and while there are different packages you can subscribe to, you can't pick individual channels (at least not with any provider I've ever had).  I think TLC is on pretty much all of our cable company's packages except for the super basic one that is only local channels.

[Tabbygirl521]

They didn't have to speak to any of it on camera, it's their choice to be on TV. They can walk away from the media at any time - no show, no interviews, no magazine articles. If they did, eventually they would fade - remember Paris Hilton? I doubt there are any paparazzi hanging around NW Arkansas just waiting pounce on an unsuspecting Duggar. They've chosen to remain in the public arena, likely for the money and the "fame". I don't see how that is substantively different from any other reality show participant.

ETA: My ire is not directed at you, TabbyGirl, it's all at the Duggars. If they want all the negative comments and stories to go away, maybe they just ought to stop talking.

I understand, Marge. And I agree that they could walk away, but in practical terms I bet it would be so intensely awful for the kids if they tried to refuse. I am sure they have been Prayer Closeted into compliance.

[Loves2Dance]

I agree with what you're saying in part. But since they resolved the first issue largely by sweeping it under the rug, while they're certainly not doing that with this one, I still think there's a difference in the way they're treating them ....

 

I just think that the molestation is such a touchy off-the-wall issue -- for anyone -- that people tend to go much more into denial about it than anyone does about adultery, which just isn't as insane a problem.

I think age is a huge factor between scandals. While it's seem a little more than common sense to be alarming at a 14/15 touching young children, common sense in Duggar land isn't always there---so to them, he was a child who was making a foolish decision and they did, essentially what they were told to do, to make it all better.

 

Now Josh is a late 20's adult with a wife and four children and the concept of "He's a foolish child," is gone. I think had Josh been an adult the first scandal, it might have ended a tab bid differently. Still swept under the rug, but likely excommunicated in some fashion. 

[kokapetl]

If you canceled your cable to send a message to TLC you would be sending a very strong message to TLC and your cable company, but it's up to you.

I understood subscription television to be a broad offering of channels for niche audiences. Something for everyone. The programs aren't disseminated like broadcast television, they're invited in, like vampires.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Kokapetl

[BitterApple]

I think the Duggar kids are a lot like the Jenner girls. They've grown up on tv and honestly don't know any different. For them, having a production crew in their faces at all times is normal. I honestly don't think this family knew what to do with themselves when the show was cancelled. For all their talks about closeness, the older girls could barely keep a conversation going. I don't think Jill and Jessa have spent much time with their sisters since getting married. Jessa claiming to meet up with Jinger weekly was probably an exaggeration.

[kokapetl]

I hope the first special was similar to how I eat my vegetables first, get the bad stuff over with first.

[STFUFrank]

What I didn't understand while watching is what does Jessa do all day that she and Jinger no longer have time to spend together? Is selfie taking THAT time consuming?

[hathorlive]

I think Jessa feels like she's completed the checklist of life.  Stayed pure, got married, pushed out a baby.  Now she gets to be elevated to a Michelle like level where she drops in on her family, dumps her baby on Jana and sits around and drinks starbucks with mom.  I'd be shocked if she doesn't bring her laundry and let Grandmother do it.  Because, she's the busy lady of her own household.

 

I bet Jana and Jinger are not thrilled with the other two at all.

[kokapetl]

Daughters who show up at the TTH routinely would probably be given chores to do.

[jacksgirl]

New to the Duggar fun, started getting involved when Josh's molestation scandal hit, sad I missed the snark all these years. My goodness, Jessa and Jill are boring. Jessa is pretty high on her attractiveness, isn't she? She was primping and preening while curling her hair. I actually find Jana very pretty. She has a serenity about her, have read enough to know she is meek. Quick question on the houses. Dereck and Jill live in the nice, newer one, was that Josh and Anna's ever? And Jessa and Bin live in grandma's old place which Anna and Smuggar lived in originally after marriage? A little back history please. I ff'ed through most of it. Agree that the marital betrayal shock is a ruse to bait and switch from the molestation. Pathetic family. Shame on Boob and MeChelle. Shame on TLC.

[Churchhoney]

I don't think JD spoke that well. If he were 15, well spoken. At 25, he sounded like a not so bright grown man or at least one stuck in limbo. What 25 year old man feels the need to tell his older brother that he can't be his role model anymore?

 

 

 

From the stuff I gather they said on this show, seems to me as if JB and M must have really drummed that "Josh is the oldest son and thus the unquestioned leader of this family" thing hard into all the kids.

 

Not only do you have somebody JD's age talking about his slightly older brothers as an apparently lifelong role model, but unless this was misreported by somebody, Joy talked about Josh being her role model, too? I have a very hard time seeing a kid choosing her molester as her role model without strenuous coaching on the part of some insane parents, especially when she had seven other older siblings to choose from. Did Joy actually say this? Because I'm hoping she didn't and that somebody just misheard, really.

 

Back when Izzy was born (or in the offing -- can't remember), Derick made some sort of big pronouncement about how great it was that they were having a boy because he was going to be the leader of the family, yadda yadda. .... And with all this "role model" stuff going on about Josh, I'm thinking now that he must have gotten that straight from Jill and that it was a very overt Duggar family principle heavily ingrained in all the kids......I find that a little odd anyway, given the sheer size of that family. Couldn't some of the other older kids also function as role models? Does everybody have to have the same one? -- and I guess the answer is "yes" when that one is the golden Josh. And it's also troubling, of course, since they seem clearly to have been drumming this into the kids for years after the whole molestation thing happened.....Sure would go a way to explain both Josh's (to me) highly offensive arrogance (or at least the appearance of it) as a teenager and the level of pressure that was on him based on his position in the family, though.

[Wellfleet]

I finally watched it all. 2 trips to the same freakin store to buy baby clothes? Did Scott Enlow feel that he didn't have enough repetitive footage already?

 

No kidding. Apparently TLC was not even smart enough to bring in a new - and competent - production team for these new specials. I'm not trained in journalism or TV production in any way, but having watched the Duggars for 10 years, I feel like I've taken a class in What Not to Do. I bet I - or any of us here - could plan and put together a more cohesive, articulate and interesting program than the people they have doing it now. Truly pathetic.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[BitterApple]

Jacksgirl, welcome to the insanity. This is a really fun group, you'll like it here.

Quick summary of the house: the property belongs to Grandma Duggar. Josh lived there with his family until he moved to DC. The house was then renovated and made available to Jessa after her wedding to Bin. They allegedly pay rent, but everyone gives a major side-eye to that claim. Josh bought another property and sold it to a trust to protect it from being seized in a civil suit.

[kokapetl]

No kidding. Apparently TLC was not even smart enough to bring in a new - and competent - production team for these new specials. I'm not trained in journalism or TV production in any way, but having watched the Duggars for 10 years, I feel like I've taken a class in What Not to Do. I bet I - or any of us here - could plan and put together a more cohesive, articulate and interesting program than the people they have doing it now. Truly pathetic.

The requisite weepy interviews could've been over and done with in under 30 minutes, and we should've had 60 minutes of something entertaining, like howlers and lost girls dirtying up that white chair like we know they did. Sierra could've planned that going away party, she would've done it for free.

The music was really strange. There wasn't any most of the time, we had simple sad chords occasionally, but right in the middle of the show we suddenly got a full on banjo hoedown when the Dillards showed up to Doppler Jill, and zany music with "boing" sounds during the cocoa scene.

[Wellfleet]

From the stuff I gather they said on this show, seems to me as if JB and M must have really drummed that "Josh is the oldest son and thus the unquestioned leader of this family" thing hard into all the kids.

 

Not only do you have somebody JD's age talking about his slightly older brothers as an apparently lifelong role model, but unless this was misreported by somebody, Joy talked about Josh being her role model, too? I have a very hard time seeing a kid choosing her molester as her role model without strenuous coaching on the part of some insane parents, especially when she had seven other older siblings to choose from. Did Joy actually say this? Because I'm hoping she didn't and that somebody just misheard, really.

 

Back when Izzy was born (or in the offing -- can't remember), Derick made some sort of big pronouncement about how great it was that they were having a boy because he was going to be the leader of the family, yadda yadda. .... And with all this "role model" stuff going on about Josh, I'm thinking now that he must have gotten that straight from Jill and that it was a very overt Duggar family principle heavily ingrained in all the kids......I find that a little odd anyway, given the sheer size of that family. Couldn't some of the other older kids also function as role models? Does everybody have to have the same one? -- and I guess the answer is "yes" when that one is the golden Josh. And it's also troubling, of course, since they seem clearly to have been drumming this into the kids for years after the whole molestation thing happened.....Sure would go a way to explain both Josh's (to me) highly offensive arrogance (or at least the appearance of it) as a teenager and the level of pressure that was on him based on his position in the family, though.

 

Excellent post. If Boob and Me-chelle have been pounding into Josh that he is superior and the leader of the kids since Day One, then the massive amounts of entitlement, smugness and attitude he's displayed over the years make complete sense as well. As do the feelings his siblings are expressing now - since his fall from grace. It must have started some questioning with some of them too, although we'll probably never hear it from them. But if Momma and Daddy could be wrong about Josh, and they clearly were - what else are they wrong about?

Have the Dugger's any redeeming value?  I'd say yes.  When I first saw the show I thought, my what a nice family, no arguing and yelling.  The kids are pretty well behaved.  This was pre-howler I guess.  Then I watched some more and saw all the things that were wrong.  It warned me not to ever be sucked in by people who at first appear to be fine and be doing a good job raising a family.  It taught me to look and see what was really going on.  I am certain that was the experience of thousands of other people.  

 

That's why I would not do a sponsor boycott.  Sponsor boycotts seem to be favored by those who hate their robocalls and so on and will never forgive them for that.  Hate = Hate.  One group of haters can just not watch.  Easy enough.  Their being on tv can actually convince people NOT to be like the fundamentalists.

 

I have a feeling Michelle may very well not be taking meds, but be self-hypnotizing herself into the zombie she is.  With the population explosion going on, they are really getting to the mental breakdown again.  No way can Howdy Booby support that many people.  You know Jill is pregnant again.  Can you imagine her in dangerous Central American directing a vaginal birth for herself after her C section.  Lucky if she makes it back alive.  The baby can come back in an ammo box for burial.  7 or 8 grandkids under the age of six, plus Josie is going to drive them all batty.

 

Anybody notice Jana wondering who you can trust on this episode?  Seems like she can't trust her dad or her older brother.  She seems to have appropriate, not tearful, reactions toward Josh for adultery.  Angry that he is a dips hit but not crying about it.

 

Just love "Howdy Booby" - this is perfect. PS - agree fully with post too.

[Wellfleet]

I vaguely remember Jana being named as one of Gothard's victims, too. If that's true, I can't even begin to imagine what goes on in her head when it comes to these things. The last fricking thing I'd want to do, whether I realized it consciously or not, is pass my entire life from the hands of one sick, twisted asshole to another. 

 

Also, lots of people have mentioned the "we never said we were perfect!" line of defense. Hilarious, since it was the main narrative of their show. I only saw the early specials in their entirety (14 Kids, 15 Kids, 16 Kids, etc) and if I had a nickel for every time I heard "Now, a TYPICAL family would do xyz, but WE'RE SO NOT A TYPICAL FAMILY!" Bubbling just beneath the cutesy (and wildly exaggerated) mathematics--it takes six hundred pizzas to feed the Duggars! They do 36 loads of laundry every day! They spend $6000 in a single trip to the grocery store!--was palpable self-satisfaction. And there were definitely plenty of overt examples too. They loved nothing better than to blabber endlessly about how holy and godly and correct they were compared to "a typical family"--we don't let our girls expose their knees, we keep strict control over every single personal interaction that they have so they don't end up like you heathens, we won't even let them go to public school or interact with anyone not as awesome and godly as we are, we don't have any debt like most of you stupid people do, we have a perfect marriage--let's demonstrate that with five thousand lip-pecks per minute, here! Pride cometh before the fall, right Dullard?

 

100% right. Now if the powers-that-be at TLC had any kind of intelligence at all, they also should have filmed a big family who weren't fundies. I keep thinking of that family in New Jersey whose name I can never remember. Dad was a cop, Mom was SAHM, one of the kids had CP. I think there were 10-12 kids total, including a set of quints or sextuplets. They were on TLC very briefly, no more than 10 episodes I think. And they were such nice, regular, middle-ground people. Juxtaposing their lives and how they did things with the whole Duggar world - now that would have made interesting television. And it might have even made good ratings too.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Obsidian]

I was going to reply to this

I think publicly flogging Josh sounds like a good idea to me.

 

saying that I thought a joint JimBoob/MeChelle flogging would be much more rewarding for all, and infinitely more deserved. Then I came across this, which sums it up nicely.

 

Time to throw your son under the bus totally. Murica hates his ass, so disengage. .get a few more kicks in...recalibrate. I cannot stand Smuggs...never could. .but what his family did last night was reprehensible. Do i think they should be able to voice their feelings about what he has done? Absolutely. With Smuggs. Not on t.v.
I swear I have a bad feeling about him. And not in a "nail another porn star" way. I fear he is going to make himself a bullet sandwich cus he doesn't have coping skills, education or any resources right now to work his way thru this shitstorm and likely sees no way out.
Shunning my ass. He needed professional treatment years ago.
His fucking parents are who need to be shunned.. .or shot.
I'm pissed. I cannot believe i am feeling sorry for him but I am.
I feel sorry and incredibly angry at the same time.

 

(I don't think I can watch these shows from New Zealand until they're on YouTube, but I'll travel to the US to watch those two admit at least some wrongdoing in the children's upbringing and their handling of Josh, and to see them outline how they're going to change things for the future.)

[Aja]

The music was really strange. There wasn't any most of the time, we had simple sad chords occasionally, but right in the middle of the show we suddenly got a full on banjo hoedown when the Dillards showed up to Doppler Jill, and zany music with "boing" sounds during the cocoa scene.

I did not watch the special, but your description just made me do a really gross snorty noise as I was trying to swallow my diet Coke. 

[Micks Picks]

I remember that family.  What a great bunch they were.  Sextuplets and 2 sets of twins I believe.  They could not be tolerated by Kate Gosselin.  But the mom was lovely, the dad super, and the kids were oh so normal, and so good with the one who had CP.  Kate was a raging maniac and probably thought they made her look bad, when it was only her that made her look bad.  Nevertheless, the only big multiple family that stayed was Kate and I often wonder about that other family.  I'm sure they only would have done a couple of seasons anyway, because they really loved their life and each other.

[JoanArc]

Was that Table For 12? Maybe 19kac will be rebooted - Table for 18, Doghouse For 1.

 

On another note, they better reel in the Josh shunning. He might do something desperate, not suicide, worse, A TELL ALL! No where to turn, if Anna left, what would he have to lose? Wait till he finds out there'd be money in it. I also don;t really care that the Duggar family as a whole was shunned. They lied for years and years, if they'd been around my family, with young kids, and never revealed the truth about Josh (or his potential threat), you're damn right I'd be 'uh, busy' when they tried to get together. It's almost like shocking revelations will change people's view of you.

 

Edit: Also did they mention the new CPS investigation? That likely had nothing to do will Josh. Pure Michelle and Jim Bob ineptitude there.

Edited December 15, 2015 by JoanArc

[leighdear]

I think by spotlighting Josh's infidelity, they tried to take some of the spotlight off the molestation. 

 

The blame for the infidelity lies with Josh. The blame for the molestation lies with Michelle & Jim Bob.  If any of those kids wants to continue having food, clothing or a place to sleep, then they damn well better say that the worst sin was the Josh infidelity.

[farmgal4]

No kidding. Apparently TLC was not even smart enough to bring in a new - and competent - production team for these new specials. I'm not trained in journalism or TV production in any way, but having watched the Duggars for 10 years, I feel like I've taken a class in What Not to Do. I bet I - or any of us here - could plan and put together a more cohesive, articulate and interesting program than the people they have doing it now. Truly pathetic.

Wellfleet, look at what they've got to work with. They could bring in the best production team in the universe, but there wouldn't be much improvement. All they have to work with are a bunch of uneducated, closed-minded, judgmental, rednecked, religious zealots who think their way is the only way. On top of that, the conductor of this crazy train, JBoob, is so egotistical that he won't give an inch. It's difficult, if not impossible, to salvage something that's rotten to the core. JMHO

[Wellfleet]

Was that Table For 12? Maybe 19kac will be rebooted - Table for 18, Doghouse For 1.

 

On another note, they better reel in the Josh shunning. He might do something desperate, not suicide, worse, A TELL ALL! No where to turn, if Anna left, what would he have to lose? Wait till he finds out there'd be money in it. I also don;t really care that the Duggar family as a whole was shunned. They lied for years and years, if they'd been around my family, with young kids, and never revealed the truth about Josh (or his potential threat), you're damn right I'd be 'uh, busy' when they tried to get together. It's almost like shocking revelations will change people's view of you.

 

Edit: Also did they mention the new CPS investigation? That likely had nothing to do will Josh. Pure Michelle and Jim Bob ineptitude there.

 

That's it - Table for Twelve. The Hayes family in New Jersey. And I agree, I bet they quickly grew tired of the whole TV grind, loss of privacy, TLC bullshit etc etc. When they disappeared I chalked it up to responsible parents doing the right thing for their kids. SO hope that's true.

[smittykins]

Adultery is also one of the few things the Bible approves of divorce for.

Even so, I believe divorce is a no-no in Gothardism(which is what they really follow instead of the Bible). I used to attend a conservative church with no ties to Gothard, and once the pastor gave a sermon proclaiming there was no Biblical reason for divorce, even adultery.

[Wellfleet]

Wellfleet, look at what they've got to work with. They could bring in the best production team in the universe, but there wouldn't be much improvement. All they have to work with are a bunch of uneducated, closed-minded, judgmental, rednecked, religious zealots who think their way is the only way. On top of that, the conductor of this crazy train, JBoob, is so egotistical that he won't give an inch. It's difficult, if not impossible, to salvage something that's rotten to the core. JMHO

 

You could be right, but I'm not so sure. Yes, we know TLC is working with judgmental, uneducated Arkansas hillbillies and that one of them is the biggest, most competitive knob I've ever seen. But intelligent, creative, well-trained producers, writers and editors should have the chops to make riding in an elevator look interesting. You look for an angle, you shake things up, you try something different once in a while. And for sure, you don't let the Knob make decisions. He's taking the $, and that means TLC has bought the right to call the shots. Despite how eye-popping crazy that might make the Knob.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[BitterApple]

Is Scott still producing the show? They desperately need better material than Jessa and Jill making hot chocolate. It's unfortunate they chose to base the series around the most unlikable Duggar children besides Josh. Although it is kind of fun to watch Binjerman Seewald perform like a trained seal as Jessa's man-bitch. Homeboy is going to start aging very quickly being married to a spoiled princess.

[Aja]

Think like a TLC executive. They want their cash cow back. They figure the easiest way to do that is to make it resemble their previous cash cow as closely as possible without appearing totally insane (i.e. ignoring the Joshgates and pretending like nothing happened, which I'm sure is [quick Google search] Nancy Daniel's grandest wet dream.) It's pretty standard TV thinking--if something works and is popular, run it into the ground over and over and over and over again until the public is vomiting. I'm confident that concern about the welfare of the Duggar children--from Josh on down--starts and ends on these boards.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Aja

[Soup333]

I feel really, really bad for saying this, but Bin even walks dumb. I was kinda awestruck at how dim he appears to be. I couldn't have him around me and he certainly couldn't be my headship. Not even a figureheadship. 

[MargeGunderson]

I understand, Marge. And I agree that they could walk away, but in practical terms I bet it would be so intensely awful for the kids if they tried to refuse. I am sure they have been Prayer Closeted into compliance.

Good point. It makes me wonder though - what if Derrick or Ben wanted to stop filming, etc.? As the headship of their respective families, would Jill and Jessa have to agree? Can Jim Bob overrule?

More importantly, why do I care? I need a new hobby for Christmas.....

Edited December 15, 2015 by MargeGunderson

[GeeGolly]

In many cultures the oldest son is given special status even if not the first born child. I wouldn't go as far as saying these cultures parentify the oldest boy, but they carry a different status. And in a family like the Duggars that parentifies and stunts growth in their children similtaneously, the mixed messages to Josh, and about Josh were probably very confusing.

 

I think the repercussions of the molestations and the cheating were similar. He was sent away both times, and I do think Josh was 'publicly' flogged within the Gothard circle when he was younger and the same thing is happening now, but the circle is way bigger, and his adult siblings rather than his parents, are doing the flogging.

 

I am of the opinion that the molestations were a big deal to the family when it happened. Maybe not for all the right reasons, and JB & M certainly didn't do enough after the first incident, because if they did maybe the others wouldn't have happened. But I think it rocked their world in a bad way.

[leighdear]

Maybe TLC actually wants the show to tank so they never have to deal with this family again.  How about after they filmed & put together the 3 episodes, they realized they were such duds that the general public will never have the interest in the family to justify the cost of more shows.   So they slap the 3 shows together with half-assed editing and a focus on the boring, and throw them on the air as promised.  They've fulfilled the contract and kept any promises they may have made to the family. 

 

They MUST have a few new shows in development or pre-production to add to their slate. I just can't see them continuing with these people. 

[Wellfleet]

But intelligent, creative, well-trained producers would not be relegated to TLC's pathetic lineup of 'reality' shows.

 

This is probably SO true - and my point exactly too. LOL.

[dillpickles]

What I didn't understand while watching is what does Jessa do all day that she and Jinger no longer have time to spend together? Is selfie taking THAT time consuming?

You guys have it wrong, Jing is the busy one. She has to cook and clean after like what, 15 other people? Michelle can't be letting her work mules off the hook like that.

[Wellfleet]

One wonders why, if their world was so rocked in a bad way back then, they'd be stupid enough to subsequently sell out their family and privacy by signing on with TLC.

 

That's an easy one. Because they have Boob.

[GeeGolly]

One wonders why, if their world was so rocked in a bad way back then, they'd be stupid enough to subsequently sell out their family and privacy by signing on with TLC.

Uhm, stupidity & arrogance?