S17: Gabon

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, Hera said:

I stand by my belief that every winner of Survivor deserves his or her win, by definition ...

I stand by that belief as well, but Bob's win really tests me! I can never really bring myself to say the Bob was a deserving winner. I hate him so much lol!

[fishcakes]

Ha. I don't hate him, but I don't like him either. I'm also of the opinion that every winner is a deserving winner and his string of challenge wins makes it a little easier to apply that to Bob, but at the same time the fact that he was sitting next to Sugar who saved him twice and that he won by virtue of the Onions and Randy voting against Sugar and Susie rather than for him makes it a little harder. I'd actually forgotten that he was a challenge monster, but I'd also forgotten that he wasn't the super easygoing helpful neighbor he pretended to be. The cracks in that persona started to show at the end when he thought he was getting voted out because Susie won the final immunity and he got a little nasty with her a couple of times. Seeing his ugly side made his alliance with the Onions make sense, as well as his willingness to humiliate Randy with the fake idol when there was no need to do that. (Well, no game-related reason to do that; just for human reasons, Randy completely deserved it.)

Edited January 16, 2017 by fishcakes

[Guest]

On 1/14/2017 at 4:33 PM, Hera said:

Bob clearly had a good social game, and gave good answers in Final Tribal Council

He was kind of challenge beast, too, especially for an old guy.  Didn't he win like five in a row toward the end?  Plus, was he the first to make a fake idol that was convincing, or possibly at all?  

I thought Bob was a lame winner on first watch but on rewatch I felt he deserved it.  

[Hera]

He was indeed the challenge monster of the season, and made a very convincing fake idol. But there were also at least two votes that would have resulted in his ouster if Sugar hadn't decided to flip because she wanted to play with the "good guys". In particular, I'm thinking of the vote at Final 4. I don't think many people would force a tie to try to save someone who had so many friends on the jury. But on the other hand, luck has always been a huge part of the game and a huge part of every winner's win, so doesn't seem fair to hold Bob's luck against him.

Speaking of the challenges, I really enjoyed some of the ones they had this season. They clearly had more space to work with than they usually do, and using it made for some fun challenges—for example, in sling-shot golf.

[Guest]

Yeah, I would've been fine with Sugar winning but (iirc) she knew she was hated and wouldn't have a chance.  So I'm ok with her helping Bob to get to the end.  He played father figure to her, which was good socially.  And probably good luck for him that she was hated and also vulnerable due to her recent loss of her own father.

[whiitter]

On 7/22/2016 at 6:03 AM, cherrypj said:

I'm stuck. I finished S16: Micronesia a few weeks back (a good season!). But I can't seem to get started on this one.

I've heard many negative things about Gabon. Why shouldn't I just skip it? Are there any redeeming qualities or moments?

As a diehard survivor fan, I say don't skip it. Lol, yeah it isn't the best, but its good in its own way. One thing thats crazy is how mean Crystal, Corinne, and Randy are. All of Crystal's mean death glares are hilarious, and how horrible the one tribe was at allll of the challenges, and how hard Matty worked while everyone else sucked kinda reminds me of a Stephanie/Palau situation. The tribal counsels were cool too because they voted people out for bizarre ass reasons lol. But yeah Kenny was the evil mastermind, I really wish he would have won but I think he finally got caught being a villain. :) 

[LadyChatts]

Still going through Survivor withdrawals, so I decided to continue my re-watch and just randomly picked two seasons to watch, no matter what they were.  Unfortunately, my CBS app has a sense of humor and decided to pick Gabon and Caramoan as the two seasons to re-watch.  I don't drink, but I may start once I'm done.  I'm holding out hope maybe neither will be as terrible on re-watch (yeah, I know).

Was Michelle originally a Big Brother applicant?  Seems like the right type for that show, right down to the attitude.  I questioned if she was trying to get herself voted off first.  I don't think I've seen a tribe argue so much at the first TC as Fang did.  I was glad Gillian was the second to go.  She was Wanda Shirk level annoying.  I can't stand Randy, but I loved the looks he was giving her during the first IC when she was cheering her team on digging out the puzzle pieces (when the other team had their puzzle almost done).  And Michelle didn't get any final words?  I only wish Charlie could have wound up on Fang.  Lord I forgot how annoying he was.  No, he probably wouldn't have been in any danger of leaving, but I would have liked him to be miserable.  I also got annoyed at Kota saying how awesome they were.  I don't remember anything about Jackie, and she was part of the Onion alliance.

One of my favorite moments was during the first TC, when Jeff appointed GC as the leader:

Jeff: GC, you're the leader.

GC: I didn't say that Jeff!

Jeff: All in favor of GC being the leader?

Poor GC looked like his puppy was being thrown to a lion when they voted him as leader.  But like all leaders, it didn't take him long to annoy his tribe.

I loved the location.  I wish they could squeeze Africa in every so often.  The opening shots were amazing.  A lot of international seasons don't seem to have trouble moving around.  Not sure if it's a CBS decision, but I'm tired of the same, boring scenery of the Pacific islands.  I also liked the music they used to play throughout the show back then.  Seems like they cut back on that nowadays, too.

ETA: I remembered being surprised Kota chose Dan to go to EI.  Why send a strong guy that could possibly find the idol?

Edited August 8, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Star Aristille]

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

And Michelle didn't get any final words?

She did, but they were only available on CBS.com at the time.

[LadyChatts]

On 8/8/2017 at 5:51 PM, Star Aristille said:

She did, but they were only available on CBS.com at the time.

Thanks!  I knew there had to be a reason they weren't there (Gabon seems way longer ago than it was, so I forgot about that).

Anyway, got through a few more episodes:

Ep 2: not too much happened here that was interesting.  Randy decided to make himself the self appointed leader of Fang, since GC abdicated his role after less than 24 hours.  Fang finally won something this episode, though I don't know how hard Kota was really trying in the RC.  RC was "Kicking and Screaming", where one tribe member is wrapped around a pole and two members of the opposing tribe try to yank them off and drag them over the finish line first.  Ace didn't seem like he was trying too hard, and like he was setting Paloma up (when he was the one who suggested she wrap her itty bitty little body around the pole).  Saying she was getting tossed around like a rag doll was an understatement.  Sugar found the idol, and it was nice to see it being a challenge back then.  Having to dig, swim, search through the jungle, only to keep finding clues, is better than saying "I want an idol" and production handing one over.  Paloma was really the right choice to go.  As arrogant as Ace was (and being totally unobservant as to where his place was in his tribe), it was better to keep a target like him around vs keeping someone that was weak.  In all, wasn't an exciting episode.  I loved the water slide IC, but that was the only highlight.    

Ep 3: Tribe swap!  I enjoy when the tribe swaps aren't just a random buff draw.  In this case, the tribes ranked their respective members, then stood on a bunch of pillars in the order they were ranked.  The members of each tribe ranked #1 became team captains and chose their new tribes.  It was interesting that some members ranked higher were picked last, and Ken (captain for New Fang) picked Kelly, ranked last by her tribe.  I can't really remember much about Kelly, but I'm surprised I don't.  She sure had quite the attitude over getting blindsided at the previous vote (Paloma and her were allies), and being on the outside of her tribe.  It was more a sense of entitlement I thought.  She struck me as the kind of player that would probably have just gotten dragged along in the game like a goat anyway.  However, it was a strategic move to pick her ahead of people who ranked higher, since Ken figured that meant she was on the bottom of her tribe (literally), and might be a useful ally.  New Fang was Ace, Kelly, Jacquie, Crystal, Ken, GC, Matty.  New Kota was Corinne, Charlie, Marcus, Bob, Randy, Susie, Dan.  Being the last one standing, Sugar got sent to EI and would join whatever tribe lost immunity (and from this episode forward, the shack on EI became known as the Sugar Shack).  Kelly wasted no time throwing her old tribe mates under the bus.  Like pretty much every tribe swap, one person gets royally screwed, and it was unfortunately Jacquie.  I didn't remember much about her, but she was someone I would have rather seen stick around over Kelly or GC.  She seemed like a stronger player physically, mentally, strategically, and it was sad seeing her trying not to cry as she pleaded with her new tribe not to vote her off.  I'd argue Matty and Ken got screwed by the tribe swap, but for different reasons.  New Kota was more annoying than old Kota, with the exception of Marcus.  They definitely got the tribe swap lottery.  Despite being in a minority, Ace didn't seem overly concerned.  I know he had Sugar and her idol, but he seemed like he felt safer than he should have.  Since Jacquie was originally part of the Onion alliance, and in a minority on New Fang, I had wondered if her old alliance members on New Kota would potentially throw the challenge to save her, and hope she could get more of an in.  IC was water lacrosse-contestants in boats, trying to score points.  Who knew Randy would be the hero and score all of New Kota's points.  He definitely seemed like he fit in way better than there. 

Ep 4: Or the episode where GC quit by asking to be voted off.  New Fang found Sugar's idol, and debated whether to blindside her with it.  That would have been a smarter move, GC's wish to get voted out be damned.  It reminded me of Amazon, when Shawna wanted to get voted off, but her tribe kept her around because they needed her vote.  Keeping GC over Sugar wasn't going to matter, strength wise, so all he would have had to do was suck it up for 3 more days.  Or he could have just outright quit after the vote.  But they could have gotten the idol out of play, and since they were going to be on a losing streak regardless, one of them could have potentially found it on EI.  I liked Fang's camp site better, because they had such amazing shots of wildlife.  Once again, credit to this season and the fantastic scenery it provided.  Except the bugs.  I can always do without close ups of those.  So right before the IC, GC disappears, and there's some remarks that they would have to leave without him.  I'm assuming that's not allowed, and if all tribe members won't go to the challenge, it's an automatic forfeit.  RC was throwing fruit to your tribe member, while the opposing tribe had members trying to block it.  Whoever had the most fruit (weight wise) won.  New Fang looked like they had it, but New Kota made the smarter choice in throwing heavier and bigger fruits vs the smaller pieces New Fang threw.  It did look like New Fang had more, just weight wise it wasn't enough.  I feel like Fang's camp really must have been cursed, because it seemed like they had smart players on their tribe, they just never made good decisions.  Challenge wise, picking a new tribe (or even the old tribe)...it seemed like their decisions were always for the worst.

Ep 5: Foreshadowing to Ace's blindside!  Just like anytime a contestant says they can't wait for TC (and then gets blindsided), anytime someone says they don't want to be blindsided, that's usually what happens.  Matty and Ace swore on their loved ones to work together.  A standard Survivor fight over rations and food at New Kota, who has a grocery store supply of goodies vs Fang.  Dan was the culprit in taking more of his share, which made New Kota come up with ration laws.  I had been thinking that Randy hadn't been such a jerk yet, but that came out after the RC (which Fang should have just forfeited and saved their pride-that was embarrassing to watch).  It was carrying a snake around in a circle, until the other tribe caught you.  The snake was weighted down, and it didn't take long for New Fang to start dropping out, leaving just Matty and Ace in the challenge.  Crystal also foreshadowed to the merge and saying New/Old Fang wouldn't get along.  The reward was eclairs and pastries, but how long would those keep?  In terms of the new ration laws at New Kota, Dan really wanted more of his eclair, and Randy tried to egg him on to eat more, saying it was a reward.  IC was pairs running through an obstacle course, where they had to collect flag pole pieces to assemble.  The first pair was Kelly/Sugar, but I questioned Fang's stategy (if they had one), in challenge.  Again.  Why pair the two weakest members that go first in the challenge?  Why not pair each of them with a stronger member?  That might have made a world of difference.  Then Ace tried to take control at the end, after Fang made up so much time that they had lost in the beginning.  They probably would have won had it not been for that, and for Sugar/Kelly not being paired and going first.  Kelly got the boot, and all I can say is good riddance.  Crystal wanted Ace gone, making a valid point that Ace wasn't winning them challenges.  But again, Kelly or Ace, it probably wasn't going to matter.  Sugar tells Ken she gave Ace the idol, after Ace purposely went out of his way to avoid telling Matty she had given it to him.  Those two didn't try to hide their relationship well at all.  Kelly tried throwing old tribe members under the bus right up until the last minute at TC.  I did enjoy the arguing between her and Crystal, and her and Ace.    

Ep 6: Double boot!  Foreshadowing to Susie flipping on New Kota (with a nice touch from Probst at TC asking Corinne if they were making the right choice with the vote that night).  Of course, there was an II challenge, which Marcus won.  Rather than have someone from New Fang also outright win II, Marcus got to appoint immunity to someone on New Fang.  He picked Sugar, in the hopes that would mean Crystal, Ace, or Matty would be the target.I would have rather them not had immunity, because it's not like it mattered in the end.  The two intended targets went.  It was the log rolling challenge were you had to knock your opponent off first.  Ace, Sugar, and Marcus were in the final group, and of course the two people that needed it most didn't win.  That challenge seemed made for Sugar, and it was impressive how well she did.  Dan's boot wasn't surprising.  Ace, it was shocking but it wasn't.  He was a big enough character that he could have gone far, but equally, a big enough character that it led to his blindside.  Crystal accidentally spilled some of her tribe's rice, but wouldn't it still have been edible had they boiled it?  It was on the ground, and god knows what kind of bacteria is there.  But boiled in water, it should have been fine.  I guess the continual losses just made them more sensitive.  Dan felt like the odd man out (rightfully) and told Corinne/Marcus that he wanted to belong.  It just further ostracized him.  He told his new tribe mates he kept to himself on Old Fang because he didn't like those people, but I thought he did better with his old tribe.  Ken did a great job convincing Sugar to turn on Ace.  Had she stuck with him, Crystal would have been voted out.  We would have missed some pretty amazing gems from her had she gone.  The RC was keepaway, where tribes had to protect their "ball" from getting smashed by a member of the opposing tribe.  Like most point based challenges.  it was only played to 3.  I wish they'd have to play to more points in these cases.  I don't condone violence, but damn I wish someone had thrown a ball and broke it on Randy's face.  Sugar sent back to the Sugar Shack again, with Matty saying she was worthless because she was a pin up model.  But she kind of proved herself in the IC, even if it wasn't for the tribe that time.  I think New Fang dug their own grave by voting Jacquie out when they did.  Whose to say it would have helped, but she was stronger than Sugar, Kelly, and GC.  So the reward was a picnic with letters from home (20 days in and the tears are flowing over that), but Randy's expression of not giving a damn is probably how I would feel.  I guess I'd have to be in that situation, but I couldn't imagine being that homesick that many days away.  Except for my cat, but as for my other family members, we don't talk or see each other on a regular basis.  Bob looked so skinny for a guy that had been on the tribe continually winning rewards.  The more exciting part of the episode was Fang's TC.  Again, some great arguing and facial expressions.  And a time in Survivor history when the word "blindside" wasn't overused.  I will say I liked Ace, and he's someone I would enjoy seeing play again.  

So lessons future Survivors should have learned?  Don't be a leader, don't be a food hog, don't be bossy, if you're going to stay allied with someone make sure you compare notes before talking with other tribe mates, and don't be an outcast unless you want to get voted off.  And lessons from Old and New Fang-think smart in your decisions with tribe picks, who you vote off, and who does what in challenges.  That might have made a world of difference for Fang in the early part of the game.

In all, it's been enjoyable so far, but I credit that to that location.  I enjoy landlocked locations every now and then.  I'm going to be really disappointed if we're stuck in Fiji from now until the show's end.

[Star Aristille]

8 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

Paloma was really the right choice to go.  As arrogant as Ace was (and being totally unobservant as to where his place was in his tribe), it was better to keep a target like him around vs keeping someone that was weak.

She may have been the right one to go, but the arrogant tear-wiping gesture Marcus made after she was voted out made me hate him, despite the show's obvious attempt to edit him as the golden boy before his vote-off episode.

[LadyChatts]

2 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

She may have been the right one to go, but the arrogant tear-wiping gesture Marcus made after she was voted out made me hate him, despite the show's obvious attempt to edit him as the golden boy before his vote-off episode.

I'll have to go back, because I don't remember that part.  I'm actually surprised Marcus has never been back, unless he's been asked and declined.  As you said, he has the edit this show loves, he said an alpha male that Probst loves, and a vote off that reeks of redemption.  I did enjoy him, but it was hard picking favorites this season.  Him, Matty, Sugar, Crystal, and Ken, and I did enjoy Ace.  Everyone else was either an 'eh' or those I couldn't stand.

[Star Aristille]

12 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I did enjoy him,

I don't see what there was to enjoy about Marcus.  He was a dickbag, plain and simple, something that becomes very apparent in his boot episode.  Coincidentally, that was the episode after the Ace/Dan double boot episode.

[LadyChatts]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 4:32 PM, Star Aristille said:

I don't see what there was to enjoy about Marcus.  He was a dickbag, plain and simple, something that becomes very apparent in his boot episode.  Coincidentally, that was the episode after the Ace/Dan double boot episode.

I still like Marcus, even after watching that ep.  I don't know if they went out of their way to edit him as a grade A jack ass to explain his downfall or what, but I don't think he's terrible.  He had what I call Survivor Leadership-it is.  He broke a few basic rules to potentially ensure his Survivor life-after the TC where Dan got booted, everyone ganged up on Susie for going after Corinne.  Then, despite everyone on Fang knowing he was the leader of Kota, he should have tried to downplay that.  Instead, he took charge of what to do with the HII at the fake merge that was really a new swap feast, then bragged in a TH that he got 9 other people to toss away a HII (which, as it turned out, no one needed more than him).  Again, why I like re-watching these episodes, is that the writing is on the wall what is going to happen, you just really pick up on it after watching.  And, of course, everyone assumed it was a merge, despite there being no mention of the tribes merging, so they should have had their guard up.  Lastly, Marcus didn't make sure to make Susie feel 100% comfortable once the tribe swap happened and he wound back up with Bob, Ken, Crystal in addition to her.  He also underestimated being best friends with Crystal's cousin and thinking she wouldn't vote for him.  So Marcus, perhaps rightfully, was overconfident.  The tribe swap worked out perfectly in his alliances favor.  He was the leader of his alliance and well respected.  The only hitch and eventual downfall in his dominance was Susie.  It probably didn't help matters that, when New New Kota went to TC, Bob said he would have voted Susie out at the previous TC had he known there wasn't a merge coming up.  So again, not only do you make all members of your alliance feel comfortable, make sure they pay special attention to the ones that are at the very bottom and a potential swing vote for the other side.  I'm not complaining, because I'm glad the Onion alliance fell apart thanks to Susie.  I did get a chuckle out of Ken writing "Marc-Ace" on the parchment paper when he cast his vote.  If there's anyone I would kill to see again from this season, it's Ken.  This was also the ep where Sugar discovered that he had duped her into voting out Ace at the previous TC, but it probably worked out for the best.  For argument's sake, had Crystal gone and then Ace wound up on New New Kota in her place, there's no way he would have convinced Susie to flip.  And what was up with Matty at the IC?  It was an individual IC but it was for tribe immunity.  He was the last one standing for Fang, and Bob was the last one for Kota.  Matty seemed to be trying to shake Bob's confidence but he seemed a little wild.  That was the challenge where you have to balance two poles on your hands until they fall off the end, and his were tettering right on the edge.  It was pretty impressive he hung on. 

I watched the next episode, where the merge actually did happen and Charlie got booted (or as I like to call it, Game Officially Over for the Onion Alliance).  I loved the reaction of New New Fang-Corinne, Randy, Charlie, and Sugar looking at New New Kota in disbelief/shock that Marcus is gone.  And then there's Matty, whose all teeth.  I enjoyed Ken standing up for himself and his new tribe when Corinne and Charlie made remarks about how Marcus deserved to be there.  He kept saying "why does he deserve to be here over everyone else."  Then there was the last tribal RC, which was flinging golf balls from a sling shot and seeing who could get it in the hole first.  The two tribes were tied, and New New Fang was right on the edge of the last hole.  Randy and Matty decided to get into a spat about what was the right way to fling the ball the extremely short distance.  It was pretty comical, and would have been even funnier if they had lost.  The RC was one of my favorites, where they go hang with the locals for a day.  Corinne showed a shred of humanity by being friends with that adorable little girl that was following them.  Randy saying one of the local women was hitting on him, so he got up and danced with her, even though he didn't want to, and hadn't had a women flirt with him in 20 years.  And then there was Matty.  He was a lot of fun at that reward.  Then we officially get the merge, and everyone goes back to Cursed Camp Fang (now known as Nobag).  I do enjoy when they go back to the crap camps once in awhile for the merge vs the better camps.  Fang had a lot of great views, too.  Susie won the fire making IC (Sugar was the only other one within reach), and the 4 remaining members of the Onions tried to get Sugar to flip.  She was apprehensive about re-aligning with Ken after finding out he screwed her into voting out Ace.  Ken told the lie of Charlie being the brains behind everything, and that was why they needed to go after him first (in addition to him being tight with Corinne).  Randy's ugliness was on display at TC when he and Crystal got into it, then he called her a bitch in his voting confessional (and only wrote down the letters C.C., which Jeff had to clarify who it was for).  If no one owned up to the vote, would it not be counted?  Anyway, Charlie got blindsided, though I don't know why he and Corinne were so shocked, unless they assumed it was Randy going.  But Charlie didn't mind getting to go to Ponderosa alone with his beloved Marcus. 

Oh, and of course, this was the ep where Bob created his fake idol.  I can't wait for Randy to find it.

[Star Aristille]

1 minute ago, LadyChatts said:

I still like Marcus, even after watching that ep.  I don't know if they went out of their way to edit him as a grade A jack ass to explain his downfall or what, but I don't think he's terrible.  He had what I call Survivor Leadership-it is.  He broke a few basic rules to potentially ensure his Survivor life-after the TC where Dan got booted, everyone ganged up on Susie for going after Corinne.  Then, despite everyone on Fang knowing he was the leader of Kota, he should have tried to downplay that.  Instead, he took charge of what to do with the HII at the fake merge that was really a new swap feast, then bragged in a TH that he got 9 other people to toss away a HII (which, as it turned out, no one needed more than him).

Well, good for you.  I still don't.  So there.

If you need more proof of how much of a dick he is, then check out the old Ponderosa videos.  They're out there somewhere.

[LadyChatts]

33 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

Well, good for you.  I still don't.  So there.

If you need more proof of how much of a dick he is, then check out the old Ponderosa videos.  They're out there somewhere.

Oh, I remember what a group they were in Ponderosa, especially when poor Crystal showed up.

[SVNBob]

18 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I loved the reaction of New New Fang-Corinne, Randy, Charlie, and Sugar looking at New New Kota in disbelief/shock that Marcus is gone.  And then there's Matty, whose all teeth

It's become a meme.

[Lamb18]

Unpopular opinion: I'm enjoying the Gabon season. I have just the finale left. I was expecting it to be really unpleasant, and there was unpleasantness (like Randy) but there was enough OK and funny stuff to balance it out. There were some good blindslides in taking out Marcus, Charlie, Corrinne, Randy and Crystal. Sugar is my favorite, she's smart and orchestrated some good moves, especially with persuading Bob to not give his idol to Kenny. I don't know how they could stand Randy enough to keep him as long as they did. He is just a nasty man. Kenny's a good player, too.  My favorites are the hippos and elephants, however, especially that one elephant that liked to scream at the Fang tribe across the river.

After watching this past season of Big Brother, to me Gabon is full of happiness, sunshine and rainbows.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Lamb18

[LadyChatts]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 8:23 AM, Lamb18 said:

Unpopular opinion: I'm enjoying the Gabon season. I have just the finale left. I was expecting it to be really unpleasant, and there was unpleasantness (like Randy) but there was enough OK and funny stuff to balance it out. There were some good blindslides in taking out Marcus, Charlie, Corrinne, Randy and Crystal. Sugar is my favorite, she's smart and orchestrated some good moves, especially with persuading Bob to not give his idol to Kenny. I don't know how they could stand Randy enough to keep him as long as they did. He is just a nasty man. Kenny's a good player, too.  My favorites are the hippos and elephants, however, especially that one elephant that liked to scream at the Fang tribe across the river.

After watching this past season of Big Brother, to me Gabon is full of happiness, sunshine and rainbows.

I've actually enjoyed it more than I was expecting, too.  In fact, Corinne doesn't even seem as bad as I remembered.  Randy was nasty as ever, but I'm thinking most of the nastiness I remember came from the finale and Ponderosa clips.  I'm really disappointed the only people we've gotten back from this season are Randy, Corinne, and Sugar.  I definitely think there are other good choices.  I'm especially surprised/disappointed we haven't seen Kenny yet.

[simplyme]

This is kind of harsh, but imo the thing about Gabon for me is that very few of the players were actually good at Survivor strategically or socially, and they didn't seem to be a particularly athletic bunch either. Randy, Sugar, and Corinne were all brought back because they were memorable characters, not because they were good players. Before rewatching Gabon, I had remembered Sugar more fondly. After I rewatched it a few months ago, I was appalled at what a hypocrite she was. She was kind of nasty to people she disliked and justified it by saying they were bad people. Way to take the high road, Sugar. She also was horrible at strategy and several of the physical challenges.

Randy has very little social game. He's a curmudgeon in a Hawaiian shirt.

Corinne is strategic and athletic and can apparently be charismatic, but anyone with two brain cells notices that she's playing hard very early. She also has a hard time swallowing her ego if she feels slighted.

Ken is really the only one I wanted to see back from that season. The thing is, I'm not sure he was that great a player either or if he just looked good because omg was he playing with a bunch of morons.

Now the wildlife? It was awesome.

[LadyChatts]

16 hours ago, simplyme said:

This is kind of harsh, but imo the thing about Gabon for me is that very few of the players were actually good at Survivor strategically or socially, and they didn't seem to be a particularly athletic bunch either. Randy, Sugar, and Corinne were all brought back because they were memorable characters, not because they were good players. Before rewatching Gabon, I had remembered Sugar more fondly. After I rewatched it a few months ago, I was appalled at what a hypocrite she was. She was kind of nasty to people she disliked and justified it by saying they were bad people. Way to take the high road, Sugar. She also was horrible at strategy and several of the physical challenges.

Randy has very little social game. He's a curmudgeon in a Hawaiian shirt.

Corinne is strategic and athletic and can apparently be charismatic, but anyone with two brain cells notices that she's playing hard very early. She also has a hard time swallowing her ego if she feels slighted.

Ken is really the only one I wanted to see back from that season. The thing is, I'm not sure he was that great a player either or if he just looked good because omg was he playing with a bunch of morons.

Now the wildlife? It was awesome.

Dare I say I actually liked Corinne during her second appearance?  It wasn't hard, since she was the main foe to the group I hated.  I agree about her playing too hard, too fast, and I think that was ultimately her undoing in Caramoan as well.  I looked at Sugar differently after HvsV, and watching her now on her for the second time, my love has wavered.  I think she's cute but just seemed naive.  Case in point when she believed Ken that Ace was out for her, so she voted off her main ally, then turned around and was mad at Ken for lying to her and making her betray Ace.  I believe I loved Sugar so much because she was the main adversary to the group I hated most.  I still think she would have been a better winner than Bob.  I could actually say Susie would have been a better winner.  Bob's the kind of winner I hate because he solely won so someone else in the final 3 wouldn't.  Oddly enough Randy seemed to be one of the better athletes this season, so I guess that proves one of your points.

I do think Ken is a good strategic player, but whether he would do good with a full cast of vets I don't know.  Especially after all this time, when the game has changed so drastically.    

Edited September 27, 2017 by LadyChatts

[LadyChatts]

Finished my re-watch.  In all, Gabon wasn't as bad as I remembered.  We had an underdog uprising that turned the tide of the game (and imo made the season enjoyable), and the villains taken out at the beginning of the merge.  I go back to thinking most of the ugliness I remember was at Ponderosa when people not part of the Onion alliance started arriving, and the bitterness at the FTC.  The challenges were among some of my favorite of the series, and I can't say enough about the location and wildlife shots.  We've already had 3 people back from this season, and since it isn't a popular one, I doubt we'll see anyone else back again.  But there's quite a few pre and post mergers I'd like to see return.  I wouldn't rank Gabon top 10, but it's not bottom 10, either.

I do wish it had a different outcome.  Heck, Susie was a non factor once the Onion alliance started getting picked off, but her flipping early on helped turn this season and game around.  I was a Sugar supporter this season, and I love that she made it to the end because Corinne and company hated her so much.  Bob was a challenge beast and made a good fake idol, but other than that, I felt was a nice guy but non factor.  Lucky for him he was up against Sugar and Susie, and that his former allies held the majority in the jury (which Probst was polite enough to point out during the F4 TC).  Nice enough guy, but I consider him a lousy winner.  Sugar definitely made a lot of mistakes, and had she not been so emotional during the game, maybe she could have played with a clearer head, or at least owned them a little better.  Knowing what I know now about her, I do look at her differently, but if I go back to when I originally watched the season, I really wanted her to win.  Whether Bob went to the final 3, or Matty, Susie and Sugar had no chance of winning.  I would have rather Matty been the winner, but whatever.  At least he got a fiancee out of this season.  I should add that he looked much cuter in the game than when he was voted out.  But I usually think the men look better when they are scruffier than cleaned up.

Edited December 17, 2017 by LadyChatts