S17: Gabon

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S17 topic.

[cherrypj]

I'm stuck. I finished S16: Micronesia a few weeks back (a good season!). But I can't seem to get started on this one.

I've heard many negative things about Gabon. Why shouldn't I just skip it? Are there any redeeming qualities or moments?

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, cherrypj said:

I'm stuck. I finished S16: Micronesia a few weeks back (a good season!). But I can't seem to get started on this one.

I've heard many negative things about Gabon. Why shouldn't I just skip it? Are there any redeeming qualities or moments?

Hmm, I have a hard time recommending this one too. There's a fairly satisfying schadenfreude arc where the smug, high school cool kids clique gets overthrown by the outcast types and some funny TC moments, but I know I've never revisited this season because my memory of it is negative and a bit dull. Hard to root for anyone really. 

[SVNBob]

I read back through the Funny115 to look for some highlights, and there are a few.  Most of them surround Crystal, Randy, and Sugar.

[simplyme]

I remember liking Kenny, the geeky gamer. The season was terrible in many ways, but in others it was somewhat nice to see jagoffs get voted out because certain people played with their heart.*

*I don't rewatch seasons, so this is based on my lasting impressions of that long-ago season and could be completely off-base.

[LadyChatts]

I liked Ken, too.  In fact, I'm disappointed he's never returned again.  I barely remember any of the pre-merge crowd from this season, and I wish I could largely forget the post merge crowd.  I loved the location, as Africa is something different, and having landlocked locations is a nice change to the island scene we get nearly every season.  The location was probably my favorite thing about this season.  As a whole, bottom 10.  One of the worst ever, thanks to the nasty cast.  If someone was looking for a rec to either re-watch, or someone who missed certain seasons, this isn't one I would recommend to start with.

[simplyme]

We could probably put together a drinking game based on this season.

Drink every time Sugar cries. Drink every time Randy says something racist. Drink whenever Bob builds something.

I'm sure people have other suggestions.

If using alcohol, I recommend that the "drinks" be small sips though or players will need their stomachs pumped.

[KimberStormer]

Skippable, though I love the elephants, and it's a delight for me anyway to watch Sugar, the original Abi-style all-devouring goat, who declines to be instrumentalized and destroys everyone who tried to use her.  More strategically and effectively than Abi, too; Sugar dominated that game.  It is a terrible shame that the winner won when there were two vastly more deserving women next to him, but what can you do.  That was Sugar running the game some more, in a sense, anyway.

[omophagia]

Yeah, up until Worlds Apart, this was the season with the most actively unpleasant, toxic cast. The "onion" alliance with Charlie, Marcus, and Corinne was just nasty throughout, and Randy was antisocial and belligerent. Though we know now that the editing was heavily skewed to make her more sympathetic, the things that were said to and about Sugar went far outside the scope of gameplay, and that was also true of some of the nastiness directed toward Susie.

Pre-merge, Ace was weird in an entertaining way with his constantly shifting accents, and Matty and Ken were interesting. And Sugar played a dominant and truly one-of-a-kind game that was impressive to see in action, even though she would never have won with that jury.

Edited July 24, 2016 by omophagia
Because I know when to use an apostrophe.

[Oholibamah]

Taken in totality, Gabon isn't really that bad. There's something unserious and comical about the season that perfectly mimics the play-style of its biggest character. 

Really what it comes down to is whether or not a cast drives your enjoyment of a season. If you explained Worlds Apart to somebody without reference to personalities, wouldn't it sound pretty fantastic? Gabon, too, has some exciting arcs and chaotic twists. Unfortunately, the people just aren't that compelling or likeable, and too many women go home early. 

I would hesitate to rewatch Thailand, South Pacific and Caramoan, but would gladly rewatch Gabon. 

[ForeverAlone]

I think Gabon works on a binge watch, but I can see how this season could be infuriating if you were watching it week to week. The gameplay isn't very high level, and most of the gameplay was emotional in nature (i.e. Sugar), but it is entertaining to see so many annoying personalities interact. The FTC was an absolute shit show (in the best way possible), because all three of the finalists give really poor tribal performances (I wouldn't have wanted to vote for any of them based only on their FTC performances) and most of the jury members were super angry and bitter in their questions. 

If you know what you are getting with Gabon and keep your strategic expectations low, it can be fun to watch. 

[KimberStormer]

That is an interesting concept: which seasons are best to watch week by week, and which are best to binge.  I'd have to think about it, but I'm sure there are distinctions to be made. 

[BK1978]

I found Fuji's cast to be the cast I hated the most.  This was a close second but I was a fan of Sugar and was happy to see Bob win (Mainly because I love seeing older people do well on Survivor.).  I really do not remember all that much about this season because the last time I saw it was when it aired (Funny how I can remember stuff that happened in older seasons but I completely forget stuff that happened in more recent seasons.).  I know I hated Marcus, Charlie, and Corrine.  Un-popular opinion time but I liked Randy. 

[Potanical Pardon]

This season was a chore, but I liked Kenny and Sugar. I really don't like this trend I'm noticing in surrounding seasons of the faux-yuppie-cool-kid bullies aghast and feigning betrayal and innocence retaliating against the final players who outsmarted their dumb asses. These hypocrites are only so pure because they didn't last long enough to implement their own scheme.

[cherrypj]

Just saw episode 8 and holy shit: Randy is racist. It's so ingrained that he had no problem with revealing his racism to his tribe mates and millions of viewers. Amazingly, the editors didn't even try to hide it. Good for them.

I can't see how Sugar is running this game: how does she seem so incredibly stupid and out of it one minute, and then is far and away the smartest person out there the next? She is a mystery. 

[cherrypj]

Sugar did nicely there: duping Randy. Good for her. But then she was completely ignorant of the Bob Fake Idol II--that was all Kenny telling Crystal to flush it. So ... still not sure how she's running this game. But a few more episodes left!

Glad to see Corinne go. Can't believe she and Randy came back for later seasons. Both are despicable people.

[Michel]

7 minutes ago, cherrypj said:

Sugar did nicely there: duping Randy. Good for her. But then she was completely ignorant of the Bob Fake Idol II--that was all Kenny telling Crystal to flush it.

That was actually something that ended up ruining both Kenny and Crystal's games.  If Kenny hadn't overthought that vote, he, Crystal, Bob, and Corinne would've had a straight shot to the F4.  As it was, Sugar decided she couldn't trust them anymore and turned everyone against Crystal and then Kenny on the next two votes.

That was how she was running the game.

[cherrypj]

41 minutes ago, Michel said:

That was how she was running the game.

Sugar! I'm so sorry I doubted you! <cries> Please forgive me! You're the queen of Survivor! 

She basically told Matty to stop thinking! "Let me do the thinking," she mouthed, "you, no." Delightful! 

[cherrypj]

I thought I'd be OK with Bob winning, but I wasn't. That was a pretty bitter jury, for sure. I'm glad that Sugar defended herself. 

On 7/24/2016 at 1:45 PM, omophagia said:

Though we know now that the editing was heavily skewed to make her more sympathetic, the things that were said to and about Sugar went far outside the scope of gameplay, and that was also true of some of the nastiness directed toward Susie.

Not sure I want to know.

Oh well. On to the next one. Hopefully I won't take so long to watch. (Maybe that's a clue of how much I "enjoyed" this season.)

[KimberStormer]

I love to think of the list of people who thought they could ride the Sugar Goat to the Million: Ace, Marcus, Charlie, Corinne, Ken, and Crystal.  All annihilated.  What a crew!

Susie is the real underrated story, of course.  She's the one who really dismantled the Onions, and saved us all from Marcus smugging his way to the win.  Flipped on him at the right time and won immunity exactly when she needed it.  Of course I can't remember a single word she said...

Edited November 18, 2016 by KimberStormer

[Oholibamah]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I love to think of the list of people who thought they could ride the Sugar Goat to the Million: Ace, Marcus, Charlie, Corinne, Ken, and Crystal.  All annihilated.  What a crew!

Susie is the real underrated story, of course.  She's the one who really dismantled the Onions, and saved us all from Marcus smugging his way to the win.  Flipped on him at the right time and won immunity exactly when she needed it.  Of course I can't remember a single word she said...

Isn't that because she had her vocal chords removed?

[Michel]

14 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Susie is the real underrated story, of course.  She's the one who really dismantled the Onions, and saved us all from Marcus smugging his way to the win.  Flipped on him at the right time and won immunity exactly when she needed it.  Of course I can't remember a single word she said...

I remember at least two things Susie said.  The first was when she unintentionally set Corinne off by admitting (halfway jokingly) that she was about to vote for her at Tribal Council since no one was telling her what was going on in terms of the upcoming vote.  The second thing was at the merge, and after she, Kenny, Crystal, Matty, and Sugar joined up in their alliance and were choosing between Charlie and Corinne to vote out at the upcoming Tribal Council.  She argued that Corinne was less of a social threat because she was hurting her case with her personality, to which Matty hilariously replied, "Oh, God, she's horrendous."  Susie agreed with him and shared a high five with him over that sentiment.

[fishcakes]

After recently saying in another thread that Gabon is a skippable season, I am rewatching Gabon, mainly because the DVD was on sale over Christmas. So far, I've only seen the first episode, which was a double, and I remember so few of these people, but holy crap, what a lot of assholes. There are so many assholes in the first episode that Corrine comes off looking okay by comparison; that's how bad they are. The first person voted off, Michelle, was a black hole of negativity. She was young and athletic and couldn't get over being the last person chosen when they did a schoolyard pick for the tribes. She complained non-stop about everything and then berated the rest of her tribe at TC. Her day-after interview was basically, "I'm not surprised they voted me off. That's what losers do. That's what fatties do. They stick together." Yeesh.

Second person off was Gillian, the 60-ish grandma with the South African accent. She seemed fine, a little annoying but not terrible; mainly her problem was that she couldn't keep up in the physical challenges. But during the voting, GC (the young black guy) said he could see through her "mask" to the ugliness underneath and I didn't get that until her day-after interview. In her sweet little coded gray-headed way she talked about how her mistake was picking Crystal first because that set off a chain of picks that led to her tribe being "diverse" (her tribe had Crystal and GC, who were black, Asian Kenny, and Latina Susie), and she feels like she would have done much better on the other "cookie cutter" (i.e., all white) tribe. She also kept babbling on about how there might be an Outcast twist in the game that would bring her back in. I don't remember a lot about this season but I do remember that, thankfully, there was not.

Personalities aside, the first episode was pretty good; the scenery is beautiful and I especially love the wildebeests with little birds perched on their backs. Also, there was a bit of emphasis on food, water, and fire, which I always like to see in the beginning as people are getting used to roughing it.

Edited January 3, 2017 by fishcakes

[Guest]

I love Gabon.  So many memorable personalities.  I did miss the ocean, though.  They were sooo dirty.  

[LanceM]

Thought I'd post this here but the Survivor family has suffered another death.  Dan Kay from Survivor Gabon, just 40 years old. 

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/daniel-kay-obituary?pid=1000000183289986

[jsm1125]

That is incredibly tragic. He always seemed like such a sweet, good-natured guy on his season. May his family and friends find comfort and strength at this time.

[cherrypj]

I remember three things:

• He was hungry
• He had a disturbing lack of self-esteem
• He pinged my HITG* radar so much, but I never did place who he reminded me of

*No idea if there's a Hey It's That Guy thread here on PTV.

[Michel]

3 hours ago, cherrypj said:

I remember three things:

• He was hungry
• He had a disturbing lack of self-esteem
• He pinged my HITG* radar so much, but I never did place who he reminded me of

*No idea if there's a Hey It's That Guy thread here on PTV.

For me, all I remember about Dan is his post-show interviews, as he pretty much said he couldn't stand Marcus.  He wound up exposing that he wasn't the all-around nice guy the show was presenting him to be (although we saw a hint of how nasty he was when Paloma was voted out at Kota's first Tribal Council and he did that arrogant tear-wipe gesture after she got snuffed).  And sure enough, the very episode after Dan was booted, the show did indeed show Marcus's true, arrogant, obnoxious colors in all their glory, leading right up to Kenny, Crystal, and Susie awesomely blindsiding him right out of the game.

[NutMeg]

I didn't know that Dan said or implied he couldn't stand Marcus. I actually liked Dan well enough during the game, but soured on him at FTC when he never acknowledged how Sugar had helped him get that far in the game, and when all the nasty onions were rooting for him and he rolled with it. I know, I know, game to win, etc., but as I see it he did play a dirty game right there by pandering to the worst people and not acknowledging the one who had had his back for a while - it wouldn't even had cost him the win and would at least have been more elegant.

[Michel]

24 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I didn't know that Dan said or implied he couldn't stand Marcus. I actually liked Dan well enough during the game, but soured on him at FTC when he never acknowledged how Sugar had helped him get that far in the game, and when all the nasty onions were rooting for him and he rolled with it. I know, I know, game to win, etc., but as I see it he did play a dirty game right there by pandering to the worst people and not acknowledging the one who had had his back for a while - it wouldn't even had cost him the win and would at least have been more elegant.

Dan didn't make it to Final Tribal Council.  He was the last person voted out before the jury.  Marcus was voted out next and become the first juror.  Bob was the one for whom the Onions were rooting and ultimately won the whole thing.

[NutMeg]

3 hours ago, Michel said:

Dan didn't make it to Final Tribal Council.  He was the last person voted out before the jury.  Marcus was voted out next and become the first juror.  Bob was the one for whom the Onions were rooting and ultimately won the whole thing.

oops, thank you for the correction, obviously I don't remember Dan and I had forgotten the name of the winner :(

[fishcakes]

I'm about halfway through the rewatch and while the season itself is better than I remember, the people are so much worse. Gaaah, what a hateful bunch. I've been giving Randy the benefit of the doubt for years and saying, "oh, he wasn't that bad, he's just unhappy because he's so socially awkward," but I didn't remember all the awful things he said (like calling Crystal "Sasquatch") and didn't know about what he said in the extended exit interview, "Crystal is a freak of nature," "why does Susie speak with an accent if she was born in this country?" "Sugar is a whore," "I hope Bob has a heart attack and has to get carried out of camp." However, it was funny to watch him repeatedly claim that he knew the idol was a fake when he so obviously did not. Marcus and Charlie are no better, just different: super smug and thinking they're everyone else's moral and intellectual superiors. Marcus especially is shocked, shocked that people would lie in the game, especially people "who have children *cough*Susie*cough" and he just wonders how they'll live with themselves. Shut up, d-bag.

Favorite moment of the season so far: Crystal, Kenny, Matty, and Susie are deciding which of Corrine or Charlie to vote out first, and someone says that Charlie is more dangerous but Corrine has a terrible personality. This causes Matty to loudly exclaim "OH MY GOD, SHE IS HORRENDOUS!" and then Susie high fives him.

[cherrypj]

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Favorite moment of the season so far: Crystal, Kenny, Matty, and Susie are deciding which of Corrine or Charlie to vote out first, and someone says that Charlie is more dangerous but Corrine has a terrible personality. This causes Matty to loudly exclaim "OH MY GOD, SHE IS HORRENDOUS!" and then Susie high fives him.

Oh man, that was great. Heheh. Heheheh.

[Guest]

I actually think Randy (as well as many of the other Survivor villains and loonies) is just a really good actor and his whole antisocial curmudgeon thing was just a really well-done act.  I think the show is excellent at editing out the times the real person shows through (when it suits their story) but I saw a quick glimpse of Randy with the mask off for a bit at the reunion, I think.  IIRC, he couldn't hide a bit of a laugh at his own act in parts.  

[fishcakes]

I doubt it was an act. The fact that he had literally no one to bring as a guest to the reunion and ended up bringing some strangers who were fans of the show spoke volumes. Also, he went on one group reward where part of the reward was letters from home; the show didn't make it obvious, but you could see that while everyone else was reading their letters, he didn't appear to have received anything. There were individual shots of everyone but Randy reading their letters, and in the group shots, he's just looking at them while they're reading.

[Guest]

Those are some of the more anvilicious things to me that suggest it was an act.  I know, I'm probably 100% alone in that, but it's what I believe.  Same for Brandon Hines, which I'm sure is even more unpopular.  Phillip & Russell probably as well.  Coach, Jerry and Corinne, too.  Though I think these people do have these loonie/mean sides of their personality as well.  I think the producers saw those sides and said, "Hey, play that up big-time and we'll make your name a household word."  

[ozziemom]

Just rewatching Gabon, I have seen some seasons 3 or 4 times but this is not one. I remembered Corinne and Randy as obnoxious especially once they were in the minority but had forgotten how Sugar really controlled the end game. Also Marcus was a pompous ass, loved it when Kenny and Chrystal played him. Then the shocked response of Charlie and Corinne that they dared to vote him off was priceless. So all and all, a better season than I recalled.

[Hera]

This season and the people on it get referenced often enough that I've decided to start watching it myself. Sugar only got to say one or two things in the first episode, but I can already see why people might find her annoying.

[Guest]

Sugar is positively charming in this season compared to her next one.

[Oholibamah]

Interesting how so many people are rewatching this one at the same time! As of next season, Gabon will be in the older half of seasons. 

I remarked once how Gabon's cast was my least favourite (based on all contestants ranked and casts averaged), but I think South Pacific and Caramoan have since surpassed it. 

[fishcakes]

For some reason, the DVD didn't include the Ponderosa episode showing Marcus, Charlie, Corrine, and Randy ostracizing Crystal. I remember watching that online way back when and they acted like a bunch of middle schoolers, not talking to her, not eating with her, and being so generally shitty that Randy, of all people, felt guilty enough to go up to her privately and say, "we're just mad, we'll get over it in a few days." I felt like Charlie was probably the worst of the bunch because he did a confessional where he said he didn't want to do it because he had grown up being alternately bullied and ostracized for being gay and he hated to have to do it to Crystal but Marcus and Corrine were his friends so he had to do what they wanted. 

I don't know why they wouldn't include this episode. Marcus, Charlie, and Randy each got two Ponderosa episodes and Corrine got four, but for Crystal, they only showed one, where she's getting a massage and watching a video from home. It annoys me that the Onions showing themselves to be the nasty children they are isn't out there for people who didn't see it the first time.

[KimberStormer]

Yeah it's interesting they wouldn't include that.  I think more than anything else that Ponderosa is why people hate the Onions.  It was a sort of season-defining Ponderosa video in a lot of ways; I feel like if there's one Ponderosa vid that had to be shown to understand the season, it's that one!  I suppose it must be the very fact that it stirred up so much anger that made them want to cut it?  The only good reason I could imagine is if Crystal didn't want it there because it's such a bummer, but I feel like it's just erasing abuse, and a very specific very ugly kind of abuse, to memory-hole it.

But the Internet never forgets!

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Yeah it's interesting they wouldn't include that.  I think more than anything else that Ponderosa is why people hate the Onions.  It was a sort of season-defining Ponderosa video in a lot of ways; I feel like if there's one Ponderosa vid that had to be shown to understand the season, it's that one!  I suppose it must be the very fact that it stirred up so much anger that made them want to cut it?  The only good reason I could imagine is if Crystal didn't want it there because it's such a bummer, but I feel like it's just erasing abuse, and a very specific very ugly kind of abuse, to memory-hole it.

But the Internet never forgets!

Ugh, I'm sorry I clicked on that, Corinne just sets my teeth on edge instantly.

And wow, what a lame Ponderosa location. It looks like picnic tables set up in a parking garage. The ceilings were so low that Crystal couldn't even stand all the way up. 

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Yeah it's interesting they wouldn't include that.  I think more than anything else that Ponderosa is why people hate the Onions.  It was a sort of season-defining Ponderosa video in a lot of ways; I feel like if there's one Ponderosa vid that had to be shown to understand the season, it's that one!  I suppose it must be the very fact that it stirred up so much anger that made them want to cut it?  The only good reason I could imagine is if Crystal didn't want it there because it's such a bummer, but I feel like it's just erasing abuse, and a very specific very ugly kind of abuse, to memory-hole it.

But the Internet never forgets!

Ah, thank you; I was wanting to see that again to feel better about why I hated the Onions. Though I remember it being worse than that, especially Charlie's interview. Maybe I'm confusing that interview with another one he did, or maybe it's just that in the subsequent years, we've had so much heinous behavior from players that what once seemed really awful is somewhat mild by comparison but because I remember him as being terrible I filled in blanks that weren't there.

40 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

And wow, what a lame Ponderosa location. It looks like picnic tables set up in a parking garage. The ceilings were so low that Crystal couldn't even stand all the way up. 

There was a nicer Ponderosa location that Marcus and Charlie got to stay at that looked like it might have been at a resort. But it was only accessible by helicopter, so the person voted out and the jury had to stay at the Production base camp until the next morning and then get flown to Ponderosa. Starting with Randy, they abandoned that Ponderosa for the one in this video, which looks like a bunch of portable cabins and tents. I'm not sure why they didn't go with that all along since I would think the first one was a huge hassle, even when it was just a couple of people.

Edited January 11, 2017 by fishcakes

[KimberStormer]

I think it's probably just that subsequent heinousness has muted the impact a little.  But it doesn't take much to say, wow, these people are the worst, a bunch of little children throwing a tantrum, I have just no respect at all for it.  Corinne, you were going to take Crystal to the Top 5?  Really?  And she'd be sitting pretty there with you?  To me Charlie's exactly what you said, a snivelling chickenshit worm, boo hoo your "friends" of three weeks might be mad at you for not being a colossal asshole like they are, what an impossible Shakespearean moral dilemma this is that you're fucking failing with a smile on your face, you dipshit.  But I think Marcus is, as always, the worst: "You kind of reap what you sow, and you can't expect that the whole argument of 'it's just a game' will make everything go away..."  Like what the fuck, Marcus.  What even is "everything" here?  What did she do except vote you out?  You were never aligned for one single second.  You were trying to vote out her own closest ally.  What right do you have to have your feelings hurt?  The dude just thinks the angels were supposed to come down out of the sky and present him the million-dollar check, here I am, Marcus, the Platonic ideal of Sole Survivor...

But who are those other people there, production people?  Why aren't they all talking to Crystal, instead of only that one?  Now I'm all upset again over Gabon Ponderosa, which is no longer even the worst Ponderosa, arrrrrrgh (ps I am getting over the flu and especially grumpy)

[Hera]

I'm a little more than halfway through the season now (the merge has finally happened and Charlie has been voted out). I love that both Ace and Marcus, who thought they had such amazing control of the game and the people on their respective tribes, both got ousted. I also loved Ken calling out that idea that Marcus "deserved" to be in the game over everyone who had managed not to get voted out when Marcus' allies expressed their dismay that he was gone.

After hearing so much about how Crystal sucked in challenges and how awful Randy was to her, I'm surprised by how well she and Ken have played the social game so far. They are a remarkable team when it comes to flipping the right person at the right time. It's a shame we haven't seen either of them back, though given how tough the game has been on Crystal so far and how awful people were to her in Ponderosa, I guess that's why.

[fishcakes]

Now that I've finished the season, I don't see how any of the people who got to play again -- Corinne, Randy, and Sugar -- should have been invited back. Randy because he's not built to play a social game, Corinne because she's garbage, and Sugar, because as likeable as she was to Gabon viewers, her style of play was too chaotic to be successful a second time.

People I would have liked to see return are Ace, Matty, and Jacquie. Ace was one of the most conceited people they've ever had, but he was a decent player and seemed like a good(-ish) person. Matty was just an okay player, partly hampered by being on a consistently losing tribe, but also surprisingly naive, not so much about the game, but about life. He was like a baby deer in human form. Also, I like his face. If Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon had a baby, he would look like Matty. And Jacquie I think had a lot of potential, but got killed by the tribe swap. She didn't get much airtime, but listening to her exit interview, she seemed smarter and more interesting than I had thought, given that she was the island girlfriend of Marcus and his massive entitlement issues.

Maybe Kenny too, although I grew to dislike him towards the end because of the way that he kept insisting he had a deal with Bob that he knew he didn't have. Also he and Crystal and Randy were kind of shitty to Matty at Ponderosa. The poor kid just got there and was trying to eat his dinner and they wouldn't stop hounding him about why he voted them out. It wasn't as bad as the Onions freezing out Crystal and Kenny, but it wasn't nice either.

[LadyChatts]

I can see why Sugar was brought back.  Similarly, I can see why Randy and even Corinne were brought back-though they were about the last people I wanted back from this season or (at the time) any season.  They were such disgusting miserable piles of puke.  Sugar I absolutely adored, and the fact that Corinne and Randy hated her so much made me root for her even harder.  After HvsV, my opinion of Sugar changed.  But my opinions of the other two probably never will.  Seeing the castaways they bring back (sometimes more than once), game play clearly isn't a strong objective.  While I think it'd be cool to actually have all the best players to be cast in a returning players season, I know that'll never happen.

I didn't like Ace at the time, although I can't really remember why.  But after the season was over, I became a fan.  I'd also like to see him get another chance.  I think I saw Probst once say that he'd like to bring Ace back as well.  I'd like to see Ken and Crystal, too.  Although I'd be surprised if we ever saw anyone again from this season, since it was so unpopular (which wouldn't really bother me-there's other seasons I would rather see returning players come from that were better).

The big plus side to this season was the location.  I know Africa isn't popular with a lot of fans, and I get why.  But it's definitely a nice change from the islands, and I like seeing what they do in land locked placed (which is also why I liked Guatemala and the Amazon).

Edited January 13, 2017 by LadyChatts

[ljenkins782]

Quote

Maybe Kenny too, although I grew to dislike him towards the end because of the way that he kept insisting he had a deal with Bob that he knew he didn't have. Also he and Crystal and Randy were kind of shitty to Matty at Ponderosa. The poor kid just got there and was trying to eat his dinner and they wouldn't stop hounding him about why he voted them out. It wasn't as bad as the Onions freezing out Crystal and Kenny, but it wasn't nice either.

Yeah, they were really hammering him right out of the gate. And really, what did it matter by then? They were ALL sitting at Ponderosa, including Matty. Crystal in particular should have realized that it was pointless to second guess now, given that the Onions had just raked her over the coals for the same thing. 

As for Kenny, his entrance to Ponderosa is yet another example of the sheep-like behavior of Corinne and Charlie. Kenny goes bounding up to them to say hello and you can clearly see Corinne about to ignore him and then change tactics as soon as Marcus greeted him. 

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Now that I've finished the season, I don't see how any of the people who got to play again -- Corinne, Randy, and Sugar -- should have been invited back. Randy because he's not built to play a social game, Corinne because she's garbage, and Sugar, because as likeable as she was to Gabon viewers, her style of play was too chaotic to be successful a second time.

I especially hated to see Corinne back mainly because her glee at being a complete and total asshole is not behavior I want to see rewarded with a return appearance. She is irredeemable, IMO. 

Randy never had a chance and he makes me uncomfortable to watch. He seems like one of those guys who just never quite found people he fit in with and over time, quit trying and decided to pretend it was all his idea. There are glimmers of him seeming to want to join with the group before he switches back to curmudgeon-who-hates-everyone mode. It comes off as wanting to protect himself from rejection by rejecting everyone else first. 

Sugar...I don't know. She was so irritating in her one episode of HvVs that I can't remember what I thought of her in this season. 

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 But I think Marcus is, as always, the worst: "You kind of reap what you sow, and you can't expect that the whole argument of 'it's just a game' will make everything go away..."  Like what the fuck, Marcus.  What even is "everything" here?  What did she do except vote you out?  You were never aligned for one single second.  You were trying to vote out her own closest ally.  What right do you have to have your feelings hurt?  The dude just thinks the angels were supposed to come down out of the sky and present him the million-dollar check, here I am, Marcus, the Platonic ideal of Sole Survivor...

Yes, he did seem to expect that. He was supposed to walk over everyone's back, including his own closest allies to that number 1 spot and they were supposed to be thrilled to be part of his journey. Ugh, I couldn't stand him.

[Hera]

I've finished the season now. I have to say, this one was edited weird—it gave away that Susie was not the winner because she got practically no airtime. I was surprised to hear her be accused of never shutting up, because from what I saw, she hardly said anything at all. Also, Corinne's awfulness came out of nowhere. She got barely any air time and then all of a sudden, "I HATE SUSIE. WE NEED TO GET SUSIE OUT." And her clip in the March of Fallen Survivors was "ME ME ME ME ME" (which was really funny, because it came between Randy and Kenny talking about the questions they were going to ask at Final Tribal Council). It's also interesting, because in any sort of schoolyard pick or ranking challenge, Corinne was always among the last ranked/chosen. It reminded me of what I've read about bullies—they tend to be insecure about their own status in the group, so they pick on people who have even less status to reinforce the fact that they're above someone.

The jury seemed motivated almost entirely by personal feelings, which is different than what we've seen in recent seasons. It seemed like everyone acknowledged that Sugar had run the table, but because that meant she had backstabbed everyone on the jury, she got no votes—not that she even seemed to want them. It's not clear to me that she was even aware of how good a tactician she was. It showed me how much I've gotten used to members of the jury justifying their votes by insisting the person they voted for was the most strategic and deserving of their win. I'm not sure people's actual motivations have changed—I think people have always voted and will always vote for the person who makes them feel the best about their own game—but it's interesting to see people be so blatant about it.

I stand by my belief that every winner of Survivor deserves his or her win, by definition, and Bob clearly had a good social game, and gave good answers in Final Tribal Council, but I'd be really interested to see how he'd fare on a season without a guardian angel. Sadly, I think he's probably too old to want to go back out and try again.