Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S05.E11: Swan Song


  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

Seriously Emma...giving Excalibur to Not!Henry was a amateur move!

I like that this forum called Hook killing his father. Way to go! The episode played out pretty much as I thought in regards to Killian. I did not foresee him having a little half brother named Liam! Can we bring that character back in eventually?

I'm guessing we will definitely see Brennan in the UW. It's still up in the air as to whether he's Charon or not. Did he fake the death, perhaps? We didn't see the aftermath.

Seeing Emma kill Killian was awful to watch, but I knew she had to do it. Did not see Rumpel being a double-crosser again so soon, but I knew he would want the dark power back. He played Belle....again. Girl just can't win. I hope for better things for her.

I'm so excited for 5B. Why do we have to wait so long?

On a shallow note, Papa Hook had a sexy voice, did he not??

Link to comment

Since they showed a bedded Belle, I bet when they come back from The Underworld she'll be pregnant.

Please no. I'm afraid you're right.

Killian's brother is probably out in the world looking for revenge against Hook. :(

  • Love 2
Link to comment

Also, I didn't cry at all, I'm not sure why.

 

I spent the entire episode trying to figure out why I was so detached.

 

I think it comes down to the same two things as always.  They used the flashbacks to give us the insight as to why Hook had a turnaround at the end.  It would have meant more if he were struggling through the episode.  Even the scene where Hook at stops Emma's plan to kill herself by taking Excalibur off as his plan for revenge  must continue not Emma must live.  Then we had the Charming family existing as background with little actual interaction between Snow/Charming and Emma when they are about to be permanently separated.

 

There were a couple good scenes but the heavy emotional episodes are not something the show excels at. 

 

The preview actually looked promising.  That is really all that I'm sticking around for.

Edited by ParadoxLost
  • Love 4
Link to comment

Poor Belle. All her friends aren't telling her the truth, that she's sleeping with the DO, just so they can get Hook back. Not sure how I feel about that.

 

I was kinda creeped out that Gold slept with his wife after becoming the DARKEST DARK to ever Dark. But, there comes a point, when you have to give up hope for a character. It's her fate in life to constantly be deceived by the Dark One. 

 

Hey--maybe when Rumple comes back from Hell, Belle will have a baby, and they'll name him Baelfire. Just like Liam 2.0.

  • Love 15
Link to comment

I didn't mind that Papa Hook named his 3rd son Liam. In olden times, it was normal for parents to name a child after another one that had died as an infant. This situation gave me a similar feel. The time line was screwy though because it would have been much more than a century since Papa Hook abandoned Killian.

I loved Zelena's line about the wand that was something like 'the old man's withered knob'. LOL I will miss her inappropriate chattiness and snark.

Edited by pezgirl7
  • Love 2
Link to comment

I cried. I'm not even mad there wasn't a long con. Except sending Zelena away is going to bite them in the ass hardcore later.

Hook and Emma are my babies and I love them. I can't wait to go to the underworld. March is so far away though!

Edited by Watt
  • Love 2
Link to comment

You know, if I were them, the first thing I'd do after getting back from the Underworld?  

 

Figure out how to get Rumple to the town line and push him over.  

 

If he can easily get back, have someone physically hold him there, while Emma and Regina magic up some put-him-in-prison paperwork for a nice prison in magicless rest-of-the-world.

  • Love 3
Link to comment

I don't even know what I think about this episode. Right now, I'm comparing it to the episode we were sort of writing when speculating what would happen, and our various versions were more interesting. There's a writing exercise in which you make a list of 20 things that could happen at a given point in your story, and then you discard the first ten because they're the most obvious. You may have something worthwhile in the next ten. Well, we made it past 20 in coming up with cool things, and they stopped at one or two on the list and didn't bother to go further. Like with Hook's father -- he turns out not to be very interesting or important, and the reason he's around for Hook to meet ends up not really being part of the story, as with the reason he left and sold his sons into servitude. He's just a plot device. Ho hum.

 

But I was very impressed with the kid playing baby Killian. He must have done his homework and watched at least some of Colin playing adult Killian. There's this one thing Colin often does that's hard to describe -- there are times when it's like Hook's smile is having to come from a great distance, so it's like the rest of his face takes a long time doing the prep work for the smile before finally the smile actually makes it there. And this kid did exactly that, to the point it was almost eerie. It was the exact same expression Colin gets. So well done, kiddo. Can we get more wee Killian and wee Liam flashbacks, maybe see them working their way up on the ship and then jumping ship to join the navy?

 

Well, I was sort of right about Belle and Rumple.  They did get back together, right after he became the Dark One again.  I don’t know whether to laugh or shake my head.

It's getting to the point of self parody -- he's good, so she's out of there, but then at the moment when he's at his most evil, she decides he's good. Now I don't even know what the point of her deciding to leave was. If she came back, it wasn't to cover a maternity leave. It just makes her look wishy-washy and deluded. Oh dear, we're not going to get another pregnancy written in, are we?

 

Poor Belle. All her friends aren't telling her the truth, that she's sleeping with the DO, just so they can get Hook back. Not sure how I feel about that.

That is rather creepy, that they're letting her think he's some great hero when he's a worse villain than ever. And now they can stop with the idea of the Darkness being at fault while he's a good man, since he did that scheming with his supposedly pure heart. Maybe when Hook comes back, he'll be more than willing to lay a truth bomb on her. I think they owe it to her.

 

When Emma and Hook kissed before the sacrifice, in theory shouldn't that have been enough to get rid of the darkness?

I think it actually did, except instead of it disappearing, it was siphoned off by Rumple's spell. There was that bright flash like we get with the TLK, and then Emma changed. It was harder to tell if he changed since his clothes were pretty much the same, but the wound reappeared. So if Rumple hadn't interfered, the darkness would have been gone, but Hook would still have died, if not because of the Excalibur thrust then because of the original wound. Though I guess this proves that Emma's plan to save Hook never would have worked, because once they got the Darkness out of him and he wasn't immortal anymore, he would have died anyway.

  • Love 5
Link to comment

Emma's blackmailing Gold by threatening to tell Belle he's the evilest of evil again.

Sounds exactly like what Hook did in 4a. Hopefully it doesn't backfire on Emma like it did Hook.

Emma, if you lose a limb, don't let Rumple reattach it. It's probably infused with all the evil from your Dark Swan days.

  • Love 10
Link to comment

I just love Captain Swan. You know Hook is coming back, and yet those two sell it. 

 

I'm easier on Regina than most here. She has her faults, but for the most part she's trying to be a better person 

 

On the other side, I hate what the writers have done to Rumple. Robert is amazing, and sells Rumple well, but there's no connecting to the character any longer. He was sympathetic when you saw his backstory and he consistently tried to fight the darkness, but consistently failed. There was some sympathizing with the guy. But he's just embraced being a dick now. 

  • Love 3
Link to comment

When Hook was drawing in all the dark ones, the sword had his name on it.  Just as it finishes, I thought I saw Emma's name on the sword, before he turns to her to hand her the sword.  Did anyone else catch that?

Link to comment

I'm ok with Rump being the DO again, because what other purpose does he serve really?

 

I'm fine with Rumple as the Dark One.  But everything related to that falls apart when you look at it too closely.

 

Emma blackmails Rumple into helping by threatening to tell Bell what he did.  Then she proceeds to tell Charming, Snow, Regina, Hood, and Henry.  Rumple trusts them so much that he helps despite a half dozen people knowing.  There is totally something Rumple doesn't mention, like they can't come back.  Its more than a trade thing.

 

How is Belle going to maintain her willful ignorance in the face of both Emma and Hook overcoming the Darkness and Rumple choosing it?  I know she loves him anyways all the time in inexplicably, but that seems like a deal breaker.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

Ok, so Rumple is the resident Dark One in town again and no one thinks about warning Storybrooke about it ?

 

I mean, did he really think he could fool anyone ! Yeah, sure, try to pull the act for Belle once again, that worked pretty well all the times before, didnt it ?

Link to comment

When Hook was drawing in all the dark ones, the sword had his name on it.  Just as it finishes, I thought I saw Emma's name on the sword, before he turns to her to hand her the sword.  Did anyone else catch that?

Yes, it has had both of their names on it since Zelena showed Hook he was the Dark One too.

Link to comment

It was great! It was bad. There's no middle ground.

So let me get this straight: they make Emma dark and that's cool and all. It has potential. And it was all for nothing because after this half season nothing has changed. Well, Hook is dead. But everything else is pretty much the same.

Have no idea where Arthur went to. Don't really care. But could you imagine if we didn't have Merida at all this season so we could fix some Camelot stuff instead? Have no idea how Hook's daddy detour fits into the Cora Must Die timeline. Whatever.

And can anyone please explain how Gold became the Dark One again? All I got was he waved his hand over Excalibur and now he's dark. Seriously, as someone above said, PICK A DAMN SIDE! Are you dark or not? Do you love him or not?

I kind of don't mind how they left Belle behind. Good way to write her off so Emilie can have her baby and it doesn't become part of the storyline. Because as we witnessed tonight, babies are just props!

That all being said, Killian Jones. You sweet cinnamon roll. You have been a gift to the fandom this half season. You called Regina out for her crap. You made the Dark One happy. And when things got dark -- wink wink -- you were the one who stepped up to be the hero. Enjoy your time in Hell because you are too good for some of these morons in Storybrooke and you definitely make me wonder what potential you could've had in some other creators' hands.

  • Love 12
Link to comment

I don't mind Regina trying to talk Hook down on principle, because I felt like it was a neat callback to his revenge speech to her in The Evil Queen, but I dislike the way it was implemented with the weird shared secret and the others just standing there while she gave her speech. No one else had anything to say? Really? Hook's relationship with Regina is presented here as being second only to his relationship with Emma, and despite him sometimes being her lackey, I never got that impression. 

But I was very impressed with the kid playing baby Killian. He must have done his homework and watched at least some of Colin playing adult Killian. There's this one thing Colin often does that's hard to describe -- there are times when it's like Hook's smile is having to come from a great distance, so it's like the rest of his face takes a long time doing the prep work for the smile before finally the smile actually makes it there. And this kid did exactly that, to the point it was almost eerie. It was the exact same expression Colin gets. 

I noticed the same thing but couldn't put it into words. Well done!

 

And can anyone please explain how Gold became the Dark One again? All I got was he waved his hand over Excalibur and now he's dark. Seriously, as someone above said, PICK A DAMN SIDE! Are you dark or not? Do you love him or not?

He used Excalibur as a conduit and when Hook took all the power, Rumple somehow had it channeled back into himself. Yeah, I don't get it. So it's a new dagger since both parts of the sword were destroyed, right? Or did the top part suddenly teleport to him while it was impaled in Killian's chest? Why would he make a dagger when he's always wanted to be free from the control?

Edited by InsertWordHere
  • Love 3
Link to comment

How is Belle going to maintain her willful ignorance in the face of both Emma and Hook overcoming the Darkness and Rumple choosing it?  I know she loves him anyways all the time in inexplicably, but that seems like a deal breaker.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't expecting her to come back.

 

She needs to see him for the man he is. How many chances can you give someone? Has to stop at some point.

 

What really bugs the hell out of me is that they are very likely writing in Emilie's pregnancy. 

 

So Rumple is now an even more powerful Dark One than he's ever been, his wife comes back because she's a moron, and he gets a baby as a bonus! Look at him getting everything.

 

I thought it was bad with Regina, but rumple on, Rumple! Rumple on!

  • Love 3
Link to comment

Emma finds out Rumple is the Dark One again and decides to take Rumple with her as her bitch. I don't think she had time to tell Belle. I hope Emma takes her deal back and actually does tell Belle he's the Dark One because he did fuck her over AGAIN. He did this shit in S1.

  • Love 7
Link to comment

I wonder if the actors from the Camelot crew know their bit got cut? Didn't Merida's actress have an interview that mentioned stuff?

Their scene would probably after Hook dies and before they go to the UW. I wonder if they cut it because they thought it would have ruined the mood they had going.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I'm easier on Regina than most here. She has her faults, but for the most part she's trying to be a better person 

 

The line that struck me about Regina was when she said she could use the wand now because she believed in herself, the whole town believed in her.  Her motivation to be evil and better continues to be about how others treat her. 

  • Love 4
Link to comment

I loved Zelena's line about the wand that was something like 'the old man's withered knob'. LOL I will miss her inappropriate chattiness and snark.

 

OMG. I missed that inference! Hah

 

It's getting to the point of self parody -- he's good, so she's out of there, but then at the moment when he's at his most evil, she decides he's good. Now I don't even know what the point of her deciding to leave was. 

 

Well said. It's straight up self-parody now.

 

Ok, so Rumple is the resident Dark One in town again and no one thinks about warning Storybrooke about it ?

 

I guess since he was going with them to the UW. though how he plans to shut them up later... 

Link to comment

Ok, so Rumple is the resident Dark One in town again and no one thinks about warning Storybrooke about it ?

I just realised that it looks like Rumple goes to the UW with everyone, so what would prevent them from letting everyone, including Belle, know that Rumple is the DO again when they all get back? Unless Rumple thinks he can abandon them all there. Maybe Belle won't care because he still was able to be a "hero" by telling her to leave town. I swear this show has the weirdest definition of a hero.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

Their scene would probably after Hook dies and before they go to the UW. I wonder if they cut it because they thought it would have ruined the mood they had going.

 

Implying that they learned from the hatchet job they did on the last few minutes of last year's midseason finale.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

The line that struck me about Regina was when she said she could use the wand now because she believed in herself, the whole town believed in her.  Her motivation to be evil and better continues to be about how others treat her. 

 

But that doesn't make her  evil. That makes her a flawed insecure person. Which despite the snark, she obviously is. 

 

But even when Regina does things that aren't nice, a lot of times it's for the right reasons. (Trying to get Emma to talk for instance.) 

 

I don't think she's finished on her journey to really being redeemed, but she's at a point where she's always on the good guys side. 

  • Love 2
Link to comment
I just realised that it looks like Rumple goes to the UW with everyone
I guess since he was going with them to the UW. though how he plans to shut them up later...

 

Is he ? I didnt actually get that impression, I thought he was staying behind in town. I will have to rewatch.

Edited by Triskan
Link to comment

Is he ? I didnt actually get that impression, I thought he was staying behind in town. I will have to rewatch.

 

Rumple went with them.  I bet they do some variation of a villain plans to trade places with everyone who goes (except Rumple) which will force a different solution to get them back because I highly doubt they will follow through with Captain Swan sharing a heart.

Link to comment

Am I the only one that thinks they unintentionally just proved Regina was awful though?

They just contradicted the entire plot of 5x01 for crying out loud.

The whole point of that wand was that it had to be handled by a horrible, evil magic user to get it to work and balance the good crap of the wand. Therefore, what does that say about Regina???

I feel like it must have entirely slipped the writer's minds.

  • Love 17
Link to comment

I think it did slip their mind because it was never about Regina needing people to believe in her it had to do with needing someone evil. Hook practically said she went soft. Not to mention when she's finally able to work the wand it's her taking a mother away from their child. How am i not suppose to see that as awful?

  • Love 11
Link to comment

Am I the only one that thinks they unintentionally just proved Regina was awful though?

They just contradicted the entire plot of 5x01 for crying out loud.

The whole point of that wand was that it had to be handled by a horrible, evil magic user to get it to work and balance the good crap of the wand. Therefore, what does that say about Regina???

I feel like it must have entirely slipped the writer's minds.

 

I don't think it slipped their minds.  I think they were going for Regina wields dark magic but it didn't work before because she didn't believe she wouldn't succumb but now with our theme of you can choose the type of person you want to be even with the darkness filling you that she can use her dark magic and still be on the heroes side.

Edited by ParadoxLost
  • Love 2
Link to comment

Well I am disappointed that Killian did end up killing his father (everyone here totally called it), I am slightly gratified to know I was right that the reason was partly having to do with Liam. Dude loved his brother so much. 

  • Love 6
Link to comment

Well I am disappointed that Killian did end up killing his father (everyone here totally called it), I am slightly gratified to know I was right that the reason was partly having to do with Liam. Dude loved his brother so much. 

He really did. It's the most consistent thing about him. Well basically he loves hard.

  • Love 9
Link to comment

My problem with Once is always in the details.  There are exceptions, but for the most part I like the basic broad strokes of the story they're trying to tell, I just don't think they tell it very well most of the time because they pace it poorly and focus on the wrong things and skip over much needed character beats that would tie everything together more.  On a big scale level, a lot of it doesn't work.  But they are good at the small moments.

 

Like the way Killian tells Emma "It's OK" when she's gearing up to stab him.  That little whisper was more affecting to me than the grand "let me die a hero" declaration.  When Killian's body is being taken away and Snow and Charming are comforting Emma, Snow mouths something that looks like "I'm sorry, baby".  That was more touching to me than Snow's speechifying about giving up and spending her final moments with her family.  

 

It's the little moments that still get to me, and it's the little moments the writers seem to care so little about most of the time., so they end up failing the story potential.

Edited by CatMack
  • Love 21
Link to comment

Well I am disappointed that Killian did end up killing his father (everyone here totally called it), I am slightly gratified to know I was right that the reason was partly having to do with Liam. Dude loved his brother so much. 

I'm not. His father was a scumbag. He traded his sons for a row boat. He basically turned his boys into free child labor, gave them a life of servitude. People like that don't deserve freedom, and shouldn't be making other children. He didn't give them a chance.

 

I'm not as enamored with Liam as some are, but when he asked about him, all I could think was "how dare you?" because really, what gives him the right to ask about his eldest son? Or look all excited to see Hook all grown up?

 

Dude, here's a stadium, take several seats.

 

I hope we don't revisit the Camelot characters in 5B. There were so much holes with that. So much stuff left up in the air. Like Merlin, his weird messages, and brewing the dark curse. 

 

Because we really don't need to know anything about that.

Edited by YaddaYadda
  • Love 8
Link to comment

Thinking about it more, the fact that Killian was sold in servitude by his father also explains his extremely negative reaction to being controlled - by Rumple through his heart or by Emma through the Excalibur. He had the power of choice taken away from him once in his life and couldn't bear to have it happen again... especially by the woman that he loved. 

  • Love 16
Link to comment

Overall I liked the episode.  

 

I thought Hook got Excalibur away from Emma way too easily.  But I guess she was already emotional and upset so maybe that explains it.  Wow, patricide - didn't see that coming.  But it shows how obsessed he was with his revenge.

 

I'm ok with Rumple as the Sum Total Darkest of Dark Ones and it fit well with the theme of the episode about being "the man I am".  I had a feeling that his pure heart really wouldn't amount to much.  And he is much more interesting to watch as a villain.  I am looking forward him meeting Milah, Pan, and Cora in the Underworld.  And by the way, loved the running gag of people constantly coming into his shop despite his protests about being closed - Rumple, have you never heard of a deadbolt lock?

 

Poor Belle, her villain radar is non-existent.  Or maybe as others have suggested she (consciously or not) loves the darkness a little too much.  I'm wondering what she is going to think when she wakes up to find Rumple gone without saying goodbye - unless he left a note such as "Dear Belle, I'm off to the Underworld to help Emma save Hook, just another selfless act for you to admire, see you soon sweetie."  

 

I was sorry to see Zelena tornadoed back to Oz, but knowing how easy it seems to be these days to travel between realms I'm sure she will be back very soon.  I can't help but think she would fit right in if she went to the Underworld, making quips and showing Dark Ones how to be fashionably evil.

 

By the way, am I the only one who wishes they would have put the darkness into Merida and sent her on her way, never to return?  I can't help but think she would be much more interesting as a villain.

 

So the Fairies will be taking care of the babies; I'm glad they at least tried to explain to us that someone would be taking care of them. How come they almost never ask the Fairies for magical help?  Can't the fairies go to the Underworld with the heroes to fight evil?  They are really underutilized as characters.  And where are the dwarves?  And Granny?  And Archie?  I want to see more of the townsfolk like we used to in season 1.  

  • Love 1
Link to comment

This episode was "quit the show" levels of stupid. I just despise it for some reason.

 

One of the few rewarding details was the mention of Rumple and Regina's victims. I'm surprised that was even in there.

Edited by KingOfHearts
  • Love 8
Link to comment
Writers, when we wanted Henry to go to hell- this is NOT what we meant!

 

Have hope!  They can always just leave him behind!  Of course, why Emma would be ok with Henry joining them when earlier she was ready to cover his ears to keep him from hearing Rumpel explain the Dark Ones and what they were doing I don't understand.  Regina I get, as she probably thinks Henry is safer with her in literal Hell than in Storybrooke where he can live his life and the fairies can protect him.  

 

Am I the only one that thinks they unintentionally just proved Regina was awful though?

 

Right there with you my friend.  In the season premiere they made a big deal about how Regina couldn't use the wand because she's no longer evil enough, thus bringing Zelena into the fold, yet tonight she had no trouble wielding it (and Robin's dumb enough not to pick up on that).  Combine that with her projecting her lust for power onto Emma (which was proven false each time it was brought up), and I hope we might get to see her return to being the Big Bad.

 

I don't think there's any chance that we're supposed to see Belle as anything other than pathetic (in a sad and naive way, not in a disparaging way) for running back to be with Rumpel while he keeps his reinstated Dark One status from her.  If all the speculation over the years is right, and Carlyle only signed for five seasons, then this may be setting up Rumpel's final downfall.  I'm not to fussed about no one telling Belle yet since it looks like they went straight to the lake after Emma threatened him but they need to tell her first thing when they return.  Serial killer groupie she may be, but she still deserves to know.

 

And I LOVE that Emma blackmailed Rumpel.  Before this season started one of the consistent discussions revolved around how Emma should use her time as Dark One to finally think of HERSELF and what SHE wants rather than constantly focusing on the needs and welfare of the ungrateful asshats (save Hook) she interacts with each day.  It's about damn time that Emma says, "I found a way to save Killian and I'm doing it".  Rumpel didn't have to agree but, as Hook pointed out, he values his power more than he ever will Belle so he's going along with it to avoid having another (short lasting, come on Rump you of all people know that she gets over her anger with you less than a day later) fight with her.  The only misstep there was Emma not making Rumpel go first on the water so that she could monitor him and guarantee he wouldn't stay behind, but he did follow her so I guess he maybe fears her magic more than I thought.

 

The Buffy was strong in this episode.  I like Hook and his relationship with Emma just fine but I'm not a wreck like I was back when Becoming Part 2 first aired, so I'm fine.  Of course, I don't think anything has wrecked me like that episode, so that's not a knock on what Once did.  Now, if they had busted out the McLachlan my residual Buffy feels would have bubbled to the surface and I would have reacted as I cannot listen to that song without remembering how I felt watching that episode unfold.  I am eternally grateful that they didn't go there. 

 

I did roll my eyes at Emma quoting her parents but I also laughed at how in your face it was.  We still haven't seen the third "as you wish" so I'm starting to think that will come from Emma shortly before her and Hook have their proper TLK.  I agree that we saw one tonight, removing the Darkness from Emma and Hook.  I think the rainbow only happens if the curse that's being broken doesn't have a visual effect.  If, say, Hook falls under a Sleeping Curse at some point and Emma kisses him, then we'll see the rainbow.  Removing the Darkness already has a visual effect so the rainbow isn't necessary. 

  • Love 6
Link to comment

I forgot to mention it but they went in a whole other direction with the Underworld than I expected.

 

Please let this be a parody of "The Warriors".  The Storybrookers trying to navigate their way across town and coming across Cora's gang, Pan's gang, etc. all in stupid costumes.   There was so much more late 70s post apocalyptic movie in that promo compared to Greek mythology.

  • Love 4
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...