S02.E09: Ten Thirteen

[Save Yourself]

And now for something completely different...

 

(Please bear with me here, because I know it's stupid.)

 

So... hello Olivia Newton-John! Here's the thing about that, I was 8 years old in 1980 and therefore I'm quite familiar with ONJ, as she was absolutely owning the Top 40 charts at the time. Must have heard "Magic" about a thousand times back then, but probably only once or twice over the last 35(!!!!!!) years. And so this show starts playing it, and immediately I'm all "Whoa, I know that song. But I'll be damned if I can put my finger on it." And for about the next 10 seconds, right up until ONJ started singing, I had convinced myself that it was some obscure deep-track song by.... Talking Heads.

Big Livvy fan, have seen her many times in concert and I was 7 when 'Magic' came out. ONJ is actually a National Living Treasure here in Aus which is pretty funny! I thought they used that song because it was from Xanadu and the place where they had the soon-to-be-stoned guy had a roller skating rink sign up and old skates behind him. When the song started I thought it was a really odd choice, can't think why else other than the rink that they'd have it because the lyrics make no sense in that scene 'I've always been in your mind, etc'. Even if it is because of the rink that's really bizarre because I doubt many people would think of that considering what a bomb Xanadu was. Or someone is a massive ONJ fan and they are just throwing her songs in there randomly!

[Save Yourself]

-Multiple, coordinated b&e's

-Harrassment

-Stalking

A good prosecutor only needs two of those offenses for a RICO case.

None of those crimes actually fit under the RICO Act, it is a very specific law and is for more serious offences, ostensibly to bring down the 'King Pin' of an organisation. It takes a long time to build a case so given the GR have only been around for 2 years and seem to be very good at going under the radar a RICO case would be very unlikely.

[Save Yourself]

After last week, I admit this show had a high bar to reach and, they didn't. But still this was a FINE episode and a solid origin story.  That said, imho the problem with Meg is that story. Losing your mom who is old isn't all that compelling. Based on my experience had their been a departure the day after my mom's death I probably wouldn't have cared and maybe would have been comforted.  That said, I have seen the phenomina that people feel "entitled" and as people reinforce that entitlement people go more and more off the rails. I see that happening with Meg.

 

I did enjoy seeing a bad Meg. I felt like there was some hint in Liv Tyler's acting in last year's finale. When Matt found her beat up she had this evil look on her face like she didn't care.  I was compelled watching her.

 

Though, my one question, what is Meg doing? Assume she blows the bridge. So what? They will just build a new one. I find it hard to believe there is only ONE bridge, I am sure there are several more that are for Gov't use only.  Where is that gov't agency of alcohol tobacco and cults that took out Holy Wayne? You would think they would be all over the GR.

 

 

That is the one thing I liked. Cults imho always go this way becuase people always join for reasons other than pure intentions. Usually anger. And then corrupt from within, discarding the rules to achieve their own adgenda.  I could see that. GR wasn't particularly organized anyway.

 

Tom is an idiot. He should have left and got the police no matter what was in that trailer. He should have known it wasn't a good thing anyway you looked at it.

Meg's mum only looked around 65 which isn't very old (in first world countries women live to around 85 on average) and also seemed very healthy so it would be a massive shock for Meg for her mum to suddenly drop dead. I don't understand what you mean about being 'entitled'? Do you mean her feeling entitled to grieve?

[Clanstarling]

Meg's ringtone is the chirping noise in the Murphys' house.  I suspect Evie will be giving her folks a call before the big event.

Good catch!

 

 

Did Meg tell Tommy that she wanted to get him pregnant? I listened to that part twice, and that's what I heard both times. Very confusing!

I took it to mean either that she was just messing with him, or that she's slipped a cog and believes that in the new world order she thinks she's creating that she is God and can flip the switch by making a man pregnant. In my opinion it was too deliberate (she said it twice, didn't she?) to just be a weird way of saying she wanted him to knock her up.

 

After some thought, I thought Evie's point about eating carrot sticks (that you can't cry when eating them) spoke to her own personal despair and experience. So although I didn't connect the dots with the silences in the car until  nearly the end, I wasn't too shocked when she was inside the trailer, or that she was a convert.

 

Does anyone know who the main GR woman was who interrogated Meg? She looked so familiar, but I couldn't place her. IMDB didn't seem to have that character listed.

Edited December 1, 2015 by clanstarling

[spaceghostess]

Does anyone know who the main GR woman was who interrogated Meg? She looked so familiar, but I couldn't place her. IMDB didn't seem to have that character listed.

Wasn't that the actress who played Tara's mom on True Blood?

 

ETA: Yup, it was her: Adina Porter.

Edited December 1, 2015 by spaceghostess

[Save Yourself]

Good catch!  I took it to mean either that she was just messing with him, or that she's slipped a cog and believes that in the new world order she thinks she's creating that she is God and can flip the switch by making a man pregnant. In my opinion it was too deliberate (she said it twice, didn't she?) to just be a weird way of saying she wanted him to knock her up. After some thought, I thought Evie's point about eating carrot sticks (that you can't cry when eating them) spoke to her own personal despair and experience. So although I didn't connect the dots with the silences in the car until  nearly the end, I wasn't too shocked when she was inside the trailer, or that she was a convert. Does anyone know who the main GR woman was who interrogated Meg? She looked so familiar, but I couldn't place her. IMDB didn't seem to have that character listed.

I thought Meg said that to show her dominance over Tom and to demasculate him - as in 'I've raped you, I can do what I want with you, I'm treating you like a male rapist would treat a woman, you're my bitch now' sort of thing. I don't know if that makes sense!

GR interrogator - She played Lettie Mae on True Blood. (The actor's name is Adina Porter).

Wasn't that the actress who played Tara's mom on True Blood?

You beat me to it!!! :)

[scrb]

So they must have staged the disappearance of the girls.  And probably did something with the natural gas deposits to cause the earthquake and the draining of the lake.

 

For what end?

 

Girls don't have to disappear for the GR to blow up the bridge, unless the girls figure in whatever event Meg has in store, like maybe a sacrifice?

 

Get the town panicked about looking for the girls and then put them out on display before or as part of the big bang?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

At this point, I'm having trouble figuring out whether Tommy's fucked up beyond repair or just really, really stupid. We already knew he was susceptible to cult thinking, but if he was so offended at the possibility of accidentally starting a cult of his own (which was what was happening as a result of his hug-athons, which he realized, even if Laurie refused to), why was it so easy for Meg to lure him? I can't believe he'd believe that this woman, his rapist, has anything good in store for him.

  Seriously. I'm not sure if we are supposed to think poor Tommy is just so confused & lost or if the kid is dumb. I'm starting to think the kid is just bricks.

I thought Meg said that to show her dominance over Tom and to demasculate him - as in 'I've raped you, I can do what I want with you, I'm treating you like a male rapist would treat a woman, you're my bitch now' sort of thing. I don't know if that makes sense!

It makes sense to me and I saw it that way too.

I don't really understand what the heck happened to Meg to make her a psychopath or how she became a leader, but I think Liv Tyler is killing it.

When I realized there was a group of GR members outside of Jarden, I immediately thought "okay, that's surely where the missing girls are." And yep, there they were.

In the very first episode there's a scene where Evie and her mom are signing (and I think maybe whispering as they sign?) while John passes by the open door of the room they're sitting in. Anyone know what they were talking about? I feel like my captions may have even said what the mom was saying, but I don't remember. I feel like it could give us some hints as far as what's up with Evie.

[Tim Thomason]

The GR seems to act like terrorist cells, each "house" being its own independent entity with little oversight (possibly just those three exasperated women). The Mapleton House suffered a whole lot in Season 1, enough that Meg seems to have been propelled into the leadership. I'm certain her trick with the grenade was a dud meant to 'wake up' the children to their nonimportance or whatever. And yeah, that should lead to police repercussions.

 

I have absolutely no idea how Megan drained that lake (the plastic explosives?). It could be a coincidence, which would be amazing and a major boon to the GR cause. And if it was faked, surely the FBI or state police would've figured that out in about ten minutes of investigating. I guess it'll go with the psychics and zombie birds, showing us that there is something supernatural in this world outside of October 14th.

 

If this show does get a Season Three, it'll probably set up shop elsewhere. Season 1 was Mapleton, Season 2 was Miracle, and Season 3 will see the Garveys heading off to a new locale and somehow bringing Matt, Mary, the Murphys, and the Guilty Remnant with them. My vote is for Australia.

[RedheadZombie]

Even with the reveal at the end showing Evie and her friends, this one just didn't engage me as the rest of the season has done.  Mind you, I did manage to watch which is better than I can say for the Matt episode.  Speaking of Matt, I hope he gets a clue and is able to tell someone that Meg has come back.

 

I've always been underwhelmed by Liv Tyler's acting.    It's all puppy dog eyes and baby doll voice.  I don't think she's strong enough to successfully carry an episode, and it doesn't help that she's paired with Tom, who does well at evoking sadness, but is otherwise a weaker actor himself.

 

Oh, did everyone here know that Tommy wasn't Kevin's biological son? Again, I missed most of season one so I don't know if it was ever mentioned.

 

It was revealed on last season's episode, The Garveys at their Best.  Tom had gone to his bio dad's house, and the bio dad wanted nothing to do with him.  Kevin showed up to get Tom, and threatened the bio dad to stay away from "my kid".  If you haven't seen that episode, you should try to.  It took place on the day of the departure.  Jill was a sweet girl, and she and Tom were very close.  It also showed Kevin having sex with the stranger, and Laurie watching the ultrasound screen as her fetus disappeared.

 

Also, wasn't that Betty Buckley as Meg's mom? Saw her in Sunset Boulevard in London a million years ago. She was great.

 

Whenever I see Betty Buckley, I think of this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsA1mmbsxxc

 

Nah, I don't think blowing up the bridge is her long game. I mean, she may do that just for kicks, but she's here for something way worse. She's going to parade those "departed" girls out in front of the town, only to have them sacrifice themselves in some horrible, disgusting way. That'll teach Jarden, TX to call itself "Miracle". The town's very own, angelic, precious children, volunteering to end their lives for the GR's mission. Meg wants to show the world, starting with this town, that there are no miracles; there is no hope.

 

I think she definitely plans on killing the girls.  From her conversation with Matt, it's very clear she hates Miracle because it was spared the pain and suffering of the departure that "the rest of us" experienced.  Someone needs to remind this creature that she didn't suffer a departure either. 

 

Yeah, honestly, I got nothing from Megs backstory. It didn't make me feel for her at all. I remember actually feeling for her in the pilot and most of season one since we knew so little about her and the pilot with the guilty ones following her and her husband to be around, I felt for her. Just like I feel for everyone that the guilty ones followed around. Even this season, she was the "cult leader" now but I was still like, well something terrible must have happened to her to make her this way and then this episode, nope. She was just doing coke when her mother died and her mom's death didn't even have anything to do with October 14th as it happened the day before. It just doesn't quite make sense. I do wonder if she stopped doing drugs after her mother died?

 

I also want to know what her Mom said, but like others have pointed out and as we were told, it probably wasn't important. Her mom didn't knew she was going to die and when her Mom was about to start the story, it sounded more along the lines of "I ran into so and so yesterday and she asked about your wedding", it doesn't seem like it was something that would be life-changing. 

 

I felt nothing from Meg's story.  She was a coke snorting spoiled princess who didn't bother paying her mother the four hundred dollars she owed, until she was embarrassed into it.  And LT's acting just didn't cut it in that entire death scene.  She snorts coke, yet has the energy of a slow moving snail.  And she seemed more puzzled at seeing her mother on the floor than upset.  Then she spends the next two years self-indulgently searching out psychics to tell her the big secret.  Her fiancé seemed like a saint, so of course she treated him badly.  And then the scene with the psychic - she goes from spitting in his hand with lady-like reluctance, to sneering and calling him fucking bullshit, then back to baby doll whisper. 

 

Meg is a total train wreck and I don't think I get her motivation. I was shocked by the Evie reveal, and can't stop wondering how she and Meg stayed in touch to plan all of this, if the conversation we saw was the entirety of their conversation when they met.

 

I actually think her motivation is unrelated to her typical GR machinations.  This has nothing to do with making people remember 10/14.  She's under the illusion that everyone in Miracle is deliriously happy because they didn't lose anyone in the departure.  And even though she didn't lose anyone that day either, she's determined to make these people suffer.  And what a fucking hypocrite.  She talks constantly.  And as awful as Patti was, no one was raped under her leadership (that we know of).

 

I found it interesting when Matt reminded her that he had made posters of her mother, and that he was just trying to maker her feel again.  He then apologized for being her "living reminder".  She did not like that, which is amusing since this is supposedly her purpose in life now.

 

Lastly, Meg was called Meg all first season, but now everyone, including Matt, refers her to Megan.

[txhorns79]

And as awful as Patti was, no one was raped under her leadership (that we know of).

 

I don't know.  People were stoned to death under Patti's leadership, so I guess it depends on your view of killing people versus raping them. 

 

 

I actually think her motivation is unrelated to her typical GR machinations.

 

I agree.  She's just a deeply disturbed person (more so than the normal GR member) whose more interested in using violence (or the fear of violence) to harm people, than anything connected to the Departure.

[WearyTraveler]

Yeah, sometimes a psychopath is just a psychopath 

[Trick Question]

I've always been underwhelmed by Liv Tyler's acting.    It's all puppy dog eyes and baby doll voice.  I don't think she's strong enough to successfully carry an episode, and it doesn't help that she's paired with Tom, who does well at evoking sadness, but is otherwise a weaker actor himself.

I've also been pretty indifferent to Tyler's acting...before Sunday night, I would've argued her best role was probably in Aerosmith videos.  And yet she scared the crap out of me in this episode; kudos to Tyler for a terrifically creepy performance.  As for Zylka...yeah, I've got nothing.  If I'm putting together a Leftovers cast power rankings based on acting ability, it goes...

 

***top tier***

1. Carrie C***

2. Ann Dowd

3. Justin Theroux

4. Regina King

5. Christopher Eccleston

***limited by screentime or lack of material tier***

6. Amy Brenneman

7. Kevin Carroll

8. Amanda Warren (she was so good!  We couldn't have gotten even one brief scene with the ol' mayor this season?)

9. Liv Tyler

10. Michael Gaston (good actor given a nothing role)

NA: Janel Moloney, for obvious reasons

 

Where the show has dropped the ball to some extent is with the younger actors.  The Murphy kids seem interesting but they've had a lack of screentime.  Qualley and Zylka aren't very good.  Amy, Christine and the twins from last season were all so forgettable that I literally just remembered them now when I looked up the cast on IMDB to make sure I didn't forget anyone.  Not sorry they didn't end up making the trip to Miracle with the rest of the show this season.

[quangtran]

Yeah, honestly, I got nothing from Megs backstory. It didn't make me feel for her at all.

I get the feeling that we aren't supposed to feel for Meg and that her backstories isn't supposed to justify her current actions. A death in the family is often considered a tragic but inevitable event that everyone has to go through, yet I've read so many real life cases of people who choose to throw their lives away because of this one death. I don't personally understand it, but maybe it's a good thing that I don't.

 

Weirdly enough, it was Matt and Nora who turned her from a sad GR member into an angry one, what with the hose spraying and that "come home Meg" flier. Them resisting and fighting back so much only led her to dig her heels in even more.

 

Where the show has dropped the ball to some extent is with the younger actors.  The Murphy kids seem interesting but they've had a lack of screentime.  Qualley and Zylka aren't very good.

I think Qualley and Zylka are fine, but when a show has to service at almost ten strong actors within ten episodes, I'm not surprised that the youngling's stories keep getting cut (they cut out Tommy and Christina accidentally recruiting a soldier in season 1 and Jill's solo adventure in season 2).

 

As for Liv Tyler, I believed her performance 100%, and that say's a lot given that I wasn't convinced with her being able to chop that tree in season 1. I used to wonder how a women who was so unusually gorgeous can be so easily forgotten in season 1, but this season she's been more charismatic.

[Clanstarling]

Wasn't that the actress who played Tara's mom on True Blood?

 

ETA: Yup, it was her: Adina Porter.

 Thank you! I didn't recognize her w/o that terrible wig.

 

I thought Meg said that to show her dominance over Tom and to demasculate him - as in 'I've raped you, I can do what I want with you, I'm treating you like a male rapist would treat a woman, you're my bitch now' sort of thing. I don't know if that makes sense!

GR interrogator - She played Lettie Mae on True Blood. (The actor's name is Adina Porter).

You beat me to it!!! :)

 I think it makes a lot of sense!

 

I get the feeling that we aren't supposed to feel for Meg and that her backstories isn't supposed to justify her current actions.

 

As for Liv Tyler, I believed her performance 100%, and that say's a lot given that I wasn't convinced with her being able to chop that tree in season 1. I used to wonder how a women who was so unusually gorgeous can be so easily forgotten in season 1, but this season she's been more charismatic.

HAH, loved the chop the tree bit. I've never been a fan of Liv Tyler, and never thought she was much of an actress. But I think she was completely believable in this episode, so I've got to give her credit. She apparently does psycho pretty well. I also agree that the backstory wasn't really to justify her behavior - but to show she was self-centered from the start. Edited December 1, 2015 by clanstarling

[A Boston Gal]

HAH, loved the chop the tree bit. I've never been a fan of Liv Tyler, and never thought she was much of an actress. But I think she was completely believable in this episode, so I've got to give her credit. She apparently does psycho pretty well. I also agree that the backstory wasn't really to justify her behavior - but to show she was self-centered from the start.

Exactly...she couldn't even get through one lunch with a perfectly lovely Betty Buckley Mom without having to take a coke break? Feh.

 

Is it silly of me to wonder about how Meg was able to get in contact with Evie after that one brief carrot encounter, since she got back on the bus out of Jarden directly afterwards?

Edited December 1, 2015 by A Boston Gal

[stillshimpy]

I agree with several others here: I don't think we're meant to feel sympathy.  

 

An explanation of her behavior and motives is not the same thing as excusing them.  She is a disturbed person and she's exploiting a mass tragedy to work out her own emotional wounds.  However, she seems to be to two small steps away from being completely vicious at the best of times: as soon as the palm reader told her the truth "this will not be something that heals you" , she began to lash out at him until he shut her down by proving he had some real insight.  

 

But in that moment before he said "Walnuts" I thought Liv Tyler was as terrifying as Hannibal and I do agree that it was some of her best acting, in her entire career.  There's just a moment there where you can see her turn from needy and (her twisted version of) hopeful to deciding to just start slicing and dicing the guy for not being who she wanted him to be.  

 

I think Meg works as a character specifically because of how she looks and what she sounds like.  Whenever an actor's beauty is brought up, it's such a subjective thing, but I think many people (myself and my husband included) think she's really quite beautiful and fragile looking.  She looks like a doll and her voice really adds to that affect.   So when she then becomes this insanely vicious creature without altering her voice or facial expression significantly, it relies on very subtle cues.  I felt like she pulled them off and she was horrifying and terrifying. 

 

Now, someone was stoned and killed under Patti's watch, but they volunteered to do so as far as we could tell. That doesn't make it okay, just it seemed like she volunteered to be a sacrifice to draw attention to the GR and make it seem like they were being victimized, thereby needing police protection.  

 

Stoning is HORRIBLE way to die and there's a freaking guy at the gate with a gun.  She had that kid murdered in the most horrible manner possible, simply because she could. 

 

Yeah, I don't think we're meant to feel sorry for her, or even compassion.  Unlike with Patti, who was shaped and molded -- a made monster -- Meg appears to have always had a streak of monster in her that she largely got away with because of how delicate and fragile she looks.  As for so fully losing her shit after her mother died, she probably had what passed for genuine love for her mother in her stunted way, but she was also clearly pretty troubled.  

 

Her intended had a lucky escape, basically.  

 

 

 

Is it silly of me to wonder about how Meg was able to get in contact with Evie after that one brief carrot encounter, since she got back on the bus out of Jarden directly afterwards?

 

I just assumed she just went back the same way we saw her initially enter the area: as a tourist and contacted her again.  

 

One thing I did appreciate in the vein of dark humor?  Psycho Meg's the only one with enough sense to say "Oh for fuck's sake, just talk." 

Edited December 1, 2015 by stillshimpy

[larapu2000]

Big Livvy fan, have seen her many times in concert and I was 7 when 'Magic' came out. ONJ is actually a National Living Treasure here in Aus which is pretty funny! I thought they used that song because it was from Xanadu and the place where they had the soon-to-be-stoned guy had a roller skating rink sign up and old skates behind him. When the song started I thought it was a really odd choice, can't think why else other than the rink that they'd have it because the lyrics make no sense in that scene 'I've always been in your mind, etc'. Even if it is because of the rink that's really bizarre because I doubt many people would think of that considering what a bomb Xanadu was. Or someone is a massive ONJ fan and they are just throwing her songs in there randomly!

Um, I'm pretty sure it's Lindelof that's either an ONJ fan or a Xanadu fan-there's an episode of Lost where Hurley and Sawyer watch Xanadu.  Which, in my opinion, is one of the most horribly awesome movies ever made, lol.  

 

I agree that we're not supposed to relate to Meg.  It would have sucked to have everyone forget about your own loss when the world suffered such a big one immediately afterward, but her reaction screams narcissist or sociopath, not incredibly sad and lonely.  Tom is incredibly sad and lonely, and that's how Meg was able to manipulate him-because I'm sure it's not the easiest thing to manipulate someone you've raped, doused in gasoline, and almost set on fire.  Yet she did.  Yikes.

 

The problem with Tom's storyline last season was that he was separate from the main action.  That's still the problem this season.  

[A Boston Gal]

 

I just assumed she just went back the same way we saw her initially enter the area: as a tourist and contacted her again.  

 

One thing I did appreciate in the vein of dark humor?  Psycho Meg's the only one with enough sense to say "Oh for fuck's sake, just talk." 

LOL! You know that if Meg had the chance to redesign the GR, not being able to talk would be the first thing to go.

Edited December 1, 2015 by A Boston Gal

[cpierce]

I can relate to Meg's becoming a monster. I lost my mother last year after she spent eight months in the hospital. She was 60. I was there at the hospital day-in-day-out AND I took care of her business AND I took care of cleaning her house in the hopes that someday she might come home, while my sister was too busy or had more important things to do, like go party with her boyfriend. She wouldn't even commit to one night a week, and I didn't like my mother being alone at the hospital at night.

And after the doctors told me and my younger sister that we should consider withdrawing care, because she was never going to breathe on her own, or speak, or walk, or anything else, my selfish sister- who has always been the pretty one, always gets attention, always did things that got ME in trouble, and has always been very spoiled- decided that it wasn't fair, and that she wanted to fight and that she knew deep down that our mother wanted to live, and considered shipping her off to a long term care facility in Brownsville (y'all that's like eight ours away), the only place in Texas that would take her. When I asked me sister, "are you going to quit your job and move down there? Because she'll die of a broken heart!" Her response was an incredulous, "You just want to KILL HER!!" Still, she continued to visit and help me exactly the same amount while carrying on this cruel treatment of our mother.

My mother had no money and no will. She had a house. And it was falling apart. After her needlessly long and drawn-out death, I continued working on the house, making small repairs, throwing garbage away (my mother was a hoarder), and there was a lot of things that were utterly useless or had sentimental value only to my mother. I started in on one of the sheds, and lo and behold, I found all my sister's junk from high school. I SHOULD have thrown that crap away but I didn't (She's a grown woman with her her own house; why is she storing junk in her mommy's shed anyway?) and I sold my mother's van because it was in the way AND it was inoperable. My sister found out and threw a fit, and she had the locks changed on the house. The, she stages a scene out on the curb with the rest of the junk: she took items from inside the house- photo albums, my mother's paintings, things that I and my family would have wanted- and tossed them on the curb too, and then she called my family and "told" on me, so they were all witnesses to what she claimed I had done. (and it wasn't the first time she has staged a scene in support of a lie.)

I know it seems kinda trivial, but she stooped to a new low, and made me out to be some heartless monster in the eyes of my family, and for what reason? Because she feels guilty about the way she treated our mother when she was sick before the hospital, when she was in the hospital, and probably for drawing out her inevitable death for so long. She is a manipulator and a brat to begin with, but our mother's death is something that has completely changed her. It's been 18 months and she still has the picture of our mother's coffin as her facebook picture, if a coffin as your fb pic isn't weird enough in the first place. She lives in my neighborhood and we have mutual friends, and now she's been re-inventing history, talking about how much time she spent at the hospital while I was out getting drunk on the streets or some damn thing. What's crazy, is that they seem to believe her, even though there's is a timeline on facebook of ME being there posting updates every damn day! So, people are easy to manipulate because they have short memories and like to avoid confrontation.

So yeah, I guess I can "get" Meg becoming a monster, I watched my sister become one. And it was borne out of guilt, well, that and a little sociopathy to begin with.

[BaseOps]

Not the strongest of the season, but I did really enjoy it. I was wondering how Meg would fit into everything. I didn't really have a big problem believing that she had accumulated a group who wanted action outside of what the GR sanctions. I imagine if you're part of that group, you're already quite damaged and not totally in the right frame of mind. Add onto that the fact that they're really doing nothing so Meg was able to tap into a section of the GR that want action. We knew they were radical from the rape scene several weeks back, if not last season's finale. 

 

I wish that we had seen more of Kevin's journey this season overall. I think this show handles fragmented storytelling much better than most other shows that attempt it, but the one thing I felt like I missed this year was a central storyline or character. In season 1, that was Kevin. During the first half of this season, the story seemed to focus more on Nora, and the detours have been sort of all over the place. 

 

Still, I think it's been a great season and the story has been a really great slow burn for the most part. I'm eager to see how the hell it'll all come together in an hour next week. 

[scrb]

One could argue that the GR was the worst part of the show, a gimmick they should have "left behind" when they did the reboot.

 

But this show has to have outlandish events so why not bring them back to "take it up a notch" when they're out of story ideas.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Ham Grenade
With The Leftovers in full spiritual self-delight, Meg arrives to blow it all up. Thank God! (And Liv Tyler.)

[editorgrrl]

I thought they used ["Magic" by Olivia Newton-John] because it was from Xanadu, and the place where they had the soon-to-be-stoned guy had a roller skating rink sign up and old skates behind him.

I can't think why else they'd have it because the lyrics make no sense in that scene: 'I've always been in your mind,' etc. Even if it is because of the rink, I doubt many people would think of that considering what a bomb Xanadu was.

Nothing can stand in Meg's way, and she promised to take Tom's pain away. Also, Isaac apparently can do magic.

You have to believe we are magic

Nothin' can stand in our way

You have to believe we are magic

Don't let your aim ever stray

And if all your hopes survive

Your destiny will arrive

I'll bring all your dreams alive

For you

Edited December 1, 2015 by editorgrrl

[RedHackle]

also wish that Tom had asked 'why did you rape me?' instead of 'why did you f@%k me?'.  I mean, that's what she did.

 

It's probably the most humiliating thing for a man to acknowledge that he's been raped by a woman, so Tom would just translate the encounter as her initiating sex with him. Indeed, I think a lot of men don't consider anything rape unless someone else's penis enters one of the victim's orifices.

 

Well said on both counts; I had the same reaction to Tom’s question, and also saw it as very believable that he might not even let himself in on the fact that he had been raped.

 

Do we know for certain that the grenade didn't explode? It's not beyond the realm of possibility for this show to play coy with details.

 

Meg told her, I guess, superior officer (played by that brilliant chameleon, Adina Porter) something like “there were no physical injuries”. Of course Meg’s idea of an injury and mine might vary some.

 

 

It's also not totally outrageous for this show to let the GR do outlandish things without consequences.

 

 

Fair point.  But I don’t think that’s a mistake by the writers; we do have a history in this country of being very reluctant to interfere with anyone’s religion, so often corrupt religious leaders and cults end up carrying out some pretty awful acts without the government stepping in.

 

I, too, was horrified by the stoning death (thank you for not showing it) of the young man the GR were holding captive.  His confusion and fear were very well acted, I thought.   I hadn't previously hated and despised the GR  - I mean, I didn't like them, but I didn't have the same hatred for them that others seem to.  Now...I really wish they'd all depart.  Meg, you first, you raping, child terrorizing freak show.

Edited December 1, 2015 by RedHackle

[RedheadZombie]

Well said on both counts; I had the same reaction to Tom’s question, and also saw it as very believable that he might not even let himself in on the fact that he had been raped

I bet Tom would understand he was raped if his rapist looked more like Patti or Gladys.

[txhorns79]

Fair point.  But I don’t think that’s a mistake by the writers; we do have a history in this country of being very reluctant to interfere with anyone’s religion, so often corrupt religious leaders and cults end up carrying out some pretty awful acts without the government stepping in.

 

I think the key difference though is that when those groups made a public spectacle, the government did step in.  In this case, we've seen the GR incite riots in Mapleton, and lock a bunch of school children on a bus with a fake grenade.  I don't believe for a moment the government would just overlook that kind of thing. 

[freebie]

 

She's under the illusion that everyone in Miracle is deliriously happy because they didn't lose anyone in the departure.

Which makes very little sense if the reason Evie and the other girls are with the GR is because they aren't happy with life in Jarden. Either Meg is extremely limited in her imagination and is hell bent on believing all the Jarden-ites are as happy and blessed as they keep telling themselves they are, or something else is driving the collision course the GR and the "missing" girls are on. What that could be, I have no idea.

 

I might buy that the girls are fighting the illusion that Jarden is this magical place because it was spared any departures. To them, maybe it's not magical at all, it's just where they live. And where they live is essentially a zoo. Or maybe they accept that Jarden is magical, but don't care because they're bored/disgruntled/angst-ridden teenagers, and they need a cause to spice up their hum-drum lives. So they embrace the biggest new cause around, the GR, because they don't believe the residents of Jarden should be spared from having to remember the departed.

 

What's interesting is that Jarden *is* magical, even if you factor out the lack of departures. I doubt Meg knows anything about the history of the town, the penchant for birds (and ex-cops) to survive three-day burials, or the firemen doing their best to eradicate all things magical. All Meg knows is there was a disturbingly accurate psychic living there at one time. Somehow, that's enough to drive her to hatch a plan that involves -- what? -- exposing or destroying Jarden? Is it petty that I hope whatever the magical thing is that makes Jarden different knocks Meg on her entitled, narcissistic ass?

 

P.S. When I first heard the episode title was "Ten Thirteen," I immediately thought of Chris Carter's production company for the X-Files.

[stillshimpy]

Let me clarify this statement first: I'm a non-meat eating liberal , who doesn't support the death penalty and wants tighter gun control.  So it takes a fair amount for me to say this: 

 

 

 

this case, we've seen the GR incite riots in Mapleton, and lock a bunch of school children on a bus with a fake grenade.  I don't believe for a moment the government would just overlook that kind of thing.

 

If she'd done that to my son today my reaction would still be the same as when he was six.  

 

"I can take her.  You're going down, get yelling Timber."   and my son is twenty-five years old.  

 

The authorities would intervene, if for nothing else than to prevent people enacting their own threats of bodily harm.  Seriously, I don't think I'm even close to unusual or likely alone in that.  People will forgive a lot.  Permanently traumatizing their children , on purpose, tends to fall far, far outside of that "what we'll take in the name of keeping the peace."  

Edited December 2, 2015 by stillshimpy

[omelas]

Hello!

 

I've been thinking a lot about why Tom would leave with Meg.  Tom - like everyone else on this show is a mess. He seems desperate/lost and needs something/someone to anchor him somehow but everyone he turns to ends up betraying him somehow.

 

It starts when he goes to see his biological father (not for the first time) and is violently sent away, then the departure happens and his mother leaves him so he’s rejected by both parents.  After that he starts grabbing on to anyone who will take him.  He meets up with, and is used by Holy Wayne only to have him dump pregnant Christina on him and then she dumps him with the baby as soon as she can. He reunites with his mother only for her to use him in her agenda to save the GR by recruitment but that doesn't work so he starts giving out hugs for his mother’s cause and even when he tells her how it is affecting him she doesn’t care.  Nobody wants him for him – only what he can do for them. 

 

The Meg comes around.  She isn’t blatantly asking anything from him (only tell your mom Meg says hi) and he is not used to that and he doesn’t know how to respond to her.  She is going to Miracle so he goes with her to figure out what Meg wants (because everyone wants something).  It’s a bonus that the only people in the show so far that haven’t tried to outright use him is Kevin and his sister and they are both in Miracle too.

[Lemons]

I didn't like this  episode as much as I loved the  other ones, maybe because I can't stand Meg. I want to see what she's planning to do, though. Especially if she ends up dead or in  prison  for life.

 

 

I had no idea Evie had joined the GR, but the revelation didn't impress me that much.  We didn't know what had happened to them and I was keeping an open mind, so I was more like "great, an answer" than shocked.

 

 

It's the day Meg's mother died.

I didn't like this  episode as much as I loved the  other ones, maybe because I can't stand Meg. I want to see what she's planning to do, though. Especially if she ends up dead or in  prison  for life.

 

I don't know why everybody is saying that  no one in Miracle has experienced the  pain the Departure brought.  Yes, they were all spared, but I guess they had friends and relatives  in other places, so maybe some of them lost someone.

It's the day Meg's mother died.

I can't stand the Meg character. And I think the actress sucks with her deadpan speech pattern. Her character never made any sense. I guess the season will end with a big blow out, a real cliff hanger!

[Juliegirlj]

I have to wonder if John Murphy had opened that gift from Evie if he would have found her cell phone with the cricket ringtone, just like Meg's, and all Evie's communication and plans with the GR.

I think Meg's comment to Tommy about why she F'ed him was a metaphor for planting a seed in his brain. Meg made Tom feel he was a part of something, and he needs that because he is a true follower ( first Holy Wayne, then Laurie, then Meg). Then she dropped him like a hot potato to make the point of just how irrelevant he, and everyone are. Tom has some big decisions ahead - join Meg and her GR Guerillas or warn his entire family living inside Jarden.

I think that flash of Evie and the girls running naked through the woods may have been a flash forward of the big event- maybe they strip down and reveal themselves to the town right before Meg does her shenanigans- ( blow up the bridge, blow herself up in the bridge, blow part of the town up??!)

[WearyTraveler]

I think Meg's plans involve something more than a physical attack.

 

She wants to destroy people emotionally, take away all hope, turn them into extreme nihilists, and for that she needs an emotionally charged mega punch.  Blowing infrastructure up and maybe killing a few people nearby might not do it.  Consider some of the other things the GR has done to accomplish this emotional destruction goal like placing living dolls of the departed in the place they were when they disappeared and scaring terrorizing the school children on that bus.

 

In the first case, the action affected people deeply, much more if they had blown up the town hall, or something like that.  It was extremely personal.  In the second case they were saying "your children can die at any moment and you would be absolutely powerless to avoid it".  Again a very personal, emotionally wrenching act.

 

I think she will use explosives for something, but I also think that's not all she's gong to do.  She's going to use those girls to do something horrifying that would cause the most extreme emotional pain she can inflict on Miracle's residents.  I have no idea what that will be, but it will surely be something heinous.  Not that blowing something up isn't horrible in and off itself, but you know what I mean.

[Rockfish]

First off, the reveal of Evie's trio in the Airstream completely worked on me--I think I even let out an admiring, "Ooooh." Of course, I felt like a dumbass for not even considering that the GR had something to do with it.

I actually love the GR part of the show. Sure, at times I may have to do a bit fanwanking to make it all work, but it's a very small price for me at this time. I was a kid in the '70s, so elements of the GR, and the show itself, remind me of anthologies I used to get to watch then (until I started having too many nightmares and would be put on "no scary shows" restriction). Shows like Circle of Fear and Night Gallery are what come to mind. Granted, those and this show may have no resemblance at all.

I find Meg fascinating and terrifying. At first, I felt sorry for her for the way she lost her mom; I figured that the guilt of her basically blowing her mom off while she did her blow was what was keeping her stagnated. And, supposedly, dealing with a mother's passing is more difficult when you have a dysfunctional relationship, rather than a healthy one (don't know if that's true). But, no, I don't think she felt bad at all; I think she was just enraged that she didn't know what her mom had planned on telling her; don't keep secrets from Meg! Although she, herself had plenty of secrets: she obviously didn't want to marry her fiancé, but used whatever excuse she was using before 10/13 and then started using her mother's death as an excuse afterward. She had/has no empathy for anyone. (Of course, couples have good reasons for long engagements--I'm specifically talking about Meg, here.)

Tommy drives me nuts for reasons other than his man bangs (personal pet peeve). He's been used and beat up and spit out, yet he never learns, even when he has a parent who just wants to be there for him: Kevin. I don't know why Tommy avoids him. Obviously, there are things we don't know and things that I've forgotten from season 1. I wonder if Tommy actually blames him for Laurie's desertion because he could sense Kevin's malaise.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Rockfish

[SoWindsor]

I'm really enjoying Liv Tyler as a villain. So against type that it really works.

I too was confused when she said she was getting Tommy pregnant. I wondered if it was somehow related to holly Wayne and the pregnant women from last season.

They seem to have made her some sort of psychopath which I didn't get last season. If they always intended this, I think Liv would have played her differently last season.

Edited December 3, 2015 by SoWindsor

[shapeshifter]

Tommy drives me nuts for reasons other than his man bangs (personal pet peeve). He's been used and beat up and spit out, yet he never learns, even when he has a parent who just wants to be there for him: Kevin. I don't know why Tommy avoids him. Obviously, there are things we don't know and things that I've forgotten from season 1. I wonder if Tommy actually blames him for Laurie's desertion because he could sense Kevin's malaise.

In season one Kevin was having sex with a "badge bunny" when the disappearances occurred, and it seemed this was not an unusual activity for him to be engaged in, so maybe Tommy was aware of Kevin's infidelities. I seem to recall that Kevin and Laurie were having marital difficulties beyond that too, to the point of considering divorce. Kevin didn't know she was pregnant, and she was considering abortion. Tommy could have either been aware of some or all of these things too--either consciously or intuitively--and blamed Kevin for any or all of it. But most importantly, wasn't Kevin already losing time and talking to himself? If nothing else, Tommy could have observed Kevin smelling like cigarette smoke when he had supposedly quit.

Argh. Now I'm thinking the whole story could so easily devolve into just being Kevin's *guilty* hallucinations while he's not quite drowning with a cement block tied to his ankle in a lake suddenly emptied by an earthquake--like Jack at the end of Lost.

They seem to have made her [Meg] some sort of psychopath which I didn't get last season. If they always intended this, I think Liv would have played her differently last season.

I thought she seemed pretty "off" last season when she decided not to marry her fiancé, but instead join the GR.

Double argh. Now I'm wondering if it will turn out to be a story of a town whose food supply has been tainted with ergot fungus.

Edited December 3, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Juliegirlj]

I am loving the progression of Meg down this dark and sinister road. Someone mentioned Meg's plans having to be more than just physical damage to Jarden, and I agree. If the town is somehow opened up to all the crazy right outside, and the girls are revealed, possibly stripped of their clothing, and blown up, that seems pretty devastating. They may or may not have had any departures, but it would show their town is just as F'ed up as any other.

[Cardie]

Matt's campaign to show that the Departed were in no way saints being taken up to Heaven didn't win him any friends but he was trying to teach an important lesson. The Sudden Departure did not line up with any moral script. This is the mistake outsiders have made about Jarden. Just because no one departed from there doesn't mean that it is a holy place. I suspect this is what has frustrated the entire Murphy family. Their family life and the town's are no kind of Miracle and never have been.

[represent]

Just because no one departed from there doesn't mean that it is a holy place. I suspect this is what has frustrated the entire Murphy family. Their family life and the town's are no kind of Miracle and never have been.

 

But does John Murphy believe this? I always thought that he goes around beating up people who try to push the "miracle" agenda. That's why he he instructed Matt to tell the "truth" that he took advantage of Mary and that's how she got pregnant and not because of something divine/miracle.

 

 Erika, didn't always believe it either based on what she said to Nora. 

 

I think the only one who believes it is the son.

Edited December 4, 2015 by represent

[WearyTraveler]

I can't decide if John believes, or is afraid of what believing will do to him, or believes but doesn't want any more people flocking to the town in search of "salvation".

[Cardie]

I wasn't totally clear. Jarden has had something supernatural going on from the days of the cave woman. But that "magic" does not come from a deity or any power that uses it to reward the good and punish the bad. Since humans often conflate the two, anyone who feels that their lives have not been particularly blessed would resent the assumption that Jarden is a miraculous place favored by God. The Murphys, with pedophilia, domestic violence, incarceration and sudden hearing loss in their experience, don’t think so. Thus John wants to squelch any talk of supernaturalism in Jarden because it never did his family any good.

[DaWatcher]

Just watched this episode for the second time.

There was a subliminal image spliced into the conversation Meg had with the "panel" of G.R. It came directly after the interrogator said "there have been rumors that you are planning your own action"

Time stamp 23:53

Go check it out!

This is the first I've seen has anyone else noticed this in previous episodes/season?

[Milburn Stone]

Just watched this episode for the second time.

There was a subliminal image spliced into the conversation Meg had with the "panel" of G.R. It came directly after the interrogator said "there have been rumors that you are planning your own action"

Time stamp 23:53

Go check it out!

This is the first I've seen has anyone else noticed this in previous episodes/season?

 

DaWatcher, for those of us who don't still have the episode (and/or aren't inclined to tape it again or rewatch it), can you share with us the subliminal content you observed at 23:53?

[WearyTraveler]

It wasn't as "blink and you miss it" as the original subliminal advertising from the 70s, but it was fast.

 

It's a shot of the Jarden bridge with the outsiders looking on as an old-fashioned RV makes its way through it.

[Milburn Stone]

Thanks, WearyTraveler.

[BooBear]

They seem to have made her some sort of psychopath which I didn't get last season. If they always intended this, I think Liv would have played her differently last season.

 

I agree. But I will give them credit for planting these seeds in the finale of last season. Megan was just way too insistant on pushing Laurie to carry out the plan and had a scary look on her face when Matt found her. But I agree there was a bit of a rewrite of the character. I think it was a good rewrite though and since we haven't seen her all season I suppose I can fan wank that Meg took a dark turn when Laurie left, Patti was dead and not much came of their stunt in Mapleton. The more I watch the rerun the more I think Liv Tyler did a great job.

[polyhymnia]

On 12/1/2015 at 2:09 AM, RedheadZombie said:

 

I actually think her motivation is unrelated to her typical GR machinations.  This has nothing to do with making people remember 10/14.  She's under the illusion that everyone in Miracle is deliriously happy because they didn't lose anyone in the departure.  And even though she didn't lose anyone that day either, she's determined to make these people suffer.  And what a fucking hypocrite.  She talks constantly.  And as awful as Patti was, no one was raped under her leadership (that we know of).

 

I found it interesting when Matt reminded her that he had made posters of her mother, and that he was just trying to maker her feel again.  He then apologized for being her "living reminder".  She did not like that, which is amusing since this is supposedly her purpose in life now.

 

I am okay with her acting, but I agree on this motivation - that she wants everyone to suffer.  Which is rich because her mother just died like a regular person.

I thought Matt was pretty awesome in that scene - he realized that she hadn't changed and went after her with this to make sure.

[Anela]

So the cricket in the house, was Meg's phone - she was in there?

that song in the end credits was bugging me, and then I realized where I'd heard it: Gilmore Girls, in a short film made by a character.