S05.E10: Broken Heart

[formerlyfreedom]

In a Camelot flashback, Hook becomes a Dark One and his lust for revernge against Rumplestilskin is re-ignited. When Emma and Hook disagree about their best course of action, the final pieces of the puzzle are revealed as events in Camelot catch up to the present and we witness a charged confrontation between the forces of light and dark that sends our heroes on a collision course with destiny. Meanwhile, in Storybrooke, Hook's centuries old lust for revenge against Gold puts both of their fates in jeopardy while Emma's love faces the ultimate test as she tries to convince Hook to turn away from the darkness before she, Mary-Margaret, David and Regina embark on a new mission as an unexpected evil is released.

 

 

[Worsel]

My thoughts on “Broken Heart” in no particular order:

 

There are “Dark One Chronicles?”   Who wrote them?  And much as I love books, watching heroes reading in a library does not make for exciting TV viewing.  Thankfully that scene did not last too long.

 

Lancelot’s screen time was all too brief.   I hope we get to see more of him (and his mother) soon.

 

I appreciated the acknowledgment that Zelena “deceived Robin in the most vile way.”  I wish they would explicitly show Regina having regret about when she did the same sort of thing with Graham.  Speaking of Zelena I am relieved that they did not try to take her baby from her completely. 

 

I have a hard time labeling Rumple a hero just because he saved Belle from Merida.  Although I am glad he wants to try to reform himself and be a better man for Belle.  And Rumple’s plan for them to meet at the well if he survives reminded me of An Affair to Remember with the planned meeting at the Empire State Building.  Too bad it may be too late to save his relationship with Belle.

 

I am looking forward to seeing more of the Underworld.  And a whole bunch of Dark Ones.

[Spartan Girl]

Poor Merlin.

I don't get it: wouldn't it have been more straightforward for Belle to simply not meet Rumple at the well as agreed if all she wanted to do was break up with him?

Whatever. I don't know why I still watch this show.

[mjgchick]

RIP Merlin.

They did a number on Emma and Hooks characters in this episode as well as their relationship. Yikes.

Edited November 30, 2015 by mjgchick

[InsertWordHere]

So the savior's love interest went incredibly dark and opened up a portal to hell? I feel like I've seen this before.

I guess those Buffy and Angel theories weren't far off.

 

As a person who has always been a fan of Hook's redemption, even over his relationship with Emma, I really hated this episode. The only thing that would save it for me is if he's really tricking the Dark Ones too, but that doesn't seem possible at this point. 

[Mari]

I don’t even really know what I think, so here are some random thoughts:

• The Charming/Mills/Stiltskin family scene?  I hate that very, very much.  Wow, do I hate that very, very much.
• Also, shut up Merida.  They seriously paid a truly annoying guest start/character for that scene?
• I can buy that Hook is angry with Emma.  However, I’m having a little trouble buying that he’s all about hurting and/or destroying Emma.  That doesn’t track.
• Just for the record, I find the show promoting that children can make truly bad people not bad any longer pretty disturbing. 
• If Rumple had killed Hook with Excaliber, would the Dark One curse have moved back to him? 
• I am really, really tired of Emma trying to do good things and then having it backfire, and/or her friends and family treat her like crap.

[tennisgurl]

So...Death Eaters from Harry Potter are attacking?

 

I just...I love Hook and his redemption story, and I love him and Emma...this is not pleasant for me to watch. They better be leading to something really god dang good. 

[YaddaYadda]

I liked the episode.

 

And it seems this darkness was really born out of Emma lying to him about Excalibur. This whole thing seems to have started with one huge communication problem, and devolved into something that's out of control.

 

Why is Merlin telling them to go find Nimue because she's the only who can destroy the darkness? 

 

ETA - 

 

I have some very serious issues with Henry, and how he forgave Regina and Gold because they've shown him they changed.

 

Fine, Regina has somewhat changed when she's not gleefully trying to control someone with the dagger, but Gold?

 

Gold tried to turn Emma dark, then stuck everyone in a book to get his happy ending. He came back to SB knowing that once the darkness took over, the gig would be up for everyone who lived in the town. And it's because they took the darkness out of him that his mother got stuck with it.

 

So, no Henry,your grampy hasn't changed. The only reason he is the way he is, is because his ass got a clean heart, and a clean slate. Sit your ass down, and shut up.

Edited November 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Worsel]

 

Why is Merlin telling them to go find Nimue because she's the only who can destroy the darkness? 

Maybe this will ultimately be about Nimue's redemption?

[Mockingbird]

Oof. Hook was the most unlikable he's ever been, including when he was in cahoots with Cora. I don't know how we're supposed to believe he could turn so dark so fast (MERLIN! That was just rude, Hook) and then still root for him once he's no longer the Dark One. I know that the show has to create conflict, but it's just not believable that Hook could go from two seasons of pure puppy dog in love to...whatever this is.

Also, show and idiot characters on it: Emma has not and will never do anything worse than all of the terrible shit Regina and Rumple have done. Her wanting to work through things on her own is not quite as bad as, well, hundreds of murders and ruined lives.

[superjengirl]

Oh my gosh, all of those dark ones?! I see some great stories starting though how can they possibly in 1 hr???

[mjgchick]

This episode was a train wreck. It kept getting worse and worse. First we have Regina being the biggest hypocrite ever, then we have Rumple being a smug bastard (Belle dumping him was all kinds of hilarious though.) then we have Hook and Emma just doing more damage with this Dark One mess.

Oh and yay for Snow defending Emma and Hooks relationship. To bad it sunk.

[Writing Wrongs]

All I could concentrate on was that Dark Hook parts his hair on the opposite side as Regular Hook. Because he's eeevilll.

[HoodlumSheep]

I didn't hate the episode as much as I thought i did. It was a little rushed though.

I missed 10-15 minutes, though. Did I miss anything important? I remember the sneak peek scenes and then something about Hook taking Emma's memories (of what?) and something about Merlin saying something about the darkesr of dark ones or something like that?

-Darth Killian is crazy. Is it wrong that I enjoyed evil Hook?

-this episode would have worked better if they had spent the previous episode building up Hook's mistrust, etc. it just felt too fast trying to squeeze everthing in.

-so Clippy!Rumple was the reason Hook lost the duel. Interesting...

-Poor Merlin. :( I'll miss having that pretty face on my screen.

- So the massive memory wipe/hijacked curse is their explanation for Hook acting like himself in Storybrooke previously.

-Darth Killy is cold. Dang. Poor Emma :'(.

-yay for Belle not getting back together with Rumple! You go Belle! You need time to sort out your feelings!

-if Emma can knockout Killian just like that, why didn't she do it before he crushed Merlin's heart? I suppose she wanted it to be Hook's choice.

-what I find suspicious;": hook could easily kill rumple whenever he wanted, so this revenge scheme seems sketchy. And the fact that Hook has located Nimue just like Merlin said in that message...dare I hope there's an ulterior motive?

-and of course they don't explain where Lancelot's been. Dumb. dumb. dumb.

-next week looks painful.

-liked the Dark CS/Rumple scenes

Decent episode, I just wish it wasn't so rushed. They really should have developed Killian going crazy for more than one episode. It only makes me dislike The Bear King/Merida more.

Edited November 30, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

My feelings for this episode are very mixed. There were parts I absolutely loved, others I side-eyed, and some I just despised.

 

Pros:
* Dark Hook was by far the highlight of the episode. Kudos to Colin's magnificent acting.

* Merlin is dead. Yeah, I'm glad he's gone.

* Robin/Regina/Zelena scene was sweet. I'm not sure what Zelena will be doing now, but I liked how Regina got off her high horse for a second and actually let the baby's mother have visitation rights.

* Camelot!Snow actually pulling for Emma.

* Rumple's redemption was forced and contrived, but I liked how this episode provided closure for the Milah incident. I do dig Hero!Rumple somewhat, even if he's a little boring.

* I feel so bad for Emma. I honestly don't blame her for what she's done. The other characters are too quick to judge her.

* Shocked they actually followed up on the voicemail.

* Regina acknowledging her evil past and the atrocities she committed? Am I hallucinating?

 

Cons:

* Still freaking hate Henry. Also hate how the Violet thing is being treated as the worst betrayal ever. I wish Emma didn't have to constantly attempt to win him over. You trust Regina and Rumple over Emma? Shut up, Henry!

* Belle rejecting Rumple... again? Almost every time he's done something horrible she has stood by him. He finally turns around and becomes the honorable man she wanted, and now she thinks its time to step back and rethink her life? Why did she wait until after Rumple risked his life twice to tell him? That's pretty out of character and random.

* "You proved yourself when you risked your life to save me from Merida. You're a hero now!" ROFL.

* Magic can't bring back the dead... unless you get blood from a man who was resurrected and there just so happens to be a portal to the Underworld.

* Like 5x08, this episode was very PLOT PLOT PLOT.

 

All those scenes at the lake and there's been a portal to hell under it this whole time? Storybrooke is so weird.

Edited November 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Sarcastica]

Well, rest in peace Merlin.

It was nice to see Lancelot for 5 seconds.

Merida still annoys the hell out of me.

Belle walking away from Rumple at the well made me want to stand up and clap.

Zelena calling the baby "my little green bean" made me go awwww

I think I need a day to process all the Emma/Hook stuff, though the Dark Ones make out sessions were hot. 

[Randomosity]

Oh, my poor babies, Hook and Emma. Things are royally effed up between the two of them after that mess. I did NOT like DarkHook throwing Emma's orphan-ness in her face; that's gotta sting.

 

I'll keep telling myself that Captain Swan is True Love/endgame/etc, but episodes like this make it harder to see that happening, at least believably.

 

I am curious about all the Ones Dark. I'm sure they'll wreak havoc in one way or another, but to be honest, I was glad to see it was them on the boat, because after all the Milah references during the whatnot with Gold, I was afraid Hook was going to try to bring her back from the dead to create some horribly miserable dark/dead love triangle to mess with Captain Swan even more.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Randomosity

[pezgirl7]

I thought I'd enjoy this episode even if it was only for Colin's acting, but I just found it mehhh. Too much hard-earned character assassination for my taste. All the CS kisses in the world can't make up for the way Hook pushed Emma away. Also, DO Emma's voice is starting to get annoying.

I think it's strange how much Regina likes to smile when she brings up all the horrible things she has done. I just don't understand that acting choice. I want to believe she has changed, and I believe it when she talks about Henry, but it's hard sometimes when she's always bringing up her past whill showing no sense of remorse.

I did like Snow's little speech to Charming though, but then they ruined it when Emma's whole family left her behind in Storybrooke after just chiding her for trying to fix the problems on her own.

Edited November 30, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Randomosity]

All I could concentrate on was that Dark Hook parts his hair on the opposite side as Regular Hook. Because he's eeevilll.

 

Heh, I thought I had caught that in the previews for this ep; funny that it actually happened.

[AmeliaBedelia]

There's a lot to digest from this episode. I did enjoy watching it.

 

Cons:

There was a lack of cohesion in the overall narrative. As a Hook fan, I could watch Colin read the phone book. But, this hour felt like a series of vignettes in As the Dark One Turns. I would hate the structure of this episode if it focused on a character I didn't care about.

Henry's line about forgiving Gold and Regina because they've changed really rubbed me the wrong way. The show tried to address concerns I've seen written on this forum, but they failed so badly. Henry was basically like, "I forgive them and not you because of...reasons...yeah, that's it."

Merlin is dead (sobs). He's too pretty to die.

For the love of everything holy, they better not name that baby Hope.

 

Pros:

Colin and Jen knocked it out of the park. I've been missing sassy, innuendo-laden Hook, but I had no idea he could be so mean. When he sneered that Emma would always be an orphan, I wanted to simultaneously punch him in the throat, and then hug him, and then hug Emma. The emotion in all the CS scenes is the type of stuff I want to see this show mine. Their smooches were hot too (by my count, they've done it in the forest at least three times hehe).

Snowing got a decent scene. More of that please.

I liked Operation Cobra II. I don't get all the rules about the squid ink, but I don't think the writers do either.

 

Next week looks intense. Hope its decent because going into the hiatus with a mediocre episode would suck.

 

[InsertWordHere]

-what I find suspicious;": hook could easily kill rumple whenever he wanted, so this revenge scheme seems sketchy. 

But it turned out he was mostly just trying to get Rumple's blood. He didn't even try very hard to kill him. This is the only hope I have at this point. 

[babyPhat279]

I enjoyed watching, but ugh, it *is* annoying if the only reason Hook is upset is because of her initial lie about Excalibur. She apologized, deal with it. I'm just going to tell myself he's really mad about the whole thing, being turned dark, etc.

[OnceUponAJen]

This episode didn't ruin my enjoyment of or the overall impact of Killian's redemption. I blame the Darkness, and can see where it has warped his perceptions. I think he is that susceptible to the Darkness, yes. The Darkness used him good. I was completely wrong about Rumple talking Hook down from the fight.

Emma may end up killing Hook after all, just to stop him per the promo. It sounds like she'd be willing to do it if he can't pull himself back.

Loved Colin's acting in this! They're going to have a lot to cover in the next episode. I can't believe we're already at the mid-season mark. I really hope the 5A finale is not too rushed.

Edited November 30, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Mari]

 then we have Rumple being a smug bastard (Belle dumping him was all kinds of hilarious though.) 

I actually had trouble with that scene--although, yes, Rumple deserved to get dumped--I find it interesting that Belle dumped him after she had some  proof he'd changed, and was a normal, decent guy, now.  I don't know if they meant to, but it sort of added ammunition to my "She only loves him when she can secretly enjoy watching him torture people once in a while." theory.

 

Oh and yay for Snow defending Emma and Hooks relationship. To bad it sunk.

 

And it wasn't even to Emma.  Has she said a positive, friendly thing to Emma since she talked to her about the dance before ditching her for Regina?  Because I don't remember anything except that.  

 

All I could concentrate on was that Dark Hook parts his hair on the opposite side as Regular Hook. Because he's eeevilll.

And all the leather!  Yikes, the Dark Hook/Swan duo wore a lot of leather.  

 

 

* Regina acknowledging her evil past and the atrocities she committed? Am I hallucinating?

No.  Regina's's done that before, when she wants to gloat about how powerful she is and was.  She was one-upping Zelena.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Zelena calling the baby "my little green bean" made me go awwww

I LOL'ed when I saw the hospital named it "Baby Hood"

 

 

Too much hard-earned character assassination for my taste. All the CS kisses in the world can't make up for the way Hook pushed Emma away. Also DO Emma's voice is starting to get annoying.

 

I'll keep telling myself that Captain Swan is True Love/endgame/etc, but episodes like this make it harder to see that happening, at least believably.

 

This. Hook got eggnapping-levels character assassination. If we're going to go with CS being endgame, you basically have to say everything that happened in this episode was just because of magic. You really have to gut out Hook's free will to give him a pass on it. From what we've seen of Emma and Rumple, they weren't totally at the mercy of the darkness. They could choose to do good or bad things and mostly kept their heads. Hook just went absolutely nuts and held back no evil. He has rejected Emma more than once.

 

 

I actually had trouble with that scene--although, yes, Rumple deserved to get dumped--I find it interesting that Belle dumped him after she had some  proof he'd changed, and was a normal, decent guy, now.  I don't know if they meant to, but it sort of added ammunition to my "She only loves him when she can secretly enjoy watching him torture people once in a while." theory.

This scene came way too late in the game for me to be happy about it. She should have had that conversation back in S2. I kept thinking Belle was actually someone else using a shapeshifting spell... but nope.

 

 

No.  Regina's's done that before, when she wants to gloat about how powerful she is and was.  She was one-upping Zelena.

True, but at least she was using to show Zelena could be redeemed. That's... a small step I guess.

Edited November 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

Am I the only one who really liked this episode? There were definitely some issues -- for example, why exactly did Hook have to cast the dark curse? I may have not been paying attention to that.

 

But Hook had magic! I loved that. And I loved his dark pirate costume and the fight on the Jolly Roger and the hair and guyliner. Colin and JMo were just awesome tonight.

 

I'm still hoping that all this is a ruse and Killian is much smarter than he has let on. It's just going to be so much more heartbreaking for puppy dog Killian if it isn't.

[YaddaYadda]

I think what I find really "upsetting" about this is that 5x09 was a filler episode. This stuff feels rushed now, like they need to fit everything within the last 2 hours. Why didn't they use a portion of 5x09 to advance the plot, instead of giving us more Merida backstory?

[Hook75]

Why is Merlin telling them to go find Nimue because she's the only who can destroy the darkness?

 

 

 

Maybe by killing her, you kill the darkness? or make her choose love over revenge kills darkness?

 

Was Belle under the dark one's spell or did she mean it? I thought we will see Hook with her heart.

 

Poor Hook, poor Emma. I don't like it but when he grabbed her for a kiss- it was hot!

[HoodlumSheep]

I enjoyed watching, but ugh, it *is* annoying if the only reason Hook is upset is because of her initial lie about Excalibur. She apologized, deal with it. I'm just going to tell myself he's really mad about the whole thing, being turned dark, etc.

That's why I think this episode's true downfall was because it was too rushed. Had they spent a little more time adding a few more scenes building up the initial distrust, like the scene we got between CS and Rumple in the forest, it would have worked better. We needed more scenes of Clippy!Rumple whispering in Hook's ear. Heck, they could have had Nimue do it to.

Everything just needed to fester a bit longer.

Colin did great with the material he was given though.

Edited November 30, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Mari]

You know, if Hook went that bat-crazy when he became a Dark One, they should be giving Emma floral parades for making sure Regina didn't get Nimue Gooped.  After all, Hook was saner and slightly less prone to evil it up for fun than she was.

 

Imagine what a Dark Regina would've gotten up to, considering what she was capable of without the goop.

[pezgirl7]

So originally Hook cast the curse so he could get back to Storybrooke to kill Rumple. Then when he gets his memories back he tells Rumple that he's going to take his head for turning Emma dark. But then he pushes Emma away and doesn't kill Rumple. Instead he brings all the DOs to Storybrooke. That doesn't make any sense unless Hook has some alterior motive, like ridding the world of the darkness for good. That's all I can hope for at this point. I just hope he can be redeemed.

[mercfan3]

I don't even have a problem with Hook. 

 

I mean, really..what has he done so far? He's said some really mean things to Emma. Okay, I didn't like that..but Emma hurt him, so we can call that even. Killed Merlin? Merlin's vague self had that coming. Brought back a bunch of dark ones? Okay, that's more trollish than evil (so far..) 

 

I think I liked that episode because of how much hook we got in it. Obviously, they'll redeem him at some point..so I'm just going to enjoy the Hook centric plots while we've got them. 

[Senna]

The other replies here are helping me understand why I felt a bit "meh" about this episode.  I'm just not satisfied with Hook's journey into the ~dark.  Colin did a fine job, but I got whiplash from the change from regular Hook to Dark!Hook, which wasn't the case for Rumpel or Emma.  Maybe there's some underlying motive, like there was for Dark Emma/the curse ... but as this episode showed, the writers are often not very good at coming up with satisfying explanations for mysteries they've presented (there was no good reason for Emma be to taunting everyone at the beginning of the season like she was really ~dark).

 

I'm also kind of wondering if it was actually Hook appearing as Belle in the break-up scene.

 

I did get a giggle out of "Baby Hood" and "green bean."

[AuxArx]

Funniest line (may be paraphrasing):  Once you've gone green, you'll never go queen

[KingOfHearts]

 

Okay, I didn't like that..but Emma hurt him, so we can call that even.

Emma always had good intentions though. She hid Excalibur because she didn't want the darkness tempting him to steal it. His memories were taken so she could have time to rid them of the darkness. She turned him into the Dark One to save his life. Hook has openly stated he doesn't have any feelings for her, doesn't love her any more, and that he wants to hurt her. He's made her cry in agony multiple times. That's a tough pill for me to swallow, even with the Nimue possession. I'm still processing it all...

 

 

As mean as it was, am I the only one who though Hook had a point with his "orphan" line? Emma shouldn't wallow in self-pity about feeling alone while at the same time pushing away people who could potentially remedy that problem just based on what they COULD do or what COULD happen. Her trust issues and emotional walls may have a solid and sympathetic reason for existing, but I can only go so far with them before I want to say "woman up and deal with it already!"

He was right about her pushing people away, but calling her an orphan was a direct stab at her heart. That was the worst thing he could say to her, really.

Edited November 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

As mean as it was, am I the only one who though Hook had a point with his "orphan" line? Emma shouldn't wallow in self-pity about feeling alone while at the same time pushing away people who could potentially remedy that problem just based on what they COULD do or what COULD happen. Her trust issues and walls may have a solid and sympathetic reason for existing, but I can only go so far before I want to say "woman up and deal with it already!"

Edited November 30, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

It was so weird to see Hook drag Emma mercilessly like that. She had no clap back for him. I do wonder if he's always felt that way. Him saying how he's always been there for her and him thinking she didn't believe in him was sad to hear.

I'm just going to ignore Henry. How is Emma wanting to fix her mess on her own worse than mass murder? What is wrong with these writers?

[HoodlumSheep]

I think what I find really "upsetting" about this is that 5x09 was a filler episode. This stuff feels rushed now, like they need to fit everything within the last 2 hours. Why didn't they use a portion of 5x09 to advance the plot, instead of giving us more Merida backstory?

This. I honestly like 5x09 even less now. Sorry Ruby and Mulan (but not you, Merida), but that filler episode was needed for the main storyline. We could have gotten more Clippy!Rumple working on breaking up CS and sewing seeds of discord, which would have helped ease in Killian's dark turn immensely.

Other than that, I am of the group that enjoyed this episode for the most part (yes, there were issues). It was the pacing that I had the biggest issues with.

[Mari]

As mean as it was, am I the only one who though Hook had a point with his "orphan" line? Emma shouldn't wallow in self-pity about feeling alone while at the same time pushing away people who could potentially remedy that problem just based on what they COULD do or what COULD happen. Her trust issues and walls may have a solid and sympathetic reason for existing, but I can only go so far with them before I want to say "woman up and deal with it already!"

Yes and no.

 

I guess the problem is that the only character we saw actually trying to reach out and be friendly to Emma was Hook, and even he had the scene where he rejected her and told her he didn't love her now that she was Dark Swan.

 

Her parents didn't even have a single scene in Storybrooke where they were friendly, and the scenes she had with Henry and Regina mostly revolved around them lecturing her or being disappointed in her.

 

What reason have any of those people (except Hook, pre-rejection) given Emma to reach out to them for help?

 

And considering Emma's life rejections started when she was three years old, and her biological mother very much prefers the person that caused Emma to live that childhood?  No wonder she doesn't trust anyone to actually love her.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Mari

[KateJones]

I'm really mad at how ripped from Buffy this is. He immediately goes so far off the deep end. That wasn't killian, your lovesick puppy dog. He died. Angel without his soul after a moment of true happiness. They were careful to make the same distinction of no soul/dark one v killian the man who loves Emma. To keep his redemption arc intact so he can move on eventually because it wasn't him. It was the darkness. I've seen this before. I fear for where it's heading. This is really upsetting.

[Worsel]

I actually had trouble with that scene--although, yes, Rumple deserved to get dumped--I find it interesting that Belle dumped him after she had some  proof he'd changed, and was a normal, decent guy, now.  I don't know if they meant to, but it sort of added ammunition to my "She only loves him when she can secretly enjoy watching him torture people once in a while." theory.

 

 

Like some others I was wondering if it was someone else in disguise because it didn't make much sense to me that she would give up just when he is becoming the man she claimed she wanted.  But I guess they want to be realistic about how much Belle has been hurt and how afraid she is of being hurt again.  As they have shown before, fear is a powerful impediment to love.

[KingOfHearts]

 

It was the darkness. I've seen this before. I fear for where it's heading. This is really upsetting.

It opens a lot of doors for whitewashing Rumple and all other DOs. "Oh that wasn't Rumple... that was the darkness!" You can't really say that all of Rumple's actions were free will while Hook's are dictated by Nimue.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm really mad at how ripped from Buffy this is. He immediately goes so far off the deep end. That wasn't killian, your lovesick puppy dog. He died. Angel without his soul after a moment of true happiness. They were careful to make the same distinction of no soul/dark one v killian the man who loves Emma. To keep his redemption arc intact so he can move on eventually because it wasn't him. It was the darkness. I've seen this before. I fear for where it's heading. This is really upsetting.

Exactly. I feel like this was all done to clear Rumple of everything he did as the Dark One. And when Rumple manipulated events to get the curse cast, he had a worthier goal than just getting revenge on someone. It makes Rumple the "better" Dark One and I just can't stand it. Hook cast the darkest of curses and killed Merlin for nothing. 

 

They haven't even sunk him to Rumple's level, they've sunk him to Regina's. 

[mjgchick]

I'm really mad at how ripped from Buffy this is. He immediately goes so far off the deep end. That wasn't killian, your lovesick puppy dog. He died. Angel without his soul after a moment of true happiness. They were careful to make the same distinction of no soul/dark one v killian the man who loves Emma. To keep his redemption arc intact so he can move on eventually because it wasn't him. It was the darkness. I've seen this before. I fear for where it's heading. This is really upsetting.

I'm prepared for Full Of Grace to play and pain. :)

[mercfan3]

Meh, it's all them but it's not. If you think of dark magic as an addiction it makes sense to me. People don't act like themselves when they are addicted to something. So it's them, but it's often..someone else.

 

I also think the darkness brings about the worst parts of people. Nimue was vengeful. Rumple power tripped because he had been a coward. Dark Swan isolated herself. And Hook had a cruel/bully streak too him. 

 

As for Belle, she originally broke up with him, and I don't know that we ever saw her change her mind on that. To me, she said "I have to decide what I want on my own." And that's fair..and one of the more rational things she's done. She was already through with Rumple, but now she's thinking about whether she wants to try or not. 

 

They need to do a better job in showing Hook's motivation and what actually happened. But he's hinted at it. He said a few times he still had feelings for Emma and he sees her as an anchor. So snuffing out the light is his plan. But I'm hoping we see more of it because Emma knew what Hook was planning on doing so something must have happened before the curse. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by mercfan3

[KateJones]

"I know I could love you much better than this . . ."

Yes. Considering they never got back together after that and basically ruined the relationship forever. I'm really hoping they don't follow the script exactly but I'm not optimistic.

[tennisgurl]

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get about how fast Hook went Dark Side in this episode. It was like 0-60 on the evil scale. And it was all because of the darkness? Alright then, explain to us how its affecting him, explain his perspective, explain how the freaking hell the "Dark One" stuff actually works!

 

You know what else bugs me? Hooks whole issue seems to be that his choice was taken away. But, this whole storyline is taking away all the agency he has as a character. This turn happened so fast because its not about him. Its about Emma. His worth is being reduced to "Emmas tragic love interest". It has nothing to do with him personally or his struggle towards redemption. Its about creating more angst for Emma, and moving the plot forward.   

[Shanna Marie]

The acting was mesmerizing, and the Hook/Rumple team-up, in whichever guise, is always entertaining (after this show is over, those two actors need to keep looking for projects together because they play well off each other), but unless they really pull out some good twists in the next episode, I think I kind of hate what they've done in this plot, to the point they may actually finally drive me away from this show. There was so much potential in this storyline that I can't believe this is what they decided to do with it.

 

Also, show and idiot characters on it: Emma has not and will never do anything worse than all of the terrible shit Regina and Rumple have done. Her wanting to work through things on her own is not quite as bad as, well, hundreds of murders and ruined lives.

There was some very loud "Shut up, Henry" in my living room. For one thing, Rumple didn't change. He pretended to change while he kept on doing evil things, and he's responsible for the current situation because he pulled all kinds of schemes to come back to Storybrooke, and he did so with the intent of turning Emma dark so he could save himself. But all the time when Henry was trusting him, he was actually working behind everyone's back on some evil scheme or another. For another, yeah, using Violet's heart (and subsequently setting things right) and then keeping everyone at a distance to work through things on her own and protect someone she loves who generally doesn't have the support of everyone else isn't nearly as much to forgive as multiple murders and curses, and whatnot. Emma as Dark One has done far less damage than Regina did on a single bad day when she was in a snit. Keeping Henry at a distance to protect him and Hook isn't anywhere near the same league as gaslighting him, destroying things he loved just to keep control over him, and plotting to kill the rest of his family so Regina could have him to herself. So, shut up, Henry. Though at least he did end up coming through for her, so we'll let him live. This week.

 

I kept thinking Belle was actually someone else using a shapeshifting spell... but nope.

I was just waiting for her to poof into a grinning Hook as she walked away. That would have made more sense. So, she was willing to stick with him after learning he murdered his first wife and after watching him beat multiple people almost to death, and she was apparently close to getting past all the times he lied to her, all his evil schemes, and now when he's actually good, she dumps him? The only thing I can think of is that she had to wait to see what he was like when he was good so that she knew she was leaving him because she was hurt and couldn't trust him, not just because he was currently evil, so "Hmm, even when you're good, I can't trust you."

 

So originally Hook cast the curse so he could get back to Storybrooke to kill Rumple. Then when he gets his memories back he tells Rumple that he's going to take his head for turning Emma dark. But then he pushes Emma away and doesn't kill Rumple. Instead he brings all the DOs to Storybrooke. That doesn't make any sense unless Hook has some alterior motive, like ridding the world of the darkness for good.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe Nimue is actually in the driver's seat, even though we're not seeing Clippy Nimue all the time. I can't think of why Hook himself would want to bring all the Dark Ones back. Rumple never seemed to have thought of doing that. So while the personality and a lot of the actions are Hook's, it's Nimue pulling the strings. Wouldn't Hook have killed Rumple? But Nimue didn't care about that. She just wanted the blood. So maybe there's some Hook vs. Nimue struggle going on inside -- Hook wanted Rumple to kill him, Nimue poofed him away. They just can't show us the inner struggle because it would ruin the "surprise" when we find out what's really been going on -- probably right as Emma kills him, she'll learn what he was up to.

 

But for the most part, Hook's drastic turn into darkness with almost no struggle makes no sense. I could see him getting that way with Clippy Rumple in his head, driving him mad, or with more of Nimue whispering in his ear. But this is a man who fought off darkness before, all on his own, with no support network, no encouragement, no participation hero medals for not murdering people. His darkness-fighting muscles should actually have been a lot stronger than Emma's because he's had more practice. He's spent centuries hating the Dark One, who's responsible for so much loss in his life. Wouldn't he have fought it off a lot harder?

[Worsel]

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get about how fast Hook went Dark Side in this episode. It was like 0-60 on the evil scale. And it was all because of the darkness? Alright then, explain to us how its affecting him, explain his perspective, explain how the freaking hell the "Dark One" stuff actually works!

 

 

I guess its time to go back to the library and read the Dark One Chronicles...

[Mari]

The only thing I can come up with that even remotely makes sense is that Hook has less control over it, and less free will than Rumple had, and even Emma had, because the Goop was forced on him.

 

Rumple chose it, and completed the stabbing to make sure it happened.  Emma chose it to tether it, but it was still a choice.  Maybe that makes a diference in who/what controls the steering wheel?

 

ETA:

He also ended up getting Gooped when he was at the point of death--when his sense of self would be at its lowest.  Maybe that would make a difference, too?  Rumple and Emma were both pretty healthy when they leathered up.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Mari