S02.E09: 209

[Empress1]

As a married woman, I've never looked at Tinder but don't you see pictures of the person you are matched with?

Wouldn't Helen know what her Tinder date looked like? If so, then no way was the doctor her intended Tinder date.

That's the entire point of Tinder. You see a picture first, before you can see the profile (and a lot of people don't even bother with a written profile). It's basically "Hot or Not?" in app form. (Although sometimes men post their bank balances in lieu of pictures.) I don't think the doctor was her Tinder date or one of them would have mentioned it; I think he was just on Tinder (which is totally realistic, and he probably hooks up quite a bit) and happened to get a message when he was at Helen's.

 

I went on a nice, real date with a guy from Tinder; nothing physical happened aside from him kissing me on the cheek afterward. But it's widely used as a hook-up app. I wasn't on it very long, I didn't like it.

[Ellaria]

Here are two minor things that I found interesting in this episode. I wonder if they will play into the events surrounding the murder and beyond.

 

• The director at the party - Callahan (?) - wants Noah to change his book's ending for the movie: eliminate the murder and instead use Noah's preferred ending of a "couple with a great secret between them." What was the purpose of that discussion other than to affirm that Noah was correct in his hesitation to end the novel with the murder?
• At the party, Max reminds Noah that he owes him $50,000. I didn't get the impression that Max was "loaning" Noah the money. It sounded like Max was doing whatever he could to move the divorce - and his relationship with Helen - forward. Was Max just being an asshole or is he not quite as wealthy as he pretends?

 

Max is a continual presence in the perimeter of the story. I see no purpose in having him appear at the party other than to remind the viewer that he is rich, well-connected and likes to have a good time. It is causing me to think that he is going to play a role in the events surrounding Scotty's murder.

[Kiss my mutt]

Do you think the doctor is about the same age as Helen? I couldn't really tell. I hope she doesn't try to talk herself into liking him with all the red flags.

I had to laugh at the match.com comment that it was more for divorcees. When I got a divorce, every other divorced person was on there. I met my second husband that way. Tinder didn't exist and Eharmony turned me down. Lol.

[grommit2]

Okay...I need some help here:

1) Who is the father?  I cannot unravel the timelines to point to Cole (the one-night visit), Scotty (eh?!), Noah (booooo....), Oscar (from the first season one-nighter).  Are there any other candidates?  Or has Alison exhausted all of Montauk?

2) Who ran down Scotty?  Curent perps include: Noah (the obvious choice). And Cole (because he is sick of Scotty's new role and money-grubbing). Oscar (because he is still angry at Scotty for punching him out in the first season, and for losing his Lobster Roll).  Now we have Alison...because Scotty is the father? And don't forget Whitney, the jilted lover.  And the drug dealers...eh?  

3) Whatever happened to the buried drugs...or was it drug money...lost in the first season?

4) Is Whitney the coolest, most divisive, annoying character in a night-time soap in several decades?

5) The Alison/Cole land has a thousand feet of waterfront property?  Yikes...how much is that worth?

6) Helen was crushed by Noah's infidelity, Whitney's mercurial/painful behavior, Martin's petulant behavior, her mother's cloying behavior and her father's cheating behavior.  I understand why she seeks sex with anyone as a means to assuage her pain. But...why does she want to pay for the high-end lawyer to defend Noah?

7) That doctor is a murder waiting to happen...drinks like a fish, then heads to the hospital.  Geez!

 

[cardigirl]

Yes, it's spelled "Alison" - not only in the closed captions (and on IMDB), but also when they display on screen who's POV it will be. From the first episode, it's been spelled with one L.

Well, I'll rewatch the episode again tonight, but I swear on Noah's phone when he saw all the missed messages, it was spelled with two 'ells.'  And when Alison/Allison read the dedication, it was also spelled with two 'ells.'   That's why it bugged me.  Because I thought it was one 'el' but then people were spelling it with two on here, and then I saw the dedication and the phone.  Not a big deal, but weird that it happened like that. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

I don't think Whitney making out with a girl is any more or less subtle or interesting than with a boy. Either way, to have naked Dad leering at you from across a shared hot tub would be more shocking than the electrical storm.

 

Yeah, I just can't shake the feeling that Whitney-kissing-a-chick was done for shock value only.  I thought it was over-baked, honestly.  There was enough sorta-shock going on, with Whitney being witnessed by naked dad, who was possibly jerking off or was sitting there with a raging boner.  Throwing in Whitney kissing a chick seemed a bit forced to me.  No likey.

 

I thought Cole burning down the house was over-baked too.  I mean, seriously, Treem, why not put up a background image of David Byrne or play Talking Heads while you're at it?  Oy.

 

Look, Josh Jackson seems like a very nice guy & he's quite attractive.  I get how viewers wanna like Cole cuz Josh is a nice attractive guy.  And Cole is still hurting cuz of the death of his child.  This is extremely understandable.  In spite of this, Cole is a smug asshole.  He's treating Luisa like absolute shit.  This isn't unbelieveable.  Women all over take being treated like shit by men all the time.   Ugh, it's something I don't understand & never will.  I just hate watching this kinda crap.  Cole has made it understood he will NEVER move to the city.  So if these 2 get together, she is gonna have to move out there & change her life considerably.  Cole is a butthead.  Is anyone mistaking him for a nice guy?

 

I really was expecting Clooney to show up.  If he'll do some stupid coffee commercial with Danny Devito, why not this?

Edited November 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[SlackerInc]

That's the entire point of Tinder. You see a picture first, before you can see the profile (and a lot of people don't even bother with a written profile). It's basically "Hot or Not?" in app form. (Although sometimes men post their bank balances in lieu of pictures.)

That's obviously super obnoxious but it does suggest that those men are actually looking for something more than a hookup.

I had to laugh at the match.com comment that it was more for divorcees. When I got a divorce, every other divorced person was on there. I met my second husband that way. Tinder didn't exist and Eharmony turned me down. Lol.

Turned you down? On what basis?

[Constantinople]

The director at the party - Callahan (?) - wants Noah to change his book's ending for the movie: eliminate the murder and instead use Noah's preferred ending of a "couple with a great secret between them." What was the purpose of that discussion other than to affirm that Noah was correct in his hesitation to end the novel with the murder?

I don't think the point was to show that Noah was correct, given how popular the novel has been. I believe the conventional wisdom is that novels can often be darker than movies so what "works" as a novel won't "work" according to Happy Ending Hollywood. I wouldn't be surprised if the producer -- I believe he was a producer, not a director -- was also wondering if the movie were a success, how they could put spit out Descentier II: Electric Boogaloo. So I think the point was just to show that Noah, ultimately, is a whore. At least, that's what I took from it.

And to be honest, if Hollywood was showering me with the kind of money that Noah is allegedly receiving for that dreck, my reaction would be pretty much the same

Want to change the "Noah" character from a quiet school teacher to an Iraqi War veteran suffering from PTSD? Sure, go ahead!

The Alison character should work at a kangaroo petting zoo? Great!

Gabriel is still alive, but kidnapped by government agents to stop Noah from exposing X and/or being stalked by a Great White? Why didn't I think about that!

Alison's marriage dissolves after Cole comes out of the closet? Fantastic!

Whitney is Max's?  Another winner!

 

At the party, Max reminds Noah that he owes him $50,000. I didn't get the impression that Max was "loaning" Noah the money.

In Episode 3, Max specifically used the word "gift" to describe the $50,000 he was giving Noah.

Of course, that was from Noah's POV.

 

It sounded like Max was doing whatever he could to move the divorce - and his relationship with Helen - forward. Was Max just being an asshole...

Is the Pope Catholic?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Constantinople

[Ellaria]

I don't think the point was to show that Noah was correct, given how popular the novel has been. I believe the conventional wisdom is that novels can often be darker than movies so what "works" as a novel won't "work" according to Happy Ending Hollywood. I wouldn't be surprised if the producer -- I believe he was a producer, not a directory -- was also wondering if the movie were a success, how they could put spit out Descentier II: Electric Boogaloo. So I think the point was just to show that Noah, ultimately, is a whore. At least, that's what I took from it.

And to be honest, if Hollywood was showering me with the kind of money that Noah is allegedly receiving for that dreck, my reaction would be pretty much the same

Want to change the "Noah" character from a quiet school teacher to an Iraqi War veteran suffering from PTSD? Sure, go ahead!

The Alison character should work at a kangaroo petting zoo? Great!

Gabriel is still alive, but kidnapped by government agents to stop Noah from exposing X? Why didn't I think about that!

Alison's marriage dissolves after Cole comes out of the closet? Fantastic!

Whitney is Max's baby?  Another winner!

 

In Episode 3, Max specifically used the word "gift" to describe the $50,000 he was giving Noah.

Of course, that was from Noah's POV.

 

Is the Pope Catholic?

 

Yes, you are correct - he was a producer not a director. I wasn't questioning Noah's tendency to be a "whore"; that certainly seems to be in keeping with his character. It was just a curious choice since the ending was the one element that Noah struggled with. And I still believe that the choice of an ending will have wider consequences.

 

Thanks for confirming that Noah believed that the funds were a gift not a loan. (That's the only perspective that we have on that subject.) And yes, we know that Max is an asshole but I still think his presence at the party and the mention of the gift/loan will circle back around...somehow.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[Bcharmer]

Well, I'll rewatch the episode again tonight, but I swear on Noah's phone when he saw all the missed messages, it was spelled with two 'ells.'  And when Alison/Allison read the dedication, it was also spelled with two 'ells.'   That's why it bugged me.  Because I thought it was one 'el' but then people were spelling it with two on here, and then I saw the dedication and the phone.  Not a big deal, but weird that it happened like that. 

 

Actually, the show blew it with the phone. The first missed call was from "Allison," but the other missed calls showed it with one L.  Bad continuity. Really bad.  During the first season, many people here were spelling it both ways, but what determined it for me, were those POV introductions at the start of each half of the episode. Since I recorded each episode to watch later, I was able to go back and see how it was spelled there, and it was always with one L, which is also how they show it on IMDB. I wasn't even paying attention to the spelling in the book's dedication... but if I still have that episode on the dvr, I may go back to check.

[cardigirl]

I really was expecting Clooney to show up.  If he'll do some stupid coffee commercial with Danny Devito, why not this?

Awwww.  I like those commercials.  They make me laugh.  

[RedInk]

Thanks for confirming that Noah believed that the funds were a gift not a loan. (That's the only perspective that we have on that subject.) And yes, we know that Max is an asshole but I still think his presence at the party and the mention of the gift/loan will circle back around...somehow.

I think it was a "gift" when he was the hero millionaire helping his failure of a friend rush through his divorce and free up Helen. Now that Max's in the shadow of Noah's success, which is probably really uncomfortable for him, it's a "loan" that can certainly be easily repaid. I think Max could have only been friends with Noah all those years because he saw him as a loser; otherwise, he'd be seething with jealousy (as he seemingly is now).

I really disliked this episode...can't even think of anything to add! I was really enjoying this season more until the last two episodes, but now the characters don't make sense to me anymore. Too many changes in too few episodes maybe.

ETA: I'm not siding with Max here. Just saying I think he's turned on Noah since he's found success. Max likes to be the rich one.

Edited November 30, 2015 by RedInk

[ScoobieDoobs]

It wasn't supposed to be objective reality, according to Treem. They were the POVs you'd expect (Helen, Alison, Noah, Cole), just not labeled. I actually thought that was well-done, as each person was acting and reacting as they always do in their own POV segments, with Noah being an arrogant ass, Helen being a frazzled mom, Alison being a victimized/abandoned woman in peril, Cole being a brooding jerk dwelling in his own guilt.

 

Really?  So this was actually an ep with all 4 POV's?  I didn't get that at all, but I guess it's possible.

 

So was the doc actually Helen's Tinder date?  This was never spelled out, as far as I could tell.  Did I miss something?  Sheesh, when Treem is subtle, I don't follow her in the least.

 

So am I hate-watching this, as a poster asked earlier?  Me?  No.  Definitely not.  At least not yet.  I'm still along for the ride, Treem.  But I can't say I'm loving the direction you're taking this thing in, Treem.  Hazy, druggy, model-filled Entourage fuck party that looked like something out of a late-'60's or '70's flick?  Meh.  Cole burning down the house?  Double meh.  Alison giving birth, reminding me of Mia Farrow giving birth to a devil-baby?  Triple meh.  Whitney trying to shock us with chick-kissing & whatever else?  Yeah, another meh.  Look, Treem, just get Julia to stop with that freakin' awful ear-piercing screeching, will ya?

 

No, I'll tell ya about hate-watching.  I was hate-watching Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce for a while.  That show was an absolute complete & total mess.  Terribly written, badly miscast & with mostly horrible acting.  I just couldn't watch it anymore, it got so bad.  How it got renewed is beyond my understanding.  But Treem is way smarter & more talented than Noxon, who produces that show.  Despite the ridiculousness of this ep, I'll stick with Treem for the time being.

[NoWhammies]

Here's the thing about the $50,000 gift/loan from Max. I think it further illustrates what a self-involved shit Noah is. If I was down and out and someone gave me a monetary "gift" to get me through the rough times, and then I came into money, I would "regift" that money back to the person. Or at least give that person the option of getting the money back from me. $50K is no small amount, even for a rich douchebag.

 

We have "gifted" several people in my husband's family large sums of money when they've been in difficult circumstances - because I never give/loan money to family/friends with the intention of getting it back - that can just be too harmful on relationships. However, if any of them ever came back and wanted to return the money to me when they encountered better circumstances, I would accept the money back, because I wouldn't want them to feel indebted to me in anyway. But then, I'm not an asshole like Noah and Max.

[HumblePi]

As a married woman, I've never looked at Tinder but don't you see pictures of the person you are matched with?

Wouldn't Helen know what her Tinder date looked like? If so, then no way was the doctor her intended Tinder date.

A LOT of doctors talk badly about their patients and their patients family members. Like, way worse then calling them a "needy bitch". Doctors love a good "my patient is a dumbass/asshole/freak" story. It took me a long time to get used to the way a lot of docs talk about their patients.

I've been a nurse for decades and have never witnessed a doctor talking any smack about a patient or family of a patient. Maybe the ones I've worked with have been a rare breed of old-school professionals. Only a real dickhead like this doctor would be unsympathetic to a woman who's worried out of her mind for her daughter that is in the hospital receiving dialysis for failed kidneys. She's a 'bitch' in his opinion because she's a concerned mother?  What a giant douchebag he is. And guess what? If I was the nurse present when a doctor spoke that way, you better believe I'd call him out on it. Wrong is just plain wrong.

Edited November 30, 2015 by HumblePi

[Constantinople]

I thought Cole burning down the house was over-baked too.  I mean, seriously, Treem, why not put up a background image of David Byrne or play Talking Heads while you're at it?  Oy.

When I first watched Cole lighting the house on fire, I thought of him as the kid who piggy-backs onto David Byrne in the video.

Sadly, Cole is a little too young to be that kid.

[VioletMarx]

I guess I assumed that was the case when he received his Tinder message when he was at Helen's house. It seems too much of a coincidence otherwise that he was at that bar when Helen was there, and that he uses Tinder, and they made a point of him getting another Tinder message.

On Tinder, you see a photo of the person you're meeting. She would have recognized him.

[Mhl2016]

I'm giving Cole the benefit of the doubt. Yes, it's super dickish the way he reacted to Louisa, but he was just learning the news and was in a very emotional place. Not everyone reacts the right way at first but needs a while to process something first. And a lot of people think of how something affects them first, especially if they are already in a self pitying state.

As a caveat, I haven't actually watched the whole scene yet.

[Sheenieb]

Just finished the episode, and I was glad that Luisa refused to take Cole's shit. He was being a melodramatic, insensitive asshole. He didn't even bother to show any compassion about her infertility. It's all about his pain and stupid ass family 'curse.' He was making her issue all about him, and she was well within her rights to get his ass together about it. He isn't the only person in the world the universe has dropped a house on. The loss of a child is one of the worst experiences any one could could through, but that doesn't give him the right to monopolize tragedy. If he's serious about giving his relationship a chance with Luisa, he has to put his house in order.

 

Man, that producer was Grandfather from Gossip Girl. The actor cannot play anything else but asshole. He should teach a class.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Sheenieb

[ScoobieDoobs]

I'm giving Cole the benefit of the doubt. Yes, it's super dickish the way he reacted to Louisa, but he was just learning the news and was in a very emotional place. Not everyone reacts the right way at first but needs a while to process something first. And a lot of people think of how something affects them first, especially if they are already in a self pitying state.

As a caveat, I haven't actually watched the whole scene yet.

 

Watch it & then let us know what you think.  Like I said above, Joshua may be a hot nice guy.  He is not Cole.  He is an actor playing Cole   Cole is a solemn, unpleasant, unfeeling, self-absorbed asshole.  And very, very smug.  Ew.

[Adultosaurus]

 

Man, that producer was Grandfather from Gossip Girl. The actor cannot play anything else but asshole. He should teach a class.

 

He also used to be the de-facto Dad in random teen shows...never the main Dad, but some friend's Dad.  :)

[Boundary]

Don't get the Noah thing, is he supposed to be reaching rock bottom? Wasn't that last year when Helen kicked him out, he lost Alison and effectively lost his teaching job? Now what's the purpose of this arc of his? That whole party sequence was weird to me. Didn't he freak out last season when he discovered Alison dealing? And didn't he look on pitifully as Max bought some drugs from the taxi? Now, I don't remember Noah being envious of Max's lifestyle. So now he's rich and infamous, not only is he outdoing Max, he's brushing off a friend who helped him out more than a few times (okay, he slept with Helen but Noah doesn't know that). 

 

Eden obviously is out to sabotage Alison's relationship with Noah but Noah has now tried twice to get into her pants - can't casually brush it off now. The big questions now is why Alison kept him and did Whitney not rat him out? Did Noah discover the error of his ways and beg for Alison's forgiveness (will he forgive her when it's her turn to beg, when the paternity comes out?)? Most pertinently, why would success send Noah off the rails so much? I don't get this aspect of his character, it seems tacked on. So many question marks, I guess I don't get the big idea behind Noah's season 2 arc. I really don't. 

 

But I do get Helen's. Okay, the doc was a dickhead but didn't Helen ask not to be romanced? I was happy she was getting to enjoy the single life, albeit with a complication of sneaking around the kids. But then she started crying, expecting more from him I guess. Or maybe found less joy in the whole "one afternoon stand" thing. It felt like a retread to the Max scenario, she's still pining for Noah I suppose.

 

I felt Louisa had great points about Cole - from her POV of course. Even though he's gone through some rough stuff, he seems to be really egocentric right now. She is working very hard for a little gain, she throws a tantrum once in a while enough for him to take notice before it all goes back to square one. It gets tiring after a while. Interestingly for me, he was more functional last season before Alison left him, even after Gabriel's death. I think the affair devastated him more than that tragedy and, if so, Louisa might be fighting a losing battle if Cole is still pining for Alison, ala Helen situation.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Boundary

[Constantinople]

I'm wondering how Cole will get out from under an arson investigation.

[Bama]

I've been a nurse for decades and have never witnessed a doctor talking any smack about a patient or family of a patient

Maybe docs are less likely to gossip about patients with other HCPs? I have worked closely with close to 100 different docs over a 20 year career as an administrator/consultant and I could post story after story that docs have shared with me about patients and their families that would mortify those patients.

I didn't find what Martin's doctor said to be unrealistic at all from my experience.

[briochetwist]

 

But I do get Helen's. Okay, the doc was a dickhead but didn't Helen ask not to be romanced? I was happy she was getting to enjoy the single life, albeit with a complication of sneaking around the kids. But then she started crying, expecting more from him I guess. Or maybe found less joy in the whole "one afternoon stand" thing. It felt like a retread to the Max scenario, she's still pining for Noah I suppose.

 

I don't think she's pining for Noah at all, I think she's just having a hard time with all of the changes in her life.  She suddenly finds herself single, has a son with a terrible illness, a pain in the ass teenage daughter and two other kids.  That's a lot.  And whether they've got joint custody or not, there's no way that Noah is doing any of the heavy lifting in this relationship.  She's the mom, she's holding it together all on her own, no husband, no parents to help her, and it sucks.  I've been exactly there.  My divorce was amicable, no cheating, we grew apart and both wanted to end it, but it's still difficult to find yourself in a position like that and not wonder how the fuck you got there.

[Margherita Erdman]

I just want to see what Helen thinks/feels about Alison's pregnancy & the new baby. Surely she's known for a long time by now in the story arc — even if she hasn't seen Alison herself and even if Noah has been thoughtless enough not to discuss it with her, the kids know from their visits.

Seems like a gaping hole in storytelling to me — a pregnant Alison would be factoring hugely into Helen's struggles to make sense of and make peace with where she is in her life — and I say that as someone who is Helen's age, and even though I have a strong marriage and a kid who is NOT a brat — this is a time when you question your past choices and what lies ahead — it is a time when certain things (like more children, or fewer, or a new career, or a different educational path) aren't possible any longer, and your body is absolutely different from the one you lived in at 25 or 35.

So watching your asshole ex make a new life with an amazing new career, a younger woman, and a new baby would be devastating at a whole different level, leaving Helen behind with all the obligations of their former life together, and all the regrets that might go along with that. I know we're seeing some of that, but I feel we're being cheated of her specific reaction to the baby.

[truthaboutluv]

1) Who is the father?  I cannot unravel the timelines to point to Cole (the one-night visit), Scotty (eh?!), Noah (booooo....), Oscar (from the first season one-nighter).  Are there any other candidates?  Or has Alison exhausted all of Montauk?

 

I don't think the show has given any suggestion that Alison has ever slept with Scotty so that's not an option. Her one night stand with Oscar does not match the timeline. Alison slept with Oscar before Noah left Helen the last time, before she went on a retreat with Athena and Noah had his four month sex-fest and before the season finale's events. And this season picks up a few months after the events of the season finale. So there is no way, unless Alison is an elephant, the child could be Oscar's. It's pretty much Noah's or Cole's and in my opinion, it's looking very likely that it's Cole's. 

 

5) The Alison/Cole land has a thousand feet of waterfront property?  Yikes...how much is that worth?

 

Well if Noah and Alison's apartment is anything to go by and the speculation that she paid for it is correct, then I'd say a whole lot. And she still had enough money to even offer some to Cole after all that. It was also a little obvious the property was worth a decent penny with how desperate and obsessive Scotty was at trying to get Cole to convince Alison to sell.

 

Interestingly for me, he was more functional last season before Alison left him, even after Gabriel's death. I think the affair devastated him more than that tragedy and, if so, Louisa might be fighting a losing battle if Cole is still pining for Alison, ala Helen situation.

 

Well if you believe Cole's POV at the start of the season, it certainly seemed like he was still holding out hope for Alison to come back. However, I didn't get that feeling after they slept together when she returned and I didn't get that feeling from this episode. I especially thought the shot of him looking at Luisa's number on his hand after he and Alison slept together was significant. I don't think it's just Alison leaving that's destroyed Cole.

 

I think it's the combination of everything - Gabriel, Alison and the family's livelihood going to shit and his issues with them. When Gabriel died, much as he was dealing with his own grief, he still had Alison and I think he thought he had to be strong for her. And there was still the ranch and I guess the drug dealing (yes I am aware that's not actually a positive) to distract him. But now, in his mind he's lost everything and it's all hitting him at once. 

 

Watch it & then let us know what you think.  Like I said above, Joshua may be a hot nice guy.  He is not Cole.  He is an actor playing Cole   Cole is a solemn, unpleasant, unfeeling, self-absorbed asshole.  And very, very smug.  Ew.

 

YMMV but I think it's a little dismissive to just chalk any good feelings a person may have towards Cole's character on "Josh Jackson is hot and so you're distracted by the pretty." This is similar to some thinking some viewers still see him as Pacey. Just to speak for myself - yes I think Josh is a very good looking guy off the show but Cole looks a hot ass mess so no it's not the pretty distracting me. Two, I wasn't a Pacey/Joey shipper and didn't think Pacey was the greatest guy on any teen show like ever. I thought that pairing was overrated as hell and find the shippers still holding on about it annoying as hell.

 

So with that out of the way, for me personally, while I do acknowledge Cole's failings and thought Luisa was right on and he needed someone to say these things to him, I still empathize with all he's been through and lost because he has been through a lot. Yes, I do think he needs to stop feeling sorry for himself and move forward but frankly Cole has lost more than anyone else on the show.

 

Noah willingly blew up his marriage and life and is enjoying being the "bad boy of the literature world", Helen's husband left her which sucks but happens all the time and Alison lost her child which is absolutely awful. But Cole lost his child, lost his wife and lost his livelihood. I mean it's like the hits just kept on coming. So yeah, while I agreed with the tough love from Luisa, my heart also does still break for him and it's not because "Josh is hot...."

Edited December 1, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[cardigirl]

Okay apologies all around, I must have been having a senior moment or something. The dedication is with one 'el' and the phone only showed Allison once time. Sorry for the misinformation. I don't know what I was on....

Edited December 1, 2015 by cardigirl

[Blakeston]

Yet another reason for Max to now see the money as a loan is because his real motivation for giving Noah money was to speed along Noah's divorce. And he doesn't care about that anymore, because he isn't aching to get with Helen.

This isn't a prediction, but it wouldn't surprise me too much to find out that Max had something to do with Whitney being at the party. She recently made that comment about how she doesn't want Helen to call him Uncle Max - the obvious explanation was that she knew Helen was banging Max, but I suppose it could have meant something else. Whitney also made an ambiguous comment about Max last season, although I don't remember what it was.

[Ellaria]

This was a great post...

Okay...I need some help here:

1) Who is the father?...

2) Who ran down Scotty? ...

3) Whatever happened to the buried drugs...or was it drug money...lost in the first season?

4) Is Whitney the coolest, most divisive, annoying character in a night-time soap in several decades?

5) The Alison/Cole land has a thousand feet of waterfront property?  Yikes...how much is that worth?

 

1. Judging by the ham-handed closing, I think its safe to say that Cole is the baby daddy.

2. I'm throwing Max into the discussion but I think that's a long shot.

3. Buried drugs were conveniently skipped over.

4. Yes. Something happens every time she is on screen

5. Beachfront property in Montauk would be worth millions.

 

I'm wondering how Cole will get out from under an arson investigation.

 

I detect sarcasm...

Of course, there won't be an arson investigation. It will never be mentioned again.

[HumblePi]

I'm wondering how Cole will get out from under an arson investigation.

That scene of Cole in a burning house and the scenes of Alison in labor in the hospital were just too impossible for me to believe. The shot of Cole standing there like Teflon-man in the midst of a raging inferno just doesn't make sense to my brain. He would have been on the floor unconscious from smoke inhalation long before the entire house was in flames. Alison being alone in intense labor didn't make much sense either. Is that young doctor who said she's 33 but looks 21 the only one working in that particular hospital? Don't they have any nurses hanging around or at least nurse's aides? This whole episode was a real stretch for anyone's imagination.

[CleoCaesar]

My favorite episode of the season so far. There was so much going on it felt more like two episodes.

 

Helen’s doctor was indeed hot, but an asshole. The faux-niceness on the phone followed by “needy bitch” would have turned me off permanently.

 

Noah is so awful at this point that I’m not even fazed by it anymore. I’m delighted to see his epic love with Allison be so weak it can’t survive more than a year.

 

I’m kind of rooting for Allison and Cole to get back together, even though she’s a cheater and he’s kind of a drama queen. Plus I like Luisa.

 

Allison?  Whatever.  I hate birth scenes. They aren't as interesting as many shows seem to feel they are.

 

Preach it.

[truthaboutluv]

Whitney also made an ambiguous comment about Max last season, although I don't remember what it was.

 

 

She thought something might be going on between Max and Helen, which is why I still think that's what her look was about when she told Helen not to call him Uncle Max. That look was the classic side-eye in my opinion and sort of a, "seriously..." I really think she knew about their brief relationship or whatever it was and that's what her comment was about.

[grumpypanda]

I just want to see what Helen thinks/feels about Alison's pregnancy & the new baby. Surely she's known for a long time by now in the story arc — even if she hasn't seen Alison herself and even if Noah has been thoughtless enough not to discuss it with her, the kids know from their

I wish they would have shown us Helen's initial reaction to the pregnancy too. From Helen's perspective Noah didn't just leave her, he left their family because he “didn't want this life anymore."

It had to be devastating to learn that Noah didn't want the family life with her and their four children yet he wanted it with Alison and the new baby.

Of course we know that Noah doesn't really want his new family life either and Helen might have caught a glimpse of that in the last episode but it still had to hurt like hell.

I wish we could have seen Cole's reaction too. When did he even find out and by who?

I'm guessing that when Cole found out the baby was born in March or late February he assumed the baby wasn't his because he wasn't with her at that time. Maybe he didn't know that Alison had the baby five weeks early. I can't imagine Cole thinking the baby might be his and not doing something about it.

Edited December 1, 2015 by grumpypanda

[izabella]

I think it was a "gift" when he was the hero millionaire helping his failure of a friend rush through his divorce and free up Helen. Now that Max's in the shadow of Noah's success, which is probably really uncomfortable for him, it's a "loan" that can certainly be easily repaid. I think Max could have only been friends with Noah all those years because he saw him as a loser; otherwise, he'd be seething with jealousy (as he seemingly is now).

 

Being that it's Noah's POV, I wonder if Max actually isn't jealous of Noah's success.  Maybe Max is just pissed that his $50k to Noah was all for naught since he didn't end up getting Helen, and Noah is looking at it from his self-centered view that Max is jealous.

 

So was the doc actually Helen's Tinder date?  This was never spelled out, as far as I could tell.  Did I miss something?  Sheesh, when Treem is subtle, I don't follow her in the least.

 

I was the one who made that assumption, but he wasn't her Tinder date.  As a few have pointed out, she would have seen his picture on the app.

[briochetwist]

I wish they would have shown us Helen's initial reaction to the pregnancy too. From Helen's perspective Noah didn't just leave her, he left their family because he “didn't want this life anymore."

It had to be devastating to learn that Noah didn't want the family life with her and their four children yet he wanted it with Alison and the new baby.

Of course we know that Noah doesn't really want his new family life either and Helen might have caught a glimpse of that in the last episode but it still had to hurt like hell.

 

 

I honestly think that Helen knows that he doesn't want this baby.  She knows him too well.  

Edited December 1, 2015 by briochetwist

[nara]

Is that young doctor who said she's 33 but looks 21 the only one working in that particular hospital? Don't they have any nurses hanging around or at least nurse's aides? This whole episode was a real stretch for anyone's imagination.

 

I saw two possibilities:  1) the hospital is very short-staffed due to the hurricane and so only one person is available to attend to Alison, or 2) Alison, the unreliable narrator we know and love, feels alone, so she only remembers the one hospital worker who makes her feel less alone.

[izabella]

That scene of Cole in a burning house and the scenes of Alison in labor in the hospital were just too impossible for me to believe. The shot of Cole standing there like Teflon-man in the midst of a raging inferno just doesn't make sense to my brain. He would have been on the floor unconscious from smoke inhalation long before the entire house was in flames. Alison being alone in intense labor didn't make much sense either. Is that young doctor who said she's 33 but looks 21 the only one working in that particular hospital? Don't they have any nurses hanging around or at least nurse's aides? This whole episode was a real stretch for anyone's imagination.

 

That stuff makes more sense if you think of each of those scenes as being from Allison and Cole's POV.  Allison paid attention only to that doctor, and her own thoughts and pain, so that's how she sees it - she was all alone except for the doctor.  I'm sure there were nurses checking on her, but they didn't register with her.  As for Cole in the inferno, he very well might have gotten out of the house sooner while the fires were small, but to him it felt like an inferno or he remembers it that way.

[VioletMarx]

What kind of an asshole with an eight months pregnant fiancé and four children abandons his cell phone to go into a meeting during a hurricane?

A: Noah

[Ruby25]

How old is the baby during the present day trial stuff? Are we getting close to the present timeline?

[HumblePi]

What kind of an asshole with an eight months pregnant fiancé and four children abandons his cell phone to go into a meeting during a hurricane?

A: Noah

Noah, his spawn, and about 75 other a-holes.

That stuff makes more sense if you think of each of those scenes as being from Allison and Cole's POV.  Allison paid attention only to that doctor, and her own thoughts and pain, so that's how she sees it - she was all alone except for the doctor.  I'm sure there were nurses checking on her, but they didn't register with her.  As for Cole in the inferno, he very well might have gotten out of the house sooner while the fires were small, but to him it felt like an inferno or he remembers it that way.

That's surely giving a whole lot of dramatic license.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I just want to see what Helen thinks/feels about Alison's pregnancy & the new baby. Surely she's known for a long time by now in the story arc — even if she hasn't seen Alison herself and even if Noah has been thoughtless enough not to discuss it with her, the kids know from their visits.

Seems like a gaping hole in storytelling to me — a pregnant Alison would be factoring hugely into Helen's struggles to make sense of and make peace with where she is in her life — and I say that as someone who is Helen's age, and even though I have a strong marriage and a kid who is NOT a brat — this is a time when you question your past choices and what lies ahead — it is a time when certain things (like more children, or fewer, or a new career, or a different educational path) aren't possible any longer, and your body is absolutely different from the one you lived in at 25 or 35.

So watching your asshole ex make a new life with an amazing new career, a younger woman, and a new baby would be devastating at a whole different level, leaving Helen behind with all the obligations of their former life together, and all the regrets that might go along with that. I know we're seeing some of that, but I feel we're being cheated of her specific reaction to the baby.

 

Interesting thoughts, but not especially relevant to this ep cuz we didn't get anyone's reaction to the baby.  Not even an indifferent shrug from dickface Noah.  All Treem gave us was a hazy, overly dramatic birth scene straight outta Rosemary's Baby.  I was expecting to see the cursed Lockhart devil-baby with little red horns & a pitchfork.  Oh, I know we've seen she's not a devil baby, but the way this played out, it sure seemed to be leading up to that.

 

Last ep, Helen stole the baby's pacifier.  We can assume she did this to be DNA tested.  And then we saw her listening oh-so-intently to the shittiest high-paid lawyer ever, Jon Gottlief, saying to her "she stole your husband."   Hmmmm, could this be just a teensy-weensy hintie-poo on what Helen thinks about the baby (and/or Alison)?

[Constantinople]

Look, Josh Jackson seems like a very nice guy & he's quite attractive.  I get how viewers wanna like Cole cuz Josh is a nice attractive guy.  And Cole is still hurting cuz of the death of his child.  This is extremely understandable.  In spite of this, Cole is a smug asshole.  He's treating Luisa like absolute shit.  This isn't unbelieveable.  Women all over take being treated like shit by men all the time.   Ugh, it's something I don't understand & never will.  I just hate watching this kinda crap.  Cole has made it understood he will NEVER move to the city.  So if these 2 get together, she is gonna have to move out there & change her life considerably.

Just as Cole would have to change his life considerably if he moved to New York City, but I don't think that makes Luisa an asshole. Not everyone wants to live in a city, and not everyone who does wants to live in such a large city. Sometimes adults just have different goals or desires that make them unsuitable for one another. It doesn't mean one of them is necessarily a bad person.

Besides, between burning down the house and making Luisa's inability to have children about his family curse, Cole had no shortage of asshole moments in this episode.

[ScoobieDoobs]

What kind of an asshole with an eight months pregnant fiancé and four children abandons his cell phone to go into a meeting during a hurricane?

A: Noah

 

The same kind of asshole that knowingly leaves his 18 year old daughter at some sleazy drug-den fuck party without caring one bit how she is.  If he was embarrassed, as a poster earlier suggested, at Whitney seeing him naked (and possibly with a boner or jerking off), he coulda covered up quickly and gotten the fuck over it.  OK, it's a hurricane & he couldn't get her outta there.  But sheesh, he coulda at least made sure she was OK.  Dickhead.

[Irlandesa]

Maybe docs are less likely to gossip about patients with other HCPs? I have worked closely with close to 100 different docs over a 20 year career as an administrator/consultant and I could post story after story that docs have shared with me about patients and their families that would mortify those patients.

My best friend is a doctor and she has complained about some of her patients, just as my mother (a teacher) used to sometimes complain about her students and their parents and I've complained about co-workers/patrons.  I think venting when frustrated is normal.

 

What pushed him past "understandable venting" to "asshole" for me was the way he threw in "bitch" at the end.  If it were me, that kind of loaded comment without knowing anything about the person saying it would be a massive turnoff. 

 

Do you think the doctor is about the same age as Helen? I couldn't really tell. I hope she doesn't try to talk herself into liking him with all the red flags.

The actor is about ten years younger than Maura so I would guess he's supposed to be in her age range.

With regards to Cole burning the house, while I'm not saying it was okay in any way, I do think he said to Luisa at one point that Alison was planning to knock it down or break it down or something to that effect. Because I imagine it's really the land that was very valuable and whoever was purchasing it is probably some millionaire or billionaire who is going to likely build some massive, fancy private property or maybe open a beach-side inn, etc. 

Alison wasn't planning knocking it down.  Cole just assumed that the new owner likely would knock it down and build.  That is probably true but at this point, it's not Alison or Cole's choice to make and could, in fact, jeopardize the sale.  I know if I were buying the property, I likely would want to pay less. 

[KittyS]

More lazy writing: the Atlantic hurricane season runs from June 1 - November 30. It's highly improbable that there would be a big hurricane in NY in February / March. But I guess they needed a big dramatic reason for Noah to miss the birth, in addition to the fact that he's a first rate asshole. I'm just waiting for Scotty to come back from the dead and this show will have achieved soap opera levels of cliche.

[LibertarianSlut]

I found it interesting that this episode wasn't shown through anyone's specific POV. I guess we are to take everything that happened as fact.

  

Some people are referencing "So-and-so's POV" while talking about this episode but the way I interpreted it, this episode departed from the POV format. There were no title cards announcing it was anyone's POV, and it was instead based around what the characters were doing at particular times during the day. It showed Alison at 12 pm at first, and then Helen at 1 pm at the cafe, and so on through the night. So I think this episode was meant to show "reality," not someone's memory.

I totally agree with the above posts. To my mind, it was clear the writers were departing from the normal format of the show, and giving us all objective reality for once. "Objective reality" isn't unprecedented on this show. It's usually during the court scenes that happen in the present day. How does the show signal to us that it's objective reality? By not putting someone's name on the screen prior to the scene. Well, we didn't get anyone's name on the screen in this episode. In addition, as iggysaurus points out, we're given a time line of the day. That's even more evidence that we are seeing what is actually happening, and not someone's perspective of what happened. For the posters who are writing about person X's POV, can you advance your theory as to why you think this episode portrayed POVs, despite the change in format? If you don't think the change of format meant the loss of POV, what, if anything, did you think it was intended to portray? I'm asking because I really want to know; not challenging anyone for challenge's sake.

Lord knows I think Noah's a dick, but I don't think doing some blow at a party moves him along on the dick meter. He also took a hit off of a pipe at some point. I couldn't care less whether that pipe contained weed, crack, or cherry-flavored tobacco. I see recreational drug use as an individual liberty. It's no better or worse than drinking alcohol, which is a drug. If Noah had even a shadow of a thought that he might have to leave the party to rush to Alison's bedside, he should have been moderate. But he already left the phone in the car, so that train has sailed; what does it matter if he gets turned up? Getting behind the wheel was unforeseen and beyond the pale. What really made Noah a dick x1000 to me this episode is that he literally didn't take the five extra seconds it would have taken to find his phone on the floor of the car when he has a very pregnant fiancé two hours away, and a debilitating hurricane is heading both their ways. I know every adult is responsible for their own choices, but Eden is a horrible influence, knowing his circumstances, and still urging him not to look for the phone because...there are cars behind them? Damn, Noah is so weak. It's part of what makes me hate him. If there are cars behind an adult, he pulls over to find his phone. A little boy just listens to the self-interested piece of ass in the passenger seat, with no thought that people might be counting on him. If Eden were truly a professional, she wouldn't want her client's personal life spinning out of control. She would know that could easily take his head out of the game. But oh yeah, she doesn't care. She wants to sleep with him.

I know he's not popular, but I loved the evil doctor. Yes, he was definitely a dick, but he was a dick who shows you he's a dick right away, and doesn't surprise you about the fact he's a dick 20 years and four kids in. His day-drinking and muttering "needy bitch" took me back to Dr. House, M.D., whom I love, although he behaves horribly. I hate how doctors are usually depicted as such saints. They're not. He had me lol'ing when he said he'd rather drown than watch Babe with Helen's kids. Wow, an adult on TV--a successful pediatric practitioner in fact--who is not in love with other people's kids! I thought there were a few of us left wandering this earth...the only thing he did that was in truly poor taste, to me, was pulling out his phone and telling Helen he'd just gotten an alert on Tinder. Dude. By all means, go out and get your freak on, but this goes into the category of something the woman you just banged who is crying really, really doesn't need to know.

This is relatively minor, but I thought the writers were too elaborate in Luisa's explanation as to why she's infertile. The doctor who screwed up her uterus whilst trying to remove a fibroid the size of a grapefruit was a quack from the black market, and she went to said quack because she didn't have health insurance at the time? Who goes to a black-market doctor because they don't have insurance???? Why not go to the county hospital like everyone else without insurance? They'll treat anyone, regardless of the legality of their status. And yes, you'll run up a $30k bill, but if you prove impoverishment, they'll take about $25k off your bill, and let you pay off the rest at a rate of about $10 a month. Why couldn't Luisa just be infertile because of awful fibroids that were eventually removed by a legit doctor? Why did the writers need her to go to the black market? Late-night soap indeed.

Wow, this episode had a lot of doctors in it.

[HumblePi]

Here are two minor things that I found interesting in this episode. I wonder if they will play into the events surrounding the murder and beyond.

 

• The director at the party - Callahan (?) - wants Noah to change his book's ending for the movie: eliminate the murder and instead use Noah's preferred ending of a "couple with a great secret between them." What was the purpose of that discussion other than to affirm that Noah was correct in his hesitation to end the novel with the murder?
• At the party, Max reminds Noah that he owes him $50,000. I didn't get the impression that Max was "loaning" Noah the money. It sounded like Max was doing whatever he could to move the divorce - and his relationship with Helen - forward. Was Max just being an asshole or is he not quite as wealthy as he pretends?

 

Max is a continual presence in the perimeter of the story. I see no purpose in having him appear at the party other than to remind the viewer that he is rich, well-connected and likes to have a good time. It is causing me to think that he is going to play a role in the events surrounding Scotty's murder.

Max came to mind immediately when Scotty told Cole that he hooked up with some big hedge fund guy to start up his nightclub. Max is a hedge fund guy, and they're all scumbags. Didn't Max get his cocaine from Scotty when he went to Montaug to party with Noah? Maybe the two of them had a continued drug connection.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HumblePi

[nilyank]

 

More lazy writing: the Atlantic hurricane season runs from June 1 - November 30. It's highly improbable that there would be a big hurricane in NY in February / March. But I guess they needed a big dramatic reason for Noah to miss the birth, in addition to the fact that he's a first rate asshole. I'm just waiting for Scotty to come back from the dead and this show will have achieved soap opera levels of cliche.

 

 

They should have made it a surprise blizzard storm. That would been believable.

 

I don't think Cole has no idea that Alison is pregnant. He probably won't find out until his wedding when Noah mentions the child.

 

I didn't have a problem with anything Luisa said to Cole except about turning his back on his family and Scotty is taking care of them. As if Scotty would be taking care of anyone but himself.

[Milburn Stone]

 It's hilarious to me that in the wake of Treem talking about how the writers love Noah so much they keep making him a worse and worse human being.

 

I felt sympathy for Noah at the point he gets back to his car, finds his phone, realizes what's been going on, tries to drive back to the city, fails, and confronts that because of his priorities he's missed what ought to have been one of the most important moments in his life. That was self-awareness going on there. I can't hate a character who has that moment of truth.