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Tara Ariano

S02.E09: 209

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Whitney was in that pool so that she could be the one to rat Noah out to Allison.

We see that Cole has been saving a pile of money from his taxi driving.  Maybe that's the money he uses to buy the Lobster Roll, he doesn't take any money from Allison.  I don't think he'll take money from Allison because he's guilty about Gabriel's death.

Louisa isn't so great.  She's just a rebound girl.

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Yes, she was. She said to him "bad things have happened to me too, but I put one foot in front of the other." Which is comparing pain, comparing responses to trauma and saying she's better then he is. No, he didn't respond well to what she shared, because obviously it triggered strong emotions for him. And then Luisa went off on him and made it about a bunch of other stuff, including that he drives a cab and isn't financially supporting his family. It seems pretty clear to me that both he and Alison are suffering from PTSD after their son's death. It really sucks when people's reaction to your PTSD is "wow, you're such a loser/such an asshole."

ITA She was totally unleashing the old Bootstrapper Beatdown on him. I can do it and if you can't then you suck.

 

He lost a child not that long ago and was still not fully over the fact that his wife cheated on him and left him. Lets not forget that he finally saw how messed up and toxic his family was. No, Luisa it's not at all his job to support them. Thanks, though. She said that she now sees that he will always blame her whenever something goes wrong. Probably? In the same vein I'd say that he can be sure that he'll be getting heaping cup fulls of her judgy scorn on the regular as well.

 

BTW I've never been a Cole fan. I find him creepy and unlikeable and hard to figure out but not so interesting that I'd really spend much time trying. Burning the house down was just one of his many poor choices. I think of him always the way he was at his family's Thanksgiving dinner. Just cynically laughing and all defeated. 

Edited by DiabLOL
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The waitress wasn't being snide - viewers of a certain age who date on social medial are going to feel that way, though.  The waitress was in cahoots with Helen about Dr. Hottie's hottness.  Tinder is a hookup app...that's not really up for debate.

 

I'm not sure what your point is.  OK, everyone knows Tinder is a hookup app -- even my 95 year old grandma.  So what?  The waitress suggested Helen should be using Match & I thought she implied it was more age appropriate for Helen, rather than Tinder.  To me, it seemed like an insulting, ageist, stupid remark, written by Treem.  

 

My point was the waitress was dead wrong.  Tons of people Helen's age & older use Tinder.  But this may not be a cut on Helen's age at all.  Just a wrong assumption by the waitress -- that Helen shouldn't be using a hookup app and/or she didn't know what she was doing.  The waitress should mind her own fucking business.  Maybe Helen knew what she was doing & wanted just a hookup.  Or maybe it could be a cut on Helen's age, with the waitress assuming someone Helen's age couldn't possibly want only a hookup.  I'm just saying I'm not entirely sure what was going on there.

 

It wasn't about it being Clooney's (in your mind as a fan of the man) scene.  It was about removing yourself from that and thinking about it from Noah's standpoint as an author who has written a book that appeals to the middle-aged mind.

 

Seriously - Daily Mail?

 

The CHARACTER of Noah would respond to Clooney.  You are projecting real life into this drama.

 

Sure, why not Daily Mail?  Leo is in there every day with various hot models.  And if you don't wanna believe Daily Mail, I could name a zillion other sources.  Leo lives the Entourage lifestyle of the party shown.  But that's just a mostly irrelevant aside.  Personally, I think he would be a far better choice to play Noah than Clooney, who's too old now.  

 

Hey, they threw around Jennifer Lawrence's name, why not Leo too?  And given Ben Affleck & his nanny games, why not him too?  They both could appeal as much or more to Noah than Clooney to play him.  They're both younger & better-looking & have way more hotter careers than Clooney, who has past his peek.  You are wrong about Clooney -- as far as being a power player in Hollywood?  Not so much anymore.

Edited by ScoobieDoobs
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I don't think Whitney making out with a girl is any more or less subtle or interesting than with a boy. Either way, to have naked Dad leering at you from across a shared hot tub would be more shocking than the electrical storm.

 

Allison was smiling when she had a moment alone with the new baby who she had screamed all night that she couldn't possibly deliver without Noah. But thanks to the doctor, who did not leave her, she did. I'm hoping she will now see all the other great things she can do without help from the most skeevy  character on the show.

 

Maybe the age factor is becoming more significant to the main characters. Last episode we saw Noah being surprised when Helen described his behavior as anodyne as a midlife crisis; this episode we notice a 33 year old doctor looks young to Allison and are subjected to a lot of intergenerational banter about Tinder and Match. The writers seem to be framing or reframing some of the characters' angst as fear of aging or perhaps in Helen's case, fear of turning into her mother.

 

I can't resist noting that after the Tinder and Match round, Cole set a match to Allison's tinder. 

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So Eden was waiting in a bedroom for Noah? Bet she regrets making him wait 15 minutes. At first I thought Witney was a hallucination because it seems too much of a coincidence that he would see both her and Max there. Did Max bring her there or tell her about the party?

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However, the salient point is that the baby was "5 weeks early" but sure looked full term...

Exactly. The baby wasn't early - it was only early to Alison's delusional mind that wants to believe the baby's Noah when she probably knows very well she's not.

How do you guys figure? From what we saw earlier in the season, Noah left Alison alone in Cold Spring to sort out his divorce; some time later (days? weeks?) Robert tells her that she's fired, she tries unsuccessfully to reach Noah, then goes to her Montauk house and sleeps with Cole. The next time we see Alison and Noah together we learn that they haven't seen each other in six weeks, and Alison is already pregnant. If I understood that timeline correctly, Cole was the last person Alison slept with before her self-imposed break from sex. So either the baby really was premature, and the show used a full-term baby because preemies aren't exactly photogenic, or Alison was hoping the baby would be Cole's but it's really Noah's. I'm leaning towards legit preemie because her OB/GYN would have estimated the date of conception and put it into her file when she went for her first check-up, no?

Regarding the rest of the episode: it floored me how casually Noah snorted the cocaine when it was offered to him. I already had a very low opinion of Noah, but I didn't expect that. And then naked Noah approaching two girls making out and it turns one of them is his daughter?!?! Yuck, yuck, yuck! BTW, I don't think it was Max who got her into the party but the "photographer" she told Helen about last episode. Noah had observed earlier that there were a lot of "models" at the party.

I'm so disappointed that Helen keeps having bad sex. I'm OK with the doc being a bit of a jerk - in fact it would be totally unrealistic that in NYC a man who is successful and a good guy would be single - but I was really hoping the sex would be hot. The fumble in the basement - meh.

I know we were led to believe that it's Luisa Cole marries on the day that Scotty dies, but they just seem so dysfunctional together. I guess Cole burning down the house is supposed to symbolize a new beginning for him, but how often do people with such deep-seated issues just do a 180? And now we know it's not going to be a shotgun wedding.

Edited by chocolatine
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Noah's storyline has gone crazy bananapants. That party so did not belong in this show, I thought at first that Noah had to be hallucinating it. Seriously, WTF? Suddenly Noah, Max and, of all people, Whitney are at some Entourage-esque party where one of the expected guests is George Clooney? Sorry, not buying it.

On the other hand, I liked Helen and the doctor. He made me laugh. I have dealt with surgeons before in my life and there is a definite subset who have similar attitudes (think a less abrasive Rocket Romano). But based on the way he handled Martin's shot and Helen's emotional meltdown, I think he would be good for them. Both Helen and those bratty kids need someone who can stay even-tempered and not overreact to their continual melodramatics, and he was great at that. And I thought the basement sex looked like fun.

I knew that Luisa shouldn't have taken Cole back, even after his apology, and he went ahead and proved me right. I guess we are supposed to view this as Cole's Big Moment when he chooses life or whatever, but I just don't think he and Luisa really work as a couple. Her big speech did come off as though she was playing the "who has stoically suffered the most" game, and I don't think that's ever going to lead to a healthy relationship.

And congrats to Alison on finally accomplishing something by delivering her baby without her coked-up, oversexed True Love in attendance. Unfortunately, she'll probably let him in the room with them eventually.

So, both the male characters had their rock-bottom moments simultaneously. Now that that's over with, my guess is we are going to see Helen and Cole moving on with their lives while Noah and Alison are trapped in the bad choices they made. Alison's baby is a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode when someone figures out who's the daddy, and I interpret Whitney showing up at the party to mean that as much as Noah may long to be the literary bad boy and toast of New York, he's still stuck dragging around his nice-ordinary-guy domestic life.

Edited by Anne Elk
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Noah was bad this episode but I didn't think he was the worst.  Eden hiding his phone?  So childish.  And what was up with him happening to run into both his daughter and Max at the same hurricane party? 

 

 

I really hope previous encounters like this aren't why Whitney didn't want Helen to call him "Uncle Max" last episode.  I'd much prefer it be because she knew Helen was dating him, not because she's been going to wild parties with him.  

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I agree with all of the negative things that have been said about the Noah character.  My reaction to him is really more ad hominem, I guess.  I cannot see Treem (or any other producer/director)  choosing Dominic West for this kind of role.  I suppose he is good-looking in some sense, but I have always found him somewhat off-putting and here I find him physically repellent, more and more so every week as we get to see more of the sex scenes and nudity.  ( I felt the same about him as the detective in The Wire.)

 And why does he seem to be getting more and more tan in each episode, no matter the season?

 

IMO, he was perfectly cast as the serial killer in Appropriate Adult, but not as a guy who would have attracted Allison or any of the succeeding younger women who have been throwing themselves at him (although at this point they are admittedly attracted by his fame and supposed wealth.)

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Well, that wasn't terribly subtle. (Allison + Cole + baby)

 

Yeah, the show has really gone on a "descent" (pun intended) into turgid melodrama.  It's a real shame.  Now I'm eyeing the exit, looking for the moment I can break away from it without being pulled back by curiosity, like I did with Nashville for several episodes before I found a good spot to make a clean break.

 

I don't think the waitress was being snide at all.  Tinder IS a hookup app.

 

But why would she assume fortysomthings can't have hookups?  Isn't that in fact exactly what Helen ended up doing?

I've never used Tinder (although I met both of my wives online) but I assume you can enter an age range you are looking for, and people can always swipe left if they don't think you look young and hot enough for them--right?

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Sorry to bring up the Millennial discussion in this thread too, but it was brought up in this ep.  So that server gal snidely said to Helen how Tinder is for Millennials, whereas Match would be for divorced people like her (translation -- oldsters over 40 like Helen).  Really?  Who says?  Is server gal speaking for Treem & her crew in this POV?  I know zillions of 40-plus-ers who use Tinder.  Even Andy Cohen, who is 47, says he uses it all the time.  Is this Treem (who I still think is kinda/sorta a Millennial herself) mocking us over-40's again?  Guess it's just me (silly old, old, old over-40 me) & I'm projecting & plenty will disagree.  Well, at least those under 40 will probably disagree.

 

  

I don't think the waitress was being snide at all.  Tinder IS a hookup app.

I actually think the waitress was being genuinely helpful and not snide. Helen did not appear to know much about these dating/hookup apps. She didn't recognize the name OKCupid and didn't seem to realize how popular Tinder is. She also looked very uncomfortable to me about the whole situation. The waitress picked up on that and suggested another site that would be better aligned with Helen's needs and comfort level.

  

  

And what's next for Whitney, Treem?  Hooking?  Stripping?  Porn vids?  Yawners on this track, Treem.

 

Max?  What is there to say?  Treem & her crew know how to write major league assholes.

  

Actually, finding someone she likes at Williams was probably the incentive Whitney needs to go to college.

Can we have some sort of redemption arc for Max please. He is becoming boring in his boorishness.

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How do you guys figure? From what we saw earlier in the season, Noah left Alison alone in Cold Spring to sort out his divorce; some time later (days? weeks?) Robert tells her that she's fired, she tries unsuccessfully to reach Noah, then goes to her Montauk house and sleeps with Cole. The next time we see Alison and Noah together we learn that they haven't seen each other in six weeks, and Alison is already pregnant. If I understood that timeline correctly, Cole was the last person Alison slept with before her self-imposed break from sex. So either the baby really was premature, and the show used a full-term baby because preemies aren't exactly photogenic, or Alison was hoping the baby would be Cole's but it's really Noah's. I'm leaning towards legit preemie because her OB/GYN would have estimated the date of conception and put it into her file when she went for her first check-up, no?

I wasn't actually referring to her last hookup with Cole. When Alison told Noah she was pregnant, they hadn't seen each other for 6 weeks. Therefore, he had to believe she was at least 6 weeks pregnant. If she is actually 11 or more weeks pregnant at the time, perhaps it puts it into the time frame of when she was still having sex with both Noah and Cole (and Oscar). It would also explain why she looked bigger than normal during her pregnancy.

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Can anyone tell me if Martin was being a baby about the injections or if they really do hurt that much?  I don't have enough experience in that area to judge.

 

Compared to the symptoms of Crohn's disease, the Humira injection is a piece of cake and yes, both Martin and Helen were being stupid about it. What's worse? 10 seconds of anxiety and slight discomfort or days of doubled over pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea?  Humira is a very expensive drug. My brother in law injects Humira for plaque psoriasis. Without insurance, the drug sells for around $3,400 a month. My brother in law pays over $1300 co-pay with his insurance.

 

I've been giving myself abdominal injections of Lovenox which is an anti-coagulant for 14 days following knee surgery. I've also been self-injecting vitamin B-12 monthly for years. Lovenox has to be injected into the stomach but Humira could be given in either the stomach or upper thigh which is a lot less painful. Self-injecting is not painful when done correctly. Helen and Martin would definitely have been given instructions on how to do the injection prior to leaving the hospital. They could have watched a video online  on how to do it step-by-step. The needle is very small and thin and it's only being injected sub-cutaneous not in a muscle. I can't believe that Helen, who thinks of herself as a perfect mother, would not do everything possible to make sure both she and Martin were totally comfortable giving the injections.

Edited by HumblePi
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Some time after the episode ended, I fell asleep with the TV still on.  I woke up to the sounds of Cole's son asking his dad to join him in the water, Alison giving birth and Cole burning down the house.  The phrase "Audrey Rose" popped into my head.

 

That's when I realized I wasn't watching The Affair, but The Reincarnation of Gabriel Lockhart.

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And that's why I was asking -- so what outlandish stuff is Treem gonna go for next with Whitney?  I'd like it to be something more interesting & maybe subtle.  This character is all over the place.

 

Whitney appears whenever something shocking needs to be introduced. It seems to serve overall plot purposes more than a character arc. 

 

Allison was smiling when she had a moment alone with the new baby who she had screamed all night that she couldn't possibly deliver without Noah. But thanks to the doctor, who did not leave her, she did. I'm hoping she will now see all the other great things she can do without help from the most skeevy  character on the show.

 

I was glad when she didn't immediately let Noah into the room with her and the baby. It will be interesting to see how she moves from this moment to the one immediately preceding Noah's arrest when they look like a happy, trendy couple. 

 

So Eden was waiting in a bedroom for Noah? Bet she regrets making him wait 15 minutes. At first I thought Witney was a hallucination because it seems too much of a coincidence that he would see both her and Max there. Did Max bring her there or tell her about the party?

 

Noah's storyline has gone crazy bananapants. That party so did not belong in this show, I thought at first that Noah had to be hallucinating it. Seriously, WTF? Suddenly Noah, Max and, of all people, Whitney are at some Entourage-esque party where one of the expected guests is George Clooney? Sorry, not buying it.

 

For a moment, I also thought that seeing Whitney was a hallucination. I still think that it was too much of a coincidence that Whitney and Max were at the party. 

 

Yeah, the show has really gone on a "descent" (pun intended) into turgid melodrama.  It's a real shame.  Now I'm eyeing the exit, looking for the moment I can break away from it without being pulled back by curiosity, like I did with Nashville for several episodes before I found a good spot to make a clean break.

 

Yes...the book's title is appropriate. I don't know where Noah's story line is going. Why did he need the weird experiences of the naked hurricane drug party - seeing Whitney in the pool, missing the baby's birth - to realize that he is headed down a destructive path? 

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I think the only reason Whitney was making out with a girl instead of a boy is because they needed a reason for Noah to enter the hot tub. If he saw a man and women kissing from across the room I doubt he would have even noticed them. The point was pervy Noah was hoping to get in between the two girls and make it a threesome.

I didn't mind the party scene and I didn't think it was out of character for Noah to do the coke. The big shot producer offered it to him and he wanted to impress him just like he gave the producer props for coming up with the happy ending to the movie. Noah has proven himself to be a follower in every way.

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At this point we're just hate-watching this right?

 

Whitney JUST HAPPENS to be at the same celebrity party in the Hamptons as her father, making out with her girlfriend while he ogles them?

 

Cole gets drunk on moonshine and sets his ex wife's house on fire? 

 

Helen has sex with her son's surgeon in her basement while her three kids are upstairs? 

 

And I used to think Homeland was the most far fetched thing on Showtime. 

 

Is there anyone in this group of people who isn't a self destructive asshole?   I will give kudos to Allison for not letting Noah in to see their daughter. 

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 I liked the doctor, and thought his behavior was absolutely realistic for a surgeon.  I would love it if he'd be a regular on the show, in a weird way I think he'd be good for Helen, and the kids. 

 

That party went on way too long.  I was so bored (watching in real time, couldn't FF), I actually started reading a book.  Thank goodness I looked up in time for the Whitney appearance.  I knew there was something that would happen to make Noah run out into the storm. 

 

Much as I like Louisa (and her straight-talking), her story WAS NOT FUNNY.  But - wasn't there mention in an earlier episode that Cole was  also remarried with a child? 

Surgeons aren't the type of doctor that staff an emergency room. Usually they're 'in the house' and the surgeon on-call will take the emergency surgery. Realistically, a doctor doing E.R. duty wouldn't actually follow a patient to do the surgery. It's assigned to a surgeon. Dr. Ullah looks like a real whiskey-loving loser. He's more interested in having sex with the mother of a patient than he is about professional ethics. His attitude towards the woman on the phone 'a real bitch' was a clue that this guy is a jerk and not interested in a relationship. All he wants is sex.

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I'm not sure what your point is.  OK, everyone knows Tinder is a hookup app -- even my 95 year old grandma.  So what?  The waitress suggested Helen should be using Match & I thought she implied it was more age appropriate for Helen, rather than Tinder.  To me, it seemed like an insulting, ageist, stupid remark, written by Treem.

 

 

I agree with the poster above that I honestly interpreted this as the waitress reading Helen's body language and thinking this was not something she really did and so she may not have been aware that that's all people really see Tinder as. Because she gets to the table and Helen basically says the person's not coming and infers that it was some type of blind date. The waitress guesses OK Cupid which Helen has never heard of and then she says no, it's Tinder, in a voice that makes it clear I think, that it's not something she's really used to or aware of. Then she sort of confirms that by saying it's her daughter that put her on there and the waitress asks her how old is her daughter and she says 18.

 

I think from all that the woman just immediately inferred that Helen's probably newly divorced, getting back into the swing of things and has no clue that most of the people she would meet on Tinder aren't really interested in anything more than a hookup. Now was it presumptuous to assume that's not all Helen herself may be looking for - sure. But I can see how someone who talks to people all day, observes stuff could have come to the conclusion the waitress did about Helen, that Tinder may not be what she's really after. I don't think it means she thinks older women never use it. Just that it's probably not what Helen is really looking for. But YMMV.

 

At this point we're just hate-watching this right?

 

 

No...hate-watching is a waste of my precious time. 

 

With regards to Cole burning the house, while I'm not saying it was okay in any way, I do think he said to Luisa at one point that Alison was planning to knock it down or break it down or something to that effect. Because I imagine it's really the land that was very valuable and whoever was purchasing it is probably some millionaire or billionaire who is going to likely build some massive, fancy private property or maybe open a beach-side inn, etc. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Small point, but it is driving me nuts.  Alison or Allison?  On Noah's phone and the inscription of his book, Descent, says Allison.  The cast list (on Showtime and IMBD) says Alison. AAAAAAugh!!!!

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It was very sensitive of the waitress to tell Helen that Tinder is a dating site more suited for the 'millennials' instead of saying 'younger' generation. Match.com is more suited for divorcees and singles over 40. This is one reason that I saw Dr. Ullah as a sort-of perverted sex addict. He's looking to hook up with women 20-35, OR divorced and desperate for sex lonely women.


Small point, but it is driving me nuts.  Alison or Allison?  On Noah's phone and the inscription of his book, Descent, says Allison.  The cast list (on Showtime and IMBD) says Alison. AAAAAAugh!!!!

One 'L' , Alison

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Whitney are at some Entourage-esque party where one of the expected guests is George Clooney?

 

Yeah Clooney may have attended a party like that 10 years ago.  And depending on when this was supposed to take place, like a year or so ago I take it, he was either dating or engaged to Amal.  If he wanted to talk to Noah they could meet somewhere in NYC.  Not at some idiot party all the way out in the Hamptons during a hurricane. 

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While I can understand how some interpreted Luisa's anger as her being judgmental, I didn't think she was looking down at Cole's driving a cab like it's not good enough or saying he is obligated to take care of his family. All she was saying is that he wasn't doing anything period. The beginning of their scene has her asking him what he's going to do now that the house is all packed up and most definitely being sold. He had no idea and he needed to leave in like a day.

 

Then she asks him if he's willing to move to the city because sounds like she has a new job that's going to make it harder for her to be the one to come see him all the time and it's not like he has anything really keeping him in Montauk since he hates his family and the home he shared with his ex-wife is now gone. He states a resounding no. His answer is just an "I'll figure it out..." Then she shares a horrible part of her life with him when he talks about kids and he makes it all about himself. 

 

I just think Luisa was going for some tough love. Again, I like Cole and absolutely sympathize and empathize with him but at some point you have to pick yourself up and just take one step at a time and keep moving forward. It doesn't mean you're absolutely healed, that the pain isn't still there but you can't stay stuck or else you never move forward and you never move on. 

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Small point, but it is driving me nuts.  Alison or Allison?  On Noah's phone and the inscription of his book, Descent, says Allison.  The cast list (on Showtime and IMBD) says Alison. AAAAAAugh!!!!

Daaamn! Noah doesn't even know how to spell her name? Now that's cold! ;)

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I thought the George Clooney name drop was an implication not that George hangs around trashy sex parties but that he is just SO interested in playing the amazing character Noah created. I do think George is too old for that character, but Leo isn't quite at the age yet where he plays mid-life crisis characters is he?

The waitress telling Helen to check out match instead of tinder read as patronizing to me too. People do use tinder for actual dating and not just hookups. The only dating app I've used for just sex is grindr. What bugged me more about that scene was the waitress referring to millenials. I have literally never heard anyone use that term in everyday conversation. I'm sure other people have different experiences, but I know (and work with) a lot of 20+ year olds and never have heard them refer to themselves that way either.

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It was very sensitive of the waitress to tell Helen that Tinder is a dating site more suited for the 'millennials' instead of saying 'younger' generation. Match.com is more suited for divorcees and singles over 40. This is one reason that I saw Dr. Ullah as a sort-of perverted sex addict. He's looking to hook up with women 20-35, OR divorced and desperate for sex lonely women.

One 'L' , Alison

I agree about the waitress and Helen, I actually liked that scene between them.  

 

Why are you so certain about the one 'l' ?  Just wondering.  Thanks!

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The problem is the nature of the show has been changing.  The charm of "The Affair" was that you had both points of views – the cheating man and the cheating woman – for the same happenings.

This season you have more than just those two people's point of view, which has been good.  But not necessarily over the same happenings and less so in the later episodes.

Last night was a complete break from formula and it was totally plot driven.  A plot driven TV show is often of lesser quality.

 

At this point we're just hate-watching this right?

 

Whitney JUST HAPPENS to be at the same celebrity party in the Hamptons as her father, making out with her girlfriend while he ogles them?

 

Cole gets drunk on moonshine and sets his ex wife's house on fire? 

 

Helen has sex with her son's surgeon in her basement while her three kids are upstairs? 

 

And I used to think Homeland was the most far fetched thing on Showtime. 

 

Is there anyone in this group of people who isn't a self destructive asshole?   I will give kudos to Allison for not letting Noah in to see their daughter. 

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Noah's storyline has gone crazy bananapants. That party so did not belong in this show, I thought at first that Noah had to be hallucinating it. Seriously, WTF? Suddenly Noah, Max and, of all people, Whitney are at some Entourage-esque party where one of the expected guests is George Clooney? Sorry, not buying it.

 

This!  That lame-ass, Hugh Hefner-like party was like something out of the 1980's with the wall to wall dancing models and the cocaine being laid out in heaps - honestly, I kept waiting to see the producer (in his 50's at least and still doing coke?  And he's a success in Hollywood?) use a coke spoon that he wears around his neck on a cunning chain.  I call bullshit on the whole scene, including the Whitney crap.  Max at the party?  Okay, but stretching it.  Max AND Whitney at the party?  They're turning this thing into Dynasty.     

And congrats to Alison on finally accomplishing something by delivering her baby without her coked-up, oversexed True Love in attendance. Unfortunately, she'll probably let him in the room with them eventually.

 

I don't even get the feeling that she loves him, but I do believe that Alison wanted a child badly no matter which loser is the father.  She seems to have been extremely happy despite the Lockhart family crap when Gabriel was alive.

So, both the male characters had their rock-bottom moments simultaneously. Now that that's over with, my guess is we are going to see Helen and Cole moving on with their lives while Noah and Alison are trapped in the bad choices they made. Alison's baby is a ticking time bomb just waiting to explode when someone figures out who's the daddy, and I interpret Whitney showing up at the party to mean that as much as Noah may long to be the literary bad boy and toast of New York, he's still stuck dragging around his nice-ordinary-guy domestic life.

 

I'm having a hard time believing that this is really Noah's rock bottom.  I can see him feeling disgusted by himself in lieu of the Whitney shock, but other than that?  I think Noah is WAY too in love with himself to to actually put the blame for his action ON himself.  When the description of this episode indicated that Noah has his comeuppance, sorry, I didn't see any comeuppance - just frustration and self-pity.  

I've been waiting for the Norman Mailer comparison since the moment Noah was called a literary bad boy.  I'm not sure there is such a thing any more (the last one I remember was Brett Easton Elllis - puke - and that was in the 80's where the party belonged).  And if there is still such a thing, it wouldn't be Noah - he's too old.  Also, to compare that crappy writing and even the topic of Descent to Mailer's early, highly politically charged, insightful and NOT erotic/porny work is ridiculous.

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the Humira injection is a piece of cake

 

Here's a thing that makes me nuts (in life, not in the show). Because our health care system is so fucked up, all follow-up care falls onto the shoulders of the patient's family. So poor Helen, with no medical training at all (despite all those years nursing and doc-ing at County General, heh) is the person charged with giving Martin his injections. Doesn't matter if she's not suited to it. Doesn't matter if needles freak her out, it's her job, and not doing it makes her Monster Mom. Now, of course I think that Martin is certainly old enough to do his own injections, which he should have been taught by the prescribing doctor, but that's not even my point. I'm sure I'm not alone in the commentariat as someone who got the gig of doing care of this nature for an ailing parent thrown into my lap. It didn't freak me out and from a practical standpoint I didn't mind, but from a philosophical standpoint I did. More unpaid labor for women, is what it is. [/rant]

 

On another topic, it is considered uninformed to pronounce 'Nabokov' with the stress on the first syllable, (despite the Police song). It's a shibboleth of sorts, and you signal your inner echelon-ness with a 'NaBOCKov'. So I'm wondering if we're meant to understand that producer-dude isn't as well-read as he claims, or whether that's a failing of the show's.

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I agree about the waitress and Helen, I actually liked that scene between them.  

 

Why are you so certain about the one 'l' ?  Just wondering.  Thanks!

Here's the link to the IMDb website where it lists the characters. They spell her name 'Alison' and it's spelled that way on just about every website. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2699110/

 

I have to add that Doctor Ullah is an insensitive SOB. He showed his true colors when he took a phone call from the mother of a young girl that's dependent on kidney dialysis in the hospital. He was sweet on the phone with the mother, reassuring her that the hospital has backup generators for her dialysis machine but once he hung up he said "needy bitch". What kind of doctor would do that? One that's an asshole, that's what.

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Here's the link to the IMDb website where it lists the characters. They spell her name 'Alison' and it's spelled that way on just about every website. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2699110/

 

That's why I listed IMDB and Showtime's website.  I thought Alison with one 'L' was correct too.  Just very surprised to see it spelled with two 'ells' on Noah's phone messages and in his dedication of the book.  Maybe the showrunners aren't up on every detail.  ;) 

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Daaamn! Noah doesn't even know how to spell her name? Now that's cold! ;)

 

That's why I listed IMDB and Showtime's website.  I thought Alison with one 'L' was correct too.  Just very surprised to see it spelled with two 'ells' on Noah's phone messages and in his dedication of the book.  Maybe the showrunners aren't up on every detail.  ;) 

Whether Alison spells her name with one 'L' or two is just another symptom at how little he really cares about Alison. Sometimes knowing the smallest details about someone you love means more to them than just telling them you love them. Not that being aware of the correct spelling of her name is a small thing, it's not. It's just an indication of how selfish and shallow Noah really is. 

 

I think it was stupid of Noah to use her name in the dedication of his book at all since he was still married to Helen when it was published. If he stands by his word that it's 'fiction', using Alison's name in his dedication just makes that claim invalid. Does he have any right to object when people draw the obvious comparisons of his so-called 'work of fiction' to his real life and live-in pregnant girlfriend Alison? Noah is so eager to be successful that he's willing to forego any principles he might have had and agree to bastardize his own successful novel just to please a Hollywood producer.

Edited by HumblePi
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Here's the link to the IMDb website where it lists the characters. They spell her name 'Alison' and it's spelled that way on just about every website. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2699110/

 

I have to add that Doctor Ullah is an insensitive SOB. He showed his true colors when he took a phone call from the mother of a young girl that's dependent on kidney dialysis in the hospital. He was sweet on the phone with the mother, reassuring her that the hospital has backup generators for her dialysis machine but once he hung up he said "needy bitch". What kind of doctor would do that? One that's an asshole, that's what.

 

I've decided to go with the 2 - L version of her name due to it being shown on the actual show.  It would be funny if they would have Alison/Allison make a comment regarding this topic to clear it up once and for all.  However, I would have thought if it was spelled wrong in the book dedication she would have mentioned it in her Thanksgiving dinner rant.

 

I guess I'm giving the Doc a little more leeway in his handling of the worried mom.  He was very sweet and understanding on the phone with her and reassured her everything would be fine.  And really, the mom didn't know a hospital doesn't just shut down when the power goes out???  I've worked in a field where people get emotional and worked up, asking the same questions over and over and it does get frustrating to have to patronize them.  So, I can see him venting a little when getting off the phone, but it would have made more sense to do so with a co-worker or a spouse, not with a woman you've met twice.  I'm not ready to write him off as a bad dude yet.

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Doc was Helen's Tinder date, but he let her sit by herself waiting for him and let her think he had stood her up even though he was right there a few feet away from her.  And then he didn't tell her he was her Tinder date, until he got the Tinder match in front of her while at the house.  That makes him a lousy guy in my book.

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It's spelled Alison with one L in closed captions so I've just gone with that. I was bugged by the fact that Helen hadn't been insisting on the injections. Bowel perforation, much? I think she could have troubleshooted more. Hell, I'd have Alison do it before I just gave up. Helen has enough money to have a medical assistant come by. I give myself weekly injections of methotrexate and though it's not fun it's over pretty quickly.

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Doc was Helen's Tinder date, but he let her sit by herself waiting for him and let her think he had stood her up even though he was right there a few feet away from her. And then he didn't tell her he was her Tinder date, until he got the Tinder match in front of her while at the house. That makes him a lousy guy in my book.

What makes you think the doctor was Helen's Tinder date? I didn't get that at all but maybe I missed something. I think the doctor is a dick too and I was hoping to see Helen with a nice guy. I didn't like the way he said he'd rather drown than hang out with Helen and the kids. He could have found a more tactful way to leave without being an asshole. He might be hot but he's bad news. I can't imagine him having a real relationship with Helen given all her baggage but we'll see I suppose.

Edited by grumpypanda
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Whether Alison spells her name with one 'L' or two is just another symptom at how little he really cares about Alison. Sometimes knowing the smallest details about someone you love means more to them than just telling them you love them. Not that being aware of the correct spelling of her name is a small thing, it's not. It's just an indication of how selfish and shallow Noah really is. 

 

In all fairness, I think it's more likely sloppiness on the part of the show runners, not something that Noah has actually done. As someone else mentioned, Alison/Allison would probably have called it out at some point if it was a real issue in the show. It's more likely a lack of attention to detail by the producers or whoever is responsible for continuity across all media channels.

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What makes you think the doctor was Helen's Tinder date? I didn't get that at all but maybe I missed something. I think the doctor is a dick too and I was hoping to see Helen with a nice guy. I didn't like the way he said he'd rather drown than hang out with Helen and the kids. He could have found a more tactful way to leave without being an asshole. He might be hot but he's bad news. I can't imagine him having a real relationship with Helen given all her baggage but we'll see I suppose.

 

I guess I assumed that was the case when he received his Tinder message when he was at Helen's house.  It seems too much of a coincidence otherwise that he was at that bar when Helen was there, and that he uses Tinder, and they made a point of him getting another Tinder message.

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Noah was just awful this episode. I knew that was going to be Whitney! Kind of odd her Dad would just leave her there but I guess she's 18. Just seemed really off.

 

 

I think most fathers put in that position would run too.  How could he look her in the eye?  So gross. 

 

I think they made a point of announcing that Whitney was now 18 when the waitress asked Helen how old her daughter was.  That way at least Noah wasn't being as negligent leaving his daughter there as he would be if she  were under age.

Edited by Lemons
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Some people are referencing "So-and-so's POV" while talking about this episode but the way I interpreted it, this episode departed from the POV format. There were no title cards announcing it was anyone's POV, and it was instead based around what the characters were doing at particular times during the day. It showed Alison at 12 pm at first, and then Helen at 1 pm at the cafe, and so on through the night. So I think this episode was meant to show "reality," not someone's memory. 

 

It wasn't supposed to be objective reality, according to Treem. They were the POVs you'd expect (Helen, Alison, Noah, Cole), just not labeled. I actually thought that was well-done, as each person was acting and reacting as they always do in their own POV segments, with Noah being an arrogant ass, Helen being a frazzled mom, Alison being a victimized/abandoned woman in peril, Cole being a brooding jerk dwelling in his own guilt.

Edited by taragel
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So yeah, he's been dealt a really shitty hand but at some point you can't keep wallowing and feeling sorry for yourself and that's really what Cole was doing. He's basically just been sleepwalking through his life since the separation with Alison and his family losing the ranch. And it's time he lets go and put one foot forward as Luisa told him. And clearly he did that if his appearance in the courtroom in present day was anything to go by. And hell maybe if he'd stopped feeling sorry for himself for a minute he'd have done the math on that baby

I dont think Cole knows about Alison's pregnancy at the time of the move--otherwise he wouldn't have been so pissed about alison not showing up to do the packing.

Also not getting the baby bwing early thing. Mathwise, if she's trying to cover up the paternity question, she wants the baby to be further along, not early. And she was sleeping with them simultaneously plus Oscar a LONG time before this because of the jumps in time. Am I missing somethjng? I do get a little confused with the timeline.

I also think it's 1L because her waitress name tag was 1L.

I couldn't help but think about my own pregnancy when Noah couldn't find his phone. My husband was crazy about having his phone on him throughout all 3 of my pregnancies, especially the last trimester. For him to be away during a hurricane and not be glued to his phone is pathological in my mind.

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Yeah, I don't know why Noah couldn't take the few minutes to find his phone before leaving the car, especially since he already knew someone was trying to reach him. The car was stopped and they were getting out to go to the party.  That's the perfect time to look under the seats. 

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As a married woman, I've never looked at Tinder but don't you see pictures of the person you are matched with?

Wouldn't Helen know what her Tinder date looked like? If so, then no way was the doctor her intended Tinder date.

What kind of doctor would do that?

A LOT of doctors talk badly about their patients and their patients family members. Like, way worse then calling them a "needy bitch". Doctors love a good "my patient is a dumbass/asshole/freak" story. It took me a long time to get used to the way a lot of docs talk about their patients.

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Sorry to bring up the Millennial discussion in this thread too, but it was brought up in this ep.  So that server gal snidely said to Helen how Tinder is for Millennials,

 

Very few people under the age of 25 have even heard of the term "millennial".   The term was probably coined by middle aged ad men.  So it was stupid for the waitress to even say it.  As dumb as if the waitress had said "you Generation X people should use match.com!"

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As a married woman, I've never looked at Tinder but don't you see pictures of the person you are matched with?

Wouldn't Helen know what her Tinder date looked like? If so, then no way was the doctor her intended Tinder date.

 

Yeah, haven't used it, but pretty sure you swipe on the pictures you like. I thought him using Tinder was just supposed to signify that he was the type of guy who would use that instead of Match despite his age because he was slightly immature and shallow and/or only looking for a hookup and not a mature relationship. (Not to say anyone who uses Tinder is shallow or immature...just think that might have been the implication they were going for.) 

 

I was surprised Helen actually took him into the house where her kids were in the living room to have noisy basement sex and then let him come up into the kitchen, when they were in the next room, and wasn't trying to really be discreet or hustle him out the door. Then she somehow seemed surprised that he was caught/seen by one of the kids, too, and didn't even have a cover story. 

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It's spelled Alison with one L in closed captions so I've just gone with that. 

 

Yes, it's spelled "Alison" - not only in the closed captions (and on IMDB), but also when they display on screen who's POV it will be. From the first episode, it's been spelled with one L.

Edited by Bcharmer
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"snip"

 

Can anyone tell me if Martin was being a baby about the injections or if they really do hurt that much?  I don't have enough experience in that area to judge.

 

I did both Enbrel and Humira. Im a grown up (I think) and I dreaded my injections. I would do them in my belly just the way TV Dr. did and they were awful. The syringes hold a lot of stuff and its not a quick injection....I felt his reaction was very TTL

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And she was sleeping with them simultaneously plus Oscar a LONG time before this because of the jumps in time.

 

Well maybe the baby is just legit early/preemie? My assumption has been that Alison slept with Cole early on during her "break" with Noah and thus she genuinely doesn't and wouldn't know which one was the father based on the conception/due date because she slept with one one week and the other the next, thus she didn't actually fudge the timing to Noah, because A)he's a narcissist who would never bother to do any math, and b)wouldn't assumed she cheated on him during the break. But if she told Noah a date five weeks in the future that should have made him at least go eine minuten bitte...I feel like if Noah had seen any way in which the baby wasn't his he'd have weaseled out of the relationship.

 

 

It's just another sloppy note in Treems annual lets go full daytime soap narrative.

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