S09.E11: Heaven Sent

[Tara Ariano]

Part 1 of 2. The Doctor faces his greatest challenge in the form of a fearsome creature known only as the Veil.

[Triskan]

Wow, that was something !

 

Too soon to delve further into the episode, but damn, that was a performance !

[foreverevolving]

That ending!

That's all I have to say right now.

[ApathyMonger]

Well, that was intense. I was spoiled on the episode being Capaldi solo by clicking on the Wikipedia page a few weeks ago, and have been looking forward to it ever since. Definitely lived up to my expectations.

 

I think the only problem is that next week's hour-long finale is almost certainly going to be a disappointment in comparison.

 

So, does that last line mean that it's canon that The Doctor is half-human?

Edited November 28, 2015 by ApathyMonger

[Triskan]

Well, judging by next week previews, I dont expect to be disapointed ! ^^

 

I wont say anything about them if you want to remain unspoiled ! :)

 

And yeah, in the end, my main question after the episode is "how is the Doctor a hybrid" ? Meta-Ten was half-human, ok, but he wasnt the Doctor... at what point did the Doctor received DNA of another species ? Cant remember from Nu-Who at least ! 

 

But it will probably, in the end, be a twisted choice of word for something else !

[Chip]

So, did he really keep being created by the teleporter or was that some sort of illusion inside the disc? Because if so, we are working with a many million year old copy of the Doctor now. That's a pretty good hard drive he was stored on...

In the 1996 movie, they alluded to the Doctor being half-human, but they never really followed up on that.

[alrightokay]

I really hope that very last line was just a trick--please let it be a misdirect; otherwise, this was one of the very best episodes ever.  The Doctor became Sisyphus and confronted the big existential fears that you wouldn't think a Time Lord would worry about (the realization that death is waiting for you; how and why to go on, when life seems absurd; how to make meaning of one's absurd existence).  "That's one hell of a bird"--I can't imagine anyone else but Capaldi pulling that episode off.

[HauntedBathroom]

I think what happened in the confession disc was only in the Doctors head, but it was real to him, so expect him to be very pissed next episode.

 

I'm just delighted to see the silly hat brigade back!! If Ohila is on Gallifrey, apparently as part of the council, is this the first confirmation that the books idea of the Sisterhood of Karn being outcasts from Gallifreyan society is canon?

Edited November 28, 2015 by Chip
spoilers for next week

[Triskan]

Anyone though the "Hybrid is me" line could actually be misdirecting and it's "Me" with a capital M, aka Ashildr ?

[Occasional Hope]

Brilliant, intense, scary - and at time incomprehensible.

[John Potts]

ApathyMonger So, does that last line mean that it's canon that The Doctor is half-human?

Chip In the 1996 movie, they alluded to the Doctor being half-human

 

 

That was my thought on "The Doctor = The Hybrid". I also thought the thing chasing him would turn out to be either the Dream Lord or The Valeyard - assuming they're not the same person (which they might be). And was that Skaro or Gallifrey at the end (I'm sure it's one or the other).

 

However, I kept thinking "I'm pretty sure that spade will be more effective at mining through a diamond wall than your fists!" Even if it wore away to nothing after a mere five centuries or so and didn't regenerate on each death, it'd at least be a start.

 

But other than that, I thought it was a pretty impressive performance from PC.

[elle]

Brilliant, intense, scary - and at time incomprehensible.

From the review on theguardian.com

A confession: the first time I watched Heaven Sent, I barely had the faintest clue what was going on. And I’m a professional fanboy, and so if I am flummoxed, it’s a little terrifying to contemplate what keen viewers such as, say, my mum, have made of this.

 

If a reviewer was confused, I don't feel so badly.  What I love is the comment about "mum", love that Who is a generational show!

 

That was my thought on "The Doctor = The Hybrid". I also thought the thing chasing him would turn out to be either the Dream Lord or The Valeyard - assuming they're not the same person (which they might be).

I was guessing the Dream Lord too from the previews plus seeing  "Amy's Choice" again this past week.

Edited November 28, 2015 by elle

[ApathyMonger]

From the review on theguardian.com

A confession: the first time I watched Heaven Sent, I barely had the faintest clue what was going on. And I’m a professional fanboy, and so if I am flummoxed, it’s a little terrifying to contemplate what keen viewers such as, say, my mum, have made of this.

 

Having read the review, he seems fairly confused after a repeat viewing too. He doesn't seem to get that the bird was just part of the metaphor/story, and that there wasn't a literal bird pecking at the diamond in the castle?

Edited November 28, 2015 by ApathyMonger

[elle]

Having read the review, he seems fairly confused after a repeat viewing too. He doesn't seem to get that the bird was just part of the metaphor/story, and that there wasn't a literal bird pecking at the diamond in the castle?

It is? or Is it?

 

He did say he was flummoxed.  

[penguinnj]

Is the guardian reviewer saying we are in the last days of the time war?  If they want to use the Nightmare Child I could see that (didn't that child kill Davros?  Have to rewatch soon) and the Skaro Degradations (the sewers I guess), but what about the Could've Been King?  

Another tour de force from Capaldi!  And, frankly, I love this way of getting past appropriate C;are mourning by the doctor.  it's been millions of years so he should really be able to get on with it.  2 thumbs up!

Edited November 29, 2015 by penguinnj

[Lokiberry]

So, did he really keep being created by the teleporter or was that some sort of illusion inside the disc? Because if so, we are working with a many million year old copy of the Doctor now. That's a pretty good hard drive he was stored on...

In the 1996 movie, they alluded to the Doctor being half-human, but they never really followed up on that.

They need to clarify whether it was an illusion or if the real Doctor is dead and this is just a copy. I have a bad feeling that this is one of those times when Moffat gets too excited over a "cool" idea, and fails to notice the huge, gaping plot holes he's leaving behind, and then the audience has to fanwank over them.

[foreverevolving]

I think it was all an illusion, and the doctor isn't really over a million years old. I think it was more like a dream- it felt real, but physically wasn't.

[PWHCHCH]

I really enjoyed this episode! The realisation that every skull in the water was that of the Doctor was really eerie. Well done.

[tankgirl73]

Even if it is all perfectly really real, the current Doctor is just as 'real' as the millions of copies before him. The Ur-Doctor, you might say, the very first time through the puzzle, was disintegrated by the teleporter, stored in the pattern buffer, and then made fresh (as it were). In other words, whenever you're teleported, you're already a copy. The latest copy is just as legitimate as the first copy. And he's not a billion years old, either. The cycle has been going on for a billion years, but he's only aged a little bit.

 

And I think the notion that "the hybrid is Me" means Lady Me, is a good one. Where did we last see his confession disc? She took it from him. And then somehow it ended up on Gallifrey. Not sure yet how we get from there to here -- was the actual teleport to Gallifrey in the first place? How did the confession disc get there? Who actually commissioned Me to kidnap the Doctor?

 

But why would she want to 'conquer' Gallifrey anyway? That makes no sense... so I'm not sure that it's the right interpretation but it's an intriguing one to think about.

 

Anyway, the episode was great. I was actually really proud of myself, I figured out that he was stuck in a loop early on. When his own clothes were waiting for him, I realized it was just from his previous attempt. Other clues led me to believe he was leaving messages for himself. And then they quite clearly showed that the skull matched Capaldi's face and fell in with the others. I've read Steven King's Dark Tower series, and -- spoiler alert -- in the last book there's a similar big reveal. So I was "primed" for this kind of story, I guess.

 

But even though I'd figured out that aspect of the plot, when it went into the accellerando montage I was still stunned. I expected something like the great ST:TNG episode where the Enterprise keeps blowing up, making a new time loop, but things are a little different each time as bits of memory start to break through time. I expected each iteration of the Doctor's hell to be slightly different, he figures out more each time and leaves himself better messages so the next copy starts further ahead. Nope, just thousands... millions... billions of years of exact repetition. My jaw was on the floor. And it wasn't until well into the montage that I grasped that he was chipping away at the wall and that's why he was punching it in the first place and then he finally finished the story of the pecking bird and I swear I started to get teary-eyed!!  That was amazing!

And then the ending! Holy smackers. When he first found the wall and it said "Home" I thought "OMG this is somehow how he gets to Gallifrey" but then he said "The Tardis" and even though I knew the Tardis was still on Earth and well-decorated, well whatever, he'll figure it out... and I forgot about Gallifrey. When he sent off the kid I was like OMG IS HE ON GALLIFREY WHAT IF THIS IS GALLIFREY COULD MAYBE THIS BE GALLIFREY OR WHAT IF ITS SKARO OMG OMG OMG IT IS GALLIFREY!!!!

 

Man I need to rewatch the whole season again now, and watch every tidbit about the confession dial, the hybrid, and look for more clues. I was expecting this episode to be a great tour de force from Capaldi, but I still wasn't prepared for the last 10 minutes to blow my mind like that.

[jch323]

 

And I think the notion that "the hybrid is Me" means Lady Me, is a good one. Where did we last see his confession disc? She took it from him. And then somehow it ended up on Gallifrey. Not sure yet how we get from there to here -- was the actual teleport to Gallifrey in the first place? How did the confession disc get there? Who actually commissioned Me to kidnap the Doctor?

That does make a lot of sense, particularly considering The Doctor's unwillingness to allow Me to travel off-Earth.

[tankgirl73]

Oh, and the Doctor totally has a Mind Palace. And his Mind Palace is the Tardis of course. Even though it's Moffatt borrowing from himself, I love it. It's perfect.

 

And there had been previous supposition that in an earlier episode when the Doctor said "it was the longest month of my life" when he thought Clara had died, it was actually after her Raven death in the Doctor's timeline. I'm not sure how that would all work out, logically, but it's an intriguing idea and the understatement of the century if it's true.

Edited November 29, 2015 by tankgirl73

[elle]

There is a moment in the first 20 minutes or so where The Doctor says (approx.) "and what am I without an audience".  Does PC give a quick side glance directly at the camera or did I imagine that?

[MDL]

Some help please. I missed the beginning of the episode (damn work schedule) and I tuned in as the doctor was plummeting towards the water, but was also in the TARDIS with Clara (or ghost Clara?) writing cryptic comments on a blackboard. I watched, and more or less understood what happened but shortly after the Doctor broke through the diamond (?) and crossed over onto Galifrey, the damn phone rang, and the only partly heard the dialogue. My questions: what occurred at the beginning of the episode, and at the end what was that disc that the  Doctor had with the miniature of the castle – that he gave to the kid, and what did he say to the kid.
Thanks in advance. If there is a link to something that would address these questions I'd also appreciate that.

[Rhetorica]

Best episode this season. I liked his sole (soul?) dialogue along the way. So he's, what, 7 billion years old now and died thousands of times? Looks like they played him, as a child, like they did the master. If this was reality.

[Morrigan2575]

There is a moment in the first 20 minutes or so where The Doctor says (approx.) "and what am I without an audience". Does PC give a quick side glance directly at the camera or did I imagine that?

Yes he did and it totally took me out of the scene. I hate when Twelve breaks the 4th wall, I think this is the 3rd or 4th time they've done it.

[Lantern7]

Meh episode saved by a great idea. Maybe I'm not used to the Doctor being alone. Still, a great way to end an episode and lead into the season finale. With our luck, it'll end with Clara b-slapping Me, then ascending to the heavens . . . but I'd like to be optimistic.

[flyingdi]

Did the whole castle set remind anybody else of the video game Myst?

[elle]

Some help please. I missed the beginning of the episode (damn work schedule) and I tuned in as the doctor was plummeting towards the water, but was also in the TARDIS with Clara (or ghost Clara?) writing cryptic comments on a blackboard. I watched, and more or less understood what happened but shortly after the Doctor broke through the diamond (?) and crossed over onto Galifrey, the damn phone rang, and the only partly heard the dialogue. My questions: what occurred at the beginning of the episode, and at the end what was that disc that the  Doctor had with the miniature of the castle – that he gave to the kid, and what did he say to the kid.

Thanks in advance. If there is a link to something that would address these questions I'd also appreciate that.

Short answer - google "Heaven Sent Doctor Who", you will have your choice of recaps and reviews.

 

Little bit longer answer - The disc at the end turns out to be his "confession disc" , it changes from the castle to the Time Lord circles, we saw last handed to Ashlidr/Me.  He tells the kid to find someone in charge in the city and tell them that "he" is back and the he knows what they did.

 

The explanation of the beginning bit with him in the Tardis is that he is "in his mind" his storeroom as he calls it (think safe place), he sees Clara writing (actually hears) the questions on the blackboard.  She's there because as he says what is he without an audience.

 

Thanks, Morrigan2575!

Edited November 29, 2015 by elle

[Chaos Theory]

Without reading and being influenced by anyone else's review I am trying to decide if I like this episode or not. Peter Capaldi is hardly my favorite Doctor but I found him entertaing in this episode. Then again I always did enjoy one person plays. I liked the concept of The Doctor being locked for anwell lets just say a long long time in a prison if his own nightmares. I liked the ending where detain parts repeated and changed slightly. I even liked the brief Clara moment. I also liked the ending where he said that nothing if half Dalek. The Daleks would never allow it. The hybrid destined to conquer Gallafrauan and stab in its ruins is him.

[bmoore4026]

Capaldi needs an Emmy right now!

[PWHCHCH]

I think this will go down as one of the greatest episodes of the revived Series. I was a little confused where they were headed but once they got there in the last 10min it was fantastic.

[benteen]

I guess I'm alone here but I thought that episode sucked. I can see why a single-hander hasn't been attempted before but it's boring as fuck. You want to see a good, minimum Who? Watch Episode 1 of The Mind Robber. This was just a boring pile of shit and proof to me that I'll never warm up to the 12th Doctor.

 

I like the idea of learning more about the Doctor but at the same time, I don't need an explanation as to why he left Gallifrey and I refuse to believe it was because he was afraid he'd become a monster who conquered it. I only hope the next showrunner (which will probably be chosen a few billion years from now) retcons this nonsense.

 

I saw speculation earlier wondering if the Doctor being a "hybrid" is supposed to reference the half-human bit from the Doctor Who TV movie. Last thing I want to see is the Doctor turn out to be half-human, a line of dialogue best forgotten.

 

I was hoping that the Doctor would hit his head against that not-diamond so hard that he was regenerate into someone who didn't care about Clara, who managed to annoy again in her twenty-five seconds of screentime.

 

The musical score was very good though but that's about it.

[Morrigan2575]

It's interesting about the prophecy. Half Time Lord, half something that isn't Dalek, human perhaps?

The Doctor says the Hybrid is "me" at the end of the episode. Given his discussion with Davros earlier this season it very easily could mean The Doctor is the Hybrid.

There's also idea that it could be a play on words he could mean Lady/Mayor "Me". Of course she has already been called a hybrid in show and she's half human, half something else, but she's not a Time Lady.

Sadly it doesn't fit with "the hybrid is me" line but I can't help but recall that River was in fact half humans half time lord/lady. Would have been interesting of she was the hybrid.

I'm not really sure how I feel about this while retcon of the Doctor running away because he was sacred. I loved the "Doctors Wife" and this new version of events seems to contradict that very lovely discussion between Eleven and the TARDIS

[elle]

I like the idea of learning more about the Doctor but at the same time, I don't need an explanation as to why he left Gallifrey and I refuse to believe it was because he was afraid he'd become a monster who conquered it. I only hope the next showrunner (which will probably be chosen a few billion years from now) retcons this nonsense.

 

I saw speculation earlier wondering if the Doctor being a "hybrid" is supposed to reference the half-human bit from the Doctor Who TV movie. Last thing I want to see is the Doctor turn out to be half-human, a line of dialogue best forgotten.

Ever since "Listen" there has been this attempt to, I am at a loss for the right word, tempting to say humanize this version of The Doctor.  I hated them having Clara be the monster under the bed.  I really don't like the idea of him running away because he was afraid and it really doesn't follow (for me) seeing the First Doctor, an old man, being afraid of becoming this monster of prophecy.  Being afraid of dying, I could almost see, but still...

 

The whole half-human idea almost makes me laugh because of how ridiculous the idea is if you hold it up against the whole time lord/human meta-crisis of Ten/Donna.  Didn't Moffet write that?

 

I enjoyed the episode as a Peter Capaldi show.  This show has not been "my" Who since the ridiculous Christmas special with Eleven on Trenzalore.

 

The musical score was very good though but that's about it.

It was a nice score.  As an aside, I had a laugh during the show because just after I commented that I heard bagpipes, my husband said "but, isn't that an accordion?"   :0)

Edited November 29, 2015 by elle

[AlwaysWatching]

Did the whole castle set remind anybody else of the video game Myst? flyingdi

 

 

Yes! I kept thinking about Myst through out the whole episode.  I had to keep running back a couple minutes here and there because, well, I was thinking about Myst. I really got into the last 10 minutes or so.  I'm not a very good Doctor Who fan when it comes to all the back stories and history. Still, I followed it pretty good. I have to admit to not knowing that city was Gallifrey or some other well known Doctor Who....I better shut up. I'm going to look worse and worse if I keep talking my Doctor Who ignorance.

[tankgirl73]

Something that I thought was going to happen but never did -- once I'd figured out that the Doctor was looping, I expected him to paint a portrait of Clara which his next self would see. But at that time, I was thinking it was a very long loop and that's why the painting was so old.

 

So now I'm supposing that he painted it in the FIRST loop. The original first time through the puzzle box. Because that first time HAD to be different. There were no clues for him to go on -- no dirty shovel, no skulls piled up. In fact, the first dozen or so loops he wouldn't even notice the skulls underwater, there would be too few. So there did have to be gradual changes in the loop but very very gradual. But the very very first time he didn't find the word "bird" to plant the idea of the Grimm story either.

 

So I surmise that the first time through was VERY different. He painted a portrait of Clara and hung it up. He pondered and he confessed, but he didn't figure out until he saw the wall what the solution would have to be -- to begin to break through it. He thought of the Grimm story, but not in time to start punching. He crawled upstairs, wrote Bird, and from the next loop on, he figured it out just a few moments faster than the first time so he got a few punches in.

 

So.... after coming out of the water, did the first loop Doctor run around naked until he died? He had to have, since his clothes were left behind for the next....

 

I loved the music too. The opening reminded me of Amadeus, though the music was more like Beethoven (7th symphony, 2nd mvt -- same chord progression).

Edited November 29, 2015 by tankgirl73

[Anisky]

Did the whole castle set remind anybody else of the video game Myst?

 

YES!!! I was thinking exactly the same thing during the episode! :-D

 

I even liked the brief Clara moment. I also liked the ending where he said that nothing if half Dalek. The Daleks would never allow it. 

 

Except weren't all the Daleks in Series 1 of New-Who essentially half Dalek, since they recreated themselves using human DNA (specifically, Rose's)? Once they managed to create a "pure" Dalek it killed them for having human DNA and thus being impure, but that still means that it did, and therefore can, happen.

 

Not to mention, Oswin Oswald was arguably half Dalek, half human. Physically Dalek with a human mind. It's an alternate timeline, but close enough that the Daleks allowing that there is pretty good evidence that they would do the same in the Doctor's current timeline.

 

Come to think of it, given that there was apparently this myth/rumor thing for a long time about a half-Dalek hybrid that would destroy Gallifrey, shouldn't those Series 1 impure Daleks set off alarm bells in the Doctor's head?

 

I saw speculation earlier wondering if the Doctor being a "hybrid" is supposed to reference the half-human bit from the Doctor Who TV movie. Last thing I want to see is the Doctor turn out to be half-human, a line of dialogue best forgotten.

 

Not to mention, if we need a half-human, half-Time Lord hybrid, we have both River Song and Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter off running around the universe. I wonder why it doesn't occur to him it might be one of them? 

 

Anyone though the "Hybrid is me" line could actually be misdirecting and it's "Me" with a capital M, aka Ashildr ?

 

 

 

On one hand, I hope so because I really don't want it to be the Doctor. On the other, I was never quite clear on why the Doctor though Ashildr might be the hybrid in the first place. Isn't she just a human who doesn't age and die? I mean, that makes her different, but if she's only half human then I don't know what the other half would be? Unless I missed something...

 

 

I was guessing the Dream Lord too from the previews plus seeing  "Amy's Choice" again this past week.

 

But in Amy's Choice, wasn't the Dream Lord just the Doctor hallucinating? Or was the Dream Lord something from Classic Who, and the Doctor hallucinated him because he'd already dealt with him as a nemesis?

Edited November 29, 2015 by Anisky

[jcin617]

The Doctor is not billions of years older, he's subjectively only older by however much time passed in the last iteration from materialization to punching through the final bit of wall.

[Anisky]

The Doctor is not billions of years older, he's subjectively only older by however much time passed in the last iteration from materialization to punching through the final bit of wall.

 

True, but several billion years is a really, REALLY long time for a copy of something (in this case, the Doctor) to remain on a hard drive without degrading. :P

[buttersister]

At the risk of being repetitive, I love watching Capaldi work. Oy, so many skulls---that was the creepiest moment I've had with this show since, what? "Are you my mummy?" Moffat. A master of the creepy and the mind palace. (For the record, I didn't find Blink as creepy as terrifying;-)

[Galileo908]

Loved the hell out of this one. I kept hoping that this was going to have Peter, the antagonist, and no one else and man, did it deliver. Well, Clara showed up once and there was that kid at the end, but it still worked.

 

I have predictions for next week:

The episode ends with 12 helping out the other Doctors seal away Gallifrey during Day of The Doctor. And the person being regenerated will be Missy and not The Doctor.

True, but several billion years is a really, REALLY long time for a copy of something (in this case, the Doctor) to remain on a hard drive without degrading. :P

But keep in mind that everything in that room reset whenever the Doctor went back to it. Thus, the hard drive was always in good shape.

[foreverevolving]

True, but several billion years is a really, REALLY long time for a copy of something (in this case, the Doctor) to remain on a hard drive without degrading. :P

 I doubt more than a few days have passed.

think about it like a file.. you have the original of which you can make changes and than resave it under a different name. and continue with the cycle. you can, quite literally, within the span of say.. a day, make billions of copies from that one original master file and it's subsequent copies.

I seem to remember some sci-fy show actually had an episode about this.. it may have even been Dr. Who.. or maybe Torchwood...

 

I have predictions for next week:

The episode ends with 12 helping out the other Doctors seal away Gallifrey during Day of The Doctor. And the person being regenerated will be Missy and not The Doctor.

 

 

I hope not!! - in regards to that last half sentence in the spoiler tag.

[tankgirl73]

One thing I don't understand about the whole castle puzzle -- there's one room with a hexagonal pattern in the floor, one indented hexagon with dirt in it and arrows pointing to it, he kneels and sweeps his hand on it. There's some flashbacks to it as though it connects to everything, but I can't figure out what it has to do with anything at all.

[Anisky]

 I doubt more than a few days have passed.

think about it like a file.. you have the original of which you can make changes and than resave it under a different name. and continue with the cycle. you can, quite literally, within the span of say.. a day, make billions of copies from that one original master file and it's subsequent copies.

 

OK, I'm confused by what you're trying to say here. When you say "you" can literally within a day make billions of copies, what do you mean by that? A person couldn't, just because taking a file, making changes, saving the changed file as a new file (which I really don't think the Doctor did, since he didn't retain any memories from the previous loops-- he just re-opened the original file at the end of every loop), then opening that new file, making changes... etc, takes time. Absolute best case scenario, with a computer that had excellent processing speed, it would still take several seconds to make each resaved copy, open that, and resave it under a different name again. There are only 86,400 seconds in a day. If a person spent 24 hours straight doing that, without eating or sleeping or going to the bathroom or taking a sip of water or anything, they would STILL have complete each loop in 0.0000864 seconds. 

If a computer were making the changes, that's still pretty fast, and the more the computer did that, the more likely that at some point there would be a blip or an error, and then all the subsequent copies would be faulty. (The same is true of a human, of course.) Plus when you're saving that many files on a computer, it will eventually run out of memory. (And the computer will start going ever slower as the memory fills up.)

 

So... yeah... color me confused. *headscratch*

 

Also, why would only a few days have passed? The Doctor was digging a hole through a diamond wall by punching it, and during each loop took time to go through a series of events to lead him to that spot; so each loop took a significant amount of time to complete, and he had to repeat it enough times that he could punch through a diamond wall. That... seems like it would take a really long time.

[buttersister]

"I'm the Doctor and I will never ever stop." Oh dear. Well, it's easier to track the second time around. And hear that Beethoven-like music, which, nice going.

[forum4idiots]

So when the timelords gave him new regenerations, did that make him a hybrid?  of sorts.  what bugged me about this episode, it's sometimes hard to hear capaldi cause the background sounds were so loud or he was speaking too softly.  but aother good performance by capaldi.  guy can act.

 

and also, there was the time his regeneration was disrupted by those women that created the war doctor.......point is, he fussed around with his existence so many times that he can be considered a hybrid.

Edited November 29, 2015 by lovebug1975

[forum4idiots]

wait.......

 

so the first episodes of clara and misty going to the doctor ....could actually be a past doctor and the doctor, during that tie, was already in the disc, reliving the loop a billion times over?  the doctor in those episodes was his past?

 

and as someone already pointed out, the last line could be word play.......as ishldr (me) is the hybrid ...the hybrid is me.

Edited November 29, 2015 by lovebug1975

[hnygrl]

HOLY CRAP that was good!!!! DAMN Moffatt can WRITE!!! I was amazed, delighted, surprised, even though I figured it out as the last 10 minutes unfolded.

That was by far the best episode of Doctor Who I've ever seen, including Day of the Doctor.

Well done, show. Well effing done. My heart is still beating fast....SO GOOD!!!!!!!

Edited November 29, 2015 by hnygrl

[Anisky]

wait.......

 

so the first episodes of clara and misty going to the doctor ....could actually be a past doctor and the doctor, during that tie, was already in the disc, reliving the loop a billion times over?  the doctor in those episodes was his past?

 

Isn't that usually how TV shows work? The current episode is the person in their present, and in the episodes that came before it they are their "past selves"? I mean occasionally shows do wacky stuff with time but "Character X in earlier episodes was Past Character X" is the normal mode of storytelling, so I'm not sure why this seems unexpected to you?

[futurechemist]

My take on understanding the episode.  Each iteration of the Doctor only lasted a day or so.  So 12 isn't really any older than when he started.

 

Did time advance outside?  Is this Gallifrey a billion years in the future?  I don't think so.  The Doctor  was trapped is his confession dial.  Which like a lot of Time Lord tech is bigger on the inside and possibly in another dimension.  Maybe even a "cup of soup" castle frozen in time.  Because over a billion years all the equipment would degrade, the fire would run out of fuel, etc.

 

Also, Earth's nearest star neighbor- Alpha Centauri, is over 4 light years from Earth.  So there aren't any inhabitable planets within the teleporter's 1 light year range.

 

The acting was great.  And I think this season is an improvement over last season.  But I've found a fair number of episodes this year where even after the episode is over I don't understand what I just watched.  Which is somewhat frustrating.

 

Why no trailer for next week on BBC America?  During the credit there was a little pop up saying "stay tuned for a trailer for next week's finale".  But then the Last Kingdom immediately started.  And I'm not going to watch that show just to wait for the trailer to randomly appear.  I'm sure BBC America will play the trailer incessantly over the week so I'll catch it eventually.

Edited November 29, 2015 by futurechemist