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S13.E11: Spinning Wheel


MyAimIsTrue
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I agree that Mallard Sr.'s accent was horrific, in the two lines he had. It took me a moment to realise it was even supposed to be Scottish. Even James Doohan would have thought it was bad.

 

Oh, ouch.   

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Oh my goodness; those last few minutes! I didn't think I would get teary, since I'd read all the comments here first. But no lie, I was bawling. And not a surprise, since Jesse Binder wrote it.

 

I'm having issues with this sudden disintegration of Ellie and Jake's marriage. I'm not even going to address the hacking/no hacking stuff, but going based on what was shown to us, just last season-that they were very happily married, and she'd been with NCIS for a year? two years? These fucking writers. I feel like I was bait and switched. It just felt very sudden to me, them having issues, and not communicating, etc., whatever. 

 

And yeah, what happened to Gibbs's supposed awesome gut? What about him and Jake meeting for lunches? Or was it dinners? Or them talking? And Gibbs asking Jake to pass him information NCIS wasn't privy to?

 

So, I'm going with the affair was a lie. Unless between the Thanksgiving episode and last night, they decided that Jake was a cheater after all, and if that was the plan, why couldn't they have gotten an actor I could hate? Yes, yes, I'm being petty and shallow, but what a waste of Jamie Bamber, if this was the plan all along, assuming these asshats  planned ahead.

 

Yes, Ducky's father accent was supposed to be Scots, since Ducky is actually Scots himself. I was wondering why Adam Campbell didnt' use a Scots brogue? But I found wee Nicholas's accent more muddy. The accent kept slipping and I had to actually lean forward to determine if he was speaking with an American accent or Brit.

 

My favorite line of the show, though?

 

"Sod off!"

 

Yes, I am 12.

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Speaking of the woman whom Ducky loved (and married his former friend), hadn't she and Ducky in the present times decided to keep in touch and see each other now that her husband was dead?

What happened to that story line? Did she disappear with Abby's long lost brother?

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Yes, Ducky's father accent was supposed to be Scots, since Ducky is actually Scots himself. I was wondering why Adam Campbell didnt' use a Scots brogue? But I found wee Nicholas's accent more muddy. The accent kept slipping and I had to actually lean forward to determine if he was speaking with an American accent or Brit.

Well, not to get into it too much, but DMc has a very particular way of speaking which has a bunch of Scottish traits, as is normal for someone who originally learned to speak in Scotland, spent a lot of time with Scottish relatives and has Scottish parents (believe me, they will sometimes firmly correct you if you don't sound a little bit Scottish on certain words, or they think you're losing your accent! So you can grow up anywhere with certain Scottish verbal traits.)

But apparently both the real actor and Ducky actually spent most of their childhood in London, where sounding full on Scots was sometimes quite tough at that time, according to family members of mine (people would pretend not to understand you - and sometimes they really didn't!) So the actor also speaks with a lot of traits of Southern English R.P. It's a lovely blended accent, but not simple to copy. And not really any kind of 'brogue' or whatever you want to call it.

The moment I loved was Little Ducky rolling his r on the word 'ransack'. Because I've noticed that Original Ducky does that sometimes, for emphasis. I think he did a pretty good job, without doing a full on impression, which might have been weird.

And yes, the kid's accent wandered around the mid-Atlantic, but it wasn't that bad. I'd even give him a pass considering how much US TV a lot of British kids watch and pick up stuff from. They don't always sound like Harry Potter! Yes, he didn't sound like a British 1960/70s kid at all, he sounded like a British kid growing up in the U.S. or vice versa - blended again. But he's a very cute kid and I thought he was a fine little actor.

On another note, I'd also love it if they brought Ducky's girlfriend back. The idea that you can get back what you've lost and find a way to start over at his age is quite a powerful one. And it really does happen, I've seen it! Just like in this episode, sometimes it never is too late to find the people you love again.

Edited by Lebanna
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Young Ducky was quite dishy, as was David back in his Ilya days (yes, I'm old enough to have remembered him as a Russian with a British accent, but that mop of blond hard over a black turtleneck!, Yum, um, sorry, where was I?)

Mallard Sr. was no prize, was he? Victoria must have been rich from her side of the family because she seemed to have been well off in her dotage. And Ducky always seemed well-educated.

I preferred to ignore the Bish stuff this episode and just concentrate on Ducky

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Mallard Sr. was no prize, was he? Victoria must have been rich from her side of the family because she seemed to have been well off in her dotage. And Ducky always seemed well-educated.

I was wondering about that myself. Maybe she married comfortably or inherited money later in life? Because I got the impression young Ducky wasn't swimming in it.

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OK I am officially not liking Bishop, her mannerisms are getting to me and she really adds nothing to the team now.  At least Kate was someone who had previous law enforcement experience and Ziva was a former superspy.  Like I said, she pretty much is a female Magee and now having these personal issues are making her kind of annoying.

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Oh, Bishop, please. You never would have found out? You put your career and your freedom at stake stalking the man because you weren't willing or able to accept the consequences of the career decision you made unilaterally when you had no reason to believe he was cheating (and apparently back then he wasn't).

I have some fading hope that they're going to reveal that it's all a ploy, but wow, if they're going there, did they think it was going to make her sympathetic?

Poor Ducky. I hope we get more of the adventures of swinging sixties Dr Ducky. He's kind of awesome. And I kind of want Nicholas to move in.

 

Julia, I could not disagree with you more if I tried. I found Bishop to be very sympathetic.  I also disagree with the assertion that she was "stalking" Jake.  She wasn't.  In the scene before that (or at least in the same episode), she had been recounting a memory of when she and Jake had met at that restaurant for lunch while they were both working at the NSA.  I interpreted that as she was going to that restaurant, see if Jake happened to be there for lunch, and surprise him by joining him.  I don't consider that stalking at all.

 

As to the consequences of not being able to accept the career change, the conversation that I heard sounded to me as though they were both saying they had difficulties with that.  Jake talked about their days at the NSA, and Ellie chimed in with her comment about national security.  I also don't think that had anything to do with snooping either.  Jake never brought that up, so while the audience may know about it, Jake must not or it isn't the major issue.  Something can't be an issue if it's not addressed or even referenced by the characters who are having the issue.  I think the national security comment was an acknowledgement that it was difficult for both of them to not be able to talk like they used to.  From that, there came the realization that their marriage was built or at least partially supported by the dynamic that existed when they both worked at NSA.  Once that dynamic shifted, they came to realize that their relationship didn't have much more in common than the NSA.  That's not a failing on either of their parts.  You hear all the time of people who begin relationships and marriages out of shared experiences, but the relationship falters once the experience is no longer shared.  I think that's what Bishop meant when she said they've been broken for a long time.  She's been at NCIS for several years, and I think it took them both a long time to realize what was actually happening.  In that sense, I have sympathy for both Ellie and Jake.

 

Where Jake does not get my sympathy is the affair, and I do think that's completely real.  It's no surprise to me it was with an NSA colleague, and I think his comments show that he was trying to recapture the NSA dynamic he one had with Ellie.  He happened to be eating in the same restaurant where he shared lunch with his wife on a regular basis.

 

Julia, your posts give me the impression as though you entirely blame Bishop for the end of her marriage and that she deserves what's happening to her.  That's totally "agree to disagree" territory because I thought the conversation was quite lovely between them in the sense that they both took some ownership of the issue, snooping was never mentioned at all, and this is something that does realistically happen in some marriages.  I am sad at the loss of Bishop's happy, stable marriage, but if this was the plan due to Jamie's schedule or whatever the reason might be, at least this had some basis in normalcy.  The marriage didn't end due to Bishop being shot by a terrorist or targeted by a drug dealer.  The marriage ended due to circumstances that could exist in any marriage.  Ellie and Jake just came apart.  That does happen.

 

I could watch "The Early Life of Young Dr. Ducky" (with accompanying narration by DMc) all freakin' day!  Adam Campbell is smoking hot in that uniform, and I thought the dynamic between young Ducky and young Nicholas was awesome!  I suggest a DVD release like CBS did with the Abby episodes.  Put the two young Ducky episodes on 1 disc, add some commentary by Adam and Dmc, and throw it a short featurette of some kind.  Sold!

 

Spinning Wheel is now neck-and neck with "Call of Silence" for making me cry.

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What I consider stalking is her hacking the NSA for information she wasn't supposed to be privy to.

 

I'm not challenging anyone's feels for Bishop. I'd very much prefer that I not be assigned opinions I haven't expressed.

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i also thought he was too tall. then i told myself Current Ducky had shrunken in old age. :-)

Adam Campbell is a whopping half inch taller than David, according to IMDB, :) Even if that's Young David McCallum, that's who Adam is supposed to be playing.

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What I consider stalking is her hacking the NSA for information she wasn't supposed to be privy to.

 

I'm not challenging anyone's feels for Bishop. I'd very much prefer that I not be assigned opinions I haven't expressed.

 

Oh, Bishop, please. You never would have found out? You put your career and your freedom at stake stalking the man because you weren't willing or able to accept the consequences of the career decision you made unilaterally when you had no reason to believe he was cheating (and apparently back then he wasn't).

 

That's why I wrote that your posts give me the impression that you believe that Bishop is entirely at fault and deserves what is happening to her.  That's the impression that I get when I read your remarks about Bishop, and I'm just trying to figure out what brought you to that feeling.  Like take me for example.  You've been around this forum long enough to know that I loathed Ziva, absolutely despised her, practically threw a party when she left.  LOL!  There's a difference between disagreeing with a point and understanding a point.  I don't care if you disagree with me.  I'm just trying to understand your point, that's all.

 

To put it another way, your posts give me the impression that you are particularly irked by Bishop's snooping, and I'm trying to understand that point of view, given that Gibbs, McGee, and even Vance have authorized similar acts.  Why has Bishop irked you so much more than the other characters who have done similar things?

Edited by Ohmo
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Late to the party - that was a lovely Christmas episode. Everytime the show brings Alan Campbell back I wish he'd get a regular part on a good show. He's got really charisma.

Add me to the list of those thinking there's more going with Jake than what we've been seeing so far. Plenty of things make not much sense here - also the whole 'our marriage broke apart because we're working for different intelligence organizations' arc feels a tad forced seeing how McGee and Delilah are able to manage the same conundrum. (Granted they did not start out working in the same place. But from my understanding even when Ellie was with the NSA she and Jake could not discuss their work because they were working in different branches/sections.)

Edited by MissLucas
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I haven't been watching NCIS lately.  It was one of my favorite shows but after Ziva left it all seemed to be repetitive.  Nothing against Bishop but I found that I couldn't really care about any of the characters any more because they were all caught in a time loop where no one except Jimmy was allowed to grow up enough to have a real adult relationship and even Jimmy had to act like a goofy kid most of the time.  Sean Murray has two children, Michael Weatherley has three, and Mark Harmon and David MacCallum regularly make the lists of "longest Hollywood marriages" (28 and 48 years respectively) but their characters all still function as if they were in their twenties in terms of relationships.  I thought Ducky was great with Jordan even though she was 36 years younger, next I heard he's dating a young real estate agent who made him give up his ties.   But when the characters were all still the same even a year after Ziva left, I realized it was never going to change and so NCIS dropped to #3 on my list of What To Watch At 8 PM Tuesday as The Flash characters overtook it in terms of maturity.

 

The write-up for this episode brought me back but I'm stuck wondering what the hell happened to this show because the writing was all for audience effect.  I like a good cry with a heartwarming story but this episode had so many manipulations to get my tear ducts working that I just couldn't, from the whole Ducky story that came out of nowhere to Ellie's marriage break-up.  Granted NCIS was always a procedural (I find it ironic that when both NCIS and Supergirl switched episodes because of the Paris bombing Supergirl's story arcs were affected by transposing the episodes but NCIS' was not) but so much of this episode didn't make writing sense:

 

1.  Why was the second wife such a bitch, and why did she keep changing her mind?  First she didn't want the boy so Ducky had to take care of him, then she wanted money to give up custody, and when  Ducky's friend (and Hook's father) gives him the money, she decides she doesn't want the money she just wants the boy away.  And then for no reason we can see other than vindictiveness, she changes their name so  Ducky can't find them.  Was there ever any reason given why she felt she needed to hide Nicholas from Ducky as if he were an abusive parent?

 

2.  And for maximum dramatic effect, she's got the judge to issue a couple of cops to help her (really?  they have that little to do on the police force that they can take her home in a non-custody case) so that we can feel so sorry for Ducky.

 

3.  If it was so important for Nicholas to be reunited with Ducky, why didn't he go looking for Ducky himself when he became an adult?  He wasn't stupid,  he could easily have found Ducky by writing to the Air Force or getting in touch with his father.  He had a good forty years to find him.

 

4.  Why was the letter written in the hand of an 8 year old child?  That's not how Alzheimer's works.  It was a cheap manipulation to make the letter seem to be written in a child's writing rather than what should have been Nicholas' adult handwriting so that there could be the "oh no, it couldn't be written three weeks ago!"

 

5. From what I recall of the charming departed "Mother Mallard", there was money in that family.  Did she just decide to marry a doorman?  And then hated him so much that she wouldn't have helped him keep his son? 

 

6.  How did Nicholas have access to the stamps?  Anyone whose dementia has progressed to having to be in a locked ward as Nicholas' was,is appointed a Guardian, if no available family members then the state, and things that valuable are either kept safe or sold to pay for the care.

 

7. The whole Ellie/James story was just a mess created in order to break them up because no one (other than Jimmy) can be happily married on NCIS.  Why was she refusing to see him if the problem was the marriage not the affair?  Way to become immature, Ellie. 

 

I was hoping for a good Christmas story but this episode had no respect for me as a viewer.

 

Of course she's a caricature, she's Ducky's memory of a woman from half a century ago that he saw as a completely heartless shrew that in reality probably wasn't even close being as evil as his flashback depicted. Perhaps I'm just giving the writers too much credit though, that would be more nuanced writing than I'd expect from most writers I know of.

Ducky was a thirtysomething adult back then, not a child.  Assuming that Ducky doesn't have a personality disorder of some type, there's no reason he should remember her as a caricature if she was a reasonable woman.  Anything that traumatic and at that age would be seared into his memory.  They didn't even try to write the stepmother as a consistent character, she was just a cheap shot to make Ducky feel bad.

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For simplicity's sake, I inserted my comments directly into your post, in bold:

 

The write-up for this episode brought me back but I'm stuck wondering what the hell happened to this show because the writing was all for audience effect.  I like a good cry with a heartwarming story but this episode had so many manipulations to get my tear ducts working that I just couldn't, from the whole Ducky story that came out of nowhere to Ellie's marriage break-up.  Granted NCIS was always a procedural (I find it ironic that when both NCIS and Supergirl switched episodes because of the Paris bombing Supergirl's story arcs were affected by transposing the episodes but NCIS' was not) but so much of this episode didn't make writing sense:

(NCIS was not affected by the Paris bombings. NCIS:LA switched two of its episodes around.)
 

1.  Why was the second wife such a bitch, and why did she keep changing her mind?  First she didn't want the boy so Ducky had to take care of him, then she wanted money to give up custody, and when  Ducky's friend (and Hook's father) gives him the money, she decides she doesn't want the money she just wants the boy away.  And then for no reason we can see other than vindictiveness, she changes their name so  Ducky can't find them.  Was there ever any reason given why she felt she needed to hide Nicholas from Ducky as if he were an abusive parent?

I don't think she ever said she didn't want the boy? I thought it was just that she wanted the money or she would take Nicholas, and then changed her mind that she was taking him either way - which may well have been her plan all along.

I'm not so hung up about changing their names as I am about what appears to be faking Nicholas' death. How/why did that happen?

 

2.  And for maximum dramatic effect, she's got the judge to issue a couple of cops to help her (really?  they have that little to do on the police force that they can take her home in a non-custody case) so that we can feel so sorry for Ducky.

Depends how well-connected the stepmother is, I suppose.

 

3.  If it was so important for Nicholas to be reunited with Ducky, why didn't he go looking for Ducky himself when he became an adult?  He wasn't stupid,  he could easily have found Ducky by writing to the Air Force or getting in touch with his father.  He had a good forty years to find him.

Perhaps his father was dead or Nicholas was otherwise unable to track him down. And maybe the British military was unable/unwilling to provide Nicholas with the information for some reason. Nicholas is unable to tell Ducky/the audience this story, and in real life sometimes not all loose ends get tied up and people make decisions that in retrospect don't seem to make sense. Personally, I am okay with this loose end, though an answer would be nice.

 

4.  Why was the letter written in the hand of an 8 year old child?  That's not how Alzheimer's works.  It was a cheap manipulation to make the letter seem to be written in a child's writing rather than what should have been Nicholas' adult handwriting so that there could be the "oh no, it couldn't be written three weeks ago!"

I wondered about the child's handwriting as well. That part of the story didn't make sense to me.

 

5. From what I recall of the charming departed "Mother Mallard", there was money in that family.  Did she just decide to marry a doorman?  And then hated him so much that she wouldn't have helped him keep his son? 

It is possible she married into money after separating from Ducky's father. I don't recall the specifics, though.

 

6.  How did Nicholas have access to the stamps?  Anyone whose dementia has progressed to having to be in a locked ward as Nicholas' was,is appointed a Guardian, if no available family members then the state, and things that valuable are either kept safe or sold to pay for the care.

Nicholas was outside sitting on a bench when Ducky went to visit him - that is not a locked ward. A locked ward means you can't get anywhere outside the ward without a key, and certainly not outside unaccompanied. And, it is very possible that nobody realized how valuable the stamps were or paid them any attention.

 

7. The whole Ellie/James story was just a mess created in order to break them up because no one (other than Jimmy) can be happily married on NCIS.  Why was she refusing to see him if the problem was the marriage not the affair?  Way to become immature, Ellie. 

There has been much discussion over this, but if you've not been watching the show regularly, then it would make sense that the storyline seems like it is out of nowhere.

Personally, I'm still on team "affair is a cover-up".

 

I was hoping for a good Christmas story but this episode had no respect for me as a viewer.

 

Ducky was a thirtysomething adult back then, not a child.  Assuming that Ducky doesn't have a personality disorder of some type, there's no reason he should remember her as a caricature if she was a reasonable woman.  Anything that traumatic and at that age would be seared into his memory.  They didn't even try to write the stepmother as a consistent character, she was just a cheap shot to make Ducky feel bad.

Our memories are more biased then most people would like to believe. There is also no indication that Ducky's stepmother was a reasonable woman. And for traumatic memories, those are the ones that tend to be altered more over time. Ducky may not have been aware of his stepmother's motives and since the story is told from his POV, the audience wouldn't be privy to this information either.

Personality disorders affect how we respond to situations - I don't think Ducky's memory of his stepmother could only be the way we saw it if he has a personality disorder.

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In regards to the handwriting, my best guess is that he (Nicholas) had been affected by it long term (Alzheimer's) and that it affected his handwriting.

 

Just came across an article about that kind of thing.

 

Source: everydayhealth.com

I know handwriting can be affected by Alzheimer's, but in that case the writing may be described as child-like, but in a different way than in Nicholas' letter. For a person with Alzheimer's, their writing is clearly shaky due to lack of fine motor control, and not usually anything like the person's own penmanship when they were a child. It's like their adult handwriting regresses due to difficulty controlling the pen and difficulty recalling the fine motor movements necessary to create the letters, so the letters look shaky and might become bigger/rounding to compensate. That letter from Nicholas had a child's writing, but it was neat and steady and clearly written with a great deal of care and attention - not exactly something you would expect a person with severe Alzheimer's to be able to do.

Edited by secnarf
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3.  If it was so important for Nicholas to be reunited with Ducky, why didn't he go looking for Ducky himself when he became an adult?  He wasn't stupid,  he could easily have found Ducky by writing to the Air Force or getting in touch with his father.  He had a good forty years to find him.

Perhaps his father was dead or Nicholas was otherwise unable to track him down. And maybe the British military was unable/unwilling to provide Nicholas with the information for some reason. Nicholas is unable to tell Ducky/the audience this story, and in real life sometimes not all loose ends get tied up and people make decisions that in retrospect don't seem to make sense. Personally, I am okay with this loose end, though an answer would be nice.

 

I agree with the bold, and also have another possibility.  We don't know what the second wife told Nicholas about Ducky in the intervening years.  Sure, the memories that we saw were positive for Nicholas and Ducky, but if the second wife hated Ducky enough, she could have twisted what actually happened to her own advantage and made Ducky seem the bad guy.  Nicholas might have not wanted to find Ducky as an adult.  In the show, Ducky came to Nicholas with the train, so I handwaved it as Nicholas being able to retrieve a happy memory of Ducky based on that stimulus.  Probably not medically accurate, but that didn't matter to me.

 

Ducky was a thirtysomething adult back then, not a child.  Assuming that Ducky doesn't have a personality disorder of some type, there's no reason he should remember her as a caricature if she was a reasonable woman.

 

Why not?  He could simply straight-up hate her for taking Nicholas whether she had the right to or not, and that's not a personality disorder, in my opinion.  That's human nature.  People can like or dislike things or people for rational or irrational reasons.  If the mere presence of hateful thoughts is a sign of a personality disorder, I think almost the entire human population would have an issue.  I think most people strive to be "good", "rational," and "proper" most of the time, and Ducky's more proper than most.  In the case of Step-Mama, however, she's not his favorite person.

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I liked this episode. It was sweet and every so often you need a happy ending episode. U think we saw the 2nd wife twice and the moments were conflicting. The first was her abandoning Nicholas and seemingly not for the first time and the second was her desperate to keep Nicholas away from Ducky. I don't think there is really enough to make an informed opinion on what kind of person she really is especially since what we have of her is through Ducky's memory and a lifetime of regret.

As for Bishop and Jake scene: I actually thought it was done fairly well. I was waiting for Jake to blame his affair on NCIS and was actually surprised that he took responsibility for it. Bishop's response also made sense. They hadn't been working in awhile and his affair really was just a symptom of the problem.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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What was sad to me is that Bishop's words made sense (that they hadn't been working in a while and the affair was just a symptom of the problem) but instead of working together on the issue, she ended it all. Obviously in real life that is a hard choice for anyone to make and sometimes that is the only right choice to make. But for a show that rarely shows any solid relationships that last, I was disappointed by yet another destroyed relationship. If they both acknowledge that things haven't been working for a while, why throw away years of marriage without even bothering to examine what wasn't working and why and if it could be done better / differently now that they're both more aware? Won't they risk making the same mistakes and having the same problems if they don't ever bother to look at what went wrong and why and how they could have done it and how they would do it the next time?

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If they both acknowledge that things haven't been working for a while, why throw away years of marriage without even bothering to examine what wasn't working and why and if it could be done better / differently now that they're both more aware? Won't they risk making the same mistakes and having the same problems if they don't ever bother to look at what went wrong and why and how they could have done it and how they would do it the next time?

I get the impression that Bishop is supposed to be someone who's always had things happen a little too easily for her. I don't think she's good at hard and uncomfortable and messy, which I don't think she realizes all marriages pretty much are.

It'll be interesting, now that the actress has spoiled that

the cheating did happen and there will be a divorce

, to see if Bishop questions how she handled any of her own actions.

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This episode has just aired on Channel 5 (free channel) in the UK.  I do love a Ducky episode, and I was delighted at the mention of his half-brother at the beginning, because I thought that they would finally explain how come he had a nephew, who was mentioned in a couple of episodes but evidently didn't inherit half of Ducky's mother's estate. Ducky having a half-brother who had a different mother made so much sense in that regard, but of course it turned out that he can't be the nephew's father, so that is still a mystery.

As someone who grew up in the UK in the seventies, I have to say the flashbacks were laughable and showed a minimal amount of research.  You couldn't take a child into a pub bar in 1973, and any pub which had a massive Union Jack flag on the wall would have been a place to avoid at all costs!  And Albania was a strict communist country at the time - I doubt that you could easily fly there from the UK, and if Ducky's stepmother and Nicholas did manage to get there, they might not have been able to leave.  But it made no sense that she would want to go there.  Also, hard to believe that Ducky was going to give up his career so he could look after Nicholas in those days; it would have been more likely that their father would hire a nanny or send Nicholas off to boarding school if he had been given custody.

The rare stamps showed a price of 20p but that would have been way too high in 1973, and surely the only way for a stamp of that era to be as valuable as they said in the episode (I think they said half a million dollars?) would be if it had a printing error, but they didn't say anything about it having one. Unless the 20p was the printing error, I suppose!

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(edited)

Count me in among those who was still thinking/hoping that the affair was a cover story and that Jake would resurface later in the season to reveal/explain that. I was so bummed otherwise.

I still wonder why the writers went that route, whether they planned it from the beginning or had to just hurriedly write him off because Bamber wasn't available. Either way, it didn't feel right.

Edited by Camille
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