All Episodes Talk

[zxy556575]

To discuss overall story arcs and characters, comparisons to other shows or source material, etc. Contains spoilers for anyone who hasn't finished the series.

Edited November 24, 2015 by lordonia

[zxy556575]

As has been mentioned in other threads, this really wasn't a superhero series in the expected sense. I hope people like me who don't normally watch those shows aren't put off, because the suspense and detective aspects were top-notch. It's been very well received by critics so hopefully the word will spread.

 

Highlights for me: Interesting premise, well fleshed-out characters, believable settings, and wonderful acting.

 

Problematic: I kind of disliked Jessica, but that's a small quibble since liking her wasn't necessary for me to enjoy the series.

 

I'm really interested to see where the show goes from here.

[Chaos Theory]

What I liked best about the overall series was that it wasn't romance driven like most female run shows tend to be. The major relationship (at least for me) was between Jessica and Trish. That was the central relationship of the season. Yes both had romances but they were secondary to the plot. Even Jessica and Kilgrave ran in conjuncture with Jessica and Trish.

i am not sure I would call Jessica 'unlikeable' . I think she is more an antihero who is trying to become a hero. That is the entire story arc. Can a person overcome their mistakes and be heroic even when they are not sure they want to be.

My favorite B plot was Jeri Hogarth and her divorce shinangans. I thought the storyline was entertaining in all the dark and nasty ways that make me a horrible person. Plus I think my favorite episode was 1000 Cuts.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[tanita]

I do think deep down Jessica wants to be heroic. It's just that in her first attempt at it she didn't just get burned, she got 3rd degree burns via Kilgrave. In episode 5 when he asked her why did beating up the guys who attacked Malcolm feel good, she said because she was making a difference, doing something good. She may have been sarcastic with Trish about being a superhero but underneath all of that is someone who truly wants to help. And it wasn't just what she said but the way she said it - it was gentle and full of hope. And then Kilgrave promptly crushed it.

Edited November 24, 2015 by tanita

[Sakura12]

I love Jessica, she's exactly the kind of character I'm drawn too. When they are too good and nice, I find them boring. I like my characters with a hard edge but soft in the inside. That's what Jessica is. She may act all hard and tough but deep down she cares and wants to help people. That and she's been completely traumatized by an evil madman. She's damaged and broken, getting people to like her is not even a priority at this point. She is who she is and doesn't hide that. You either take her or leave her and as we see as the show progressed a lot of them choose to take her. 

 

I also loved that this show focus one the women characters and told everything in their POV. Too many times shows start to make it about the men and their manpain about not being able to save the women. This show was about women saving women, the men were secondary. 

 

This was a show about Jess and Trish and Jess and Jeri and Jeri, Wendy and Pam and Jess and Hope. 

 

I love that Malcolm looks to be becoming Jess's Boy Friday. He knows she's hard to take, but he knows that when it comes down to it, she does want to help. 

 

When she stopped and stood there and let Killgrave control Trish making it look like she he could control her, you could see how much it hurt for her do that but she needed to do it to save everyone from him. The real powerful moment came when she looked at Trish and told her she loved her, then broke Killgrave's neck. 

 

I know people ship everything with a pulse, but I really hope they just keep these two as friends and sisters. We don't have enough of those type of relationships on tv. People are always raving about the Bromance,  I want to see a real and honest female friendship portrayed on tv. 

[zxy556575]

I'm still not clear on the sequence of events during the bus crash. We saw Jessica slugging Reva hard enough to kill her, but the police/Luke thought she had been killed during the crash. And Jessica believed Kilgrave was dead after the crash. When/how did Kilgrave get hit by the bus?

 

Jessica and Trish's estrangement is also a little fuzzy. Jessica retreated into herself after she killed Reva and Trish was angry and hurt about being shut out? I think Trish said it had been six months or so since she'd heard from Jessica. But Trish knew about Kilgrave and Jessica's history and that he was supposedly dead, so she and Jessica must have had some contact post Reva.

 

What happened to the other kids in the Thompsons' experiments, I wonder?

 

Is it possible that Robyn could evolve morph into some kind of villain in the next series? She has the emotional trauma and revenge thing going for her.

[scarynikki12]

Kilgrave started walking after Jessica when she wouldn't follow his commands, the bus driver swerved to try and avoid Reva, and the tail hit Kilgrave and sent him flying.  That's why Jessica assumed he was dead, as no one would expect anyone to survive getting hit like that. 

 

I figure that Jessica told Trish about the Kilgrave experience, and obviously went to some kind of therapy, but maybe felt smothered by the familiar (Trish, the apartment, their pre-Kilgrave routine) and cut ties as a way of dealing with the fallout. Trish's anger was probably due to her own fear about what Jessica went through as well as being hurt that her bestie didn't want to be around her.  I'm just glad she let it go when Jessica started talking to her again rather than make Jessica's pain all about her.

[penguinnj]

 

Kilgrave started walking after Jessica when she wouldn't follow his commands, the bus driver swerved to try and avoid Reva, and the tail hit Kilgrave and sent him flying.  That's why Jessica assumed he was dead, as no one would expect anyone to survive getting hit like that.

Plus the bus driver was drunk- he swerved to miss Reva but probably overcompensated somehow and apparently lost complete control of the vehicle which subsequently hit Kilgrave.

[PatternRec]

Very happy to see this thread. Was hoping for a wider discussion in a central location. 

 

I loved this series so much I'm already 1/3 of the way through a second watch. It's interesting seeing it once you know how all the pieces fit together. In the episode where Jessica follows Simpson back to Kilgrave's latest hideout after Simpson "killed" Trish. The first time watching that, while I had theories and suspicions, I didn't quite know what kind of a game Kilgrave was really playing and I was literally talking to my monitor, yelling at Jessica about how stupid it was to get that close to him, especially since she never once suspected he'd lost his hold on her. 

 

The second time around, not only was there less tension because I knew Kilgrave couldn't control her, but I was actually wishing she'd take the risk and catch him and kill him now and spare all those lives that were lost in the next eight or nine episodes. 

 

Personally I find him so vile I think he's the best villain ever. In the larger scheme of things I could give a flying f--k if Ultron throws a giant Vibranium rock and destroys the planet. That sounds like a fast pain free way to go, and since *everyone's* family and loved ones all go out at once, there's no emotional pain or grieving spread around. Kilgrave on the other hand tore the very heart and soul in varying levels, of hundreds of people at a low estimate, given his age and how old he was when his powers manifested. 

 

edited: minor typos

Edited November 24, 2015 by PatternRec

[Tim Thomason]

Kilgrave started walking after Jessica when she wouldn't follow his commands, the bus driver swerved to try and avoid Reva, and the tail hit Kilgrave and sent him flying.  That's why Jessica assumed he was dead, as no one would expect anyone to survive getting hit like that. 

 

I figure that Jessica told Trish about the Kilgrave experience, and obviously went to some kind of therapy, but maybe felt smothered by the familiar (Trish, the apartment, their pre-Kilgrave routine) and cut ties as a way of dealing with the fallout. Trish's anger was probably due to her own fear about what Jessica went through as well as being hurt that her bestie didn't want to be around her.  I'm just glad she let it go when Jessica started talking to her again rather than make Jessica's pain all about her.

 

Kilgrave also had a death certificate made, somehow, that convinced Jessica and Trish that he was dead. It seems that he may have been scared of Jessica after realizing that she was immune to his powers, and kept his distance for a time. Until, of course, his obsession with Jessica grew to a point that he had to make himself known to her.

 

The chain of events seems to be:

1) Jessica kills Reva with a blow to the chest. And also gains immunity to Kilgrave.

2) The bus driver (who was drunk) sees Reva's dead body and swerves to miss her. He hits and severely injures Kilgrave.

3) Kilgrave awakens in an ambulance and forces the driver and a surgeon into giving him unmedicated surgery and both of the ambulance driver's kidneys. The surgeon fakes a death certificate for Kilgrave.

4) The driver loses his job (and eventually has a stroke), while the surgeon becomes a college professor. Kilgrave goes into hiding for awhile before hatching a plan involving the Schlottmans.

[PatternRec]

What I liked best about the overall series was that it wasn't romance driven like most female run shows tend to be. The major relationship (at least for me) was between Jessica and Trish. That was the central relationship of the season. 

 

 

I really hope we'll be seeing more of this dynamic in film and television. I'm very glad we got not one, but two shows with that as a theme (the other being Broad City). 

[Sakura12]

It's really sad with Jessica doing everything she could to save Hope, only to have Hope kill herself so Jessica didn't have to worry about her and could kill Killgrave. 

 

I know some people are like just kill him already and I do think that a hero should kill if necessary. However I don't think it should be an easy decision to take a life even one as vile as Killgrave. Jessica struggling with it to finally doing it made her very human in my eyes. I know he hurt a lot of people but I wouldn't have liked it if Jessica didn't think twice about killing him. 

[Eegah]

I'm coincidentally also rewatching Agent Carter at the moment, and it hit me that IGH could well be the current version of Leviathan. Ivchenko's powers very much seem like a prototype for Kilgrave's, and it seems pretty likely that after losing him the rest of Leviathan would try to replicate it, and took a few decades before the Thompsons' attempt to save their son triggered it accidentally.

[zxy556575]

There would have to be such a complicated, Silence of the Lambs type security to keep Kilgrave locked up, including a cell that only communicates through a telephone/speaker and absolutely no contact with anyone. No visitors. A muzzle/ball gag for him and absolute ear protection for any medical staff or others who needed to interact with him. Give him one of those computer voice generators. He'd probably kill himself with no one to toy with.

 

Since Kilgrave's control wears off after a half day or so, wouldn't more of the people he'd instructed to "forget everything" have eventually remembered and come forward to report their experience? It kind of bugged me that the police never seemed to take an interest in any of the bizarre goings-on, even after it affected them personally. ("Just a prank!") I suppose they may have felt too embarrassed/foolish to do so.

Edited November 24, 2015 by lordonia

[calliope1975]

Since Kilgrave's control wears off after a half day or so, wouldn't more of the people he'd instructed to "forget everything" have eventually remembered and come forward to report their experience? It kind of bugged me that the police never seemed to take an interest in any of the bizarre goings-on, even after it affected them personally. ("Just a prank!") I suppose they may have felt to embarrassed/foolish to do so.

 

I can believe why the police wouldn't believe other's reports of mind control, and why people could convince themselves they just had some type of mental break, but I am curious what the police did with the very real severed human head that they found after the "prank" wore off. 

[xqueenfrostine]

I'm still not clear on the sequence of events during the bus crash. We saw Jessica slugging Reva hard enough to kill her, but the police/Luke thought she had been killed during the crash. And Jessica believed Kilgrave was dead after the crash. When/how did Kilgrave get hit by the bus?

 

Jessica and Trish's estrangement is also a little fuzzy. Jessica retreated into herself after she killed Reva and Trish was angry and hurt about being shut out? I think Trish said it had been six months or so since she'd heard from Jessica. But Trish knew about Kilgrave and Jessica's history and that he was supposedly dead, so she and Jessica must have had some contact post Reva.

 

Trish paid for Jessica's therapist (the one who taught her to recite the names of the streets near her childhood home as a grounding exercise) so they definitely were in contact after Jessica broke free from Kilgrave.  I assumed that Jessica quit seeing her therapist and cut off contact with Trish around the same time.

 

Since Kilgrave's control wears off after a half day or so, wouldn't more of the people he'd instructed to "forget everything" have eventually remembered and come forward to report their experience? It kind of bugged me that the police never seemed to take an interest in any of the bizarre goings-on, even after it affected them personally. ("Just a prank!") I suppose they may have felt to embarrassed/foolish to do so.

 

Given that Kilgrave's powers were both an allegory for rape, I assume people didn't come forward about the mind control for the same reasons people frequently don't go to the police to report when they've been raped.  A lot of people don't believe they'll be taken seriously (and a lot of times, they aren't) and a lot of times they're so traumatized and violated that they don't want to speak their story out loud to anyone who can't relate to what they've been through.  And a lot of times they can't even admit to themselves what really happened.  I keep thinking back to the maitre'd in the pilot episode that Jessica questioned while she was looking for Hope.  As far as we can tell, he only carried out one order for Killgrave and was only in his presence for a short amount of time, but the experience was still obviously deeply disturbing for him.  If that's how most people who were under Killgrave's influence felt afterwards, I could see why so few of them went to the police.  They just want to move on and forget it happened.

[PatternRec]

I can believe why the police wouldn't believe other's reports of mind control, and why people could convince themselves they just had some type of mental break, but I am curious what the police did with the very real severed human head that they found after the "prank" wore off. 

 

IIRC they showed Kilgrave picking up the bag as he was leaving. 

 

I agree that if enough credible people came forward, the police would start believing it. The police station scene was the most unbelievable of Kilgrave's stunts, because if his powers wear off eventually, there's no way that the next day every cop that was there wouldn't start question ning the shit out of what they remembered or why all the video from that exact time frame was missing.*

 

That said, the police station scene was badass and I think the show is better with it in than out.  

 

Kilgrave engineered his own destruction by going after Jessica. He could have lived a long long time stringing along one or two people at a time and not letting enough evidence of someone like him even become an urban legend. Instead, because he's basically still ten emotionally, he hounded the one human being who was stronger than him. Kilgrave's obsession with her blinded him to the biggest flaw in his overall plan just as her PTSD/fear of him kept her from realizing he'd lost control of her sooner (she *is* a very good PI after all).

 

 

 

 

* The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence!

[tanita]

But it works, because for a man who has gotten every thing he has ever wanted since the age of ten, to lose her - as he describes when they meet - " you a vision, and with so much power underneath, like me". He saw her as an almost equal or an equal thing that must be his. And the fact that she snapped out of his control made her even more attractive. He was afraid she could kill him but the need to have her again was much much stronger, hence all the fale-safes and human roadblocks he created for her. And as we know, impulse control isn't his strong suit. He is someone who indulges himself in everything so it wasn't strange or even unexpected that he was so vulnerable when it came to her and the way she ended him.

[Sakura12]

Killgrave is a truly terrible and vile villain, by buying her childhood home, he took away her only safe zone. I don't know if he knew about her calming mantra but that doesn't make it any less horrible for Jessica. Her safe zone was violated by the man that already destroyed her body, mind and soul. 

 

I wonder in Season 2 if she has a PTSD flashback that she has to find a new mantra, maybe by repeating the names of people she cares/ed about? Trish, her parents, her brother, Hope, Luke, Malcolm. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by Sakura12

[pawneeranger]

I'm a bit confused on why/how Jessica can resist Kilgrave. All his victims were traumatized by doing things they didn't want to do, including Luke. Jessica is the only one who was able to harness her experience to being immune to his "virus".

Did I miss something? I've been searching other forums but no one has specifically explained that piece.

[tanita]

It wasn't really explained. It was either too much exposure - that she was around him so long (in the comic it's 8 months, probably something like that in the show as well - i doubt it was just 1 month) that she built up immunity, or that the act he had her do was so vile to her that it snapped her out. Also, in episode 10 you can see that she was already fighting it - the 18 seconds discussion. Or maybe because she is "gifted" the effects stop over time. We don't really know as she is the only one unaffected and the only one who was under his spell for so long. What is clear is that once he can no longer compel someone, it's permanent - no amount of extra power could control her again.

[Sakura12]

Jessica is super powered. Her powers include faster healing and she was around him 24/7 for months. Being that Killgrave's power is a virus, she built up an immunity. Every time he took control of her he was giving her the virus and her body was fighting back until it learned how to block it. I'm sure Luke would've done so to if he had spent as much time with him as Jessica did. 

 

We even saw that immunity building up when she tried to escape, he had to call her name a few times to get her to listen then he had to test it by making her start to cut her ear. 

[jah1986]

I really enjoyed the series. I had never heard of Jessica Jones before Netflix so had no expectations, I only came for Mike Colter (don't care about acting ability, the man is fine). But wound up really liking the entire series and finding out about Jessica's abilities throughout the first 13 episodes was nice. I was pleased with the outcome to Kilgrave who really just had to die now and not come back in another season, he was beyond horrible. I think the fact that I was sick of David Tennant as the Doctor by the end of his time on that show didn't help here. I wasn't intrigued by him or anything, just wanted him dead, maybe that was the point.  Also, I didn't hate Jessica/KR, she had just the right balance of making you want to slap her and cheer for her.  Hope we don't have to wait forever for the next season.

[Cranberry]

Just for a minute there at the end, I thought that Kilgrave would actually leave with Trish, setting up a second season where Jessica would have to track them down and get her back. I would have hated that. Thankfully, this show is better than that; it knows when to let a great villain go. I loved how Jessica took him out, too. At that point, he thought he was in complete control, so to see him defeated (relatively) easily with a bluff and a snap of the neck was perfect.

 

I also loved that Jessica and Trish's friendship was the main relationship of the series. The writers could easily have made Trish a useless damsel in distress, a poor little rich girl, a spoiled ex-child-star, and/or a wisecracking sidekick, but they did none of that. They made her strong and brave and loyal and honest. Jessica was my favorite character, but Trish was right up there with her.

 

I almost don't want a second season because I'm not sure they could top this one (it looks like they'd do something with IGH, which doesn't interest me much; it seems too big in scope), but I'm glad we'll get to see more of Jessica in The Defenders.

[prospazzinator]

I liked it a lot! The only thing that didn't work at all for me was Simpson. He was all right before he started sleeping with Trish, butting into everything, and becoming a pill popping lunatic. Less is more. Less is more is also how I felt about Kilgrave towards the end, so I'm glad that's wrapped up.

[tanita]

IDK, after some time I'm warming up to the whole Nuke plot line. Looking at it as a whole is working better.

 

For Kilgrave he was just a cop (it was coincidence that he was connected to some secret super solder program). He got violated and to assert himself after a form of rape, he tried to be hyper masculine - with Trish in his protector role and to take over in the planning and execution of Kilgrave's capture. Even his insistence to kill Kilgrave, while proving to be right impulse was an added assertion of his masculinity. When it all failed, he went to his "boys" for assistance to further prove that men were needed to take care of it all. When they got beaten by Jessica and then almost killed by the neighbor, is when he finally loses all control and takes his pills. They apparently enhance strength and dull physical pain, but also enhance violence and paranoia. He was supost to take just the one red, but he kept popping two at the time and I doubt he was taking the white one to stability him or the blue ones to bring him down. By the end he was just a violent uncontrollable mess that you couldn't reason with. 

 

As for KIlgrave, the final was both satisfactory and disappointing. He had to die, that is a simple fact. But, I'm sad that we lost such an amazing villain to be honest. Then again, who knows what the future will bring. This is a comic book story. He may be resurrected somehow or at least appear in a flashback or two with Jessica. But even if this is it for him, I'm more then OK with it. Maybe ending his character now is better then overusing him and running him into the ground.

Edited November 24, 2015 by tanita

[Bec]

Yep, that explosion drove Simpson over the edge. His friends were killed and he almost died. The only thing left of that nosy neighbor lady was parts of her limbs and entrails. He was lying next to the remains of everybody else for who knows how long until he woke up to that and called Trish to pick him up. We didn't know his friends so they were just a couple of extras to us, so it didn't hit me when I watched it. But thinking back, yeah, that has got to be a pretty messed up experience.

 

The plot thread I'm most intrigued by at the end is Simpson, which I didn't expect because I hardly noticed him when he first showed up. He got relatively little screen time when all is said and done, but he made an impression. Damn, what is up with those pills and the shadowy company that makes them? They left that plot thread dangling on purpose and means to get to it later, I'd think.

 

It's strongly implied that he has been on those pills before. I'm curious now how he got off them last time? Can he get off them again? Now that I know about the meds, it sure puts a different light on what he meant when he said he had to do horrible things in the line of duty and that the reasons he left spec ops is "classified". No shit the experimental crazy pills project would be classified. Did they already made some permanent alterations to him when they had him before? Now I wonder if that's the reason it didn't seem to phase him much when he got tazed in the sandwich episode. Earlier I chalked it up to "maybe the taze missed" or "maybe his jacket provided a thick layer of insulation".

 

For an apparently evil drug company they sure give him a lot of leeway, though. They just gave him all those pills at once? You'd think they would keep a tighter leash on him than that, since he appears to have escaped from them at least once before. And they clearly weren't actually okay with him leaving their watchful eye and going off to do his own thing, since they sent people to come get him. Evil drug company fail. *shaking my head*

 

Looking back, the actor has more range than I initially thought. He was convincingly "off" on meds. Even (especially?) when he was trying to convince people he's totally not on meds anymore. It was unsettling. There wasn't this "manic" tinge to his performance before the meds. Now we know he had a secret past that he was hiding all along, but I buy that he was sincerely a good person early on, despite his tendency to be a bit of a cocky ass at times (but it sure was hilarious when that would lead to him and Jessica bickering - the best thing was they can both dish it out and take it. I'm gonna miss that dynamic, I want it back but I doubt it's possible).

 

If he's gonna show up again, which he probably will, it would be far more interesting to explore the possibility of him being good again, at least compared to having him just be a one-note brute. The Simpson from earlier would feel like a monster for what he did to his colleague Clemmons (poor Clemmons) and especially for hurting Jessica and Trish. I want to see remorse dammit.

 

Almost seems like Simpson should have a thread, but just knowing he's one of the major characters might be a spoiler in itself for people who haven't watched all the episodes yet.

 

IGH is almost certainly the next big bad, if the "I can only fight one big bad at a time" conversation was anything to go by. Maybe in a reversal of convention, Simpson is the damsel Jessica and Trish have to save from the big bad evil company. And along the way they'll find out some stuff about the chemicals that gave Jessica superpowers. Maybe Trish will get superpowers. Bring it, I say.

[PatternRec]

Ugh I was so excited to do a second watch but it's too dark. I'm only up to episode four and I'm taking a break. I'm gonna have to do the second one as a slow burn.

 

In the meantime I'm watching some episodes of Don't Trust The B---- in Apt 23 to clear my palette. If you only watch the scenes that have Chloe, JVDB or Luther in them that show is *damn* good. 

 

edit: minor typo

Edited November 25, 2015 by PatternRec

[grawlix]

I went into the series without any knowledge about the comics and I enjoyed the season.  I’m looking forward to where the next season goes if there is another.

 

However, I thought the writing got lazy towards the end of the season.  Maybe folks here can reason out/explain a few inconsistencies.

 

-Kilgrave’s powers through out the series seem to indicate that he had total control over his victims.  Yet when he took control over Hogarth, she was able to manipulate his instructions to end up at her estranged wife’s place.  I know that he stated for her to take him to “a doctor she trusted”, but to take him to the wife she dumped and was also in the midst of blackmailing her?  You would think in a major city, Hogarth would be familiar with another doctor that she trusted.

 

-During the setup to the final battle, how did Trish resist Kilgrave’s power?  I know she had headphones (noise canceling?) on with music blaring, but it was explained his power was viral in nature.  The headphones should be an ineffective defense when combatting his power.

 

I realize that the reason for both inconsistencies is probably “Drama!”.  I’m hoping someone can come up with explanations besides that.

[tanita]

No, she didn't manipulate the situation, it only proved that even with all the shit this divorce was creating, Jeri still trusted her wife. They explain that his compulsion overwrites your free will, makes you want to fallow his command, but a tiny part of you somewhere in the back of your mind is aware that this is not what you want and that you can't stop yourself. They made a deal, she would help him and he would get her wife to sign the divorce papers. But she underestimated his chaotic nature and the fact that you can't make a deal with him.

 

Jeri has been dismissing his power or admiring it the whole show, so the fact that when she went under it it resulted in the loss of the both women in her life (Wendy died and Pam got arrested) seams karmic in nature.

 

As for Kilgraves power, I think by the end you would have to see him or hear him. If you can't do either, he can't affect you. Trish wore headphones but also a pulled hoodie over her head. When the headphones fell of in the struggle, his voice commands took over. He had increased his power, in duration, the amount of space it would cover and that it no longer needed close proximity - he could do it over electronics, like phones and loudspeakers. How that translates into real world viral spread I have no clue. Sometimes it's best if those things remain a mystery.

Edited November 25, 2015 by tanita

[Jael]

This show has to be truly ground-breaking in terms of how few scenes it has with no women present. I noticed it first about halfway through the run and even now can only think of three -- Kilgrave and Reuben in Jessica's apartment, the one where Simpson shoots Clemons, and then way toward the end, I think there's one with Kilgrave and his father (and possibly the men who own the apartment.)

 

That ain't a lot. Haven't seen any discussion of this in the coverage yet. Has anyone? Would love to read others' thoughts on it, as an interesting reverse-Bechdel Test scenario -- does anyone think it makes the show less compelling to male viewers? It's certainly not like the male characters are less developed or fleshed-out. But what an interesting change of pace, particularly where superhero TV/movies are concerned.

[Sakura12]

It's been discussed in the episode threads, how much this show is focused on the women and their stories and POV's.

 

I've read some reviews from male viewers and they like the show. I think this shows that audiences can like a female super hero show or movie, if it's done right and written well. Which this show is. Obviously no show is perfect so it has it's flaws but it doesn't follow the typical tropes that we see in most super hero movies with the women. 

 

One of the scenes I really liked was when Trish was saying they could use Will and Jessica's like "Yeah, no" and never once agreed that they needed him. Then when Will tried to give his opinion on her and Trish shut him down with a last night was fun, but that doesn't mean I want your opinion.

[Bec]

As much as I love "sisters doing it for themselves", it seems foolhardy to turn down backup when you're trying to nab a super-villain.

 

It surprised me how quick Simpson was to agree to get Jessica that police footage. No hesitation at all. No "I could get into big trouble for this" like Veronica Mars always seemed to get whenever she asked someone to sneak out some files for her.

 

But then later he said she is not even close to a hero when he was in the soundproof room, and I was like "Dude, are you forgetting the part where she saved your life? Plus stopped you from killing Trish?"

 

Sure, he could be pretty condescending trying to call all the shots and getting in over his head to protect other people when they never asked for protection, but Jessica does the same thing. That's why the two of them butt heads so much.

 

Some of my favorite moments were when Simpson listened to Trish and Jessica and dropped the "know-it-all" act. Something about his willingness to do that makes me like him better than I would otherwise.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Bec

[zxy556575]

Sure, he could be pretty condescending trying to call all the shots and getting in over his head to protect other people when they never asked for protection, but Jessica does the same thing.

 

It's a common enough failing among superheroes -- lies, secrecy, getting in over their heads, wanting to protect/shield others, and the need to handle everything themselves because they're the ones with the powers.

 

My failing is that it continues to exasperate me.

Edited November 25, 2015 by lordonia

[Sakura12]

With the talk of not seeing Killgrave raping Jessica. The showrunner Melissa Rosenberg had this to say about it.

 

 

 

With rape, I think we all know what that looks like. We've seen plenty of it on television and I didn't have any need to see it, but I wanted to experience the damage that it does. I wanted the audience to really viscerally feel the scars that it leaves. It was not important to me, on any level, to actually see it. TV has plenty of that, way too often, used as titillation, which is horrifying.

 

The rest of the interview is here. 

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-st-jessica-jones-melissa-rosenberg-rape-female-sexuality-20151120-story.html

 

Not seeing the actual act and coming in for the aftermath is one of the things I liked about this show. They used the story to show us the damage Killgrave caused to Jessica and to Hope and to everyone else he spoke too. To many shows use rape scenes to shock the audience instead it being necessary for the story. 

 

I'm also glad ABC passed on the show. Jessica Jones couldn't be told in a G-rated setting. To get the full point across they had to be allowed to be real to show how horrifying Killgrave's powers are and what he did to the lead. 

Edited November 26, 2015 by Sakura12

[tanita]

But also, this particular rape scene wouldn't look like every other one. The real terror wouldn't be the act of sex/rape but the precursor, him commanding her to have sex with him or even more to want to have sex with him, to enjoy having sex with him, when we all know that is the last thing she wants. The knowledge that in the back of her mind a part of her is witnessing this horrible act, is fully aware and that there is nothing she can do to stop it.

[AimingforYoko]

One of the last adjectives you'd use to describe Jessica is "adorable", but there were two adorable moments in the last couple of eps. First was when Luke used her shower and came out casually wearing just a towel. She's had sex with this man that was literally bed-breaking, but she still got flustered. Second was when Claire had to drain fluid from around Luke's brain and because of his skin, had to go through the eye and Jessica got all squeamish.

[VCRTracking]

I can relate to her on the eye thing. That scene had me *yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!*

 

 

But also, this particular rape scene wouldn't look like every other one. The real terror wouldn't be the act of sex/rape but the precursor, him commanding her to have sex with him or even more to want to have sex with him, to enjoy having sex with him, when we all know that is the last thing she wants. The knowledge that in the back of her mind a part of her is witnessing this horrible act, is fully aware and that there is nothing she can do to stop it.

 

Agreed. Kilgrave would have also made Jessica and any other woman act like they're enjoying it.

 

There is a cute piece of art of from Tumblr at:

 

http://alsopurple.tumblr.com/post/133920288128/perfect-if-you-know-who-i-need-to-tag-for-this
 

Edited November 26, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Bec]

At least this show didn't average one eye injury per episode like Daredevil. ;)

 

Jessica was pretty adorable when she answered "I helped someone. I made a difference" when Kilgrave asked her why she was happy about beating up those guys. Also when she saved that kid from getting hit by a car while dressed as a sandwich.

 

Elsewhere on the internet, I've seen comments to the effect of "I wish I had Kilgrave's power, I would have sex with anyone I want."

 

I had to back away slowly without dignifying that with a response. *Head meets desk* The entire point that this would be rape just flew right over some people's heads. Whoosh!

[Chaos Theory]

Jessica was pretty adorable when she answered "I helped

Elsewhere on the internet, I've seen comments to the effect of "I wish I had Kilgrave's power, I would have sex with anyone I want."

I had to back away slowly without dignifying that with a response. *Head meets desk* The entire point that this would be rape just flew right over some people's heads. Whoosh!

I think that is what makes Kilgrave such an intriguing and insidious character because he truly didn't see what he was doing as rape. They were smiling. They didn't say no. They enjoyed themselves. It never even occurs to him that the only reason they are agreeing is that he is forcing them to. I think that detail escapes some of the commenters on the internets as well.

I think I would hate to have Kilgrave's ability unless I could shut it off. Taking what he said as truth about not knowing if anyone really wanted to be with him because of his ability must be frustrating.

<----edited for clarity

Edited November 28, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[xqueenfrostine]

-During the setup to the final battle, how did Trish resist Kilgrave’s power?  I know she had headphones (noise canceling?) on with music blaring, but it was explained his power was viral in nature.  The headphones should be an ineffective defense when combatting his power.

 

I realize that the reason for both inconsistencies is probably “Drama!”.  I’m hoping someone can come up with explanations besides that.

 

This isn't an inconsistency.  Kilgrave's power might be viral based, but he's not a telepath.  The virus makes people bend to his will, but the people infected can't obey his will without hearing what his will is.  It's not like the Kilgrave virus turns his victims into an insta-Zombie who just sits and waits to be commanded .  It merely primes them for his command.  That was the case for the entire series, not just with Trish.

 

And I agree with tanita, I don't think Hogarth was deliberately manipulating the situation when she brought Kilgrave to Wendy.  Jeri seems like a character who probably doesn't trust that many people, but despite everything that's happened between them, she obviously still trusted Wendy.  In that sense, it made perfect sense to me that Wendy would be her top choice of a doctor to bring Kilgrave to.

 

As much as I love "sisters doing it for themselves", it seems foolhardy to turn down backup when you're trying to nab a super-villain.

 

It surprised me how quick Simpson was to agree to get Jessica that police footage. No hesitation at all. No "I could get into big trouble for this" like Veronica Mars always seemed to get whenever she asked someone to sneak out some files for her.

 

I don't know if it's really all that foolhardy.  When a super villain's superpower is mind control, I would think the fewer people you have with you the better because anyone you bring with you if just another potential soldier for Kilgrave,  Besides, they didn't completely shut him down, or at least Trish didn't.  She merely reacted to Simpson's protestation that Jessica needed him.  Her next line after "no, she doesn't" is "but seriously, he could be useful."  Which is why they ended up bringing Simpson along.

 

As for Simpson agreeing so quickly to hand over the footage, that might have been an early sign that Simpson was a little shady.  He's a former special ops guy who let a nefarious drug company do tests on him to increase his strength.  He sounds exactly like the kind of person who would break rules when he thought it served his purposes.

[tanita]

Honestly people, just because Daredevil is immune to Kilgrave's power in the comics, doesn't mean he would in the tv show. If anything, given that his sense of hearing is heightened because of his blindness, I would think he would be in an immense danger. The power of will trope that everyone seams to call on for Matt and Fisk just doesn't apply in the show. Jessica overcame it either through overexposure (she was under for 6-8 months and maybe the fact that she is a superhuman helped that) or that the act itself was what pushed her. I don't think Jessica has ever killed anyone before or since (save Kilgrave) - deep down she wants to help people, to make a difference. On the other side, Simpson as a solder probably killed before and Luke Cage was ready to murder that bus driver.

Edited November 27, 2015 by tanita

[Cranberry]

As for Kilgraves power, I think by the end you would have to see him or hear him. If you can't do either, he can't affect you. Trish wore headphones but also a pulled hoodie over her head. When the headphones fell of in the struggle, his voice commands took over. He had increased his power, in duration, the amount of space it would cover and that it no longer needed close proximity - he could do it over electronics, like phones and loudspeakers. How that translates into real world viral spread I have no clue. Sometimes it's best if those things remain a mystery.

The virus itself could spread out a relatively large distance from him by the end, but like xqueenfrostine said above, the virus just primed people for his voice commands. He could deliver those over the radio or tv, but the people who heard them would still need to be within that radius to be affected.

[Sakura12]

What I've read about Season 2 for this show, it seems like Netflix's plan is Daredevil S1, Jessica Jones S1, Daredevil S2, Luke Cage S1 and Iron Fist, Punisher or whoever they get S1, then that leads to a The Defenders Netflix Movie with all of them. If Jessica Jones gets a S2 it will be after that. I'm pretty sure Jessica is going to be showing up on season 2 of Daredevil probably the last episode like Claire, then she might be in the Luke Cage series as well. Then we'll see her team up with everyone in the movie.

[The Crazed Spruce]

-Kilgrave’s powers through out the series seem to indicate that he had total control over his victims.  Yet when he took control over Hogarth, she was able to manipulate his instructions to end up at her estranged wife’s place.  I know that he stated for her to take him to “a doctor she trusted”, but to take him to the wife she dumped and was also in the midst of blackmailing her?  You would think in a major city, Hogarth would be familiar with another doctor that she trusted.

If they stick to the letter of the command, the victims still have a little bit of leeway. (Like how Trish put the bullet in her mouth when she was told to "put it in her head".) Her ex may not be the only doctor that Hogarth trusted, but she did trust her, at least medically. She's used to manipulating things to her advantage, and apparently figured that she could do the same here, and get Kilgrave to make her ex give in to her demands. Didn't work out, but that's probably what she was thinking.

-During the setup to the final battle, how did Trish resist Kilgrave’s power?  I know she had headphones (noise canceling?) on with music blaring, but it was explained his power was viral in nature.  The headphones should be an ineffective defense when combatting his power.

True, the virus compels people to obey Kilgrave's commands, but they still need to hear the commands. If she doesn't know what he's asking her to do, she can't be forced to do it.

[The Kings Foot]

 

-During the setup to the final battle, how did Trish resist Kilgrave’s power?  I know she had headphones (noise canceling?) on with music blaring, but it was explained his power was viral in nature.  The headphones should be an ineffective defense when combatting his power.

 

I realize that the reason for both inconsistencies is probably “Drama!”.  I’m hoping someone can come up with explanations besides that.

 

You cant follow a command  you cant hear .

Edited November 27, 2015 by The Kings Foot

[VCRTracking]

It does worry me that a second season depends less on viewership and more on Marvel Netflix' busy schedule of projects according to this article from Vanity Fair. They have as much on their plate until 2010 as the movies. They have to do shows on Luke Cage, Iron Fist, all leading up to The Defenders. There's even talk of a Punisher series before that. Look I don't care if it's just a movie on Netflix as long as we get another solo Jessia Jones before putting her with The Defenders.

Edited November 28, 2015 by VCRTracking

[zxy556575]

Moved from the episode thread:

 

I want to like this show but damn, it's dark. I like my super-heros with a side of snark. BTW the incest twins? They are gross and creepy and not at all funny.

 

I'm with you there on the twins but only partly there on the lack of humor. While I agree that the show doesn't take a snarky or irreverent tone like Mars or Buffy or Rockford, where we diverge is that I prefer it that way. There are a few lighter throwaway lines/scenes and some of what Kilgrave does could be considered black humor, but for me, the show depicts a very bleak and disturbing look at how one particular psychopath has gutted people's lives, and how one extremely damaged person has struggled to fight back and reclaim hers. I think injecting too much ironic or sarcastic humor into that would be jarring.

 

It's also clear that -- even more than usual -- the show is not for everyone and YMMV. I haven't recommended it to anyone I know IRL because I'm pretty sure most of my relatives and friends would find it too disturbing.

Edited November 28, 2015 by lordonia

[thuganomics85]

Overall, I really enjoyed the series.  Jessica was flawed and could be unlikable at times, but I always felt for her and found it believable that she would become this way, after what had happened to her.  Even during her mistakes, I always respected for her for trying to take control of things again, even if I questioned some of her methods.  And I enjoyed Krysten Ritter's work in this.

 

What I really loved was her relationship with Trish.  I'm glad that, instead of the one she had with Luke, it was this one that really seem to be the heart of the show.  Trish was basically a rock for Jessica.  As much as she cared for Luke, I think even if he did die, Jessica would have moved on.  But I truly think if anything happens to Trish, Jessica would really fall apart.  But I like that Trish wasn't just an appendage, and actually had her own motivations, relationships, and story-lines.  I was always glad to see Rachael Taylor get to shine in something, after being less then impressed in her performances in the past three shows (Charlie's Angels, 666 Park Avenue, Crisis.)

 

And then there is Kilgrave, who I think will really not only be my favorite Marvel villain or comic villains, but one of the best villains on TV.  Every scene of his, he was just so creepy, menacing, and disturbing.  And he did have a charm about him at times, which just made it even worse, because I imagine that a lot of people out there can be awful human beings, but have similar charm, and skate by, so it gives a realistic sense to him. And I loved that his main motivation wasn't taking over the world or gaining some kind of power (until the very end), but a scary obsession over a woman.  An obsession that led to him not only violating Jessica, but leaving a trail of bodies in his wake, and knowing it didn't effect him in any shape or form.  David Tennant was so good that I actually kind of wonder if I will ever look at him the same way again, whenever I catch another rerun of his Doctor Who episodes.

 

I think the only thing I wasn't a huge fan of was the Simpson plot near the end, but it looks like that's more a set-up for a potential season two story, so I'm wiling to look past it.

[The Kings Foot]

It does worry me that a second season depends less on viewership and more on Marvel Netflix' busy schedule of projects according to this article from Vanity Fair. They have as much on their plate until 2010 as the movies. They have to do shows on Luke Cage, Iron Fist, all leading up to The Defenders. There's even talk of a Punisher series before that. Look I don't care if it's just a movie on Netflix as long as we get another solo Jessia Jones before putting her with The Defenders.

 

Well Jessica will almost certainly be a regular guest star in Luke Cage's series since most of it takes place after meeting Jessica.  

 

At least thats what ive heard.