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ApathyMonger

S01.E01: Dulcinea

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Thanks to those who explained why GOT and The Expanse were unfair comparisons. Special thanks to Danny Franks, who probably gave the most detailed, articulate reasons that I've read, thus far, beyond some general, superficial differences.

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Just watched this last night, and I really enjoyed it!  But man, I can't hear anything they are saying!!  And I don't know any of the character's names.  So... I'm mostly just confused.

Not giving anything away here BUT I watched it twice then watched all four episodes available on demand. It really makes more sense with 1-2 episodes. The first time I watched, I didn't see all of the details, reactions and such.

Plus closed captioning helps.

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Not giving anything away here BUT I watched it twice then watched all four episodes available on demand. It really makes more sense with 1-2 episodes. The first time I watched, I didn't see all of the details, reactions and such.

 

Plus closed captioning helps.

 

They're expecting a lot from us, especially with all the slang and Pidgin. I had to put in the effort to watch the episodes twice as well. I liked the concept enough to do so, but it may be driving some viewers away.

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They're expecting a lot from us, especially with all the slang and Pidgin. I had to put in the effort to watch the episodes twice as well. I liked the concept enough to do so, but it may be driving some viewers away.

Thankfully I can say that episode one is the only one you may feel the need to watch twice so you don't feel lost.

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I did have to watch it twice too and it seems worth it. Headphones help too. But I still think it's too dark. One shouldn't have to watch twice to figure out what's on the screen or what is being said.

I gave it a few more episodes and it improved for me overall. Right now, none of the characters are in any way intriguing and I couldn't help comparing with BSG where the characters just jumped off the screen in their first scenes and intrigued me. These here just seem flat and cliche.

Edited by supposebly
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Nobody knows what form future language will take of course, so they just pick a language randomly to represent it. The Jamaican lilt when speaking English is a good compromise - signals difference yet is still understandable. I think it's cool that they try, years ago everybody would have just spoken standard US English in such a show. Martians still speak English though. Have to strike a balance, can't be subtitling major characters.

Real world production concerns Perhaps because so many of the cast are Canadian and a riff off of French is an easier second language for them?

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GoT is also premium cable and this is basic cable. The zero g sex scene was the only part that invites the comparison IMO.

 

Have now read Leviathan Wakes and things make more sense. I had to stop on page 28 and go back and rewatch the first 15 minutes. Did not catch that was Julie Mao we see at the beginning, didn't see the name of the ship stenciled on her coverall so there was no association when they named the Scopuli later. Also watched through episode 4 On Demand. I will probably stick with the first season but don't feel the need to catch it as broadcast. Why change Ade who was Nigerian into a white blond girl? There was no purpose to that. Also the book and series are conflating the outer planets and the asteroid belt which I would consider completely different.

 

In the book the Captain answers the distress call in accordance with naval custom, there's none of Holden sneaking around to log the call, nor is he the reluctant acting XO. Is this just to emphasize he's the type to bull ahead and do what he thinks is right without considering the consequences? And I can't figure why they later throw in the part about Naomi being a suspected OPA spy. That has no bearing on anything else, unless they plan wholesale changes in the plot.

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I should thereotically love this, especially since CJ Cherryh is my favorite author and the DNA of her Merchanter universe is all over this, but I'm two episodes in and have very little sense of who is who or WTF is going on because everyone is mumbling. I know sound mix issues have been mentioned, but it's almost like they directed everyone: "talk real soft so it seems more gritty and realistic".

It also feels very much "plot over character", which belies the BSG comparisons to me, but maybe that would be less true if I could hear the dialogue or learn anyone's name.

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Why change Ade who was Nigerian into a white blond girl?

Also the book and series are conflating the outer planets and the asteroid belt which I would consider completely different.

 

In the book the Captain answers the distress call in accordance with naval custom, there's none of Holden sneaking around to log the call, nor is he the reluctant acting XO. Is this just to emphasize he's the type to bull ahead and do what he thinks is right without considering the consequences? And I can't figure why they later throw in the part about Naomi being a suspected OPA spy. That has no bearing on anything else, unless they plan wholesale changes in the plot.

The Ade thing annoyed me.  The book series has an extremely diverse cast of characters.  I just hope this whitewashing of characters of color doesn't continue.  

 

To the highlighted, no, it's the same.  The OPA in the books and the show both appear to consist of all inhabited areas beyond Mars.  

 

The spoilered section I'm taking to the book talk thread as it brings up things that are in other episodes and future books.  

Edited by Lion

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Why change Ade who was Nigerian into a white blond girl? There was no purpose to that.

I'd forgotten she was Nigerian in the book, but that's sad. Kind of exacerbated by half of her character's onscreen purpose being the zero-g sex scene. I think they've been pretty good otherwise on that front, though.

Also the book and series are conflating the outer planets and the asteroid belt which I would consider completely different.

no, it's the same. The OPA in the books and the show both appear to consist of all inhabited areas beyond Mars.

They're definitely "geographically" distinct, but in the economy of the Expanse they serve similar purposes and are populated by similar people. The gas giants themselves are difficult to tap, but their moons function similarly to the big planetoids in the Belt like Ceres.
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I've been binge-watching and I'm up to episode 8, so can give a bit of spoilered  insight into "Dulcinea":

In episode 7, we find that Holden is a fan of Cervantes, and still thinks that Don Quixote is a comedy, not a tragedy.  As such, he would see "Dulcinea" as the the fine lady, not the woman of the street.  He sees his ship as more than a bucket of bolts, and the "Mickies" as more than just thugs.

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For binge able shows I like a general discussion thread because I don't always want to do a ep by ep discussion but since there isn't I'll just say I started

this last night.  Got up to about ep 5 and I like it quite a bit.  Didn't know about it till just a few days ago.  Was  surprised by the number of recognized

actors I saw.  Lately I've been having trouble finding something that holds  my interest.  The number of started shows and movies is quite high, just...oh this has 

been done to death, to slow, whatever.  Feeling my age I guess.  

Glad I found thid.

Edited by marys1000
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On 12/24/2015 at 1:53 AM, Lord Donia said:

 

They're expecting a lot from us, especially with all the slang and Pidgin. I had to put in the effort to watch the episodes twice as well. I liked the concept enough to do so, but it may be driving some viewers away.

I think you can ignore it, body language and the regular english give enough context.  They just throw it in there for "realism" I guess.  Very Firefly. 

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On 12/27/2015 at 7:47 PM, kieyra said:

I should thereotically love this, especially since CJ Cherryh is my favorite author and the DNA of her Merchanter universe is all over this, but I'm two episodes in and have very little sense of who is who or WTF is going on because everyone is mumbling. I know sound mix issues have been mentioned, but it's almost like they directed everyone: "talk real soft so it seems more gritty and realistic".

It also feels very much "plot over character", which belies the BSG comparisons to me, but maybe that would be less true if I could hear the dialogue or learn anyone's name.

I love CJ Cherry too!  And Elizabeth Moon (Sassinak and Sheepfarmers Daughter). 

As for zero g sex - didn't look too realistic to me.  Every push would result in a lot of movement whereas they just stayed in place.

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I just finished one of my shows and I'm starting this one since I heard so much about it.  Way too overwhelmed with the number of characters in the opener, and trying to place names to faces.  Very plot-heavy and most of the characters are interchangeable.  But it's the first episode, so plot is going to take priority.  I expect it will slow down a bit and I'll start to get to know who these people are.

Edited by Dobian · Reason: typo

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I admit that I felt a bit overwhelmed at the beginning too - it's the curse of book adaptations. Since I'm not patient enough to wait I went digging for answers on the net. It helped but there's always the risk of getting spoiled. If you read episode threads here lots of things will probably get clarified without spoilers. Enjoy! 

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On 8/31/2019 at 11:04 AM, Dobian said:

I just finished one of my shows and I'm starting this one since I heard so much about it.  Way too overwhelmed with the number of characters in the opener, and trying to place names to faces.  Very plot-heavy and most of the characters are interchangeable.  But it's the first episode, so plot is going to take priority.  I expect it will slow down and bit and I'll start to get to know who these people are.

At the very least stick with it through ep4, "CQB."  (Close Quarters Combat)

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6 hours ago, JZL said:

At the very least stick with it through ep4, "CQB."  (Close Quarters Combat)

Well I've watched three episodes now and I really liked two and three so I'm sticking with it.

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I just finished the first season and went back immediately and started a rewatch. Like others I was pretty confused the first time I watched (I was also multi-tasking, which I’ve learned isn’t wise with this show), but on rewatch I’m enjoying seeing the seeds that were planted from the very beginning that are tied to the bigger storylines.

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1 hour ago, bethy said:

I just finished the first season and went back immediately and started a rewatch. Like others I was pretty confused the first time I watched (I was also multi-tasking, which I’ve learned isn’t wise with this show), but on rewatch I’m enjoying seeing the seeds that were planted from the very beginning that are tied to the bigger storylines.

I was definitely overwhelmed at first.  I think I actually wrote down all the character's names and kept my list handy for a few episodes.  Then I discovered I was having trouble remember the names of the ships 🙂  But I do love this show!  I've done a couple of rewatches, and I love them every time.

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On 12/28/2020 at 3:55 AM, Ziggy said:

I was definitely overwhelmed at first.  I think I actually wrote down all the character's names and kept my list handy for a few episodes.  Then I discovered I was having trouble remember the names of the ships 🙂  But I do love this show!  I've done a couple of rewatches, and I love them every time.

Amazon prime shows the name of each character and actor on the screen when you pause. So at least new viewers who watch first on prime will have that for help

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12 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Amazon prime shows the name of each character and actor on the screen when you pause. So at least new viewers who watch first on prime will have that for help

I’ve been using that to help me with who some of the actors are, but not for the characters. 🤦🏼‍♀️ Great idea!

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On 12/29/2020 at 5:29 PM, Holmbo said:

Amazon prime shows the name of each character and actor on the screen when you pause. So at least new viewers who watch first on prime will have that for help

Oooh!  Good point.  I have watched the entire series as it aired, so I did watch the first season on SyFy.

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