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B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

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Why is Xander still in the opening credits?

Oh Brooke. The karma bus is coming for you and it's loaded with TNT.

Don't bother unpacking, Ridge. Guess you'll have to go back to freeloading at your daddy's place. (But ugh, not looking forward to another six months of back and forth conversations about the significance of one kiss.)

All I want is for Wyatt to give Sally one last roll in the hay and for her to end up pregnant. Please, please, please, please, please! 🙂

Hmm, so maybe Dr. Peloton Sad Face Escobar isn't really a physician. Or Sally is paying her a lot to support the scam.

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How much do you want to bet that the video of Brooke and Bill wind up on Brooke’s digital picture frame?  No doubt about it. 

 

I kind of knew that Sally wasn’t dying but I was expecting a miracle cure and not a scam.  Well I guess it was expected since the scam is the standard go to of TIIC.   

 

 

 

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On 3/19/2020 at 6:42 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Quinn only told half of the story. $Bill despises Ridge too. Shauna might not want to be stepping into the middle of a long-running feud. Especially when one of parties to it owns a helicopter and there's a big ocean nearby. 🙄

Seeing Denise Richard reenact the flailing Ridge fall from the helicopter into the ocean ‘green screen’ would crack.me.up. 

Sally running a scam on Wyatt? I ain’t mad. But the show better not do her like they did Caroline and give her an ‘ironic’ death.

And in one of my predictions that won’t come true, despite the show seemingly setting it up- when Quinn’s scheme backfires and Eric dumps her ass, I can totally see her going all bad and uniting with a nothing to lose Thomas to take down their common enemies Brooke and Liam. Quinn’s hatred of Liam will resurface when Bill is mean to Wyatt and they’ll scheme and rage about their hatred for both of them which will lead to hate rage sexy times. Seriously, who else are they gonna out Thomas with? And Quinn/Thomas almost scheming before was floated for a reason. I’d actually be down with it as long as it ends with Bill burying both of them alive and building Skye on top of their corpses 😂 I kid. Mostly.

Edited by TobinAlbers
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3 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Sally running a scam on Wyatt? I ain’t mad. But the show better not do her like they did Caroline and give her an ‘ironic’ death.

Me, neither. Fuck him and Flo.

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I don't care about Wyatt or Flo, but Sally pretending to be dying soon affects other people who care about her as well.  It is a shitty, crazy thing to do, and in the future, any guy she would be interested in who found out what she did wouldn't touch her ass with a ten foot pole. 

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What doesn't make sense about the Sally scam is all of those scenes where she was obviously experiencing symptoms of her mystery disease when she was alone. All those times we saw her grab her shaking hand when she was trying to draw? And if Dr. Peleton isn't a real dr, how would she be able to get into a room at the hospital where she delivered the news to Sally and Katie?  I know...silly me for expecting anything on Show to make sense!

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What doesn't make sense about the Sally scam is all of those scenes where she was obviously experiencing symptoms of her mystery disease when she was alone. All those times we saw her grab her shaking hand when she was trying to draw? And if Dr. Peleton isn't a real dr, how would she be able to get into a room at the hospital where she delivered the news to Sally and Katie? 

Stress? Anxiety? Panic attacks? Or, the actress was in contract negotiations and TPTB wanted her to know that if she didn't play ball they were prepared to kill her character off. It's still possible for Sally to die though, but maybe it'll be sudden like a car accident or getting shot.

I just hate that when the truth comes out Flo and Wyatt will be made to look like Sally's victims instead of the other way around. Yo, Bradley, a whole lot of us loathe Flo. No matter how many body parts she donates to Logans or how many times she loans Wyatt to dying rivals, we're still gonna loathe her. There's no fixing that baby-stealing skank. Give. It. Up.

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7 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yo, Bradley, a whole lot of us loathe Flo. No matter how many body parts she donates to Logans or how many times she loans Wyatt to dying rivals, we're still gonna loathe her. There's no fixing that baby-stealing skank. Give. It. Up.

THIS. Bradley is so stubborn regarding the vanilla, uninteresting and pointless character Flo. I’m sure Katrina B. is a perfectly nice person and I’d never wish for anyone to lose their job (especially during these uncertain times) but he really needs to give up trying to make Flo happen.

Not sure how I feel about Sally turning villainess in this way. I mean, it’s horrible to allow people who care about you to think you’re dying and not immediately put them at ease (remember, it was blabbermouth Katie who set everything in motion) but is it baby-napping and watching your blood kin suffer the loss of her child knowing you could end her pain by telling her the truth?
 

NO, BRADLEY. 

I can honestly say that this reveal, as stupid and senseless and not supported by previous plot point and writing as it is, was SUCH a soapy moment and made me gasp in a way I hadn’t for a soap opera. I’m Hispanic and Courtney Hope sold the angry, scamming Sally and made me interested to see where this goes and gave us a classic moment akin to when a telenovela makes you put hand to mouth in surprise.
 

I’m honestly wondering if this is Bradley’s spiteful way of letting us know we’re not getting Wally and that he begrudgingly understands Sally is too popular a character to kill off. 
 

ETA: The more I think about it, if the end of the pathetic, hang-dog kicking her over and over while she’s down Sally has to come at the expense of Wally, then so be it. But none of this changes the facts that Sally is the most dynamic and interesting character on this stupid show, Courtney Hope one of the most talented actresses and I hope she, in great soap opera villainy fashion burns this mutha (figuratively, of course) to the ground! 🔥 🔥 🔥 💃🏻

Edited by smijca
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1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Stress? Anxiety? Panic attacks? Or, the actress was in contract negotiations and TPTB wanted her to know that if she didn't play ball they were prepared to kill her character off.

Probably that last thing. They've been truly garbage to every female not named Steffy or Hope over the last ten years and.the Spectras are expendable, as evidenced by Bell killing the only Forrester/Spectra child who also happened to be Thorne's only child.

But I too hate that Sally pulled this because all her self righteous haters will feel vindicated in spite of all their murders and cheating and rapes and baby trafficking they've engaged in. Personally,I'm more pissed that Sally is putting energy into a guy that's become an even bigger flake than Liam OR Ridge than the fact that Flo and Wyatt are being decieved.

1 hour ago, smijca said:

The more I think about it, if the end of the pathetic, hang-dog kicking her over and over while she’s down Sally has to come at the expense of Wally, then so be it. But none of this changes the facts that Sally is the most dynamic and interesting character on this stupid show, Courtney Hope one of the most talented actresses and I hope she, in great soap opera villainy fashion Burns this mutha (figuratively, of course) to the ground! 🔥 🔥 🔥 💃🏻

This. Original recipe Sally Spectra wasn't above some dirty tricks, especially not ones that exposed the Forresters as the hypocrites they are (like the time she put a picture of Lauren and Eric in bed with one another at his and Steph's wedding!) and she sure as hell didn't put up with being a punching bag. I miss Sally's old crew, but if Vinnie is gonna stick around, I'd rather she be pairing up with him over Steffy (who let's face it, Bell is never going to let her escape the ToD and more than Brooke or Taylor ever left theirs).

Edited by Anna Yolei
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Sheesh ... I didn't see that coming. Co-signing that none of this makes sense. I am guessing that there was so much blow-back from fans who didn't want to have Sally killed off, that the writers had to do a hard swerve to correct course.

It is just too much disbelief to suspend. C'mon, how did Katie just happen to be walking by the doctor's office when Sally was there? Katie has been through enough medical crises to recognize bogus medical reports and scans. Why would Sally purposely jeopardize her career at FC? If it didn't work the first time, well, it certainly will now! This really is a new low for insulting viewer intelligence. 

This also probably means more hysterical Katie. She'll be upset over being played by Sally and 
cheated on by Bill. But ... I will take that over Flo, Wyatt, Hope, Thomas, Steffy and Liam.

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So Sally has been faking a terminal illness?

VJ2f.gif

Because if ever a twosome deserved it more, it's Flatt. 

And Sally lying about being sick isn't in the same universe as Flo being an accessory to kidnapping and human trafficking.

And Wyatt and Flo thought it was fine and dandy to be going behind Sally's back when they were cheating with each other - not once, but twice.

Karma is a bitch.

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I think she’s lying about it so Wyatt rushes into a marriage w her and doesn’t since a pre-nup because she’s “dying.” Whooops! 😂 

And to break him up w Florence. 

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LOL at Sally knowing Katie was the perfect person to whom she should confide her "secret" and that she'd tell the whole world in about 2.5 seconds. 

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This storyline with Sally and the doctor is comical. The doctor who always wanted to be a fashion designer. Please. A mystery fatal disease cured in three weeks. Eighth grade drama club could do better.

Brooke and Ridge throwing a party because they are back together? 

I hate Quinn like this. She and Brooke are no Alexis and Crystal.

so lame.

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I really, really hope Dr. Sad Eyes 😩  doesn't become a recurring character but, alas, I think she will.   

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Dr. Penny Peloton Panic Face is cracking me up. Either the actress has a background in theater or her acting training mainly involved making emo faces with her big eyes.

If Sally's supposed to be dying how is she going get Penny a job at FC? Deathbed request to Steffy and Ridge?  😑

Lol, Quinn acting like the cat that swallowed all the canaries in the state of California. She was positively giddy knowing what was coming down for Brooke.

WTAF? Flo, stay in your baby-stealing lane. Sally doesn't need to hear anything from you. Ugh, this bish.

Wow, Donna looked like Marilyn Monroe in that red dress. Wonder what kind of guys she pulls on the dating apps? I'm thinking men in their 80s and 90s. 🤔

It's gonna piss off at least a couple of people but IMO that video of Brooke kissing Bill will be good for her in the long run. At least Bill doesn't have to take a hazmat shower before he and Brooke get down to business. 😼

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8 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

So Sally has been faking a terminal illness?

VJ2f.gif

Because if ever a twosome deserved it more, it's Flatt. 

And Sally lying about being sick isn't in the same universe as Flo being an accessory to kidnapping and human trafficking.

And Wyatt and Flo thought it was fine and dandy to be going behind Sally's back when they were cheating with each other - not once, but twice.

Karma is a bitch.

Facts 💯

And bonus for her playing the Forresters like a virtuoso. The whole reasoning for her getting booted was such bullshit in the first place. if I were Sally Is be wanting to put the screws on  those stupid bints too, way more I'd want to get my worthless boyfriend back.

I did laugh at the line about Katie being a blabbermouth though. She really can't help herself.

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4 hours ago, seasons said:

This storyline with Sally and the doctor is comical. The doctor who always wanted to be a fashion designer.

It's not like B&B hasn't done this before with Bridget 🤣 We got that hilarious Madam X story with her Russian accent and jet black wig that looked way better than anything Steffy's gotten in the last 5 years. Good times 😂

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I wish this storyline was about Sally getting revenge on Wyatt and Flo instead of wanting him back. This way still makes Sally look way more pathetic than she deserves. 
 

I was wondering who was going to take over as designer for Hope for the Future now that Thomas skipped town. The answer is obviously a doctor with no real fashion experience who risks her medical career to get into fashion. Fashion is about taking risks y’all! 

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What is Sally’s malfunction?  I guess she didn’t learn from Lurch and Stuffy that you can’t win an significant other by deception.  Wyatt is a mush but, like Liam realized that Hope was his first love and sole mate, Wyatt realizes the same with Flo.

In retribution, Sally is an amateur but when it comes to Quinn, she is the Queen of Retribution.  Quinn’s fury is no holds barred.

Did anyone notice that Dr Penny, Monica Ruiz, is the model, in the Peleton commercial, that caused a lot of controversy.  

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It's never a good idea to fake something that could actually happen to you.  I'm talking to you, Sally.

I can understand her wanting some kind of revenge, but this was a crappy, sadistic way to get it.  I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

23 minutes ago, Waldo13 said:

Did anyone notice that Dr Penny, Monica Ruiz, is the model, in the Peleton commercial, that caused a lot of controversy.  

Yeah, I noticed her.  She had those same big sad eyes in the Peleton commercial, which is why she got so much sympathy and the "husband" got slammed for giving her the Peleton.

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I had to laugh at Dr Penny wanting to be in the fashion industry instead of being a doctor. What a waist of time and money not to mention at least $150,000 cut in salary.  
 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Did anyone notice that Dr Penny, Monica Ruiz, is the model, in the Peleton commercial, that caused a lot of controversy.  

Yeah. That’s why @Joimiaroxeu has been calling her Dr Peloton the past few pages now. 

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Fuhgetaboutit, Bradley. I am never going to root for doe-eyed Flo. She is a criminal who evaded punishment. I don’t care how many body parts she donates, I will never like Flo. 
Why was Sally shaking and grabbing her head in pain when she was alone?

I hope Eric dumps Quinn after this. She’s another criminal who evaded punishment. Plus, she was busy stuffing her tongue down her stepson Ridge’s throat at one time.

Hey, Dr. Stupid, if you didn’t want to be an MD, why didn’t you just flunk out before getting into debt? 🙄

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Maybe they’ll play it off like she’s mentally ill later. Or that she really has the tumor she lied about having and it will be a real twist and “careful what you wish for, bitch” moment. 

The whole scheme is very Taylorian. And I don’t like being reminded of that woman. 

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9 hours ago, Angeleyes said:

I was wondering who was going to take over as designer for Hope for the Future now that Thomas skipped town. The answer is obviously a doctor with no real fashion experience who risks her medical career to get into fashion. Fashion is about taking risks y’all! 

Wasn't Bridget a Doc that went into fashion?

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1 hour ago, bannana said:

Wasn't Bridget a Doc that went into fashion?

Yes, she "reinvented" herself as "Madame X" and wore a black wig in a bob style...which IMO looked good on Ashley Jones.  I really don't blame @Angeleyes for not realizing they already did that with Bridget, I think the show forgot there even IS a Bridget 🙂 

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I know, a lot of people on this board like Sally. But faking a terminal illness to leach onto a guy who doesn’t really want to be with you? PATHETIC.

It doesnt even make her a full-on villain AFAIC. Just makes her weak.  
Thomas is psychopathic so this kind of nonsense made more sense for his character. It’s embarrassing for Sally to stoop to this.

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At least with Bridget, she grew up with her family in the industry so it wasn’t as foreign a concept as Dr Peloton suddenly wanting to give everything up to go in that direction. 

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As a Bridget stan it bothered me because I found it refreshing in a show and families of fashion and modeling fluff we had this STEM woman committed to medical research and ER working and it was a call back to her mother who also was a woman of sciences.

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4 hours ago, lgprimes said:

I know, a lot of people on this board like Sally. But faking a terminal illness to leach onto a guy who doesn’t really want to be with you? PATHETIC.

It doesnt even make her a full-on villain AFAIC. Just makes her weak.  
Thomas is psychopathic so this kind of nonsense made more sense for his character. It’s embarrassing for Sally to stoop to this.

It was embarrassing when Caroline did it too.

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1 hour ago, Petunia13 said:

As a Bridget stan it bothered me because I found it refreshing in a show and families of fashion and modeling fluff we had this STEM woman committed to medical research and ER working and it was a call back to her mother who also was a woman of sciences.

I'm hoping when RJ returns it's because he's completed medical school and is starting his job at a hospital in LA. Or at the very least has a PhD in Chemistry and knows materials science so he can work at the Forrester labs like mom did with no designs on the big chair.

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5 hours ago, lgprimes said:

I know, a lot of people on this board like Sally. But faking a terminal illness to leach onto a guy who doesn’t really want to be with you? PATHETIC.

It doesnt even make her a full-on villain AFAIC. Just makes her weak.

THIS is why I don't like Sally.  She should be a no-shits-to-give type, but nope, she always needs a man to rescue her and is always desperate to be with a man.

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19 hours ago, lgprimes said:

I know, a lot of people on this board like Sally. But faking a terminal illness to leach onto a guy who doesn’t really want to be with you? PATHETIC.

It doesnt even make her a full-on villain AFAIC. Just makes her weak.  
Thomas is psychopathic so this kind of nonsense made more sense for his character. It’s embarrassing for Sally to stoop to this.

I do wish TIIC found some other way for Sally to put the screws into these two schmucks, because they deserve it. But sadly, in Bell's world, women only exist to prop up a man or to chase after one and those like Bridget who showed a glimmer of backbone are flukes.

Edited by Anna Yolei
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I can't stand looking at Flo's heavy eyebrows.  

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Meh, l'm thinking maybe Shauna and Flo should stop dropping in on people unannounced. Just because they don't have jobs or anything else better to do that doesn't give them permission to violate others' boundaries.

Why would Sally owe Flo anything, especially a "new understanding"? I can't believe we're supposed to side with Flo and Wyatt since they're being so gracious to the "dying" woman. The woman they previously had no problem stomping on--twice--because they were high school sweethearts and destined to be together. 😑

Am 100% on board with Sally blowing smoke up Flo's baby-stealing behind. I want Sally to go full Maury Povich on that trash and her two-timing boyfriend. "Wyatt Spencer, the DNA test results show, you ARE the father!"

Some friend Quinn is. She'll use anyone to get revenge on Brooke, including her BFF Shauna.

Bubbleheads Donna and Brooke don't understand how the internet works apparently. Wiping the  digital album doesn't get rid of the image files and video on it. The album app stores backups of those files somewhere, else it's a crummy app. Plus Quinn still has a copy of the kissing video on her phone.

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Brooke, great excuse. Bill just happened to be there and you fell on his lips.  Almost as bad as Bill just happened to be there for Stuffy and she just happened to fall on his “stallion”. 

Wash rinse repeat.  Caroline fakes dying and gets Lurch and Sally fakes dying to hopefully get Wyatt. Bill breaks up Stuffy and Liam and maybe Brooke and Ridge for the nth teen time.  Same 💩different day. 

Come on without

Come on within

You’ll not see nothing like the mighty Quinn. 

I’m team Quinn because she is who she is and Brooke comes off as just being fake and overly judgmental.  Beside, who can’t get lost in Quinn’s beautiful eyes. Yes I know, shallow, very shallow. 

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Do we have any idea how Flo and Shauna support themselves? Neither one have jobs.

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2 hours ago, Gam2 said:

Do we have any idea how Flo and Shauna support themselves? Neither one have jobs.

Flo has worked at Bikini Bar for months. 

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5 hours ago, Gam2 said:

Do we have any idea how Flo and Shauna support themselves? Neither one have jobs.

Didn’t Flo get a tidy sum from Dr. Buckingham as her cut for being his partner in crime?

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Quinn is much worse than Brooke. It was implied that she killed the owner of the “Hope for the Future” diamond. Then there’s all the crimes she committed against Liam when he had head trauma...

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1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Quinn is much worse than Brooke. It was implied that she killed the owner of the “Hope for the Future” diamond. Then there’s all the crimes she committed against Liam when he had head trauma...

Yes, even though I love Quinn 😏, she clearly intended to kill Deacon.  And of course she could've killed stupid brain-injured Liam, but instead she just raped him.  She is a serious criminal.  She also threatened/attempted to kill Liam before that with the sword.  And maybe the diamond guy, but we never saw that.  She also pushed Ivy into the Seine River, which easily could have killed her.  And didn't she threaten to/try to push Aly (or maybe Ivy) from the famous roof at Forrester?

I haven't watched long enough to know if Brooke is that level of criminal.

Edited by bannana · Reason: remembered some crimes
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1 hour ago, bannana said:

Yes, even though I love Quinn 😏, she clearly intended to kill Deacon.  And of course she could've killed stupid brain-injured Liam, but instead she just raped him.  She is a serious criminal.  She also threatened/attempted to kill Liam before that with the sword.  And maybe the diamond guy, but we never saw that.  She also pushed Ivy into the Seine River, which easily could have killed her.  And didn't she threaten to/try to push Aly (or maybe Ivy) from the famous roof at Forrester?

I haven't watched long enough to know if Brooke is that level of criminal.

For all of Brooke's sins, intentional criminality is not one of them. The absolute most intentionally shitty thing I've seen her set out to do was to send Macy (Thorne's last wife before Brooke married him) and Deacon martinis after Macy's bitterness about that marriage--which I find laughable about as Darla, who Thorne also cheated with, was well into her second trimester at the time--cost Brooke her CEO position, but that's nothing along the scale of, say, paying someone's father to fake being sick to get rid of them, spiking tea to induce an abortion or pretty much everything in Quinn's past before getting with Eric.

With that being said, I can understand why people can root for Quinn. Putting aside her holier-than-thou hypocrisy in this instance, Quinn doesn't hide behind a lampshade of morality for her bullshit the way Taylor and her spawn do and she doesn't put on the innocent "It was a mistake!" act that Brooke continues to pull as she's pushing sixty. And Brooke's constant stupidity does grate, no matter how much more tolerable she is in comparison to the other women on this show.

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9 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Didn’t Flo get a tidy sum from Dr. Buckingham as her cut for being his partner in crime?

Didn't she get $50,000?  Has that ever been discussed?  

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Didn't she get $50,000?  Has that ever been discussed?  

Not on the show by the characters but viewers have sure discussed it.

IIRC, there was a scene where she gave the money back to Dr. London Bridge, trying to act like she had no idea what he'd been up to and she didn't want his dirty money. So I'm of the opinion she doesn't still have the $50k. If she did, why did she bother getting that bartender job?

Flo's probably not paying rent on that condo she lives in (pretty sure Reese gave it to her or was letting her live there for free) so $50k could've kept her in food and gas and utilities and cheap clothes for a few years. She wouldn't have needed a job. But then there was that short period she was working at FC. Hope probably gave her a healthy five- or six-figure salary at least and Flo could've/should've banked some of that money to carry her during the lean times until she could lock down a Spencer heir.

I don't know if she's working now or not but I figure she isn't since it wasn't that long ago she had the surgery to give Katie a kidney. It's doubtful to me the owner of the bar would give his bartenders a health plan and paid time off. Bartenders are a dime a dozen, especially in LA. Now maybe they've hired her back but we haven't seen any scenes of her working there in quite a while. Plus, she never mentions having to go to work. She seems to have all kinds of time to drop in on Wyatt at SP, or sneak into FC to see Katie, or catch Sally doing yoga at the beach house. 😒

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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Knives Out!  Neither one of these bitches has the moral high ground and I'm tired of them sniping at each other.  They do look good though.

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3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Flo's probably not paying rent on that condo she lives in (pretty sure Reese gave it to her or was letting her live there for free

She said he let her take over his lease. So she’s paying rent 

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3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Flo's probably not paying rent on that condo she lives in (pretty sure Reese gave it to her or was letting her live there for free) so $50k could've kept her in food and gas and utilities and cheap clothes for a few years.

Ha. Hahahahahaha. Ha

I'm a California native and $50k doesn't go far here unless you live in the Inland Valley going towards Nevada or Central California. In LA especially, $50k might get you a year of supplies, tops.

For that matter, that $1mill a year salary given to Steffy awhile back is laughably low for the area and class the Forresters are supposed to be from too.

7 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Knives Out!  Neither one of these bitches has the moral high ground and I'm tired of them sniping at each other.  They do look good though.

True. I'm not entirely convinced that Quinn isn't doing the exact same thing Bill used to do by pushing Steffy onto Liam and just fucking Ridge vicariously through Shauna.it was gross then and it's gross now... particularly since Quinn's still gonna need to be sprayed with industrial strength degreaser.

 

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Ha. Hahahahahaha. Ha

I'm a California native and $50k doesn't go far here unless you live in the Inland Valley going towards Nevada or Central California. In LA especially, $50k might get you a year of supplies, tops.

Oh you fancy schmancy CA people and your high costs of living over there. 😉 Okay, point taken. I still don't think Flo has the $50k. Doesn't Shauna own a shop in a casino? Maybe she was kicking in some money. Maybe Bill slid Flo a hefty gratuity for giving Katie the kidney. Maybe Flo's turning tricks off-camera. FFS, Bradley, give us a break. One or two throwaway lines could settle the issue once and for all.

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She said he let her take over his lease. So she’s paying rent 

I don't remember her saying that but I'll take your word for it.

Wonder if B&B is ever going to address the pandemic? FC and SP would have to shut down. SP could probably keep operating remotely but couture clothes aren't going to be on anyone's priority list any time soon. Quinn mentioned that Shauna's having some financial trouble and maybe that was a slight nod to the LV casinos being closed right now.

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Is this Deja Vu all over again?  Brooke saw Ridge kissing Quinn and she went off the deep end. Why would Brooke not expect Ridge to react the same way?  Who is overplaying their hand Quinn or Brooke?  They are both basically in a lose lose situation but, because Eric is a dumb old man, I think he’s more prone to side with Brooke. Brooke might loose Ridge but she has Bill to fall back on. Katie be damned. 

 

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