S05.E06: Room 33

[RedheadZombie]

Yeah, I want to know more specifically how she is an awful terrible woman before I believe it (though, I'm sure it's coming). Liz Taylor spoke of her last week to Sonny Boy, like she had to have been Psychopath Mommy of the Decade. Way more than garden variety "harsh" or similar.

I find Iris the most sympathetic (by far) of the Countesses' posse. The hipster thing was vicious, but she was jonesing for blood at that time and in the process of "turning". The Swedish meatballs situation was bad, but I don't think it went as intended. She only moved them to the bad room after Vendela (?) went poking around and found the mattress monster. That seemed to trigger Iris into setting up the what followed, and I interpreted that as taking out collateral damage. They knew too much, so they had to die.

I've deleted the episode off my DVR, but I interpreted Liz's comment to Donovan as an insult to Donovan as a son, not Iris as a mother. And it was that comment that drove Donovan to save his mother. Iris's character is rather world weary. She seemed beaten down by what she had to do to be near her son. Contrast that to Liz who very happily goes about her life of providing innocent victims to the monsters in that hotel. Iris has a sense of right or wrong and is disturbed by what she's doing. Liz seems to think as long as she can be "real", the death and suffering of others is irrelevant.

[caracas1914]

I'm sorry but the blood spurting out like "Ole Faithful" when someone's neck is slashed looks like a parody of a slasher flick.

Either that, or its an homage to Dan Akyrod's bleeding out Julia Child in that classic SNL skit.

It's like someone turns on the sprinkler when it happens.

[DollEyes]

 

Drag queens are gay men who identify as men but dress as women (or caricatures of women) for a performance. Trans women live as women and think of themselves as such, whether or not they've had hormone therapy or surgery. And there's some evidence of actual brain structure/chemistry differences from cisgender men involved.

 

  I already know the differences between drag queens and trans women and about how trans people feel like they were/are born in the wrong bodies. The point I was trying to make is Liz may dress, act and think like a woman, but when The Countess offered to pay for gender reassignment surgery, Liz refused. Liz lives one way and was lucky to find someone as accepting as Tristan and vice versa. Liz & Tristan's plight gives meaning to the saying, "It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all."

 

  Re John, ITA with the poster who said that Alex should have just divorced John & given him full custody of Scarlett a long time ago, instead of punishing them for not being Holden. Maybe Alex can't help her feelings, but she can help her actions.  John has made mistakes where the kids are concerned, especially shooting Bartholomew with Scarlett in the next room instead of calmly telling her to leave the house or at least sending her upstairs, but at least he loves both his kids, not blatantly favors one at the other's expense. If Scarlett winds up in more danger because of Holden, Alex and/or The Countess, I predict that John will join forces with Liz, Donovan, Ramona & Iris to save her & possibly Holden & stop The Countess once & for all & if Alex dies in  the process, then so be it.

 

  Re the violence & male nudity, I've got no problem with it. After all, the show's rated TV-MA for a reason.

 

 

it turns out that all it took for me to enjoy Wes Bentley's performance this year was him running around bareassed drenched in blood and ranting loudly. Who knew? (it was SUCH an improvement over the blank gravelly whisper delivery he's been giving all season-maybe Alex was as tired of it as I was, and that motivated her to send the Swedish meatballs to push him over the edge to provoke an actual emotional response?)

 

I respectfully disagree. I think that Wes Bentley's doing a great job as John. Bentley's depiction of John's slowly losing his grip on sanity and reality has been very convincing for me.  Re the Swedish Meatballs, I think that Alex's obsession with Holden may have had something to do with her using them against John.

Edited November 15, 2015 by DollEyes

[Bruinsfan]

I'm sorry but the blood spurting out like "Ole Faithful" when someone's neck is slashed looks like a parody of a slasher flick.

It's actually pretty accurate. Blood runs through the neck at pretty high pressure and sprays out if it's slashed, as you can see in Clint Malarchuck's horrific on-ice accident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR-wA4SmbO4

Edited November 15, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Also, it's familiar vampire lore that fetuses grow faster than normal, hence "three weeks", which may have been a lie but she didn't look 9 months either.

Isn't that inconsistent with the baby still being a baby? If you're not going to have vampires age in this show's mythology, than the Countess' son should be whatever he was when the Countess became a vampire (and that infection was passed along).

[Captanne]

Good gravy, I have never heard this vampire lore before!  (Sorry for the rhyming.)  Seriously, I have never heard that vampire babies grow faster because....vampire babies?  WHAH?  

 

Someone tell Bram Stoker because, although I've read and seen plenty of vampires turn children (see:  Interview with a Vampire, by Anne Rice), I have never heard of vampire sex resulting in vampire pregnancy.

 

(Was the Countess a vampire yet when she went to Murder House?  Have I already forgotten how she was turned?  God, I'm getting old.)

[Pixel]

Good gravy, I have never heard this vampire lore before!  (Sorry for the rhyming.)  Seriously, I have never heard that vampire babies grow faster because....vampire babies?  WHAH?  

 

Someone tell Bram Stoker because, although I've read and seen plenty of vampires turn children (see:  Interview with a Vampire, by Anne Rice), I have never heard of vampire sex resulting in vampire pregnancy.

 

(Was the Countess a vampire yet when she went to Murder House?  Have I already forgotten how she was turned?  God, I'm getting old.)

The only place I've ever heard of vampire pregnancy and accelerated fetal growth is Twilight, and I wouldn't call that vampire lore. But I admit, I am no vampire scholar.

[Captanne]

I know nothing about Twilight other than it was written by a fanfic writer (which is interesting) and had something about sparkles.  I think I heard Stephen Colbert describe it once on his satire show.

[Bruinsfan]

There's Eastern European lore about vampires having children with living people (the result is called a dhampir; basically it's Blade), but I don't recall anything about the pregnancy being unusual.

[rubinia]

It's not part of her vampire series, but I think in one of Anne Rice's Mayfair witches books she talks about the witches giving birth to half-demon children that come out fully formed. I think they're called "walking babies" or something. I know that's not vampire lore, but it's close, lol.

[FiveByFive]

Someone tell Bram Stoker because, although I've read and seen plenty of vampires turn children (see:  Interview with a Vampire, by Anne Rice), I have never heard of vampire sex resulting in vampire pregnancy.

They're not vampires. They have a virus. They're all still alive. Their bodies are just different. So there's no reason why a female couldn't get pregnant. The issue is whether or not the baby would turn out normal and as we saw with Bartholomew, that's not what happened. 

 

As tedious as Ryan was pointing out that this was their affliction, "a virus" not true "vampirism," it serves the plot because viruses mutate (the vampire children) and sometimes cause issues during pregnancy (Bartholomew) and don't make you impervious to harm (Tristan having his throat slashed.)

 

The only supernatural thing the virus does is cause people not to age and their injuries heal faster than normal. All the other typical vampire traits are non-existent (dead when turned, fangs, mist, flying, can only be killed by a stake through the heart) or slightly altered (sunlight weakening not killing them.) 

[GoneGirl]

tedious as Ryan was pointing out that this was their affliction, "a virus" not true "vampirism," it serves the plot because viruses mutate (the vampire children) and sometimes cause issues during pregnancy (Bartholomew) and don't make you impervious to harm (Tristan having his throat slashed.)

I was trying to figure out if Bartholomew actually "was born that way" (pardon the pun) or if he looks the way he did due to the method (giant knife) dr Montgomery used to cut him out, or an accident that may have happened (he was dropped when he attacked the nurse)...because the doctor didn't need seem at all phased by his appearance when he handed him over to the countess.

[Captanne]

Oh, even better!  Thanks for clearing up the vampire thing.  I just can't with Twilight.  I'm over 50 and left that sort of angsty pearl-clutching far, far behind.  (Based on my scattered knowledge of something I was never interested in to begin with and entirely based on advertisements and reviews.)

 

I can see the confusion about vampires -- what with the not liking light, drinking blood, and being immortal things.  But a "virus" is also fine and makes the storyline more explicable (?!)

 

For a really good short-lived series from the UK on vampires and viruses (sorry, latin scholars), check out "Ultraviolet".  Really good.

[RedheadZombie]

It's actually pretty accurate. Blood runs through the neck at pretty high pressure and sprays out if it's slashed, as you can see in Clint Malarchuck's horrific on-ice accident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR-wA4SmbO4

 

Apparently Malarchuck had a venous and arterial laceration.  Per Wikipedia, his life was saved because the athletic trainer was an army medic in Vietnam.  Here's the Wikipedia link if anyone's interested.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Malarchuk

 

The only place I've ever heard of vampire pregnancy and accelerated fetal growth is Twilight, and I wouldn't call that vampire lore. But I admit, I am no vampire scholar.

 

I cannot live in a world where Twilight has set rules for modern vampires.  No fangs, accelerated fetal growth, able to go out in sunshine.  Thanks a lot Ryan Murphy, clearly you're a fanboy.

 

I know nothing about Twilight other than it was written by a fanfic writer (which is interesting) and had something about sparkles.  I think I heard Stephen Colbert describe it once on his satire show.

 

I think you're conflating two different series.  Fifty Shades of Grey was Twilight fanfic.

[Petunia13]

Holden seems mentally and emotionally stunted.

[Captanne]

Wait, wasn't Twilight written by a fanfic writer?

 

This is what I get for blissful ignorance of pop media shit.

[Zuleikha]

I cannot live in a world where Twilight has set rules for modern vampires.  No fangs, accelerated fetal growth, able to go out in sunshine.  Thanks a lot Ryan Murphy, clearly you're a fanboy.

 

Twilight didn't set those rules. People have played around with the elements of vampirism for a long time.

 

I would bet Murphy is influenced by the Hunger, not Twilight. The Countess is similar in many elements to Miriam, the main vampire of the Hunger. Vampirism was also portrayed as a virus of some sort in the Hunger, and the vampires used knives concealed in jewelry to kill rather than fangs. I also believe they could go out in sunlight, but it's been a long time since I've seen it.

 

The baby part may have been inspired by Twilight, though (although accelerated fetal growth is not unique to Twilight).

[Epeolatrix]

Dracula could go out in the sunlight, he was just less powerful.

[basil]

Contrast that to Liz who very happily goes about her life of providing innocent victims to the monsters in that hotel.

 

 

 

Does Liz seem to be "very happily go[ing on] about her life" to you? She doesn't seem happy at all to me.

 

I find Iris the most sympathetic (by far) of the Countesses' posse. The hipster thing was vicious, but she was jonesing for blood at that time and in the process of "turning".

 

 

And after? When Iris was gleefully sharing the victims' wine with Liz, joking about how they never got to finish it? Iris could have walked away at any time. She CHOSE to stay and help kill others, out of pure selfishness in order to be near her son. I'm still not entirely sure whether Liz can leave or not, but we know Iris stayed because she wanted to. I don't see how that makes her a sympathetic character. I guess I just don't see the point of rating who is worse or more sympathetic - they're all monsters. 

 

The point I was trying to make is Liz may dress, act and think like a woman, but when The Countess offered to pay for gender reassignment surgery, Liz refused.

 

 

I'm missing your point. Gender reassignment surgery is still pretty primitive. Sure, Liz could get breasts, and something that sort of functions as a vagina, but they can't create a clitoris. There are many reasons to refuse gender reassignment surgery, but I imagine losing the ability to orgasm has to be at the top of that list. As many transwomen before her, Liz may prefer to keep the original equipment in order to retain that aspect of an active and satisfying sexual life.

 

Dracula could go out in the sunlight, he was just less powerful.

 

 

Could he? I don't remember that. I do remember that he could be killed by decapitation. I reread the book about a decade ago. It's interesting how little Dracula is actually in the book.

[FierceCritter]

RE: Vampire pregnancies

FWIW, on Angel (for those who don't know, originally from "Buffy," then in his own series), he got Darla (also a vamp) pregnant. Her pregnancy was accelerated as far as I remember. The offspring wasn't a vampire, but was actually human but with vampire-like strength and agility (and petulance).

By the way, against my better judgment, I watched the Malarchuck video. I can handle TV show gore like AHS and The Walking Dead or even Bones and ER. But that video REALLY upset me. I guess I need to stay away from viewing the real thing. :P (It was good to know he survived.)

[Bruinsfan]

Oh, I wouldn't have shared it if he hadn't survived. It's gruesome, but he made a full physical recovery from the incident.

Could he? I don't remember that. I do remember that he could be killed by decapitation. I reread the book about a decade ago. It's interesting how little Dracula is actually in the book.

He was spotted traveling about by day in the novel. Van Helsing had this to say about some of his limitations:

His power ceases, as does that of all evil things, at the coming of the day. Only at certain times can he have limited freedom. If he be not at the place whither he is bound, he can only change himself at noon or at exact sunrise or sunset. These things are we told, and in this record of ours we have proof by inference. Thus, whereas he can do as he will within his limit, when he have his earth-home, his coffin-home, his hell-home, the place unhallowed, as we saw when he went to the grave of the suicide at Whitby; still at other time he can only change when the time come.

[Captanne]

Having seen (and cautiously loved "The Hunger" -- I even read the book) when it first premiered back in the 80s, it's very clear that that film is Murphy's inspiration for AHS:  Hotel.  Even before the show started there were rumors of courting Bowie to be in it as the stunt casting.  

 

Bowie, by the way, is a brilliant actor.  I've seen everything he's done I could lay my hands on over the years.

 

However, this playing about with "are they vampires or do they just have a virus" is a little bit of a twist -- as I mentioned before, "Ultraviolet" did it very well.  That's a BBC television show (6 episodes?) from, I think the late 90s or early naughties.  I recommend it highly.  (The lead actress' real name is Harker, for trivia fans.)

[FierceCritter]

 

However, this playing about with "are they vampires or do they just have a virus" is a little bit of a twist -- as I mentioned before, "Ultraviolet" did it very well.  That's a BBC television show (6 episodes?) from, I think the late 90s or early naughties.  I recommend it highly.  (The lead actress' real name is Harker, for trivia fans.)

I would assume the movie with Milla Jovovich stemmed from the same source? It was panned by critics, but I liked it. I think I'll see if I can find the TV show.

[Captanne]

I don't know that film although I like Mila Jovovich very much.

[Epeolatrix]

The film and TV show are unrelated.

[Captanne]

Wiki entry for Ultraviolet (BBC TV, 1998) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_(TV_serial)

Edited November 20, 2015 by Captanne

[Bruinsfan]

It's been ages since I saw Ultraviolet, but it fell pretty firmly on the "something supernatural is happening" side of the argument, didn't it? Vampires didn't reflect in mirrors or show up on surveillance devices, phones wouldn't even carry their voices, and they could be reconstituted from cremated remains if blood were poured on them.

[DollEyes]

Basil:  My point is that while Liz wants to live as a woman, her refusal to have the actual surgery for whatever reason is confusing to me because Liz has never said why she refuses to do it.

[basil]

Basil:  My point is that while Liz wants to live as a woman, her refusal to have the actual surgery for whatever reason is confusing to me because Liz has never said why she refuses to do it.

 

 

She actually doesn't outright refuse. She says, if I recall correctly: "Not that - never that, I don't think". As I said before, gender reassignment surgery is still in very primitive stages. I imagine that Liz might not want to trade her ability to orgasm for the rest of her life in order to have a poor facsimile of a vagina - because that's what the surgery means right now.

[Peanut6711]

Definitely noticed nods towards Rosemary's Baby in this one.

[Chaos Theory]

Buffy/Angel also did there share of vampire lore including a vampire birth. But I do think The Countess was inspired mostly by The Hunger which was a pretty awesome movie for the time.  

As for why Liz stayed at the hotel it served the same purpose as it did for everyone else home/prison.  Once she abandoned her life it became the only thing she knew and once she stayed leaving became increasingly difficult.  It was the place she found herself. As for why she didn't have the surgery.  She never explicitly states it but my interpretation was that she never felt the need.