S07.E06: Lies

[morgankobi]

Was she an intern?  I was assuming she was a prospective associate.  I mean why else would they be talking about where she got her law degree?

Diane said summer intern. 

So when are we, anyway? 

[candall]

Boring.  Stupid.  Insufficient twinkle eyes.

 

I LOATHE the cubicle frat boys.

 

My high point was watching the closeup of Diane's manicured finger hesitate and then click another questionable link in an email.

 

At this point, The Good Wife is just the little sample size "gift with purchase" they toss in your bag when you have to record long for Madam Secretary.

[teebax]

Was she an intern?  I was assuming she was a prospective associate.  I mean why else would they be talking about where she got her law degree?

I haven't rewatched, but I remember them talking about an internship. I assume it would be paid, since they did talk about her needing money.

[CleoCaesar]

It’s painful how the Kings attempt to be funny. It’s the NSA dudebros. Who gives a shit.

 

Diane’s obsession with identity politics is gross. Yes, let’s hire a lesser qualified person just because she’s NOT a white male. That’ll get rid of racism and sexism!

 

They could easily fire Howard Lyman from that clip of his interview. But they won’t. Because reasons.

[whatsatool]

I'm loving this season and have forgiven JM for her Archie feud. This season is atonement

Edited November 10, 2015 by whatsatool

[Kromm]

I'm loving this season and have forgiven JM for her Archie feud. This season is atonement

I will admit this season IS somewhat better, in a kind of "it's so over the top it almost seems deliberate" way.  

 

It's not nearly enough though to get any real "forgiveness" for how grotesque and ridiculous JM and the Kings are though. At best I can shove the disdain aside a bit easier when the output is slightly better, but it's still there underneath.

 

Basically I can watch the show, but have little respect for the people making it, I guess.

[red12]

It’s painful how the Kings attempt to be funny. It’s the NSA dudebros. Who gives a shit.

Diane’s obsession with identity politics is gross. Yes, let’s hire a lesser qualified person just because she’s NOT a white male. That’ll get rid of racism and sexism!

They could easily fire Howard Lyman from that clip of his interview. But they won’t. Because reasons.

Yeah, because there are no identity politics involved in a system that is rigged so that the overwhelming majority of those with access to necessary qualifications just happen to be white males with multiple generations of a head start.

[Litnit]

Not to mention the fact that Diane seems to be interested in perpetuating a system that privileges people who are willing to sacrifice any kind of work-life balance in favour of putting in loads of hours.  Didn't she not want to mentor that other woman because she was talking about her boyfriend (details are escaping me)?

[needschocolate]

needschocolate there's no way that they could possibly be that ignorant though can they.  First of all she said she was from Maryland and they assumed Baltimore, then they assumed rough neighbourhood.  I know that rich people live in Maryland and I am from the land of Canada... Canadaland.  And I still know that.  

 

 

I don't know.  Just asking a black job candidate about the "rough" upbringing or area (whatever she said), was just SO wrong. The minority candidate is going to read that statement as indicative of their race and that it is a bad area because of race of people who live there. That statement is so loaded, I don't even understand who anyone could ask that question.  Diane, and Cary for that matter KNOW better. Diane was going to be a judge!  I know better and I am not a lawyer. I have hired people before, and you just don't go there. You could talk about the seaport, the history, the Baltimore Orioles, closeness to DC, the cute small airport and how easy in and out it is (I have flown out of there as an option to NYC or Philly and that alone made it worth it).

 

Also it speaks to the idea that EVERYONE who lives in Baltimore are some kind of criminal and likely black is so offensive in an interview!!! Uh, may I remind that they live in Chicago? Site of some of the most horrific gang wars and lots of crime? (they represented Bishop, they KNOW!)  However, not everyone and every area is like that in Chicago. When a person says they are from NYC, Chicago or Baltimore, they are using the global descriptor, but that doesn't actually say where they lived. The job candidate could have been from a very fine area and family or NOT. That has NOTHING to do with her ability to do the job. NOTHING. Have they learned nothing from Howard's accusations about ageism? To that end, WHY is Howard even interviewing women? You know he will say something racist and insulting. (which THEN they could fire him for, but they did just as poorly) . I do have to wonder, when the girl started recording though. I think that she should sue them, but I would also not hire someone who did what she did (after the fact). 

 

Good points and oh so true.  But I always liked Cary and Diane, and am not happy with what has been done to their characters, so I was just trying to find some way (grasping at straws, really) that their comments were just taken out of context or came out wrong or they misspoke, rather than a sign that the writers are going in a direction that will someday make me want to fast-forward through their scenes.  

 

Another thing to add to the list of what was stupid about that whole interviewing storyline - they are a top law firm, there is probably little chance that a name partner would be interviewing summer interns, let alone all three name partners interviewing all the same applicants.  In a smaller firm, I could see one partner interviewing, or perhaps splitting up the list of applicants and each partner interviewing some (then, maybe the other partner does the second interviews).  

 

And if they all wanted to meet all of the applicants, then they would have had them meet with all of them at once (partners on one side of the table, applicant at the other),

 

The writers come up with some idea - "Hey, let's have LAL get accused of being racist" - and then they contort the most basic ways life works in order to get their storyline.  

[cardigirl]

I was really happy to see the return of the NSA boys and am enjoying this season a lot. Plus, I'm wondering what Eli is really up to.

I thought the press announcement for the presidency was hilarious!!!!

[KaveDweller]

Not to mention the fact that Diane seems to be interested in perpetuating a system that privileges people who are willing to sacrifice any kind of work-life balance in favour of putting in loads of hours.  Didn't she not want to mentor that other woman because she was talking about her boyfriend (details are escaping me)?

 

She wanted to mentor the other woman who basically told her she didn't want the help because her boyfriend was more important to her than her job. Which is perfectly within her right, but I can see why Diane wouldn't want to spend time mentoring someone who wasn't interested in her career. She should find someone who wants what she has to offer. 

 

Does Lockart, Agos, and Lee have an HR department? Cause I would think they'd be involved in interviewing interns. And maybe giving guidelines for appropriate questions with candidates?

[tennisgurl]

What do we have to do to get Carey and Diane a good storyline? Is there a petition I can sign? Is there a suggestion box somewhere? Come one, there has got to be something! Anything is better than "LAL have apparently never seen a black woman before, and they get busted"!  I just really found that to be unbelievable. From Howard, yeah I buy it. But everyone else assuming someone from Baltimore must be from a rough neighborhood? Because shes black? And saying it, basically, out loud? They aren't idiots, they're named partners at a major law firm in a major city! Come on! 

[nara]

What do we have to do to get Carey and Diane a good storyline? Is there a petition I can sign? Is there a suggestion box somewhere? Come one, there has got to be something! Anything is better than "LAL have apparently never seen a black woman before, and they get busted"!  I just really found that to be unbelievable. From Howard, yeah I buy it. But everyone else assuming someone from Baltimore must be from a rough neighborhood? Because shes black? And saying it, basically, out loud? They aren't idiots, they're named partners at a major law firm in a major city! Come on!

Agreed. Especially since Lockhart Gardner had a name partner (Michael Ealy's character) who lived inthe DC area, and an equity partner, Julius, who was also African American, this plot was very poorly executed.

[CleoCaesar]

She wanted to mentor the other woman who basically told her she didn't want the help because her boyfriend was more important to her than her job.

 

And she sounded like a complete airhead with verbal diarrhea, gushing to her boss about how beautiful her boyfriend's hair was. It was far from subtle.

The writing this season is some of the clunkiest in recent memory.

[riverheightsnancy]

Does Lockart, Agos, and Lee have an HR department? Cause I would think they'd be involved in interviewing interns. And maybe giving guidelines for appropriate questions with candidates?

As a side bar, your Honor, ;), I interviewed for a FT College Professor position at a college here in my state with the President and VP of the college, both women (after the selection committee picked me as one of their top picks and after teaching demo and interview with them). The President refused to take my updated CV (I had a major change -pt teaching at a major university-thought it would impress), she refused it because she already had "too much paper" on her desk. She yelled at me later in the interview when she said "That info is not on your CV". (Yeah well I tried to give you an update). Said president proceeded to FILE and BITE HER NAILS during my interview. The VP looked up her emails on her iPad (I could hear the little ding when she got one) and then argued with me about current neurocognitive research in Autism spectrum disorders. I know that is not this woman's area of training. She wouldn't let me explain what I was trying to say, she kept interrupting me as I tried to make my analogy which was in direct response to her question about emerging areas in psychology (my area). The president started out with give me a synopsis of your life all the way back to high school (I seriously wasn't expecting that). She grilled me on why I changed majors in my undergrad, and why I didn't have an EXACT date that I would defend my Dissertation. (it is fluid, one cannot always say until you get closer to the end, it is a projection in the early stages). She was combative with me and would rush my answers and not give me time to respond. She told me that they didn't have a lot of time and to hurry up with my responses. Needless to say, I didn't get the job and during the interview I thought that it had to be some type of joke.

 

In other words, that I must be imagining that it was going as badly as it did, because I couldn't believe that I was receiving this vitriol when not only am I trying to impress them, they should be selling themselves to me as well. It is not a one-way street. She told me that I was the #2 highest scored candidate (like she wanted to prove it wrong or something). I say this because I experienced this in an interview and when I complained to HR about their hiring practices they basically told me that they had given the president and VP instructions about how to interview and not to be on their iPads. There were other things that happened too, and they were fairly egregious. HR was not happy when I reported it. I could tell by the woman's tone over the phone. So, this type of stupid asshole behavior can and does happen. When I told friends of mine (in the same field) many said that they would have walked out. And to be honest, I did want to stand up and say Fuck off, and walk out. But academia is a small world and I thought that it might hurt my career and I also took it because I really needed the job (which I didn't get anyway) and I had serious cognitive dissonance about what was happening. I wish that I had been as quick and recorded it too, but I doubt it would end up with a job eitherway. I did complain to HR and it changed nothing regarding getting hired. 

[wendyg]

That interview sounds like the montage of Dustin Hoffman's character's acting auditions at the beginning of TOOTSIE ("Is my acting interfering with your talking?")

 

I would like to see a necklace competition between Christine Baranski's Diane Lockhart and Candace Bergen's Shirley Schmidt on BOSTON LEGAL.

 

 

[Isazouzi]

I was really happy to see the return of the NSA boys

I don't get why they were so happy to be listening to Alicia again. Is it because she's a link to Peter? For a second, I was thinking that they enjoyed listening to her life, like watching a TV show.

[ChocButterfly]

Am I the only one who absolutetly HATES the NSA story again? Not only it's stupid, is boring as hell. And I cannot believe just because she mentioned Snowden she can have her phone intervened. Don't they actually hear the context? So if I'm talking to a friend over the phone and say the party wa "da bomb" the NSA is inmediatetly going to target me as a potential terrorist? I don't buy it. I'd think they already have many legitemately suspicious people to track to waste time on random jokes. Plus, she's the governer's wife for God's sake!! 

 

The only way I'd forgive that NSA story again is if it'd finally gets Peter in jail where he belongs. I mean, I assume they're bringing this back so the voting fraud thing finally comes to light. Because, let's face it, this is the third time a fraud has been known and nothing has come of it. Nothing. Whatever happened to that video of Peter's henchmen sneaking voting boxes? You'd think he'd be in jail by now. And I was never convinced Peter was innocent way back in season 1 about those corruption charges. Do you guys remember how Alicia was investigating about a necklace (I think) he had given her and it apparently had been bought by tainted money? Why did the writers just forget about all that?

 

Another thing to add to the list of what was stupid about that whole interviewing storyline - they are a top law firm, there is probably little chance that a name partner would be interviewing summer interns, let alone all three name partners interviewing all the same applicants.  In a smaller firm, I could see one partner interviewing, or perhaps splitting up the list of applicants and each partner interviewing some (then, maybe the other partner does the second interviews).

 

This. And the woman wasn't even in the second interview! And why would they even let Howard interview anyone! That's a lawsuit waiting to happene!

I understand the majority of the people here can't believe that Diane, Lee and Cary would be so clueless, but lets'face it, it happens. I had way more racist things said to me when I was studying in the UK by faculty members. These were tenured professors who actually taught masters and PHD to many internatioanl students. You'd think that when at least half their students were foreign, most from developing countries, they'd at least have some clue, but nope. I know none of them meant wrong, they were actually trying to be nice. They were just so clueless. So yeah, I can buy it.

[nara]

Am I the only one who absolutetly HATES the NSA story again? Not only it's stupid, is boring as hell. And I cannot believe just because she mentioned Snowden she can have her phone intervened. Don't they actually hear the context? So if I'm talking to a friend over the phone and say the party wa "da bomb" the NSA is inmediatetly going to target me as a potential terrorist? I don't buy it. I'd think they already have many legitemately suspicious people to track to waste time on random jokes. Plus, she's the governer's wife for God's sake!! 

 

The only way I'd forgive that NSA story again is if it'd finally gets Peter in jail where he belongs. I mean, I assume they're bringing this back so the voting fraud thing finally comes to light. Because, let's face it, this is the third time a fraud has been known and nothing has come of it. Nothing. Whatever happened to that video of Peter's henchmen sneaking voting boxes? You'd think he'd be in jail by now. And I was never convinced Peter was innocent way back in season 1 about those corruption charges. Do you guys remember how Alicia was investigating about a necklace (I think) he had given her and it apparently had been bought by tainted money? Why did the writers just forget about all that?

 

This. And the woman wasn't even in the second interview! And why would they even let Howard interview anyone! That's a lawsuit waiting to happene!

I understand the majority of the people here can't believe that Diane, Lee and Cary would be so clueless, but lets'face it, it happens. I had way more racist things said to me when I was studying in the UK by faculty members. These were tenured professors who actually taught masters and PHD to many internatioanl students. You'd think that when at least half their students were foreign, most from developing countries, they'd at least have some clue, but nope. I know none of them meant wrong, they were actually trying to be nice. They were just so clueless. So yeah, I can buy it.

Not a big fan of the NSA guys either...

When the interviews started, I actually thought they were testing her toughness by deliberately being obnoxious. I was a little surprised when that didn't come out in Diane's second meeting with the candidate.

[Inquisitionist]

Yes. This. I don't understand this at all. Press are at these events, always. That's the whole point of making a public announcement, to have the press carry it on national television.  Not to mention the exact copy of the Obamas would be mocked as being silly and derivative. Adding to the absurdity that the Governor of Illinois was banned from using the Illinois capital steps because of another event. Presumingly they could shut that down, or, I don't know, pick another day for the announcement?? Are we SURE this lady is a good campaign manager?

 

Recreating Obama's announcement was incredibly tone-deaf, and then poorly executed to boot.  Margo should be embarrassed to play this character.

[Julie23]

Ugh, this show is losing me. I was hoping after all the campaigning last year they would return to law, but someone is obsessed with politics. I loathe Peter.

I liked the actual case where Alicia gets shot down, comes at it from another angle, gets shot down again and eventually gets a very nice offer to just go away.

The Lockhart/Agos nonsense - With all the fighting, ageism, racism, etc, are they trying to just get rid of this firm altogether on the show? Because seriously, do they ever have cases anymore? Why do they need associates for if they never have cases? And why would Cary or Diane ever say those things? Howard and Lee, maybe, but I can't believe any lawyer would say such obviously discriminatory things in an interview. Plus the Eli plotting, NSA, Howard awfulness can just go away. This show is just not worth an hour of my time anymore.

[Kromm]

I don't get why they were so happy to be listening to Alicia again. Is it because she's a link to Peter? For a second, I was thinking that they enjoyed listening to her life, like watching a TV show.

She's an attractive MILFy woman who they've probably seen naked (although it's mostly wiretapping I'm sure they've had the occasional bit of direct surveillance too? Or it's simply because their jobs are boring and she's a drama magnet. So yes, they're just watching her life for entertainment. I think that's the point of them.

Am I the only one who absolutetly HATES the NSA story again? Not only it's stupid, is boring as hell. And I cannot believe just because she mentioned Snowden she can have her phone intervened. Don't they actually hear the context? 

They made a point of saying (through one of the guys) that they DID hear the context. They were gaming it on purpose so they didn't lose access to her.

[Winston Wolfe]

I don't get why they were so happy to be listening to Alicia again. Is it because she's a link to Peter? For a second, I was thinking that they enjoyed listening to her life, like watching a TV show.

She's an attractive MILFy woman who they've probably seen naked (although it's mostly wiretapping I'm sure they've had the occasional bit of direct surveillance too? Or it's simply because their jobs are boring and she's a drama magnet. So yes, they're just watching her life for entertainment. I think that's the point of them.

The NSA guys are clearly entertained by Alicia's life.  It's like a reality show to them.  But I'm curious: by direct surveillance, do you mean the NSA might have actually installed cameras in her bedroom and/or bathroom and could have actually seen her naked?  Colour me naive, but I didn't know the government's reach could extend that far.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Winston Wolfe

[Kromm]

The NSA guys are clearly entertained by Alicia's life.  It's like a reality show to them.  But I'm curious: by direct surveillance, do you mean the NSA might have actually installed cameras in her bedroom and/or bathroom and could have actually seen her naked?  Colour me naive, but I didn't know the government's reach could extend that far.

The trope now is swiping access to webcams.  In theory they can be infected with malware that allows them to be turned on and off remotely, the data streamed to whoever, and even the little light can be turned off (although for dramatic reasons on a TV show they might show the light going on to illustrate the person is being spied on).

 

But one assumes that as heavy as the spying seems to have been on Alicia, that some direct surveillance has possibly happened too at some point too. I'm sure it's not a stretch to think some apartment conveniently empty across the street had guys with cameras there at some point when Feds were really trying to get something on her.

 

All tropes of this kind of story, I mean.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Kromm

[Winston Wolfe]

 

The trope now is swiping access to webcams.  In theory they can be infected with malware that allows them to be turned on and off remotely, the data streamed to whoever, and even the little light can be turned off (although for dramatic reasons on a TV show they might show the light going on to illustrate the person is being spied on).

Thanks for that.  Love the Mr. T avatar by the way. :o)  You just reminded me, I just purchased an all-in-one pc with the webcam built in.  Really need to put some black tape across the camera lens.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Winston Wolfe

[ChocButterfly]

I've never understood why people leave their laptops open with the webcam in sight of everything. Even before I knew that this kind of hacking was possible, I've always made sure my laptop is close when I'm not using it. I've always felt that webcam is spying on me, plus closing the laptop keeps it cleaner. I do the same with the cel phone cameras, they're always facing down when I leave my phone on any table. Well, not that their cam could record anything anyway, since my phone has a cover that closes.

[TV Diva Queen]

Let me clear up something I saw upthread about Peter not being able to get the steps of the capital building.  In Springfield, we have the real, current, working state capital building and then we have the Old State Capital Building, which is, if you listen closely is what they were referring to. The Old one is currently a museum - and if I'm not mistaken, its run by the Feds because of good ole Abe.  So the breakdancers could have actually rented the steps and no, the Governor couldn't have them.  The more I think of it, the more I'm sure that it is run by the Feds, because Illinois has a silly rule that you can't campaign on state property, but we all know that both the State of Illinois ignores this, just as TGW does too.  

[HawaiiTVGuy]

So the motivation of the NSA geeks to want to listen in on Alicia is because...they like their own personal telenova type drama to listen to? Because they definitely don't seem to have any rational belief that they are going to get any useful intel by tracking Alicia, and they don't really seem to be the "invasion of privacy and breaking various laws is necessary for the protection of the country" types.

[apgold]

Ugh, not the NSA guys again.  Even with Damian Young (hello Marky Mark and Stu the Busdriver) and Michael Urie can't make that plot interesting.  And what's with the goat videos?  What are the Kings smoking?

 

LAL is a shadow of LG once was.  A bunch of buffoons running a law firm.  Diane is self-deluded, Cary is treading water, Howard is the worst stereotype (her people and my people suffered!) and David is just David.

 

What saves this show for me is that are still able to attract the best guest stars and NY theater talent (Nikki M. James, who played the applicant won a Tony for "Book of Mormon" - she is 34 but could pass for 26).  Nice to see Anna Wood as the COTW and Christine Lahti as the opposing lawyer. 

 

That said, I enjoyed the scene with Alicia under the blanket calling their version of "Snowden" and that Cary was willing to help her out.  Eli is in a pickle whether to screw Peter once and for all.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

The summer intern story-line seems really badly thought-out. They should have fleshed out the non-race/gender differences between Monica and the other three candidates more, not only that they went to different schools. Maybe have Monica (who is 26 so probably did not go through the traditional high-school, straight to college for four years, straight to law school track) have some sort of legal work experience over the other candidates that gives Diane something besides "diversity" to hold on to as a reason that Monica is more desirable. Or even say she was the top of her class at Loyola versus middling of their classes for the other guys. The funny thing was that out of the three partners, the one who seemed to be making the hiring decision based on race was Diane because she wanted "diversity". David Lee was just a plain school snob, and Cary wanted the other candidates because they had a certain background/interests that he felt would help in getting technology clients.

[Kromm]

So the motivation of the NSA geeks to want to listen in on Alicia is because...they like their own personal telenova type drama to listen to? Because they definitely don't seem to have any rational belief that they are going to get any useful intel by tracking Alicia, and they don't really seem to be the "invasion of privacy and breaking various laws is necessary for the protection of the country" types.

The show isn't pretending they think they're getting anything real or actionable. They're voyeurs, straight up, with official sanction, the way it was played. No ,mystery here IMO.

That I think most viewers probably think they WILL get something actionable (and this will bite St. Alicia on the ass) is completely separate from what these characters actually believe/are motivated by.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Eli's Evil Plan Risks Entirely Predictable Collateral Damage On The Good Wife
Maybe he should talk to one of the summer intern applicants Lockhart Agos Lee didn't hire. She's got some good ideas for how to be bad.

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm surprised that Monica didn't say, "You know, not everyone who lives in Baltimore is from The Wire, or Homicide, Life on the Streets."  Not a good move for her to insult Diane by saying that she slept her way up the ladder, but I did like that she stood her ground.

The whole thing about asking if she was from a rough neighborhood, was totally Cary's way of saying "you are from Baltimore, I have seen every episode of The Wire, so your life was exactly like that right?" which even subtly was a terrible question.

 

I CACKLED when the NSA dorks showed up. I didn't realize how much I missed them.

Also, if Peter and Alicia DON'T get called out and mocked for standing in front of a badly-painted backdrop in an 80 degree school gym, then this show does not understand how real life works.

I always figured they don't for one thing Peter, a guy who did time (which means there is a mugshot out there) was actually elected State's Attorney and Governor and is a contender for president of the US. All kind of little stupid scandals have hurt his various campaigns, but it has been years since he has ever had to defend the fact that he went to jail. Not only that but since he is the sitting governor of a major state, how has no one at the NSA considered that if he finds out about the wiretapping of his wife, he is going to lose his shit and being a governor can actually do something about it. I mean I would have to think that if the governor of the 5th largest state in the US calls the President (who is in the same party) he gets a call back.

 

Also if that guy in iceland called Alicia on a burner phone that he sent her, how exactly did that give the NSA the ability to tap the rest of Alicia's phone lines? For that matter if that guy was using burners, how did the NSA figure out he was the one doing the calling?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Kel Varnsen

[Calvada]

I'm trying to come up with some reason to continue watching this tripe.  What has happened to this show?  The presidential politics are so ludicrous it can't be believed.  I can't imagine the response from the talking heads, not to mention the late night comedians, as Peter and Alicia mock themselves up as the Obamas, putting on wool overcoats and scarves inside.  Eli doesn't need to do squat to put a mark on the campaign/governor - Ruth is doing a fine job of accomplishing that herself.  You can't tell me that no eagle eyed reporter hasn't noticed that Alicia and Peter's marriage is a total sham?  No one mentions that they apparently have cut their son out of their lives?  And did Diane have some major head injury?  It's the only thing that can explain how she's lost so much intelligence.  The Diane of the first few seasons was never this stupid.  And I can't even believe what they've done to Cary.  I don't like any of these characters anymore.  The only thing I found semi-interesting in this episode was Eli finding his mole perched in his closet of an office and that's only because it reminded me of Endora from Bewitched! 

[KaveDweller]

Also if that guy in iceland called Alicia on a burner phone that he sent her, how exactly did that give the NSA the ability to tap the rest of Alicia's phone lines? For that matter if that guy was using burners, how did the NSA figure out he was the one doing the calling?

 

They said they were tracking the guy in iceland so maybe they have some way of listening to his calls even if he's using burners? Maybe he used the same burner for something else?

 

They were surprised to hear Alicia, which suggests they didn't hear that call. So.....I don't know.

[pennben]

Okay, I'm probably in a cranky mood tonight, but I saw the bit with bringing back the NSA guys as a jab at the audience of this show.  They (we) have nothing better to do than to listen in (watch) Alicia's life, what morons....indeed, they (we) are even easily entertained by screaming goats.

 

Also, I think with the whole Lockhart/Agos plotline was to compare/contrast to Alicia's fantastic new life out on her own.  Now we are being shown Diane/Cary being morons caught up in all the politics/issues of a big firm (what a slap in the face to the characters, the actors and the audience for all of these years), but our fearless Alicia is out on her own, actually in a courtroom, not participating in all that she left behind.  She's WINNING!

 

There's a part of me that fears that when Eli perked up after looking at Alicia, he was seeing her in a new light and that she should be the one to run for President...lord, help us all.

 

Finally, the actress playing Monica reminded me of Rashida Jones...so much so that I followed above links to the actress to see whether they were related.

 

ETA:  And yet, despite it all, this season is better than last season.

Edited November 11, 2015 by pennben

[ChocButterfly]

Not only that but since he is the sitting governor of a major state, how has no one at the NSA considered that if he finds out about the wiretapping of his wife, he is going to lose his shit and being a governor can actually do something about it. I mean I would have to think that if the governor of the 5th largest state in the US calls the President (who is in the same party) he gets a call back.

 

Exactly! Not to mention that it kind of already happened that season ago when Alicia found out she was being spied on, Peter called somebody and threatened to make it stop. You'd think that the Nerds' boss would have told them to stay the hell away from the governor's wife. But nope, by all means, spy on her for no reason whatsoever until you actually find a legitimately reason to spy on her.

 

And those nerdy guys really, really piss me off. I know the show is trying to convey how inmature and nerdy they are with the goat thing, but stop it already, we get it! Plus, there's no way they'd be allowed to make that kind of noise in the office. I know it's a more relaxed working environment, but Google it ain't. Ther's no way they'd be SCREAMING! and belching in the middle of the office. No one was actually SCREAMING! but them.

[needschocolate]

Also, I think with the whole Lockhart/Agos plotline was to compare/contrast to Alicia's fantastic new life out on her own.  Now we are being shown Diane/Cary being morons caught up in all the politics/issues of a big firm (what a slap in the face to the characters, the actors and the audience for all of these years), but our fearless Alicia is out on her own, actually in a courtroom, not participating in all that she left behind.  She's WINNING!

 

I thought the reason for the LAL plot line was so that the applicant can sue LAL and Alicia will represent her, of course.  I was kind of surprised that the end of the episode wasn't the applicant standing at Alicia's door.  I suppose they can always have it happen in a future episode.

[Kromm]

I thought the reason for the LAL plot line was so that the applicant can sue LAL and Alicia will represent her, of course.  I was kind of surprised that the end of the episode wasn't the applicant standing at Alicia's door.  I suppose they can always have it happen in a future episode.

It came off SO strongly like that was the intention, it made me wonder by the end if it hadn't been written that way, then changed (and the stub of the plot left intact).

[Dowel Jones]

Interesting sidebar:  The ABA does not rank law schools, nor do they support the outside ranking of schools, usually by US News and World Report.  Back in 2012, the President of Loyola University School of Law (Los Angeles) wrote an op-ed piece in the Huffington Post attacking the ranking systems because they don't include "diversity" in their methodology of school rankings, which Loyola puts a strong emphasis on.  I wonder if the Kings specifically wrote this in, or if it was coincidence.  All this came from the Wiki article on law school rankings (I'm not that smart).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had to laugh when they showed Alicia buying a burner phone because I recently had to do the same for work (not for nefarious purposes though and nothing nearly as exciting as calling faux Snowden in Iceland while under a blanket!).

 

Looks like the Office Manager might have a thing for him, though.

Nora isn't the office manager. She used to be Eli's assistant but when Peter hired Ruth, she took Nora away from Eli.

 

 

Was she an intern?  I was assuming she was a prospective associate.  I mean why else would they be talking about where she got her law degree?

The firm was interviewing for new associates. When Diane brought Monica back for what Monica thought was a second interview, Diane said, "Associate hiring is extremely competitive."

 

 

 

Maybe have Monica (who is 26 so probably did not go through the traditional high-school, straight to college for four years, straight to law school track) have some sort of legal work experience over the other candidates that gives Diane something besides "diversity" to hold on to as a reason that Monica is more desirable.

Being 26 when you graduate from law school is not unusual or indicative of extraordinary circumstances. If you graduate from high school at 18 and take four years for college, you are 22 (although these days it's not unusual to take five years for undergrad). Law school in the United States takes three years which would make you 25 when you graduate. If her birthday was after the cut off for kindergarten or she took a year off between undergrad and law school, that would easily put her at 26 without any sort of non-traditional situations.

 

I was very distracted by Diane's hideous plastic chain necklace. I'm usually crazy envious of her impeccable wardrobe, but that looked like something you would give an infant to chew on.

Those chain link necklaces became very trendy a few years ago but the links were made out of fabric, not plastic. I hated them because they were way too big and chunky for my taste.

 

 

 

I was thinking that they enjoyed listening to her life, like watching a TV show.

They definitely used to treat Alicia like their own personal form of entertainment. One of the reasons they wanted to start listening again in this episode is that they want to know what's been going on with her since they had to stop listening.

Edited November 12, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Inquisitionist]

The concerns about Monica's "second tier" law school and her LSATs were ridiculous.  That information was known before they invited her to interview.  They should have been discussing what they learned about Monica through the interviews -- but of course they learned nothing, because they were going through the motions rather than actually getting to know her. 

[nara]

The concerns about Monica's "second tier" law school and her LSATs were ridiculous.  That information was known before they invited her to interview.  They should have been discussing what they learned about Monica through the interviews -- but of course they learned nothing, because they were going through the motions rather than actually getting to know her.

My impression was that Diane was okay with her law school and had allowed her to get through the resume review process to interviews. The others were likely not involved until the interview stage. But i've taken to doing other stuff while watching the show, so I might have invented that part.

[Inquisitionist]

The others were likely not involved until the interview stage.

 

Because, apparently, the leading named partner of this prestigious law firm does all the grunt work herself.

[izabella]

I never understood the point of the NSA guys and I still don't.  Wasn't that a story line that amounted to nothing?  Why are they bringing it back? 

 

The stupidity of what is going on with LAL is vomit-inducing.  I can't believe they are wasting Diane and Cary like this, and have elevated Howard to a main character.  Why, show, why?

 

I hate everything about the campaign, Eli/Ruth, and everything else on this show.  And I'm mad that they have turned an interesting show into crap.  Make it stop!

[Kel Varnsen]

I hate everything about the campaign, Eli/Ruth, and everything else on this show.  And I'm mad that they have turned an interesting show into crap.  Make it stop! 

The more I think about it, and thinking about my earlier post, how is it that being tied to vote tampering is going to kill Peter's campaign for president, but his history of doing time in jail for not only banging hookers but overall corruption is no big deal to anyone? I think if you voted for Peter in the past, and then find out that he was corrupt and tampered with elections,  you shouldn't really be surprised. 

[nara]

Because, apparently, the leading named partner of this prestigious law firm does all the grunt work herself.

I didn't say she personally reviewed every resume that came in. However, for a firm that size, it would absolutely make sense for her to provide guidance (like the need for diversity or a preference for certain past experience) to a more junior lawyer or HR person, who would review the resumes and make recommendations for who should go to the interview round. Diane would the bless or challenge those choices and the interviews would begin. It's not a company with hundreds of employees, so a senior partner like Diane might well take a special interest in the hiring process.

[Inquisitionist]

My comment stands, nara.  If you are concerned about the school an applicant attended or the LSAT scores that got him/her into that school, you use the interview process to look for information that either confirms or overturns your concerns.  You ask substantive questions about coursework and related experience. You probe the person's ability to think and their character.  The Kings should know this, and writing their seemingly intelligent and savvy characters this way suggests they think their audience is made up of nitwits.  Oh, well, perhaps I *am* a nitwit for continuing to expect more from this show than its creators seem capable of delivering...

[marny]

To clarify, they were hiring for summer associate positions. These are law students who work there during the summer, and if they do good work, typically get job offers for post- graduation. It's a feeder for new associates. And the summer associates usually are VERY well paid. I agree it's weird that they bothered interviewing someone who didn't meet their qualifications on paper. As far as LSAT scores, that would usually not be a part of the qualifications-- it's all about prestige of the school, GPA, and class rank. At least that was my experience. And the summer hiring process does start early, so it makes sense for it not to be close to summertime when this is happening.

What did strike me as super-illogical was how tone deaf they all were when talking to Monica considering we've seen several black attorneys working there. Julius is/was a partner, and wasn't Taye Diggs on this show at some point as an attorney in the NY(?) office? While it certainly isn't a highly diverse environment, you would think they had never met a black attorney before from the way they reacted. Ridiculous.

[Kromm]

The firm was interviewing for new associates. When Diane brought Monica back for what Monica thought was a second interview, Diane said, "Associate hiring is extremely competitive."

Right. It just made no sense that even for a paid internship they'd be that focused on where the person's law degree came from. Generally an intern wouldn't yet HAVE a law degree.  They'd be in a school who's rep the firm might not favor, sure, but I did recall they were specifically talking in a past tense about where she'd gone to law school.

To clarify, they were hiring for summer associate positions. These are law students who work there during the summer, and if they do good work, typically get job offers for post- graduation. It's a feeder for new associates. 

Okay, that makes a bit more sense than "intern".  The way they spoke about the law school in the past tense still didn't totally make sense, but it still makes far more sense than a traditional internship.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Kromm