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S03.E06: This Red Lady From Caribee


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I liked:

  • Everything Abbie did/said 
  • Everything Jenny and Joe did
  • That the awfully fake looking rock was a fake rock as opposed to the worst prop on TV since the 80s' Doctor Who
  • The monster and them in Pandora's lair (I was actually screaming no when )
  • The second date
  • Grace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Pandora, as always, is everything. I love her so much, so much.
  • Corbin backstory!

 

Things I tolerated but sighed heavily at:

  • Betsy...Go get fucking dressed. And why the hell was she standing like she was getting ready to run and having a stomach ache at the same time. Kudos to the writer for writing actually period accurate speech
  • The first date 
  • That store guy with that terrible accent (so glad that was brought up, because I don't know Caribbean accents but that shit was not something even remotely close to being from anywhere on the African continent). Even if I couldn't judge the quality of the accent, the way he was moving his mouth was so obviously him trying to form foreign sounds. 

 

The six are: Secrets. Chaos. Loneliness. Death. Lost Innocence* (thanks bethy!) (? This one was really hard to hear, I couldn't quite understand her it sounded like she said Innocence or Innocence Lost), and Fear.

Thoughts:

Secrets - Whispers in the Dark, the Wraith (or dementor thingy) because it dug out secrets

Chaos - Première, the yaoguai, it is attracted to chaotic environments where there is a lot of hostility

Loneliness - Jack the ripper, because it prayed on the loneliness of the vessel and exposed Abbie's?

Death - Zombie Howe

Lost Innocence - Sister Mills, the tooth fairy targeting children?

 

Ugh.  Grace came to the tent "I made this potion.." and Boobsy was like "Well, aren't you the cutest thing -- I could have made that, but I have to destroy a hive with a single pistol."

 

It would have worked much better if Grace made and delivered the potion, and destroyed the hive, and Titsy wasn't in the scene at all.

Dude, that would make sense, have better acting with a character we actually like and would broaden the perspective of the show in the flashback so...of course it's not going to happen! Are you crazy? That would be the show trying to do genre stuff right.

 

They like each other in a slightly awkward middle school kind of way

That was the entirety of my problem with it. I don't want it to feel like a waste of space while it's happening! And when they acted like real people for the walk, I thought it was lovely and cute. What's the point of having him be in a relationship with a history nerd if they don't have that old soul connection? Instead, it sometimes feels like, while she likes history, she just pretended to be into Revolutionary stuff because he's pretty. Although I will give it to the actress, that big gulp of wine at Benihana? Hilarious. Anyway, their second date was much better and I respected her for not counting that first atrocity as a date. I want more of that in small doses instead of screenshots of her being stalker-y with he and Abbie gossiping about it. That way I care about one aspect of Crane's life that is not being a witness. That being said, I do hope they keep it on 1.5 min max per episode level. I care but not that much.

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Honestly, they better not go "there" with Jenny and Joe either; where Zoe and  Crane have no chemistry, Joe and Jenny do: sibling chemistry.

 

 This is obviously a YMMV situation, because I think they're hot together. Although they both had Corbin for a mentor, they didn't grow up together -- it's more like Harry Potter and Hermoine both being mentored by Dumbledore.

 

Dude, that would make sense, have better acting with a character we actually like and would broaden the perspective of the show in the flashback so...of course it's not going to happen! Are you crazy? That would be the show trying to do genre stuff right.

Geez, you're right -- what was I thinking?

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Wasn't Ichabod a 'consultant' with the sheriff's department for a time? If so, he'd be paid for that. We know he traveled to his family home, maybe he sold some stuff for funds. He obviously didn't bring a lot back with him. Abbie doesn't talk about having to support him, unless I'm missing dialog. Hawley provided him with a passport so he has ID to be employed now. Maybe if he gets that place declared an historical site, there's a stipend that comes with it.

 

 

You mean the paid consultant position that Reyes eventually gave Ichabod during season two since he was hanging around the SHPD before that time without earning anything or when Irving was in charge during season one because I don’t remember Ichabod being paid officially or unofficially for his contributions during season one. Even with that paid consultant position for his “expertise” on special cases, it would still amount to pocket change since he wasn’t making enough to live completely free from needing Abbie’s financial help. He needed that cabin to shack up in with his wife that he wouldn’t have had access to for free if he didn’t have a personal connection to Abbie. Once he learned to drive the show wrote a scene where it was acknowledged that he started driving himself around in her car as a means of transportation, so that was another example of him depending on her financially because he didn’t need to buy/rent a car to have access to one. Now that Abbie is with the FBI, his paid consultant stint with the SHPD is over since they didn’t keep him around & basically put up with him as a tag-a-long that came with Abbie, that they no longer chose to indulge now that she has moved on.

 

When Abbie mentioned a couple of times this season to Ichabod about needing to drop him off at the Archives so that he could do research on their case of the week because she needed to head over to her job, it’s probably because that is his only job which is nonpaying while she has more than one job with one of them being a paid position that requires that she physically checks in or contacts them every day. Hawley got him a fake ID but the show hasn’t mentioned anything about Ichabod being gainfully employed now so he isn’t bringing in regular income & getting the Archives building or whatever place it was he mentioned turned into a historical site is still a dream of his that is not currently paying him an income. Also, Abbie managed to survive living without a roommate during the first two seasons, so I’m going to go with the biggest reason why Ichabod is living with her this season is because he once again needs a place to live for free now that the cabin is no longer available to him (the show has moved to a new shooting location).  The writers even included a scene in an earlier episode this season where they showed Ichabod doing chores at Abbie’s home where he mentions to her that he was doing it as a small way of trying to pay her back for all she had done for him. I remember reading somewhere else that someone asked one of the producers/writers (I think it was Leigh Dana Jackson) if Ichabod was going to finally get a real job this season & his response was something along the lines of isn’t being a witness his job, so if that is how the producers/writers look at his financial situation, then he most likely isn’t contributing a significant amount of income to the household that he shares with Abbie.

 

Until Abbie starts bitching about him being a deadbeat and needing to earn his keep, I'm gonna assume he's got some scratch from somewhere.

 

 

Abbie doesn’t have to verbally bitch about having a problem with being Ichabod’s primary source of financial support for a viewer to infer (based on what has happened onscreen for more than two season) that she is his primary source of financial support since the show hasn’t stated onscreen before that he gained money through an inheritance that he found out about before or after his visit to Europe or by selling some valuable items that he owns that the audience never sees him with or hears him talk about, etc. Those are usually things viewers have suggested as a way to come up with scenarios (but the show has never bothered to explain) regarding how a man who woke up from a 250 year old deep sleep & doesn’t have decades of history/roots/family/friendships in the present day, could settle into modern society in a town in New York of all places (even though not as expensive as living in NYC) despite not having a 9 to 5 job/regular income without needing to depend financially on his modern day partner who does have a 9 to 5 job/regular income that she needs to financially survive in that same town where she does have modern day roots in while still performing her witness duties.

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This is obviously a YMMV situation, because I think they're hot together. Although they both had Corbin for a mentor, they didn't grow up together -- it's more like Harry Potter and Hermoine both being mentored by Dumbledore.

I think you meant Ron Weezly, not Harry Potter.  I know a lot of people thought Harry and Hermione should have hooked up, but both were outsiders, and the Weezly's were a large, loving family and wizard blue bloods.  Anyway, I agree with your point about Joe and Jenny, and to my point about Harry Potter, it would make sense if Joe/Jenny hooked up because of the whole family/fighting evil ties.  Jenny wants to be tied to Corbin and Joe wants to be tied to the Mills.

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Loved how the unflappable Pandora simply walked away!  She doesn’t have time for Ichabod’s rants.   The woman has a tree, box, wigs, shoes and Halloween candy to steal as she quietly unfolds her plan.  Evil with style and panache!

 

Shannyn Sossaman continues to own the role of Pandora. Since the show got rid of Moloch, I want to know if Pandora is acting on behalf of someone else that is a step above her but that person isn’t the ultimate big bad, if she answers directly to the big bad or if there even is a big bad for this tribulation.  Also, thank you to Shernold Edwards (the writer of this episode) for including that bitch please line for Pandora towards Crane in which she tells him that she’d like to give him a history lesson after he tried to “educate” her like he tries to do with everyone else.

 

 

I do love how she treated Ab & Ich in this episode.  'Unflappable' is a great descriptor.  She came to do what she needed to do (for now).  And she's got her tree-bling, her tree-weave and her lovely gown.  She is so matter of fact when she talked to Ichabod.  I enjoy this type of villain.  She isn't wasteful.  She doesn't just kill people wantonly just because. She has her eyes on a specific prize.  She is all about fomenting fear.  Even stealing the candy from the little girl wasn't just evil for evil's sake, it engendered fear and fed more of her cause.   And she has a really good presence.  I really enjoyed her confrontation with the Witnesses in her lair, because she was unhurried and in control. And yes, her 'Go have a seat, son' smack-down of Ichabod was great.  You are not the only historical traveller here.

 

I do like the fact the witnesses kind of thought they were winning all this time when killing the monsters of the week when in fact they were fueling Pandora's evil end game whatever that may be.

 

Yeah, I mean in the grand scheme of things they couldn't 'win'.  Pandora already won just by unleashing the things in her box.  She didn't want to destroy the town or kill anyone, she just needed to collect her fear.  So she did that.  Ich & Abbie was the clean up crew.  Pandora thanking them for cleaning up after her fits very well within her 'eyes on the prize' personality.  She doesn't need all her creatures to  be running amok in Sleepy Hollow after she's gotten what she needed from them.  Instead of her having to call them back or collect them, Abbie & Ich did that for her.  I get the impression she would have done so because like I said above, she isn't wasteful.  I mean, she put the Horseman in the box because his brand of terror isn't what she needs at this time.

 

So yeah, I am digging on Pandy. 

 

 

Blown away by the jealousy that apparently Daniel has for Abbie. He was scared of Abbie - who he obviously thinks is the better agent - one-upping him, taking over, etc. Very interesting. However, it's clear that he loves/loved her, but she's so closed to relationships that it would never go anywhere. He just talking about the shack by the beach and them spending time there together sounded intriguing. Wish we could see flashbacks for that (probably never, since it'd be R-rated - hee). Interesting that Abbie is very vary about long-term commitments, which fits her personality. She's afraid of being alone, but is unwilling to take that leap to NOT be alone. I'm actually glad that Daniel doesn't know the Supernatural stuff going on, that he forgot.

 

On re-watch I paid more attention to the Danny Abbie stuff and thought these scenes brought their earlier interactions in sharp focus.  Yeah, I also got the impression he was a little jealous of her abilities while at the same time being impressed by her.  So his coming to Sleepy Hollow to be her boss was twofold, maybe?  A way to show her he got a promotion before her so in a small way to show he is better but also a way to be back in her orbit, to be around her?   Also the story about the Outerbanks also has me intrigued and could mean a lot of things.  Did they have a close relationship?  Was it a one time thing that meant more to him than her?  I fanwank it is the latter since he only mentions the shack.  I think they were friends, colleagues and attracted to each other.  Something happened maybe during a training exercise, maybe during a case that had them holed together in a shack and they got it on.  Danny took it as a beginning of something but to Abbie it was ... something a lot less.  Hopefully we'll get more clues.

 

And yeah, I like that he is not in the know re: the supernatural stuff and it stays that way.

 

I think if you are an Ichabbie shipper then that is the biggest arrow your quiver right now.  In S1 Abbie & Ichabod talk about not being able to have relationships because of what they know and who they are.  So how honest can you be in a relationship with a muggle?  (Harry Potter reference).  Unless the writers want to bring Daniel and Zoe into the team WTF fold, then they will always be outsiders to what Abbie & Ichabod have to deal with.  And you can't have an honest relationship with someone if you have to hide such a huge part of yourself or can't explain why you are always running off with this other person.

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I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, especially Abbie's scenes with Reynolds.  I can now understand the attraction, and I also understand why Abbie walked away.  It can be summed up in two lines from Reynolds - I would own the map, and you left, but I'm still there.  You get his drive, his passion, and his refusal to move on.  In his paranoid state, you get his anger, envy, jealousy and suspicion of both Abbie and Crane.  I'm sure Crane calling Abbie Lieutenant Agent didn't help because it let Reynolds know that Ichabod and Abbie have history that predates him, which she never mentioned.  He could become a major headache for Abbie and Crane at the worst possible time - way to raise the stakes show.  Add in Jenny possessing some serious power that may belong or be coveted by  someone more powerful than Pandora, and everything should blow up in SH quite nicely just in time for sweeps.  All we need is for Zoe to go all creepazoid when Crane wants to slow their romance down or return to platonic, and Papa Mills to show up.

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And then we come to Boobsy Ross...sigh. All I can really say is, thanks for only shoving her into one scene. Still get the feeling there were other scenes filmed, but someone is cutting them. To whomever is making that decision, I say thank you. And please just do away with her altogether. She lifts right out!

 

 

"She lifts right out" would be a perfect thread title for Betsy, except then we'd have a thread dedicated to a pointless character of no consequence. One of my biggest problems with her is one I had with Katrina, her mere presence necessitates tearing Ichabod down to make her matter.  In the guise of writing background for Ichabod,  they've created a character who takes story that should have been written for him and undermines him as a proactive, admirable person of action and principle. They've excised Captain Crane out of his own narrative and replaced him with a colonial era taxi driver who chatted a lot with an oddly dressed passenger.  They started the season telling us she was his partner, but he was clearly her sidekick/ getaway driver. The only way this is an improvement over the worthless witch is she's not eating the show and Abbie, at least continues to be a character in her own right, as opposed to last season when they often tried to reduce her to the sidekick's sidekick.

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I think you meant Ron Weezly, not Harry Potter.  I

 

 

Probably.  I'm not into the Potter thing enough to know who ended up with whom.  (Heresy, I know.)

 

Unless the writers want to bring Daniel and Zoe into the team WTF fold, then they will always be outsiders to what Abbie & Ichabod have to deal with.

 

They have to be careful with that, especially with Zoe.  If too much weird stuff goes on around him, it will be hard for him to be Scully-ized for too long (How long did it take Abbie to jump to the supernatural side of things?).  Zoe is a bit easier since they can write her being "offstage" while the weirdness happens.  

Sgt Wu was left out of the fold for too long on Grimm.  I hope Sleepy Hollow doesn't make the same mistake and Danny is either in the group or written out by the end of Season 4 (yes, I'm hoping...)

 

ETA:

 

(1) her mere presence necessitates tearing Ichabod down to make her matter. 

 

(2) They've excised Captain Crane out of his own narrative and replaced him with a colonial era taxi driver who chatted a lot with an oddly dressed passenger.  

 

(3) The only way this is an improvement over the worthless witch is she's not eating the show and Abbie, at least continues to be a character in her own right, as opposed to last season when they often tried to reduce her to the sidekick's sidekick.

(1) And in this episode, they had to tear down Grace to fit Titsy** in.  That's even more egregious to me.

 

(2) Burns and Schreiber reference?

 

(3) Boobsy** also actually does stuff, another improvement over the StruggleWitch.

 

** I can't decide whether I like Titsy or Boobsy better.Kudos to whoever came up with those nicknames.

Edited by jhlipton
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Also the story about the Outerbanks also has me intrigued and could mean a lot of things.  Did they have a close relationship?  Was it a one time thing that meant more to him than her?  I fanwank it is the latter since he only mentions the shack.

 

Oh see, when he talked about it, I was under the impression that they were there for at least a couple of months at least (since it was 9 months since Crane left). The way he talked about the fan, and reminisced, I thought it was a lot longer than one night. They "shacked" (ha!) up for a bit, have a love affair, helped each other through Quantico training, and then she left. Daniel is clearly in love with her, but jealous, and Abbie may be in love, but won't allow herself to ever fully give her heart over to someone else.

 

Also, this just made me think about how it must look to Daniel, Crane living with Abbie now. She lived with Reynolds for a while, now is with another guy. No wonder Daniel thought they were a couple. No wonder he's jealous.

 

And you can't have an honest relationship with someone if you have to hide such a huge part of yourself or can't explain why you are always running off with this other person.

 

No you can't. I expect Zoe to find out the truth about Crane and bail - basically because she'll think he's literally insane or something for thinking he's from the 18th century. Both Daniel, Zoe (and BR) are a means to an end....whatever that "end", ends up being.

 

Secrets - Whispers in the Dark, the Wraith (or dementor thingy) because it dug out secrets

Chaos - Première, the yaoguai, it is attracted to chaotic environments where there is a lot of hostility

Loneliness - Jack the ripper, because it prayed on the loneliness of the vessel and exposed Abbie's?

Death - Zombie Howe

Lost Innocence - Sister Mills, the tooth fairy targeting children?

 

Thanks for this, fantique! My PVR died again, so I lost my tapings of the first four episodes so couldn't go back to rewatch them. This is what I wanted to connect, so thank you!!

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Assuming Abbie is fully supporting him with money out of her own pocket is as much fanwank as how he might be earning his own income. We've seen nothing to support either side of things. Abbie dropping off groceries at Corbin's cabin doesn't count, all that inescapably proves is she went to the grocery store and he didn't. Also, he was bunking for free (probably) at a place Abbie had access, to , if not ownership of. Either way, it's fun to snark about his lack of paid work or speculate on whatever legitimate employment or odd jobs in the underground economy might be keeping him in pin money. I tend to think she was paying most or all of the bills in the first two seasons but after the red-headed millstone finally provided great joy by diebitchdying, part of his walkabout involved paid work. After all, he was no longer needed to linger at her side lest she need a comfy throw pulled over her slumbering form.

Anyway, it doesn't look like Ichabod is a lavish spender on dates.

I agree. My initial fanwank is that the money came from a trust for Corbins Cabin. I like the idea that Crane sold some of his family heirlooms. It's not really something that bothers me either way.

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** I can't decide whether I like Titsy or Boobsy better.Kudos to whoever came up with those nicknames.

 

I personally like Busty.

 

Oh see, when he talked about it, I was under the impression that they were there for at least a couple of months at least (since it was 9 months since Crane left). The way he talked about the fan, and reminisced, I thought it was a lot longer than one night. They "shacked" (ha!) up for a bit, have a love affair, helped each other through Quantico training, and then she left. Daniel is clearly in love with her, but jealous, and Abbie may be in love, but won't allow herself to ever fully give her heart over to someone else.

 

Also, this just made me think about how it must look to Daniel, Crane living with Abbie now. She lived with Reynolds for a while, now is with another guy. No wonder Daniel thought they were a couple. No wonder he's jealous.

 

No you can't. I expect Zoe to find out the truth about Crane and bail - basically because she'll think he's literally insane or something for thinking he's from the 18th century. Both Daniel, Zoe (and BR) are a means to an end....whatever that "end", ends up being.

 

Yeah I didn't necessarily see Abbie & Danny as a one nighter, but just confined to however long they were in that shack as opposed to being a long-time ongoing relationship.  So could've been weeks? a month or two?  And once they were outta there it was over for Abbie.  And yeah the optics of Abbie & Ichabod working nd living together with an obvious past seems like as a pile on for Danny.  She couldn't commit anything to him because she had this other unsatisfactorily defined  relationship already in play.

 

And I would love it if they broke up Zoe and Ichabod over something so mundane as her finally thinking he's too weird for her or that his habit of being pedantic begins to grate or something like that.  Or even something a little darker like she gets killed because of something to do with their mission, kinda like Caroline did and Ichabod finally realizes he can't have a relationship with a 'normal' person.  Yeah, I have no problem callously killing off Zoe.

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I would LOVE it if Zoe were the one to break it off because Crane is too weird/pedantic. I'd rather they not kill her off just because of the Ichabod-angst. A bruised heart or ego might be good for our Ichabod, but I don't think I'm up for more "tragic" love story plots for him.

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 (1) And in this episode, they had to tear down Grace to fit Titsy** in.  That's even more egregious to me.

 

Oh, god, that was so painful. Grace Dixon was a healer and a midwife, back when that's who provided most of the outside healthcare people got, and they actually sent for her to take care of the commander of their armies when all else failed (despite her being not-white, and George Washington having some definitely old school attitudes about that). I don't care if the redoubtable Ms. Ross invented colonial spandex and did parkour on weekends in a wonderbra, there was no reason for her to be suesplaining home remedies to Grace. 

Edited by Julia
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Oh, god, that was so painful. Grace Dixon was a healer and a midwife, back when that's who provided most of the outside healthcare people got, and they actually sent for her to take care of the commander of their armies when all else failed (despite her being not-white, and George Washington having some definitely old school attitudes about that). I don't care if the redoubtable Ms. Ross invented colonial spandex and did parkour on weekends in a wonderbra, there was no reason for her to be suesplaining home remedies to Grace.

 

It felt shoehorned in, especially since Grace should be an expert on the subject without Betsy's lecture.

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It felt shoehorned in, especially since Grace should be an expert on the subject without Betsy's lecture.

 

Well, that was weird, because I thought Grace was eye rolling her there (she said something about yes, I was already aware of that). Which is the first time I can remember that one of their historical characters has shown any inkling that their awesome colonial powergrrls with king fu cleavage were maybe less than completely ground-breakingly awesome. 

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Well, that was weird, because I thought Grace was eye rolling her there (she said something about yes, I was already aware of that). Which is the first time I can remember that one of their historical characters has shown any inkling that their awesome colonial powergrrls with king fu cleavage were maybe less than completely ground-breakingly awesome. 

 

It felt very awkward and condescending.

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I am probably imagining it, but since her boobs offend me more and more each episode, I am making up this headcanon that with every episode that they realise she doesn't work, they push her boobs further up. I want to correlate on a chart how boobsy she gets with each episode in relation to how desperate they are to have her liked... I expect a perfect +1 and also a negative correlation with screentime and relevance. If all they wanted was a walking buxom lady, they should have hired a model (not like the acting could be that much worse) with a D cup or more. Because there really isn't much they can do to have her boobs look bigger, except padding.

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I would LOVE it if Zoe were the one to break it off because Crane is too weird/pedantic.

 

"So much this", as the kids say.

 

[T]here was no reason for her to be suesplaining home remedies to Grace. 

 

And this.

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I would LOVE it if Zoe were the one to break it off because Crane is too weird/pedantic. I'd rather they not kill her off just because of the Ichabod-angst. A bruised heart or ego might be good for our Ichabod, but I don't think I'm up for more "tragic" love story plots for him.

Or maybe they'll go the "I'm breaking up with you, because you are obviously in love with Abbie" route.

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Or maybe they'll go the "I'm breaking up with you, because you are obviously in love with Abbie" route.

I wouldn't mind either of these, but I don't think it will be that easy. Something seems off with Zoe. She's always around (her at the bowling alley dressed as sexy Betsy was too convenient),and she's too accepting of Crane's weirdness. While I don't have a problem with the townspeople's acceptance of Crane's weirdness - Zoe's dating the guy. I need to understand the attraction. My fear is that she'll turn out to be Betsy in magical disguise, so I'm hoping for evil instead. However both those options are preferable to sloppy writing.

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I wouldn't mind either of these, but I don't think it will be that easy. Something seems off with Zoe. She's always around (her at the bowling alley dressed as sexy Betsy was too convenient),and she's too accepting of Crane's weirdness. While I don't have a problem with the townspeople's acceptance of Crane's weirdness - Zoe's dating the guy. I need to understand the attraction. My fear is that she'll turn out to be Betsy in magical disguise, so I'm hoping for evil instead. However both those options are preferable to sloppy writing.

That's the vibe I got. Crane had no intention of going out with Zoe till Abbie was all, "She's flirting with you. You should go out with her. She's a good one." 

 

 

Or maybe they'll go the "I'm breaking up with you, because you are obviously in love with Abbie" route.

OK, but I hated that on Castle. Random strangers would tell Castle and/or Beckett that they seemed like they were sleeping together or were in a relationship. It was cute when Lanie did it, but no one else. 

 

Anyway, back to SH. I must admit that the shipper in me loved the scene (I think it was in the prior episode) when Abbie said, "She's one of the good ones," and Crane stared at her as she walked away. The writers probably meant that stare to mean that Crane was processing what Abbie said and had started to consider Zoe as a potential mate. In my mind? When Abbie said, "She's one of the good ones," Crane's long stare was screaming, "And so are you, Leftenant. So are you."

Edited by topanga
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