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The World of TVD: Still Need To Be Drunk To Understand This Story

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Some posts were moved here from the latest episode thread, because they were addressing the entire series, versus discussing the specific episode.

Also, please remember to be respectful to your fellow posters. You do not have to agree with each other, but per our grand poo-bah, David T. Cole;

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My golden rule for forums is to pretend you are at someone else's party. Different opinions are welcomed and debate is encouraged but if you can't converse without name calling or flaming then you'll get The Size Nines out the door.

 

Thank you.

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Yep I'm not surprised the discussion was moved and thank you for moving a number of posts so the thread makes sense when others read.

23 hours ago, doram said:

We are specifically discussing the narrative protecting Damon from the consequences of his actions - so yes, it is required that the show acknowledges the action in the first place. It is literally impossible to have consequences from a non-event which is what most of Damon's actions are.

No, it's important for you for the show to acknowledge a something it didn't intend. because otherwise your whole post is dependent on a house of cards. The show has no problem showing murder, betrayal and compulsion etc etc, so if they wanted to explicitly show rape, they would have made it absolutely clear that is what they wanted the viewers to glean from those scenes.  Subjective interpretation of those scenes is just that, but it isn't canon. I  for one prefer to discuss the characters and their motivations from that pov.  It's not about the writers protecting Damon from that narrative because from their POV that narrative is not intentional even if some viewers view that way.

 

On 1/20/2017 at 0:05 AM, doram said:

You're not talking about consequences then. You're talking about punishment which I was very clear to distinguish because I knew this mistake would be made.

But it's semantics really in this show.

On 1/20/2017 at 0:05 AM, doram said:

Stefan losing Elena is a consequence of Stefan turning ripper. It permanently alters that relationship on the show.

In a convoluted way yes it does because Elena fell in love with Damon during that time, however, the point can be made that Elena was well on the road to falling in love with Damon way before Stefan turned ripper such was the inertia of the DE relationship. Stefans Jealousy act and insecurity in s1  is character driven clues that he was very much aware of that fact.

 

On 1/20/2017 at 0:05 AM, doram said:

I see Stefan becoming ripper and losing Elena.  I see Damon killing the Whitmores and .... ::Crickets::

Because what he was doing was not necessarily the issue for Elena. The issue ultimately for her was that he left her, just like her parents did. He then emotionally distanced himself from her when she became a vampire...unintentionally maybe but that is what he did. Damon NEVER left her, he was there for her when she needed it the most. You need to look at all this from Elena's perspective. 

 

On 1/20/2017 at 0:05 AM, doram said:

I see Stefan inardvertedly bringing about Sheila's death when she lifted the tomb spell to save him and it leads to Bonnie turning against vampires and refusing to deactivate the Gilbert device.

True, but she also saw Stefan attack Amber during MMF (and Damon trying to help him) but at the end of the day, by the end of S1 she was still friends as such with Stefan and threatened to take down Damon showing that ultimately Damon was the "vampire" she really disliked and distrusted.

 

On 1/20/2017 at 0:05 AM, doram said:

I see Damon snapping Abby's neck and ... ::crickets::

Well despite the writers giving Bonnie an opportunity to vent a little at Damon, it was a clear case of the witers protecting both brothers since whoever did the actual deed was not the most important factor here was it.? 

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25 minutes ago, miss-vanilla said:

No, it's important for you for the show to acknowledge a something it didn't intend. because otherwise your whole post is dependent on a house of cards. The show has no problem showing murder, betrayal and compulsion etc etc, so if they wanted to explicitly show rape, they would have made it absolutely clear that is what they wanted the viewers to glean from those scenes.  Subjective interpretation of those scenes is just that, but it isn't canon. I  for one prefer to discuss the characters and their motivations from that pov.  It's not about the writers protecting Damon from that narrative because from their POV that narrative is not intentional even if some viewers view that way.

 

Er.... TV is watched, not explained. I don't need Julie Plec to sit down on my couch to tell me what I'm watching nor should I need to follow her tweets to understand what just happened. If it looks like rape, and smells like rape and sounds like rape, then it's rape. Trying to claim that it's anything else because the writers said so is exactly the point @doram was making about Damon being protected by the narrative.

       

25 minutes ago, miss-vanilla said:
On 1/19/2017 at 7:05 PM, doram said:

You're not talking about consequences then. You're talking about punishment which I was very clear to distinguish because I knew this mistake would be made.

But it's semantics really in this show.

No, it's not. 

Consequences: a result or effect of an action or condition. / importance or relevance.

Punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.

Edited by Katsullivan
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Elena still wanted Stefan in Season Three and Season Four.  Stefan was the one who kept pushing Elena away.  Stefan keeps choosing to save Damon, and it keeps costing him.

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Stefan lost Elena because of his own stupid choices, but Damon was right when he told Stefan to stop saving him.  That is one time Stefan should have listened to Damon.  Stefan also should have listened to Damon back in 1864 when Damon said they shouldn't turn, they should let themselves die.

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The writers were doing the sexual tension thing between Damon and Elena forever.  One way or another, they were making sure that they got together, whether it made sense from a narrative point of view or not.  All just my opinion, of course (as is my opinion that I like Stefan and Damon, although "Stefan is a ripper" again is working my last nerve) :)

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I haven't seen any consequences for either Damon and Stefan when it comes to all the people they have murdered.  Elena didn't care about all the people Stefan killed when he was with Klaus, she blamed Klaus, just like Caroline blames Cade for everything Stefan has done.  Elena ended up breaking up with Stefan because he couldn't accept her as a vampire, or some such idiocy, it had nothing to do with Stefan's murdering rampages.  The only person who cares that Stefan killed Enzo is Bonnie.

People cared that Damon killed Tyler for all of two seconds.  Prior to that, not only did most of these people shrug off Damon's murdering with a snarky comment here or there, they also assisted in his plans to kill people.

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She broke up with him because she was sire bond to Damon and he made her his sex slave.

When they slept together, Damon had no idea about the sire bond. And after he found out, he very specifically didn`t have sex with her and rebuffed any and all advances she made. They only started having sex again when a) the sire bond was broken and b) Elena had her humanity back and c) she told him she genuinely loved him. So when did Damon make Elena a sex slave in that scenario? 

Elena getting together with both brothers was actually quite similar. When she met Stefan, she was grieving and depressed and all the people around her couldn`t and didn`t help, no matter how well they meant. Stefan was the only one who brought her some genuine joy there. After she became a vampire, she was once again depressed and in a funk and this time Stefan was sinply part of the group of well-meaning people who couldn`t get her out of it. Now Damon was the only one who brought her some joy. Sucks for Stefan but I don`t believe it was entirely up to Damon that Elena fell out of love with Stefan.  

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On 2/13/2017 at 1:41 PM, doram said:

Not according to Julie Plec:

The sirebond was a narrative decision to make Delena happen.

If that was their intent, then epic fail on the writer's parts.

In Season Three, even though Elena knew about all the people Stefan had murdered while running around with Klaus, she still loved Stefan.  Even after Stefan threatened to drive Elena off the bridge, Elena wanted to get back together with Stefan, but he kept pushing her away.

Elena's explanation to Matt about why she still loved Stefan was somewhat believable as well.  She told Matt Stefan was there for her during a really difficult time in her life, and he made her feel it was okay to be happy and live.  Elena told Damon that she had never fallen out of love with Stefan.  So any feelings Elena had for Damon were not as great as the ones she had for Stefan.

If the way the sire bond works is the person feels love for the vampire before the vampire's blood is used to turn them, and that's why Elena was drawn to Damon when she became a vampire, then once the sire bond was gone, Elena's greater feelings of love for Stefan should have trumped any feelings she had for Damon.

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Right it may seem stupid but when Kai Parker (Malachai) was trapped in the prison world by the Gemini coven, why didn't he siphon the world away. This would either have resulted in him dying, as he tried to do, or he would come back to the real world. The prison world is created by magic and a siphon is able to get rid of previously cast spells, as shown when he removes the anti-magic border around Mystic Falls. He, and the heretics from the other prison world, would surely have thought to get rid of the prison, even if this ended with their death.

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