S31: Ponderosa

[Special K]

Savage is a narcissistic child.  But we knew that.  I can't believe how Kelly W. behaved.  "I'm not going to be greet you civily.  It was my birthday, wah!"  Seriously, this woman is a YOGA teacher.  She can't be that adept at yoga, judging from that display.  And I'm not talking about the poses.

[ProfCrash]

Ciera wasn't even the person who targeted Kelly.

 

That said, Ciera was poking at Kelly, Spencer, Kimmi, and Keith on a pretty regular basis and calling them out for not playing the game. That had to be annoying. Ciera had spent the last nine days Kelly was in the game pretty much telling her that her game sucked and to start playing. So I get Kelly being annoyed. That said, she could have given her a hug and not whined about being voted off before her birthday.

 

There are no words for Andrew and his response. Dude had six days to process being out of the game. He was the one who targeted Ciera first so why the hell would he think that she wouldn't try and target him and his alliance? Just ugggghh

 

Seriously, when Kass is the only one who is openly welcoming everyone to Ponderosa it is time for the others to grow the fuck up.

 

It does seem that they kind of chilled. Andrew and Kelly seemed to be genuinely enjoying Ciera's food binges.

[ToastnBacon]

I see crying as unacceptable on Survivor.

It is a situation that a person knowingly puts themselves into for a chance to win a million dollars.

To cry about being cold, wet and hungry is absurd. Especially when that person signed up to be cold, wet and hungry for a chance to play in a million dollar game.

Sorry, but crying is a sign of weakness. It is one step away from getting overcome by emotions and quitting.

Crying about Joe is even worse.

All of this is magnified by Fishbach being a Survivor commentator and self proclaimed expert.

[BigRedCheese]

 

I've felt that "throw-up in my mouth" thing about her since her first season when she said this about herself in her bio

 

Meh, just about every Survivor's bio is cringe worthy and vomit inducing, I stopped reading them awhile back because of that, they all go on about how amazing they are, their mad skills at deception, or even worse, how incredibly noble they are. They just write what they think the producers want to hear, and they're probably right about that. I do find Ciera to be pretty adorable though, I think she would be fun to know in real life.

[Sarahsmile416]

And if he was?

I mocked the Joe can't be voted out cry session because it struck me as silly but I am seeing it in a different light. I don't think he was the only person crying in a confessional about that rain. His feet were seriously messed up. The digestive problems he was having in the middle of that looked to be more then a bit uncomfortable. They were all cold and Stephen ended up cold, with destroyed feet, and sick. Cry away my friend, cry away.

Crying is not a sign of weakness. I cry when I am frustrated, sad, or angry. It is a pretty normal physical response to crappy situations and there are plenty of those in Survivor.

I completely agree. I have been on record that his crying over people not wanting to get Joe out when HE wanted to get Joe out was tantamount to a tantrum. But crying because of the cold, rain and him feeling sick. I get it. I would do the same thing. Though I know MMV on that one.

[CottlestonPie]

I see crying as unacceptable on Survivor.

It is a situation that a person knowingly puts themselves into for a chance to win a million dollars.

To cry about being cold, wet and hungry is absurd. Especially when that person signed up to be cold, wet and hungry for a chance to play in a million dollar game.

Sorry, but crying is a sign of weakness. It is one step away from getting overcome by emotions and quitting.

Crying about Joe is even worse.

All of this is magnified by Fishbach being a Survivor commentator and self proclaimed expert.

I absolutely disagree that crying is a sign of weakness.  People can only stand so much before they break, and to Fishbach's credit, he didn't quit.  The non-stop rain, the horrid state of his feet and the lack of sleep had to be bad enough, but to add having awful stomach cramps and diarrhea on top of all that?  Something's gotta give.  Crying is a way to relieve stress, so if crying about it a bit helped him decompress and move on, more power to him.  He didn't quit and continued giving it his all, and that's what's important.

[ProfCrash]

Quitting Survivor is unforgivable and unacceptable.

 

Crying is just fine. Although I reserve the right to comment on why they are crying. Crying because your body is in serious pain due to illness and water logged feet is totally cool with me. Crying because you are playing your heart out and it is not going your way is not the greatest reason and I will probably mock people for it but I get it. The frustration level, playing against your character is hard and some people will express themselves with tears. Heck, I would. And then I would mock myself, or more accurately, beat myself up for not having a better mechanism for dealing with my frustration.

 

Crying is not a sign of weakness, it is very human. I want my son to understand that. Repressing your emotions is awful. So if Stephen needed to cry, then cry away. I am sure he had a different mechanism for dealing with his frustration. I sure as hell know he wishes that those scenes were not aired. it doesn't help that he is an ugly crier. I mean, his face gets all twisted up. Jeremy is a cute crier. Spencer is in between.

[peachmangosteen]

Uh-oh... I'm a middle-aged woman who still rocks glitter*, so I may be forced to defend Savage's beanie hat now.

 

* I'm a part-time circus performer. Glitter's not actually optional for me. But I love it.

 

Everything about this post is so awesome.

Edited November 27, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Jextella]

Crying, is a sign of emotional strenght, IMO.  All it means is releasing feelings out loud unto the world. Once the feelings are "out there", the person is better able to identify and deal with them.  Not releasing and dealing with feelings is like not getting your car fixed when the engine light is on.

 

Better to cry an get it out so it can be dealt with rather than stuff it away and hope you can keep driving without breaking down.

 

P.S. I love Savage's beanie.  I think he's got a significant no-collar strain running through him. Plus, I think he loves the camera...and that the pouting has a bit to do with that.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Jextella

[Skeeter22]

My understanding is that Stephen was extremely ill when he got back home and had to be hospitalized. I think his health may have caused him to be more emotional than usual. I don't remember him crying in Tocantins.

[ProfCrash]

He might have but we were not shown it.

 

I kind of wish they would let us know if someone was out of it in Ponderosa because they were receiving medical treatment. They have the Doctors and staff to handle that type of thing. They knew his feet were bad, we heard them ask about it at the check in. I am sure they kept checking his feet and had the necessary meds to deal with an infection. I cannot believe that they would have kept him at Ponderosa if he needed a hospital. I know James showed up at tribal with an IV Antibiotic once.

[BigRedCheese]

 

I love Savage's beanie.  I think he's got a significant no-collar strain running through him.

 

I think he has a crush on Joe, and he's trying to make himself presentable to him in case he gets voted out and they end up together at Ponderosa. As for the pouting, I think he's just a conceited douchebag, I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

[Special K]

Andrew's snood.  That is all.

[BigRedCheese]

 

Andrew's snood.

 

I think people are just having fun calling it a beanie, I think Randy Baily started it on his twitter.

[Beebee111]

 

Quitting Survivor is unforgivable and unacceptable.

 

IMO that's harsh. Ultimately, it is a game show that involves enduring significant stress as a gamble that there will be a huge pay off at the end. If someone, upon embarking on the experience, decides that the stress isn't worth the gamble, that's certainly their right.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Beebee111

[Special K]

I think people are just having fun calling it a beanie, I think Randy Baily started it on his twitter.

 

And I'm having fun calling it a snood.  Which to me means either Orthodox lady or school cafeteria lady.  Not the associations he is trying for, I assume.  :)

[Zuleikha]

So if Savage is having this fake adorableness forced on him all day, I can understand the dislike.

That was just Ciera's bio, though. In game, she seemed most characterized by being really blunt, which we also saw at Ponderosa when she tried to just get the tension out in the open so she, Wigles, and Savage could address it and move on.

 

I also distinguish between not seeking to hang out with a person socially at Ponderosa, and being actively rude. If Andrew and Wigles don't enjoy Ciera's company, I think it's fine for them to hang out by themselves during the day, especially because Ciera and Kass are good friends. But to not get up and greet a new arrival? To give her the sulky silent treatment when they're together at meals? Come on! Any adult should be capable of being polite. Although at least they got over it eventually.

[Special K]

One of the things I've never understood about the blatant dislike of others exhibited at Ponderosa -- if you really dislike someone in the game that much, shouldn't you be happy to see them arrive at Ponderosa?  What, you'd rather they make it all the way to FTC?

[ToastnBacon]

My last post on the subject.

Crying is not a sign of strength. Let's have the intellectual honesty to admit that much.

One can certainly make an argument that there should be no shame about showing a moment of weakness, but crying in response to adversity is a sign of weakness.

Going on a nationally televised game show and crying over the weather conditions being too difficult isn't showing that one is resilient and coping with the ordeal.

It shows that they are near their breaking point.

Call me insensitive, but I don't respect that at all. I put it in the category of being spoiled and ungrateful for having a million dollar second chance.

Nor do I respect Fishbach's crying about Joe and JT being the pretty boys he can't compete with.

Someone mentioned Jeremy crying.

He got emotional over his family and it was was very brief, more teary eyed than anything else. I wouldn't criticize that type of crying.

Fishbach was crying over things not going his way, and it being too cold and difficult. We aren't talking about getting watery eyes either. We are talking about him braying like a donkey while speaking sentences.

That is weakness, and it is the kind of weakness I do not respect.

Edited November 27, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[ProfCrash]

IMO that's harsh. Ultimately, it is a game show that involves enduring significant stress as a gamble that there will be a huge pay off at the end. If someone, upon embarking on the experience, decides that the stress isn't worth the gamble, that's certainly their right.

It is 100% their right to walk away. No one can make them stay. But that doesn't mean that what they did is not acceptable. I understand that it is far harder to play the game then it appears watching at home. Their quitting screws over people who were in the game with them and takes a spot from some one who would gut it out.

 

Medical evacs like Skupin or Terry's this year are not quits. But Na'Onka, Olsten, Colton on BvW and the others who have  quit, walked away from the game because it was too difficult. They didn't leave because they were too sick to play. It is there right. No one can make them stay and play the game but that doesn't mean that I see it as acceptable. they should not be allowed back and I would prefer that they not be interviewed or treated as if they had played the game.

[eskimo]

I see crying as unacceptable on Survivor.

It is a situation that a person knowingly puts themselves into for a chance to win a million dollars.

To cry about being cold, wet and hungry is absurd. Especially when that person signed up to be cold, wet and hungry for a chance to play in a million dollar game.

Sorry, but crying is a sign of weakness. It is one step away from getting overcome by emotions and quitting.

Crying about Joe is even worse.

All of this is magnified by Fishbach being a Survivor commentator and self proclaimed expert.

I look at crying as taking a big, emotional crap.  It's something on the inside of you, that needs to be on the outside of you.

[BigRedCheese]

 

Crying is not a sign of strength. Let's have the intellectual honesty to admit that much.

 

I don't like Fishbach, but no, I won't admit to sharing your opinion because I don't.

[ProfCrash]

I don't like Fishbach, but no, I won't admit to sharing your opinion because I don't.

Agreed. Crying is an emotional response to a situation. Some people might shout. Some people might hit things. Some people cry. Heck, some people do it all. But finding a way to release your emotions is vital.

 

Stephen wasn't crying in front of the others, he was crying at confessionals. He had a private place to deal with his emotions and he did just that. Clearly I have judged when I thought the crying was over the top, and yeah I have those moments, I don't think he is weak for crying.

 

Then again, I have a three year old in the house who cries when I flush the toilet and not him so maybe I am just used to tears of frustration at this stage in my life.

[Neerbeena]

 

I look at crying as taking a big, emotional crap.  It's something on the inside of you, that needs to be on the outside of you.

 

I agree and I'll bet when he cried about strategy he was already feeling the physical and emotional toll of the game.  Frankly I'm surprised there's not a lot more crying, especially when you get blindsided.  That's got to be heartbreaking.

 

I like Fishbach - I don't see him as pompous at all, just a sweet nerd.  I'm just really surprised he played such a lousy game.  

[JudyObscure]

I think crying is very human, a natural response to stress and a sign of weakness. Lots of things that are human, jealousy, anger, greed, while perfectly natural are not particularly admirable. If ten people are withstanding cold and hunger and one breaks down and cries, is that person the strongest one? If crying gives you some kind of release and you like to go home from a hard day at work and cry, then fine, have at, but if you start crying at work, in front of customers and co-workers then I think that's weak and self-indulgent. I've worked for bosses who said, "If you cry, you go home without pay," and it was amazing how quickly the criers learned to suck it up. I wouldn't say learning to do that made them weaker. A few years ago I fell and broke my leg in two places, tore all four major ligaments and knocked the knee out of joint. I didn't cry. I refuse to believe that means I'm weak or repressed. Remember when Stephanie had her shoulder knocked out of place and didn't cry? Not weak.

Meh, just about every Survivor's bio is cringe worthy and vomit inducing, I stopped reading them awhile back because of that, they all go on about how amazing they are, their mad skills at deception, or even worse, how incredibly noble they are. They just write what they think the producers want to hear, and they're probably right about that. I do find Ciera to be pretty adorable though, I think she would be fun to know in real life.

Yet, in the Ponderosa video she says that her strategy with Savage was to keep talking to him and "joking him until he loves me. It didn't take long!" To me that sounds like she does believe everything in the bio. She thinks she's adorable and most people seem to agree with her. I guess just a few of us see her the way Savage and I do. when she first walked into the Ponderosa Savage said, "Hi Ciera," and that just wasn't enough for her so she sat right down and started giving a little lecture about how everyone should have fun and not hold grudges about the game. To me it was the same lecturing, patronizing tone as her speeches in the game about playing hard. I don't like Savage and he could have been nicer but I sort of agree with him about Ciera.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JudyObscure

[Cricketoo]

I think crying is very human, a natural response to stress and a sign of weakness. Lots of things that are human, jealousy, anger, greed, while perfectly natural are not particularly admirable. If ten people are withstanding cold and hunger and one breaks down and cries, is that person the strongest one? If crying gives you some kind of release and you like to go home from a hard day at work and cry, then fine, have at, but if you start crying at work, in front of customers and co-workers then I think that's weak and self-indulgent. I've worked for bosses who said, "If you cry, you go home without pay," and it was amazing how quickly the criers learned to suck it up. I wouldn't say learning to do that made them weaker. A few years ago I fell and broke my leg in two places, tore all four major ligaments and knocked the knee out of joint. I didn't cry. I refuse to believe that means I'm weak or repressed.

I didn't see Stephen crying in front of others.  You are never alone on Survivor, so the camera crew doesn't count.  When I was teaching, I would go home and literally scream, but I never did so in class, or in front of anyone.  I am not a weak person, but you have to let it out sometime.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Cricketoo

[Zuleikha]

A few years ago I fell and broke my leg in two places, tore all four major ligaments and knocked the knee out of joint. I didn't cry. I refuse to believe that means I'm weak or repressed.

I don't think it means you're weak, but I certainly don't think it means you're a stronger person than someone who would cry in that kind of pain. IMHO, this whole discussion is just incomprehensible to me. We all have different ways of expressing strong emotion and crying is one way people do it.

 

I didn't respect Stephen for crying about the Joe vote because I judge that as a stupid thing to cry about, but I certainly don't judge him as weak for crying about his body shutting down in the horrible rain. He didn't quit; he didn't seriously think of quitting. He was in a confessional, which is a Survivor equivalent to crying alone in one's room. I wouldn't judge him as weak for crying in front of other people either--sometimes you just have to cry because the pain is too much and he looked to be in bad shape--but I do at least understand why strategically, that's not always going to be a good choice.

[JudyObscure]

Babies cry a lot.  They can't talk, they're unable to help themselves, so they cry to get someone to come and help them.  As they get older and learn to help themselves and toughen up a little, they cry less and less. Would it be okay with the pro-criers if someone cried as much as a baby?  Every time they are hungry or have a tummy ache or want to watch something else on TV?   Is there a limit to how much crying an adult should do or is it all praise worthy and just how they express themselves?

 

On a different topic: Would someone explain to me what it means when someone says , "My body is shutting down?"  I've never heard that anywhere but Survivor, starting, I think, with Osten.

[Cricketoo]

Babies cry a lot.  They can't talk, they're unable to help themselves, so they cry to get someone to come and help them.  As they get older and learn to help themselves and toughen up a little, they cry less and less. Would it be okay with the pro-criers if someone cried as much as a baby?  Every time they are hungry or have a tummy ache or want to watch something else on TV?   Is there a limit to how much crying an adult should do or is it all praise worthy and just how they express themselves?

 

On a different topic: Would someone explain to me what it means when someone says , "My body is shutting down?"  I've never heard that anywhere but Survivor, starting, I think, with Osten.

I think I experienced this type of physical "hitting the wall"  a year ago when I went hiking in the Grand Tetons.  I was not in very good shape, but it is just walking, right?  Wrong.  I went too far too high.  I ended up doing 17 miles, some of it at 12,000 feet.  I am a woman in my 60's, and should have known better.  I really needed to get down that mountain before dark, and luckily for me, my son was there to practically drag me.  I was crying uncontrollably at times.  It was truly awful, and frightening.  My body had simply had enough, and refused to obey me!  But the funny thing is that the next day, I felt great!  I was so proud of myself for surviving that.  We went white water rafting, something that I had white-knuckled in the middle of the raft previously.  That day it felt great!  It was so much easier than that hike, that I enjoyed it without a trace of fear.  Maybe that is why people that do Survivor are eager to try again despite, or because of, the adversity.  It feels great to come out the other end.  You feel like you can do anything.  

[BigRedCheese]

 

I didn't cry. I refuse to believe that means I'm weak or repressed.

 

I don't think it makes you weak either, and I don't think crying would have made you weak. People show strength in different ways, sometimes letting it all out with others around I find very brave and strong depending on the situation, holding it in could also mean strength and bravery. I judge no one for crying or not crying, it's often involuntary anyway. 

 

 

when she first walked into the Ponderosa Savage said, "Hi Ciera," and that just wasn't enough for her so she sat right down and started giving a little lecture about how everyone should have fun and not hold grudges about the game. To me it was the same lecturing, patronizing tone as her speeches in the game about playing hard.

 

I think she said she hoped they could just let the game go and enjoy themselves in Ponderosa, it didn't seem patronizing to me, I guess it's YMMV. 

[violet and green]

The hatred of Andrew expressed so fulsomely on this forum makes me want to cry.

 

So what he's an older guy. So what he wears a dumb snood. Maybe his head is cold, maybe he got to Ponderosa and freaked out about his hair.

 

He's not my favorite player, but the contempt and loathing he cops here makes me really sad.

[peachmangosteen]

 Frankly I'm surprised there's not a lot more crying ...

 

Me too. 

 

The hatred of Andrew expressed so fulsomely on this forum makes me want to cry.

 

So what he's an older guy. So what he wears a dumb snood. Maybe his head is cold, maybe he got to Ponderosa and freaked out about his hair.

 

The 'hatred' towards Andrew has really nothing to do with his hat or the fact that he's old, it's because he's a narcissistic asshole.

[violet and green]

The 'hatred' towards Andrew has really nothing to do with his hat or the fact that he's old, it's because he's a narcissistic asshole.

 

Charming. As was pointed out to me so fervently and so very repeatedly in the Ciera thread, this is just your opinion, just your perspective, and not a fact.

[peachmangosteen]

Charming. As was pointed out to me so fervently and so very repeatedly in the Ciera thread, this is just your opinion, just your perspective, and not a fact.

 

You seemed to think people were hating on Andrew because of his hat and age and I'm just saying that I haven't seen that as the reason for any Andrew hate here.  Well actually in a round about way I guess it does have to do with his age, for me at least. As an older man I'd think Andrew would have more perspective and be a bit more mature. And to tie in the hat, I'd think he'd have more sense than to wear a knit hat in a tropical climate.

[ToastnBacon]

On a different topic: Would someone explain to me what it means when someone says , "My body is shutting down?" I've never heard that anywhere but Survivor, starting, I think, with Osten.

In the context of that being said on the TV show Survivor, it is a very obvious exggerated claim.

We know it isn't meant to be literal because "a body shutting down" would be descriptive of death.

It sounds like the way an inarticulate or overly dramatic person would describe having to spend a rainy night outside while having a bout of diarrhea.

Not a pleasant way to spend a night, but it isn't a "shut down" of the body.

Edited November 28, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Skeeter22]

I've hated Andrew since Pearl Islands. He was a dick to people he considered weak, and then blamed them when they took offense. He couldn't fathom why Ryan S. was upset by the "Skinny Ryan" moniker Savage bestowed on him, and decided Ryan didn't understand how "guys" joke around. He also said Lil voted him out because she couldn't see past her bitterness, and implied that it was partially because she was a woman and was emotionally driven. Meanwhile, 10 years later he's still bitter at her. He's displayed the exact same condescending chauvinism this season. He, and Kelly to a lesser extent, have proven they're less mature and evolved than Kass, Ciera, and Stephen.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Skeeter22

[ByaNose]

Yeah, the beanie that Savage is wearing is the least of his problems. Granted, it's not a great look for him. I think he was covering his hair because his dark hair dye job started turning blonder or lighter. I think the major problem is his attitude at Ponderosa. He blamed he was still in a dark place when he arrived & was still angry with Kass. Then 6 days later he's still a jerk. He'll probably be okay should Joe, Keith or Jeremy arrive but not so much if Abi or Wentworth show up.

[Nashville]

I look at crying as taking a big, emotional crap.  It's something on the inside of you, that needs to be on the outside of you.

 

I think Stephen King put it best, in a line from Salem's Lot:  “Crying was like pissing everything out on the ground.”

[princelina]

You seemed to think people were hating on Andrew because of his hat and age and I'm just saying that I haven't seen that as the reason for any Andrew hate here.  Well actually in a round about way I guess it does have to do with his age, for me at least. As an older man I'd think Andrew would have more perspective and be a bit more mature. And to tie in the hat, I'd think he'd have more sense than to wear a knit hat in a tropical climate.

I don't hate him - but I do think he's a bit of a douchebag, from calling people who play against him "immoral" to acting petulant at Ponderosa.  I did think Ciera sounded rather patronizing, but his behavior brought it upon himself.  And I DESPISE that fucking hat. 

[eskimo]

Babies cry a lot.  They can't talk, they're unable to help themselves, so they cry to get someone to come and help them.  As they get older and learn to help themselves and toughen up a little, they cry less and less. Would it be okay with the pro-criers if someone cried as much as a baby?  Every time they are hungry or have a tummy ache or want to watch something else on TV?   Is there a limit to how much crying an adult should do or is it all praise worthy and just how they express themselves?

 

 

I don't consider crying 'praise worthy' anymore than I consider it weak.  If you have to cry, then cry.  If you don't, then don't.  And because a person isn't irritated by someone who cries doesn't mean that they think it's OK for an adult to  cry because they don't like what's on TV.  That's ridiculous.

[eskimo]

The hatred of Andrew expressed so fulsomely on this forum makes me want to cry.

 

So what he's an older guy. So what he wears a dumb snood. Maybe his head is cold, maybe he got to Ponderosa and freaked out about his hair.

 

He's not my favorite player, but the contempt and loathing he cops here makes me really sad.

When someone consistently views other people as inferior to themselves, even in a passive aggressive way, it is OPEN SEASON in my book.

[RedheadZombie]

On a different topic: Would someone explain to me what it means when someone says , "My body is shutting down?" I've never heard that anywhere but Survivor, starting, I think, with Osten.

I think they're basically talking about continuous lack of food, dehydration, and electrolyte imbalance. There's a period of time where you're body can compensate when needed with a burst of adrenaline. But our bodies start deteriorating from all of this, and then add lack of sleep, hypothermia during the rain, and all the bug bites and secondary skin infections/fungal foot infections. I'm surprised there aren't more people coming back with some kidney damage. I wonder if they just keep that part quiet. I'm amazed that these people can even hold their heads up sometimes.

I'm one who doesn't enjoy watching these people starve to death. I would enjoy the game just as well if they were getting regular beans and rice and a multi vitamin.

[Oscirus]

I can't help but feel sorry for Kass. She keeps trying to welcome people and she keeps running into brick walls. Other then Ciera, they've all seemingly chosen to isolate themselves from her for various reasons.  The good news is that as long as Tasha isn't booted next week( who's down 4-3, uh oh), things should start to pick up.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Oscirus

[JudyObscure]

The hatred of Andrew expressed so fulsomely on this forum makes me want to cry.

 

So what he's an older guy. So what he wears a dumb snood. Maybe his head is cold, maybe he got to Ponderosa and freaked out about his hair.

 

He's not my favorite player, but the contempt and loathing he cops here makes me really sad.

I know what you mean.  Andrew irritated me a little in the beginning because he seemed a little bit smug and superior acting and I thought his supermodel story sounded like bragging.  Then the show progressed, he wasn't focused on as much and my antenna of dislike tuned into the Ciera Show -- for the very same reasons --  smugness, lecturing others which usually stems from a sense of superiority, and  bragging.

 

Which brings me to the topic I've been turning over (can't find a thread for it.) 

 

I think there's a huge gender/ageist bias  on Survivor about who we can and cannot criticize.  When older people or males are bossy and patronizing they are harshly  hated, but let a young woman do the same things and she's adorable, criticism is met with "but it's so nice to see a young girl step-up and take leadership."  So many older women were voted out early due to that "taking leadership", I can't even remember their names. I only remember  Bobby-Jon saying, "She's not the boss of me!"  Let Dan, last season, presume to give unasked for advice to Shirin and nobody could stand him from then on. 

 

So, I'm thinking, of course Andrew hates it when Ciera walks in and immediately wants hugs from everyone and wants to tell everyone how to act at Ponderosa just as she told everyone how to act in the game.  It rankles. 

 

 I don't agree that we should excuse all this as cuteness if the person is a pretty female and under thirty, while holding  the older people to a higher standard just because they have lived longer.  Some  people do continue to learn from experience as they grow older, but it depends a lot on just what experience they've had.  Most people I know haven't become totally wise and "mature," just because the years have passed, they remain human and flawed.  Kimmi, with her sick child may have learned things that Andrew has not had an opportunity to learn.  Maybe he really did have a hard time in high school and has trouble shaking that.  We don't know.  I just get tired of the double standard.   

[ProfCrash]

Most of the Ponderosa's I have seen start with all the people at Ponderosa greeting the new arrival with a be erage and a hug. Some are more hearfelt then others but it is rare for people to not actively greet the new arrival. When it does occur it is clear that there is some serious tension.

Ciera correctly picked up on Andrew and Kelly's issues with her. She was far too aggressive in dealing with it but it wasn't like she manufactured the tension or even created it. All Andrew and Kelly had to do was greet Ciera and give her a bs hug and a drink. They don't have to but it would have been far more classy then pouting.

Kass received a crappy entrance at Ponderosa her season, for pretty good reasons but it still sucked, and is trying to do the right thing for the others as they arrive. She and Andrew didn't play together and she gave him drink, a lei, and respected his request to not talk game. It is not that hard to do the right thing.

[ToastnBacon]

I know what you mean. Andrew irritated me a little in the beginning because he seemed a little bit smug and superior acting and I thought his supermodel story sounded like bragging. Then the show progressed, he wasn't focused on as much and my antenna of dislike tuned into the Ciera Show -- for the very same reasons -- smugness, lecturing others which usually stems from a sense of superiority, and bragging.

Which brings me to the topic I've been turning over (can't find a thread for it.)

I think there's a huge gender/ageist bias on Survivor about who we can and cannot criticize.

Everyone has biases and there is certainly evidence of that in this forum.

I'm not sure I would call it a double standard, because there are more than two types of biases floating around.

It is more like we each view the world through a lens that has been shaped by our human experience.

Perhaps another example is beauty bias?

Look at how Joe is treated.

He is an alpha male and is mostly adored.

I'm willing to say that if he wasn't as pretty, he'd be getting a lot more criticism.

Then, there are people out there who will hate Joe just because he is a good looking young guy.

Edited November 28, 2015 by GenL

[BigRedCheese]

 

I think there's a huge gender/ageist bias  on Survivor about who we can and cannot criticize.

 

Oh geeze, I've responded to some of your stuff about Ciera with my opinion, which is mostly favorable to her, I hope you're not taking anything I said as trying to tell you not to criticize her, in fact, your posts are some of my favorites, you can be very witty. Anybody can say whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, I just also give my opinion. I think Savage is a douchebag, not because he's old (and I don't even think of him as old), but because I think he acts like a conceited jerk, But he can also be charming, so I can also get people liking him. 

[Sarahsmile416]

I completely agree that Kelly's treatment of Ciera was not the the kindest, though I can't help but wonder something. I am a very shy person and I don't do hugs unless I know you well. If someone came in that 1) had something to do with my leaving the game and 2) I didn't have much of a pre existing relationship before I can't think that my behavior would be much different than Kelly's. It would not surprise me if she was not trying to be unkind, but merely working within her own limitations as far as social interactions go.

I could be completely off, but given the fact that she lives off the grid, doesn't do a whole lot of press, etc, that she is just a socially awkward person. I get that.

[Guest]

I found the syllable Andrew left out of triumvirate. He put it in the word "breakfasts" in Ciera's ponderosa video, somehow making it a 3-syllable word.

[willpwr]

I find both Andrew and Ciera smug and annoying but I'm more bothered by Andrew, tbh. It's not just his attitude in Ponderosa or in game, it's that months after he still hasn't gotten over it. It seems to me that Ciera's judging game play, Andrew's judging people's worth as human beings. It's not the same thing.