The Judges

[Meredith Quill]

Your Judges Topic!

[Kromm]

At least Paul Hollywood wont be there to (literally) screw around with his co-stars this time.  Also, no Jeff Foxworthy?  That's an improvement!

[morakot]

I thought Jeff Foxworthy did a great job. He was friendly and folksy and made the contestants feel at home. Ian Gomez (or "Andy") could be good; I'm less hopeful about Nia Vardalos.

 

A good thing about having an American judge is that he won't be tripped up by American flavors or bacon in dessert... Is he less sleazy than Paul Hollywood? We'll see.

[Kromm]

I vaguely remember Paul not liking the idea of peanut butter in a dessert too (besides bacon). I suppose he revisited that objection since though, since I believe Peanut Butter desserts have been on the UK Bake-Off since then and his objections magically disappeared. 

 

I'd love to see something genuinely American like a Pecan Pie appear. Apple Pie is the one everyone knows, but I doubt there's any lack of those in the UK.  What else is "American"?  Pretzels (not originally, but eventually). Banana Bread. Key Lime Pie. Boston Cream Pie. Red Velvet Cake. Whoopie Pies. Dessert Muffins (vs. Crumpets). Southern Style Biscuits (often but not always Buttermilk). Cornbread. Bagels (again like Pretzels, not initially, bit eventually). Chocolate Chip Cookies (they allegedly come from Massachusetts). 

 

Only a few of these fit a Holiday theme though, so we likely won't see them (Pecan Pie may best of the whole list). 

[ABay]

Anything with cranberries. I think they're original to North America.

 

Hey, maybe cranberries are the passion fruit of the US! But probably not since cranberries aren't as ubiquitous in American dishes as passion fruit seems to be in the UK.

Edited November 17, 2015 by ABay

[Kromm]

Anything with cranberries. I think they're original to North America.

So are blueberries, although they were introduced to other parts of the world in the 1930s (and are grown outside the US now). Then again that's also true for corn and peanuts (albeit that happened a few hundred years earlier). 

 

Incidentally, the US grows far less Peanuts than you'd think, for all that Peanut Butter seems to be inherently linked with us. We're not first in the world in Peanut production, we're fourth--and a distant fourth (China grows about 8 times as much as we do, India about four times as much, and even Nigeria, of all places, about half again as much). 

[morakot]

Pumpkin pie and other pumpkin dishes. Various desserts like slumps, cobblers, and brown betty. Sally Lunn bread, king cakes, benoits, sopapillas, sourdough, all those breakfast sweet rolls, doughnuts, rye bread...

[Kromm]

And really if you go extreme with the "born here" (meaning "The Americas", not the US) point of view, Chocolate counts too.

 

Again, if this wasn't a holiday special I could think of other wacky baked stuff that's if not always inherently American, at least represents it.  For example, if Chocolate Chip Cookies aren't big enough a target, there's the idea of the Cookie Cake. What a uniquely American idea. Take one American invention (chocolate chip cookies) and Supersize it. American Malls have sold them for decades, but I bet they've never popped up elsewhere in the world.

 

How about Bananas Foster? Not just US (New Orleans) but from the last 70 years.  It's not pastry, but there are such things as Bananas Foster Pies. 

 

Mississippi Mud Pie is an obvious one I just remembered.  And Kentucky Derby Pie. There's another. What else?  Brown Betties (a variation on cobblers). Coconut cake is arguably American (Southern), although other international kinds of cake with coconut certainly exist.  Lemon ice box pie (to match the Key Lime I already mentioned in another post). Shoofly pie (which is Penn-Dutch, so arguably German, but probably was invented after they moved here). Chess pie (another Southern classic).

 

Rice Crispie Treats!

 

S'mores. Clearly not a whole baked treat, but at least arguably as an ingredient for something more complex. 

 

Along with the Pumpkin Pies mentioned upthread, I gotta think making the show (because it DOES fit the Holiday theme) are Sweet potato pies. Invented by African slaves... but after they were already in America. 

 

Snickerdoodles are debatable. Apparently there's a German predecessor, but it became a standbye of American desserts.

[Rinaldo]

Actually the one attempt (that I can recall) at using peanut butter in a pie on the GBBS earned only contempt all around. American pies in general are considered declassée, being so disgustingly, cloyingly sweet.

[Kromm]

Actually the one attempt (that I can recall) at using peanut butter in a pie on the GBBS earned only contempt all around. American pies in general are considered declassée, being so disgustingly, cloyingly sweet.

I could swear that this changed this year though. For some reason I remember Peanut Butter being used and not being panned. 

 

I could be misremembering (or maybe even confusing it with the Aussie version). I have no doubt that Paul certainly would have panned any use of Peanut Butter previous to him going to America and judging it the Peanut capital of the world (well, one of them since apparently China and Nigeria beat Georgia, USA for production).

 It IS funny that American Pies are judged that roundly for sweetness when Bacon (a non-sweet dessert additive from America) is also panned.  Those two dismissals kind of oppose each other.

 

Actually while America is filled with very sweet variations of Cream Pie (and a lot of Chocolate Pies), the fruit pies aren't necessarily as sweet.  And of course Cakes are another category all together.

[Rinaldo]

 It IS funny that American Pies are judged that roundly for sweetness when Bacon (a non-sweet dessert additive from America) is also panned.  Those two dismissals kind of oppose each other.

Not to my mind. The latter makes perfect sense to me: I adore bacon but it doesn't belong in a sweet context, it should star in its own savory world. (Yes, I know that the combination has become famously popular recently but it baffles me as it does Paul.)

 

That's a whole separate issue from the general character of American pie (where I do part company with Mr. Hollywood -- I love my banana cream, coconut cream, chocolate, pecan, and on down the list; and he's so fond of trifle and Queen of puddings and floating island and all those concentrations of meringue and pastry cream, I'd say he has no position to sneer from).

Edited November 19, 2015 by Rinaldo

[Kromm]

Not to my mind. The latter makes perfect sense to me: I adore bacon but it doesn't belong in a sweet context, it should star in its own savory world. (Yes, I know that the combination has become famously popular recently but it baffles me as it does Paul.)

 

That's a whole separate issue from the general character of American pie (where I do part company with Mr. Hollywood -- I love my banana cream, coconut cream, chocolate, pecan, and on down the list; and he's so fond of trifle and Queen of puddings and floating island and all those concentrations of meringue and pastry cream, I'd say he has no position to sneer from).

Certainly taste is very subjective (and I mean literal taste, not figurative--the other meaning), but I've always believed the reason Bacon and Sweet have been mashed together successfully isn't because it's savory per se, but because it's SALTY.

Salt and sugar is a combination that even Paul has celebrated with other ingredients. Haven't we seen him gush over salted caramel, for example? The major difference with bacon is an extra textural element.

[Rinaldo]

Haven't we seen [Paul] gush over salted caramel, for example? 

Have we? I'm asking seriously, and I may well have forgotten him doing so. It's not something I easily imagine his doing, but the fault may be mine.

[Kromm]

Well as much as he gushes over anything. I'm fairly sure I've seen him "strongly approve" of someone using the combination.

[morakot]

I was thinking that the crisper texture of American bacon lends itself more appealing to a partnership with sweet and smooth fillings than the meaty British bacon. (However, a meaty ham is made even more delicious when simmered in Coca Cola and glazed with brown sugar so who knows?)

 

Back to the topic of Judges, I'm looking forward to seeing Mary Berry interact with the Americans.

[Kromm]

Back to the topic of Judges, I'm looking forward to seeing Mary Berry interact with the Americans.

I was trying to figure out when and where this was probably shot.

 

Clearly from the commercial it's still outdoors. Unlikely it was shot during the summer though, because that's when she shoots Bake Off, I think. I was also hoping this was shot in New York rather than California, so she had a fighting chance of dealing with contestants who aren't simply out of work actors on casting agency reality show callup lists. But the outdoors we see is verdant green. Not much in California has been that green and grassy this past year. So I'm totally confused about the where and when now.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Kromm

[Rinaldo]

Publicity has said that it was taped in the UK -- the contestants came to Mary, not the other way around. And it all came together rather recently.

[morakot]

As Rinaldo said, I understood the contestants went to her (and, I assume, didn't go home between the different sessions of the contest). I also assume that special ingredients and measuring cups were provided. I don't know if the stoves had dual temp gauges -- it would be a challenge trying to calculate the correct temps if not.

[Kromm]

Publicity has said that it was taped in the UK -- the contestants came to Mary, not the other way around. And it all came together rather recently.

Hmm. I'm guessing that's only possible because it was only 6 people. So not a lot of people to put up. Or 8 people if you count the husband/wife hosts (who'd share one hotel room).

It can't be TOO recently though because the mid-autumn weather isn't significantly better for outdoor shooting there than in most US locations.

[BW Manilowe]

Hmm. I'm guessing that's only possible because it was only 6 people. So not a lot of people to put up. Or 8 people if you count the husband/wife hosts (who'd share one hotel room).

It can't be TOO recently though because the mid-autumn weather isn't significantly better for outdoor shooting there than in most US locations.

It would probably be 9 people, assuming the contestants each came alone--the 6 contestants, the American Judge, Johnny, the hosts Ian & Nia--in 8 hotel rooms since the hosts Ian & Nia would likely be sharing a room, as a married couple.

[Blergh]

Hooray that they have Mary Berry herself as one of the judges since with her expertise but warm support to the contestants never waivering, she's a breath of fresh air compared to virtually ALL other snarky but clueless 'reality' contests on network television. We could all use a smart grandma encouraging others to aim higher in baking (or whatever).

    Johnny's okay but nothing special.

 

 As for Nia and Ian as hosts?  IMO, Ian seems to have all the personality of a turnip and, despite them being married, he and Nia seem to have all the chemistry of cream of wheat. Ironic that their British originators (Mel and Sue) have excellent chemistry and banter despite them not having any intimate bond between them. Maybe they will improve but I miss Mel and Sue.

[Grommet]

I have a huge crush on Mary. She's just lovely.

Should I know the other judge? He's okay but I actually prefer Paul Hollywood.

[morakot]

It may be a little unfair of me but after Hollywood's behavior both to his wife and to Marcela, I find it hard to see him as other than a massive slimeball. A massive slimeball with a knowledge of British baking but he has a long way to go to get back to human being status.

[ABay]

Hollywood's behavior off-air doesn't matter to me. At all. I don't care what he did or who he did it to.  However, I think that this version of the show requires at least one American judge, since the contestants are Americans. Americans who are not particulalry good at baking for the most part. But who is Johnny? Has he been a judge of baking on TV before and I've missed it?

[Kromm]

who is Johnny? Has he been a judge of baking on TV before and I've missed it?

Top Chef Just Desserts.

With.. stupider hair...

 

[Grommet]

Oh good god. I don't watch any Top Chef shows (or any reality shows other than these baking shows) so I had never heard of him. His critiques are okay, with some useful information. And he seems to get along with Mary, so that's good enough for me.

 

I didn't know about Paul Hollywood's backstory until after I watched seasons 4 and 5, so I'm going to stick with my original assessment of him. I'll admit that the accent helps.

[ABay]

Thanks for Johnny ID.

 

I think the judges are a big reason why GBBO and this are so superior to the Food Network messes--the judges on these shows tell you what they're looking for, what qualities the final product should exhibit, where bakers are likely to have trouble. 

[BW Manilowe]

Johnny talks to Entertainment Weekly about the show:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/30/great-british-bake-off-america-holiday-johnny-iuzzini

[Rickster]

Johnny was a pretty high profile pastry chef in NY, back in the day before he got seduced by show business. Probably better professional credentials than 90% of the judges on these shows.

[Merneith]

Johnny's been a guest judge on Top Chef Mothership, too. I've had a massive crush on him ever since seeing him smack down some useless fool of a chef who tried to weasel out of her crappy pie by batting her eyes at him and saying, "Well, you know ... I'm not a pastry chef ..." and Johnny replied, "So what? My grandmother's not a pastry chef but she can bake a simple pie." Watching her stand there with her mouth hanging open was sooo satisfying. (Forget her name, though, it Hosea's season.)

 

I really like Johnny and Mary together. Mary, of course, is reality show gold. I'd like to see her on Top Chef, in fact. I hope this show comes back next year, maybe with a larger cast and better hosts.

[BW Manilowe]

Chopped ran/reran an all-desserts competition episode during their usual Tuesday night mini-marathon this week & Johnny was 1 of the Judges.

[Kromm]

Controversial opinion time (after seeing the finale and going through the whole season in my head).

 

Whatever else we may feel about the hosts, the quality of the bakers, the length, the challenges, etc. by the end of this I wound up thinking Mary was not only the saving grace of this, but also that this is the best I've ever seen her. She really seemed to loosen up in a way she doesn't usually on the British Bake-Off and it made her even better viewing that she is even on that show.  She did impromptu/off the cuff stuff with the hosts, and with Johnny, she never would attempt on Bake Off.

 

Not that this elevated this show over Bake Off really, because it wasn't enough to compensate for ALL of the other shortcomings, but it makes me wish she'd bring that same energy to that show as well.  For whatever reason, by the end of this she really seemed to be enjoying herself, and it showed. That DOESN'T fool me into thinking she'd go cross-Atlantic for a US version though (because I bet at least part of how relaxed she was surrounded the convenience of basically working from home, but on something for a different audience).

[Pallida]

I loved seeing Mary put the frosting on Nia's face.

[tenativelyyours]

I do think Mary and Johnny worked.  There were issues.  Johnny knew he was the filler guy.  If Hollywood was willing and able, I wonder if Johnny would even have been there.  Who knows if Hollywood was deemed too cold and too snobbish of American 'flavors) how many times would ABC folks been happy to hear him sneer about how Americans like things too sweet etc)?  Or pretend that peanut butter and chocolate is an unfathomable mix?  Don't even get me started when he still pretends bacon combined with a sweet is shocking.

 

So Johnny was a little hobbled I thought when he had to play 'that guy' who stands next to Mary.  And it showed.  He tried a little too hard at times.   It would have been interesting to see him play off someone who was on the same level as he was in terms of being put in a somewhat iconic (in a small way) role in this particular niche of fandom.  Even for people who have never watched the original recipe, there would still be a slight offset.  Why all these Americans and this nice little old lady from Britain?  So I think Johnny did a nice job of the weird almost disconnect of playing to fans of the show and yet pretending this one existed in a kind of bubble if you will (there were lots of moments when the show seemed to deliberately be vague so that it was almost like they were filming at the Great British Bakeoff Tent pavilion somewhere between the Harry Potter theme park at Universal and the British pub at Epcot center.)

 

Mary did seem relaxed and more at ease in some ways.  Maybe she didn't give this the level of gravitas because she could tell when presented on paper it was a Bake off  lite version no matter what. 

 

Or it could be Mary just likes Johnny.  It remains to be seen whether she actually likes Paul.  Not projecting my own feelings either.  It is simply that she is extremely pleasant and professional with Paul but there is also plenty of amused commentary of the two simply not saying a word to each other before going out on stage at the Graham Norton show last time they were on.  Graham even laughed about via his twitter or instagram.  And other small instances that suggest they may not be the best of pals off set.  Nor do they have to be.  And not just failymail type chatter.  Maybe it is familiarity simply breeding contempt.  Maybe despite her witty grasp of cheeky banter, Paul's infidelity was something she still or at least did have some issues with (they have known each for a couple of years prior to that so maybe she was and is friends with his wife -- I know they reconciled but Mary might still see the Quicky with the Zipper guy).

[Kromm]

I do think Mary and Johnny worked.  There were issues.  Johnny knew he was the filler guy.  If Hollywood was willing and able, I wonder if Johnny would even have been there.  Who knows if Hollywood was deemed too cold and too snobbish of American 'flavors) how many times would ABC folks been happy to hear him sneer about how Americans like things too sweet etc)?

I suppose Johnny could still be referred to as "the filler guy", but with respect, Hollywood not being there likely has nothing to do with him not being willing or able. Or if ABC thought he's too cold and snobbish about American products and tastes it was only a piece of the casting choice, not all of it. It has far more to do with his past appearance on American TV on the previous adaptation of Bake-Off (The American Baking Competition)--which soured him for US use in a number of way. Firstly, because unlike Mary he now has a track record of working for ABC's direct competition, CBS. Which in of itself wouldn't be a problem, but it means there's potentially branding confusion of sorts since his face is associated with an almost identical project that people remember being on another network--but even THAT wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't for what else that previous experience was and what viewers took away from it. Because Hollywood created a big messy scandal cheating on his wife by sticking his penis inside his American co-star, Marcela Valladolid, and having it come out in the US and UK press. While that kind of scandal is fairly easy to survive these days for known quantities to an audience (which is why the UK audience didn't much care)--he didn't have the same Teflon coating in the US, so I think ABC/Disney just latched onto Mary as a plan B (and from the results seemingly a far better option for this audience anyway, since she managed warm and fuzzy a lot better) and didn't try to just move Bake-Off over whole-cloth. For good or ill, they didn't want to embark on whatever combo of salary demands, scandal, cold personality, and previous network associations Hollywood brought to the table, in other words. Edited December 26, 2015 by Kromm

[Silver Raven]

I guess this will be the last time we get to see Mary judging a baking show, unless the BBC comes up with its own show.

[ae2]

On 12/26/2015 at 11:44 AM, Kromm said:

Because Hollywood created a big messy scandal cheating on his wife by sticking his penis inside his American co-star, Marcela Valladolid, and having it come out in the US and UK press. While that kind of scandal is fairly easy to survive these days for known quantities to an audience (which is why the UK audience didn't much care)--he didn't have the same Teflon coating in the US, so I think ABC/Disney just latched onto Mary as a plan B

I don't know if this was filled with unintentional rowdy humor, or if it was (un)subtle genius :)

[theatremouse]

On 11/30/2016 at 2:25 PM, Silver Raven said:

I guess this will be the last time we get to see Mary judging a baking show, unless the BBC comes up with its own show.

I was under the impression it was already announced she was getting her own, new, slightly different show.

[Silver Raven]

Huh.  I hadn't heard that.

[theatremouse]

So, she won't so much be "judging" on her new show, but does have a new BBC show in the works: http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37870515

[ABay]

Yesterday when I was making muffins, I accidentally sifted the sugar in with the flour and baking powder--it's supposed to go with the butter and sweet potatoes. They turned out just fine to my taste buds, I knew Mary would've been able to tell.

[theatremouse]

I don't think that'd impact the taste so much as the texture.

[LennieBriscoe]

I think Johnny is so CUTE!

Carry on.

[rose711]

What I enjoy about Mary is her inherent professional behavior. She knows instantly what is wrong with something and always shares her advice. 

I wish they had found better contestants though I did think they were all likable people. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by rose711

[dubbel zout]

I like when they point out a potential pitfall in the walkabout—something may not rise properly, for example—and then follow through with the finished bake.

[lidarose9]

Just watching this for the first time, trying to figure out why I like it so much less than the British version. One thing for sure, the two "hosts" are the biggest problem. Their energy seems so forced and fake. The guy seems sleepy and the woman has this frozen smile plastered on her face. The voiceovers sound like they are just barely able to pronounce many of these words. Why not choose people who actually know a little about the topic? Just enough to know the lingo? Their banter with the contestants is stiff and forced. They are not funny. I like Mel & Sue. These two, I can do without.

Also, is it just me, or are all these challenges way easier than the British show's? It feels like we're getting The Great American Baking Show Junior. The complexity of the challenges in the British show is off the charts. As a non-baker, I am always positively gobsmacked at the various types and styles and techniques and labels involved week after week - and all of those bakers seem to know what it is and how to make it. The American show gets doughnuts. In particular the showstopper is always a HUGE big deal on the British show: they've got elaborate structures and complicated designs with cool gizmos and gadgets. On the American show, they are just fancy wedding cake-y type things. I admit I've only seen half a dozen or so of the American shows, but this is the impression I have. I wonder why.

I agree with whoever said Mary seems more relaxed. I'm not crazy about the guy, but I don't hate him.

[SirOsisOfLiver]

I'm not sure what it is that left me feeling 'meh' about the whole show. All I know is, we'd be disappointed to miss an episode of GBBO. If we missed an episode of this, I'd probably just give a 'whatever' shrug. Then again, I have a bit of a bias in that my experience has been that an American redo of any British show is always a pale imitation and generally eye-rollingly lame. The hosts, the contestants, the challenges, judge Johnny - they all felt like weak copies of the real thing.

[Mabinogia]

Shallowly, I just love listening to the British accents on GBBO. I do agree that Ian and Nia feel a bit more forced, or at least more rehearsed. IDK, even when Sue and Mel make me cringe with their bad puns it feels more like hanging out with friends. There is a sense of family that I think the US version would maybe need a few more seasons to reach.  

I prefer Paul to Johnny partly for shallow reasons (Paul is damn sexy to me) and partly because he borders on being a dick (which probably has something to do with his sexiness, haha) which is a good contrast to Mary's sweetness. Johnny's fine, but lacks the gravitas of Paul.

The GABS is still light years better than most competition shows that air in the US. The only exception I can think of is Face Off which has the same sense of friendly completion over cutthroat competition.

[Kohola3]

I think you just have to think of this as a kinder, gentler kind of cooking competition instead of the usual US crap like Baking Wars and Chopped with all of the trash talking.  It's not GBBO so don't compare it.  Nia and Ian, in the first season, were a bit grating but were easier to take this time.  I just stopped comparing and learned to enjoy it.  

Hopefully there will be another season albeit without the fake seasonal focus.  Just let them bake and skip the shawls and campfires in what appears to be the middle of summer.

[AZChristian]

Well, it was filmed in September/October . . . might have been a tad chilly across the pond.