S04.E08: Hug & Release

[STOPSHOUTING]

Unless you're content with making home videos, film is NOT a "personal art form" and no one is ever -- repeat E-V-E-R -- going to give you money to just let you, "do exactly you want," most especially when the general consensus is your vision = unwatchable dreck. That's not how filmmaking, or real life in general, works.

 

No noted work of art, be it the Mona Lisa or The Godfather, was a truly singular vision. It takes a village of patrons, crew, supporters, and collaborators to create anything. Not to mention that some of the greatest recognized triumphs came about wholly due to the limitations placed upon their creators. It's said that the piece of marble Michelangelo had to carve David from was too small for his original design, so he compromised, using a boy as a model, instead of an adult, and changing the posture to accommodate the lesser size. But, hey, I'm sure it would have been 1000% times better if could have carved the car flip.

 

These are the sorts of you're-not-the-center-of-the-universe and you-must-learn-to-work-with-others conversations I have with my six-year-old. The only difference is, unlike Jason Mann, the six-year-old seems to actually be grasping these basic concepts.

Edited November 3, 2015 by STOPSHOUTING

[MasalaCurry]

 

I actually enjoyed this season of PGL quite a bit. It was very illuminating. I came away with a positive impression of Effie, Len Amato, and, surprisingly enough, Ben Affleck. The most disappointing thing about this season was that they gave this whole amazing Project Greenlight experience to someone who barely registered any gratitude for it and instead saw it as a compromise of himself as an 'artist'. I can't help thinking there were far more deserving filmmakers out there.

I could not have said it better. Jason has felt from the very beginning that this project compromised his "artistic vision". In this episode he got his boys club together which included Pete and Farrelly who clapped for him and spewed some words of praise instead of being honest. Effie was honest, clearly Len supports her and respects her for saving money from the meagre budget for reshoots. Len hired Effie for a reason, and she did her job and I respected her for walking out towards the end. It was infuriating watching Jason. His squints, side smiles, strange words, ugh, all got on my nerves. Who does he think he is? God's gift to mankind? Ugh. It was too much. He kept arguing with Len, who clearly has way more experience in the business and is providing the money. Effie's only issue was personalizing her communication, but I understood where it came from. She said to Jason "I saved up money", Jason heard "I have unlimited money that I hid from you to sabotage you", and Effie probably used "I" a lot since she is used to not getting credit for going above and beyond. She also framed her words as "I think Fiona is not...", Jason heard her attacking him, and all she meant was that this was her opinion.

 

It is very disappointing that Matt Damon is such a part of the "white boys club". He could not see and appreciate Effie for doing her job. Ben, OTOH, was very professional and gave good advice.

 

I felt like Ben gave Jason the best practical feedback - find out what the audience thinks. He clearly felt that there is no way Jason could argue with audience feedback, and as a fellow Director that was the best advice he could give. Marc has clearly gotten to where he is by climbing on shoulders of people like Effie, sucking up to the big guns, and throwing the more competent people under the bus. He panicked and could not function without Effie. He was like "yeah let us set up a meeting with Effie". He was so out of it that he didn't even know that Jason had not included the scene that Len had asked to be included to add to Fiona's character. He acted like he had no idea and just went with what Len said. Len has so far not felt the need to visit the set because he had full confidence in Effie, he did this time and Marc acted like he was just not in control. Instead all Marc said was that good thing Effie wasn't around, he was less stressed. What a doofus. Len took control and was obviously frustrated working with Jason in just one day. I find it ridiculous that people like Marc have gotten so far.

 

I worked with incompetent people in my previous job. When I was new, two women who resented my joining in a higher position did everything to throw me under the bus from day 1. My boss was close to them and had no experience in my field. Since the 2 women also didn't have a lot of experience, they used silly things like I wasted time on reviewing data for marketing decisions, etc. to show the boss that I was incompetent. My boss believed them. I literally had to write presentations on why I looked at specific data and what purpose that would serve. It was ridiculous. She put someone else above me, and I told him candidly what I went through. He was shocked and tried to communicate to the boss why data was critical to our decisions. It was the worst experience for me in a job, being "upped" by two incompetent people just because they were closer to the boss. It sucks for Effie, she uses her strong personality and over-the-top behavior to protect herself and yet support her vision and belief in diversity, and to do her job. And people like Jason suck up to the right people and totally downplay her role. Nobody other than Len supported Effie. I really think she wanted validation in her role as a producer, and what HBO told her was different from what the "white boys club" thought of her role. Matt Damon was all about bringing his friend "Farrelly" in, Effie was not a part of major decisions, and her authority and commitment were questioned at every step. This was an infuriating season, I really wish they had focused more on film-making.

 

Even Pete, in season 1, admitted that towards the end shooting season 1 film in the water was a disaster, and they improvised by following the producer's recommendation on an end scene that worked better for the film. Jason thinks he is all that and is just not open to anyone else's feedback or opinion. He is "my way or the highway". And he is just not as good of a Director or as successful to be making those kinds of shots.

Edited November 3, 2015 by MasalaCurry

[terrymct]

Unless you're content with making home videos, film is NOT a "personal art form" and no one is ever -- repeat E-V-E-R -- going to give you money to just let you, "do exactly you want," most especially when the general consensus is your vision = unwatchable dreck. That's not how filmmaking, or real life in general, works.

 

 

Jason's approach to his personal form of art focused on the technical details and not the story.   Unless you're content to make movies like Fast and Furious number whatever, the story is the heart and soul of the movie.    He's going to have a hard time making relatable characters because he purposely has chosen to remove himself from life and only wants to concentrate on film.   For better or for worse, you have to know a little about life to be able to convey emotions and present believable or at least identifiable characters.  I think that's why Fiona might be such a weak character.  Jason could sort of, to some degree, put himself in the position of the male characters, but not the female ones particularly the lead.  The audience is supposed to figure out her motivation because he either doesn't really care about it or isn't able to really capture it in a believable way.  Fiona is a prize or prop around which the males' actions take place for the most part.

[Julia]

Until at the end she 'grows' by deciding to embrace being not a victim but as bad as her father. Then, her future husband (who was just now reading her an infantilizing lecture about her moral inferiority while his dirty little secret threatened her family and people in passing cars) married her anyway. Because the difference between a pretty girl with money and a pretty vulture with money is negligible, really, at the low, low price of keeping a psychotic corrupt asshole in the Senate.

This could have been genuinely dark, if Jason had owned the darkness of what he was doing. Instead, we got a Hallmark farewell to the brother (who just nearly got someone killed out of puckishness and mean spirits, or because he was acting like a jealous boyfriend). Who made a touching speech about radical honesty and then took a big check to go away after a night with his future sister-in-law's virginal sister and his random hooker friend totally from a place of brotherly love.

And it's just all kinds of creepy, because it seems to me like the story Jason thinks he's telling is about likable people with dark secrets rising above the situation, instead of a story about how everyone's much happier once they embrace what horrible, shitty people they all are.

[Clanstarling]

And it's just all kinds of creepy, because it seems to me like the story Jason thinks he's telling is about likable people with dark secrets rising above the situation, instead of a story about how everyone's much happier once they embrace what horrible, shitty people they all are.

Jason's subconscious telling him something?

[BeatrixK]

Wow - Jason.  I am truly impressed.  I believe I uttered 'F*ck you!' once about every 10 seconds during this episode - and this is coming from a die hard Royals Fan who has had to suffer through Joe Buck commentary for the past month:  Truly impressive how you managed to out douche the master.  Jason is the epitome of our 'precious snowflake' culture - and he's clearly spent gestation through 5 minutes ago being told he is the most special snowflake in the universe, and everything the even thinks about is awesome.  God, where is a runaway bus when you need it!

 

Oh, Effie - I love you. 

[Julesga]

Here's the thing I just don't get....   Jason is making what he considers some kind of high-art film but it is about defecating on cars and licking butt-holes.  

Edited November 3, 2015 by Julesga

[Julia]

Here's the thing I just don't get....   Jason is making what he considers some kind of high-art film but it is about defecting on cars and licking butt-holes.  

 

Jason is apparently under the impression that no-one else has noticed that people with old money are sometimes as fucked up as the shady arrivistes who jockey for their favor. This strikes him as a profound observation, so he's sharing. 

 

When reached for comment, Edith Wharton said "Duh."

Edited November 3, 2015 by Julia

[Milburn Stone]

Even his editor, a man that worked with Spielberg (!), started losing his shit while working with Jason. 

 

This is the one anti-team-Jason comment that doesn't agree with what I saw. It looked to me like Craig Hayes was losing his shit not with Jason, but with Len Amato who was supervising the edit session remotely. It was Len Amato saying "I just want to see what it's like if we get out of the shot two frames sooner" that prompted Hayes to beat his head against the wall and say "I can't believe this shit."

 

Mind you, I'm not saying Amato was wrong to want to see that change. Anyone who has edited film knows that two frames really can make a surprising difference. I'm also not defending Jason, whose resistance to making Len's change seemed like sheer obstinance. What I'm saying is that it's not at all clear to me that Craig Hayes' frustration was entirely due to Jason. Not from the Project Greenlight edit that we saw.

[film noire]

Here's the thing I just don't get....   Jason is making what he considers some kind of high-art film but it is about defecating on cars and licking butt-holes.  

 

That has nothing to do with Mann! If the licking of buttholes had been photo chemically corrected -- and budgeted by anyone other than Effie Brown --  this movie would be the Citizen Kane of American farce. Except with pooping. 

[blixie]

 

This is the one anti-team-Jason comment that doesn't agree with what I saw. It looked to me like Craig Hayes was losing his shit not with Jason, but with Len Amato who was supervising the edit session remotely. It was Len Amato saying "I just want to see what it's like if we get out of the shot two frames sooner" that prompted Hayes to beat his head against the wall and say "I can't believe this shit."

 

I don't think so, I think it was still mostly Jason, he says "I can't believe we are back here AGAIN" it's the circles they are going in driven by Jason arguing EVERY suggestion Len makes, instead of just letting the session flow.  That makes me think this was one of many edit bay sessions that went the same way with and without Len, where Craig, Effie and others pointing out story gaps, character issues, and Jason ignoring them to focus on overexposed shots, why did Effie not give him money for a FLIP!!! 

 

This. SLIM. FELLA. Hee, that's my favorite quote all season.

[take5]

I have not been part of this online venue during the PG season. I have such a startlingly different perspective than virtually everyone else, that I thought I would register and post it. You guys need something to rage at, what with all of this violent agreement going on. I swear that I am not trolling; don%u2019t let your head explode.

First off, I agree that Jason was not the likeable pick, or the pick most likely to work well in a studio setting. That is down to Ben and Matt -- I guess they saw %u201Cartsy%u201D. Jason lacks social skills, and studio filmmaking is an intensely social process. That said, there are some positives about Jason. Yes, I said it!

Jason knew what he wanted. He brought a script, for chrissakes, and that wasn%u2019t even the premise for the show this season. %u201CHere! Make my movie instead!%u201D Props!

Jason made his days! That%u2019s a freakin%u2019 *miracle*! Go ahead -- say it isn%u2019t.

Jason sat right down and told the editor what he wanted -- scene by scene -- shot by shot. The editor was impressed; why aren%u2019t you?

About Effie. I did not take kindly to Effie%u2019s approach; clearly, everyone else here did. Maybe it was just the edit.

Effie was downright childish in her intervention between Pete Farrelly and Jason. %u201CNo you may not talk to Jason about digital. I already tried and failed, therefore it is impossible.%u201D From my perspective she was the epitome of what is wrong with studio politics in that instance. This pretty much affected the way that I saw her for the rest of the season.

Effie was not clear with Jason on the budget choices, and played the victim when called on it. If Jason wanted to re-shoot the stupid car crash and have no money left for pick-ups, that was his stupid choice to make, but he didn%u2019t get to make it. Let%u2019s face it, folks -- the crash sucked -- and nobody on set except Jason (and me, apparently) reacted that way.

Effie%u2019s personal mission seems to be to re-cast and re-write productions to meet her vision of a perfect demographic world. I doubt this is written into her job description. That%u2019s all well and good, but I felt bad for the background guy who almost got on camera, but was then pulled because he was black. Isn%u2019t this a movie lampooning white privilege? Isn%u2019t that kind of undercut if the perfect percentage of guests *aren%u2019t* white, and all of the employees *are* white?

I recognize that Effie is good at her job, but IMO she was not that %u201Cup front%u201D with Jason; I think she saw him as the kid who didn%u2019t deserve to be there -- which he was -- but that%u2019s the premise of the damned show. The first time he over-reacts to a green light, like %u201Cwe can do the car crash%u201D, don%u2019t you learn from that, and qualify future statements like %u201Cwe can do pick-ups%u201D? Mistake; same mistake.

When Effie gave Jason the note that there was a problem with the female character, she did not frame it as a continuity issue (to my ear), but as an empowerment issue. Not having seen the film, of course, my first reaction was %u201Chere comes the crusade again%u201D, and I am not surprised that Jason did not immediately take the note. Later, the feedback was %u201Cthe story doesn%u2019t make sense%u201D, and it was addressed. of course, if Jason were an adult, he would go back to Effie and say %u201CYou were right%u201D -- maybe he did -- no idea.

Anyway, my take is that Jason was far from the worst PG contestant. He brought more of his vision than was even permitted this season (i.e., the script), he made his movie, and there was even enough length to do a sharp edit without turning it into a TV show. Didn%u2019t they pretty much have to pad TBoSH to even get it to 77 minutes? Would an HBO hire him again? I don%u2019t know. What percentage of directors make their days and come away with a usable product?

I haven%u2019t seen the movie yet -- it%u2019s on the TiVo -- but it almost doesn%u2019t matter if it%u2019s any good from a PG perspective. Doesn%u2019t sound like my cup of tea anyway.

A final observation: Ed Weeks is really wasted on %u201CMindy%u201D. He should be in more films!

[Milburn Stone]

I swear that I am not trolling; don’t let your head explode.

 

FWIW, your post doesn't sound like trolling, my head didn't explode, and I think all your points are valid or at the very least defensible.

[film noire]

I have not been part of this online venue during the PG season. I have such a startlingly different perspective than virtually everyone else, that I thought I would register and post it. You guys need something to rage at, what with all of this violent agreement going on. I swear that I am not trolling; don’t let your head explode.

(snipped fro space)

 

I don't think you're a troll -- but most of your points have already been addressed on one thread or another in this forum, so I won't belabor that -- but the personalities of these two people aside, there's no denying that Jason made a piece of shit movie, and Effie met her budget. One person did their job, the other failed miserably -- so in the endless Hollywood battle of "Can a POC and /or woman do the job?" maybe now we can start asking if entitled white men can do theirs.

Edited November 3, 2015 by film noire

[Julia]

Second. I don't know that I'm going to be having coffee or whatever she drinks with Effie any time soon - I haven't been much of a mesh with the few successful producers I've known well - but whatever her affect was in this high-stakes game, her results were purest competence porn. Jason, OTOH, to this day doesn't understand what he did wrong, or even that his film isn't good.

I've read lots of commentary about the imperial director over the course of this process, and I don't see how you get around the fact that a director who's the autocrat of his film goes down with the ship.

Maybe Effie was Alice Kramden. I don't see it, but it's certainly possible. But say what you will about Alice crushing Ralph's dreams, Ralph clearly was missing no meals on a bus driver's salary.

[represent]

I think she saw him as the kid who didn’t deserve to be there --

 

This is how she saw him? Really?

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but did she not say in one of the interviews posted here, that no one could tell her that Jason's short film was not the best of them all, despite how everything went down.

Did I not read that correctly? 

 

That sounds like a nod from my perspective that she believes he has talent, and deserved to be there.

 

But like she kept saying he's basically "wet behind the ears" so to speak, and doesn't know better about a lot things in the business. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by represent

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Bitter End
Looking back at Project Greenlight's flawed, fascinating fourth season.

[film noire]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Bitter End

Looking back at Project Greenlight's flawed, fascinating fourth season.

 

 

From the wrap up:

"Film is out of the question." Psych, he can use it after all. "We have no money to shoot this car chase." Just kidding, you can do a modified version. "Reshoots aren't part of the plan here." Cut to: reshoots, happening. If you can always give in, find more money, provide a higher-up to back Mann's play, whatever, why should we care about the conflict as it plays out? It'll always get resolved in Mann's favor, and leaving aside how frustrating it is to see him consistently get his way...is this the reality of independent film? Is this what Damfleck and HBO want us to take from Project Greenlight -- that everything just works itself out?"

 

This is so true -- there were no real movie-related stakes anywhere, just emotional entanglements and personality issues -- but the candy store always remained open.

 

And this:

 

"It's hard to craft that story visually, but again, it's about letting us know what the stakes are -- and not letting yourself as the TV production change them offscreen. Tell us what the hard number is, all in; explain to us where Brown found and/or saved money for reshoots."

 

I think a great visual would be a running tally of numbers during production meetings; if the audience had a ca-ching! visual on screen during those discussions -- Mann wanted Connecticut shoot = 1.2 million; House actually used 250 K  -- that would make the money side much more engaging and present. The actual budget = 3 million. Mann's wish list = 15 million, then go from there.

Edited November 3, 2015 by film noire

[LotusFlower]

Efie’s personal mission seems to be to re-cast and re-write productions to meet her vision of a perfect demographic world. I doubt this is written into her job description. That’s all well and good, but I felt bad for the background guy who almost got on camera, but was then pulled because he was black. Isn’t this a movie lampooning white privilege? Isn’t that kind of undercut if the perfect percentage of guests *aren’t* white, and all of the employees *are* white?

Why do you feel hiring a diverse group of people for the film is not part of her job description as producer? Seems to me a very Matt Damon/anti-affirmative action perspective to take. And really - the extra who got cut (the chauffeur) gets your sympathy? I'm sure he was disappointed, but I thought the scene did a good job of showing the big picture.

[Julia]

Effie said the actor who was supposed to play the chauffeur was swapped in for a party guest.

[FastLou]

This is the one anti-team-Jason comment that doesn't agree with what I saw. It looked to me like Craig Hayes was losing his shit not with Jason, but with Len Amato who was supervising the edit session remotely. It was Len Amato saying "I just want to see what it's like if we get out of the shot two frames sooner" that prompted Hayes to beat his head against the wall and say "I can't believe this shit."

 

Mind you, I'm not saying Amato was wrong to want to see that change. Anyone who has edited film knows that two frames really can make a surprising difference. I'm also not defending Jason, whose resistance to making Len's change seemed like sheer obstinance. What I'm saying is that it's not at all clear to me that Craig Hayes' frustration was entirely due to Jason. Not from the Project Greenlight edit that we saw.

I may be wrong, but I think the biggest argument we saw was Len wanting to try alternate takes for a sequence and Jason refusing to even try it. My take is on it was the better performance was "underexposed" so Jason was refusing to even see how it cut together. They did also have a bit where they were discussing shifting things a few frames (which can make a difference) but again it seemed like Len just wanted to quickly try it to see how it worked and Jason was wriggling around stammering trying any way he could think of to not even try it.

Either way, being the editor standing there while they go back and forth is excruciating, but when the EP in the room asks you to try something, you fucking try it.

[pasdetrois]

The PR spin was strong in this final episode.

 

Effie stated somewhere in an interview that she intervened while this series was being produced because she was disturbed at the way she was being portrayed. Maybe that's part of the reason for the PR-infused shift. She and Jason both received careful kudos from various people - Len, Affleck, Damon, the editor, etc.

 

I avoided taking sides as I watched this series, in part because I found Jason and Effie equally annoying. But I'm very disappointed at all the personal strife we were forced to watch, instead of a show about making a movie.

[Milburn Stone]

I may be wrong, but I think the biggest argument we saw was Len wanting to try alternate takes for a sequence and Jason refusing to even try it... Either way, being the editor standing there while they go back and forth is excruciating, but when the EP in the room asks you to try something, you fucking try it.

 

I think we can agree that the exact nature of Len's requested change is less the point than the strife it caused.

 

My take--that it was Len who caused Craig to lose his shit, not Jason--may be based on my experience of human nature in the editing room. When an editor and a writer/director/producer are together in the same room for an extended period of days, working hard on an edit, bonding, joking, eating, solving problems, sharing the pain of unsolvable problems, etc., they tend to form a team against the outside world. When someone new comes into the process and questions their product--even someone who has every right to give input, like Len--the alliance between the folks who have been physically in the room together tends to cause them to resist. They yield, of course, but not without tension. This is true even though in this case Craig knows his bread is buttered by Len--i.e., knows that Len is more likely to be a client in the future than Jason is. The bond, the "us against the world" that forms in the editing room, is just that strong.

 

Also, my guess is that Craig knew he was out of view on Len's monitor and felt a little freer to completely lose his shit than he might have if Len had physically paid a visit.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[blixie]

 

The bond, the "us against the world" that forms in the editing room, is just that strong.

 

I saw no evidence of Jason forming a bond with a single collaborator outside of Pete Jones, much less Craig specifically. So I can't assume Craig was in step with Jason and losing it on Len. 

[Julia]

There is a middle ground. He could have been putting out 150% for Jason (the most demanding, least appreciative person on the planet) and just when he saw the finish line shimmering in the distance, the guy with veto power weighed in. Having someone with the power to say no not involved until the job should be done, or finding out that your creative did an end run around them, is legitimately infuriating.

And frankly, given history, and given that Jason's complaint to the press was that he was made to look ungrateful, I think it's far more likely that Jason's statements of appreciation were filmed later and spliced in than that Jason the self-professed great editor was genuinely appreciative and gracious about having an accomplished editor to pull together his movie for him.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Julia

[biakbiak]

I saw no evidence of Jason forming a bond with a single collaborator outside of Pete Jones, much less Craig specifically. So I can't assume Craig was in step with Jason and losing it on Len.

Craig actually said heart he enjoyed about Jason was his strong direct vision so I also think Craig was annoyed at Len for the back and forth not Jason because he was actually controlling the machine and could have just done what Len was asking.

I saw no evidence of Jason forming a bond with a single collaborator outside of Pete Jones, much less Craig specifically. So I can't assume Craig was in step with Jason and losing it on Len.

Craig actually said heart he enjoyed about Jason was his strong direct vision so I also think Craig was annoyed at Len for the back and forth not Jason because he was actually controlling the machine and could have just done what Len was asking.

[Milburn Stone]

There is a middle ground. He could have been putting out 150% for Jason (the most demanding, least appreciative person on the planet) and just when he saw the finish line shimmering in the distance, the guy with veto power weighed in. Having someone with the power to say no not involved until the job should be done, or finding out that your creative did an end run around them, is legitimately infuriating.

 

Julia, the only part of this I disagree with is the part where you characterize it as a middle ground--since I read you as being completely in sync with my view. :)

[FastLou]

The whole editing kerfuffle is another case of them showing us a conflict without enough context to really judge much of anything. I know most people wouldn't sit for hours watching people edit like I would, but from what was shown we really have idea clue what went down, and I know I'm bringing my preconceived notions in to make judgements (which is fun but not useful).

Either way, I know exactly how frustrating it was for Craig standIng there as Jason & Len fought.

[Milburn Stone]

The whole editing kerfuffle is another case of them showing us a conflict without enough context to really judge much of anything. I know most people wouldn't sit for hours watching people edit like I would, but from what was shown we really have idea clue what went down, and I know I'm bringing my preconceived notions in to make judgements (which is fun but not useful).

Either way, I know exactly how frustrating it was for Craig standIng there as Jason & Len fought.

 

I agree with you. The interpretation I make is based on the narrative the show presented me, combined with my experience, but you're absolutely right that this narrative could be false or hugely misleading. FWIW, the narrative presented was: Craig praising Jason's judgment and focus as being far-above-average for clients he's worked with; Jason evincing great respect for Craig based on his credentials; Jason enjoying a collegial, relaxed and friendly working relationship with Craig, such as has been very rare for Jason except for his collaboration with Pete Jones.  Now throw into the mix the not-involved-until-the-eleventh-hour honcho with veto power, as Julia said, and the fireworks all align with my experience of human beings in that situation. But you're right, there could be a completely different narrative in the footage we didn't see.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[MasalaCurry]

I slept through the film, woke up, rewind, then fell asleep again. It was hard to keep my eyes open. What I could not get over is how bad Bridget's makeup was. I could not get past the white highlighter below her eyes, her eyes always appeared to made up and that highlighter stood out above everything else. It was a very bad makeup job, I am surprised nobody noticed! The dialogues also seemed out of sync sometimes. Like when Ed Weeks told Bridget "if your father were here what would he say" and she took offense. It just seemed out of sync, like poorly delivered dialogues probably because the actors were improvising and the script was not tight. I wish Jason took this as a positive challenge. Limited budget? No worries, you can use sound effects to have an impact or facial expressions given the good round-up of actors. They were able to get a good cast together. Unable to film in the dark? Use digital effects to get the same look and feel. Instead, he focused on the one second squint that Ed Weeks did before kissing Bridget. A one second squint that nobody else would notice in the entire movie.

 

I was in the market for a TV. I compared with and without LED, HD, etc. Then I realized that I see the difference in all the features only because the TV sets are in front of me, so I notice every minor difference. At home, with just one TV set, I would not even notice them and would be as happy with my TV as any other. So I decided not to pay a premium on minor differences. Since then, I use that to make a lot of decisions in life. It helps me prioritize. Jason has a real issue with prioritizing. Len was right in calling him out and asking why does that scene not work. I LOVED Len's matter-of-fact attitude. He basically said let us play the scene and see what is not working, and he said cut the frames and let us see how it looks. It was such a refreshingly practical way of looking at things that you could not argue with. For Jason to argue about even looking at alternatives was ridiculous. I think Len tried to salvage the story by putting the one-liner for Fiona. It would not save the movie, but it would fill a bit of the gap that Fiona's character obviously needed. A one-liner, all because Jason refused to write something to fill the gap. Which again Jason was passive-aggressive about. He refused to even listen to audience feedback, and all he heard Ben and Matt say was "you did a great job with what you were given", not what they said after. His expression was like "yeah I had limited resources so given the challenges this was my best".

 

A creative person would be able to make things work. Leverage all the resources instead of constantly complaining.

 

Regarding the editor's reaction, at work I once got into this argument with the finance person. She and I could not see eye to eye, we were locked in a long argument. It was the three of us - analytics, finance, and marketing. The analytics guy sat at the computer rolling his eyes and laughing sarcastically and stayed out of it. I think he felt like this editor but did a good job hiding it. Poor guy. He sat through 2 hours of argument at every invoice, probably ready to shoot himself. While we argued and argued and argued. So his reaction may have nothing to do with Jason or Len, it may have to do more with the discussion and argument, and that he was there not knowing which way they were going to go, it was a waste of his time to be there during the argument.

[Milburn Stone]

Regarding the editor's reaction, at work I once got into this argument with the finance person. She and I could not see eye to eye, we were locked in a long argument. It was the three of us - analytics, finance, and marketing. The analytics guy sat at the computer rolling his eyes and laughing sarcastically and stayed out of it. I think he felt like this editor but did a good job hiding it. Poor guy. He sat through 2 hours of argument at every invoice, probably ready to shoot himself. While we argued and argued and argued. So his reaction may have nothing to do with Jason or Len, it may have to do more with the discussion and argument, and that he was there not knowing which way they were going to go, it was a waste of his time to be there during the argument.

 

I think that's a pretty valid comparison. Especially when you add in the time crunch. Craig not only has to sit in the room watching two people argue--he has to sit in the room watching two people argue when he's supposed to be delivering a locked picture like in 12 hours! His interest in getting the job done may outweigh his interest in one side or the other.

 

On another note...I'm realizing that I (along with a lot of others) keep being irritated with Jason for making rookie mistakes. Like obsessing about the feebleness of the car crash, when anyone with experience would have known it could be saved easily in post. Or not listening to others who have good editorial ideas. Etc. But what I keep forgetting when I get irritated with him for making rookie mistakes is that he is a rookie! Of course he's making rookie mistakes! A lot of people with little or no experience might make those mistakes, or other ones. I keep forgetting that probably because he presents himself with such confidence/arrogance. But I think it's useful to keep in mind that the reason he keeps shooting himself in the foot is that he's a contest winner, for gosh sakes. If he gets a chance to have more experience, he'll probably improve.

[Julia]

I think that's a pretty valid comparison. Especially when you add in the time crunch. Craig not only has to sit in the room watching two people argue--he has to sit in the room watching two people argue when he's supposed to be delivering a locked picture like in 12 hours! His interest in getting the job done may outweigh his interest in one side or the other.

 

On another note...I'm realizing that I (along with a lot of others) keep being irritated with Jason for making rookie mistakes. Like obsessing about the feebleness of the car crash, when anyone with experience would have known it could be saved easily in post. Or not listening to others who have good editorial ideas. Etc. But what I keep forgetting when I get irritated with him for making rookie mistakes is that he is a rookie! Of course he's making rookie mistakes! A lot of people with little or no experience might make those mistakes, or other ones. I keep forgetting that probably because he presents himself with such confidence/arrogance. But I think it's useful to keep in mind that the reason he keeps shooting himself in the foot is that he's a contest winner, for gosh sakes. If he gets a chance to have more experience, he'll probably improve.

 

Which is where I go back to Joubert as the only identifiable big bad of the piece. It could be that Affleck and Damon were on board with letting Jason drown the movie in service of must-see TV, but since their onscreen participation would have been the same if they just didn't have the information they needed, I don't know that we can assume that. But we do know for certain that Joubert was aware of serious problems with Jason and that he was shown misrepresenting them. 

 

Jason wasn't asked to deal with reality. He was told what reality was, but the folks from the TV show sent a very clear signal that the person telling him that wasn't someone he had to listen to. I'm not terribly sympathetic, because he strikes me as someone who feels justified by whatever his butthurt is in bullying, but I do think in the end the production handed him a pair of scissors and told him what a brilliant iconoclast he was for running with them.

[FastLou]

On another note...I'm realizing that I (along with a lot of others) keep being irritated with Jason for making rookie mistakes. Like obsessing about the feebleness of the car crash, when anyone with experience would have known it could be saved easily in post. Or not listening to others who have good editorial ideas. Etc. But what I keep forgetting when I get irritated with him for making rookie mistakes is that he is a rookie! Of course he's making rookie mistakes! A lot of people with little or no experience might make those mistakes, or other ones. I keep forgetting that probably because he presents himself with such confidence/arrogance. But I think it's useful to keep in mind that the reason he keeps shooting himself in the foot is that he's a contest winner, for gosh sakes. If he gets a chance to have more experience, he'll probably improve.

That's a very good point, but I would hope it would make him more open to hearing from seasoned professionals rather than dismissive, which he seemed to often be. IMDb shows him writing, directing and editing three shorts, the including his submission film. I'm sure there were others in film school also, so he definitely has more experience than Pete did in PG1. I would guess in this case a little experience is worse than none since he thought he knew things he didn't - especially since he had complete control on the earlier ones.

That was my core frustration - a privileged kid absolutely positive he knew best in every single instance. And most of the people in charge simply let him run that way for whatever reason (...good tv) instead of pressuring him to listen.

[OptimisticCynic]

On another note...I'm realizing that I (along with a lot of others) keep being irritated with Jason for making rookie mistakes. Like obsessing about the feebleness of the car crash, when anyone with experience would have known it could be saved easily in post. Or not listening to others who have good editorial ideas. Etc. But what I keep forgetting when I get irritated with him for making rookie mistakes is that he is a rookie! Of course he's making rookie mistakes! A lot of people with little or no experience might make those mistakes, or other ones. I keep forgetting that probably because he presents himself with such confidence/arrogance. But I think it's useful to keep in mind that the reason he keeps shooting himself in the foot is that he's a contest winner, for gosh sakes. If he gets a chance to have more experience, he'll probably improve.

I'm not a film director nor did I go to film school. However, from my basic interest in the subject I know possible ways to fix in post like color correction and sound editing. These aren't high level terms you finally discover on your fourth film. He would have learned a lot of this stuff in film school if he paid attention. He could go into specific detail about film correction, I think it was much more about his own ego than technical or practical rookie mistakes.

So his management, ego, and being way too precious and stubborn about his "vision" were his rookie mistakes, and I find those to be personality based. Honestly, I don't know how likely he is to learn from it.

[Broken Ox]

I really would have liked to have seen what he did with someone else's script.

[radishcake]

I really would have liked to have seen what he did with someone else's script.

I'm actually wondering if that might have helped a LITTLE bit with some of his intractable behavior. If he wasn't SO invested in the script, since it's someone else's vision, maybe he would have been slightly easier to work with. Who knows?

[Mozelle]

Jason is apparently under the impression that no-one else has noticed that people with old money are sometimes as fucked up as the shady arrivistes who jockey for their favor. This strikes him as a profound observation, so he's sharing. 

 

When reached for comment, Edith Wharton said "Duh."

 

I binge watched this season over the weekend and finished the last episode tonight (I won't be watching the movie, however). I started following the threads after each episode, so I get the general discussion points from the season.

 

In any case, your Edith Wharton line is what made me finally have to leave lurkdom because I legitimately laughed out loud at it. Jason really did think that he was the second coming as it regards comedy of manners...except that whole "lick each other's asshole" part, right? 

[stillshimpy]

Wow. So we watched this in one of those "in a hotel and HBO is not offering anything

else" capacities. I saw the last two episodes and (may the gods have mercy upon me) about 75% of the movie until I fell asleep (or my brain enacted a sanity protecting coma, I am not sure which), and I was gobsmacked by what a childish person they had chosen.

Sure, he's a rookie but those were not rookie mistakes, they were the mistakes of someone unable to listen to the input of the experienced, or even fellow bipeds. I think Jason is fairly obviously plagued by a lot of nervous disorders (when a Hollywood actor and director is telling you to gain weight, the world's most BMI obsessed industry) the time has come to consider seeing a physician. I didn't have the level of exposure to Jason everyone here did, so I mostly was astounded by how hobbled he seemed in all forms of interaction. He struck me as someone who had retreated from people and into his "art" to act as a buffer for a painful history with people, but then was unable to let any voices or people past the ramparts and take the good advice. So I pitied him more than I disliked him.

But that god awful, cardboard cutout-strewn abomination of a movie had my jaw hanging. Holy crow, Bruce Davidson is a pro to the bone and all of the actors achieved a level of emotional equilibrium (duuuuuuude, that is alarming as hell) that that poor, absolutely impossible, thwarted Jason could even visit-on-the-weekends for visitation could dream to.

Forget the movie for a moment, watching him try to hug people both horrified and oddly moved me to pity. Watching this guy trying to approximate a form of physical affection (as the recipients looked like they were being probed by a dentist - squirming through necessary contact) was funny and poignant.

Ben Affleck being rather kindly paternal was also...

Well hell, the real dark comedy? Absolutely every moment of the series that I saw. When Effie bailed on trying to reach Jason in his ivory-tower-of-amassed oddities so that she wouldn't beat him to death with a spork (that's about all it would take) I was so tempted to follow.

Also, Jason withering away to A Lemony Snickett villain illustration made me genuinely worry for the guy and I only saw two episodes. Poor creature, it seems so incredibly uncomfortable to be him. Interesting series, I do wish that someone more open to advice from pros had been given this opportunity.

Edited November 29, 2015 by stillshimpy