S05.E06: The Bear And The Bow

[darkestboy]

A little better episode wise. The CGI bear for Merida looked a little lame though and I wasn't as enamoured in her backstory as I thought I would be though.

Still not digging Emma as the Dark One. Scenes with Zelena and Rumple aside, I'm not buying it really.

Merlin had some moments here but it just seemed like the last few minutes were just a set up for Nimue though.

Rumple as a hero? Yeah, right, 7/10

[KingOfHearts]

Why is it that whenever the characters attempt to do something sensible it's framed as bad? Rumple attempting to take Belle over the town line was supposed to be seen as cowardly, but in reality it was the smartest course of action. Belle's reasoning for staying was part of her delusions of heroism. What if that bear ate Rumple? Would she just call him a hero who sacrificed his life even though he would have lived if not for her pushing him to fit in the mold she had set out? Rumpbelle is frustrating.

I hate the retcon that Rumple injured himself just to avoid the war. While it was in character, that was definitely not the intention of the Manhattan flashbacks. The writers thought it up to support the theme of the episode. (Like so many retcons lately...)

Edited September 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It nicely parallels Belle's ridiculous idea to have Merida face an entire army of men.  Who cares if she's the best archer in the world if she's outnumbered maybe 100 to 1?  How would Belle have felt if all her brothers died, even if the two of them miraculously made it out alive?  It was so ludicrous that it was not inspirational, it was just beyond stupid.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It nicely parallels Belle's ridiculous idea to have Merida face an entire army of men.  Who cares if she's the best archer in the world if she's outnumbered maybe 100 to 1?  How would Belle have felt if all her brothers died, even if the two of them miraculously made it out alive?  It was so ludicrous that it was not inspirational, it was just beyond stupid.

It makes Merida's idea to turn into a bear look not half bad.

Edited September 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

This one really is just a bunch of stupid. The opening scene is great, and the rest just kind of fizzles out. I really hate the idea that someone who has artificially had the darkness he put into his heart through his evil deeds removed (while still having the brain and the attitudes that led to the evil deeds) can do one good deed that he's forced into and count as the best hero ever. That's not how that works.

I hate Belle being all Team Rumple after she learned he proposed to her with a fake dagger and lied to her about giving her the dagger with power over him, she caught him about to murder someone in a spell to give him ultimate power, she learned he'd destroyed (or tried to) all the magical people in town, she learned he'd been putting her under sleeping spells so she wouldn't know what he was up to, she kicked him out of town but he sneaked back in, she learned he impersonated her friend and lied to her to get the dagger back, she found out that his heart was a lump of charcoal because of all his bad deeds, and he had the whole town written into a bizarre alternate universe so he could be a hero and he took away her free will to make her a perfect wife. But she's inexplicably back with him. It's not like he even really changes or does anything to earn her back. Getting her heart back from Regina is definitely not enough.

I still agree with all our proposed fixes from the original airing -- let the whole gang join Merida to help out rather than Merida just conking Belle on the head, and that way let Merida demonstrate leadership.

But mostly, my fix would have been to remove Merida from this arc. I loved Brave, but I feel like these writers missed the point of that movie entirely, like maybe they saw the trailer, and that's it? All they seem to have gotten out of it was feisty redhead and being brave, because that's the title. They don't seem to have understood her character arc from the movie at all. This is a totally different character, and her presence and her story being involved adds that "and the kitchen sink!" factor to a story that was already stuffed with too many elements that don't mix well and that remained underdeveloped.

[Camera One]

I wouldn't rewatch this if Merida had an arrow to my head.

[Shanna Marie]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I wouldn't rewatch this if Merida had an arrow to my head.

I watched the opening scene with the jailbreak, then let it play in the background while I did other things. I paid bills, dealt with a bunch of e-mail, re-read the old threads, read Twitter and Facebook, etc.

[Camera One]

How many episodes have they had where Belle's centric gets combined with another Disney princess' centric?  In this case, it was hard to stomach either of them, so the episode was even more of a drag.

Spoiler

Strangely, "The Bear King" did a better job with Merida teaming up with fellow guests Red and Mulan.  I mean, did we seriously need two Merida centrics in one half-season?  

This half-season reinforced that they no longer had any story left for Rumple or Belle.  Their constant up and down had become tiresome, irritating, unconvincing, insulting and tedious.  

[Camera One]

From EW interview before 5A:

Quote

Merida (Amy Manson) is “a spitfire like [she was in] the movie,” says executive producer Edward Kitsis. “If she’s not your favorite new character this year, I won’t know what to say. She’s a lot of fun."

In the article, A&E had to debunk theories that Merida was Rumple's mother or Merida was the daughter of Robin and Zelena.  LOL.

Quote

KITSIS: There will be new characters that come in and out. One of the things we really love is that Emma becoming the Dark One has really focused it back on that family dynamic again.

HOROWITZ: The Charming family is in crisis. That’s the big driving element of the beginning of the season.

KITSIS: And the Charming Family now extends to a lot more people, I would say.

Right.  So by family dynamic or "the Charming family", they are actually referring to Regina.  Because they're sure as hell not talking about Emma and her parents, so in this case, he really shouldn't be saying they are focusing it "back on that family dynamic again".

Quote

How much will we be seeing of Maleficent (Kristin Bauer van Straten) and Lily (Agnes Bruckner) since we know she’ll be searching for her father, and Maleficent could also make an ally in the situation with Emma?

KITSIS: We intend to tell that story at some point this season. We set it up for a reason. That is one we are definitely intending to do. It’s not going to be in the first five, but that’s not to say that it might not be in the first five.

It might not be in the first five, but it might be!  This is the sixth episode so I guess not.  But they're "definitely" going to do it this season so I can't wait.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

Quote

Merida (Amy Manson) is “a spitfire like [she was in] the movie,” says executive producer Edward Kitsis.

They don't seem to realize that "spitfire" and "aggressive" are two different things. Movie Merida stood up for herself and was frustrated about being forced into a role that didn't suit her, with her fate being decided by others. I don't recall her being aggressive or being a "hit first, ask questions later" kind of person.

They seem to have essentially negated the whole point of the movie, which was about Merida learning to really look at other people and see them the way she wanted others to look at and really see her. She became more empathetic. She was never running around just hitting people, and she was softer by the end of the movie. She's an adult in the show, so she should have matured even more, but she's regressed to being worse than she was before she grew and changed in the movie. And the kids from the other clans all agreed with her about letting them choose their own fates. The parents were still being stubborn and the kids followed Merida's lead in saying they wanted to choose their own spouses and lives. But the show is having those same kids, grown up, be the antagonists refusing to accept Merida as a leader. Not to mention, the triplets as shown in the movie would have been able to escape and get the best of any captors as small children. As teenagers, you'd expect that Merida would have shown up to rescue them, only to find the clan leaders were the ones begging for help.

The Frozen arc wasn't perfect, but at least if you liked Frozen, you'd have probably liked most of it okay because the characters were recognizable and seemed to be more or less the same people they were in the movie. With the Brave stuff, if you liked the movie, you'd hate what they did to it on the show because it's so different, and if you didn't like the movie you don't care about seeing it on the show. If you weren't familiar with the movie, you're wondering why they're wasting time on this random side story that has nothing to do with the plot.

[Camera One]

I wonder if the Writers' Room sat down to watch "Brave" together.  I mean, if you're writing for a show like this, that would have made sense.  Watch these movies they're adapting as a team and then discuss and brainstorm the movie's characters, and how they might connect with the show's characters.  

Or maybe it went like this...

A&E: So... time to dredge out a new Disney character to bring onto the show but we've already used most of them.

Writer 1:  Pocahontas?  The Hunchback of Notre Dame?  

A&E: B-o-r-i-n-g.  Remember, we need to be dark but not bleak.  Frozen was such a success for us, so I think we should do Brave. Now, what does everyone remember from that movie?

Writer 2: There was a redhead.

Writer 3: There was a bear, I think.  Or a wolf.  

Writer 1: The movie was also called "Brave" so there's that.

A&E: I think we have enough to work with!  

Edited April 20, 2019 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

So we get yet another random paring of Belle and some random Disney princess because...fuck it, we dont know what else to do with her. Not only is this episode super lame, its a really lame version of a Brave sequel. 

At least with the Frozen arc, which was basically a Frozen sequel with the Once gang showing up sometimes to learn life lessons, the characters acted in ways that made sense based on what we saw of them, and the story seemed like a natural progression of the plot, with Hans and with their dead parents and Elsa's powers. The Brave sequel is a crappy sequel, and a crappy Once episode. Merida apparently unlearned her lessons from the movie, the triplets might as well by crash test dummies, her dad is dead, her mom is exiled, and the clan leaders and their sons have all become total assholes in the intervening years, and have also unlearned their lessons from the movie. And haven't changed their outfits in years! Its just depressing, and annoying, as it makes the connection to Brave even more superficial than most of Onces take offs, which is pretty damn impressive.

While Brave isnt a great movie it did have a lesson I liked, that the skills that Merida rolled her eyes at as being lame, mainly stereotypically feminine things like needle work, dancing, communication, and even diplomacy, were actually good things that would help her as a leader and as a person, and that just because she embraced those, she didnt have to give up her fiery personality and her love of the outdoors and archery and such. And her parents and the clan leaders all learn that by listening to other people and understanding their point of view, especially her mom, and they all reach a compromise and realize that they're stronger together, and Merida learns to be more empathetic and understanding of the bigger picture.

Of course, A&E really do think that "girlie" stuff is lame and stupid, like needlework and picking flowers and silly things like communication and compromise, so obviously they would ignore all of that and have Merida save the day by shooting real good. Having empathy for how your actions affect others? Gross! A Strong Female Character cant like girlie stuff like that, they have to grab a sword and be pissed all the time and hate pink and be a badass! Because they fundamentally dont get it. Any of it. 

So Rumple gets to be the hero after years of evil because he got a soul wipe, and he threw a rock? And now he gets to be the truest hero ever? That is not how being a good person is supposed to freaking work! By that logic, the stone the sword was stuck in in as much of a hero as Rumple.

Edited April 26, 2019 by tennisgurl