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Say Yes To The Dress - General Discussion


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16 hours ago, Evangeline said:

That said, I know I'm not suited for their business model, so I'd know better than to show up for an appointment there without having already selected online some dresses I'm interested in. I also think if they're going to put blind trust in the expertise of their consultant, they should at least try the dresses on rather than rejecting them on the hanger.

Yes, to both of these points!  Not only would I go in with some pictures of what I like, I would go in with pictures of things that I don't like (because my knowledge of fashion terminology sucks, so if I'd rather point it out than try to describe it).  But, I have learned over the years that it doesn't hurt to try something on that you aren't sure of because sometimes you'll be surprised that it looks really good on you.

Edited by Shannon L.
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On 8/11/2019 at 9:57 AM, Toodleoo said:

I suspect there are some family dynamics for the Tuscany bride that perhaps weren’t immediately evident in the Kleinfeld showroom. When the sisters(? I wasn’t paying attention when their relationships were announced) joked about just showing up and then the one in the middle sort of backtracked very quickly, I got the feeling that her mom likes to do a fair number of unannounced visits and perhaps the bride was working to prevent that.

Or perhaps if the bride said yes to mom that could have meant dealing with some nasty dynamics from other parts of the family which could snowball into a big mess of “well you invited HER so why not me, etc.”  I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on that.

Was surprised she covered her tattoos for the ceremony though.

edit: Aha, it was the *stepmother* who pulled back on the sneak attendance. Yeah I think there’s a lot going on with the family that the women didn’t choose to go into on camera.

Yep. Pretty sure we're not getting the full story. It sounded like if you invite one the whole family tree and three neighboring forests are going to show up. A friend of mine did a destination wedding and a surprising number of family members expected the bride and groom would pick up the full tab or at least most of it. I asked other friends and coworkers who said they had similar responses/heard similar stories from destination weddings. 

Also we're focused on the bride saying no but the drama may be in the groom's family and this is their bad compromise to keep the peace between the two families.

Edited by quirkygal
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Tuscany bride needs some intensive therapy. "Everyone was crying and it made me feel so good, like I was supported." What kind of emotional manipulation BS is that?  And her statement that her husband had better cry too? She's got some deep-seated issues. Wonder how much of it was created by the parents. 

Agree with the statements above--her wedding did look lackluster and dull.  And someday she'll look back at pictures and think, "why was the best man's girlfriend there but none of my family?" Maybe. She seems really immature and shallow.  Ugh. Could not stand her. 

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Did waffling bride say what her wedding timeline was?   Yes, this was her first visit, but don’t most brides start looking at wedding magazines and at least have some idea of what they want in a dress?   I agree with others that all she wanted was to be on TV.

What’s the point of a destination wedding where no one can attend?  To me, it’s screams “I’m a selfish bitch”.  I’m wondering if perfectionist bride, who can’t make up her mind, even though she’s two months from her lonely wedding, is escaping something?  No matter, I think it’s disgusting that the mothers can’t attend.  I would love to know how the groom’s mother feels.  I know I’d be pissed and I’m not sure I’d even attend the Texas reception.  Could you see that?  I’d love to see none of them attend the reception.  If I’m not good enough for the wedding, screw you and your reception.  

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On 3/3/2019 at 7:41 PM, Irlandesa said:

That woman had a bad entourage and it was sad.  Too many people in entourages don't realize that they're only supposed to really give feedback if something looks weird.  Like sometimes, I think some of these dresses look like they smush the boobs.  I'd say that.  But a style that looks different than what you'd choose but still looks good is not the dress that you should poo poo. 

My mother spent almost her entire career working in an upscale (for our relatively small town) ladies clothing store, including selling wedding gowns. She was invariably the top producer in her area, and often the entire store. Her secret: put aside your own preferences and recommend something that the customer will like and also looks good on her. She had numerous customers who would come in and ask her to pick out their new seasonal wardrobe for them. But with some of the entourages I’ve seen on this show, they apparently don’t understand that concept. For that matter, I fail to understand why the bride needs a damn entourage. Find something you like, that looks good on you and is within your budget. It’s not rocket science and doesn’t need a selection committee. Maybe bring along your BFF just as a reality check, but no more than one very trusted friend. 

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The friends were ridiculous but I do have to say, I agreed with the gay best friend on how cookie cutter he found the second dress because it represents one of my pet peeves on this show.  Brides always talk about their themes and how they want a dress that goes with the theme or is unique only to end up in a dress that is far from unique or little about it screams "theme-appropriate." 

"I love color" ends up in off white or blush.  "I'm getting married on a beach" bride ends up in a ballgown with a long train.  "I prefer something simple" ends up with tons of bling.  And so it goes.

Marlo's dress was beautiful but c'mon show, that was barely disguised fakery.  The dress was clearly designed for the cape or at least picked out and customized for the cape.  It did work and that wedding looked like a lot of fun.

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9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The friends were ridiculous but I do have to say, I agreed with the gay best friend on how cookie cutter he found the second dress because it represents one of my pet peeves on this show. 

I thought that the second dress was a little bland.  I wondered why they didn't add a blingy belt to it and try to liven it up since she seemed to like it so much.  I didn't like the first dress either.  I don't care for strapless dresses that are that low.  I wanted to reach through the screen and pull it up!  As a small-busted women, those types of dresses accentuate what I don't have!  The strapless, straight neckline seem to be more flattering to a smaller bust, IMO.   

I'm not sure that bride knew exactly what she wanted.  I think she was torn as to what is expected of her from her fiancé's family, and what she actually wants.  Hopefully she found something that made her happy. 

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When the entourage consists of showoff friends who put on tiaras and hold bouquets, you can be sure it’s not a real appointment.  The bride couldn’t even fake it well.

She’s either already gotten her dress with her mother on hand or will be doing so.

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I enjoy Margo and Marlo’s over the top antics as much as I enjoyed the spray tanned Barbie Lawyer twins, which is NOT.AT.ALL! From what they were hinting around about, I just know they’ll be back again for a “twin vow renewal” complete with new dress shopping fake drama. 

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23 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

What’s the point of a destination wedding where no one can attend?  To me, it’s screams “I’m a selfish bitch”.  I’m wondering if perfectionist bride, who can’t make up her mind, even though she’s two months from her lonely wedding, is escaping something?  No matter, I think it’s disgusting that the mothers can’t attend.  I would love to know how the groom’s mother feels.  I know I’d be pissed and I’m not sure I’d even attend the Texas reception.  Could you see that?  I’d love to see none of them attend the reception.  If I’m not good enough for the wedding, screw you and your reception.  

I couldn't agree more. At age 59, I just lost my mother and never got married. But if I had, I'd so regret not having had her at my wedding -- especially if she dragged her through the whole dress-shopping safari. How cruel. And the "reception back home" thing is pretty meaningless. Nobody cares about a stupid reception. They want to see you get married. What a selfish bitch.

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My cousin's daughter went to Hawai'i and no one else was invited, it was just her and her fiance.  My cousin is the kindest soul and put on a happy face and was totally supportive.  

Six  years later, the girl was diagnosed with a terminal illness and died.  To her dying day she regretted that decision and I know her mom did as well - nothing to remember her only daughter's wedding but some pictures taken by a stranger.

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On 8/11/2019 at 5:24 AM, wait.what said:

Could she have had a small wedding with just the immediate family FIRST, then went to Tuscany with her MOT and best man (AND HER PHOTOGRAPHY TEAM???why)?

What on earth is a "MOT??"

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I hate the shows where they bring a GBF.  They always push for what they want instead of what the bride wants.  I don't remember a single one who didn't act like a jerk.

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14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Marlo's dress was beautiful but c'mon show, that was barely disguised fakery.  The dress was clearly designed for the cape or at least picked out and customized for the cape.  It did work and that wedding looked like a lot of fun.

I thought it was fake too, that dress was the only one that came close to fitting, magically.  Did they say their mother made that cape from all of her dresses, if so I am not buy it.  

Why do they have to drum up drama with horrible entourages, brides that try on every dress this side of the Mississippi, etc...we would all watch an endless parade of gorgeous dresses with the sound onn mute!

Randy's dress with the detachable sleeves was not my favorite dress.

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Model bride was beautiful but she was obviously not there to buy a dress. Her GBF was insufferable. When she walked out in the first dress, something was visible on her leg  Was it an ankle monitor? 

Marlo’s dress was perfect (she could have skipped the extra bling she added to the bottom), and you’re all right, it was the only dress that would have worked with that cape, so why waste time in the other dresses?  Glad she didn’t end up wearing the birdcage veil she had on before the wedding. I’ve never been a fan of those. 

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So fair and cost effective?  Fair would have been to get married in Texas and then honeymoon in Europe.  I don’t care how she wants to paint this, she comes off as selfish.

Here’s what I find interesting.  When looking at her Facebook page, it looks like she and her fiancé traveled the world, and continue to do so, and not on the cheap.  If she can do all this, why couldn’t they afford to bring the immediate family to their destination wedding?  They don’t appear to be hurting for money. 

Edited by KLovestoShop
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I don't have a problem with destination weddings.  I think people should get married wherever they want to get married.  Sometimes that means it's more of an elopement.  Sometimes it means that people you might want at your wedding can't make it. 

But that wasn't the problem with the Tuscany bride, IMO. She was off putting on the show for the same reason the Facebook posts were off putting.  There seems to be a complete lack of awareness and the martyr mantra doesn't play well.  The bride, her mother and her step mother all went to NY to participate in this reality show.  I would have no problem if she pointed out how things were different than how they were portrayed on the show but claiming victimization when it was her mother and stepmother who were joking about crashing the wedding and lamenting about how they weren't able to go is ridiculous.  That's on them. Plus, there was even a shot from the wedding where she told her mother she hoped she wasn't there.

Fairness has nothing to do with anything.  Being fair as a bride is inviting who you want to invite. If it's cost prohibitive for some of the guests and not others, that doesn't make the wedding more or less fair; it just makes it cost prohibitive for some and not for others.

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12 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Hey ya'll where did that cape come from, did she buy it somewhere else and bring it with her, I missed something. I thought it was tacky, but she looked pretty damn good in it.

They said their mother who passed away four years prior had sewn it from parts of old dresses.

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22 hours ago, BoomerRumor said:

What on earth is a "MOT??"

I think the poster meant MOH.  Maid of Honor.

On the episode, it sounded as if the parents were all willing to pay their own way to Tuscany   I guess the bride thought that would be unfair to the people who couldn't afford it?  

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1 hour ago, Josette said:

I think the poster meant MOH.  Maid of Honor.

On the episode, it sounded as if the parents were all willing to pay their own way to Tuscany   I guess the bride thought that would be unfair to the people who couldn't afford it?  

And why should that matter?  Obviously, this particular bride was most interested in going to Tuscany and having a photo shoot of her and her groom rather than having family and friends at her wedding.  If people cannot afford to travel, then don't get married overseas.  It is obvious that her priority was to have the wedding in Tuscany.  That came across loud and clear.  It was also obvious that she didn't even want her immediate family, ie her parents; to be present. That's her choice, but she needs to own it and needs to admit that, to some people, it makes her look like a selfish cow.

I had a sister who got married in her mid 30's, she never wanted a big wedding and it was the groom's second marriage and he didn't care.  Since she was American and he was Australian; they chose to get married in Hawaii since it was sort of midway between the two.  His mom, sister, aunt and uncle attended.  I attended with our 3 other sisters and aunt.  My father's health didn't permit him to come, but he did listen on a cell phone.  The morning after the wedding, we all met up for breakfast and the bride and groom bid us farewell as they went off privately to honeymoon while the rest of us vacationed.  To this day, almost 30 years later, I still don't know where they went.  It is perfectly possible to have a destination wedding and allow people to decide for themselves if they want to come or not and to still have a private honeymoon.

Edited by doodlebug
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16 hours ago, DietCokeJunkie said:

Model bride was beautiful but she was obviously not there to buy a dress. Her GBF was insufferable. When she walked out in the first dress, something was visible on her leg  Was it an ankle monitor? 

A microphone pack.  Have seen them occasionally on other brides

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20 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I thought it was fake too, that dress was the only one that came close to fitting, magically.  Did they say their mother made that cape from all of her dresses, if so I am not buy it.  

Why do they have to drum up drama with horrible entourages, brides that try on every dress this side of the Mississippi, etc...we would all watch an endless parade of gorgeous dresses with the sound onn mute!

Randy's dress with the detachable sleeves was not my favorite dress.

Marlo's whole story was a bunch of baloney.  She had 10 GRAND to spend on a wedding dress but waited until 6 weeks before the wedding to shop?  Sure, she did.  It's not like she didn't have plenty of time to plan, she had to have been engaged for a couple of years at that point.  And I seriously doubt she was unaware that they would lose their deposit on the venue if she didn't get married by the end of the year.  She had to have signed a contract that spelled it out and she'd already postponed the wedding once.  I think the dress she chose was already a custom order just for her, she is not exactly a sample size with a classic figure, and all that was going to happen in the 6 weeks was the addition of the silver trim to match the cape.

I must say that when she wore the cape in the salon, I thought it looked tacky, but it really looked gorgeous by candlelight at the wedding and , presuming Vera and the girls did the trim, they once again did  a spectacular job.  The workmanship of Kleinfeld's seamstresses seems impeccable.

And, now, Marlo and her sister can go away, they really aren't that interesting that we needed 3 episodes of wedding dress choosing with them.

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2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I think the dress she chose was already a custom order just for her, she is not exactly a sample size with a classic figure, and all that was going to happen in the 6 weeks was the addition of the silver trim to match the cape.

I must say that when she wore the cape in the salon, I thought it looked tacky, but it really looked gorgeous by candlelight at the wedding and , presuming Vera and the girls did the trim, they once again did  a spectacular job.  The workmanship of Kleinfeld's seamstresses seems impeccable.

There are sample 'plus size' gowns...I'd assume that's where they were selecting. The cape was made from their mother's gowns, so pieces of other dresses. Possible....give them the benefit of the doubt and move on...(and I agree, no more Marlo/Margo....same as with the blond twins Amy & Emily from several seasons ago)

20 minutes ago, jenifaohjenny said:

Also....BENTLEY.  The GBF. Umm....

Ugh...he's rude and selfish. Randy's 'scolding' was appropriate. 

Personally, I love the gown with the detachable sleeves. Very modern & fashion forward...not for everyone, but the bride who chooses it will be a showstopper.

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Anybody else notice that the gown with the detachable sleeves was far too small on the model bride? I understand that sample sizes are small but she was a freaking model! It made me pissed at Randy. Was he too cheap to buy enough material to make a real sample? Seriously, nobody would fit in that sample. I was just shocked that it didn’t even come close to fitting her. Also, Tuscan bride was selfish. She should have just had the wedding and reception in Texas and honeymooned in Tuscany. If she is already paying for a big reception, adding the ceremony adds minimal cost.

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23 hours ago, Psychobunny said:

 I was just shocked that it didn’t even come close to fitting her.

It didn't even look like it was 1 size too small, it looked 2-3 sizes off which is shocking considering how thin the girl was. I know bridal generally runs smaller but that was ridiculous. I would also think that someone would be much more likely to purchase a dress where the sample they tried was on the bigger side and they felt good about having to have it clipped in.

It might be because she bought the sample and had it altered but the cups on Marlo's dress didn't look like they fit. Maybe it was the duct tape or whatever but I felt like her bust looked really weird in the dress. I think she would have benefited from straps or more support in the dress. I really liked her bridesmaids dresses.

I wasn't a fan of her dress but it looked like a fun wedding and her and her groom seem happy and well suited.

Edited by maggiegil
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10 hours ago, maggiegil said:

I I would also think that someone would be much more likely to purchase a dress where the sample they tried was on the bigger side and they felt good about having to have it clipped in.

It was a number of decades ago that trying on bridal apparel would have been a concern of mine, but I do remember talking to the owner/manager of a very tony bridal shop who said that (at that time) bridal dress sizes usually ran large because brides liked to be able to say, "I was only a size X when I got married." Since I started watching this show I've been wondering when the decision was made to start making samples that required the use of bungee cords.

Edited by rur
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That sequined jumpsuit was 13k! I went back just to make sure I hadn't misread it, it looked so cheap.

I was prepared to be annoyed by jumpsuit bride but I actually really liked her and her Mom was super cute. I like that they made their opinions known but still supported what she wanted and that she held her ground without being rude or obnoxious.

I wish we got to see her try on the jumpsuit, I really liked it as a dress (too low cut for my taste but since she wasn't busty I didn't hate it). I would love to know how much it was given the price of the sequined jumpsuit, the dress in its normal form was 2k so I'm curious was it much more.

So glad Hayley Paige didn't have those ultra long extensions in this episode, she looked much better without them.

Was laughing when airport brides family in law were saying that the super sparkly dress wasn't grand enough for a wedding on an airport runway! I didn't like how pushy her family in law were. The Lazaro the other week in the similar shimmery fabric was so much nicer but I didn't hate her dress like I usually do with Pninas. The bride and groom looked like they were going to the same event but most of guests were really underdressed (but again dressed fine for the venue). Their flowers made me a bit sad, creating something balanced is such an art.

Do you think the airport bride got a discount for mentioning Pninas instagram given that Pnina herself mentioned it several times as well?

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8 hours ago, maggiegil said:

The Lazaro the other week in the similar shimmery fabric was so much nicer but I didn't hate her dress like I usually do with Pninas.

This was my favorite Pnina dress ever (or should I say the only one I’ve ever liked lol) - it was beautiful and not trashy at all.  I would never have known it was hers.

I agree though that the Lazaro was better.

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12 minutes ago, cameron said:

I think I'm getting too old for this show.  Can't understand bride's obsessions with looking sexy on their wedding day.

As a card carrying COL (Clueless Old Lady) I cannot understand it either. Isn't sexy something you want to save for your wedding night? 

Oh, wait, there aren't but a minuscule number of "first time on the wedding night" couples anymore I suppose.  But why the need to show off all of your goods to family and friends?  I don't think Granny and Great Uncle Frank especially enjoys seeing all of that skin.  I know I don't.

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I think that with the right dress, a bride can look sexy, but not trashy.  Some of those high-priced dresses don't leave much to the imagination!  I think that a bride should have some modesty, especially for a church wedding.  She doesn't have to have a 'Little House on the Prairie' style dress, but something modern and not boobs & stomach-baring looks better to me.

12 hours ago, maggiegil said:

Was laughing when airport brides family in law were saying that the super sparkly dress wasn't grand enough for a wedding on an airport runway! I didn't like how pushy her family in law were.

In fairness to them, the bride did acknowledge that they wanted a more conservative gown, so she should've been prepared for their feedback.  I do think they were stuck on the ballgown style though.  Luckily the dress she chose appeased everybody.  I was surprised that her Mom didn't think that the first dress was form-fitting enough!  I thought it looked good, but the Mom said she wanted even more form-fitting.  I'm not sure how much tighter they could've gone!

Why didn't Randy suggest to the jumpsuit bride to consider a dress for the ceremony, and do a jumpsuit for the reception?  She might've been okay with that idea.  I'd have to see that jumpsuit on to decide if I liked it or not.  On the hanger, it's a no for me.  Maybe the legs kind of flow together so it looks like a dress, but for a black-tie event, I think it's too informal. 

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I was surprised and pleased that there were no Pnina stripper fairy dresses and that the dresses they tried on weren’t outrageously priced.  I looked up Randell, the Jumpsuit girl on Facebook and I was so surprised to see that she had a backstory the producers didn’t try to milk - she has cystic fibrosis.  I wonder if she purposely left that out and if so, good for her!  She wants to be known as jump suit girl, not for her disease.

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2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I think I'm getting too old for this show.  Can't understand bride's obsessions with looking sexy on their wedding day.

I recall a college friend saying she was working too hard to be thin to wear a big dress so she went pretty skin tight for her wedding.  Not my cup of tea.  I actually probably gained some weight during my engagement - too happy and celebrating to diet.

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1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

I think that with the right dress, a bride can look sexy, but not trashy.  Some of those high-priced dresses don't leave much to the imagination!  I think that a bride should have some modesty, especially for a church wedding.  She doesn't have to have a 'Little House on the Prairie' style dress, but something modern and not boobs & stomach-baring looks better to me.

In fairness to them, the bride did acknowledge that they wanted a more conservative gown, so she should've been prepared for their feedback.  I do think they were stuck on the ballgown style though.  Luckily the dress she chose appeased everybody.  I was surprised that her Mom didn't think that the first dress was form-fitting enough!  I thought it looked good, but the Mom said she wanted even more form-fitting.  I'm not sure how much tighter they could've gone!

Why didn't Randy suggest to the jumpsuit bride to consider a dress for the ceremony, and do a jumpsuit for the reception?  She might've been okay with that idea.  I'd have to see that jumpsuit on to decide if I liked it or not.  On the hanger, it's a no for me.  Maybe the legs kind of flow together so it looks like a dress, but for a black-tie event, I think it's too informal. 

Of course, the overweight sister had to join in the act about having a sexy dress.  Maybe she was daydreaming about how she would look in one.

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Everyone is entitled to their dream dress, but I just don’t get the whole jumpsuit thing.  You have to basically get undressed every time you go to the bathroom. 

I’m another one who doesn’t understand sexy wedding dresses.  You’ve already got the guy, so why the need for hookerdom on your wedding day?  And did you all see the bride’s chest?  Did it look wonky to anyone else? In some camera angles it looked like she had a huge scar, but in others she just looked super boney. 

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Is anyone watching the show that follows from Canada?  This last one had a bride who wanted to look sexy and the dress she bought was downright modest compared to what a lot of the Kleinfeld brides buy.  It's kind of refreshing. 

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19 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

Everyone is entitled to their dream dress, but I just don’t get the whole jumpsuit thing.  You have to basically get undressed every time you go to the bathroom. 

I’m another one who doesn’t understand sexy wedding dresses.  You’ve already got the guy, so why the need for hookerdom on your wedding day? 

When my cousin got married the first time the bridesmaid dresses were floor length "culotte" style. Going to the bathroom was quite an ordeal. I took my mom in with me to hold the top of the dress while I pottied so it wouldn't drag on the floor. We laughed about that for years.

Some of those "sexy" dresses look like they are more appropriate for a Vegas floorshow than a wedding. Especially a church wedding! A friend's daughter, who isn't really slender enough to pull it off, wore one of those strapless mermaid dresses that was skin tight and (bless her heart!) she looked extremely uncomfortable. With the boning in the torso and the built in bra, she looked like the dress was wearing her.

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1 hour ago, CruiseDiva said:

With the boning in the torso and the built in bra, she looked like the dress was wearing her.

And can you imagine trying to sit comfortably in something like that?  You'd feel like you were in an Iron Maiden!  

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Show was on this afternoon (an old show from around 2010?) where the Mother's were imposing their wishes.  The two featured who were trying on dresses - I wanted to kick both mothers in the rear.

One bride was a slightly larger woman, not model size, but I didn't get that she was plus sized - I'd say maybe size 10 to 14.  Not sure as I didn't hear the size.  None of the dresses were stretched to being sausage casings; one was a sample size - which they knew wouldn't fit her but wanted it on - with clips and such to try to close it a bit.  I think something ripped a bit, but the salesperson wasn't bothered as she was the one who said let's see how this profile works.  The poor bride had already endured the mother laughing and making fun of her choices up to that point.  Bride was upset after the sample dress, wiping away tears in the confessional.  Mother kept saying it's not my style and I don't like it.  Randy did talk to the camera saying I wish the mothers would realize it's their daughter's day, not theirs.  The daughters should be able to pick out the dress they want.  Amen.   Bride did end up with a lovely dress that both loved.  She did look like a million bucks in that dress.

Second bride was 19, named Duvae.  She was Mormon so they had to make alterations to the dress so it was acceptable.  As I searched for this one online, found some interesting comments by former Mormons.  Most are not married in wedding dresses in the temple, as they have to wear a robe over whatever dress; some have figured out to get a simple, basic white dress, then wear a wedding dress to the reception.   The mom here kept saying oh I want her to stay my little girl (youngest in the family from what I gathered).  Not enough you gave her a hideous name, now you won't let her grow up.  Fantastic.  Bride found a dress she loved, but mom didn't like it so they went away with nothing.  Mom wanted her in a 'princess gown', of course.  She has pictures online of her dress - modest simple dress, not princess looking really, so the bride did get something she wanted a bit.  

There was also a bride who was getting married in a few weeks, coming in for a fitting.  She'd purchased the gown without mom present.  The gown was 11k.  She was all nervous about what if mom won't like it.  Mom loved it, of course.  What would she do if she didn't like it?  Doubtful they'd show a meltdown like that - Mom hates my 11k gown - what can I do?  It was a nice dress, but no way could or would I ever spend that much on one gown.  

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