S02.E04: 204

[Nanrad]

Relationships where they are romantic, familial, or friendship--even business partnerships can be incredibly devastating once severed. Monetarily, she's fine. Physically, she's fine. Emotionally, she's a wreck. But, wait, is she only fine because she has money? I understand that there are tons issues with some rich people, but money can't fix a twenty year emotional investment. I know I should move on from the topic, but it's hard for me to fathom not feeling sympathetic that they were cheating on simply because they are rich.

 

On to another topic, is Helen supposed to open her arms and say, "There, there, Noah, we all make mistakes." Why is she supposed to be on her best behavior to keep him when he's been on his worst? TBH, I don't think it's "easy" to find another person you're in love with. It's easy to lust and spend time with a person, but be in love and build a life together? Not if you want a healthy and happy relationship. This is why it takes some so long to get married and settled down or why some move from relationship to relationship and are still unhappy. Relationships are hard work and for many who don't understand that (even some that do), it's hard to find a fulfilling relationship. I don't think that anyone should have to deal with disrespectful behavior, especially with a person who is selfish. That is a decision up to them. I also think it's not a healthy view of a relationship to expect the person to leave at anymore and being forced to deal with it when they do shit that hurts you, emotionally speaking. That is a personal decision. 

 

This all comes down the fact that Noah's cheating was only his fault. He keeps saying "he fell in love" to excuse his behavior. Whatever Helen was or wasn't, whatever faults she had, Noah's cheating stemmed from his own insecurity.

 

One last note, the free will argument: if no one truly has free will, then Noah didn't have free will when "falling in love" with Alison. That means none of the choices we make, even those that brings us extreme happiness, are our own. Basically, I just don't buy this. Just because you have free will doesn't mean there aren't consequences.

[izabella]

Bit, I'm not understanding why we can't feel sympathetic to Helen. Okay, she has service privileges because of her money--she doesn't have to struggle as much monetarily. Fantastic. Money makes it easier, but it can't buy happiness. Perhaps the poor woman has a lot of shit compounded unto her grief, but they are both devastated right? Ruch people can feel depressed, lost, etc.

 

From an emotional perspective, I sympathize with her.

 

I feel for her, especially since she is responsible for those four children.  It's not so easy to cope with cheating and a marriage dissolving, while also trying to cope with the kids and their emotional issues.  Helen doesn't seem to have a lot of space to fall apart, while Noah seems to have all the space he wants to follow his muse.

 

I'm curious what would happened if Noah stayed in the brownstone to care for the kids, while Helen found a nice little lake cottage to deal with her grief with only occasional visits with the kids.

Edited November 8, 2015 by izabella

[shelley1234]

This episode while Helen absolutely put in her children in harms way and she should have consequences for that, it did remind me that Noah isn't really a parent and doesn't know how to be one.  Helen wasn't a parent for one day.  He's not a parent all the time.  My first reaction was when he didn't stay with the kids in the Brownstone.  He doesn't have a home that can fit them and it is THEIR home, so suck it up...sleep on the couch and spend the night with your children in their home.  But NO...he drives them out to Jersey to stay at his sister's place.  Then when they get there and his children are actually enjoying spending time with people who aren't made of suck....but then Noah hears some feedback about his life that he doesn't like and so he has a tantrum and pulls his children from a good family experience.  Then he puts them in a crappy hotel and can't even stay with them, but goes outside to have a beer with his girlfriend, who isn't even supposed to be there.  

[ShellSeeker]

Finally catching up on this season. In my view, neither Noah nor Helen covered themselves with glory in this episode. I think they both acted pretty stupidly and selfishly. 

 

Noah -- well, I really can't stand him because he is so self-absorbed. Going to his sister's house, then leaving after what -- half an hour -- because he got mad because she called him on his bullshit is just one glaring example. Like so many others have said, all his memories somehow make him the martyr or the wronged party, and he thinks that everyone should feel sorry for him. I'm getting to the point of having a hard time watching any of his scenes, because he's such a narcissist.

 

And Helen -- she did what she did because she wants to see herself, and wants to prove, that she's the better parent. Yeah, she thought she had the day to herself so she tossed back some cocktails and then got stoned. Nothing wrong with that. What was wrong was her decision to go pick up her kids when she was completely inebriated. Sure, you could say that she wasn't thinking clearly, but she was coherent enough to get to the hair salon. There were many other choices she could have made. She could have called her mom (although maybe her mom wasn't in town? I didn't catch if she was or not). She could have called her assistant, told her to close the store, and go pick up her kids. She could have called the manager of the day camp where her kids were and just been honest and said, "I'm so sorry, I got my days mixed up and thought my husband was picking the kids up. I've had a few cocktails and I'm in no condition to drive. I need some time to drink a bunch of coffee and pull myself together." And then paid the late pick up fees or whatever. Or she could have called Noah and when he bitched about not being able to help her out, said, "Well, I'm shitfaced. So the kids can either get in the car with their drunk mother, or their father can stop being a selfish asshole for 5 minutes and get them home safely. Up to you." And I would have found any of those options more believable than what she did. I think that's why I'm having such a hard time feeling any sympathy for her. I've not always been a huge Helen fan, but she's always been pretty responsible. So I don't think what she did was realistic -- it was like it was done just to advance the story.

[JasmineFlower]

Reading through the comments, I find the level of hate for Noah somewhat fascinating. Not because I don't get it based on his actions, but because of the total dismissal of all things Helen and how the blame is solely placed on him. Even when there is cheating, it largely takes two people for a marriage to fail. She's not strictly the damsel in distress, wronged wife that so many seem to think of her as. She's a self-centered, self important, stuck up heiress who thought herself too good for Noah and was shocked he deigned to leave her.  This wasn't something we merely guessed about her, but she said it last season as well. So, I'm a bit surprised with how so many are painting her in nothing but a victim's role this season as if many things we were told last season didn't happen. Max was an ass and quite presumptuous unless a lot more happened off screen than I think, but he was dead right when he said, no one is good enough for her, that is how she thinks about herself. And that's a hard person to make happy.

 

I hope I missed the discussion of it through the comments as well, but Helen's jaded view of things was perfectly captured after she was cuffed and put in the car. In her memory, she was placed in a plush town car as she awaited Noah's arrival after endangering her kids, not a regular police car. The plush town car version of a police car that doesn't exist at all in any form. The leather she was sitting against was amazingly nice and comfortable. It's an extremely clever way to capture how she thinks of herself even in this situation. She's messed up royally. Period. Is being taken to jail, but she's not taking it seriously enough to view her surroundings in as stark a light as they should be for the wake up call that should have been on so many levels. I do feel for Helen, but nowhere near to the level so many others are. She's not the delicate flower so many seem to think of her as this season, and I'm keeping my eye on her, because for my money, she's like the dangerous sleeper agent.

 

I loved the sister and what she said to Noah and think it's spot on. He doesn't seem to want to disrupt his love affair to be a full time parent. But I also don't think he's truly interested in being a sometimes, monthly dad either who becomes an afterthought in his kids' lives. I think this also goes back to taking into account many things we learned last season. Although from reading comments it appears most think of Helen as being the dominant parent, it was clear from the start of the series, they were true co-parents, he was a very present father, in tune to his children. So, it's not fair, despite his callous actions, to just say this is him only saying he wants to be a parent and not actually putting in the work. He seems to want a permanent vacation from his life at times lately, that's for sure. But it's also not okay to act like he's been the also ran in the parent category up to the point of the series premiere. Helen has been doing the legwork recently, that's crystal clear, but before that, it was the two of them constantly side by side parenting.

 

Allison annoys the heck out of me with wanting to be saved by a man. Her "I need you" was perfect yet telling. She thinks she get to stay in Cold Springs without Noah? Why? That's a "writer's retreat" darling. Take the writer away, it's getting occupied by another writer, not the hard-lucked homewrecker who is low on options. You'll be back in Montauk dear, as you should be, fending for yourself since you're a grown ass adult and shouldn't be demanding of your needs over that of minor children. The fast forward of course suggests she won't have to go that route, but it would be nice to see she couldn't be so successfully manipulating of the situation.

Edited February 14, 2016 by JasmineFlower

[millennium]

The writers should have given Noah's dad a little bell to ding every time Noah said something assholey.