Spoiler Discussion Thread

[blixie]

 

I get the feeling we'll also see a lot more of Ray's evolution into The Atom which doesn't thrill me either, but I figure if I can make it through these handful of episodes, I can make it through anything.

 

Whereas that is the only reason I'm going to watch those episode Raylicity, Diggle, and Ray's Super Hero plans being revealed. If I can have Buckle Canary/Arsenal off in the field while Ray/Felicity are geeking it out in the lair I will cope much better with Buckle Canary existing at all.

[Velocity23]

How dare you. If Ray even steps in the lair i am gonna throw stuff.

[statsgirl]

I can see Ray in the Arrow cave more easily than I can see Laurel there because 1. he wants to save Starling City, not just work off his wrath; 2. he has tech skills Team Arrow can use; 3. he respects Felicity, not just what she can do for him; and 4. he can do the salmon ladder..  Four steps ahead of Laurel already.

[wonderwall]

I can see Ray actually HELPING in the Arrow cave unlike Laurel. Laurel just stands there and barks orders. She really doesn't have any skills to actually help the team. This is why I didn't like how she was incorporated into the cave. She literally came in and started ordering people around and acting like she's the boss which isn't cool. Whereas with Ray, I can see him butt heads with Felicity in terms of how to do things more efficiently. I can see her being frustrated with him and I can see him being totally unaware of this frustration until she explodes. See, this is a much more interesting dynamic to see. 

[statsgirl]

Whereas with Ray, I can see him butt heads with Felicity in terms of how to do things more efficiently. I can see her being frustrated with him and I can see him being totally unaware of this frustration until she explodes. See, this is a much more interesting dynamic to see. 

It could actually be very funny to see Diggle and Roy reacting to that too.  Eyerolls and 'children, please' reactions.

 

And then Ray could be all wondering why there's a nightclub above the cave but Thea doesn't know about it, and bumbling around almost getting caught by her.

[TanyaKay]

Alpha male Oliver may not like it but on any given day, Ray would be an asset to the team. Laurel does not bring in anything. Apart from his tech skill, he is loaded with money and if his philanthropic ways are considered, he would not mind lending both his expertise and his money to the team in order to save the city.

I too will take Ray over Laurel any time.

[statsgirl]

Laurel does not bring in anything.

Especially is she's Bumbling Canary, as the EPs say she will be in the beginning.

 

So far, each new addition to the Arrow cave has brought something of value.  Diggle brought wisdom and back-up, Felicity brought tech (and humor), Barry also brought tech, Sara brought fighting skills and knowledge, and Roy brought fighting skills and sidekick, especially if Diggle has to be more careful now that he has a family.

 

Ray could bring tech, organizational skills, financing and his new dwarf star ATOM suit.

[wonderwall]

I mean, regarding what MG said about Laurel bringing something new to the table, what could that mean? That she gets her canary cry? I just have to ask, how does this bring something new to the table? For the past 2.5 seasons Team Arrow didn't need the Canary Cry and I don't believe that they even need the CC in order to succeed in missions. Even if Laurel got her CC, I still don't think she could bring anything new to the table or still be relevant to the show. 

 

Anyone have any thoughts on what else Laurel could bring to the table as BC other than the (in)famous Canary Cry? If not, do you think that she'd be more relevant if she did get it?

[statsgirl]

I think her legal skills would be the most useful, but she could have brought those without suiting up.

[Morrigan2575]

Where did he say bring something new to the table? Is it a new interview? Can you provide the exact quote so that we can have some context.

[wonderwall]

Where did he say bring something new to the table? Is it a new interview? Can you provide the exact quote so that we can have some context.

I did post it in the spoilers only thread but apparently it was deleted for some reason... Honestly, it's so confusing. Why have 2 spoiler threads? It's kind of confusing/annoying. I mean, why fix something that isn't broken? :/

 

But I'll post it again here:

“[spoilers]…What Sara had was expertise and killer instinct, Laurel is gonna have to find a different way to contribute, a different way to be hero than beating people up. She is not going to be good enough at it to get the job done that way. She’s got to find another way…”

—  Arrow EP Marc Guggenheim | Interview with Daniele Turchiano [Crossover Event LA 11/22/2014]

Edited November 24, 2014 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

I think it was in the interview with Danielle T.  I'll try to find it.

 

At the Q&A, AK says there are a couple of big Star labs technology things coming Arrow's way.  It's got to be the Canary Cry.

[wonderwall]

I think it was in the interview with Danielle T.  I'll try to find it.

 

At the Q&A, AK says there are a couple of big Star labs technology things coming Arrow's way.  It's got to be the Canary Cry.

No worries, I found the quote :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

OK, I need some help folks because I'm all confused. Where's the spoiler about Laurel getting a Canary Cry? I couldn't find it in the Spoilers only thread. Or is this speculation?

[wonderwall]

OK, I need some help folks because I'm all confused. Where's the spoiler about Laurel getting a Canary Cry? I couldn't find it in the Spoilers only thread. Or is this speculation?

Right now it's speculation. But how else could she contribute as BC?

[AnyoneButYou]

If Laurel is getting some form of sonic device to get the Canary Cry so she can do battle in the field, that's really lame. Anyone could use it. Give it to Felicity, and it really wouldn't be any different. She can press a button.

 

I don't really want any form of Canary Cry on the show whether it be technological or meta-human, though, so neither option is really fun for me. A meta-human cry would make Oliver negligible and a sonic device without fighting skills to primarily rely upon is lame.

Edited November 24, 2014 by AnyoneButYou

[SmallScreenDiva]

LOL, I'm gonna pass on the question of how Laurel can contribute as BC since I firmly believe she doesn't contribute anything to the show in any capacity.

 

Anyway, if new tech stuff is coming to Arrow, I really hope it's improvements to Oliver's suit. Maybe Cisco and Felicity can collaborate on that and new gear for Oliver, Roy and Diggle.

Edited November 24, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[BumpSetSpike]

 

Anyway, if new tech stuff is coming to Arrow, I really hope it's improvements to Oliver's suit

Didn't Amell say he was getting an upgrade to his costume this season?  I remember hearing it when they were comparing his and Colton's Arsenal costumes.

[wonderwall]

“[spoilers] We have an idea coming up where our #Arrow team is facing a meta-human threat…”

—  Arrow EP Andrew Kreisberg | Interview with Daniele Turchiano [Crossover Event LA 11/22/2014]

"What's fun about episode 8 for 'Arrow' is it proved to me, as a writer and a producer, hey, you know what? You can do metahumans on 'Arrow' without feeling like the show is changing its tone too much," Guggenheim 

"It's something that we all sort of collectively realized -- hey, the show can handle that. So that's kind of cool. I might have to amend my earlier comment from the beginning of the year, just because this kind of works." --http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=57315

Laurel getting the Canary Cry is becoming more and more likely if meta humans are going to be a thing on Arrow :/ I actually liked that this show was more grounded. It's different. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

I did post it in the spoilers only thread but apparently it was deleted for some reason... Honestly, it's so confusing. Why have 2 spoiler threads? It's kind of confusing/annoying. I mean, why fix something that isn't broken? :/ But I'll post it again

When I read it I didn't get so much of a team vibe, the whole quote seemed to be more about Laurel then anything else. My immediate thoughts were Manhunter, she'll use weapons/guns instead of martial arts (while still being called Black Canary), my next thought was going back to being a lawyer and contributing behind the scenes instead of playing dress up as her dead sister. I know people are combining both MGs comments about Meta Human threats and Laurel and saying they're giving her the Canary Cry. It's possible but how does "find another way" equate to a genetic mutation? Is she going to run around looking for Green K Rocks? Try to find a radioactive spider or gamma ray explosions? (Yeah totally crossed companies)?

There are so many problems with giving Laurel the Canary Cry and only one reason to because Comics Duh. Issue one, Laurel wasn't in Central City when the explosion happened, she was at the hospital with her father. So how did she become a Meta Human? If they violate the universe canon, they're screwing both Flash and Arrow in order to make Laurel a super special snowflake. How do they expect the audience to buy that Laurel magically develops the same powers that her sister's device performed? Also how do you have a meta human Laurel on the show alongside non meta Oliver and Roy? Yeah, I know, comics but that doesn't mean it would or should work on a TV show. Arrow may now be opened to having Meta bad guys on occasion but there's a difference between a Meta bad guy which forces the Team/Arrow to up his game in order to win and a team member that can just basically show up, scream and beat both normals ans metas without much fuss. Finally what does that say about Laurel? She can't fight as good as the others but that's ok, she's special, so while Oliver and Roy spend hours training and getting their ass kicked to improve, she doesn't need to, she's got powers and that's her other way?

Edited November 25, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

When I read it I didn't get so much of a team vibe, the whole quote seemed to be more about Laurel then anything else. My immediate thoughts were Manhunter, she'll use weapons/guns instead of martial arts (while still being called Black Canary), my next thought was going back to being a lawyer and contributing behind the scenes instead of playing dress up as her dead sister. I know people are combining both MGs comments about Meta Human threats and Laurel and saying they're giving her the Canary Cry. It's possible but how does "find another way" equate to a genetic mutation? Is she going to run around looking for Green K Rocks? Try to find a radioactive spider or gamma ray explosions? (Yeah totally crossed companies)?

There are so many problems with giving Laurel the Canary Cry and only one reason to because Comics Duh. Issue one,

I totally see what you mean. If you actually combine his statement in the interview to his statements in CBR, I think it's quite possible she will get the canary cry because now the EPs have realized meta humans won't change the tone of the show. 

[statsgirl]

My thinking:

 

• the EPs discovered that you can have Team Arrow interacting with metahumans
• they want to put metahumans on Arrow too
• but now Team Arrow needs something extra to be able to fight them
• so Star Labs develops a sonic Canary Cry based on Sara's but better
• and it goes to Laurel because 1. comics and 2. she adds nothing to the Team otherwise. 

[wonderwall]

 

My thinking:

 

• the EPs discovered that you can have Team Arrow interacting with metahumans
• they want to put metahumans on Arrow too
• but now Team Arrow needs something extra to be able to fight them
• so Star Labs develops a sonic Canary Cry based on Sara's but better
• and it goes to Laurel because 1. comics and 2. she adds nothing to the Team otherwise. 

 

Yep, that's basically how I see it going down. 

[Morrigan2575]

A sonic device isn't that big of a deal, to me. Giving her a meta human cry is way more of a show violation IMO.

[TanyaKay]

I think bringing in Canary Cry is the stupidest idea.

What will the cry do? Make everyone deaf and breaking all the windows? Just the attack on QC gives enough business to all window contractors and suppliers, now they want everyone to go bankrupt by fixing their windows after weekly canary cry.

This is so stupid that thinking about it is making me stupid.

[KirkB]

While I like the idea of Arrow being more grounded in reality, and I in no way want Laurel in costume or with a Canary Cry of any kind for that matter, I can accept there being at least occasional meta-humans because of the Flash. Now that people who can turn into metal and run at mach speed exist in the world it's going to be a little odd if none of them EVER come to Starling. I mean, at least some of them are going to be pretty convinced they can handle a guy with a bow. As far as I'm concerned the only real concerns are that they don't show up too often, keep most of the people Oliver fights normal, and that they can't be too staggeringly powerful or how the hell can Oliver reasonably handle then.

[Morrigan2575]

That to me makes sense, obviously people are going to migrate, it wouldn't be surprising if Metas (good and bad) show up in Starling. An occasional super powered could be god because it would force Arrow to elevate his game and require the team to get inventive/creative in figuring out ways to take metas down.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Orion]

Ok, let's say they give her a device that does the canary cry. Why can't Oliver, Roy, or Diggle use it? Why is someone with one skill and a ton of drawbacks out in the field even if they have a device. A device that could be used by any character. She wouldn't be specially trained to use it or have a skill set needed to run it.

 

To me that's like being in a zombie apocalypse with a lighter. Having a tool makes me helpful but it does not make me useful. My lighter gets a fire going quicker but other people could get a fire going 10 different ways. I'm not bringing a skill, I'm bringing a tool and that is something very different. Felicity, Diggle, Oliver, Quentin have skills that others can't fill. Remove one of them and no one can fill that void.  Much like being mechanic or a doctor or an electrician would make me useful in an apocalypse.

 

It's just beyond frustrating because you know the writers are not having these kinds of discussions that we have here or they assume we will hand wave whatever doesn't make sense.

[ban1o]

If Laurel get's the Canary Cry won't that essentially make her more powerful than Oliver though? Like I know it works in cartoons but I don't see how it could work in live action. I don't think she'll get the canary cry.

[BumpSetSpike]

 

An occasional super powered could be god because it would force Arrow to elevate his game and require the team to get inventive/creative in figuring out ways to take metas down.

 

Couldn't Oliver just call on Barry and his team to join them?  Maybe that will be the next crossover event. LOL

[statsgirl]

The problem, as I see it, is that if Laurel gets the meta human Canary Cry, it will knock the show off-balance since she'll have a meta power to take out all the bad guys  (with no real fighting ability) while the others are just fighting for their lives.

 

If it's a sonic device from Star Labs, then anyone can use it and there's no point to Laurel being there again.

 

At this point, it just seems like a lose-lose situation.

[KirkB]

Couldn't Oliver just call on Barry and his team to join them?

 

See, I think what the EP's of both shows are doing with the crossover is basically answering that very question. Whatever tension happens between Oliver and Barry will put a strain on their relationship so that Oliver (who, believe it or not can be a tad stubborn) is unwilling to call on Barry for help and Barry is unwilling to just run down to Starling even if Oliver does ask (Felicity is another matter). Besides, so long as you don't have guys throwing cars or whatever Oliver should be okay with just help from Diggle, Roy and Felicity.

Edited November 25, 2014 by KirkB

[Chaser]

I think they are going to give her the Canary Cry. I'm not a fan for a lot of the reasons that have already been stated, but if they don't they have a Black Canary who can't fight and has no Cry. What's the point of having Black Canary at all?

[wonderwall]

I think they are going to give her the Canary Cry. I'm not a fan for a lot of the reasons that have already been stated, but if they don't they have a Black Canary who can't fight and has no Cry. What's the point of having Black Canary at all?

The point is that the show doesn't need the Black Canary because Oliver and his team are efficient and are doing well without her lmao As of now, the BC is a superfluous character that's merely there to satisfy the 'inner comic fanboy' of the EPs

Edited November 25, 2014 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

It's so stupid because we already had a BC with a totally useful tool in addition to be a badass fighter.

/head desk head dssk

[Morrigan2575]

Couldn't Oliver just call on Barry and his team to join them? Maybe that will be the next crossover event. LOL

What if Barry's busy? This question came up ad nauseam (at IMDb) during both Iron Man 3 and Captain America 2 movie runs. This movie is so stupid why don't they just call Thor/Hulk/Iron Man to help? If they just called X they'd take out Hydra or The Manderin no problem.

Team ups, big guns, are saved for major world ending events. Team Arrow wouldn't call in Team Flash unless the threat was way boyond their ability.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

I don't know if this should go in the Diggle thread because it discusses spoilers but I'll leave it here until told otherwise.

 

But can we talk about Diggle? As much as it's great that he's happy with his little family now, I'm really disappointed that the only storyline we seem to be getting for him is father and husband. So he's getting engaged now. What about H.I.V.E? When are they going to do that? They easily could have paralleled Laurel's need to avenge Sara's death with Diggle's need to avenge Andrew but there's been no movement on that whatsoever. Unless that's what they plan to do with the Diggle/Laurel scene in 310...

[BkWurm1]

OK, I need some help folks because I'm all confused. Where's the spoiler about Laurel getting a Canary Cry? I couldn't find it in the Spoilers only thread. Or is this speculation?

 

At least some of it is speculation based on a comment made during from the producers in a recent Q&A.  They confirmed that Star Labs would be sending some gadgets to the other team.  It's not in the Spoilers Only section.  It's in over in the public appearances thread in one of the later multi part interviews from the special screening of the crossover episodes.  I think it was the 4th or 5th part. 

[Orion]

I don't know if this should go in the Diggle thread because it discusses spoilers but I'll leave it here until told otherwise.

 

But can we talk about Diggle? As much as it's great that he's happy with his little family now, I'm really disappointed that the only storyline we seem to be getting for him is father and husband. So he's getting engaged now. What about H.I.V.E? When are they going to do that? They easily could have paralleled Laurel's need to avenge Sara's death with Diggle's need to avenge Andrew but there's been no movement on that whatsoever. Unless that's what they plan to do with the Diggle/Laurel scene in 310...

 

As much as I hate to say this I think Diggle and even Felicity's stories are just not important to the writers because they are not comic book heroes. They are the average person in the story and the writers don't care to tell their stories except for one or two episodes here or there to placate people who are fans of those characters.  People have been begging for Hive for 2 years now. The same with who Felicity's father is.

 

The writers constantly say that the reason people don't like certain characters is because they are not let in on the Arrow's identity. Which to me is ridiculous. Those characters should be interesting in and of themselves. Black Canary is not a character; it is an alias. Laurel is the character. If you can't make her interesting as Laurel she doesn't belong in the damn story. The same for Roy, Thea, Sin, etc. Oliver is more than the Arrow. Why they don't get that with other characters I have no idea.

 

I was so disgusted with the Laurel has to learn to be a hero another way because she can't fight quote. Isn't that what Felicity has been doing since S1? Hasn't Diggle been Oliver's back up and partner since S1? Why is Roy Harper now taking over that role? It just really brought home to me how the writers view these characters. Name buys agency in Arrow. If you don't have the right one you get one off stories that may be brought up again when the writers feel like addressing it. If you have the right name they will completely rewrite the story to shoe horn you in.

[wonderwall]

The EPs saying that people don't like certain characters (mainly they're talking about Laurel) because they don't know the Arrow's identity is total bull shit. Why?

 

• Moira didn't know Oliver's identity (yes it was later revealed that she did, but we didn't know before that) and she was interesting as hell.
• Quentin doesn't know and yet people LOVE him
• Thea doesn't know and yet more and more people are starting to like her,
• people LOVED Felicity before she knew of Oliver's identity
• People also loved Diggle before he found out about Oliver in episode 3
• people ADORED Tommy and were devastated when he died and yet he didn't know Oliver's identity for a while in season 1.

 

So yeah, NO. People didn't like Laurel because her character sucked, and that had nothing to do with not knowing Oliver's secret. I mean the fact that the character can't stand up by itself without the support of Oliver or anyone else on the show without faltering is alarming in itself. I mean, Laurel has never been likable as a standalone character. She's needed other characters (Tommy, Quentin, Joanna) to prop her character up in order to make her likable and that's just telling of a weak character. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

They said that Diggle would be wearing a costume, but not one we would expect. Some have guessed he would dress up as Arrow in Oliver's absence, but what if its not a costume but a uniform. Maybe Lyla is hurt in the crossover and he lends a hand there. I don't think anyone is going to be impersonating Arrow actually. My guess is the city falls apart and it motivates others (LL and RP) to get in on the action. 

[Guest]

As much as I hate to say this I think Diggle and even Felicity's stories are just not important to the writers because they are not comic book heroes. They are the average person in the story and the writers don't care to tell their stories except for one or two episodes here or there to placate people who are fans of those characters.  People have been begging for Hive for 2 years now. The same with who Felicity's father is.

 

That makes me so angry though. Felicity and Diggle are just as important as the other characters and they deserve respect. I don't know about anyone else but I need there to be people like Felicity and Diggle on this show - people who don't wear masks or costumes but are heroes in their own right. If everyone wears a mask, if everyone is a 'superhero' it just becomes boring. I need that balance.

 

I'm not as bothered with finding out who Felicity's father is right now but I care very much about H.I.V.E and Andrew because that's an important part of Diggle's character that was introduced in s1. They left it wide open with no resolution. You can't do that when telling a story. It's bullshit. 

 

Le sigh. Maybe I should just put this in the bitterness thread.

[statsgirl]

I think one of the EPs said that they were going to move Diggle's HIVE stuff to next season.  Just like first they said we'd have Felicity backstory in s2, and then moved it to s3.  But I think the real reason is that they're more interested in playing with their Flash and metahumans toys than giving us Diggle.

 

At SDCC, Paul Blackthorne said we would see Quentin trying to deal with not being out in the field any more and a blue collar guy who has to do administration now. What did we get of that?  Nothing. Three short scenes with Oliver and the rest has been about Laurel and her issues.

 

The most interesting and complex characters for me (beyond Oliver and Felicity) are Moira, Walter and Quentin.  And none of them know that Oliver is the Arrow, or at least we didn't know that Moira did.  We've barely seen Lyla and I prefer her in the lair to Laurel.  Even Sin has potential.

 

The problem is always Laurel and what to do with her, whether she knows the secret or not.  There is just no place that she fits into as a lead character (i.e. more than their legal help)  without  forcing her in. Think what the Oliver-less episodes  in January could have been for Diggle, Felicity and Roy if the EPs weren't determined to make that Laurel's time.

 

And now Ray Palmer is getting more time than Diggle.  Diggle really needs his own costume and a secret identity. Any suggestions?

[calliope1975]

Diggle really needs his own costume and a secret identity. Any suggestions?

 

Do we have a Diggle thread? Taking my response there - if I can find it. 

[slayer2]

How dare you. If Ray even steps in the lair i am gonna throw stuff.

Can the stuff you throw be his clothes as he peels them from his body because I am soooo down. Visiting down south with Brandon Routh. #justsayin

Edited November 25, 2014 by slayer2

[Carrie Ann]

See, I think what the EP's of both shows are doing with the crossover is basically answering that very question. Whatever tension happens between Oliver and Barry will put a strain on their relationship so that Oliver (who, believe it or not can be a tad stubborn) is unwilling to call on Barry for help and Barry is unwilling to just run down to Starling even if Oliver does ask (Felicity is another matter). Besides, so long as you don't have guys throwing cars or whatever Oliver should be okay with just help from Diggle, Roy and Felicity.

 

SA made a comment that indicated that by the end of the Arrow ep of the crossover, Oliver and Barry would leave on good terms. He said something like, "He's basically buying him a toothbrush and giving him his own drawer." So whatever tension there might be, it's not on a personal level between Oliver and Barry. But I agree with your last point. 

[wonderwall]

I was so disgusted with the Laurel has to learn to be a hero another way because she can't fight quote. Isn't that what Felicity has been doing since S1? Hasn't Diggle been Oliver's back up and partner since S1? Why is Roy Harper now taking over that role? It just really brought home to me how the writers view these characters. Name buys agency in Arrow. If you don't have the right one you get one off stories that may be brought up again when the writers feel like addressing it. If you have the right name they will completely rewrite the story to shoe horn you in.

What name agency though? I didn't know who the hell Arsenal, Artemis, Mia Dearden, Speedy or whoever was before this show and I'm pretty sure 95% of the audience doesn't. Diggle and Felicity are their more original characters and they're the most beloved. Why not stick to that? Because comic characters names don't mean anything when only, what, 40000-50000 people purchase comics every month? Comic readers are clearly the minority in terms of who watches the show. So name agency means nothing in terms of Arrow. Maybe in a show about Superman or Batman, but not a show like Arrow. 

 

Clearly the writers/EPs are screwing this up to keep their comic dreams alive. I so HATE how Diggle and Felicity are being sidelined. I mean, Diggle has no purpose on the show because now Roy is his partner. As for Felicity, it's clear that the other characters tend to use her for her skills to gather intel and then just let her go do whatever after they're done (not even a thank you or a please is involved in asking for help)... It's clear that the essence of these characters are missing. Felicity's wit and charm, Diggle's sarcasm... It's just weird. And I hate all this extra screen time and arcs that could make these characters shine (the characters who barely ever get the spotlight) are being given to complete nonentities, the people who impacted the story, impacted OLIVER the least. ALL so it could fulfill comic book canon. It's just frustrating. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by wonderwall

[Velocity23]

 

Can the stuff you throw be his clothes as he peels them from his body because I am soooo down. Visiting down south from Brandon Routh. #justsayin

I am gonna need  a bucket to throw up also then. The eyes make me scared of him.

[Danny Franks]

50 Shades being in the lair without Oliver's blessing would just be the latest Single White Male step, and the latest desperate push from the writers to get their pet comic book characters accepted. It's kind of laughable at this point, that they keep doing the same thing. It's as though they believe that merely entering Oliver's secret domain validates someone, no matter how shit the writing. Helena, Barry, Laurel and now probably 50 Shades?

 

The idea of Diggle being okay with him being there would be offputting as well. Felicity is obviously too busy thinking about his abs and his crazy eyes.. But man, this show seems to be going out of its way to ruin the Team Arrow dynamic, which is what actually made the show worth watching in the first place.

[Password]

Sooo...this crossover. Will it play on Tuesday AND Wednesday? Or...