Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I completely disagree here. I'll take my thoughts to another thread though.

Quoting myself because I guess this is the right thread. I got lost. LOL.

The difference and it was huge, is that Demon!Dean did not care. He had no caring about anything other than his own satisfactions and desires. He didn't care about hunting or saving people. He killed Lester because Lester annoyed him. Not because he cared about Lester. He was 100% going to kill Sam and he was going to take pleasure in killing Sam. Dean would never have taken pleasure in killing Sam.  It's also complicated because the Mark of Cain created the NEED to kill. If he didn't kill he was going to die before he became a demon. After that he wanted to have nothing to do but exactly what he wanted. I don't see that being like Dean at all.

Dean wasn't hedonistic per se. He took pleasures where he could. And he certainly didn't treat women in the manner of demon! Dean. He had casual sex with consenting partners and maybe didn't call them back. Which is not the same as Dean being aggressively handsy and threatening towards a stripper because he could.

For me, demon!Dean was quite removed from Dean.

Edited March 10, 2019 by catrox14
because mobile posting is...not good

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

episode reached a whole other level of inappropriateness. Unsurprisingly the same writer was involved. (I've read a recap by a casual viewer of Lebanon and he was pretty much disturbed by the flippancy with which John Wayne Gacy's ghost was shown in that ep.) 

Oh don't get me wrong, I HATED the Hitler episode and I complained vociferously about it in the ep thread after it aired. For me, I thought it was awful. My oibt was more to show that Dean IMO isn't particularly snarky after killing a monster etc but snarks before doing it.

I complained about them using Gacy in that episode thread as well, so I do get what you mean.

Edited March 10, 2019 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

(I realize this is the wrong thread, but where should I put it? Unpopular opinions?)

I would assume that this would be the right thread since it's a Dean discussion but it could be put in the unpopular opinion thread. Sorry, this wasn't a helpful answer ☹️

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I felt that line was dropped in for filling a Dean checklist regardless if it felt organic to the story or not. It was forced writing IMO.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Thank you.

[FlickChick]

To me, a large part of the problem is that I don't think these current writers either know Dean's character or even care about it. This lack of knowledge/interest ends up with lines or actions that don't fit Dean's character as we know it. And don't get me started on the OTT slapstick humor, gross eating, or other related behavior that should be long gone from a 40 year old man. 😞

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

And don't get me started on the OTT slapstick humor, gross eating, or other related behavior that should be long gone from a 40 year old man. 😞

I'm quite sick of seeing this also. Along with the exasperated expressions on the faces of Sam, Cas or whoever is in the scene during said behavior.

[PAForrest]

21 hours ago, FlickChick said:

To me, a large part of the problem is that I don't think these current writers either know Dean's character or even care about it. This lack of knowledge/interest ends up with lines or actions that don't fit Dean's character as we know it. And don't get me started on the OTT slapstick humor, gross eating, or other related behavior that should be long gone from a 40 year old man. 😞

I can't say I love it anymore either, it's just plain lazy writing and continues to reinforce the feeling that the writers think Dean is a joke. Unfortunately Jensen has to bear some of the fault for this behavior because he's too damn good at the slapstick, and when he's asked to do it he goes all in. I think Jensen believes it's funny and he really loves playing up the humor. I think we know he gets tired of all the melodrama. So he too overlooks the fact that this shouldn't be a thing a 40-year-old Dean is still doing.

That being said ...

Spoiler

Let's just say you're not going to be happy with this week's episode since, yet again, the writer went there. Complete with the usual pissy reaction by Cas. What are ya gonna do?

Edited March 11, 2019 by PAForrest

[gonzosgirrl]

Not exactly Dean, but oh my, how I want one.

Edited March 27, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[PAForrest]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Not exactly Dean, but oh my, how I want one.

SWOON!!!!!  I want one too! So cute!

[DeeDee79]

12 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Not exactly Dean, but oh my, how I want one.

This is effin adorable. Almost as precious as the man himself! Look at the big green eyes!!

[gonzosgirrl]

10 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

This is effin adorable. Almost as precious as the man himself! Look at the big green eyes!!

He even has the strings of beads!

[DeeDee79]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He even has the strings of beads!

I just took a closer look; they even put in his freckles and the tiny wrinkles on the side of his eyes! 

[gonzosgirrl]

33 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I just took a closer look; they even put in his freckles and the tiny wrinkles on the side of his eyes! 

D'awww!!

Edited March 27, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[trudysmom]

In response to Gonzosgirl in the Media thread, her hope that Jensen's Instagram post is really him being as optimistic as he sounds.  Even if he weren't, he would fake til he made it, for us.  He won't show a sad face, at least not yet, when from what I've read and seen the past few days, alot of the fandom is reeling.  He is such a class act.

Edited March 28, 2019 by trudysmom
Leaving out words is silly

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Not exactly Dean, but oh my, how I want one.

OMG that's fantastic! His eyes are as sparkly as his crown! LOVE IT!

[Res]

1 hour ago, trudysmom said:

In response to Gonzosgirl in the Media thread, her hope that Jensen's Instagram post is really him being as optimistic as he sounds.  Even he weren't, he would fake til he made it, for us.  He won't show a sad face, at least not yet, when from what I've read and seen the past few days, alot of the fandom is reeling.  He is such a class act.

Very true. I also don't think that he'd "dish" much BTS stuff after it's all said and done. Maybe a comment here or there but not much else until a 20 yr reunion or something. After all, he still hasn't talked any about what happened BTS on Dark Angel and that happened almost 20 yrs ago now. He's just too much of a professional to say a lot about things like that in public which is another reason he's so well respected. 

[Myrelle]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Not exactly Dean, but oh my, how I want one.

7 hours ago, PAForrest said:

SWOON!!!!!  I want one too! So cute!

6 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

This is effin adorable. Almost as precious as the man himself! Look at the big green eyes!!

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He even has the strings of beads!

6 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I just took a closer look; they even put in his freckles and the tiny wrinkles on the side of his eyes! 

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

OMG that's fantastic! His eyes are as sparkly as his crown! LOVE IT!

Simply Amazing!!

ITA with all of these sentiments and I want 1 or 2 or 10 also!🤴🤩

[DeeDee79]

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Simply Amazing!!

ITA with all of these sentiments and I want 1 or 2 or 10 also!🤴🤩

We all need at least 10! Or at least one to put in every room 😍

[Myrelle]

17 hours ago, Res said:

Very true. I also don't think that he'd "dish" much BTS stuff after it's all said and done. Maybe a comment here or there but not much else until a 20 yr reunion or something. After all, he still hasn't talked any about what happened BTS on Dark Angel and that happened almost 20 yrs ago now. He's just too much of a professional to say a lot about things like that in public which is another reason he's so well respected. 

IA.

And I further think that, in all honesty, he might even feel like he's said enough already.

He spoke his mind about the marionette fight. 

He let it be known exactly what he wanted out of yet another highly touted Dean storyline that was, once again, chock full of awesome potential for both his character AND for JA the actor, and he let it be known that he felt and hoped that, this time, things would be handled differently than they had in the past in that regard. 

Then, Dabb gave us what he gave us, and they(the Js) pulled the plug on the series. 

And this, coupled with the often stated thought, that they would continue on doing the show as long as the quality(with the writing quality often specifically cited as being a big part of the overall quality) of the show was maintained, makes me feel as if Jensen might possibly now feel like "What else is there to say?"

He seems very much like a no nonsense kind of person to me where this kind of stuff is concerned. 

His thoughts on Destiel ever becoming canon at Jibcon that one year is a perfect example of this. He said what he felt and thought there and that was the end of it as far as he was concerned and I don't think he's ever really spoken of it again.

And I like and admire and respect him for being that way. 

My feeling is that the public reason cited as being the foremost reason for their decision to end things will undoubtedly be that they want more time with their families and/or burn out from the constant travel and late hours and/or possibly even simply the desire for some "change" in their lives-because I'm sure that all of these things were factored in big time, too, and 15! years IS a very, very long time to have kept this pace up for these guys.

And that's no lie, that's for sure.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Myrelle

[Lastcall]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

IA.

And I further think that, in all honesty, he might even feel like he's said enough already.

He spoke his mind about the marionette fight. 

He let it be known exactly what he wanted out of yet another highly touted Dean storyline that was, once again, chock full of awesome potential for both his character AND for JA the actor, and he let it be known that he felt and hoped that, this time, things would be handled differently than they had in the past in that regard. 

Then, Dabb gave us what he gave us, and they(the Js) pulled the plug on the series. 

And this, coupled with the often stated thought, that they would continue on doing the show as long as the quality(with the writing quality often specifically cited as being a big part of the overall quality) of the show was maintained, makes me feel as if Jensen might possibly now feel like "What else is there to say?"

He seems very much like a no nonsense kind of person to me where this kind of stuff is concerned. 

His thoughts on Destiel ever becoming canon at Jibcon that one year is a perfect example of this. He said what he felt and thought there and that was the end of it as far as he was concerned and I don't think he's ever really spoken of it again.

And I like and admire and respect him for being that way. 

My feeling is that the public reason cited as being the foremost reason for their decision to end things will undoubtedly be that they want more time with their families and/or burn out from the constant travel and late hours and/or possibly even simply the desire for some "change" in their lives-because I'm sure that all of these things were factored in big time, too, and 15! years IS a very, very long time to have kept this pace up for these guys.

And that's no lie, that's for sure.

The time was wearing on them but they enjoyed the show enough for it to be worth it. It had to be obvious to Jensen that there was no fixing this mess. The CW wasted no time changing show runners on Charmed and The Flash when they started to tank so if they weren’t going to fix it, why stay? If Pedowitz really was pissed over the spin off debacle maybe he let the status quo remain and let nature take its course. So if Jensen was still engaged and excited he would have signed for 2 more years but but 3 more years like the last 3 probably sounded like hell.

[FlickChick]

2 hours ago, Lastcall said:

The time was wearing on them but they enjoyed the show enough for it to be worth it. It had to be obvious to Jensen that there was no fixing this mess.

Yes, sadly. I wonder how much of Jensen's disappointment with the mess that is this current regime has to do with his character of Dean. I believe he still cares about "Dean" and doesn't want the character to become a joke. Is it possible that his decision was driven by what was being done to Dean as much as any other factor?

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Is it possible that his decision was driven by what was being done to Dean as much as any other factor?

I don't know, it might be time also, because in my opinion season 8 was pretty bad in terms of both Sam and Dean. I was offended on both of their behalf. Sure purgatory looked like it could have been interesting, and Benny, too, but Carver having Dean just dump Benny, blow him off like he was disposable and then act like a whipped puppy, I thought was a low point for the character up to that point. And the beginning of season 9 didn't look much better for Dean either, in my opinion. I mean it ended up turning around by the end of season 9, but for me, if Jensen was going to object or consider quitting due to the characterization of Dean that would have been the time to do it.***

I heard that Jensen wasn't happy with Dean's characterization in season 7, but season 8 made it even worse, imo, and Dean was more dependent than ever, I thought.. So I think that would have been the time to complain / quit if it was solely about characterization. So characterization may be a factor, but I'm guessing there are other things, including family and a desire to try something new before time gets by that are also factoring into it this time that maybe weren't there before.

*** I for sure know that's when I quit for a while. I was just lucky it didn't stick, because I ended up liking season 10 and loving season 11. There have been other shows I didn't give a second chance to once I thought characterization was compromised though. Two biggest examples: Gilmore Girls and The Walking Dead. I never watched another episode of either of those shows ever again.

Edited March 28, 2019 by AwesomO4000

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Yes, sadly. I wonder how much of Jensen's disappointment with the mess that is this current regime has to do with his character of Dean. I believe he still cares about "Dean" and doesn't want the character to become a joke. Is it possible that his decision was driven by what was being done to Dean as much as any other factor?

From what I've read online and on the boards here when Jensen was unhappy with what was done with his character during season 8 ( Purgatory cut short, trials given to Sam after they were supposed to be Dean's SL ) he spoke to the showrunner ( I think? ) and then Carver created the MOC storyline for him which was pretty great IMO. Maybe the combination of the crappy way that he's been written the past few seasons, the disappointing Michael SL and indifference from Dabb when he asked for help was more than he wanted to continue to deal with. I can't say that I would blame him if that was the case. 

[Lastcall]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

From what I've read online and on the boards here when Jensen was unhappy with what was done with his character during season 8 ( Purgatory cut short, trials given to Sam after they were supposed to be Dean's SL ) he spoke to the showrunner ( I think? ) and then Carver created the MOC storyline for him which was pretty great IMO. Maybe the combination of the crappy way that he's been written the past few seasons, the disappointing Michael SL and indifference from Dabb when he asked for help was more than he wanted to continue to deal with. I can't say that I would blame him if that was the case. 

That may be the issue. Jensen could talk to Carver and they would adjust. I bet Jensen has tried to talk to Dabb repeatedly about Dean but got blown off like when he asked for advice on Michael.

[trudysmom]

Mulva offered an ending in the Supernatural Ending thread that suggested Sam wake up next to Jessica, tell her about his crazy dream, and hear someone breaking into their apartment.  

Mulva, Are you a Stephen King fan, by any chance?  Because that's pretty much what he did with The Gunslinger. I devoured those books, counted the days (years) from on book to the next, got so immersed in that world, and those characters, only to have it end with Roland starting over at the beginning.  I felt so cheated.  And he is, for me, the BEST writer on the planet.  I have zero faith that these guys could pull off something like that successfully.

I don't think I've been as "connected" to a character since Roland Deschain, who by the way, Jensen Ackles would be perfect to play, until I met Dean Winchester.  I remember thinking early on in my addiction "He's a gunslinger!"   

I'm not dissing your suggestion, it just brought back lots of angst for me and pretty much my all time favorite book series.  For my favorite tv show to end the same way--ouch!  😯

[DeeDee79]

6 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

Mulva offered an ending in the Supernatural Ending thread that suggested Sam wake up next to Jessica, tell her about his crazy dream, and hear someone breaking into their apartment.  

Mulva, Are you a Stephen King fan, by any chance?  Because that's pretty much what he did with The Gunslinger. I devoured those books, counted the days (years) from on book to the next, got so immersed in that world, and those characters, only to have it end with Roland starting over at the beginning.  I felt so cheated.  And he is, for me, the BEST writer on the planet.  I have zero faith that these guys could pull off something like that successfully.

I don't think I've been as "connected" to a character since Roland Deschain, who by the way, Jensen Ackles would be perfect to play, until I met Dean Winchester.  I remember thinking early on in my addiction "He's a gunslinger!"   

I'm not dissing your suggestion, it just brought back lots of angst for me and pretty much my all time favorite book series.  For my favorite tv show to end the same way--ouch!  😯

I know that this reply was in response to Mulva's post but are you referring to the Dark Tower series? Stephen King is one of my favorite authors as well and I was waiting for the series to be a completed work before diving in. I'm familiar with Ronald Deschain of course because he's been woven into his other stories (as he tends to do with his characters) but the series itself was still on my to-do list. If the payoff is a disappointing ending I'm thinking that I'll just skip it. 

[trudysmom]

13 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

If the payoff is a disappointing ending I'm thinking that I'll just skip it. 

OMG DeeDee I'm so sorry, I should have spoilered that part!  No, don't skip The Dark Tower series, or Roland stories in any book!   The journey to get there is so so worth (for me) the let down at the end. I would, and do still re-read the books, the ending doesn't negate the rest of the story.  Just as I will always enjoy most of Supernatural, because what I already know and love about it can't be erased by the current regime's attempt to tear Dean down.

These writers seem to be trying to re-write Dean's story, take away all that made us love him, his bad-assery and loveability.  King honored Roland to the very end, and while I wanted something different for him, it in no way took away what it was that made me love him along the way.  I wish the same for Dean.  If you haven't already started, read one or 7 of the books, see if you agree that Jensen would make an awesome Roland Deshain.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

If you haven't already started, read one or 7 of the books, see if you agree that Jensen would make an awesome Roland Deshain.

There is no one better for the part.

[DeeDee79]

8 hours ago, trudysmom said:

OMG DeeDee I'm so sorry, I should have spoilered that part!  No, don't skip The Dark Tower series, or Roland stories in any book!   The journey to get there is so so worth (for me) the let down at the end. I would, and do still re-read the books, the ending doesn't negate the rest of the story.  Just as I will always enjoy most of Supernatural, because what I already know and love about it can't be erased by the current regime's attempt to tear Dean down.

These writers seem to be trying to re-write Dean's story, take away all that made us love him, his bad-assery and loveability.  King honored Roland to the very end, and while I wanted something different for him, it in no way took away what it was that made me love him along the way.  I wish the same for Dean.  If you haven't already started, read one or 7 of the books, see if you agree that Jensen would make an awesome Roland Deshain.

Don't apologize; I like spoilers! I haven't started reading yet; I haven't gotten the books. I will take your advice and give them a shot; I will let you know what I think regarding Dean as Roland though I'm sure that Jensen could pull it off.

I agree that the ending doesn't negate the wonderfulness that can be shown in a story before it all falls apart. Besides SPN my all time favorite show is The X-Files. They had some misses throughout the series but most of what we were given before season 8 was wonderful. I still haven't rewatched the later years but it doesn't stop me from loving the show as a whole. I will be disappointed and a bit angry if Dabb and Co. crap all over the rest of what makes Dean so lovable in the final year but I will still be able to rewatch because I love Dean too much not to.

[FlickChick]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I agree that the ending doesn't negate the wonderfulness that can be shown in a story before it all falls apart. Besides SPN my all time favorite show is The X-Files. They had some misses throughout the series but most of what we were given before season 8 was wonderful. I still haven't rewatched the later years but it doesn't stop me from loving the show as a whole. I will be disappointed and a bit angry if Dabb and Co. crap all over the rest of what makes Dean so lovable in the final year but I will still be able to rewatch because I love Dean too much not to.

Ditto!!!

[Bergamot]

On 3/30/2019 at 5:46 PM, DeeDee79 said:

I agree that the ending doesn't negate the wonderfulness that can be shown in a story before it all falls apart. Besides SPN my all time favorite show is The X-Files. They had some misses throughout the series but most of what we were given before season 8 was wonderful. I still haven't rewatched the later years but it doesn't stop me from loving the show as a whole. I will be disappointed and a bit angry if Dabb and Co. crap all over the rest of what makes Dean so lovable in the final year but I will still be able to rewatch because I love Dean too much not to.

Yes, I agree! Well said.

I loved The X-Files too! Even though for me, due to the direction it went, the show ended a couple seasons earlier than what is listed on IMDB. Buffy was another show that, for me, ended before it went off the air for similar reasons. But that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy rewatching those shows (I just recently started a rewatch of X-Files from the beginning, in fact) and as you say, it doesn't stop me from loving them as a whole.

At this point, I can't imagine the show being able to ruin my love and enjoyment of Dean. No matter how bad the writing gets, I love him too much to let them take him away from me.

It's just like the old song goes, "They Can't Take That Away From Me"!   🙂

Quote

The way your smile just beams
The way you sing off key
The way you haunt my dreams
No, no they can't take that away from me

[juppschmitz]

(Is a post mainly about Michael in the right place in this thread? I hope so:)

What infuriates me about the whole season 14/Michael fiasco is that Michael was such a good character. He had so much potential. He had an AGENDA.

He wasn’t just a mwahahahaa! villain who wanted world domination or riches beyond the dreams of avarice or anything like that. Neither was he an obnoxious spoiled brat throwing temper tantrums like our world’s Lucifer.

He wanted to get his father’s attention, he wanted answers. Because God had just left and nobody knew why. Like so many children Michael was left wondering if it was because of something he did wrong.

And now he had to find out that God just doesn’t give a damn, not about his children, not about his creation.

I think he’s rightfully angry.* And there’s a direct link between Dean and Chuck, seeing as how Dean knows Chuck personally and how Dean berated Chuck for practically the same reasons - creating worlds and then just leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

This link, this connection between Michael and Dean could have made an awesome story for season 14. Right up to an eventual final confrontation between Chuck and Michael. 

It could have been so great to see Michael!Dean on this quest. It would have been awesome to see Jensen Ackles play this role. He already gave us a glimpse into Michael!Dean and it was just perfect. It wouldn’t have meant we’d have had to do without Dean - there are multiple ways to show a person possessed by some other entity - Jared did it with Gadreel, there were demons who relinquished power to their hosts, and we had the Michael!Dean mirror scenes.

So why, WHY did Dabb have Jack kill off Michael just as he got interesting? Why, WHY did he think it was a good idea to give this major storyline to a character who came into the show five minutes to twelve? WHY?

(Could it be because Jack is Dabb’s creation and Dabb gets that extra little money for every episode he’s in? Nah, no way…)

*Mind, I don’t think he’s going about it in an ok way…

[tessathereaper]

32 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

(Is a post mainly about Michael in the right place in this thread? I hope so:)

What infuriates me about the whole season 14/Michael fiasco is that Michael was such a good character. He had so much potential. He had an AGENDA.

He wasn’t just a mwahahahaa! villain who wanted world domination or riches beyond the dreams of avarice or anything like that. Neither was he an obnoxious spoiled brat throwing temper tantrums like our world’s Lucifer.

He wanted to get his father’s attention, he wanted answers. Because God had just left and nobody knew why. Like so many children Michael was left wondering if it was because of something he did wrong.

And now he had to find out that God just doesn’t give a damn, not about his children, not about his creation.

I think he’s rightfully angry.* And there’s a direct link between Dean and Chuck, seeing as how Dean knows Chuck personally and how Dean berated Chuck for practically the same reasons - creating worlds and then just leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

This link, this connection between Michael and Dean could have made an awesome story for season 14. Right up to an eventual final confrontation between Chuck and Michael. 

It could have been so great to see Michael!Dean on this quest. It would have been awesome to see Jensen Ackles play this role. He already gave us a glimpse into Michael!Dean and it was just perfect. It wouldn’t have meant we’d have had to do without Dean - there are multiple ways to show a person possessed by some other entity - Jared did it with Gadreel, there were demons who relinquished power to their hosts, and we had the Michael!Dean mirror scenes.

So why, WHY did Dabb have Jack kill off Michael just as he got interesting? Why, WHY did he think it was a good idea to give this major storyline to a character who came into the show five minutes to twelve? WHY?

(Could it be because Jack is Dabb’s creation and Dabb gets that extra little money for every episode he’s in? Nah, no way…)

*Mind, I don’t think he’s going about it in an ok way…

I know so much wasted potential and Jensen was doing such a great job with Michael, on the rare occasions he was given time to play him.  Michael wasn't entirely wrong, even if he was going about it in a very wrong way.  He was full of rage.

Edited April 2, 2019 by tessathereaper

[AwesomO4000]

52 minutes ago, juppschmitz said:

This link, this connection between Michael and Dean could have made an awesome story for season 14. Right up to an eventual final confrontation between Chuck and Michael. 

Are you implying that you would have wanted Dean to sympathize with Michael over this connection? I know I wouldn't have liked that at all. There's a difference between being angry with someone - like Dean was with Chuck - and being so vengeful as to want to destroy everything that person made just to get his attention and/or teach him a lesson. It wasn't cool when Lucifer wanted to do it even if his motivation was a little different, so I certainly wouldn't want Dean to be cool with Michael's plan to do it.

And for me, that would have been the only way for Dean and Michael to "share" is if Dean was in some way cool with what was happening. That wouldn't have been for me. Not that I'm saying that I so far like what happened instead, just that I wouldn't have liked that either.

And there's a problem with the "sharing" idea anyway, because it has to be explained. And the longer it goes on, the more temptation there seems to be to make it be more "mutual" or less forced/awful. That's what happened in the case of Sam and Gadreel, severely lessening what Sam went through.

I wouldn't have wanted that to happen to Dean any more than it appears to have via omission. It would be worse in my opinion if it was textual, though... as in an actual "well it wasn't really any big deal after all now that I think about it. Maybe Gadreel Michael is just misunderstood."***

*** Because the writers who gave us that gem are still around, and could very well have done the same to Dean in terms of Michael.

[juppschmitz]

32 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Are you implying that you would have wanted Dean to sympathize with Michael over this connection?

Not at all. I would have seen it basically as a similar scenario as with Amara. Both Amara and Michael can't be judged by human standards. To them humans are what ants are to us. And yet Dean managed to get through to Amara eventually.

Okay, so it would have been more or less the same story, but it would have been in character fir Dean and it would have been infinitely better than what Dabb decided to do if only because it would have completely bypassed Jack.

Feel free to disagree.

[ILoveReading]

Um...Oh my

[catrox14]

You know, I was rewatching the Nihilism ep and what I adore about Jensen's Michael!Dean was how he used his eyes.  He would side-eye everyone literally and it was so effective! He would have his head facing someone else and then cast a sideways glance at Sam or Dean. It had the weirdest power. I can't even explain it but dammit it was fantastic. 

[tessathereaper]

15 hours ago, catrox14 said:

You know, I was rewatching the Nihilism ep and what I adore about Jensen's Michael!Dean was how he used his eyes.  He would side-eye everyone literally and it was so effective! He would have his head facing someone else and then cast a sideways glance at Sam or Dean. It had the weirdest power. I can't even explain it but dammit it was fantastic. 

The What Could Have Been's!  If only we weren't stuck with Dabbnatural.

[FlickChick]

21 hours ago, catrox14 said:

You know, I was rewatching the Nihilism ep and what I adore about Jensen's Michael!Dean was how he used his eyes.  He would side-eye everyone literally and it was so effective! He would have his head facing someone else and then cast a sideways glance at Sam or Dean. It had the weirdest power. I can't even explain it but dammit it was fantastic. 

Jensen is just a fantastic actor! It's evident in everything he's done. When he was talking about taking some of the "Chris's"roles, IMO he could easily do that because his talents are at least equal to all of them. And frankly better than some of them. His age is similar - a few years older, but let's face it, he's looking fine!!!

[BabySpinach]

11 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Jensen is just a fantastic actor! It's evident in everything he's done. When he was talking about taking some of the "Chris's"roles, IMO he could easily do that because his talents are at least equal to all of them. And frankly better than some of them. His age is similar - a few years older, but let's face it, he's looking fine!!!

My mom, who is a more casual viewer than I am, still feels that watching Jensen act is like watching art, that he's just way too loyal and good for this show. While she loves Supernatural, she agrees that Jensen now being free to do other things can only be a good thing. We'll both eagerly anticipate his future projects.

And we've also had our mutual fangirling moments over the miracle of the Ackles face, that's for sure!

[ILoveReading]

Here is Dean's fight with the Lucifer stuff edited out.

[Pondlass1]

It’s so cool ... and darn effective.. the way Dean kind of curls his arm around their neck  and shoves them to the ground as they’re off balance.  He probably learned this from Michael.  I’ve never seen this tactic in any other fight scene on tv. It’s so cool.

Jensen’s coordinated and realistic during fight scenes. I’m sure casting directors have noticed 😎

[PAForrest]

8 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Here is Dean's fight with the Lucifer stuff edited out.

Everything is better with the Nickifer stuff edited out! Thanks for this!

[SueB]

Thinking about the 'crying in the woods scene' in 14.19, I have about 100 different thoughts on this. 

First, we heard it from Jensen at NASHSPN that it was physically arduous becuase it was f*cking cold as hell in the rain.  And he had to do take after take.  And Bob Singer wanted it cinematic.

Well, Bob was right, it was f*cking cinematic.  But this is one of the few times that I had to work to overcome the effect of the spoiler.  Normally, knowing what's going to happen doesn't bother me.  Nor does the BTS stuff.  But this time, I kinda wish I hadn't known.  All I could think about the first time I saw it was "Dean is really sad and alone, Jensen is freezing his privates off."  

And let me be clear - Jensen doesn't just "cry on cue".  He GOT himself to the state of grief necessary (an emotional toil) and then performed the scene.  Reminds me again of how he suffered in the Hell shot at the end of S3.  

This guy really give us his all.  And I appreciate that.  

But I think I also want to keep that mystery of the "how" until after I've seen the scene first.  Because I had to rewatch four times before I could let go of Jensen's suffering in order to see Deans in the manner Jensen/Bob wanted us to see.  

So... lessons learned.  I may have to cut back on con watching until after the episodes air so I can stay "in the moment" while watching the show.  

[PAForrest]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

But this is one of the few times that I had to work to overcome the effect of the spoiler.  Normally, knowing what's going to happen doesn't bother me.  Nor does the BTS stuff.  But this time, I kinda wish I hadn't known.  All I could think about the first time I saw it was "Dean is really sad and alone, Jensen is freezing his privates off."  

And let me be clear - Jensen doesn't just "cry on cue".  He GOT himself to the state of grief necessary (an emotional toil) and then performed the scene.  Reminds me again of how he suffered in the Hell shot at the end of S3.  

This guy really give us his all.  And I appreciate that.  

But I think I also want to keep that mystery of the "how" until after I've seen the scene first.  Because I had to rewatch four times before I could let go of Jensen's suffering in order to see Deans in the manner Jensen/Bob wanted us to see.

Yeah, I can see that, because I think we usually do hear after the fact how something was shot or what the actor had to do to get in a particular frame of mind. I admit I too immediately thought about what Jensen said regarding the day he shot the scene as soon as it started. Luckily it didn't take me out of the moment.

IMO the biggest problem with it is that it simply didn't last long enough. When Jensen is giving it his all, I will always want more!

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, PAForrest said:

When Jensen is giving it his all, I will always want more!

I agree 100%!!!

[FlickChick]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:43 AM, SueB said:

Normally, knowing what's going to happen doesn't bother me.  Nor does the BTS stuff.  But this time, I kinda wish I hadn't known. 

One of the reasons that I don't read spoilers until after all episodes air - including interviews, Con discussions, as well as the spoiler thread. I gotta say, it's a challenge while engaging on this board. I don't mean people spoiling things, I mean wanting to know!!!

[Pondlass1]

Someone posted this on twitter LOL...

• Jack: is outta control killing ppl
• Cas: literally does nothing to fix the situation but continues to whine "we have to help him"
• Sam: shoots God & literally ENDS THE WORLD
• Fandom: Dean's a villain

[SueB]

25 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Someone posted this on twitter LOL...

• Jack: is outta control killing ppl
• Cas: literally does nothing to fix the situation but continues to whine "we have to help him"
• Sam: shoots God & literally ENDS THE WORLD
• Fandom: Dean's a villain

Not on my timeline.  I see some posts upset that people are blaming various characters but not a single person on any of my SM  timelines is calling Dean a villain.

[catrox14]

50 minutes ago, SueB said:

Not on my timeline.  I see some posts upset that people are blaming various characters but not a single person on any of my SM  timelines is calling Dean a villain.

I read the SPN tag during the episode, which is anyone posting with #supernatural,not just people i follow, and  I saw far more condemnation of Dean for even suggesting that Jack had to die and saying Dean was a jerk for doing it. I saw celebration of Cas speaking his mind to Dean, and even encouragement for Cas and Sam to punch Dean again to save Jack. I saw much speculation that Chuck wasn't Chuck either which.. okay. My point is that the summary above whilst not representative of ALL opinions wasn't that far off what I saw during the two hours I spent on the #supernatural tag.