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S05.E04: The Broken Kingdom


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Although I'm almost afraid of what it could mean if they are purposely insinuating that they got busy in the field... Dark spawn, anyone? 

 

No!  Please, please, please.  Just say no,  writers.  Do not need another baby in this show.  

 

 

But hey, as long as Lancelot gets to be the biggest hero ever! I effin' hate Lancelot, always have. This will not change that fact.

 

Never really was into Lancelot, either... but John Cleese made Lancelot all kinds of fun.

 

 Also, if the untethered darkness could be defeat with a torch of fire, why wasn't Regina lobbing fireballs at it when it consumed her or Emma in the season finale?  Why not just have a big bonfire?

 

 

Yeah, that was a major continuity fail.  I was watching, thinking, "why the hell didn't the idiots back in Storybrooke think of that before this whole thing started?"  Really, I know it was because the idiots in the writers room didn't think of it., until now.

 

The foreshadowing in tonights episode was just insane. The "orphaned" king, the comparisons between Arthur/Gwen and Hook/Emma. 

 

I know this may be farfetch'd but since King Arthur is confirmed not the true king with tonights episode I think Killian is the true king of Camelot and Emma his queen. The fact that they alone overcame their issues while Arthur/Gwen had to be faked says it all.

 

Not sure how I'd feel about that theory.  I'd prefer Emma and Hook's HEA to be a nice quiet non-Savior life in Storybrooke, with the occasional sea-faring adventure aboard the Jolly Roger.  (God, that sounds so dirty now! Hee!)

 

Am I the only one who was wondering about the logistics of how Emma & Hook are going to have sex in a rose field while she's wearing a bright white dress? 

 

 

Can't she take off her dress and lay down on Hook's leather coat? And perhaps these special Camelot roses that grow in a field instead of on a bush don't have thorns. I haven't thought about it at all really...

 

The dress could be magicked clean, maybe?  But the logistics all around might have worked better if Colin was in a kilt...

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I don't have a lot to add except thus far this season is above and beyond season 4. Especially in terms of characterization.

And oh my goodness, my precious bandit Snow. I've missed you so much. Please don't be pod Snow for very long, you're much better when you can be clever and snarky.

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And oh my goodness, my precious bandit Snow. I've missed you so much. Please don't be pod Snow for very long, you're much better when you can be clever and snarky.

It's been so long since she appeared, that my first thought was "Crap. It's Regina in disguise. Poor Snow's locked in a trunk somewhere."

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It's been so long since she appeared, that my first thought was "Crap. It's Regina in disguise. Poor Snow's locked in a trunk somewhere."

Maybe it was Ginny's line reading then, because when she said "She's not coming", I also totally thought we were in for a "it's really Regina" twist.

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I don't know if it was my mood or what, but I wasn't feeling this episode. Way too much Arthur and not enough of the core characters for me. What the hell are Belle, Granny and the dwarfs doing?

 

And what is this fascination with whether Hook and Emma have had sex? Ew.

Edited by Writing Wrongs
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Not sure how I'd feel about that theory.  I'd prefer Emma and Hook's HEA to be a nice quiet non-Savior life in Storybrooke, with the occasional sea-faring adventure aboard the Jolly Roger.  (God, that sounds so dirty now! Hee!)

 

 

 

Hook is a bit too woobified for my liking as it is. Making him a king would just take the character into Gary Stu territory, so hopefully your HEA scenario will play out.

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Hook is a bit too woobified for my liking as it is. Making him a king would just take the character into Gary Stu territory, so hopefully your HEA scenario will play out.

 

I think that he could avoid Gary Stu territory if he turns out to be royalty and such but turns down that lifestyle because his bloodline doesn't define who he is. Similar to how Emma is a princess but I don't think she's ever going to want to live that life given how and where she grew up.  A "King Killian and Queen Emma" ending would just seem really awkward to me, so I hope they don't go there.

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Definitely my favorite episode of the season so far. I love things tying together and questions being answered. I always knew Guin was too in love with Arthur for someone who was meant to love Lancelot instead, now it makes sense. Lancelot quickly saying "Arthur must have used the sand on you" was eye rolling though. Like would that really be the first thought to come to his head after all those years? I also appreciate that Arthur isn't a real villain, just crazy.

 

Side note: They should always make Snow and Charming kiss before anyone does what they say.

Edited by Bluerang1
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I don't know if it was my mood or what, but I wasn't feeling this episode. Way too much Arthur and not enough of the core characters for me. What the hell are Belle, Granny and the dwarfs doing?

 

That's how I felt about this episode too.  I think, for me, it is because I don't know the original stories for any of these new characters, so unlike last year with Elsa & Anna, I'm finding myself getting both confused and bored with all the emphasis on the non-core characters.

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Was I the only one thinking, "just have Merida pull the sword!".

Mind-Rumple just said she needed a hero.  The writers may have tarnished all the heroes in town but Merida is still pure.  Why spend a bunch of time trying to make the old Dark One a hero??

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Hook wants a white picket fence future in Storybrooke *swoon*

And you notice the kind of house she got when they returned to Storybrooke. But how does Hook even know what "white picket fence" is all about? It doesn't seem like a reference that would track for him. Or is it like Netflix, where he doesn't know what it is, but if Emma thinks it's a good thing, that's what he wants?

 

Maybe it was Ginny's line reading then, because when she said "She's not coming", I also totally thought we were in for a "it's really Regina" twist.

I was waiting for that, too. Like Regina had agreed with Charming that they shouldn't trust Lancelot, and switched places along the way. Or else that was part of the whole scheme.

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This episode I liked, so much that I surprised myself. It's not in the 'best ever' category, but I was entertained. It's too much to hope that the writers have learned that less really is more where Regina is concerned, but I would be tickled pink if their 'toning down' of the character became the norm for the rest of the season. Hook and Emma continue to wreck me. The scene with Henry was also very cute. I'm glad they're not over-playing the first crush storyline. Again, less is more.

 

Despite this being one of the oldest and most overdone love triangles in history, I found OUAT's version of the Arthur, Lancelot and Guinevere storyline almost... compelling. I could see that Guinevere loved Arthur and understand why she was drawn to Lancelot. Not to mention it made sense to me that Arthur, knowing from childhood that he was destined for greatness, would eventually get carried away with his own bullshit. Merlin's a bit of a jerk then. He goes to small children, tells them their futures (cryptically) and leaves them to navigate a minefield with no guidance. Of course that doesn't justify Arthur joining Regina, Zelena and Neal in the OUAT sex offenders club.

 

While watching the black goop surround Lancelot and Guinevere save him, all I could think was 'I bet SQ is gonna be all over that "parallel"'.

 

I was getting ready to slam Snow and Charming for days until it was revealed that they'd engaged brains and been proactive. It's a shame the twist was dependant on the viewers believing that these two were still, after dozens of betrayals and nasty surprises, utterly naive and a detriment to their child's well-being.

Edited by october
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Despite this being one of the oldest and most overdone love triangles in history, I found OUAT's version of the Arthur, Lancelot and Guinevere storyline almost... compelling. I could see that Guinevere loved Arthur and understand why she was drawn to Lancelot. Not to mention it made sense to me that Arthur, knowing from childhood that he was destined for greatness, would eventually get carried away with his own bullshit. Merlin's a bit of a jerk then. He goes to small children, tells them their futures (cryptically) and leaves them to navigate a minefield with no guidance. Of course that doesn't justify Arthur joining Regina, Zelena and Neal in the OUAT sex offenders club.

I did not see any precursor of attraction/interest in Lancelot from Guinevere so the kiss seemed out of nowhere to me in OUaT. 

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Why would the Magic Sand do anything to Snow or Charming? According to Rumple, its purpose is to make broken things look as though they are fixed - merely an illusion. So it would do the job Gwen wanted it for, which would be to make Excalibur look as though it were fixed, even if it's not really. 

 

Now, it's enough of a stretch that the dust would appear to make it look as though Arthur and Gwen's marriage was "fixed," presumably by brainwashing Gwen to act as though everything is hunky-dorey between her and Arthur. OK. 

 

But - there's nothing wrong with Snow or Charming. What about them is going to be "fixed?" Apparently this is just some kind of all-purpose magic sand that makes people do whatever the fuck you want them to do. And that's something a lot more powerful than Rumple would be handing out willy-nilly, especially in amounts that seemingly give you multiple uses of it. 

 

The messed up timeline is bad enough, I've already sort of had to just willfully ignore continuity. But within the same episode the magic sand goes from being a broken weapon fixer to some kind of brainwashing/mind control power with unlimited capabilities. That's just nonsense.

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I don't know why, but Arthur is fascinating to me as a character. I like how he's not OUAT's usual mustache twirling, village-destroying psycho, but actually has a somewhat noble goal he's trying to achieve at the moment. On paper, his plan sounds very heroic: he's trying to destroy the darkness. Who could argue with that? If Rumple or that fire-breathing boar from the premiere were still the Dark Ones during Arthur's quest, our Storybrooke heroes would fight right alongside him as allies. It's just unfortunate timing that he's trying to destroy the darkness while it's inside Emma. So I can understand why Arthur wants to do what he's doing, but he's just going about it in a horrible way.

 

Arthur is basically a religious nut, where Merlin is his "god" and he's willing to devote his entire life to doing whatever his "god" tells him to do. It's very Old Testament. Arthur is even willing to put his "religious quest" before his own wife. (And if we're supposed to believe Regina never danced once with Leopold all those years they were married, I'm willing to believe that Arthur and Gwen were never intimate in the past 5 years because of his obsession.) Moses never met God in person, but was able to speak to him through a burning bush where his God gave him some cryptic commands. Arthur has never met Merlin, but is apparently able to speak to him through a tree. Many Old Testament "heroes" were willing to go to crazy lengths to prove their devotion to God, too. Abraham was ready to kill his only son because God told him to...until an angel swooped in at the last second and said, "Just kidding! It was just a test!" It seems like Merlin is throwing the same kind of cryptic nonsense at Arthur, but instead of remaining devout to his "god," Arthur has decided enough is enough and wants to destroy Merlin for putting him through a life of annoying mysteries with only half answers. It's like if Moses decided to snap and tried to kill God because he was sick and tired of wandering in the desert for 40 years without much reward.

 

This episode also set up a lot of interesting parallels between Arthur and Hook. It almost makes me think the casting department tried to find someone similar to Colin because their characters are quite similar. Besides the physical similarities, both men are orphans, have spent years trying to find the dagger in hopes to destroy the darkness, and by doing this quest, they slowly became villains even though their initial quest was heroic. The irony here is that Hook spent at least 200 years more than Arthur trying to find the dagger, but when he's given the option to give up his insane obsession and follow the advice of someone who could be his True Love (Emma inviting him to be a part of something), he takes that offer. But Arthur doesn't take Gwen's offer and continues his obsession to find the dagger.
 

Healing Camelot and making the kingdom whole again is an admirable goal, but he got so focused on doing it magically, like that sword was the only way to do it, rather than actually being a good king.

Healing Camelot Finding happiness and making the kingdom whole again author write her a new happy ending is an admirable goal, but he Regina got so focused on doing it magically, like that sword author was the only way to do it, rather than actually being a good king person.
 
But Regina was presented as being heroic during her quest, while Arthur is being presented as a villain now. TS;TW.


Captain Swan are adorable, but Hook's reaction to Henry's crush was just as good. Colin makes everything better.

That scene was probably the best part of the episode. And yes, Colin is like a good spice—if an episode doesn't taste right or seems a bit bland, just add a dash of Colin and it immediately tastes better.
 

As said above, the "Many Years Ago" and then the repeat Sword unsheathing scene, and then "Years later" (when everyone looked exactly the same) and finally "Five Years Ago" was even more unintentionally hilarious than usual.

I laughed out loud when the caption "Years Later" showed up on screen. It's like they gave up trying to create a concrete timeline, so it's now like "Ehhh...some years later. We don't know how many. Just years."
 

And how does the orphaned stable boy Arthur learn to read multiple languages and write? Minor nit, compared to other things...

I thought that was supposed to show how obsessed Arthur became in his quest to find the dagger. In all those years growing up and ignoring Gwen, he was able to teach himself new languages and decipher ancient documents.
 

And what is this fascination with whether Hook and Emma have had sex? Ew.

For me, it's more about wanting to see a more intimate scene in general between two characters where it's not: a) rape, b) in a crypt, or c) adultery. If those "Ew" scenes exist in canon, then the show should at least be able to show the opposite. That flower scene would have been one of the only healthy representations of sex between two consenting people on the show, which is quite sad considering it's already Season 5.

Edited by Curio
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Why would the Magic Sand do anything to Snow or Charming? According to Rumple, its purpose is to make broken things look as though they are fixed - merely an illusion.

 

I thought it was designed to fix the trust that had been broken between Snowing and Arthur after Lancelot put his nose in the middle of this one.

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This episode also set up a lot of interesting parallels between Arthur and Hook. It almost makes me think the casting department tried to find someone similar to Colin because their characters are quite similar. Besides the physical similarities, both men are orphans, have spent years trying to find the dagger in hopes to destroy the darkness, and by doing this quest, they slowly became villains even though their initial quest was heroic. The irony here is that Hook spent at least 200 years more than Arthur trying to find the dagger, but when he's given the option to give up his insane obsession and follow the advice of someone who could be his True Love (Emma inviting him to be a part of something), he takes that offer. But Arthur doesn't take Gwen's offer and continues his obsession to find the dagger.

 

I'm not sure that is a fair comparison. One of the big differences between Hook and Arthur is that Hook got a taste of his successful quest and found it tasted bitter. He believed he had killed the Dark One and he found out that it didn't change anything. It didn't make him feel better. It didn't make Milah's death hurt any less. It didn't stop the evilness. So, he began to question his goal even before Emma invited him to be a part of something (he had already had his villian discussion with Regina and decided to clue the Heros in on what was going on).

 

Arthur has never had that moment of satisfaction. He's never realized that even if he does fix the broken sword, it isn't going to magically fix everything.

 

To top it off, Hook's goal was selfish. He wanted revenge. Ridding the world of evilness was a by-product. Arthur is fueled by the righteousness of helping the world and he doesn't seem to care much about being the King himself (being King is a duty). With him, ridding the world of evilness is also a by-product, but fixing the kingdom is his goal. So, I think that makes it easier to fool himself. Arthur can justify doing bad things because it is for the "greater good" (many a person has fallen for that trap) while Hook always knew his goal did not involve the "greater good" (and he ended up loathing himself).

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I'm not sure that is a fair comparison. One of the big differences between Hook and Arthur is that Hook got a taste of his successful quest and found it tasted bitter. He believed he had killed the Dark One and he found out that it didn't change anything. It didn't make him feel better. It didn't make Milah's death hurt any less. It didn't stop the evilness. So, he began to question his goal even before Emma invited him to be a part of something (he had already had his villian discussion with Regina and decided to clue the Heros in on what was going on).

Arthur has never had that moment of satisfaction. He's never realized that even if he does fix the broken sword, it isn't going to magically fix everything.

 

I see where you're coming from, but I sort of disagree.

 

With the magic sand, Arthur "fixed" Camelot. He turned it from a village into a kingdom worthy of that name. He could have given up the quest for the dagger and just lived in his kingdom, but the quick fix left him even more bitter.

 

Arthur doesn't see himself as the rightful anything in Camelot, or a hero. I think the parallel here would probably be with Emma in "Lost Girl" when she explained how she felt. Arthur is an orphan whose mother apparently ran out on. He is poor, he is mocked and taunted, and Merlin goes to visit him one night and tells him he will Excalibur out of the stone and he will be king. 

 

Even with her parents, something that feels like home, a shiny Savior title, Emma still felt like she didn't belong or deserve any of that because of her upbringing. I think the same case can be made for Arthur.

 

Where things become dicey is that where Emma would choose love over basically everything, Arthur chose to pursue the thing that made him the most bitter. The sword being whole is what validates every single sacrifice Arthur has made. Except, in the end, it's not really worth it when he's lost everything because of it.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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I'm not sure that is a fair comparison. One of the big differences between Hook and Arthur is that Hook got a taste of his successful quest and found it tasted bitter. [...] Arthur has never had that moment of satisfaction. He's never realized that even if he does fix the broken sword, it isn't going to magically fix everything.

 

I see where you're coming from, but wouldn't the Sands of Avalon somewhat count towards Arthur getting a little taste of what fixing the sword would be like? In Arthur's mind, when he forges the sword and the dagger together, he'll prove to everyone that he's the "true" king and Camelot will be officially fixed. He used magic to fix everything for the time being, but he still isn't satisfied because he hasn't gotten rid of the darkness once and for all and hasn't visually put together the sword's missing puzzle piece. 

 

Edit: Or what YaddaYadda said above me.

Edited by Curio
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OUAT's Merida is just too damn old. Shouldn't she be Henry's age, max? And they could have actually made her a bit more integrated with the plot if she was his age, because then she could have been his cutesy crush instead of random iPod/stable girl (who may have a real purpose later, but as far as I know now, is no one special and thus could easily have been Merida instead).

Merida is the right age. In Brave she's 16 and they make it sound like it has been a few years. Merida and Henry? ugh no. 

I also don't think she's so pure considering she sought out a magic potion to change her mother's mind. 

 

Anyway. This episode has plenty of the stuff I like - adventure and romance. I love when the female characters go adventrueing in their adventure outfits and we had it double with both Gwen and Snow. Hey, there was even an ariel shot of people on a horse. 

I've read so many versions of the Arthurian legends I am totally up for yet another retelling. I like the twist on the Arthur, Guinevere, and Lancelot tale. I like the illusion of Camelot and the idea that Arthur built it with magic. Ever since the episode "Snow Falls" where Snow called David "A real prince charming" I have wondered how genre aware those who live in the Enchanted Realms are. Also how plugged in they are to other story traditions - a torch made from the burning bush?!!!

 

As for the magic sand, I suspect that Rumplestilskin was happy enough to sow chaos in Camelot and was less than honest with what the sand did. I thought it was clever of Arthur to even try to use illusion magic meant to repair an object for repairing a kingdom and relationships. 

 

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I see where you're coming from, but wouldn't the Sands of Avalon somewhat count towards Arthur getting a little taste of what fixing the sword would be like?

 

I don't think so (but I could be convinced otherwise). Hook knew he had reached his goal (he was just wrong), so he got a taste of real success. Arthur is fully aware that everything the Sands of Avalon fixed his fake. It's just his band-aid until he can truly fix the kingdom by fixing the sword. If Hook had just pretended that Rumple was dead when he left town, then it would be the same.

 

The sword being whole is what validates every single sacrifice Arthur has made. Except, in the end, it's not really worth it when he's lost everything because of it.

 

Arthur has totally turned into Captain Ahab and that sword is his white whale.

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Here's the show's "official" attempt to explain the timeline:  https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA

 

Oh brother.  They just made it worse.  Are they saying that time everywhere, including Camelot, stopped?  I mean, time in our world, the world without magic, didn't stop.  Emma grew up, August grew up, Neal grew up.  So, everything everywhere else stopped?  Why did Cora bother with her dome then?

 

That's a hell of a curse.  It didn't just curse all of the Enchanted Forest people, but people across all realms, too.  Wonderland, too, then?

 

Gah.  They make my head hurt.

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...that's the most depressing thing I've seen all day. Surely they have more than that. Back in the day someone made a fifteen minute video organizing the Veronica Mars flashbacks in chronological order. I would like someone to do that.

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Oh brother.  They just made it worse.  Are they saying that time everywhere, including Camelot, stopped?  I mean, time in our world, the world without magic, didn't stop.  Emma grew up, August grew up, Neal grew up.  So, everything everywhere else stopped?  Why did Cora bother with her dome then?

 

The purpose of Cora's dome wasn't to freeze time in the Enchanted Forest.  Cora already knew that was part of the curse that she couldn't stop and that time wouldn't resume until Emma broke the curse.  All the dome was intended to do was to prevent her and everyone else from being transported to Storybrooke and having their identities and memories replaced with false ones.

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The purpose of Cora's dome wasn't to freeze time in the Enchanted Forest.  Cora already knew that was part of the curse that she couldn't stop and that time wouldn't resume until Emma broke the curse.  All the dome was intended to do was to prevent her and everyone else from being transported to Storybrooke and having their identities and memories replaced with false ones.

 

You're right.  I had a brain fart there.  But still... their time explanation is crap.  

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I had with this episode the same feeling than I have had with the previous ones. I don't hate them (in fact, I'm liking a lot of things, like all the scenes with Hook and Emma together) but, at the same time, the episodes leave me a bit cold, probably because there is not enough focus on Emma and her struggle, just her few moments with Hook. Those moments are beautiful, but I would like to see her interacting with her parents. 

 

 

I don't know why, but Arthur is fascinating to me as a character.

Yeah, he is the other thing I'm loving this season. He is an awful person but a great character.

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Yes, I imagine it's already made quite a few heads explode.

Like my head?

 

Where does Percival's story about being a little boy who saw Regina take down his village fit exactly? Is he the oldest child knight ever?

 

Why would you complicate this by saying 5 years ago? The timeline on this show is already very complicates, so why do that? If they're saying this, does that mean Camelot was under Cora Dome too?

 

I hate it when they do that. It's completely pointless! A long time ago is vague enough, that it doesn't bring up a million questions.

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I hate it when they do that. It's completely pointless! A long time ago is vague enough, that it doesn't bring up a million questions.

Especially since they had the vague "a long time ago" type timestamps, and then all of a sudden there was the very specific and unnecessary"five years ago."  What?  

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Overall I was kinda meh on this episode. At one point I actually said out loud, something along the lines of "Blah, blah, blah, let's get on with it."

I felt like maybe I'd missed something? Emma suddenly looks like death warmed over and Regina's behaving like a decent human being for the first time in forever.

All the floral imagery felt a bit...anvilicious, but why? And who doesn't know how roses grow? Seriously, Show?!? WTF?

Glad Emma got a brief respite from Head!Rumple, tho'. CS is the best.

Slightly OT, it's been forever since I learned to ride, but aren't you supposed to avoid approaching a horse from its left side?

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Um . . . Guinevere is growing up in the exact same place as Arthur and the bullying villager children.  Why do we have three entirely separate accents going on?  What?  Huh?  Logic, show, use it.  Or at least fake using it better.

Well, it is a 'broken' kingdom.

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I forgot to mention my take on Merida. It seems we now know the reason (such as it is) for her presence. Really, it seems like our intrepid -feeling no fear : very bold or brave- captain should be the one for this job, but it's Rumple, so no. It seems even as the DO, Emma can't bring herself to use any of her loved ones as a meat puppet. This also minimizes the long-term consequences of her actions. Merida will be gone soon enough, so no awkward future encounters at Granny's.

Edited by Dianthus
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Slightly OT, it's been forever since I learned to ride, but aren't you supposed to avoid approaching a horse from its left side?

 

No, you always mount from the left. You can generally approach from any side as long as the horse knows you're there.

 

 

If Rumple knew about the Excalibur and the dagger, why didn't he go after it? Or is this because he was still trying to find Bae that he decided against it?

 

I don't think Rumpel was trying to snuff out the light though. He wanted Bae and a life with him, so ending the light would end his chance at that. This of course, is why Emma's plan to snuff out the light makes no sense since it's clear she loves Henry and she still loves Hook too. Why would she kill all that was good & light about them? I'm so frustrated with how little we understand Emma's point of view because it makes zero sense.

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I'm a bit conflicted about this episode, though I still think that this season is the best so far after season 1.

I liked the bit of Regina we saw, especially because there wasn't much. I'm glad that Granny and the dwarves got to join the big adventure, but I wish they were put to better use. I'm tired of Grumpy either grousing or doing his Chicken Little impersonation. I loved Captain Swan, and especially the Henry/Violet scene. I appreciate that Hook is taking charge of the situation to get Emma to a stronger, healthier state of mind for fighting the DO.

Speaking of which, WTF with the untethered evilness? How does it operate independently of the DO when Rumple was still the incumbent? And a torch scares it away with little fuss? I can't take this part seriously.

I think I like the twistiness of Arthur and Guinivere, and I guess Lancelot actually is alive after all. I really have to make myself forget my coursework in Arthurian legend when I watch this and just go along for the ride.

Good for Snowing for reacting with emotion (with each other, no less) two episodes in a row! I love having some of the intelligence back in the characters--I've really missed it! It was in such short supply for so long that I was sure that they were behaving as idiots again (as evidenced by the yelling I directed at the TV).

Not sure what I expect from next week, and I'm willing to stay tuned.

Oh, one more nit to pick: seeing the roses growing straight out of the ground like that, and with no actual rose leaves, very nearly distracted me from the lovely moment I was meant to watch. Surely there is another way to stage that scene that won't make gardeners cringe, yes?

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I don't think Rumpel was trying to snuff out the light though. He wanted Bae and a life with him, so ending the light would end his chance at that. This of course, is why Emma's plan to snuff out the light makes no sense since it's clear she loves Henry and she still loves Hook too. Why would she kill all that was good & light about them? I'm so frustrated with how little we understand Emma's point of view because it makes zero sense.

 

This is why I keep wondering if this is really her endgame, to snuff out the light. Whether she needs the sword for good or evil, she still needs someone to pull it out for her. Her sitting there with the rose makes me question her long term plans.

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Oh, one more nit to pick: seeing the roses growing straight out of the ground like that, and with no actual rose leaves, very nearly distracted me from the lovely moment I was meant to watch. Surely there is another way to stage that scene that won't make gardeners cringe, yes?

 

Ahh, I was wondering why it looked so strange.  Thanks for clarifying!

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Oh, one more nit to pick: seeing the roses growing straight out of the ground like that, and with no actual rose leaves, very nearly distracted me from the lovely moment I was meant to watch. Surely there is another way to stage that scene that won't make gardeners cringe, yes?

 

I interpreted that scene as being a field full of whatever Guin was calling that flower... Mist-something-or-other... ie:  not meant to be a rose, but using roses as the actors for the flower in question.  So, I didn't much mind how they made the actual plant look.  It was some flower only known in Camelot, in my head.  I also assumed Mist-something doesn't have thorns... because... ouch.

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This is why I keep wondering if this is really her endgame, to snuff out the light. Whether she needs the sword for good or evil, she still needs someone to pull it out for her. Her sitting there with the rose makes me question her long term plans.

 

I was thinking that it's potentially significant that Gold told her she didn't have to listen to the Darkness and do what it told her at the same time she was looking at the flower. Like it's a clue that she isn't doing like the Darkness thinks she is. However, they are just going to string us along on the Emma has an evil plan thing until their shocking twist that it's not Emma's plan at all. Until then, we're stuck believing that Emma's goal is completely stupid and will kill everything and everyone she loves. 

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The purpose of Cora's dome wasn't to freeze time in the Enchanted Forest.  Cora already knew that was part of the curse that she couldn't stop and that time wouldn't resume until Emma broke the curse.  All the dome was intended to do was to prevent her and everyone else from being transported to Storybrooke and having their identities and memories replaced with false ones.

But wasn't there also something about how the ogres had ravaged the land during the years of the curse, so that they'd taken over when the curse broke and people could leave the Coradome? How could the ogres have ravaged the land and taken over while time had stopped?

 

But I guess as close as Camelot seems to have been to the Enchanted Forest, an easy stroll on foot, I guess Cora's dome could have covered just a teeny corner of the Enchanted Forest while covering all the neighboring kingdoms.

 

I am taking that as they have had some off screen conversations, dates, lunches, etc. that we are not witnessing. Because normally a couple discussing a future together for the first time would have one or both of them kind of freaking out for a moment. They both seemed rather calm for it to be oh we both want a future together and we both want it to be a white picket fence kind of thing.

Yeah, I guess I can imagine the #ItHappenedOffscreen conversation:

EMMA: I guess because of growing up the way I did, I had this image of home -- you know, the white picket fence and all. It was what I wanted so much. I thought if I had that, I'd be happy.

HOOK: What possible bearing could the kind of fencing have to do with happiness?

EMMA: It's not about the fence. That's just sort of an ideal, an image of the perfect home. And, you know, it was probably some advertising person who came up with it.

 

But we aren't allowed to have conversations like because we can't have nice things. People can't just talk, and God forbid they remember that some of these characters are from another world and don't understand our world. We couldn't possibly want to see the culture clash between the fairy tale world and our world. Why would we want to see Captain Hook trying to understand the concept of a white picket fence?

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Did some quick little googling to see if Middlemist is actually a thing, and came up with this page.

 

Apparently, it's an extremely rare flower, brought to England from China in the 1800's.  It's a camellia.  Interesting.  So... not just made up for the show then?  Can't believe they'd go to the trouble to find out about some rare flower, but not bother to take care of some of the other stupid details in the show.

Edited by CalamityBoPeep
  • Love 2
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Still digging Arthur as a villain. Beside the fact that he's an organic feeling character and his motivations are realistic and make more sense than other villains...I think what I like most about him is that he has no magic. He's not an overpowered magically user.

It kind of just hit me that we haven't had a non-magical villain (who has a major-ish role) since season 2 with Hook, the Team Rocket wannabes, and King George.

Season 2, people!!!!!

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