S02.E03: 203

[Tara Ariano]

Noah's undying love for Alison leads to serious consequences. Meanwhile, Alison discovers a surprising truth about how to sustain a marriage.

[Primetimer]

In a triumph of hope over experience, Noah and Alison decide they're going to give this marriage thing another go. And Whitney takes the news about as well as you'd expect, which is to say not at all.

Read the story

[DB in CMH]

That was a let down, aside from the last few minutes. You really don't need to continue hammering away at these peoples pathos - we got it. Bring on Helen next week!

[AlliMo]

My abiding love for Joshua Jackson aside, I can understand why Alison felt she had to leave Cole. It's very common for couples who have lost a child to split up, and I can see how seeing the other parent every day can just be too painful of a reminder for some people to deal with. What I can't understand is what in the world she sees in someone as selfish as Noah. Him complaining about his children having to grow up while knowing that hers never had the chance was a perfect example of what an insensitive clod he is.

 

This is the woman you cheated on your wife with, Noah, who was cheating on her own husband with you. Why are you surprised that she's a skilled liar?

Edited October 19, 2015 by AlliMo

[grumpypanda]

I'm bored of Noah and Alison and want more Helen and Cole. I was hoping that Max would casually blurt out "I fucked Helen" between refills of coffee. Max must really want that divorce bad if he's willing to give Noah 50 grand.

This might have been one of my least favorite episode of this series so far. I can't stand that Yvonne and all her nosy questions. Why can't they try to find a new home for Pete before killing him? I thought she was a real mean bitch for making her husband kill his dog and he was a wuss for not telling her no.

Anyway, Noah was completely clueless as to why Alison doesn't want to swim. Her son drowned, that's a pretty good reason, how does he not get that?

I hope Whitney moves in with Noah and Alison and drives the two of them crazy. Good luck enjoying your spontaneous couch sex with your emo teenager lurking around.

I want Helen and Cole back next week. I'm more invested in their characters.

[DiabLOL]

First of all, I'm really annoyed that they showed the first EPs early on the Showtime and then stopped. Either do it all the way through or don't bother. I went two weeks without watching and now I'm sort of cooling on it.

 

Also, I'm not paying attention to the whole Timeline/Memories thing as much. It's too much work to try to pay attention to sweat stains and such. I'm kind of only in it at this point in hopes of watching Noah suffer. 

[izabella]

Interesting that it was Cole's wedding.  Who did he marry?  How did he get his head and life together enough to fall in love again?  Wonder if it was that nanny?

[LoveLeigh]

The scenes with Yvonne and Henry play out like some banter on a sophisticated NY Broadway theater piece. I don't really like their interactions because they both seem too impressed with their own acting. And Joanna Gleason's facelift is too tight for her neck. 

 

I actually find Alison more annoying than Noah. And Whitney is such a brat. The way she talks to her father is horrendous. Joan Crawford would have slapped her face. Veda much? 

Edited October 19, 2015 by DakotaLavender

[ShortyMac]

I'm bored of Noah and Alison and want more Helen and Cole.

 

Me, too. I came here for Maura Tierney. Love her.

 

New here. I binge-watched up to 02x02 in three days. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and analysis for all of the episodes.

[DiabLOL]

I hate Yvonne and Robert so much. First it was the ridiculous prying and then the dog! WTF? Also did Henry kill Pete? Did he injure him and leave him to suffer to death in horrible pain or did he fake kill him and only shoot so he could lie to Yvonne (I'm sorry but the actress has a terrible facelift. Jesus. She looks like potatoes we carved in grade four art class to make potato prints with)?

Edited October 19, 2015 by DiabLOL

[briochetwist]

Everytime I watch this show, I'm amazed at how selfish all of these characters are.  

 

Whitney rips into Allison and Noah, and I actually enjoyed that, but because she wants to live with her dad to be near Scotty, she'll overlook the heartbreak and devastation that they've caused.

 

Max lends Noah $50,000 to get a divorce for the sole purpose of hooking up with Helen.

 

Noah, in what is not a shocking move, puts himself first and coerces Whitney to keep quiet about the ring so that she can move in with them.  Getting your teen to lie is reprehensible, and as if they actually have any intention of taking Whitney in.  The only reason they have a relationship at all is because they've run away from real life and are living in a guest house with no family, friends or responsibilities to deal with.  Add his four kids to the mix and the love dies...

 

I miss Cole and Helen, at least they're somewhat likeable.

[Glade]

This was a great episode, I really felt Noah and Alison's struggles, to be together, to communicate, to make something out of this that redeems it.  Their memories didn't really conflict so much here, as much as their recollections fill in each others gaps. 

 

Yvonne really is revolting, and yes, they could have just tried to re-home the poor dog, but I'm glad the creature wasn't shot in the end.  Either way, it's a pretty toxic work environment that Alison has to put up with.  It's good to know, at least, that Scotty wasn't marrying Whitney at his wedding.  Helen really needs to tell her mother to use her abundant wealth to find someplace else to live!  She is toxic, she has always hated and emotionally abused her son inlaw in front of the kids, I don't think they need to be around her right now.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Glade

[DiabLOL]

 Helen really needs to tell her mother to use her abundant wealth to find someplace else to live!  She is toxic, she has always hated and emotionally abused her son inlaw in front of the kids, I don't think they need to be around her right now.

 

My first memory of Helen's mother is of her telling the painfully thin Whitney: "Lose ten pounds and I'll take you to Paris!"

[ScoobieDoobs]

So wait, was Robert peeping on Noah banging Allsion in the pool & Allison saw him?  Okaaay.  Idk, every time we get a scene of Robert & Allison together I get a creepy vibe.  I think poor Joanna Gleason's facelift needs to settle some more.  It looks like it hurts for her to speak.

 

And Whitney sure is the crazy teen from hell.  I liked it, but in Noah's version she was pretty OTT.  Well, actually she was sooo OTT in both versions.  The way she burst into Yvonne's home & she spoke to her so rudely?  That was nuts.  And the way she abruptly turned so loony & dumped out Allison's coffee (in Allison's version) after she refused to give her Scotty's number?  Man, that skeered me.  I thought the girl was gonna turn into Freddy Krueger!  

 

Oh, she totally mowed down Scotty -- and with that same crazed look she gave Allison while she was dumping out her coffee.

 

Is it just me, or is Max the kind of total douchebag/jackass ya wanna kick in the balls (hard, really, really hard) -- just cuz?  

Edited October 19, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Blakeston]

Why can't they try to find a new home for Pete before killing him? I thought she was a real mean bitch for making her husband kill his dog and he was a wuss for not telling her no.

 

The dog tried to attack a child, and is known to do things like kill other people's pets. They knew he'd be put down if they brought him to the pound or shelter. A new home for him probably wouldn't be a good idea.

 

That's not to say I think "I'll just shoot the dog myself" is the best way to deal with that situation.

[runforcover]

My dear! What an episode! LOVED IT, loved every moment of the scene between Allison and Robert. Even though you knew Robert wasn't going to kill the dog, the tension of his pointing the gun and the look on Allison's face! Like who is this man who heard her real pain, and could receive it in some way, but people are garbage and sometimes kindness comes with evil and now there's a dog and a gun...OY. LOVE! Great episode. Also great recap!

[grumpypanda]

The dog tried to attack a child, and is known to do things like kill other people's pets. They knew he'd be put down if they brought him to the pound or shelter. A new home for him probably wouldn't be a good idea.

That's not to say I think "I'll just shoot the dog myself" is the best way to deal with that situation.

I don't remember anyone saying the dog tired to attack a child. I thought he ate some chickens. I took my Ambian before watching so perhaps I zoned out a bit.

[Constantinople]

Perhaps rather than just saying that getting Scotty's new number for Whitney would be inappropriate, Alison should have pointed out that Scotty could risk going to jail for violating the restraining order if he has any contact with Whitney.

 

I don't understand how the head of a book publishing company can't get her hands on a single copy of Noah's first book, even if it is out of print.  If "A Person Who Visits A Place" is in the Montauk library, it can't be that hard to find.  There is this thing called the internet where you can purchase used books.

 

I've heard that opposites attract, but given how different they are, I wonder how Yvonne and Robert got together and how they stay together.

 

Whitney was a bit OTT, but I couldn't help but be amused when Noah accused Whitney of being melodramatic and Whitney responded that of course's she's melodramatic, she's living in a fucking melodrama.

[blixie]

 

So wait, was Robert peeping on Noah banging Allsion in the pool & Allison saw him?  Okaaay.

 

I don't know if you could call it "peeping" when it's own damn pool at his own damn house. Like WTF he walked out side looked toward the pool, and when he realized what he was seeing turned away. Awkward, but not sinister, Allison, so chill the fuck out.

 

I continue to love that in Noah's own POV he's still really shitty, as are his children, Whitney was still bad in Allison's side, but significantly  more palatable and understandable than she was Noah's. 

 

While not much happened in this episode, at the very least it's the first REAL conversation we've seen Noah/Allison have and it's the first time I genuinely believed they loved each other even if I still think they're assholes and the relationship isn't at all rootable. 

 

The girl/woman in Noah's dream seems rather obviously to be Whitney, I'm wondering if she somehow has an argument with Scotty and pushes him in front of Noah's car.

 

 

I don't remember anyone saying the dog tired to attack a child.

 

Robert did concede Pete had snapped at a friends child while visiting them. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by blixie

[truthaboutluv]

I continue to love that in Noah's own POV he's still really shitty, as are his children, Whitney was still bad in Allison's side, but significantly  more palatable and understandable than she was Noah's.

 

 

This so much. Honestly, last night confirmed to me that I'm officially over Noah and Alison. I mean I've disliked them since last season but I was still interested in the story in general. But no longer. I'm tired of their awkwardly long sex scenes, I'm tired of Noah's douchiness, I'm tired of Alison's constant victim face and demeanor, I'm just over them. Meanwhile, brat that Witney is, I was totally with her ratting out Noah to Helen and I totally knew she would when they were talking on the train platform. 

 

YMMV but I felt like Noah came across incredibly manipulative in that scene. "I do want you honey but you can't tell your mom because then you can't be with me so I need you to keep my secrets or your mom, awful that she is, won't let you be with me..." Something about that whole scene just made my skin crawl and I feel like Witney realized this and that's why she screwed him over in the end.

 

I also can't blame her for her anger. Yes she was disrespectful and a brat but this is a teenage girl who all she sees is that her dad abandoned her mom and her and her siblings for this woman. I can't blame her for the way she was talking to and about Alison in Noah's version. The Scotty thing was just horrible but also not surprising. Stupid teenage girl who thinks she's so in love even though the guy is clearly a creepy predator, so not surprised with her attitude but like others I'm starting to think she might be the one who killed him and Noah tried to cover it up.

 

I think it's very interesting that the wedding Noah and Alison were apparently in Montauk for the weekend Scotty died, was Cole's. Alison's comment to Noah that Cole was just trying to be nice is making me think that Cole's version of things when he saw Alison in last week's episode may be closer to the truth. Maybe not every single moment but I cannot imagine the Noah we saw in Alison's version of things last week, inviting Alison (and Noah by proxy I guess) to his wedding. 

[taragel]

I hope it's Helen and Cole's POVs next week and not Helen and Noah. This was a slow episode for me, I'm just not as interested when it's Noah and Allison. They just know so very little about each other and have such little trust between them, as illustrated by that conversation on their deck where he had no clue she didn't like the water because of her son's drowning and didn't notice/ask about Gabriel's stone she was holding. She had better rapport/a more caring exchange with Robert about it, which may have been the point of showing us that scene. Meh.

 

Robert and his wife whose name I'm forgetting (Lydia?)--they're just toxic, eh? I feel like we're obviously supposed to sympathize with Robert much more which makes it yet another scenario/marriage where it seems like the man is the henpecked party (there's Noah and Helen, Helen's parents, etc.). I hope that's not to set up Robert trying to cheat with Allison.

 

Interesting too that she watched him watching her with Noah much like she watched Noah watching her with Cole in the pilot. Have they ever discussed Allison's father/daddy issues?

 

I kind of enjoy how huge and campy Julia Goldani-Telles plays Whitney. She's hell on wheels and I enjoy her mucking with Noah and Allison's guest house getaway. Glad she told Helen. Wish Max had told Noah he's seeing Helen. Hehe. I'm so ready for Noah's butthurt over that.

Edited October 19, 2015 by taragel

[truthaboutluv]

I hope it's Helen and Cole's POVs next week and not Helen and Noah.

 

 

Putting in spoiler tags just in case 

but sorry to disappoint you. Based on the short clips for next week's episode, it definitely looks like it will be Helen and Noah.

[Artsda]

I was surprised the wedding of Cole was the reason Alison and Noah were in Montauk. Alison's version of events with Cole in episode 202 didn't seem like she'd travel to his wedding or be invited, or want to go. The fact they went is interesting and makes me think more to Cole's side of events of 202 is closer to the truth.  

 

Whitney's nuts. She's beyond teen angst but out of control loony in both versions. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by Artsda

[Boundary]

Two immediate thoughts:

Whitney just became the most interesting character.

Ruth Wilson is an awesome actress.

 

This was a great episode, I really felt Noah and Alison's struggles, to be together, to communicate, to make something out of this that redeems it.  Their memories didn't really conflict so much here, as much as their recollections fill in each others gaps. 

 

She even had the same dress in both versions! Choosing each other might have made everyone else's life harder but they won't give each up. Soon after proposing in this idyllic setting, real life came crushing through and Noah faced the prospect of actually not committing to Alison and rejected outright. Alison's reason for committing were more internal, a second chance at life. Jumping into that pool was much more significant than it seemed, it was probably the very first step she's taken towards healing.

 

I thought the writers were storing Alison's secrets for drama later on but she laid them out on the table and Noah didn't balk. This is only the second 3rd episode, so I guess the drama will have to come from his family. Between Whitney's craziness and her grandmother's meddling, not to mention the Helen and Max situation, Noah is going to have all the conflict he needs, so maybe it's wise to make his relationship a bit more serene. I liked Whitney's two-facedness, especially since both POV were so similar we can really see what she was trying to do from both angles. Noah hasn't sussed her out, he thinks she's on his side, heh. 

 

Right from the get go I have had strange vibes from Robert whenever he was with Alison but in this ep he actually came off quite alright actually. He listened, offered an experienced perspective which benefited her and there wasn't a hint of anything untoward which I initially suspected. And Ruth was amazing in that scene. Most of us will remember her from last season in that doctor's office but I was more impressed by this scene. She was restrained and kept struggling with keeping it together, which was appropriate since she was opening with such honesty but to a person she barely knows. Utter brilliance.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Boundary

[Pallas]

I was surprised the wedding of Cole was the reason Alison and Noah were in Montauk. Alison's version of events with Cole in episode 202 didn't seem like she'd travel to his wedding or be invited, or want to go. The fact they went is interesting and makes me think more to Cole's side of events of 202 is closer to the truth.

 

 

Sometime midway in the first season, our fellow poster Blakeston predicted the wedding was Cole's.  Hat's off!

 

While looking for the post in the spec threads (haven't found it yet, but see it was later referred to), I did find Boundary's transcript of Alison's explanation of how she came to be attending herself.  

 

Detective: Sounds like Oscar had a temper on him.

Alison: The worst.

D: And there was no love lost between him and the Lockharts?

A: That's an understatement.

D: So why was he invited to the wedding?

A: You don't understand this town, Detective. We're like family here, we may fight, we may hurt each other but when it really counts, we show up, weddings, funerals, no matter what.

D: I suppose that explains why you were there.

A: Is there anything else you need me for, Detective? I really have to get going.

[OrientalAmish]

And Whitney is such a brat. The way she talks to her father is horrendous. Joan Crawford would have slapped her face. Veda much?

 

I love everything about this comment! LOL @ Veda!

Could Whitney yell any louder about how much she hates Allison outside because I am not quite sure Noah, Allison, or anyone else watching could hear? ::sarcasm::

 

I love how Allison tells Whitney how she wants to be her "friend"..... How so Meghan Edmonds of her!

Edited October 19, 2015 by OrientalAmish

[VioletMarx]

Whitney is a monster but I love anyone willing to call the happy couple out on their bullshit, so she gets a season pass from me. And the fact that she apparently ratted them out to Helen? I'm positively swooning!

 

It's not gonna happen, but I'd pay good money to see Alison cheat on Noah with Cole and go back to him. Not that Alison isn't awful too, but Noah is the wooooooooooooooorstt  /JeanRalphio.

Edited October 19, 2015 by VioletMarx

[Texasmom1970]

Whitney is a monster but I love anyone willing to call the happy couple out on their bullshit, so she gets a season pass from me. And the fact that she apparently ratted them out to Helen? I'm positively swooning!

Whitney and her tirade against them was the only part of this episode I liked. Loved it compared to the book editor lady gushing about the couple in love. She might not be so lavishing in her praise if she knew they cheated and broke up two marriages to be together.

I have a strong love/hate thing going on with this show. Can barely tolerate watching Allison and Noah. Can't wait to watch parts with Cole and Helen!

[Quiche]

I didn't like the episode.  It was pointless and did move the stories along.

I could care less about Yvonne and Robert.  They are two weirdos.  They needed better casting for these roles.  Robert especially comes off creepy.

I miss the Helen and Cole stories.  They won't have their point of view next week since neither character was on this week.

I think Max is a douche bag.  He doesn't see that Helen is not into him.  Some lousy sex amounts to nothing.

The only interesting part was Whitney.  Allison should've just told her that she didn't have Scotty's number.  Allison is somewhat of a dimwit.

[jrlr]

Much as I love this show, I thought this episode was really weak although Ruth Wilson's amazing acting almost carried it AFAIC.  Like a lot of you, I want to see more of Helen and Cole and couldn't care less about the rest of the characters (although I did think that Max's "gift" of $50k to Noah was hilarious - what a weird, doofus-y thing to do!). Whitney is a monster-teen, but still, almost nothing about either version of her behavior rang true to me.  Noah is a weakling and so wrapped up in his own drama that he doesn't even notice anyone else's feelings - including Alison's.  His off the cuff remark about how he doesn't want to have any more children was such clumsy writing: what 45 yr old and 32 yr old who are planning to get married wouldn't have discussed  kids by this point with each other?   The Robert/dog scene was awful and completely unnecessary.

 

And is Alison already pregnant?  The swimming pool scene seemed to indicate not, since she had no problem stripping down to her bikini; but most of the time she seems to be hiding behind her dresses and skirts.

[roomtorome]

I'd move and not tell that daughter where I was going.  Budding sociopath.  Be glad she's not your kid!  Ack!

 

I am not interested in Alison - she feels like she's always moving in slow motion and is just not interesting to me.  

 

But, yeah, what a bunch of awful people - all around.

 

Saying he can't believe kids have to grow up - jesus, how bloody insensitive and he never got it after he said it.  

Edited October 19, 2015 by roomtorome

[Boundary]

Is Noah having premonitions about the accident or is that his imagination on overdrive for the book?

[CleoCaesar]

Raise your hand if you also wish that Whitney had been the one to get run over by a car.

 

[Pallas]

Is Noah having premonitions about the accident or is that his imagination on overdrive for the book?

 

Well, if the latter, then the former.

[beaker73]

What I can't understand is what in the world she sees in someone as selfish as Noah. Him complaining about his children having to grow up while knowing that hers never had the chance was a perfect example of what an insensitive clod he is.

  

I cringed when he said that. He's such a self centered tool bag.

As much as a psycho Whitney is, her tirade is both versions was spectacular. Noah and Allison deserved every word of it. And my money is on her being the driver.

[GeminiDancer]

I'm wondering. Did Alison really tell Noah about Oscar? She does in his POV but not in hers.

 

I was really hoping that Max was going to tell Noah that he was sleeping with Helen. Noah needs to get knocked down a couple of pegs.

[stillshimpy]

Oh my goodness, there was some unintentional (or perhaps entirely intentional) hilarity in Noah's recollection of Max at the diner, flirting with the waitress and Noah encouraging Max to go for it, giver her his number.  

 

Max: Oh yeah. No. No.  Seeing someone.  Seems to be getting serious.   

Noah looks genuinely delighted for Max . 

Noah:  Of course, my own divorce goes nowhere until I can get .....

Max: 50 thousand dollars?  Would 50 grand help?  I'll wire it to you.  Immediately.  If I had a time machine, I would do it yesterday.  As long as you think it is enough.  To, you know, get divorced,  Because I just want to help....you.  Yup.  You.  

Noah:  Wow, you're the best friend ever! 
Max: Oh think nothing of it...or too much about it...or start doing any incredibly simple math that might involve me liking to acquire things.  Mentioning a potentially serious relationship that might go somewhere and practically throwing gold bullion at your head to help facilitate your speedy divorce.  

Noah:  You are just the best and I am surprisingly naive as hell for someone who just had an affair and apparently failed basic life accounting skills! 

Max: *beams at waitress some more while still not getting her number, in the library, with a candlestick, over the dead body of Noah's marriage*

 

Also, first of all, if anyone shot that dog, they'd have discovered my fourth wall breaking abilities in which my screams of outrage could have echoed all up and down the coast of wherever they are, in a great, scarlet wall of condensed fury, eating all dog-shooters and anyone who thought the dog was a cross with a wolf, because I can't abide a dog-shooter, but I really can't stand an ultra dim one.  

 

Apparently Joanna Gleason is so well off and tony that she hasn't heard that animal rescue is even more popular than raising your own chickens to avoid the horror of factory farming.  

 

Whitney ought to get her own show called "Why You Should Want Your Tax Dollars to Fund Planned Parent:  Witness all things that I am and be afraid.  Very afraid."  

 

So still no clue what really went down with that gun waving scene, but Scotty's the guy that ended up with a restraining order?  

 

Dear Anything that Listen's in the Universe:  Please don't let Scotty be one of the POV's we are eventually treated to...unless it is just a recurring dream of Noah, or Whitney or a Deer mowing him down.  And then the dog gets to shoot him. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Pallas]

Dear Anything that Listen's in the Universe:  Please don't let Scotty be one of the POV's we are eventually treated to...unless it is just a recurring dream of Noah, or Whitney or a Deer mowing him down.  And then the dog gets to shoot him.

 

For a good cause, I bet the leftover deer from Mapleton, NY could jump the fence between HBO and Showtime, and get to Montauk between 9 - 10 PM.  

 

Along with watching Max text his accountant to launch a Free Noah! indiegogo campaign, another delight of the episode was hearing the infinitely skeptical, utterly urban Richard Schiff pronounce, "A de-e-e-r?"  Like a surgeon brandishing an expertly extracted tumor, for the awed regard of the gallery. 

[SlackerInc]

That was a let down, aside from the last few minutes. You really don't need to continue hammering away at these peoples pathos - we got it.

 

It's genuinely fascinating to me how others can see this show in a diametrically opposite way as I do.  I saw something similar on Twitter, on replies to Sarah Treem's timeline, before coming on here ("The only reason I'm still watching is to find out who killed Scotty").

 

For my part, I could do without the whole storyline involving Scotty, the lawyer (even though I do love Schiff in the role), etc.  But I thought this episode was absolutely riveting until that last few minutes in the attorney's office.  In particular, I feel that adding the characters of Robert and Yvonne this season was a triumph of writing and casting.  The scenes at dinner and on the walk looking for the dog were just tremendous.

 

But then, I am a huge fan of movies like Closer, Margaret, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Another Year, Things You Can Tell Just By Looking at Her, Metropolitan, Blue Jasmine, and Margot at the Wedding.  None of which did much box office, and all of which most people would probably find really dull.  But I absolutely adore character dramas like these (mostly involving upscale Northeasterners or Londoners, and their dysfunctional marriages and/or families), and the scenes with Robert and Yvonne very much feel like they could fit right into the types of films I listed.  

[attica]

The recap's description of Whitney as a human subreddit is my favorite thing I've read all day. 

[truthaboutluv]

While the mystery of Scotty's death doesn't bother me,  I would have been just fine without it in the show. And I appreciate a good character study drama as much as the next person.  One of my favorite books of all times is Remains of The Day where very little "action" happens and is really just a study of these two people. Noah and Alison's story is starting to bore me because I don't care about them. And let's be clear, I don't need to LIKE a character to care about their story. One of my other favorite novels of all time is Wuthering Heights - a book I sum up as the "love story" of two selfish, toxic and self-destructive assholes. But I cared about the story. I don't with Noah and Alison.

 

At this point I just find Noah a self-involved ass no matter which version of the story I'm watching and Alison as someone who loves to play victim. And as people on their own, they're both amazingly boring. Again, Alison seems to have little passion about anything and any purpose really other than being a victim. As someone else said, Cole and Alison getting a divorce made perfect sense. That kind of tragedy is very hard to get past. What I don't get and still don't, is Alison believing her second chance at happiness was with a tool like Noah. And we're onto the second season and I still don't get it. 

[cardigirl]

This episode reminded me of what I thought about Noah and Alison last season.  I've seen plenty of lust between them, but no real love yet. I can understand Noah thinking he wants to marry Alison, I just don't know if they are in love.

 

On Noah's part, he blew up his family and his life to be with Alison, so maybe he figures he HAS to move towards marriage, or else he's been lying to himself about why he did this. 

 

I thought Alison was probably the most honest when she was talking in the woods with Robert, and I actually felt I had more empathy with her then.  (As did Robert.)  One of the most tragic things that can happen to a person is to lose a child.  I don't think she's healed enough from that (if one can ever completely be whole again) to enter into a new relationship, so I think the start of the affair and then the leaving of Cole and moving in with Noah is definitely Alison trying to escape the pain she is feeling. Not a great basis for a relationship. 

 

Whether they can build something out of this lust-fueled escape fantasy remains to be seen. 

[CleoCaesar]

The recap's description of Whitney as a human subreddit is my favorite thing I've read all day.

Reddit has thousands and thousands of subreddits, and a community of millions of people. There are nasty subreddits and supportive, caring ones. Comparing Whitney to a subreddit doesn't make sense, just perpetuates a stale stereotype of Reddit.

[Ellaria]

It's genuinely fascinating to me how others can see this show in a diametrically opposite way as I do.  I saw something similar on Twitter, on replies to Sarah Treem's timeline, before coming on here ("The only reason I'm still watching is to find out who killed Scotty").

 

For my part, I could do without the whole storyline involving Scotty, the lawyer (even though I do love Schiff in the role), etc. 

 

This is a complex show and and there are many different ways to watch it and appreciate it. I am not a fan of relationship dramas. I am not particularly invested in infidelities and marriages and middle age angst. I watch this show because of the use of the characters' memories and perception to inform the audience rather than the typical objective third party viewer. I like the fact that there may not be "truth" in this story as we see it...that life is presented as subjective. Its the narrative style that has attracted me and kept me interested.

 

Rather than worry about who killed Scotty, I wonder why a murder mystery was included in this story. For the most part, Scotty is minor character. It is very hard to care about a character that has received little development and is presented as having few redeeming qualities. Of course, that's intentional. The inclusion of a murder has to be a statement on the nature of truth and the meaning of justice rather than "let's get the bad guy" story line.

 

There were a few scenes in S1 when Det. Jeffries was apart from the main characters. Presumably, those are the only objective moments in the show so far. For the truth about the murder to be revealed - and possibly the truth about these relationships - will may need to see that perspective again.

 

The only character that I loathe is Noah. I actively root against him. In most instances, it is not possible to enjoy show while hating the main protagonist but I don't find it to be a problem here. What I enjoyed about this episode is that Noah seems to be unraveling just a bit. He is a destructive force that rarely takes a moment to self-evaluate. He is a selfish ass even in his own memory. Seeing him with frayed nerves and a bit of self-doubt was a win.

 

I am intrigued by his daydream/vision/premonition (whatever you want to call it) of the hit and run and the woman in white. I don't think that we know enough to deconstruct it just yet. Instead, I am curious as to why this device is being used at all. Is he imagining the ending of his novel?

Edited October 20, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[The Real Real]

Oy Vey, what is Alison doing with him? Am I the only one who doesn't find Noah the least bit attractive? Helen needs to thank Alison for taking the schlub off her hands.

[Babalu]

I am intrigued by his daydream/vision/premonition (whatever you want to call it) of the hit and run and the woman in white. I don't think that we know enough to deconstruct it just yet. Instead, I am curious as to why this device is being used at all. Is he imagining the ending of his novel?

I'm intrigued, as well. My conjectures are that, as you said, his novel's ending is beginning to germinate and present itself during moments when he's not consciously thinking about it (sleeping/swimming or the old "I get my best ideas in the shower" syndrome). If this is the case, I would think we'll see his visions differ significantly from what later happened with Scotty - unless someone who read the novel (Helen? Whitney?) decided to bring fiction to life. That seems uncharacteristically soap-opera-y for this show, though. Then again, maybe there are similarities - didn't Detective Jeffries mention the novel last season and its parallels with the murder (accident?) when he was questioning Noah?

My other thought is that the visions are Noah's memories of the night Scotty was killed and, even though that hasn't happened in the timeline we're watching, it has happened as Noah is remembering that time and has become kind of a subtext of all his memories.

[JenE4]

I watched this show two nights in a row and I fell asleep exact same two points both nights--Allison and Robert standing around in the woods knocked me out, Petey's howl woke me up and I managed to stay awake until Allison and Noah's swim, which knocked me out again. So apparently I missed some deep conversation between Robert and Allison as well as a current lawyer scene? I was willing myself to stay awake and can't believe I fell asleep at the same two points TWICE! There's no way I'm attempting this a third time! So what are the big takeaways? Mind you, I woke up after the show ended and managed to watch a different show wide awake for an hour, so I think Allison's sad, moping act just puts me to sleep--I see her sad, heavy eyes and it's like "You're getting very sleepy...."

[truthaboutluv]

Alison talked about Gabriel to Robert and he listened and pretty much told her the only thing you can say to someone in that situation, that she had a really, really horrible thing happen to her and that he was sorry. 

 

After the sex in the swimming pool, we went back to present time, presumably after Noah's bail has been posted and he and Alison are meeting with his lawyer. Noah insists that he didn't kill Scotty but that he did hit a deer that night and that's what he was on tape paying the mechanic guy to lie about.

 

Apparently he brought the car in but knowing that they were investigating Scotty's death, he figured it would make him look guilty, especially with his history with Scotty knocking up Witney. We finally learn that the wedding they were in Montauk for that weekend was actually Cole's and apparently Noah and Alison got into a fight at the wedding.

 

Because Noah pretty much didn't want to be there, had too much to drink and then took off after they fought, which I guess means Alison can't vouch for whether or not he ran Scotty down. The episode ends on the lawyer (who incidentally looks like he doesn't actually believe Noah is innocent) telling them that they need to figure out who did run Scotty down. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[EyesGlazed]

It's genuinely fascinating to me how others can see this show in a diametrically opposite way as I do.  I saw something similar on Twitter, on replies to Sarah Treem's timeline, before coming on here ("The only reason I'm still watching is to find out who killed Scotty").

So much word!  As for me, I don't much like Helen, which seems to be a definite minority opinion up in here.  Maura Tierney is great, but I think Helen the character is spoiled and brittle and fails to rein in her meddling, condescending parents and her awful children.  I also dislike the way the show, through the other characters, is constantly telling us how hot, sexy and desirable Helen is.  Enough already!

 

Also contrary to others, I like Robert and Yvonne!  I think the casting was perfect.  They are both very New York to me and ring true.  I loved Robert's compassionate and wise reaction to Alison's sad story and really hope the show doesn't make him a creeper.

 

By comparison with the household of horrors that he lived in, I feel some sympathy for Noah.  Though it's true that in recent episodes he's kind of a dick in everyone's version of events, and that's pretty funny.

 

I feel for Alison for her loss and her lost-ness, but agree she is otherwise kind of boring.  No interests, no passions, no ambitions.  But perhaps that is intentional and we are meant to see her as sort of sleepwalking through life because she hasn't been able to move forward from Gabriel's death.  In the "present day" scenes from last season, I think it was mentioned that she had a job?  So maybe she was able to develop interests and/or skills.

 

To me, Cole is hot but meh.

 

And I'm embarrassed to watch all of these people having sex.

[loki567]

Generally I think the Alison/Noah relationship is the weakest part of the series but I liked this episode just fine. I found Noah's speech to Allison at the end of his part touching, two very flawed people trying to form a connection. For the first time, I think I got the relationship.

 

Is anybody else wondering if there's some sexual abuse in Alison's past? It's been much more noticeable this season for me, how nearly every man comes off somewhat predatory in her pov. She and Robert have that nice moment of understanding and then he seemingly peeps on Alison and Noah's sex in the pool. And considering Noah did the same thing with Alison and Cole, I'm wondering if by the end of the season Robert'll end up leaving his wife and making a pass at Alison. 

 

An Oscar mention! I'm hoping he pops up before the season is over, I sorta enjoyed that creepy guy. Somebody said it last season, he almost seemed to have a better understanding of Alison than Noah or Cole because he saw her flaws. 

 

I definitely agree with the murder mystery feeling unnecessary. My guess is that years from now when's the show's done, we'll hear from Sarah Treem that was something enforced from the network. Even the writers don't seem that interested in it.