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S05.E03: Super Powers


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I had hoped that Alison's bedmate would be the During CEO. Or hell, one of the hackers. I don't like compromised Saul. I prefer conflicted and tormented Saul. 

 

I checked off the following stereotypes perpetuated by the show:

-bipolar off meds going banana boat crazy

-non-nuanced pro-Israel American gov't bureaucrat being self-righteous 

-dorky hacker(s) arguing good vs evil

-crazy wall (welcome back!) that is now interactive

-staggering drunk Russian hanging out in weird brothel

-sexy special ops guy running through the woods (absolutely no problem with this one)

 

After nine months sober, did we learn that Carrie's real super power is the absence of any headache or nausea after drinking an entire bottle of vodka? She's about 105 pounds, so this is truly remarkable. At 115 pounds, I could use a tenth of that power.

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Quinn casually offs a couple of terrorists in the middle of Berlin without so much as a baseball cap to partially obscure his face but then once he gets to an isolated woodland area, hunting Carrie of all people, he's got to have a hoody. Yeah yeah I know, reasons. But small things like that irk me the most.

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Obviously I've gone nuts or something but what I saw today was Carrie watching Brody on cameras in his home with his family.  Now I have seen little of the show since my house burned down a year and  a half ago and thus no TV.  The motel didn't have Homeland for the time stayed there, nor did the extended stay for the 2 months I was put up there nor did the temporary housing for 8 months that I then moved to.  I finally got house rebuilt and don't pay for Homeland but hot clear picture this week anyway.  The spoilers written were failiar for the episode I saw but I also saw Carrie watching Brody at his home with his family on cameras, and he is dead, as I remember, hanged.  So is he alive again, and if so, how, or have I dreamed up the long sequences in the middle of season 5.  Have I gone nuts or what did I miss?    Please tell me what is wrong here with my memory or my mind.  Do I need to go to a looney bin or does this mean I missed so much in all the time I have not had access to this show.  Should I order it and pay the big bucks (this was free) or what?  How did Brody go from hanged to alive with the family from dead?   Should I wipe this while show from what is left of mind or what?  Please help.  I may have to go on meds.

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Please tell me what is wrong here with my memory or my mind.  Do I need to go to a looney bin or does this mean I missed so much in all the time I have not had access to this show.  Should I order it and pay the big bucks (this was free) or what?  

 

Micks Picks, I am so sorry to hear of your misfortune. I sincerely doubt that you need to go to the "looney bin," but I absolutely believe that your confusion is as real as it is alarming. These feelings are part of a fairly common reaction to a significant trauma and long-term displacement. I refer to this as the "Rip Van Winkle effect." I'm familiar with it because I've been there -- I, too, lost my home (and everything) in a natural disaster. Though these kinds of emotional effects often outlast the hardship period, it will get better. You might consider some therapy for education and support.

 

So that makes it glitch vs. psychosis = 3:0, as I agree with the others that you must have just tuned in to a repeat airing of an older episode somehow.

 

Check out your local library as an option that's free. They may have the prior seasons for you to borrow, or they may be able to arrange an inter-library loan for you. 

 

Wishing you the best...

Edited by Mei
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I don't really have a problem with Carrie going off her meds again. Bipolar patients do it often. Many feel 'better' in some ways off their meds, just like Carrie was trying to explain. They like the mania. They downplay and ignore the bad parts, the lack of focus, risky behavior, etc because personally they feel better off their meds.

Annoying to watch? Yes. Not at all unrealistic though

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Glad that going off her meds did NOT make her more insightful. Felt the whole "must atone" thing was supposed to go with the Carrie goes to church thing in episode one. It feels like the show is being written by new people who never watched it before. The characters feel different. 

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Laura Sutton said she had two arrest warrants in the US.  How long has she been in Germany?  Last I checked, there was an extradition treaty between the US and Germany.

 

Also, how stupid is Numan to give his name to Laura?  Even if Numan isn't his real name, but just the name he uses in Germany, it's stupid.  Plus, when he called himself Numan, Seinfeld immediately popped into my mind.

 

Is it possible that the arrest warrants are for lower level stuff like Public Drunkenness or Indecent Exposure or too many traffic tickets something like that. Something a big enough deal where her failure to appear in court would make a judge issue a warrant, but not a big enough deal for authorities to bother with extradition?

 

As for Numan, I was also very disappointed that when he told her to call him that she didn't say "Hello Numan".

 

As for Carrie, if your whole plan is to go off your meds with your boyfriend as your caretaker, you should at least have some sort of bipolar episode exit strategy so that when it comes time to take your meds, he can actually give them to you?

Also speaking of meds, she took them and some were supposed to be a sedative, so if that is the case how was she able to stay awake in the forest long enough to wait for Quinn?

 

And as far as the list of suspects go, I am starting to think it would be hilarious and kind of awesome if the person who wants to kill Carrie is either Chris or Dana Brody.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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One item I wanted to question -- I didn't think we saw Carrie IMMEDIATELY spiral into mania after the 3 days -- did she? To me the series of scenes with her and her boyfriend after the diner scene looked to me to be more of taking place over a week or two, which would at least stretch it out a bit more believably.

I didn't love this episode, but I thought it laid some interesting groundwork. I actually felt kind of sorry for Claire Danes, because I think these Carrie scenes are kind of thankless -- no matter how well she plays them, I think they make most people uncomfortable, although to me, that's the whole point of Carrie, and I kind of salute the show for its consistent willingness to go there. I find Carrie intensely lovable but not likable at all, and I enjoy that. (Meanwhile, I definitely don't think Danes is doing those scenes as Emmy bait -- she already has three of them on her mantel, anyway).

 

I have two family members who struggle with severe mental illness, one of them bipolar, so I've definitely seen that side that Carrie displayed here, and one thing I really liked was her admission that she will lose her filter and say absolutely terrible things. I've experienced this firsthand and it's pretty upsetting, shocking, and hard to get out of your head. An "I didn't mean it" doesn't quite fit here because they DO mean it -- that's what makes it worse. They're just sorry they said it.

 

So I found that entire scene pretty painful and believable. Although I did snicker a little at her comments to Jonas, simply because he's so freaking bland and opaque. He seems nice and caring, but I just can't get a bead on him; he's not consistently written (his friendship with the reporter, his shock at Carrie's enemies and deeds despite doing her background checks, etc.).

 

I'm bipolar, I've taken Lithium, and I have gone off of it cold turkey which is what many people with thought and mood disorders do. Sometimes people stop their meds because they think that once they begin to feel better, they think they are cured and no longer need them. Some of us (me) do it out of depression or anger. Others stop taking Lithium (and other medications) because the side-effects are unbearable. And then there are cases like Carrie: people who feel that they can only perform well, be creative, work, or "see" things when they are manic. As for how long it would take for Carrie's symptoms to reappear, it depends on the dosage and how long she's been on it. Stopping cold turkey for three days isn't a sufficient length of time for her symptoms to reappear at all, let alone trigger the type of mania and psychosis she displayed. One thing to keep in mind is that Carrie has done this many times before, so her manic state will be higher and when she crashes to the ground, the depression she'll fall into will be worse than ever. Each time you go off your meds, the mania is worse. The fun parts like being the life of the party, getting a bunch of work accomplished, hyper-sexuality, wild spending, and partying are much shorter and the psychosis emerges sooner. If this show even attempts to be accurate (LOL!), Carrie should be psychotic, hospitalized because of her behavior, sedated, severely depressed and not functioning. The proper and safe way to get off of Lithium is to taper it off.

As obnoxious as Crazy Carrie is, stopping her medications because she feels she is able to see things or do things better, is not uncommon at all. Many people do it. I've done it a few times (and wound up in the locked ward at Bellevue) and I know people who've done it too. Crazy Carrie and people who do this are a huge burden on their families, can get violent, and angry when challenged. That said, I'm glad we've gotten that part of the season out of the way.

I sort of liked this episode. I hate Saul's new jumpoff; I've hated her from the moment she came on screen.

Based on what Saul and the Israeli ambassador said, Carrie has been giving money to and meeting with Hezbollah which the U.S. regards as a terrorist group. Giving material support to a terrorist group lands you in prison for a long time. Killing Carrie would be a much cleaner and safer solution than bringing a former intelligence officer, who's had previous terror connections before, than having the embarrassment and scandal all over again.

Thanks for this beautifully descriptive post about your own experiences -- I've been a family member, but it's always illuminating to hear it from the inside, too.

On the Hebollah aspect, I don't know -- I'm on the fence. Yes, we saw Carrie ask for safe passage for During, using her contacts to do so, and that felt fairly real to me in a lot of ways. And even the money she gave at the meeting -- I guess in the real world I'd be unhappy with this, but it just seems to me that this whole system is so corrupt that even if Carrie had still been CIA, it wouldn't have shocked me for her (or Saul) to hand them money to grease the wheels for safety's sake. I just think they have much bigger things (and sums of money) to worry about. And with Carrie working for During, a billionaire, $40,000 would be like paying a toll road fee or something to him. 
 

Saul sleeping with Allison, coupled with his conversation/pissing match with During in which During basically claimed Carrie for himself, brings up the whole mentor/mentee relationship between Saul and Carrie and casts it in an interesting light. Was he always a father figure to her, or was there ever any sexual tension between them? We're in pretty Freudian territory here, huh? It's as though Allison is just a placeholder for Carrie. (And Saul has his own redheaded lover this time around... coincidence, I'm sure.)

 

I do think you make a great point here about the complex relationship between Saul and Carrie, and that Allison's palpable jealousy of Carrie adds a Freudian layer to the whole thing. It's also interesting that Allison struggles with anxiety and seems to routinely take Xanax -- another subtle parallel? The funny thing is, I do think there is no subtext with Saul and Carrie beyond that of father and daughter (which was why Patinkin's palpable anger when she tried to seduce Saul in the pilot episode was so well-acted -- it felt like incest). I just think Allison is too close to understand their relationship at all. I wish we had more scenes between her and Carrie though, so that I could buy that they were ever really friends.

 

While I'm not sure I buy Saul's many abrupt character changes this season, I can buy his being with Allison (or could), except that, to echo others, the previous conversations between them even within this episode simply don't work, and it all felt like a cheap reveal. The discussions of Allison leaving her post would have been completely different, even in a professional context, if they were sleeping together. Even if they'd had to be oblique, those scenes simply would not have gone the way we saw.

 

So I don't know. While I'm thrilled Saul has finally stopped being a walking carpet for Mira (seriously -- I love Soudhury but what a thankless role), I just don't know if I buy Saul being quite as ruthless as we're seeing thus far this season. I liked that he forgave Alllison -- in the moment, it was a very Saul thing to do -- but then the next scene we have of the two is of her curling up next to him in bed (after passive-aggressively letting him know there'd be no sex)? No big discussion at home about what just went down that day? No tension at all? I don't know.

 

For me, Saul has always been the heart of this show, and I'm just not sure I'm sold yet that he's changed so much in 3 years from the man willing to die last season to spare others, who tried to talk freaking HAQQANI into peace, who is always there for Carrie. I don't like or quite buy their estrangement so we'll see how it goes for me for the rest of the season. I just think that if there's one tie that's unbreakable on this show, it's Saul and Carrie, and their venom and estrangement doesn't sit well with me thus far.

 

Crazy Carrie is a trope of this show and an unnecessary one at that. However, I have seen someone go manic in person before. This show gets it scary close to how it is. In all the tension over the past four seasons, I think Carrie deliberately going off her meds was the scariest thing this show has ever done. Her boyfriend was nuts to go along with the idea and I knew she'd end up refusing to take the meds once she had figured things out. It's very easy to break a promise when you think you know everything.

 

Speaking of crazy sex, Allison and Saul? Double You Tee Eff? Like the rest of the CIA I did not see that coming. Is this a very recent thing or are they supposed to have a history together? I can't see Saul letting Allison take the fall if they were involved. I hope this plot ends up making sense and isn't just for shock value.

 

Speaking of jackets, our intrepid investigative reporter left her cute little leather jacket behind during the fire alarm. She probably figured it was a false alarm but I for one am not letting my leather jacket burn up in a fire! I paid good money for it and if all I have to do is sling it over my shoulders as I'm leaving... Shameful display.

Great post on the episode tension and Carrie's mania display. I totally agree. And I laughed out loud at your description of the reporter leaving her jacket. however, what got me was that she left her LAPTOP. I mean, really? She's already under constant surveillance, you'd think even her regular (unclean) laptop would be something she would guard like gold for a variety of reasons. I just didn't buy her calmly shutting her very compact, portable laptop (shoot, that thing would have fit in her bag), and LEAVING it there in what she had to suspect might be a fake fire drill.

 

When Jonas came back and she had all the photos rearranged in a circle around her, I was really hoping she had figured out who was after her so that going off her meds was worthwhile.

 

Oh, Quinn. I hope that he just drugged her so that he can get her to tell him what the hell is going on. Then again, if he really intended to kill her, he would have just done it instead of drugging her in the first place so I have hope that they will both get ouf of this alive.

I actually felt really sorry for Carrie there, because I was really expecting that she'd figured it out and it would all be worth it, in that way she often does. So the fact that it did no good at all is part of the episode that I found poignant and well-written. While I love the way Carrie's greatest flaw is also her occasional greatest strength, sometimes all that added perceptiveness and paranoia simply devolve into that vortex of mental illness.

 

I think Quinn is absolutely not going to kill Carrie either. I think he's gonna fake a proof-of-death photo then have a sit-down with her to figure out exactly what's going on. And speaking shallowly, now that Rupert Friend is second-billing on this show, I really want that to mean lots more Quinn exploration. He's consistently the most interesting person on the show to me.

 

Saul was the moral compass of the show since its beginning; now he's lost his own.  Apparent consequences: Mira has cut him loose in a way even Saul must accept is for keeps; he's in bed with both Dar Adal and a very talented but even more self-interested operative; he's running Peter Quinn (on empty) as his own stalking horse to political overseers, and as his personal drone; he has no patience for the larger perspective that used to be his hallmark.  

 

What's most consistent about Saul is how personally he takes it whenever Carrie leaves the agency, or threatens to, either to make a life with someone else, or to find peace of mind. Despite his having done the same, for both reasons, a few years ago. His rigid fury when he ran into Carrie at the Embassy -- Saul's spine stiffened and his chest swelled up with wrath; The Bear looked like he was shot and stuffed -- was the most human reaction he's shown all season.

Great insights -- I see Saul in much the same way. I'm hoping we'll see Saul regain that sense of center as the season progresses, as I would be incredibly sad for him to be irrevocably broken. I actually kind of like Allison in some ways, so I hope their relationship is going to prove more complex than it looks right now, when she appears to be a little too transparently willing to go the full-villain route.

 

The scene when Saul confronted Allison in this episode and simply exploded I thought was pretty stunning; I thought Patinkin absolutely killed it. 

 

Alison does seem more than a little obsessed about Carrie. First her friendly suggestion that Carrie take the back stairs out of the Embassy, in order to avoid Saul. (Ahh!) Then the remark, as slowpoked pointed out, about Saul, Carrie and his loyalty. Last week she could barely pretend to have any doubt that Carrie was more than circumstantially connected to Laura Sherman and so, the hacking. And this week, when Numan flushed Laura from the During Foundation offices, Alison was convinced that Laura would be making contact with Carrie -- that's what she was hoping to confirm,  then despaired of having missed. Meanwhile, the other 1,361 hacked documents seemed to be changing hands.  

 

Priorities, Alison.  We all like Saul -- maybe one of us a little more as a career-booster -- but please. What target did you remove from Peter's drop-box, in order to replace with Carrie? 

 

I was disappointed that Allison is so fixated on the reporter as a link to Carrie (and vice versa) because there is so little evidence to support this. I also don't buy that Allison would be rambling casually about the two hour gap when the reporter disappeared "as when she must have met Carrie" to Saul lounging on the bed in the other room. I just think there's still enough tension there that she's not going to be blathering about her certainties about Carrie as a traitor to Saul, of all people. She's blatantly obsessed.

 

I'm liking the season thus far, but am hoping these characters show us a few more shades of grey, which is I feel where the show excels (for instance, I loved what the show did with Dar Adal and Andrew Lockhart. I really hope Allison gets some of the rich character development as well, especially since I think Miranda Otto is very capable of playing that complexity.

 

I'm hoping the reveal about Allison (if it is her) comes fairly early, and that she is proven to be more complex than it appears at the moment. Her transparently trying to take out her (imagined) rival for Saul could be interesting if she's shown to regret it as a snap decision under tremendous pressure.

Last but not least: During is so oddly written to me. He seems like he's kind of in love with Carrie, but also very Mephistophelian, and like he's enjoying warring with Saul for her loyalty (made more interesting at the moment as he is the "good" philanthropist and Saul is more pitch-black this season than we've seen him before). During also plays all his scenes with Carrie as if he's only one second away from making a move on her. It's a very odd kind of tension, especially as Carrie seems utterly oblivious. But I do think that fairly soon, he's going to be shown to be profiting handily from all his "charity" stuff, and to be far more willing to sacrifice Carrie than Saul ever would. Or so I hope.

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Is Quinn killing recruiters?  I realized watching last week that the woman he smoked was doing the very thing Carrie used to before the whole Brodygate.

 

Otherwise, my money is on Allison. I thought she was hinky as hell and then when I saw her with Saul that sealed the deal. I couldn't help but think he was just trying to make a Carrie 2.0 out of her, but she seems much less krazy.

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It took more than three days for Carlie's meds to wear off. She told the BF, I forget his name, she had already stopped her meds before they had their conversation. It's hard telling how long she had been off them, I don't thinks she specified, unless I missed it. It could have even been before the attack on her life happened

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Is Quinn killing recruiters?  I realized watching last week that the woman he smoked was doing the very thing Carrie used to before the whole Brodygate.

 

I'm confused -- Quinn killed a woman who was recruiting teenagers in Europe to become suicide bombers for ISIS (or whatever the show version is). That's definitely not one of Carrie's past jobs. Before Brody, she was infiltrating Abu Nazir's network and the semi-acknowledged expert on him as basically the "Bin Laden" of the show (in a job loosely based on that of the woman profiled in "Zero Dark Thirty").

 

It took more than three days for Carlie's meds to wear off. She told the BF, I forget his name, she had already stopped her meds before they had their conversation. It's hard telling how long she had been off them, I don't thinks she specified, unless I missed it. It could have even been before the attack on her life happened

 

In the conversation at the restaurant, just after they've put her daughter on the plane, Carrie tells Jonas that she went off her meds 3 days earlier. We then see them working on her history and enemies list over what to me looks like a series of days (at least 2 or 3, maybe as many as 5-7?), so I do think it was more like 5-7 days before she began to spiral into mania again. 

 

Carrie may be one of those people who is more susceptible to changes in her meds. It works for me on a fictional level, at least, taking dramatic time compression and artistic license into account.

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This is as far as we've got up to in the UK, and honestly, I'm not feeling this season at all so far.  It's just kind of boring.  But this suggestion:

And as far as the list of suspects go, I am starting to think it would be hilarious and kind of awesome if the person who wants to kill Carrie is either Chris or Dana Brody.

would really make it worthwhile for me.

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Gotta agree that the Allison/Saul reveal made little sense: either she's an experienced CIA officer, in which case she should know that "Catch me, screw me" (usually put in a cruder terms) is the rule or it's a scam cooked up by her & Saul (like his one with Carrie last Season) in which case, why confront her in private about it (publicly dressing down a subordinate makes you a bad boss - which generally Saul isn't - but even good bosses have been known to lose self control when stressed)? Of course, there's option 3: she's a mole (because we know how much TPTB love that plotline - and I couldn't help thinking of Jack & Nina in 24), which I hope isn't true, but... we'll see.

 

I do like seeing Quinn being a Badass because he's so efficient and it's admirably low tech (I guess tracking the call was the highest tech used - and that was entirely believable). But yes, I did wonder if he was going to fake her death (since obviously, Carrie isn't dying - at least until the finale) to help advance the plot. And I didn't think Carrie's rifle was necessarily a high spec sniper rifle so much as a hunting rifle, so being stopped by a vest didn't strike me as too unbelievable (though folks with greater gun knowledge are welcome to correct me).

 

Kel Varnsen  if your whole plan is to go off your meds with your boyfriend as your caretaker, you should at least have some sort of bipolar episode exit strategy so that when it comes time to take your meds, he can actually give them to you?

 

That whole episode struck me as odd, too. Assuming her boyfriend really does care for Carrie and isn't some evil mole (which I'm not ruling out!) then he dropped his watch on somebody he supposedly cares about a bit too easily.

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The problem with this show is that the writers haven't recognized that Carrie is the weak spot. They keep giving her more and more extravagant (and frankly, stupid) stuff to do, and it detracts from what could be an interesting show. Actually, Carrie could have been an amazing character, but her past on this show is so ridiculous now that I can't take her seriously.

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On ‎19‎.‎10‎.‎2015 at 6:51 AM, DakotaLavender said:

The ending with Allison and Saul in bed together made no sense based on their private cold verbal interactions prior to that regarding Allison's job and being sent back to the US. Wouldn't he have explained things to her differently if they were lovers? 

Probably it was only meant to keep the audience in dark until now.

Their relationship makes Allison's try to make a Saul a scapecoat for the Germans look more sinister. And one begins to wonder whether Saul's decision not to punish Allison shows even more that his professional abilities aren't in order.

Spoiler

By trying to find out who wants her killed Carrie failed to see the evident clue: the assassin didn't dare to say his principal's name either because he was afraid of revenge on his loved ones - or it was somehow "shameful" to be hired by such a principal.

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On ‎19‎.‎10‎.‎2015 at 8:09 AM, Brooklyn621 said:

Based on what Saul and the Israeli ambassador said, Carrie has been giving money to and meeting with Hezbollah which the U.S. regards as a terrorist group. Giving material support to a terrorist group lands you in prison for a long time. Killing Carrie would be a much cleaner and safer solution than bringing a former intelligence officer, who's had previous terror connections before, than having the embarrassment and scandal all over again.

It would be really weird to bring Carrie to the trial or kill her for a small matter like that, when she has broken almost every rules for Brody and never got any punishment.

Especially Saul would never do it to Carrie. It was much odder that he forgave Allison who stabbed his back.    

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On ‎24‎.‎10‎.‎2015 at 3:29 PM, paramitch said:

While I'm not sure I buy Saul's many abrupt character changes this season, I can buy his being with Allison (or could), except that, to echo others, the previous conversations between them even within this episode simply don't work, and it all felt like a cheap reveal. The discussions of Allison leaving her post would have been completely different, even in a professional context, if they were sleeping together. Even if they'd had to be oblique, those scenes simply would not have gone the way we saw.

So I don't know. While I'm thrilled Saul has finally stopped being a walking carpet for Mira (seriously -- I love Soudhury but what a thankless role), I just don't know if I buy Saul being quite as ruthless as we're seeing thus far this season. I liked that he forgave Alllison -- in the moment, it was a very Saul thing to do -- but then the next scene we have of the two is of her curling up next to him in bed (after passive-aggressively letting him know there'd be no sex)? No big discussion at home about what just went down that day? No tension at all? I don't know.

For me, Saul has always been the heart of this show, and I'm just not sure I'm sold yet that he's changed so much in 3 years from the man willing to die last season to spare others, who tried to talk freaking HAQQANI into peace, who is always there for Carrie. I don't like or quite buy their estrangement so we'll see how it goes for me for the rest of the season. I just think that if there's one tie that's unbreakable on this show, it's Saul and Carrie, and their venom and estrangement doesn't sit well with me thus far.

I don't understand Saul's development either, but I think that understand, at least a bit, what the writers mean. 

In last season, as a captive of Haqqani Saul wanted twice to die rather than to be changed for the terrorists Haqqani demanded. Twice Carrie refused him (fortunately he doesn't know that in the first time Carrie was willing to offer him in order to kill Haqqani but Quinn stopped her). Evidently this was a great humilation and loss of honor to Saul who was shown an old and  broken man. Because of the video Haqqani had made, Saul couldn't work in the CIA any more.

Then Dar Adal made a deal with Haqqani who promised not to use the video in return for Dar's promise to take him out of the killing list. Dar also promised to suggest Saul for the chief of the CIA. Although that didn't happen, at least Saul got an important job. 

Carrie didn't accept the deal Dar made with Haqqani, and she believed that Saul didn't either. When she realized that he had, she walked out. Plus, the boy with the bomb belt had made her question whether "us" had become just like "them".

From Carrie's POV, Saul has sold his soul by accepting the deal with the "devil". Instead, she has tried to atone her deeds by attending the church, taking care of her daughter and working in Düring's foundation.

From Saul's POV, after Dar had made the deal the Haqqani, the only way to compensate it and perhaps even more, to prove that his life had been worth saving for the realease of the terrorists, was to wage "war against terror" and, deeply wounded inside, he does it now with Dar's methods. His exxagerating strong reaction towards Carrie's job in Düring's foundation is due that he sees it rightly also criticism towards his betrayal of his own principles. 

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