Tim Gunn: Your Fabulous Gay Uncle

[Diane Mars]

@wimpsey98 and @RCharter :

It's probably what I call in my mind a "cultural fracture" due to language, geography and background, because I really understand what you say, but I really don't feel it the same way than you do. But no problem at all : it's cool to share diverse points of view, it gives a better knowledge of each others)

 

EDIT : because fell and feel are not "switchable" words, lol !

Edited October 11, 2015 by Diane Mars

[Julia]

Tim's position here is a veteran educator and "mentor." His behavior was disgraceful in light of either position, JMO, and we've seen him show a remarkable ability to keep his cool in the face of thoroughly shabby behavior in the past, so we know it can be done.

 

I'd also like to know which of the designers doing a marathon series of one day challenges is being lazy and needs to be frightened into working harder by watching Tim go fishwife on Swapnil.

[slothgirl]

For me, it was like when my father was disappointed when I was going the easy way... Soooo disappointed, because he believed in my talent and was furious to see what I was -not- doing of it...

 

In other words, I think that he really liked Swapnil and believe in his talent.

 

I don't think he was using tough love on Swapnil to make him buckle down; going to production or the judges to get him auf'ed says he wanted him GONE, not that he wanted him to succeed.

 

In my real world of work, a supervisor who spoke to an employee like that would have been put on notice.

 

In the Entertainment industry, a lot of things are tolerated that wouldn't be in a corporate environment or most other types of workplaces. I remember choreographers that would scream at people. I had a boss once that would not only yell at employees, but throw things (never AT someone.. usually venting general frustration rather than during a specific argument, but we would all disappear as fast as possible anyway) I've seen performers be such divas that it was almost comical watching them have a meltdown. I'm sure we've all heard of famous Hollywood directors who are known for tyrannical behavior. Isn't the relationship between Scorsese and DiCaprio successful partly because DiCaprio can deal with Scorsese's "bullying"?

 

Which brings me to Tim... I've always had mixed feelings about him. Sometimes I thought he seemed classy with his proper suits and gentlemanly behavior. Other times I just saw him as the unfortunate stereotype of an obsessively fastidious "fussy old queen." From the beginning I though he would be hell to live with or be in a relationship with because of his exaggerated "refinement". He's quite a diva, but not in the obvious ways of celebrities like J-Lo, because he doesn't have a reputation for demanding ridiculous shit. At least you know where you stand with people like that. With someone who is trying to be refined and elegant, you're going to get a LOT of passive aggressive crap.

Edited October 11, 2015 by slothgirl

[RCharter]

I don't think he was using tough love on Swapnil to make him buckle down; going to production or the judges to get him auf'ed says he wanted him GONE, not that he wanted him to succeed.

 

 

In the Entertainment industry, a lot of things are tolerated that wouldn't be in a corporate environment or most other types of workplaces. I remember choreographers that would scream at people. I had a boss once that would not only yell at employees, but throw things (never AT someone.. usually venting general frustration rather than during a specific argument, but we would all disappear as fast as possible anyway) I've seen performers be such divas that it was almost comical watching them have a meltdown. I'm sure we've all heard of famous Hollywood directors who are known for tyrannical behavior. Isn't the relationship between Scorsese and DiCaprio successful partly because DiCaprio can deal with Scorsese's "bullying"?

 

Which brings me to Tim... I've always had mixed feelings about him. Sometimes I thought he seemed classy with his proper suits and gentlemanly behavior. Other times I just saw him as the unfortunate stereotype of an obsessively fastidious "fussy old queen." From the beginning I though he would be hell to live with or be in a relationship with because of his exaggerated "refinement". He's quite a diva, but not in the obvious ways of celebrities like J-Lo, because he doesn't have a reputation for demanding ridiculous shit. At least you know where you stand with people like that. With someone who is trying to be refined and elegant, you're going to get a LOT of passive aggressive crap.

And I have no problem with an obvious diva.  I prefer Naomi Campbell to Tyra Banks, because NC is a fabulous bitch.  But again, I think part of the reason I love NC is because you know who she is and she never pretends to be anyone she isn't.  She isn't ever pretending to be nice, even when she should pretend to be nice.  But with NC there is never this behind the back thing that Tim does, or any sort of favortism.  NC is just comes off as a fabulous bitch period.....to me at least.  Like you said, at least with someone like J-Lo or NC you know where you stand and there isn't any sort of subterfuge.

Edited October 11, 2015 by RCharter

[zxy556575]

I compare this incident in my mind to Season 1 Tim, when he told Wendy Pepper, "Please don't defend the shoe to me!" It was said in a slightly raised tone, with firm emphasis. That was about the most heated he used to get, Also, it was in reference to the fashion, not Wendy herself.

Edited October 12, 2015 by lordonia

[ursulaandress]

Apropos of nothing really, I recently read his book 'Gunn's Golden Rules' on my Kindle while stuck in an airport, it was an easy, mindless, gossipy read.  I was taken aback by the overall style of writing, stream of consciousness, rather amateurish.  Like what runs through your mind as you think about telling stories of your life with a heavy spin on making yourself out to be the good guy.  In each story, his effort to present himself as extremely fair-minded, for the earnest folk, not impressed with big names while dropping them right and left, was unconvincing, overt and strained.   

 

On some level, my heart goes out to him despite my extreme distaste of how he's handled his fame and this season of PR, because I think he struggles with a core of self-doubt and life wasn't always a cakewalk for him.  The petty controlling side of his humanness is peeking through as his "star" rises.

 

I really wouldn't care about his mentor/proper gentleman image dissolving, but his treatment of Swapnil was so yucky - the way he stormed away arm-in-arm with the cranky I suspect eternally miserable producer-model leaving Swapnil's head spinning was beyond ugly and indefensible.  

[backgroundnoise]

What is ugly to me is his practically crowing in the interviews about how he saved the show and the other designers from the awful effects of Swapnil.  This whole situation appears to be completely instigated by Tim.  There is not a scintilla of evidence that Swapnil's work habits were either corrupting the other designers, or that any took any notice at all.  Tim took it upon himself to object to Swapnil, went tattling to the judges to get Zac on board, and finally succeeded in getting Swapnil out.  Now he's congratulating himself in the most distasteful manner.

 

Re his NO PRODUCER MANIPULATION, well, okay.  I doubt Harvey set this up.  Tim seems to have done that all on his own for his own petty reasons.  YMMV.

[designing1]

 

There is not a scintilla of evidence that Swapnil's work habits were either corrupting the other designers, or that any took any notice at all.

 

And on the off chance the others were being corrupted, that's theirs to own. They're all adults (well, maybe not Ashley) and make their own decisions about how to manage their work. If they're goofing off because someone else is, they're idiots. This isn't a paying job where one employee doesn't want to do the heavy lifting that someone else is avoiding; it's a competition. Work to your potential regardless of what anyone else is doing.

[zxy556575]

We seem to be top-heavy with people who think Tim was in the wrong and I'm honestly curious what the perception is from his supporters. Is the thinking that Swapnil deserved it, that Tim is human and allowed to be angry once in a while, or that his temper just wasn't the big damned deal everyone's making it out to be?

[Julia]

We seem to be top-heavy with people who think Tim was in the wrong and I'm honestly curious what the perception is from his supporters. Is the thinking that Swapnil deserved it, that Tim is human and allowed to be angry once in a while, or that his temper just wasn't the big damned deal everyone's making it out to be?

 

Except if he'd been actively lobbying for weeks with the judges to send Swapnil home, doesn't that make his outburst something other than a sudden, understandable, no-big-damned-deal expression of anger? He was abusive to a designer he wanted to fail.

[azshadowwalker]

I'm not a fan of Tim, but I don't think he wanted Swapnil to fail. The judges have been asking these questions about Swapnil for a while. I imagine that they were asking them long before we actually saw that on the show, since the show was focusing on Blake and Ashley at the beginning. Blaming Tim or the judges for Swapnil half-assing it is a stretch, considering that Swapnil was saying in talking heads that he just wanted to be safe and wasn't really applying himself.

[Julia]

I'm not a fan of Tim, but I don't think he wanted Swapnil to fail. The judges have been asking these questions about Swapnil for a while. I imagine that they were asking them long before we actually saw that on the show, since the show was focusing on Blake and Ashley at the beginning. Blaming Tim or the judges for Swapnil half-assing it is a stretch, considering that Swapnil was saying in talking heads that he just wanted to be safe and wasn't really applying himself.

 

and yet it's hard to make a case that Tim didn't want Swapnil to fail, since he gave an interview to a national publication stating in no uncertain terms that he's been lobbying the judges to send Swapnil home for a few challenges now. I'm not sure how Swapnil's state of discouragement affects what Tim cheerfully defends doing.

[backgroundnoise]

The judges have been asking these questions about Swapnil for a while.

I didn't see any evidence of this, which is why Zac's comments a few episodes ago came so out of the blue.  By then, I'm assuming Tim had been campaigning and what the judges are questioning are things planted in their minds by Tim.  I'm also curious about viewers who are stating that Swapnil had been sliding for a while--did anyone pick up on that before the episode where Zac made his first comment? 

[RCharter]

and yet it's hard to make a case that Tim didn't want Swapnil to fail, since he gave an interview to a national publication stating in no uncertain terms that he's been lobbying the judges to send Swapnil home for a few challenges now. I'm not sure how Swapnil's state of discouragement affects what Tim cheerfully defends doing.

exactly.

[Mabinogia]

I just can't figure out how a show that Tim is a producer of would edit things in such a way to make Tim look so wrong. If there is something more that happened one would think the show would show it. Maybe Swapnil was spending all that "lazy" time sitting around heckling the others or like stealing their scissors so they couldn't work. That would be disruptive to the workroom. But we aren't seeing that so it probably didn't happen and Tim is just a bully who for whatever reason was personally offended by Swapnil not working his hardest, which he himself admitted, so at least that part is not being fabricated by Tim.

 

Putting aside all the personal stuff, it just strikes me as odd from a production standpoint, unless they are secretly trying to get rid of Tim because there is no way any of them could think that throwing in a couple scene's of Swapnil smoking would justify what Tim did. I can't recall a single talking head from one of the others that backs up Tim's claim that Swapnil was disruptive. It's all just so...tone deaf. As if Tim and/or production have lost all sense of how the audience will respond.

[justawatcher]

I'm going to go out on a completely unsupported limb here, and suppose the following:

Swapnil's on drugs. Literally.

They might be the prescribed kind, in which case, there's nothing they could do and to discuss on a filmed television program could prompt a lawsuit under the ADA. or, they might be of the party favor persuasion, in which case they might choose not to prosecute as it would have landed in the real time law enforcement news cycle rather than the delayed broadcast. Also, it might have been apparent behind the scenes for quite some time but lawyers may have told them to find a completely different reason to get his ass out of there. The end result though, is that we have speculated for weeks that he was smoking something other than tobacco. Perhaps we were right, but they can't say anything.

[RCharter]

I just can't figure out how a show that Tim is a producer of would edit things in such a way to make Tim look so wrong. If there is something more that happened one would think the show would show it. Maybe Swapnil was spending all that "lazy" time sitting around heckling the others or like stealing their scissors so they couldn't work. That would be disruptive to the workroom. But we aren't seeing that so it probably didn't happen and Tim is just a bully who for whatever reason was personally offended by Swapnil not working his hardest, which he himself admitted, so at least that part is not being fabricated by Tim.

 

Putting aside all the personal stuff, it just strikes me as odd from a production standpoint, unless they are secretly trying to get rid of Tim because there is no way any of them could think that throwing in a couple scene's of Swapnil smoking would justify what Tim did. I can't recall a single talking head from one of the others that backs up Tim's claim that Swapnil was disruptive. It's all just so...tone deaf. As if Tim and/or production have lost all sense of how the audience will respond.

 

I've often wondered about that.  Tim came off so poorly on UTG that I thought that he might have upset TPTB or someone in production and they edited him badly so they could get rid of him.  But then he gave interviews defending his actions on the show.

 

And now this -- Tim comes off so badly here, yet he gave that interview defending and applauding his actions.  Its hard to believe its just a bad edit at this point since he comes out and defends the behavior we've all seen on the show.

 

I'm going to go out on a completely unsupported limb here, and suppose the following:

Swapnil's on drugs. Literally.

They might be the prescribed kind, in which case, there's nothing they could do and to discuss on a filmed television program could prompt a lawsuit under the ADA. or, they might be of the party favor persuasion, in which case they might choose not to prosecute as it would have landed in the real time law enforcement news cycle rather than the delayed broadcast. Also, it might have been apparent behind the scenes for quite some time but lawyers may have told them to find a completely different reason to get his ass out of there. The end result though, is that we have speculated for weeks that he was smoking something other than tobacco. Perhaps we were right, but they can't say anything.

What support do you have for any of that?  I don't mean paper proof, but even anecdotal proof?  I think thats a big charge to throw at someone without some level of support.  I mean, it sounds like you've literally constructed an entire story out of nothing at all, and not even logical jumps, but that you've just literally made up stories about the man being on drugs and the show having to find a reason to get rid of him.

 

He has had no outbursts in the workroom, the rest of the designers love him, his behavior hasn't been erratic, none of the designers get much sleep so that's just as good an explanation for the red eyes, and producers have always encouraged "personality" in the TH's.  Additionally, if he is taking drugs legally there is no reason to kick him off the show since his use of those drugs would have not had any impact on his ability to compete.  He would have been taking these drugs to control a condition from the start of the competition, and he designed looks in the top three for the first 3-4 challenges.

 

 So please tell me what you've based this entire story on?  Oh wait, I just read the first part of your post where you said that all of this is completely unsupported fiction...my bad.

 

LMAO @ calling a guy a drug addict to try to explain away Tim's poor behavior....goodness.

[Calamity Jane]

I'll go to the opposite of quite everyone here, but I understand Tim's reaction...

 

For me, it was like when my father was disappointed when I was going the easy way... Soooo disappointed, because he believed in my talent and was furious to see what I was -not- doing of it...

 

In other words, I think that he really liked Swapnil and believe in his talent. I'm also sure they had head to head conversations a few times before Tim lost it in the workroom, and that he was effed up to see that it was a kind of worthless, and also frustrated because he didn't succeeded in his attempts to "shake" and "wake up" Swapnil

I think this supports the possibility that Tim will use his save on Swapnil, as part of the mentoring process, to snap him out of his funk and get him back to the Swapnil we saw early on.

[Calamity Jane]

I just can't figure out how a show that Tim is a producer of would edit things in such a way to make Tim look so wrong. If there is something more that happened one would think the show would show it. Maybe Swapnil was spending all that "lazy" time sitting around heckling the others or like stealing their scissors so they couldn't work. That would be disruptive to the workroom. But we aren't seeing that so it probably didn't happen and Tim is just a bully who for whatever reason was personally offended by Swapnil not working his hardest, which he himself admitted, so at least that part is not being fabricated by Tim.

 

Putting aside all the personal stuff, it just strikes me as odd from a production standpoint, unless they are secretly trying to get rid of Tim because there is no way any of them could think that throwing in a couple scene's of Swapnil smoking would justify what Tim did. I can't recall a single talking head from one of the others that backs up Tim's claim that Swapnil was disruptive. It's all just so...tone deaf. As if Tim and/or production have lost all sense of how the audience will respond.

This is what's bugging me so much.  We went from "you need some Swapnil juice" to "he's been slacking" in such a short, short span of time! There's more to it, there has to be.  I'm waiting to see Thursday!

[justawatcher]

Like I said, I'm trying to figure out what has happened behind the scenes to have such a drastic swing- both on his enthusiasm and participation and skill/refinement and then on the other side, such laser focused commenting from Zac and Tim and the production lady. Something off-camera has occurred. And this being the Lifetime version of PR, which has NEVER been shy about broadcasting drama, is holding back. What could possibly be taboo for Lifetime not to exploit? What could have occurred that there are no talking heads from any other participant? That's why I speculated what I did. To me, it was the only logical explanation. The only other logical explanation is that someone made a sexual advance against someone and it wasn't well received (from either direction). Perhaps that might be the more plausible answer. Lifetime, after all, seems to have a limit as to what the discussion will be with regards to sex and the human body, etc.

 

I don't know ya'll. maybe he took a (prescribed and legal) Xanax and took a very long nap and they couldn't say that. I don't know. But there's more than what seems to be shown.

[slothgirl]

I just can't figure out how a show that Tim is a producer of would edit things in such a way to make Tim look so wrong.

 

Hubris.

Tim doesn't think the editing makes him look wrong because he is already SO sure he ISN"T in the wrong.

 

I'm going to go out on a completely unsupported limb here, and suppose the following:

Swapnil's on drugs. Literally.

Several of us have speculated over the course of the season that Swapnil was "on" something. As to what, or why he comes off that way, I can't really say. I've never been as enamored of him as many posters here, so I'm not really all that upset that he's gone.

 

Oops.. .I got confused about which thread I was in. I'm moving some of this post to the Swapnil thread.

Edited October 13, 2015 by slothgirl

[Julia]

I'm going to go out on a completely unsupported limb here, and suppose the following:

Swapnil's on drugs. Literally.

So in this hypothesis of yours Swapnil is secretly either taking legally prescribed drugs to remediate a medical condition (in which case auffing him over it would arguably violate the ADA) or he's breaking the law, and in either case Tim is a huge liar who's indignantly soiling his honor to deny a conspiracy by the producers to cover all that up?

It's kind of sad that even in a story invented to massage what we know to be true so that Swapnil is at fault, Tim is still behaving shabbily.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Julia

[paramitch]

I don't know Swapnil and so I am just speculating, but I think Tim's outburst caused him to completely give up and shut down.  He just wanted to be out of there.  He knew, at that point, that nothing he did would change things so why make a giant effort that would be rejected by the judges.  Not everyone reacts positively to being shouted at.  I know bullying and foul language and yelling are more tolerated now as behavior than when I was younger, but not everyone responds well to it, and I can understand why Swapnil just collapsed.

 

I take the word 'bullying' very seriously, and I simply do not agree that what Tim did was bullying. (I was bullied in the 6-7th grades to a horrendous degree. Beaten up multiple times per week. Thrown down stairs, shut in lockers, mocked, abused, shunned, etc. So I take it very seriously.)

 

I think the term 'bullying' has become a catch-all for anytime a person is unpleasant or negative. Yes, I agree that Tim was unhappy with Swapnil and when Swapnil began making the same excuses we have heard for half a season now, I do think Tim lost his temper and reacted in frustration and mild anger. He didn't scream at Swapnil. He cut him off with what I felt was fairly real talk. These are adults working in fashion. I think Swapnil can handle someone responding to him honestly with "That's bullshit," or asking (in frustration) "What's the fucking point?" The fact that it was TIM saying these things had more impact on me, not less, and I felt he was simply trying a last-ditch effort to break through to Swapnil, who I think is smart, handsome and ridiculously talented but who has seemed very 'off' this whole season. I don't know if it's drugs or simple laziness, but something feels off to me there in a big way.

 

Now we're back to PR and--way to learn a lesson--Tim's no longer "just" a mentor, he's all over the place.  Again!  He's a producer, he's the mentor, he's seated at the runway, he's introducing the models and pointing out construction flaws, sharing little workroom incidents the judges should not be privy to at all. . . and now he's an advocate for the crew-clients because he's personally fond of them--possibly at the expense of the designers.

But one thing Tim has been very open about is that his role has not really changed. He always sat in on the runway shows (usually at the back, in the dark), and was consulted many times as the judges deliberated, where just as he does now, he might bring up workroom aspects or his own opinions on the work. He's talked about this very openly that he's been free to give his opinions, both when Heidi was seeking support to not give the win to Gretchen in S8, or when Michelle was eliminated in S11. The only difference is that now Tim sits with the judges and they've simply owned up to the fact that Tim is always there for the shows and always has been.

 

Any reasonable person would have looked at UTG and told Tim "apologize!""Be contrite""Separate yourself from this situation""don't side with Anya and Mondo at the reunion."  Instead he gave interview after interview defending his actions, which made him look 100x worse.  To me that was the worst thing he could have done, even worse than blaming a bad edit.  We all make mistakes, even as adults, no one is perfect.  If he had just admitted that he got caught up in playing favorites, or even if he said he wished he did it different I know I would have been ready to forgive, because I love original Tim Gunn.

 

Even if he felt he was right, he should have had good people around him to tell him that he didn't come off looking good on the show and to steer him away from being defensive and further putting people off.  But I suspect he is now surrounded by a bunch of people who tell him that everything he does is flawless and that he doesn't make any mistakes.

I absolutely agree that Tim did a terrible job on "Under the Gunn" and that he (and especially Mondo and Anya) has a lot to be ashamed for about that entire season. I also think Tim handled the aftermath incredibly clumsily and that he needs to acknowledge these less-than-great moments of his (just as he should have after that incredibly mean-spirited PR reunion with Helen and Alexandria et al). 

 

Do you guys remember when Tim used to do a blog post after each show? It might have even been when the show was on Bravo. He was quite forthright-to-bitchy in it with regard to individual designers. He stopped doing it -- compelled by the producers, was my guess -- because he was giving too much away. But I was never under any illusions about him being a kind person after reading it.

 

I like the addition of the judges being able to critique the clothes close up, but Tim has so eagerly inserted himself there to tell tales and backbite, often without being asked. I can only imagine how much of his own biases he blabs to Nina or Heidi while they're hanging around the craft services table or whatnot.

I think at his best, Tim can be kind, supportive, thoughtful, generous and gracious. At his worst, he can be bitchy, catty and short-tempered. The irony is, I loved those blog posts of his (and the interviews he gave around that time) because they combined both. Tim was honest and blunt about what he liked and didn't like -- both in the contestants and among the judges' decisions as well. He later said that the producers weren't happy with his honesty which was why he stopped blogging and speaking quite so freely. (Meanwhile, as I mentioned above, Tim has always been there for the runway shows and always interacted with the judges. )

 

I wonder if Tim was privy to Swapnil's talking head where he basically admitted he is trying to work the system, riding the middle of the pack for a while and then was gong to bring out the big guns and wow tem all. I can imagine that pissing Tim off to no end. And Tim seems the type who would be all "oh really? well, we'll see about that." and using his power to make sure Swapnil didn't succeed in his scheme to create his own story arc. 

It appears that everyone was privy to Swapnil's strategy because he talked about it not only in his THs but also several times on camera with other designers, who seemed both fascinated and wary about the game Swapnil was trying to play on the show. I really liked Swapnil but let's face it -- it wasn't just Tim who would have been talking about his attitude. It would have been witnessed by the camera people, the sound people, the production people, the contestants, etc. 

 

I'll go to the opposite of quite everyone here, but I understand Tim's reaction...

 

For me, it was like when my father was disappointed when I was going the easy way... Soooo disappointed, because he believed in my talent and was furious to see what I was -not- doing of it...

 

In other words, I think that he really liked Swapnil and believe in his talent. I'm also sure they had head to head conversations a few times before Tim lost it in the workroom, and that he was effed up to see that it was a kind of worthless, and also frustrated because he didn't succeeded in his attempts to "shake" and "wake up" Swapnil

I thought this exact thing. I actually think Tim liked Swapnil, but I think he was bitterly disappointed by his choices, as well as by what certainly appeared to be -- at least some of the time -- his insistence on not taking the show seriously or making the most of his spot as a contestant.

 

We're supposed to be in "fashion world", not in "my little pony" world...

 

I understand what you say, but I'm a little bit... exhausted by the overuse of that "bullying" shit/excuse/explanation/lecture/etc.... Because that was NOT bullying... And they're not in sugar (litteral translation from French, which means they're not delicate snowflakes who can't handle anything).

Thank you. Perfectly said.

 

I feel like when you use a position of power to needlessly berate someone who isn't going to fight back -- that's bullying.  The term may be generally overused, but I think its appropriate here.

 

As for being in the "real world" thats fine too, but in the real world, you shouldn't expect your mentor to curse and go off on you. In the real world Tim's job is to be a mentor, if Tim couldn't see it in himself to offer some constructive advice as a mentor, he should have just let Swapnil's work speak for itself on the runway.  And there is absolutely no reason why Tim had to do that in front of a client.  

 

You don't have to be in my little pony world to expect or deserve basic respect.

 

As Fashion is a pretty tough world, I disagree that a frustrated, negative reaction from a mentor is either bullying or disrespectful. I feel that in fact it was because Tim respects Swapnil's talent that he got so upset at what he saw as a colossal waste of an opportunity. Swapnil checked out about four episodes ago and it was visible even on camera and to the other contestants. Tim was upset and frustrated but I feel he was within his rights to be.

Did Swapnil have an irritating and whiny client? Yes. It still doesn't change that in a full day plus three hours, all he had created for her was a shoddy hastily draped wrap top that wasn't even complete enough for her to try on. Tim had a right to be appalled on behalf of the client and I think that's what got to him the most.

 

Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this, although I'm aware I'm in the minority on Tim. But I still like and respect him, and based on what we saw in this episode, I understood why he was so angry and frustrated with Swapnil. Swapnil utterly wasted his opportunity on PR. But he got himself and his work seen, so I guess that's something. But what a bummer from a guy who -- if he had really applied himself -- I definitely think could have won the whole thing. Easily.

[RCharter]

Like I said, I'm trying to figure out what has happened behind the scenes to have such a drastic swing- both on his enthusiasm and participation and skill/refinement and then on the other side, such laser focused commenting from Zac and Tim and the production lady. Something off-camera has occurred. And this being the Lifetime version of PR, which has NEVER been shy about broadcasting drama, is holding back. What could possibly be taboo for Lifetime not to exploit? What could have occurred that there are no talking heads from any other participant? That's why I speculated what I did. To me, it was the only logical explanation. The only other logical explanation is that someone made a sexual advance against someone and it wasn't well received (from either direction). Perhaps that might be the more plausible answer. Lifetime, after all, seems to have a limit as to what the discussion will be with regards to sex and the human body, etc.

 

I don't know ya'll. maybe he took a (prescribed and legal) Xanax and took a very long nap and they couldn't say that. I don't know. But there's more than what seems to be shown.

 

There are about 10 other more logical explanations than calling a guy a drug addict based on nothing at all.

 

How about being worn out from a constant work schedule?  How about becoming more worn out because he has been forced out of his normal work routine?  That could take a definite hit on enthusiasm/participation and the level of work product.  If Swapnil works best with his smoke breaks and his ability to talk to other designers and Tim took that away from him that would easily explain the decline in his work product and that is a much more logical explanation than drug addict.

 

As for Tim and Zac.  Tim was clear that he was upset that Swapnil was working his own way, which Tim thought was lazy and therefore he went to the judges to intervene.  He said in the same interview that he felt like the judges were rewarding work that he felt was born out of laziness.  Tim went to the judges to get them to complain about Swapnil and to get him kicked off the show...not because of his work product, but because Tim thought he was lazy.  The more logical inference to draw is that Tim, through his countless whining sessions finally got to Zac.  How drug addict would be a more logical explanation than that seems strange to me.

 

Lifetime wouldn't film Tim going to the judges and whining about Swapnil, and if Tim hadn't undertaken to brag about it in an interview no one would have ever known.  There was no other way for Lifetime to amp up the drama than what they did, because this was all Tim's personal pettiness and vindictiveness.  

 

I just don't see how "drug addict" is the first and most logical explanation that would come to anyone's mind

[RCharter]

I take the word 'bullying' very seriously, and I simply do not agree that what Tim did was bullying. (I was bullied in the 6-7th grades to a horrendous degree. Beaten up multiple times per week. Thrown down stairs, shut in lockers, mocked, abused, shunned, etc. So I take it very seriously.)

 

 

As Fashion is a pretty tough world, I disagree that a frustrated, negative reaction from a mentor is either bullying or disrespectful. I feel that in fact it was because Tim respects Swapnil's talent that he got so upset at what he saw as a colossal waste of an opportunity. Swapnil checked out about four episodes ago and it was visible even on camera and to the other contestants. Tim was upset and frustrated but I feel he was within his rights to be.

Did Swapnil have an irritating and whiny client? Yes. It still doesn't change that in a full day plus three hours, all he had created for her was a shoddy hastily draped wrap top that wasn't even complete enough for her to try on. Tim had a right to be appalled on behalf of the client and I think that's what got to him the most.

 

Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this, although I'm aware I'm in the minority on Tim. But I still like and respect him, and based on what we saw in this episode, I understood why he was so angry and frustrated with Swapnil. Swapnil utterly wasted his opportunity on PR. But he got himself and his work seen, so I guess that's something. But what a bummer from a guy who -- if he had really applied himself -- I definitely think could have won the whole thing. Easily.

 

Swapnil, using his own 60% effort process was able to produce top looks week after week.  If his process was bringing him success and he was happy with that success Tim had no place to mentor him to do otherwise.  Nor should it have been Tim to go and whine to the judges to get rid of Swapnil for anything other than his work product.  To try to derail someone you are mentoring is ridiculous and its over the line.  He didn't sit down and have a talk with Swapnil to try to understand him or to understand his work process....instead Tim simply decided that even though Swapnil's work process was working for him Tim had to do everything in his power to either change it or destroy Swapnil.  How is that a good mentor?  And not for a New York minute do I think that Tim had that talk with Swapnil and the producers wouldn't air it since it would show Tim trying to get through to Swapnil.  So, I think its reasonable to assume that that "talk" never happened.

 

Swapnil changed his entire way of working to suit Tim, and instead of Tim taking a step back and realizing that Tim's way may not be the way that works for Swapnil he instead choose to berate him in front of a client.  Swapnil's work was fine, right up until he capitulated to Tim.  Even in the UM challenge, which was the first time he was on the bottom (and most telling, it was that challenge when Zac made his comment) it was pretty clear that Swapnil's work was at worst, in the middle.  To the point where Heidi even said that Lindsey needed "Swapnil juice."  And this was for a challenge where swapnil was supposed to be on the bottom!  But it was after Swapnil took Tim's "mentoring" to heart that he fell far and fast.  And it didn't help that Tim's whining to the judges seems to have influenced Zac's scores and attitude toward Swapnil.  But never did Tim stop to consider that perhaps his "mentoring" is a big part of what caused Swapnil's decline.  

 

As for being a bully, I think thats exactly what Tim is.  Since mileage varies I went to the dictionary which describes a bully as someone who "uses superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants."  Tim used his superior position and influence with the judges and as a mentor to force Swapnil to change the way he worked, which is the way that Tim thought Swapnil should work.  And Tim used his position as a mentor to beat up on someone that he knew couldn't fight back....and thats my definition of a bully.

 

I think it stinks that you were beat up, but thats not the only way that someone is bullied.

Edited October 13, 2015 by RCharter

[backgroundnoise]

I feel that in fact it was because Tim respects Swapnil's talent that he got so upset at what he saw as a colossal waste of an opportunity.

Wasting his opportunity by clearly, IMO, establishing himself as a very probable finalist?  Tim interfered with that.  JMO.

[Freckledbruh]

I would love to know WHEN Tim started going to the judges. Did he think Blake, Jake, Lindsey or, God forbid, Amanda should still be there at this point over Swapnil? As Nina would say, I question his taste level.

[backgroundnoise]

It appears that everyone was privy to Swapnil's strategy because he talked about it not only in his THs but also several times on camera with other designers, who seemed both fascinated and wary about the game Swapnil was trying to play on the show. I really liked Swapnil but let's face it -- it wasn't just Tim who would have been talking about his attitude.

I'm sorry, but I still see no evidence of this at all, other than that one clip of Swapnil saying he was giving 40(60?) percent and that he was disappointed with himself.  I trust nothing Tim says at this point, because the cameras are always on--where's the footage?  The fact that this whole thing came completely out of the blue indicates to me there was no there there until Tim instigated it.  YMMV.

[mansonlamps]

 

I know bullying and foul language and yelling are more tolerated now as behavior than when I was younger, but not everyone responds well to it, and I can understand why Swapnil just collapsed.

 

Without knowing for sure when you were younger, unless it was in the last year or two, I could not disagree with this more.  Bullying was "expected" and tolerated in the old days and adults rarely, if ever, got involved.  There was always a "sticks and stones" attitude and you were supposed to just suck it up.  I could not even imagine adults getting involved like they do nowadays unless the bullying was to the extremes described by paramitch ie. being thrown down stairs, and even then most kids probably didn't report it unless a hospital visit was involved.

 

Maybe Tim was acting like a bully in the most literal sense of the word, but somehow I think Swapnil will do just fine professionally and in life despite a dressing down by Tim on Project Runway.

[Julia]

 And, yes, I think when a person with some power and influence yells at someone without either that is bullying.  You don't have to be physically damaged. In fact you don't have to be in the same room...when I look at commentators piling on someone they don't agree with with cursing and threats on threads, then, yes, I think they are bullies and I stand by my statement that it seems to be altogether too accepted as a response to someone who holds a different opinion.  In this case, I wonder if Tim's outburst in full view of the other contestants didn't have a negative impact on the others (Ashley flies to mind--does no one wonder if she was so upset because she saw a contestant she is fond of being yelled at?). Tim accused Swapnil of spreading laziness through the contestants; did it ever occur to him that he might be spreading his own form of contagion when he lost his temper?  Of course it didn't, because Tim thinks he is always right.

 

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that the apple didn't fall too far from the tree.

[justawatcher]

Such a tremendous amount of pearl clutching. My goodness! Golly willickers!

 

I didn't say the guy was a drug addict. I said that I was speculating, because something had happened behind the scenes that wasn't being discussed on camera, and the only two things I could think that would cause drama queen Lifetime to not discuss were drugs (legal or otherwise) or a sexual situation. 

 

Look- if someone gets an upper respiratory infection, one of the treatments (fully legitimate and normal) are steroids. In addition to clearing up the breathing, they also make you goofy and jittery and unable to sleep. That does not make one a drug addict. It is a side effect of a legal medication. There are other medications that make you lose your concentration or go to sleep. All legal. Not a drug addict. I specifically said that if it were drugs it could be legal and legitimate or of the party favor version. I didn't try to guess, just indicated it could be. People behind me inferred something different and more dire. Go back and look at the original post. It's there, unedited.

 

And whomever upthread with the bullying? FFS- Tim didn't bully. Tim lost his temper, and Lifetime wasn't shy about showing that bit of drama, but they're shy about showing whatever it is that has prompted the Swapnil/Tim/Zac thing. Do your own speculation. I did. I came up with two scenarios. And folks? That's real life workplace. It happens.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I think Tim's outburst was fine, even for a mentor. He's not acting as a professor at Parsons. He's a player in a reality TV game show.

 

And why is everyone assuming that this is the first time he's done this?  Maybe it's just one of the first times it's made the final edit.

 

Tim used to write a no-holds-blog and record YouTube vidoes analyzing episodes very honestly.  He was pretty open about the fact that certain designers drove him crazy.

 

After he signed big endorsements deals with companies ranging from AARP to Tide to Transitions Optical, he became a lot more guarded in his views.

 

The real Tim Gunn IMHO is not the nice Grandpa Tim character, it's kind of a bitchy gossiper with often limited tolerance for some people.

[Freckledbruh]

 

And why is everyone assuming that this is the first time he's done this?  Maybe it's just one of the first times it's made the final edit.

I don't care if this is the first or the hundredth time.  It was unprofessional, uncalled for and unhelpful.  It also doesn't address the fact that he tried to rig the game by going to the judges behind the scenes asking for Swapnil to be kicked off for things not related to the output of his work,  He needs to go.

[Julia]

The real Tim Gunn IMHO is not the nice Grandpa Tim character, it's kind of a bitchy gossiper with often limited tolerance for some people.

Well, then, it appears that he should have stuck to pretending to be nice Grandpa Tim, because it doesn't seem like a lot of people like or trust the real Tim Gunn he's been introducing us to over the last few years.

[slothgirl]

There are about 10 other more logical explanations than calling a guy a drug addict based on nothing at all.

I just don't see how "drug addict" is the first and most logical explanation that would come to anyone's mind

I don't recall anyone calling him a drug addict.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I was wondering if he was on something a number of episodes ago... LONG before this latest drama. Being "on something" doesn't make him an addict, nor does it have to have anything to do with why Tim lost his temper. I've known plenty of recreational users who weren't addicted. I don't know about the fashion world, but the entertainment industry is rife with drug use. From what I've heard of the fashion industry, it is also.

 

I also don't see Tim's outburst as "bullying". I think going behind contestants' backs to sway the judges, especially if the reasons have nothing to do with the product, was out of line, and I'd like to see a different mentor like Joanna Coles (but please god, NOT Zanna Rossi Roberts!). I also think Tim is handling the aftermath badly, but I didn't expect anything better from him after UTG. But I didn't see the actual outburst as bullying. I saw it more as "challenging" Swapnil.

 

But then, I also didn't realize Tim has as much power as he apparently does, if he can get someone auf'ed for anything other than the actual product shown. In the Swapnil thread I ran down the episodes and my reaction to Swapnil's looks, and as I said, I loved 2, hated 2, and was ambivalent about the rest, so after the first couple of shows, I no longer saw him as a top contender anyway, based on what he was showing. The "on something" vibe I got from him primarily in his Talking Heads, NOT because of what he was putting out. Since I know the TH's aren't necessarily filmed contemporaneously, I don't automatically equate them with behavior during the competition .

Edited October 14, 2015 by slothgirl

[RCharter]

I don't recall anyone calling him a drug addict.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I was wondering if he was on something a number of episodes ago... LONG before this latest drama. Being "on something" doesn't make him an addict, nor does it have to have anything to do with why Tim lost his temper. I've known plenty of recreational users who weren't addicted. I don't know about the fashion world, but the entertainment industry is rife with drug use. From what I've heard of the fashion industry, it is also.

 

I also don't see Tim's outburst as "bullying". I think going behind contestants' backs to sway the judges, especially if the reasons have nothing to do with the product, was out of line, and I'd like to see a different mentor like Joanna Coles (but please god, NOT Zanna Rossi Roberts!). I also think Tim is handling the aftermath badly, but I didn't expect anything better from him after UTG. But I didn't see the actual outburst as bullying. I saw it more as "challenging" Swapnil.

 

But then, I also didn't realize Tim has as much power as he apparently does, if he can get someone auf'ed for anything other than the actual product shown. In the Swapnil thread I ran down the episodes and my reaction to Swapnil's looks, and as I said, I loved 2, hated 2, and was ambivalent about the rest, so after the first couple of shows, I no longer saw him as a top contender anyway, based on what he was showing. The "on something" vibe I got from him primarily in his Talking Heads, NOT because of what he was putting out. Since I know the TH's aren't necessarily filmed contemporaneously, I don't automatically equate them with behavior during the competition .

So now the assumption is that he does drugs because a lot of other people in the industry do it?  That makes even less sense.  Producers routinely encourage contestants to be "on" in their TH, and so I don't see how the assumption would be drug use.  And from what I understand TH are filmed during the show as well as after the show, so why would anyone automatically assume drug use from red eyes instead of lack of sleep?  Because a lot of people in the entertainment industry do drugs?  Wow.

 

Tim could have "challenged" him by talking to him.  But berating someone who won't or can't fight back and isn't in the position to fight back is very bullying behavior to me.  Be it in a group, or one on one, its taking advantage of the relative weakness of the other person in order to berate and belittle them.  And Tim did it in front of everyone to show how big and bad Tim Gunn is and how little and insignificant Swapnil is.

 

Tim went to the judges multiple times about Swapnil, at some point it seems to have gotten through to Zac, who made the comment during the UM challenge about "giving Swapnil a pass" even though all of Swapnil's looks until that challenge had been top three looks.  All it takes is one judge who has it out for a designer to sink them.  

[RCharter]

Such a tremendous amount of pearl clutching. My goodness! Golly willickers!

 

I didn't say the guy was a drug addict. I said that I was speculating, because something had happened behind the scenes that wasn't being discussed on camera, and the only two things I could think that would cause drama queen Lifetime to not discuss were drugs (legal or otherwise) or a sexual situation. 

 

Look- if someone gets an upper respiratory infection, one of the treatments (fully legitimate and normal) are steroids. In addition to clearing up the breathing, they also make you goofy and jittery and unable to sleep. That does not make one a drug addict. It is a side effect of a legal medication. There are other medications that make you lose your concentration or go to sleep. All legal. Not a drug addict. I specifically said that if it were drugs it could be legal and legitimate or of the party favor version. I didn't try to guess, just indicated it could be. People behind me inferred something different and more dire. Go back and look at the original post. It's there, unedited.

 

And whomever upthread with the bullying? FFS- Tim didn't bully. Tim lost his temper, and Lifetime wasn't shy about showing that bit of drama, but they're shy about showing whatever it is that has prompted the Swapnil/Tim/Zac thing. Do your own speculation. I did. I came up with two scenarios. And folks? That's real life workplace. It happens.

Its pearl clutching for people to think you shouldn't accuse a guy of abusing drugs based on absolutely nothing at all?

 

Oh wait, now you really meant he might have had an infection and had steroids....LOL.   Because what you wrote below is telling.  Since when do people smoke steroids?  In fact when do people smoke drugs they have been legally prescribed?  When does smoking drugs equate to anything other than drug abuse? 

 

 

The end result though, is that we have speculated for weeks that he was smoking something other than tobacco. Perhaps we were right, but they can't say anything.

You came up with scenarios based on nothing at all, and that is an awful accusation to hurl at someone with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

Losing your temper and being a bully aren't mutually exclusive positions.

 

The most logical explanation would be the simplest one and the one supported by any evidence -- Tim didn't like the way Swapnil worked, Tim thought Swapnil was lazy and went to the judges multiple times to complain and ask that Swapnil be kicked off the show.  Lifetime didn't film that because it doesn't sound like these discussions have ever been filmed.   Tim was able to convince Zac (as evidenced by Zac comments towards Swapnil that most of the time weren't particularly shared by the other two judges).  

 

It's like in some fever to come up with a way to make Tim's behavior justifiable people are coming up with absolute fiction that is supported by nothing at all.  If Swapnil was "on legal drugs" that were affecting his performance than Swapnil's work, from day 1 would have been awful and he would have been booted.   If Swapnil were on legal drugs that weren't affecting his performance than there was no need for Tim to get involved.  If Swapnil was on illegal drugs the producers could have simply gone to the judges and asked them to mark Swapnil's outfits in the bottom three from the start of the show and then simply kick him off if they didn't want drama.  And if they did want drama they could have easily made a production  of it.  So, hidden drug use doesn't even make any sense other than to try to forgive Tim's poor behavior.  

 

I don't mind speculation, but when it involves sullying a man's good name in the frenzied effort to forgive someone who behaved badly I think its a bit much.  Oh, I forgot......you were talking about steroids and the mysterious infection that no one ever saw.

Edited October 14, 2015 by RCharter

[FormerMod-a1]

Guys, it's getting a little snippy in here.  We've been letting things go, but they are not getting better.  Remember to discuss the show/Tim and not each other.  

[slothgirl]

So now the assumption is that he does drugs because a lot of other people in the industry do it?  That makes even less sense.  Producers routinely encourage contestants to be "on" in their TH, and so I don't see how the assumption would be drug use.  And from what I understand TH are filmed during the show as well as after the show, so why would anyone automatically assume drug use from red eyes instead of lack of sleep?  Because a lot of people in the entertainment industry do drugs?  Wow.

 

Tim could have "challenged" him by talking to him.  But berating someone who won't or can't fight back and isn't in the position to fight back is very bullying behavior to me.  Be it in a group, or one on one, its taking advantage of the relative weakness of the other person in order to berate and belittle them.  And Tim did it in front of everyone to show how big and bad Tim Gunn is and how little and insignificant Swapnil is.

 

Tim went to the judges multiple times about Swapnil, at some point it seems to have gotten through to Zac, who made the comment during the UM challenge about "giving Swapnil a pass" even though all of Swapnil's looks until that challenge had been top three looks.  All it takes is one judge who has it out for a designer to sink them.  

You're twisting my words. I didn't say he must be on drugs because other people are, and I also didn't say he seemed "on" in his talking heads. I said that I got an impression from his talking heads that he was "on something", which is not the same thing as being "on".

 

Also, I was responding to a post that said drug use was not the first and most logical assumption to make, so I pointed out that drug use is extremely common in certain industries (the 2 industries that the people involved just happen to be in) therefore NOT a leap. And since more than one person has thought this, it apparently seems to be both a first (or 2nd) assumption as well as logical to us. YMMV.

 

I also said NOTHING about "red eyes". I talked about how his behavior came across. Incidentally, if the talking heads are filmed later (as many of them seem almost certain to be) then the lack of sleep is irrelevant if the contestant is no longer in the competition. But since I wasn't talking about lack of sleep or red eyes, that point is moot.

 

I first mentioned (as did a few others) that Swapnil seemed to be on something WEEKS ago and no one seemed to have a problem with us posting that. It's only NOW that the suggestion is causing some controversy. But it isn't something new... it was posited some time ago. I wasn't suggesting he got kicked off for it nor did I pull it out of thin air as a way to explain his elimination, because I speculated about it long before he got eliminated.

 

I also said that I've always thought he comes across as smug and/or entitled. So I'm definitely not on the Swapnil love train. That's ok.. I felt I was a lone voice of ambivalence about Ashley initially too.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree that Tim's out burst (specifically) was or wasn't bullying, or at least whether it was INTENDED to bully. We already agree that swaying the judges based on anything other than the actual looks created was egregious, and I'm not trying to justify his behavior at all. I think Tim CAN be a bully, or at least a bully-by-proxy, as in the case of Mondo and Anya against Nick's team, and of pretty much everyone against Alexandria. But I think he is too passive-aggressive for his open outburst to be an attempt to bully. It seems counter to his nature.. NOT because he is a sweet, kind gentleman, but because he goes to extreme lengths to protect and project that image, and directly confronting someone (and ON CAMERA no less) as a way to bully them with malice seems unlikely.

 

Also, my impression is that Tim HAS tried to talk to Swapnil and it clearly didn't get him the result he wanted. Whether he was fair in requiring that result isn't the point. Talking failed Tim, so he went further.

Edited October 14, 2015 by slothgirl

[RCharter]

You're going to a lot of trouble to twist my words. I didn't say he did drugs because other people do, and I also didn't say he seemed "on" in his talking heads. I said that I got an impression from his talking heads that he was "on something", which is not the same thing as being "on".

 

Also, I was responding to a post that said drug use was not the first and most logical assumption to make, so I pointed out that drug use is extremely common in certain industries (the 2 industries that the people involved just happen to be in) therefore NOT a leap. And since more than one person has thought this, it apparently seems to be both a first (or 2nd) assumption as well as logical to us. YMMV.

 

I also said NOTHING about "red eyes". I talked about how his behavior came across. Incidentally, if the talking heads are filmed later (as many of them seem almost certain to be) then the lack of sleep is irrelevant if the contestant is no longer in the competition. But since I wasn't talking about lack of sleep or red eyes, that point is moot.

 

I first mentioned (as did a few others) that Swapnil seemed to be on something WEEKS ago and no one seemed to have a problem with us posting that. It's only NOW that the suggestion is causing some controversy. But it isn't something new... it was posited some time ago. I also said that I've always thought he comes across as smug and/or entitled.

 

So I'm definitely not on the Swapnil love train. That's ok.. I felt I was a lone voice of ambivalence about Ashley initially too.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree that Tim's out burst (specifically) was or wasn't bullying, or at least whether it was INTENDED to bully. We already agree that swaying the judges based on anything other than the actual looks created was egregious. I think Tim CAN be a bully, or at least a bully-by-proxy, as in the case of Mondo and Anya against Nick's team, and of pretty much everyone against Alexandria. But I think he is too passive-aggressive for his open outburst to be an attempt to bully.

 

Also, my impression is that Tim HAS tried to talk to Swapnil and it clearly didn't get him the result he wanted. Whether he was fair in needing that result isn't the point. Talking failed him.

 

But what is this impression of him being "on something" based on?  What specific behavior is swapnil exhibiting that would support him being "on something."

 

I truly think that if Tim had talked to Swapnil, that would have been filmed and it would have been aired to support the "Swapnil is a lazy designer that Tim was forced to yell at" edit.  This is why it makes sense that such a conversation never happened.

[slothgirl]

But what is this impression of him being "on something" based on?  What specific behavior is swapnil exhibiting that would support him being "on something."

 

I truly think that if Tim had talked to Swapnil, that would have been filmed and it would have been aired to support the "Swapnil is a lazy designer that Tim was forced to yell at" edit.  This is why it makes sense that such a conversation never happened.

They DID air conversations between Tim and Swapnil about whether he was working up to his capacity.

 

Or perhaps I dreamed them when I fell asleep watching shitty designs come down the runway several episodes ago.

 

I'm not going any further with this. It's getting too argumentative rather than feeling like a discussion about a tv show that only barely matters to me.

Edited October 14, 2015 by slothgirl

[RCharter]

They DID air conversations between Tim and Swapnil about whether he was working up to his capacity.

 

Or perhaps I dreamed them when I fell asleep watching shitty designs come down the runway several episodes ago.

 

I'm not going any further with this. It's getting too argumentative rather than feeling like a discussion about a tv show that only barely matters to me.

I never saw a private conversation between Tim and Swapnil where Tim really just had a sit down with Swapnil and asked him what was going on and tried to understand Swapnil's work process.  According to Tim, he was always watching Swapnil take breaks so he surely could have caught Swapnil on one of his breaks and sat down to have a talk with him.  We've seen Tim have these discussions with other designers in the past, so I know that the show is not opposed to filming and airing them.  

 

But agree to agree, agree to disagree, agree to be done with the conversation.  :)

[RCharter]

"Take the high road.  No matter how much strife, and consternation, frustration and anger you might be confronted with -- don't go to that level." -- Tim Gunn

 

Too bad he didn't take his own advice.  

[Julia]

Well, at least he's still popular enough for people to write RPF about him, so there's that :)

[RCharter]

I don't know what RPF is.

 

Tim accomplished what he wanted:  he got publicity for Project Runway.  He had nothing to lose.  He is untouchable on the program and he knows it.

I think as long as people are willing to go to any length, and come up with any possible explanation to not make anything Tim Gunn's fault, he is untouchable, and will likely get worse.  After all, he knows that people will make up any number of excuses to justify his poor behavior, so he really has no reason to change that behavior.

[Julia]

I don't know what RPF is.

Real People Fiction, which is fan fiction about the actors. If people are invested enough in Tim's persona to make up stories about it, he can probably keep it going for a while.

[Freckledbruh]

Real People Fiction, which is fan fiction about the actors. If people are invested enough in Tim's persona to make up stories about it, he can probably keep it going for a while.

What is being made up?

[sleepyjean]

Real People Fiction, which is fan fiction about the actors. If people are invested enough in Tim's persona to make up stories about it, he can probably keep it going for a while.

 

Project Runway fan fic? Please tell me you're kidding. I mean, I know there's fan fic about everything...but reality shows too? And Project Runway?

It boggles the mind.

[Julia]

What is being made up?

Intricate stories about Swapnil's substance abuse issues and Tim's behind-the-scenes behavior, apparently.

[Freckledbruh]

Project Runway fan fic? Please tell me you're kidding. I mean, I know there's fan fic about everything...but reality shows too? And Project Runway?

It boggles the mind.

I am hoping that that is some kind of joke/shade about everyone's speculation and discussion on stuff that actually happened (like Tim running to the judges trying to get Swapnil kicked off the show) because I can't imagine how crazy a person would need to be to write fan fiction about Timm Gunn.