Unspoiled Speculation

[DollEyes]

  Here's the thread for unspoiled speculation, such as re AHS: Hotel, my theory is that Det. John Lowe, who's investigating the recent string of murders while grieving his missing son Holden, will be the one who helps save him by destroying The Countess, which restores Holden and the other baby vamps. Unfortunately, The Countess could try to stop Lowe by using Holden to lure Lowe's wife Alex and their daughter Scarlett into a trap.

[Avaleigh]

My speculation so far--

 

Dr. Alex is going to be a victim for sure and John's daughter is going to end up moving to the hotel with him. 

 

I think Liz Taylor is a ghost along with Mare's maid and Sally. 

 

The only reason I don't think the Kathy Bates character is a ghost is because her vampire son makes it seem like she can leave if she wants to. She also looks as though she's aged since the 1994 clip. Liz Taylor basically looked the same to me though as did Sally. 

 

I think the Drilldo monster is going to be a lurking threat to the new kid who has moved into the hotel because it'll be all about how kids are a huge risk at succumbing to the temptation of trying drugs and how horribly wrong that can go.

 

I think that the previous owner is going to be apart of this somehow. How did the Countess get put in charge in the first place? My guess is that there's a vampire danger that's bigger than her and it might have been the previous owner. 

 

I think John is going to get stuck permanently in the hotel but I think he and his daughter will be able to help free Holden somehow so that Holden and the daughter can leave together.  

Edited October 13, 2015 by Avaleigh

[RazzleberryPie]

No idea if this is the correct place to post, so Mods, move me if needed, but what were the clues in Season 4 as to what Season 5 would be?

[coppersin]

my theory is that Det. John Lowe, who's investigating the recent string of murders while grieving his missing son Holden, will be the one who helps save him by destroying The Countess, which restores Holden and the other baby vamps. Unfortunately, The Countess could try to stop Lowe by using Holden to lure Lowe's wife Alex and their daughter Scarlett into a trap.

As a creepy, bittersweet ending, I could see them saving the baby vamps but not being able to re-humanize them; then we have a doctor and a cop spending the rest of their lives illicitly gathering blood to feed their eternally young son (and possible his "siblings" if their own families aren't an option).

 

I think that the previous owner is going to be apart of this somehow. How did the Countess get put in charge in the first place? My guess is that there's a vampire danger that's bigger than her and it might have been the previous owner. 

Even though Iris said she'd never met the owner, episode 2 hinted that Mrs. March was the Countess, so I'm betting she's still the owner. My guess is that she's finally burned through her husband's wealth and the hotel isn't exactly a thriving revenue stream, with most of the occupants being junkies, monsters and ghosts, so her plan is to sell the building to someone and then promptly seduce them, giving her control of the hotel again and possibly another inheritance.

 

If there is a bigger, badder vampire, I'm hoping the story doesn't become too complicated or far-reaching. I like the idea that these vampires are just violent parasites, and if they turn you, you just continue the cycle. No time for hierarchy or arch-enemies. Just hurting and feeding and whatever glut works for you.

 

I do think we'll see Countess' sire/the great love of her life, at least. I'm trying to remember which stars/guest stars have been announced that we haven't seen yet and which resemble the other men on the show, since she clearly has a type. And I'm trying to remember - didn't she imply that her sire was dead? It would be an interesting twist if he had tried to dump her the way she dumped Donovan (thus all the heartbreak talk during their breakup) and she responded with a stake to his chest. Ah, love.

 

I think John is going to get stuck permanently in the hotel but I think he and his daughter will be able to help free Holden somehow so that Holden and the daughter can leave together.  

Agreed. The kids will be saved, giving John resolution for the perceived "failure" of losing Holden (in a crowded space, to vampires, but whatever). And his soul will be trapped in the hotel a la The Shining. I just hope he doesn't go all Jack Nicholson by the end - as much as I love my villains and morally greys, it's nice to have a good guy to root for occasionally too.

 

If the parents die and the kids live, I think the last scene should be the kids making a habit of slipping away from their foster family to visit ghost!John in the hotel.

[RedheadZombie]

In True Blood, vampires "coming out of the coffin" and fighting for their rights was symbolic of gay rights. They even had Evangelical Christians seeking their end, and signs reading - "God hates fangs".

The first two episodes made a point of Alex complaining about anti-vaxers. It fits with her character of a mother who has lost a child, believing a parent should do everything they can to protect children. But it seemed more than that. I've read speculation that a vaccine may somehow help or save the vampires. Well first of all, vaccines don't save you after the fact, they prevent the disease. So I thought this was extremely unlikely. Then Gaga specifically used the word "virus" to describe her condition. Maybe it's RM's way of not using the word vampire (like The Walking Dead never uses zombie), but now I'm thinking the vaccine is a possibility in the end.

[DollEyes]

More theories: I think that Det. Lowe might join forces with Donovan to destroy The Countess, for different reasons-Lowe, to rescue Holden, and Donovan, to get revenge on The Countess for dumping him for Tristan. If Lowe and Donovan do kill The Countess and Holden and the other baby vamps do get restored, one result of that could be that Holden & the baby vamps become their real ages. While Holden gets slightly older, the other vamps could not only grow up, some could even grow old, meaning that The Countess has imprisoned them for decades.

Edited October 19, 2015 by DollEyes

[Mattipoo]

After this last episode I am thinking that maybe the detective played by Wes Bentley is already dead and is actually reliving the loss of his son and his family over and over again through the hotel. The way he hangs out in the hotel and his behavior suggests he is in a constant dream state and his interaction with Sally seems to suggest he is stuck in time. So I am speculating he is already dead and there will be a twist in the end like Bruce Willis in "the sixth sense". But then again I am probably giving Ryan Murphy too much credit for being able to pull that off.

[buttercupia]

I think the detective is the serial killer.

[DollEyes]

I don't because two of the victims (the twins) were killed in Lowe's house and I don't think that he would subject Alex nor Scarlett to finding eviscerated corpses in their home.

 

  Re Measles Boy, I think that Alex might inject some vamp blood in him, in a misguided attempt to save him.

[wickedblender]

I don't because two of the victims (the twins) were killed in Lowe's house and I don't think that he would subject Alex nor Scarlett to finding eviscerated corpses in their home.

 

 

I don't think the dead twins were in his house. They looked to be hanging from matching BDSM beds (maybe Ryan Murphy needed to apply a tax write-off? lol) and were at an address he got from his wife's fake text. It was pretty dark in there and there were lots of quick camera cuts, so I can see why it might be confusing.

[buttercupia]

also, the text, the part Alex was supposed to have written was highlighted in blue, which on an iphone is what you get for the recipient, not the sender.

[DollEyes]

 I still don't believe that John's the killer. He might be, but knowing RM, it's probably one of two things-it's either completely true or one of RM's biggest mindfucks ever. The hints that John may be the killer seem legit, but they could also be more of RM's red herrings. John could be a fellow comrade of the killers at March's birthday party, but he could have also been invited so that he could learn to think like the real killer in order to stop them. As for John's visions, I blame the hotel. So much crazy shit has happened/is happening there it's no wonder John's seeing things.

 

  I still consider John to be one of the good guys. He may be haunted by the loss of Holden & tortured by things he's seen on his job, but until I actually see him killing those people, he's innocent until proven guilty, as far as I'm concerned.

[jnymph]

I like the notion that Sally represents addiction.  

[DollEyes]

After seeing "Room Service," I'm starting to believe that it won't be John, Ramona nor Donovan who kills The Countess-it'll be Iris. The Countess has either underestimated, ignored or abused Iris for so long that she doesn't consider Iris a threat-which would make her being destroyed by Iris the ultimate insult.  

[GoneGirl]

Or maybe it will be poor Scarlet who puts an end to her....

[Consternation]

I think the kidnapping of Holden did not really happen in the same way we have seen.  I just feel like, there would have been some witnesses if Lady Gaga had been standing around in full goth regalia, took a kid off a merry-go-round and wandered off down the beach while the dad looked at his phone for five seconds.  It seems like an overlay or euphemism for whatever really happened.

 

I'm also firmly on Team John Is Dead so if he can misremember his death he can probably do the same for some other painful experiences.

[buttercupia]

sally doesn't represent addiction. sally is an emotional vampire. she feeds off of emotion. scaring kids by crumbling her teeth, "kids are the best". staring deep into whatshisface's eyes as he's being assaulted to death, she's feeding off of strong emotions.

[GoneGirl]

So I totally think that this whole series will end up back at the murder house when it's over. I think this last episode proved it.

[HollyG]

I think the detective is the killer too.  And I'll bet we see a flash forward of him having dinner with the other killer ghosts at the end of the season.  Why else would the ghost killers have made such a point to get him to the table with them and encourage him to be his true self?  It's like they were instructing him.

Edited November 12, 2015 by HollyG

[morgankobi]

I'm also firmly on Team John Is Dead so if he can misremember his death he can probably do the same for some other painful experiences.

 

But he has a job, connections to many other people, and goes to and fro freely. That isn't possible for a "regular" dead person/ghost in this universe, right? (Since we know for sure we are in-universe with Murder House.)

[HollyG]

Did they ever say who infected The Countess?  So much had happened I can't keep it all straight.

[Anela]

I think the detective is the killer too.  And I'll bet we see a flash forward of him having dinner with the other killer ghosts at the end of the season.  Why else would the ghost killers have made such a point to get him to the table with them and encourage him to be his true self?  It's like they were instructing him.

I thought it was the writers comparing police officers to serial killers. 

Has there been anything in common between the victims? I can't remember. 

[JenE4]

Maybe Scarlet goes to the same school as the MeaselsVamps. She'll probably defeat them all before lunch, then take the bus to Hotel Cortez, slay the Countess to release mom and Holden who will turn back to normal, then battle the ghosts to save dad from March and Sally, then as the police officer picks her up to drive her to grandma's as usual, she'll solve the Ten Commandments serial killings from the backseat of the patrol car. Then the show will end with the family happily reunited at home around the dinner table, dining on grilled romaine of course. The end. Just kidding...but only slightly. Scarlett is the only one I have faith in!

[Mattipoo]

Yes Scarlet needs to be the heroine, for sure! She is the only character that is normal and sane at this point. Is the young actress who plays her a "name" actress? If so, it is quite possible she would have a bigger role in the later part of the season.

[DollEyes]

Re the Countess' fate, after last week's episode, in which she killed Tristan, Liz's true love, like she killed Ramona's true love, I'm starting to think that if anything happens to Scarlett, John might end up joining forces with Liz, Donovan, Ramona & Iris to save her & Holden & stop The Countess once & for all and if Alex dies too, then so be it.  

[qtpye]

After this last episode I am thinking that maybe the detective played by Wes Bentley is already dead and is actually reliving the loss of his son and his family over and over again through the hotel. The way he hangs out in the hotel and his behavior suggests he is in a constant dream state and his interaction with Sally seems to suggest he is stuck in time. So I am speculating he is already dead and there will be a twist in the end like Bruce Willis in "the sixth sense". But then again I am probably giving Ryan Murphy too much credit for being able to pull that off.

 

 

I think the detective is the serial killer.

 

I think you are both right.  John is dead and killed himself after he went on a rampage as a result of a mental breakdown.  The life he has been living has all been inside the walls of the Hotel Cortez, because he refuses to accept that he is dead.  He also might have murdered his family before his suicide.  He is now an infamous serial killer (have there not been hints to police being the worst killers?) and that is why he got an invitation to the Devil's Night Dinner.

[DollEyes]

 I respectfully disagree. If John's dead, then his now ex-boss, his ex-partner and Scarlett wouldn't still able to see nor hear him, plus there have been several scenes of John at work & at home outside the hotel. If John's the killer, then why haven't we seen him kill anyone yet? However, we have seen Alex infect Max, which lead to him infecting other kids and them killing adults, therefore at this point, if anyone's got blood on their hands, it's Alex, not John. John may be on the verge of a nervous breakdown, but "crazy" and "guilty" aren't mutually exclusive.

[Avaleigh]

I think John still alive and killing. He'll eventually die and be stuck at the hotel. 

 

I think the reason we haven't seen him commit any of the murders is because it's supposed to be a surprise reveal.

[GoneGirl]

I think we might be wrong about John being the 10 C killer, unless JPM is channeling through him....JPM is the one who said he wanted to kill God--so how appropriate to kill in the fashion of the 10 Commandments!

Then again I guess March is stuck in the hotel so he can't be the killer can he? Do we know if March was killed in the hotel?

[ClareWalks]

Do we know if March was killed in the hotel?

 

I believe there was an episode where he killed the maid and himself when the police raided the hotel.

[GoneGirl]

I believe there was an episode where he killed the maid and himself when the police raided the hotel.

.

Yes. You are totally right. I forgot about that. Hmm, it just seems like such an obvious clue with March saying he wanted to kill God. I guess John my have Tyler Durden syndrome aka Fight Club, but that just seems too easy and sort of lame too.

[Maximum Taco]

Any thoughts on who our last two victims are?

 

The commandments we have left are

 

Thou shalt have no other gods before me (A follower of the Countess? Alex?)

 

and

 

Thou shalt not kill (Probably John himself. I don't think AHS can resist the urge to have everything end in a nice bow with John taking his own life to complete the "masterpiece")

[GoneGirl]

Any thoughts on who our last two victims are?

The commandments we have left are

Thou shalt have no other gods before me (A follower of the Countess? Alex?)

and

Thou shalt not kill (Probably John himself. I don't think AHS can resist the urge to have everything end in a nice bow with John taking his own life to complete the "masterpiece")

Totally agree on thou shall not kill, he is totally going to kill himself. Or the Countess, after all, he hasn't found out yet that she took his son, he can't kill March because he is already dead, so maybe he finds out about Holden and goes apeshit on the Countess...or Alex....

[Chaos Theory]

The most likely for Thou shall not kill is that Jiun will kill himself so he can be with Sally because that is the show's OTP at least for me and quite possibly my happy endinng.

I am probably the only person who doesn't care about the stamina storyline. I find it boring and mildly annoying.

[TheGreenKnight]

The "No gods before me" one definitely has to be either the Countess or Alex. Alex basically abandoned her family and life itself for her son. The Countess has/had a similar god-like obsession with Valentino, plus March would probably be okay with killing her at this point.

 

Bassett's character could fit either one, since she's obsessed by revenge and plotting to kill the Countess' children.

[Captanne]

Why can't the last victim be March himself?

[Mattipoo]

Because March is dead? But maybe there is a way to kill a ghost. I wouldn't put it past this show.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Mattipoo

[Captanne]

Oh yeah.  Rats.  That's right.  Silly me.

[angeemanangee]

I think the Countess is next for worshipping other gods and then March is the last as he has killed the most people and John will inheret his power and the Hotel, perhaps with a link to Murder House somehow

[Captanne]

Or maybe for worshiping herself as a god?  Have they done pride, yet?  (I can't keep the murders straight because, honestly, zzzzzzzz.  These guys are rank amateurs compared to "Hannibal" when it comes to memorable murder scenes.)

Edited December 9, 2015 by Captanne

[Mattipoo]

I read somewhere that Lady Gaga will only be in 10 episodes so I am hoping her story arc ends soon so I don't have to suffer through her "acting" anymore. I think she has appeared in every episode so far so perhaps she gets killed in episode 10? The titles for the next 2 episodes are "She wants revenge" and "She gets revenge" so hopefully Ramona gets to kill The Countess in "She gets revenge".

[morgankobi]

I'm hoping the "she" in "She Gets Revenge" is Liz.

[Mattipoo]

Whoever the "she" is in "She gets revenge", I am okay with as long as the "revenge" in question is the killing of the Countess.

[Chaos Theory]

Ok here is my dream ending:

Final scene: Grown up Scarlet walks into the Cortez talks to whoever is at the front desk maybe Iris maybe Liz. Says that her serial killer father died in the hotel. She mentions her mother disappeared shortly after. She goes to her room and there are scenes where some of the angrier ghosts and monsters try to kill her but are stopped and Scarlet is none the wiser. Downstairs two complain about what makes this one so special but then either Iris or Liz or whoever says "The Countess" says "This one" is off limits. Finally Scarlet leaves and watching her go is John and Alex. Alex is the new Countess and is now in charge on the Hotel.

That's as far as I got. I like the imagery . A grown up Scarlet walks out and her family lets her.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[caracas1914]

I'm hoping a variation of Dorian Grey for the countess. Somehow she ages to a weathered 100 plus years and further blood feeding doesn't revitalize her, other than keep her alive. An eternal Miss Havisham at the Cortez, repulsing all who see her visage.

For someone so dependent on men and women finding her oh so irresistible, it would be such a fitting end.

[Mattipoo]

BTW did Max Greenfield sign up for this show to only appear in 1 scene in the premiere? There was so much hype over his casting so I would think his character might be featured somehow in the last couple of episodes. But maybe not.

[caracas1914]

I though Max Greefield showed up ( however briefly) in 2/3 other episodes, one where he talks with Ms. Sally, another where he kills Naomi Campbell, and then finally dies.

[Maximum Taco]

Because March is dead? But maybe there is a way to kill a ghost. I wouldn't put it past this show.

 

Even if there was a way to kill a ghost, I don't see how it would be possible to take a souvenir of the murder and put it in a glass case.

 

I think he's gonna have to kill an actual person, my bet's still on John himself.

 

Or maybe for worshiping herself as a god?  Have they done pride, yet?  (I can't keep the murders straight because, honestly, zzzzzzzz.  These guys are rank amateurs compared to "Hannibal" when it comes to memorable murder scenes.)

 

Pride is one of the seven deadly sins (Gluttony, Greed, Envy, Pride, Wrath, Sloth, Lust) for more on that check out the 1995 David Fincher movie, Seven

 

These killings are based on the 10 commandments.

 

I: Thou shalt have no other gods before me: Cultist's ears (cause apparently AHS has to do everything the boring way and kill people we don't know or care about)

II: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image: Brain (what was left) of the guy who was selling (maybe making?) award trophies and also may have been a pedophile

III: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain: Televangelist's spleen

IV: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy: Teeth from migrant workers

V: Honor thy father and thy mother: Twins' hearts who killed their parents

VI: Thou shalt not kill: ???

VII: Thou shalt not commit adultery: Adulterer's tongue and eyes

VIII: Thou shalt not steal: Thief's hand

IX: Thou shalt not bear false witness: Gossip columnist's vocal chords

X: Thou shalt not covet: Cop's genitals who coveted Alex, John's wife.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Captanne]

Oh. I was confusing my murder mysteries based on biblical lists, wasn't I.

[DollEyes]

Now that John has dumped Sally, I'm afraid that she'll retaliate by going after Scarlett.