The 'Ship Yard: Relationships: At Bay, At Sail, Anchored, Adrift, Sunken, Salvaged and Under Construction.

[BkWurm1]

Welcome to the 'Ship Yard! 

 

This is the place to discuss, dissect, compare, contrast, lament, applaud, adore and lambast any and all relationships whether friends, foes, or lovers, including AU's, slash, and all others. 

 

 

[BkWurm1]

From the Chloe Thread:

 

 

 

Well, Chloe is my favourite and don't  approve everything she did (Sebastian my main concern over the series). But, let's face it:

 

-The show made it clear that, hadn't been for Chloe, Smallville Universe wouldn't have had Superman. We just have to remember the NotWedding in Finale.

 

-She was the one that ALWAYS cared for Clark, no matter the situation (what about season 9, and in season 8 with Davis, she may have had done bad choices but she never forget Clark and his destiny to be fullfilled somehow).

 

-She resisted on loving Clark, because she knew he was in lovewith Lana, and accepted it. When she find some balance with her "love" with Jimmy she could have tried to be with Clark, but subconsciously didn't want to lose what she had with Jimmy because she knew that Clark still loved Lana.

In Season 8, after Clark lost Lana, she still loved Clark but encouraged him on moving to Lois. (bad-writting maybe?)
Somebody can argue that she had some trouble this season in terms of love: she liked Davis and loved Jimmy but still loved Clark: because we know from Abyss he was her more precious one in her life -maybe not love? If so, why was he her last memory?

 

-Clark was stupid. An stupid good-hearted hero, but stupid. Chloe, and Clark's parents: Martha, Jonathan and Jor-EL (this one with strange methods) were the ones who made him what he was. Lana and Lois also had their part, but Chloe was  there when he travelled through space and time, the one who saved him from the kryptonite, the one who knew how to discover classified information and hacked everything for him.... She was the one that put her life in peril several times and had to buy a new identity.

 

-Lois was good in her job, but Chloe lost hers while Lois won it mainly because Grant wanted her and had some luck with the tabloids. I'm not dimissing Lois skills, but Chloe is far more competent.

 

-And Clark felt in love with Lois out of a sudden...

I remember that after Requiem, that Clark wants to go back time (destroying everything he learned in Reckoning) and, if it could be possible, to the exact moment he has to pick up Lois. I also remember in 9.1 or 9.2 when he goes to Jor-El and he tells him she should stop thinking of his "beloved ones". And, wonder who is? It is Lois! Lana's thoughts had disappeared. 8 seasons disappeared.

 

 

So, these are a few reasons why, for me, in this Universe, Chloe should have been, at the end, the authentic Lois Lane. They had a problem. They tried to rewrite the show forgetting the previous seasons. It was still a good show for me (season 9 and 10) but I'd have preferred having seen those two seasons before the first 8 ones. Because it would have made more sense to me.

 

They created an artificial way of falling in love. I bought how Lois Lane fell in love with Clark, I think it was realistic, but not how Clark end up loving Lois (especially in S9, after the Lana thing, in Season 8 I thought that, although he didn't love Lois, I understood he was beginning to see her in another way). SO, after that, being in love with Lois? Not in a universe where Lana still exists. But, more importantly, not in a universe where, after having realized that, maybe, he and Lana are star-crossed lovers, the girl that had always been there to be his partner; Chloe, still was there, waiting for him.

 

At least, they should have waited until s10 to Clois, or hint at it at the very end. But the story was not important, they owe that to Clois shippers, I suppose. But what about Chlarkers??

I agree with so much of this.  Chloe is the only reason Clark is even alive let alone Superman.  I've come to the conclusion that Smallville could have easily been the tale of Chloe Sullivan, the untold story behind Superman.  Not a whole lot would have changed except if this had been her show, she probably wouldn't have been shafted in the reciprocated love part so much. 

 

I think that Chloe loved Clark and was even IN love with him the entire run of the show.  But she also matured to the point where she was able to put aside what she felt for Clark and develop real feelings for others and be genuinely supportive of Clark in his relationships.  Genuine love means loving even at your own expense, so it never puzzled me why Chloe played the part of Clark's love doctor or was head cheerleader for him in another relationship. As of the beginning of season six, Chloe took herself out of the running for Clark's heart -- mostly. 

 

By that I mean she convinced herself he was never going to be in love with her so she tried to move on.  I personally think her lack of self confidence in regards to Clark loving her sabotaged their pending romantic relationship since while apprehensive of the change in status to their friendship, it seemed clear to me when Clark returned from the Phantom Zone, he WAS expecting them to hook up but he was just too damn shy and nervous about rocking the boat to speak up.  Then Jimmy came along and I think he saw Jimmy as Chloe's chance at normal (like he'd once wanted with Lana) and he stupidly but with the best intentions, gave her up so she could be happy.  Of course Jimmy never made her more than mildly pleased. 

 

Smallville, whether intending to or not, kept writing Clark and Chloe in such a manner that again and again, there were chances for them to again see each other in a different way but each time, the writers wrenched the show off the natural path and forced it to trudge in a different direction, usually with huge continuity and tonal shifts. 

 

You mentioned that while it was believable for Lois to fall in love with Clark, they did not succeed to do the same with Clark falling for Lois.  I agree but I also think that once it was revealed to Lois who Clark really was, she no longer had reason to be in love with him and interestingly, throughout season ten, it became more and more clear that the reasons why she'd fallen for Normal Clark were not the reasons why she was with RealClark. 

 

Long before Lois fell for Clark (without knowing about his abilities) she came to see that he was essentially a good guy but she had no interest in a farmer.  Then he put on a button down dress shirt and literally in that moment she suddenly saw that he fit into her idea of what kind of man she would be interested in being with.  He was off the farm, he was dressing right, he looked good and was supportive in her career but not a threat.  She loved Oliver but wouldn't be with him because she knew that she couldn't live the rest of her life knowing the most important person in her life could never promise to always put her needs before the needs of others.  Clark Kent, cub reporter, normal decent but hot looking guy, that guy she could imagine HER happily ever after. 

 

But that's not who Clark Kent really is.  Loving Clark would be more destructive to Lois than loving Oliver, at least Oliver had the normal human limitations.  There was only so much he could be expected to do and eventually, he wouldn't be able to be the guy that pulls up the hood and goes out into the thick of things.  Clark's abilities don't come with an expiration date and his skill set is not limited to fighting off some bad guys, he could be out there every second of the day saving someone in new and different ways.  She could love him in abstract and always admire him, but Clark is destined to fail to make Lois happy.  Any love she had for the normal guy will gradually fail as again and again she's forced to realize she can't be his priority always and we already saw in season ten that she couldn't even see Clark as a human man with normal needs and desires.  He was a god to her that was wasting his time when he was with her.  She also saw him as infallible.

 

Lois had a unrealistic faith in Clark, one that was based on the idea that since he was powerful that he would always make the right choices and didn't need anyone's help.  She was fine with him not letting her into his business if that's what he wanted because she was sure he knew better. She assumed he would always succeed, but we know how often Clark has been saved by others and how frequently he would (and did) make wrong choices when left to his own devices. He wasn't real to her which means her love for the man wasn't real.  

 

Clark's love for Lois was nothing more than bad writing.  Yes, there was a build up in season eight to him CONSIDERING her in a romantic way and he chose not to go there.  Lois said show up for coffee and we'll see if there's something between us or don't and I'll know you're not interested.  Clark decided not to show up.  BUT then at the start of season nine he was suddenly so hung up on her that he forsook his humanity and apparently turned his back on anyone who had depended on him or trusted him to try and defeat Zod on his own - and failed.  But then history was changed when Lois returned and while Clark was still turning his back on his past friendships, he at least let them help him and eventually came to see how much of a mess he was and that he had been going about it all wrong.  Lois, like Lana before her, was a symptom of his delusion.  He was an all around ass to everyone BUT Lois in the first half of season 9 and there was no in show reason why he fixated on her or why her disappearance would have hit him so hard. 

 

STILL!!!!  Even if I was to accept the story as delivered in season nine, by the end of the season, he and Lois had broken up, he was planning on leaving her (and everyone) behind to save humanity but when it turned out that he got to stay, he did not go after her.  He kept an eye on her but even when she came back to Kansas, he didn't try to restart their romance.  On his own, he was ready to let that relationship die but then came Brainaic Five who told him to disregard his instincts and concerns about Lois.  Look, she's totally going to be fine keeping your secret and letting you go save the day. 

 

Brainiac Five also told Clark he needed to bury his past but it turned out that doing the very opposite of that was what he needed to do in order to be able to fly and defeat Darkseide.  Only when he embraced all his past was he able to move forward.  So it turns out that Brainic Five was giving out bad advice.  So Clark deciding to date Lois and ask her to marry him was based on what the same vey fallible machine had shown him.  We find out that still SEVEN freaking years in the future there still is no wedding. 

 

Says to me that even the show writers knew that this Lois and Clark was a bust. 

 

Season 11 was one writers illustrated fan fiction.

 

BQM can have his and I can have mine. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by BkWurm1

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm finishing up the last three episodes of Season 3, so am just hopping in to say, I'm such a sap.

 

The line from Chloe to Clark about being afraid of pushing too far and being too late to say she's sorry?

 

Clark's response? "Today is not that day." Then he pulls Chloe into a warm hug.

 

Me: awwwww. This show needs MORE ending tags with just Clark and Chloe.

 

And just finished watching Memoria. The last scene with Martha and Clark--where Clark tells her about Lara, and how Lara was the first word Clark said; and Clark telling Martha how he wished Lara could have seen and known "what a great Mom I have." And Martha's response.

 

Me: *sniff*blinkblink*sniff*

[BkWurm1]

The line from Chloe to Clark about being afraid of pushing too far and being too late to say she's sorry?

Clark's response? "Today is not that day." Then he pulls Chloe into a warm hug.

Me: awwwww. This show needs MORE ending tags with just Clark and Chloe.

I remember reading that the first draft had Clark being mad and holding a grudge. Soooooo glad they went in a different direction. Can you imagine if Clark had done something more like that at the end of Doomsday or in early season nine?

Oh, I still mourn the show we could have had.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I remember reading that the first draft had Clark being mad and holding a grudge. Soooooo glad they went in a different direction. Can you imagine if Clark had done something more like that at the end of Doomsday or in early season nine?

Oh, I still mourn the show we could have had.

 

WHAT? That makes no sense, considering the look on Clark's face when he was talking about...something (that's the problem with zipping through, you tend to forget things) and Chloe came back with, oh, like the two months you were in Metropolis, partying, stealing, etc. And Clark got this look on his face--it was like, understanding, and the anger, though not wholly gone, most of it was.  Because he could see and understand her point. I could at least see, that he wasn't going to hold a grudge, and that was halfway through the episode. And really, knowing she could die, that the injection of the anti-dote might not work? I'm glad that whoever told Drew Z. Greenberg, who wrote this episode, to not have Clark hold a grudge, because it would make him look like a SUPREME Asshole, and bad enough he ended up being that to Chloe at the end of Season 8, but this was still early in the series.

 

And ugh, why do I always come back to the Pinkness?

 

I find that I am the opposite with some--with each viewing, I do NOT end up liking Lana, or find her more bearable. The annoyance and dislike factor remains the same, if not amped up.

 

Let's start with Henry Small, shall we? Since I've unloaded about Clark, but there's more (I'll get to that later).  Here we have Lana, who has unrealistically placed her parents and their marriage on such a high pedestal, that they're basically god-like in their perfection and happiness.  So when Lana discovers that her parents were separated and that she was born a year after her mother and Henry stopped seeing each other, does she get angry at her mother, which, a normal teenager would do? No, not Lana. Nope, she is actually happy when she learns, that yes, Henry is her "father." Which, no. Mr. Lang, (I don't even know his first name or can't recall it) was your father. Henry was a sperm donor. It's like Lana was raised by her mommy without a daddy, and all these years later, she finally! finds him! Oh the joy! The showering of pink balloons and streamers!  Not to mention how she ambushed him.  And then breaking things off with him because his wife was jealous.  Poor, poor Lana. Nobody loves her. Everyone keeps abandoning her.

 

Back to Clark. I don't know if I thought this at the time, probably, but it's a recurring theme: just what exactly does Lana want from Clark? She knows he loves her; he's told her; she loves him. So what if there are things about him that she doesn't know? It's like she has to know every.single.detail. of his life for them to have a successful relationship, and it's even more eye roll worthy when you look at how old they are. They're fucking teenagers!  Another recurring theme I saw with Lana was that she kept asking how Clark felt; for Clark to "be honest" about his feelings, yet Herself didn't do the same. Oh, right. Her "story" and life was and is an open book because her wee self was on the cover of Time magazine for the whole WORLD to see, that she was the ONLY victim of the meteor showers. Did you know? That her parents were killed flattened like pancakes by the meteors?

 

When she was with Whitney, she would make goo-goo eyes at Clark; When she and Clark broke up, it wasn't because she didn't know his feelings; it was out there: he loved her, but he said he couldn't be with her because he would hurt her; so she would "hook up" for the lack of a better word, because those other guys lasted maybe a week, with Adam being the exception prior to Season 4. But she would still make goo-goo eyes at Clark; Even, Even! in Season 4, when she's returned from Paris, all of sudden this sophisticated teenager, she's still making goo-goo eyes at him, when she's with Jason!

 

Pedaling back to "Forsaken" when Clark decides not to tell Lana his secret, but tells her that he hopes she'll be happy in Paris...what does she do in "Covenant"? Why, one day before she's set to leave, she comes to the farm and says, that wasn't what he realllly wanted to tell her, was it? It's a pattern with her: tell me! tellme!tellme!tellmeeeeeeee!!!!  So much for her statement to Lex that she was the girl who was going to Paris; and not the girl who would stay "stuck" in Smallville. Gah.

 

But "Gone" did have the funniest line for me; I'd forgotten it. When Lana assumed that Clark was involved with Lois (Again, why should she care? She's with, has been with, Jason!)

 

Clark, looking confused: "Lois? She's...bossy!"

 

Lana looks at him silently.

 

Clark: "She's...rude, and....annoying. I can't STAND her!"

 

Just the way Welling said those lines and the look on his face. I won't lie; I laughed.

 

Maybe we should create a quotes thread? Hee!

[Chloe]

Amazing thread. I'm going to respond things in pieces :)

 

 

 

Long before Lois fell for Clark (without knowing about his abilities) she came to see that he was essentially a good guy but she had no interest in a farmer.  Then he put on a button down dress shirt and literally in that moment she suddenly saw that he fit into her idea of what kind of man she would be interested in being with.  He was off the farm, he was dressing right, he looked good and was supportive in her career but not a threat.  She loved Oliver but wouldn't be with him because she knew that she couldn't live the rest of her life knowing the most important person in her life could never promise to always put her needs before the needs of others.  Clark Kent, cub reporter, normal decent but hot looking guy, that guy she could imagine HER happily ever after. 

 

I agree that Lois' love for Clark was, in writing terms of a story, not the epic one we are used to from Superman. She begins falling in love with him when he changes, as you say, not before. There's nothing wrong with that, but their love is meant to be more than "I love you only when you change and become a reporter". However, we can also argue that Lois from Superman would have never loved Clark Kent the farmer, BUT, in this story, if you have two other girls that love the man in his simpliest way (the farmer), it gives less credibility to her feelings, comparing to the ones that Lana or Chloe may have had for him.

 

But that's not who Clark Kent really is.  Loving Clark would be more destructive to Lois than loving Oliver, at least Oliver had the normal human limitations.  There was only so much he could be expected to do and eventually, he wouldn't be able to be the guy that pulls up the hood and goes out into the thick of things.  Clark's abilities don't come with an expiration date and his skill set is not limited to fighting off some bad guys, he could be out there every second of the day saving someone in new and different ways.  She could love him in abstract and always admire him, but Clark is destined to fail to make Lois happy.  Any love she had for the normal guy will gradually fail as again and again she's forced to realize she can't be his priority always and we already saw in season ten that she couldn't even see Clark as a human man with normal needs and desires.  He was a god to her that was wasting his time when he was with her.  She also saw him as infallible.

I believe that Lois was more in love with the Red-Blue Blur than with Clark. I think she believed that being with the Blur would be perfect-because she is a woman of action, and Clark lacked of this. That's, I think, one of the reasons why they broke up (IIRC), and only when she discovers that Clark is The Red-Blue Bur she is happy enough with that relationship. That's another point for Chloe or Lana and one against Lois. BUT, I kind of liked that, because this Lois (loving Superman) is the one I recognise, also.

 

 

But that's not who Clark Kent really is.  Loving Clark would be more destructive to Lois than loving Oliver, at least Oliver had the normal human limitations.  There was only so much he could be expected to do and eventually, he wouldn't be able to be the guy that pulls up the hood and goes out into the thick of things.  Clark's abilities don't come with an expiration date and his skill set is not limited to fighting off some bad guys, he could be out there every second of the day saving someone in new and different ways.  She could love him in abstract and always admire him, but Clark is destined to fail to make Lois happy.  Any love she had for the normal guy will gradually fail as again and again she's forced to realize she can't be his priority always and we already saw in season ten that she couldn't even see Clark as a human man with normal needs and desires.  He was a god to her that was wasting his time when he was with her.  She also saw him as infallible.

Well, the same I have said. You've come up with something I didn't mention before: Oliver.

 

I was a Oliver-Lois shipper. (and I suppose I am :) ). I think that Oliver is a good match for Chloe, but in my opinion Oli is the kind of guy that would have been perfect for Smallville Lois. Analysis on Oliver and Lois are welcome!!!!!

 

 

STILL!!!!  Even if I was to accept the story as delivered in season nine, by the end of the season, he and Lois had broken up, he was planning on leaving her (and everyone) behind to save humanity but when it turned out that he got to stay, he did not go after her.  He kept an eye on her but even when she came back to Kansas, he didn't try to restart their romance.  On his own, he was ready to let that relationship die but then came Brainaic Five who told him to disregard his instincts and concerns about Lois.  Look, she's totally going to be fine keeping your secret and letting you go save the day.

 

We find out that still SEVEN freaking years in the future there still is no wedding.

OMG....Brainiac 5!!!!! Episode 10.5? While I think it's not  a bad episode, and brought good memories from previous seasons ...also Lana's (which, for me were like...OH.....he stills thinks of her...) I buy what you say that he is one of the tools the writers use to accelerate Clois. I think that in that episode they wanted to show that Lois was the one (did they say something about you are the one?) and that dancing with her is what makes him be free. At first, they play with the ambiguosity that Clark still thinks of Lana (and there's also her flashback), but, that, at the end, she choses Lois. There is also the moment when Clark thinks of Chloe that was.....superb.

 

Well, I don't fully agree with this premise we are "told". That flashback made me wonder all season 10 whether he chose Lois because he was fine with her and because Lana wasn't there. They shouldn't have used that if they wanted Clois. There's also the fact that Lois goes to the reunion and is upset because anybody recognises her. I didn't like that. That is another point that makes me wonder why are we supposed to root for Lois if she is so annoying and that reunion makes us remember with which girls did Clark really have a story and progression.

 

Maybe I'm saying that  because I'm a Clana shipper, but, in my defense, I want to say a couple of things: I also think that for Cloisers, as a whole, was a beautiful episode and ending. And also, that I'm more a Chlark shipper than a Clana one:)

 

And yes.....after 7 years they haven't married yet. Even the writers were not so sure of Clark's feelings....

Edited October 13, 2015 by Chloe

[Chloe]

 

Back to Clark. I don't know if I thought this at the time, probably, but it's a recurring theme: just what exactly does Lana want from Clark? She knows he loves her; he's told her; she loves him. So what if there are things about him that she doesn't know? It's like she has to know every.single.detail. of his life for them to have a successful relationship, and it's even more eye roll worthy when you look at how old they are. They're fucking teenagers!  Another recurring theme I saw with Lana was that she kept asking how Clark felt; for Clark to "be honest" about his feelings, yet Herself didn't do the same. Oh, right. Her "story" and life was and is an open book because her wee self was on the cover of Time magazine for the whole WORLD to see, that she was the ONLY victim of the meteor showers. Did you know? That her parents werekilled flattened like pancakes by the meteors?

I agree. She keeps asking Clark, maybe too much. That’s one of the things I didn’t like about her. However, we have to take into consideration that she is constantly saved by him in strange ways and that she sees in his eyes that he is hiding something huge. She thinks that she is not good enough for him because he doesn't trust her enough. And she is an insecure person, so that makes her stop loving him in her head, though not in her heart as we know.

 

If I had to put the three relationships in perspective, I'd say that Clark and Lois are a good couple, down to earth, but boring and a second choice for each other. It doesn't work in Smallville after the previous 8 seasons.

 

However, Lana and Clark are soul mates: they genuinely love each other (maybe in the first seasons is a puppy love but, finally they learn what true love is), but also star-crossed lovers: they will never get together, no matter how much they try. But they try a lot, I mean, if they hadn't loved each other they wouldn't have had that soap opera. So, in terms of writing, there's no reason to believe that Lana and Clark will NEVER try to be together again, at some point in their lives. However, maybe, in a future, they would realize that they are not perfect for each other and that Clark's soulmate is not Lana (I could buy it). When I watched Smallville, I wanted them to be together (except when Chloe had her possible chance) but in S7 I was a bit tired of their "will-they-won't-they" relationship. It's like at that moment, I didn't root for Clana anymore. There's a reason, I wanted Chlark so hard to happen :).

Anyway, I really felt that their story was falling apart, which was what the writers made us believe. However, in the second part of S7, and, especially, in the last episodes, I changed my mind a bit. I thought that Clana could be real again, because their acting and on-screen chemistry made me believe that they still loved each other. So, I told to myself; well, I think I'm again a Clana shipper (but more a Chlark). And, after the events of first part of S8, when Lana returned, I became a Clana shipper again. It did work. And their last scene in Requiem, is, in my opinion, one of the the best moments from Smallville. It was SO WELL-DONE.

 

 

 

Smallville, whether intending to or not, kept writing Clark and Chloe in such a manner that again and again, there were chances for them to again see each other in a different way but each time, the writers wrenched the show off the natural path and forced it to trudge in a different direction, usually with huge continuity and tonal shifts.

As you say, their story progressed in such a way that their friendship became unbreakable, even with the arc in S9. Everything moved so naturally. It really could have worked....and genuinely would have been better in my opinion that a race towards Lois.

 

After saying this, I'm going to say that it was a good ending for Clana, but that was Chloe's moment, not Lois. Clark chose Lana over Lois in Bride and there's no reason why he would change his mind 360º to love Lois. He should have remained single until the very end, and a progression towards a definitive relationship with Chloe should have happened, in terms of cohesion with the overall story (10 seasons).

Moreover, the way they are written, and the chemistry between Allison and Tom would have made me believe that they were true soul-mates (though not star-crossed) ---> the best of Clana AND tangible, down-to-earth partners (though not boring)---> the best of CLois.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Chloe

[Gilmorefan]

Will reply to posts later (going to try to defend Clois... We'll see how that goes) but Lois's scenes with the blur never fail to make me smile. She and Clark both light up when they're talking to each other, and it's really adorable

[BkWurm1]

Will reply to posts later (going to try to defend Clois... We'll see how that goes) but Lois's scenes with the blur never fail to make me smile. She and Clark both light up when they're talking to each other, and it's really adorable

Looking forward for to your defense because I play a much better offense.  :D  Also, if you remember when that scene specifically happened, I will try and rewatch it for the sake of an unbiased interpretation since my memory of Lois and Clark does not include them lighting up around each other. 

[Gilmorefan]

I want to say it was Stiletto. It was the first time they ever talked as Lois and "the blur".

[BkWurm1]

However, Lana and Clark are soul mates: they genuinely love each other (maybe in the first seasons is a puppy love but, finally they learn what true love is), but also star-crossed lovers: they will never get together, no matter how much they try. But they try a lot, I mean, if they hadn't loved each other they wouldn't have had that soap opera.

 

 

Lana and Clark had a complicated relationship.  I don't deny that they were in love, but I do believe that they were more in love with the imaginary person they'd wanted the other person to be and then later with the notion that they SHOULD be together far more than they were ever in love with the real person.  They were IMO the root cause of why they were star crossed.  They had their chances to be with each other again and again and again but they kept making choices that ruined it for each other.  It seems like the universe is conspiring against them but in reality it's something they have done that leads to whatever it is that gets between them.

[Gilmorefan]

I don't see Lana and Clark as soulmates at all. I agree with BkWurm, they both loved the image of the other person they had built up. Ultimately they were both way better off without each other

[Chloe]

In regards to Clana, I think that  -themselves on their own- were not the only reason why they constantly broke up.. In s2 we have the effects of red kryptonite, in s5 Lana sees how Clark is hooking up with another girl (because of Lex) and there's also the Recnkoning effect, because he has to lie to her. In S6 Lana, who thinks that Clark does not love her anymore, makes a bad choice: Lex, who had been constantly lurking her since season 2-season 3, waiting for his moment (anyway, Lexana was interesting for the plot!) but they can't forget how they love eachother. And in S8 it's also Lex's fault. In my opinion, it's not until the last seasons: S6, S7 and S8 when I actually can see them as soul-mates, so I can agree with both of you that it's not that they are clearly connected to each other SINCE the beginning, and they may love the image of each other in the first seasons, but In my humble opinion, at the end -and especially in the second part of S7 when they put into perspective the past, the present and future-  they show real love for each other. (Real love=the ones they will love no matter what happens from now on=soul-mates after all that has happened). That's what I thought it at this point of the story.

However, as I've said, the one that is not only the real soul-mate (the one that SURELY would last an entire life -and that reminds me of Hawman's story) but also a perfect/healthy match  for him is and will be Chloe, she was the one that loved Clark more (more than Lana or Lois) but, sadly, he didn't acknowledge his feelings for her and didn't develop them as much as he did for Lana (who is his first choice) or eventually Lois, (who is to me his second choice in his heart and a woman he starts to feel very attracted to and even ends up loving -with very bad writing).

 

Chloe and Clark wouldn't have had the star-crossed effect of Clana (despite them loving eachother a lot) and Chloe would be better for Clark than Lois because they are more alike in terms of personality and objectives in life, and Chloe would love the man, not only the Superman, something than Lois doesn't do : she is more in love with Superman than Clark, and thinks that Clark is Ok for her because NOW she has discovered he is also a hero. Chloe was aware of him being a hero, but loved the man first with all his simple traits. (Lana also did love both the man and the hero but she lacks of something Chloe and Clark have: a strong friendship).

Edited October 15, 2015 by Chloe

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not sure what you been by "lurking" when you refer to Lex, but since I'm watching again, I can see it wasn't until around Season 4, that Lex starts to see Lana as someone he has feelings for. For the first two seasons, he was doing everything he could so that Clark would have a chance with Lana; even in Season 3.

 

And like others, I don't see them as soul mates at all. If they were soul mates, no WAY would Lana have been fooled by Bizarro, pretending to be Clark. They never really knew who they were. Just in love with the idealized person they created in their minds, or what BkWurm stated upthread.

 

And I started season 5 last night, so I'll put this here.  I think we talked about this over on TWoP, but it seems the show runners/writers didn't have a Show Bible to reference; it's the only explanation for continuity/canon mistakes.  Like how could Clark have sex when he had his powers? Was it possible? And when he and Lana do have sex, when both of them have powers, it's like an Earthquake was happening. Maybe they did it for laughs, I don't know. Or that Clark and Lana finally had sex when he didn't have his powers. Which is stupid. Because in Season 3, we had that episode where we learned that Clark was sent to the Kents, because Jor-El had come to Earth 50 years ago, where he met and fell in "love" with Lana's great-aunt, the cheating wife. The Earth did not tremble.

 

And back to Chloe, I guess we see what we want to see through our own prism, because no, there was no jealousy that I could detect in "Blank" where Clark lost his memory. When Chloe looked at Clark, after he saw Lana (and BkWurm called it--it was lust, not love he felt), I just saw sadness, not jealousy. I've seen Chloe jealous. We all have. The look in her eyes, on her face, was just sadness that Clark would never look at her that way. Same thing in "Spirit" at the prom.

 

And now let's talk about fathers and sons and what an uber ARSEHOLE Jor-El's sentient being is. One would think he though he was actually alive and not composed of the real Jor-El's memories and thoughts, the way he tried to control and manipulate and punish Clark. We learned that both Lara and Jor-El loved Clark when they put him in that ship and sent him to Earth. So to hear this "Jor-El" dismiss love as a "human flaw" and beneath them, is stupid, not to mention contradictory. As much as I loved hearing Terrance Stamp (Zod from the Superman movies) portraying Jor-El, I hated this Jor-El with every fiber of my being.  Narcissistic, arrogant asshole. Thinking that "one day" Clark would call him "Father" when he's DEAD. I really wish Clark had told him that he would never call him that,when he was inhabiting Lionel's body.  This being was responsible for all kinds of shit, murder, etc., so to have him suddenly turn into this gentle, loving being in the series finale made me see red and suffer rage blackouts. Because we know that Jor-El himself suffered from the "fatal flaw" of loving a human, and not wanting to do as his father wanted; that his clone, played by Julian Sands, was a good man; a man who wasn't a sociopath, like the sentient AI Jor-El that insisted on "training" Clark throughout the entire series.

 

And Clark, that BDA, never even once, sat down to think why he never told Lana about his powers. That should have told him right then and there, he didn't really trust her, ergo, she wasn't meant for him. 

 

Just like Chloe said to him at the end of "Blank" after Clark regained his memory--during the amnesiac time, Clark did everything the same EXCEPT for one thing. Poor Clark was all worried--what did he do? What did he say?

 

Chloe: "You trusted me."

 

The look on Clark's face was priceless.

[Chloe]

IN the first two seasons Lex doesn't feel anything for Lana, but I think it's before S4 that he feels he's in love with her. I watched it a long time ago, so I don't remember it exactly, but I'd say it is between S2 and S3. In the last episode of S3, Lex doesn't clearly want to "steal" Lana from Clark but makes a step forward in their relationship when he goes to the airport with her. It's at that point that Lex and Clark are no longer friends, and he thinks that he no longer has to respect Clark's feelings if he feels the same for Lana. That's because I think that Lex began to have a crush for Lana back in late S2/S3. In the final episode we are shown that he cares a lot about Lana  and in S4 he is totally obsessed with her. He had been waiting for his opportunity at least a whole season. We can not say that he falls for her in 2/3 episodes, because it happens gradually.

 

Chloe may not show jeaulosy in S4 except for the first episodes and the Dance (I don't remember the episode, is it Spirit?), but when she tells him "That's the girl of your dreams" or something like that to amnesiac Clark, she is sad and also jealous. I agree with you that she doesn't show to the viewers that she is jealous, but we could assume that, considering what happened in S4, and in the next seasons. That is what I was referring to. I know it's a subjective opinion, but still plausible. 

 

Then there's Bizarro. Well, I know that Lana not recognising Clark can be a reason to demonstarte that they are not soulmates, but in that point of S7, the viewers are supposed to think that Clana ship is sinking. I also thought the same (and was a Clana shipper). But then they make up again. On Lana's defense I'd say that even Chloe doesn't discover the real identity of False Clark very fast (though faster than Lana, because the relationship between Clark and Chloe is stronger).

And despite of the fact that amnesic Clark falls in love with Lana because she is beautiful, it's not everything about the looks: Clark and Lana decide to live together but they know that their sexual life would be very limited. If they based their relationship only, or mostly on the physical aspect they wouldn't have been together all that time.

 

But I agree that there are a lot of plot holes. Everything related to Clark and Lana's sex life and how Jor-EL didn't have that problem, and then, after all the problems he had with Lana, then Jor-El tells him how to do it with Lois. (Thanks to the writers, that father-and-son talk happened offscreen, ---it would have been really weird).

Edited October 15, 2015 by Chloe

[Chloe]

Just like Chloe said to him at the end of "Blank" after Clark regained his memory--during the amnesiac time, Clark did everything the same EXCEPT for one thing. Poor Clark was all worried--what did he do? What did he say?

Chloe: "You trusted me."

The look on Clark's face was priceless.

 

Oh yes...That moment summarised what Chloe had been waiting for all those years.....

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well, I am watching these episodes again, and for me (and then I'll lay it to rest), If Chloe is jealous, then I expect to see that she is jealous, like she expressed in the early seasons. I'm not going to "assume" she is jealous. And that's why I think it's just sadness. I know what jealousy looks like, and Chloe wasn't showing me that.

 

I thought the Clark and Lana relationship should have been tossed in the trash by the end of the first season, when Clark finally decided that yes, he does have feelings for Chloe that are more than just those of friendship. 

 

And clearly, we aren't going to agree on the whole soulmate/love thing between Clark and Lana, so I'm just going to step away from it, since I've already stated why I don't think they are. I'd rather just talk about the other relationships of other characters as well.

 

And I don't believe that Clark pursuing Lana was what kept Lex from pursuing Lana. No. It was some time during season 4, when she returned as this sophisticated Lana that I think piqued his interest. Because she 17 to his 23, which, no, still gave me heebie jeebies. Not to mention she looks like a child next to him.  Though I think, by the time Lex and Lana do get together, it's really Zod at the end, Lana has matured emotionally by then, and she's 19, so it's not as bad.

 

The whole how can Clark have sex when he has super powers is just beyond stupid, and I lay that all on the writers' feet, since they themselves did show us that it was possible. And with humans!

 

ETA:

 

Oh yes...That moment summarised what Chloe had been waiting for all those years.....

 

EXCEPT, that Chloe didn't see that look on Clark's face. She had turned around and walked away. We, the viewers saw it! Hee.

Edited October 15, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[Athena]

IN the first two seasons Lex doesn't feel anything for Lana, but I think it's before S4 that he feels he's in love with her. I watched it a long time ago, so I don't remember it exactly, but I'd say it is between S2 and S3. In the last episode of S3, Lex doesn't clearly want to "steal" Lana from Clark but makes a step forward in their relationship when he goes to the airport with her. It's at that point that Lex and Clark are no longer friends, and he thinks that he no longer has to respect Clark's feelings if he feels the same for Lana. That's because I think that Lex began to have a crush for Lana back in late S2/S3. In the final episode we are shown that he cares a lot about Lana  and in S4 he is totally obsessed with her. He had been waiting for his opportunity at least a whole season. We can not say that he falls for her in 2/3 episodes, because it happens gradually.

 

We are Lex/Lana shippers so I know where you are coming from. I believe Lex found Lana attractive as far back as S1, but she was too young for him. As their friendship and business partnership developed when he bought the Talon, he started to like her a bit more. I think he actively encouraged Clana because Lex did care for both of them and wanted them happy. However, as time progressed, him and Clark's friendship deteriorated, Lex and Lana became closer which resulted in his feelings for her in S3 and beyond.

 

I think Chloe had the best chemistry with Oliver. After that, Clark. I always felt that Chloe could do better than Clark who just pined so much for Lana and would eventually be paired with Lois.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think Chloe had the best chemistry with Oliver. After that, Clark. I always felt that Chloe could do better than Clark who just pined so much for Lana and would eventually be paired with Lois.

 

Ah! Athena FINALLY steps in! Hee.

 

I think Allison, like Tom, had chemistry with everyone/everything.  Hell, I remember saying how Tom had more chemistry with Shelby than he did with Erica, but he did have the chemistry, just not the romantic kind. It was more sibling like until maybe the 8th season. At least for me,.

 

And I know it sounds like I'm a hard core shipper, but I really am not. Okay, maybe I am and didn't know it. All I knew, at the time, was that Clark and Chloe should have been given a chance. I didn't need them to stay together forever.  And since this show was about Clark before he became Superman, I knew that he wouldn't end up with Lana or Chloe, but preferred him with Chloe. So didn't want Lois in this universe, because in canon, they don't meet until Clark goes to work for The Daily Planet. I could maybe have eventually accepted that had the show runners, both original and the hacks that took over, treated this show as an Alternate Universe. That way, I wouldn't have been pulling my hair out over the more egregious crap.  And yes, I'm a hypocrite, because the Lex and Clark friendship is one of the "didn't happen" not canon! things I thoroughly enjoyed and loved until it imploded.  Really, when they weren't in Smallville anymore, the show should have been cancelled and spun off to be called Metropolis.

Edited October 15, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[Chloe]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Lex thought that Lana was too young for him, but before thinking seriously about her, he was a Clana shipper, because he really was friends with Clark and wanted the best for them. There's a period of time, in S3 that Lex and Lana become even closer, and maybe, at that point, he begins to have a crush for her, but, because of the fact that she is still to young for him and also, that there is his friendship with Clark that he doesn't want to make a move. So I'd say that it's before Lana returns from Paris, more sophisticated but not a long time ago, so...S3. I think that in the airport he has a little crush on her, but not up to the point of thinking about it seriously. But we can compare their dynamics in the airport scene, and back in S2 and they are closer.

 

I also think that the writers played with the viewers with the different ships. I mean, Clark is paired with almost everyone, even with Tess (i liked it too) and I was comparing also how Chloe can "love" at the same time Clark, Jimmy and Davis. Ok, we are human, and everything is not black or white, but...how can Chloe encourage Clark (in S8) to be with Lana again and also with Lois, a couple of episodes after? They were playing with us, LOL.

 

I like Chloe's chemistry with Oliver. They make a good couple. However, I prefer Oliver with Lois. I think they are more alike.

[Chloe]

 

Ah! Athena FINALLY steps in! Hee.

 

I think Allison, like Tom, had chemistry with everyone/everything.  Hell, I remember saying how Tom had more chemistry with Shelby than he did with Erica, but he did have the chemistry, just not the romantic kind. It was more sibling like until maybe the 8th season. At least for me,.

 

And I know it sounds like I'm a hard core shipper, but I really am not. Okay, maybe I am and didn't know it. All I knew, at the time, was that Clark and Chloe should have been given a chance. I didn't need them to stay together forever.  And since this show was about Clark before he became Superman, I knew that he wouldn't end up with Lana or Chloe, but preferred him with Chloe. So didn't want Lois in this universe, because in canon, they don't meet until Clark goes to work for The Daily Planet. I could maybe have eventually accepted that had the show runners, both original and the hacks that took over, treated this show as an Alternate Universe. That way, I wouldn't have been pulling my hair out over the more egregious crap.  And yes, I'm a hypocrite, because the Lex and Clark friendship is one of the "didn't happen" not canon! things I thoroughly enjoyed and loved until it imploded.  Really, when they weren't in Smallville anymore, the show should have been cancelled and spun off to be called Metropolis.

Yes!! Tom had chemistry with everyone on set. (even with ED!! They are a good couple and yhey have good moments  if we forget the previous 8 season and cohesion). That's why I think they played a lot with the different ships. because this show gave a lot of importance on romance stuff. 

 

But Smallville did become an alternate universe....but they resisted on changing the outcome of Clois....They should have let the storyline progress in a natural way. I also think that Chlark should have happened, not only because it's my number 1. ship in the show, but also because, naturally, it was this that made the more sense, especially after S8.

[DigitalCount]

Chlark couldn't happen though, because how do you break them up without killing Chloe? There was no way to do that without making it ridiculous that at some point they'd grow apart.

[screamin]

I think Chloe had the best chemistry with Oliver. After that, Clark. I always felt that Chloe could do better than Clark who just pined so much for Lana and would eventually be paired with Lois.

 

I myself would put Davis just a bit ahead of Oliver there - the fact that they had such relatively little time and interaction to show that chemistry made it all the more compelling that they conveyed it so well in those few scenes.

[BkWurm1]

Chlark couldn't happen though, because how do you break them up without killing Chloe? There was no way to do that without making it ridiculous that at some point they'd grow apart.

Simple.  You don't and Chloe takes on the pen name Lois Lane.  There.  All better. 

 

It really is frustrating to me since there were so many cries of they'd never mislead the audience like that but essentially it's what they did with Henry James.  Everyone thought he was THE Jimmy Olsen and suddenly, nope!  But the swerve for him was so much more out of the blue than the one for Chloe to Chlois would have been.  I know, I know, dead horse but it's still a storyline that had they gone all in on from the start, I think everyone would have been so much happier with. 

 

If you want a non-Chlois answer, you make them want different things.  Give Chloe a chance to see that world and be a top reporter and live all her dreams and Clark convinced he has to stay in Metropolis.  The DP was her dream as a child but it would make sense for her to have bigger dreams as she got older.  Or she could have gotten stuck in a parallel universe.  Or permanent amnesia (which is as bad as death IMO)  Or again, kept them together and say screw comic history he's going to fall in love with Wonder Woman in the new comic reboot anyway so who cares if the reporter love of his life has a different name in some tv show.   

Edited October 16, 2015 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

And since this show was about Clark before he became Superman, I knew that he wouldn't end up with Lana or Chloe, but preferred him with Chloe. So didn't want Lois in this universe, because in canon, they don't meet until Clark goes to work for The Daily Planet. I could maybe have eventually accepted that had the show runners, both original and the hacks that took over, treated this show as an Alternate Universe. That way, I wouldn't have been pulling my hair out over the more egregious crap.  And yes, I'm a hypocrite, because the Lex and Clark friendship is one of the "didn't happen" not canon! things I thoroughly enjoyed and loved until it imploded.  Really, when they weren't in Smallville anymore, the show should have been cancelled and spun off to be called Metropolis.

 

Despite Clark not putting on the tights or cape til the very end, he hit all the other milestones that Superman checks off along the way.  Meeting and forming a league, dealing with famous enemies, being the city's hero.  This was not Superboy but Superman retold without the costume and in his teens.  It's a distinction that even the show creators got confused over but it should have allowed for the show to carve out it's own timeline. I never objected to Clark meeting Lois when he's so much younger, just that the Lois they gave us never felt like what the real Lois Lane's younger self would have been like.  The Lois we met should have been destined to join the Navy Seals or become a photo journalist because while she liked the travel and the adventure it was never plausible that THAT person was any good with reading let alone writing. 

[BkWurm1]

In regards to Clana, I think that  -themselves on their own- were not the only reason why they constantly broke up.. In s2 we have the effects of red kryptonite, in s5 Lana sees how Clark is hooking up with another girl (because of Lex) and there's also the Recnkoning effect, because he has to lie to her. In S6 Lana, who thinks that Clark does not love her anymore, makes a bad choice: Lex, who had been constantly lurking her since season 2-season 3, waiting for his moment (anyway, Lexana was interesting for the plot!) but they can't forget how they love eachother. And in S8 it's also Lex's fault. In my opinion, it's not until the last seasons: S6, S7 and S8 when I actually can see them as soul-mates, so I can agree with both of you that it's not that they are clearly connected to each other SINCE the beginning, and they may love the image of each other in the first seasons, but In my humble opinion, at the end -and especially in the second part of S7 when they put into perspective the past, the present and future-  they show real love for each other. (Real love=the ones they will love no matter what happens from now on=soul-mates after all that has happened). That's what I thought it at this point of the story.

 

I don't dispute that they really loved each other by the time they finally got together in season seven and beyond, but I do put limits on the depth and strength and basis. 

 

And what I meant by they were the root of their own destruction is that if being together was ever the top priority, they could have made it happen.  My memory is fuzzy on early season stuff but going into season three, it was Clark that decided to put on the RedK ring and ride off rather than deal with Jor-El or stay and face the fallout for what he'd done.  Same at the end of the season.  He chose to follow NotKara into the wall.  And if keeping Lana from leaving was really so important, then why did he keep putting off that conversation?  As it was had he not forgotten her, being side tracked by his own personal angst (that he put priority over Lana) then best case scenario, he was still only coming clean with her as she was about to get on a plane and go to Paris.  His timing would have stunk. 

 

And Clark is the one that decided to break up with Lana and let her think he didn't care.  He tried telling her once but she managed to give up his secret and get herself killed in 24 hours.  He didn't trust what they had enough to risk it again even though he could have surely warned her and specifically mentioned not going and seeing Lex.  Or maybe the truth was he didn't think she could handle his secret.  Even in season eight, the only reason they were not together was because Lana tried to get powers.  Otherwise Clark was right there with all his feelings and even if he was hesitant, she could have convinced him, but instead she was more interested in making sure she could never get hurt again.  Her own actions led to their separation. 

 

It's stuff like that that makes me insist that it was themselves and not the universe keeping them apart. 

[Chloe]

I don't dispute that they really loved each other by the time they finally got together in season seven and beyond, but I do put limits on the depth and strength and basis. 

 

And what I meant by they were the root of their own destruction is that if being together was ever the top priority, they could have made it happen.  My memory is fuzzy on early season stuff but going into season three, it was Clark that decided to put on the RedK ring and ride off rather than deal with Jor-El or stay and face the fallout for what he'd done.  Same at the end of the season.  He chose to follow NotKara into the wall.  And if keeping Lana from leaving was really so important, then why did he keep putting off that conversation?  As it was had he not forgotten her, being side tracked by his own personal angst (that he put priority over Lana) then best case scenario, he was still only coming clean with her as she was about to get on a plane and go to Paris.  His timing would have stunk. 

 

And Clark is the one that decided to break up with Lana and let her think he didn't care.  He tried telling her once but she managed to give up his secret and get herself killed in 24 hours.  He didn't trust what they had enough to risk it again even though he could have surely warned her and specifically mentioned not going and seeing Lex.  Or maybe the truth was he didn't think she could handle his secret.  Even in season eight, the only reason they were not together was because Lana tried to get powers.  Otherwise Clark was right there with all his feelings and even if he was hesitant, she could have convinced him, but instead she was more interested in making sure she could never get hurt again.  Her own actions led to their separation. 

 

It's stuff like that that makes me insist that it was themselves and not the universe keeping them apart. 

Well, in the early seasons, as I pointed out, their love wasn't mature enough. But in S8 it wasn't Lana's fault, it was because Lex wanted to destroy them and he knew Lana's intentions from the beginning, just: I want to make her believe this suit is super powerful so she will steal that from me and then they will know it's kryptonite absorbing. However, there was bad writing, she should have fighted even with the suirt to be with him (blue kryptonite, Jor-El's helps....etc) but because KK had to leave the show they made it happen this way. Anyway, what doesn't make sense is that, Clark doesn't convince her more to stay (though he tries) but then he travels to the past again because everybody knows his secret a few episodes after- that was ridiculous, He knew the consequences of time travelling, so that was very stupid and bad writing. Furthermore, he doesn't use it again in S9 to save Jimmy from death which is even worse, given that he used it a few episodes before. So Clark isn't coherent with his actons 3 times in almost the same season; so I regret nothing about Lana's speech in Requiem.

 

LOL....That reminds me how how stupid was Clark.....

Edited October 16, 2015 by Chloe

[Chloe]

Simple.  You don't and Chloe takes on the pen name Lois Lane.  There.  All better. 

 

It really is frustrating to me since there were so many cries of they'd never mislead the audience like that but essentially it's what they did with Henry James.  Everyone thought he was THE Jimmy Olsen and suddenly, nope!  But the swerve for him was so much more out of the blue than the one for Chloe to Chlois would have been.  I know, I know, dead horse but it's still a storyline that had they gone all in on from the start, I think everyone would have been so much happier with. 

 

 

Doing Henry James which was absolutely gratuitous and not doing Chlois was also very stupid. I read on an interview that Aaron Ashmore did want to continue in the show so it was not a writing decision to make him leave, like what they did with KK in Requiem, for example.

 

Maybe they wanted to get rid of Jimmy Olsen or didn't like Aaron Ashmore anymore, or maybe it was a decision from the new producers but telling the audience that they are destroying JJimmy Olsen only because AGE doesn't match in an Alternate Universe like Smallville where Clark and Lex are friends, there is Choe and Lois meets Clark in high school; is like an insult to the viewers.

 

They could have done Chlois. I mean, maybe they wanted to give ED the full potential by letting her do her version of Clois, but by doing it with the current Lois destroyed the overalll cohesion of the soty (I know I'm repeating the same all the time in this thread and others, but it's very important).

 

And I really liked Jimmy as Jimmy Olsen. He was Jimmy Olsen. Not liked him being with Chloe, but he acted like a Jimmy Olsen. Come on.

 

//sorry for my spelling I'm using a tablet

Edited October 16, 2015 by Chloe

[Gilmorefan]

The physical aspect of their relationship was obviously important to Lana, because she can't be around Clark if she can't touch him, which isn't exactly an indicator of some great love.

Clark: Don't leave. Don't leave again, Lana. Even if we can't be together, I want you in my life.

Lana: That's where you're stronger than me. To... to see you... on the street every day... And not be able to touch Y... stay. No. Clark, don't. Clark.

Anyway, I said earlier that I would try to defend Clois. And then I realized that I'm not really sure why people don't like them, so if anyone would like to chime in and give me some reasons, I think I'd be able to construct a defense.

[Chloe]

The physical aspect of their relationship was obviously important to Lana, because she can't be around Clark if she can't touch him, which isn't exactly an indicator of some great love.

Clark: Don't leave. Don't leave again, Lana. Even if we can't be together, I want you in my life.

Lana: That's where you're stronger than me. To... to see you... on the street every day... And not be able to touch Y... stay. No. Clark, don't. Clark.

 

Agree. Their love was not only based on the physical aspect (it was the less important part when they grow and become more mature) but being with eachother around it is important for both of them (well, any relationship wants that if it is possible).

 

 

Anyway, I said earlier that I would try to defend Clois. And then I realized that I'm not really sure why people don't like them, so if anyone would like to chime in and give me some reasons, I think I'd be able to construct a defense.

My reasons are that there is much base for Chlark than for Clois, if we consider Smallville their iwn Alternative Universe. They have been through a lot of things together, Chloe shows inconditional love for Clark in all aspects of his life: the simple farmer boy, the man, the hero (in which she is the one who more believes in, even more than Lois or Lana do) and their love wouldn't feel so rushed.

 

In the case of Lana, they also have shown in 8 seasons (but specially in the last 1 and a half ones) that they love each other a lot. Anyway, I firmly believe that Chloe is the one who could be competing with Lois in the debate of which girl should he chose now that Lana (after s8) left because of KK.

 

It's not that I dislike Clois, Their relationship grows also naturally, at first they "hate" eachother, then become friends, and, after that, lovers. This type of relationship the "Pride and Prejudice one", which is very common in fictional stories (and sometime sin real life) is something that I don't dislike However, we have Chloe around, and it's difficult for me to believe in Clois as an epic relationship with  Chloe and Clark issues unresolved and with their friendship growing fonder and fonder season after season (Let's forget what they did in S9, however, they couldalso have had Chlark and not Lois after that). Moreover, Clois was too rushed in the show, especially for Clark.

 

Someone could argue that a girl and a boy can only be best friends and I agree with them (I have important firiendly relationships with boys) and, thus, that make them become lovers would be artificial. Well, they have a base for their friendship to grow more and realise they love eachother (Chloe had feelings for Clark). And, In my humble opinion, Lois and Clark relationship, was more based on how attractive they consider eachother than on a fully grown friendship. Something that Chlark had, and for me, is more epic.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Chloe

[Gilmorefan]

True, Chloe does unconditionally love Clark, but so does Lois. Lois has also been the one to encourage him, not only as a hero but also as Clark. It was her who encouraged him to stop moping around a farm and actually do something with his life. This isn't to take away from Chloe at all, but she supported him no matter what he did and sometimes that can be a bad thing.

I'll concede Clois was rushed from Clark's side, but imo it was consistently developed from Lois's side. They jumped on the great love train a bit too fast, but (and I'm totally biased because I ship them) I didn't mind.

I guess the thing about Chlark that bothers me is that Clark never went after Chloe. He let her dictate their relationship. If he really had feelings for her, he would have gone after her. He did it for Lana and Lois. In season nine, Lois tells Clark they should go back to being just friends/partners and a couple of episodes later he's kissing her and they're becoming a couple. Chloe definitely loved Clark, but I don't know if Clark ever really loved her that way.

[BkWurm1]

In season nine (I believe), Clark tells Chloe he's been talking to Lois rather than Chloe because it's easier since they don't have as much history together. It is a line that seemed inducative of why I found the Clois relationship shallow. Clark didn't want to deal with the deeper stuff that naturally creeps in over time as people really get to know one another. So great early on but it puts a ticking timer on the implosion of the relationship if Clark's big early attraction to the idea of being with Lois was that he didn't have to deal with the important stuff.

And as the relationship went on, it seemed to me that the show continued to say the reason why Clark was with Lois was one, gaurente pew from the future and because she stayed out of his life unless he wanted to include her in something.

After the countless times we saw that Chloe being involved saved Clark and thus the world again and again, the relationship between Lois and Clark seemed weak and watered down and based on Lois knowing her place and Clark abandoning the notion of a true partnership like his parents had. That's not even getting into how wrong for Lois Clark turned out to be.

Doomed to forever come in second, repeating the one thing from her childhood she'd sworn she would never do. It wasn't a lightly made vow. She loved Oliver and when she found out his secret, he wanted them to be together but she would not be with him because she knew she could never be satisfied knowing she couldn't come first. And Clark actually knew this!

Clark the regular stand up solid guy that was just ambitious enough but not obsessed with his job. That's the guy she feel in love with. She initially had a crush on the Blur and helping him made her feel special, but she told Clark that's not the man she was in love with. That's not the life she wanted. Only, Clark really was that guy that was always putting others first. In season ten, Lois talks to Oliver about how hard it is to live in the shadow of someone perfect and god like. Before her wedding it was Chloe that had to explain to her who Clark was and what he needed.

Again and again, the relationship rang hollow.

And they also retconned it like crazy to force it into existence while simultaneouslytrying to tear down his relationship with Chloe. That did not endear me to the ship at all.

[BkWurm1]

I guess the thing about Chlark that bothers me is that Clark never went after Chloe. He let her dictate their relationship. If he really had feelings for her, he would have gone after her. He did it for Lana and Lois. In season nine, Lois tells Clark they should go back to being just friends/partners and a couple of episodes later he's kissing her and they're becoming a couple. Chloe definitely loved Clark, but I don't know if Clark ever really loved her that way.

I meant to tie this in to my post.

Based on that comment Clark made about it being simpler to talk to Lois who he didn't have so much baggage, I saw Clark not acting on feelings or letting them develope past friendship because Clark wasn't emotionally mature enough to handle letting their relationship go to the next level. Chloe knew him almost better than he knew himself. She held him accountable. She expected his best from him. He let himself rely on her like he never did with Lois or Lana. In season six when a phantom from the zone stuck him into a virtual world where he was "crazy", he stuck to his belief in himself...until Chloe died. Lana was the lure but losing Chloe is what broke him in that dream world.

Fear of messing up their friendship is what IMO kept him from acting on the feelings I saw that he had at the end of season five/start of six. Then when she was with Jimmy and it turned out she was meteor infected, he seemed to think that she was better off having the normal life he wanted and away from the harm his world could do to her. Then Davis happened and somehow Clark blamed his connection to Chloe on people dying and instead of dealing with what happened, he ran away physically and emotionally and focused on a more shallow relationship. One that let him not think about the past and one that was completely ignorant of the personal crisis he was having over who he was and where he belonged. One that did not point out to him he had his head up his arse about Zod.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the things he liked about Lois where also things he'd liked about Chloe. But there was less risk if he messed up with her and she didn't expect so much out of him. In season nine, the relationship he had with Lois was one where he pretended he was normal. He kept Lois out of his real life. He seemed to think it was safer on both a physical and emotional level.

In season ten, he'd decided not to continue a relationship with her. It was only after he got seeming gaurentees that Lois was the one he was supposed to be with that he rekindled their relationship and eventually let her in on the truth (even if she already knew). At that point Clark turned his life choices over to destiny (which was sadly ironic since the earlier message of the show was that destiny was what you make of it). Even after they were engaged they still kept the same kind of deal, where Lois was only involved in his real life when he allowed it. (Or it was a global thing).

And still, it wasn't Lois that saves him but Chloe...by stopping his wedding. Oh my goodness the meta!! Toss in a hug between he and Chloe where Oliver scowls while watching and Clark looks suddenly stricken by some realization. (Slow mo reveals so many expressions) and Oliver having to chase after a wife that left without a word to him followed by Clark sneaking out to the barn right afterward without saying a word to Lois and top it all off with a seven year flash forward where we find them still un married and now even hiding their relationship at work, and yeah, it's no wonder I finished the show convinced that no, Clark was not going to make it to that wedding either.

[Athena]

From the Oliver Queen thread:

I have a lot of issues with season eight Oliver but I enjoyed him a lot in the back half of season nine. I got very frustrated with him in the first half of season ten with some of his choices and I'll thought out reasoning but still enjoyed him. I thought his chemistry with Chloe was incredible but at the same time, I still bought into he and Lois as the better couple. Oliver and Chloe were more romantic but I bought into the friendship between Oliver and Lois more. Mostly because I think Chloe didn't let herself feel much of anything deep after how she'd been burned in season eight.

 

I prefer Chloe shipping to any other Lois ship for anyone on this show, but I do agree with your last line that Chloe and the writers held back. It's sad because AM and JH had a lot of chemistry and were probably one of my favourite couples from this show.

[Chloe]

 

True, Chloe does unconditionally love Clark, but so does Lois. Lois has also been the one to encourage him, not only as a hero but also as Clark. It was her who encouraged him to stop moping around a farm and actually do something with his life. This isn't to take away from Chloe at all, but she supported him no matter what he did and sometimes that can be a bad thing.

 

Well, GilmoreFan I agree with the points you make except for one: I don't agree with the point that she supported him no matter what, because Chloe always tells Clark that what it's the best for him. And maybe he didn't encourage Clark specifically to go the Daily Planet because she wasn't sure he'd be happy being a full-time reporter. However, she was happy with him with his decision. 

I'm not saying that Lois told him to do something bad. Despite of the fact that Clark was not extremely happy being a reporter-not as much as Chloe or Lois- (though he liked that) I'm not sure if Lois' intentions were completely pure: didn't she want someone with her, someone attractive and cool? (what Clark wasn't).

 

Because then, I don't understand why Lois didn't encourage Chloe to return to another newspaper because she really wanted that.

 

BkWurm1 the first post you've written today clearly summarises everything I think in regards to Chlark.

I meant to tie this in to my post.

Based on that comment Clark made about it being simpler to talk to Lois who he didn't have so much baggage, I saw Clark not acting on feelings or letting them develope past friendship because Clark wasn't emotionally mature enough to handle letting their relationship go to the next level. Chloe knew him almost better than he knew himself. She held him accountable. She expected his best from him. He let himself rely on her like he never did with Lois or Lana. In season six when a phantom from the zone stuck him into a virtual world where he was "crazy", he stuck to his belief in himself...until Chloe died. Lana was the lure but losing Chloe is what broke him in that dream world.

Fear of messing up their friendship is what IMO kept him from acting on the feelings I saw that he had at the end of season five/start of six. Then when she was with Jimmy and it turned out she was meteor infected, he seemed to think that she was better off having the normal life he wanted and away from the harm his world could do to her. Then Davis happened and somehow Clark blamed his connection to Chloe on people dying and instead of dealing with what happened, he ran away physically and emotionally and focused on a more shallow relationship. One that let him not think about the past and one that was completely ignorant of the personal crisis he was having over who he was and where he belonged. One that did not point out to him he had his head up his arse about Zod.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the things he liked about Lois where also things he'd liked about Chloe. But there was less risk if he messed up with her and she didn't expect so much out of him. In season nine, the relationship he had with Lois was one where he pretended he was normal. He kept Lois out of his real life. He seemed to think it was safer on both a physical and emotional level.

In season ten, he'd decided not to continue a relationship with her. It was only after he got seeming gaurentees that Lois was the one he was supposed to be with that he rekindled their relationship and eventually let her in on the truth (even if she already knew). At that point Clark turned his life choices over to destiny (which was sadly ironic since the earlier message of the show was that destiny was what you make of it). Even after they were engaged they still kept the same kind of deal, where Lois was only involved in his real life when he allowed it. (Or it was a global thing).

And still, it wasn't Lois that saves him but Chloe...by stopping his wedding. Oh my goodness the meta!! Toss in a hug between he and Chloe where Oliver scowls while watching and Clark looks suddenly stricken by some realization. (Slow mo reveals so many expressions) and Oliver having to chase after a wife that left without a word to him followed by Clark sneaking out to the barn right afterward without saying a word to Lois and top it all off with a seven year flash forward where we find them still un married and now even hiding their relationship at work, and yeah, it's no wonder I finished the show convinced that no, Clark was not going to make it to that wedding either.

I put in bold the lines which I most agree with. We have to take into consideration that there is another moment when Clark is clearly shocked with the death of someone: when he knows that Chloe is dead in the beginning of S7: quoting the wikia: 

 

 

"At the same time, Clark tries desperately to find out about Chloe's status, and eventually is told she didn't make it. Disoriented and devastated, Clark's super-hearing turns on and is barraged by all the surrounding noises. He is able to focus on Chloe's yelling for help and comes to her rescue, releasing her from the body drawer"

 

When someone he loves dies he reacts in different ways: when Lana die sin Recknoning, he is devastated and sad, (the same for Jonathan). When Lana dies a second tim, he is full of wrath, and then becomes apathetic. When, after the news of Lana knows that CHloe has died, his body goes out of control and is subconsciously connected to Chloe's voice. I'm not going to say that is to say she is the one she loves the most, but the way the writers made it, it seems that he doesn't know how much he loves Chloe because he doesn't want to deal with the truth.

 

And he's with Lois because of that, because this relationship is comfortable, doesn't make him deal with the past and, also, the things he likes about Lois are the same ones he liked about Chloe.

 

And about destiny: I'm not sure what was the real message about destiny the show did want to give us. For instance, in S8, in Legion we have that according to the wikia:

Lana: Our destiny is not written in some books in the future. We write it ourselves.. everyday.

Clark: The question is... what we write next?

 

I found that more inspiring that the destiny about Clois. However, I'm not going to defend Clana anymore, because now we are discussing Chlark versus Clois.

 

 

She loved Oliver and when she found out his secret, he wanted them to be together but she would not be with him because she knew she could never be satisfied knowing she couldn't come first. And Clark actually knew this!

 

This is also bad writing, she doesn't want a hero, but ends with a hero. That doesn't answer me why she didn't end with Oliver instead. (well, I can understand that Lois felt with Clark, as I mentioned some posts ago, but still, he had to change Clark=a.k.a recruit him for the DP- to love him)

 

From the Oliver Queen thread:

I prefer Chloe shipping to any other Lois ship for anyone on this show, but I do agree with your last line that Chloe and the writers held back. It's sad because AM and JH had a lot of chemistry and were probably one of my favourite couples from this show.

 

I also thing that Lois and Oliver felt more authentic, but Chloe and Oliver were a good second choice (betther one than Clois).

Edited October 19, 2015 by Chloe

[Gilmorefan]

I think maybe we should agree to disagree on Clois and Chlark.

Here's a couple of questions I've been wondering about.

What was your favorite non romantic (with little to no romantic undertones) relationship on the show? I would have to say Clark and Lex. Their friendship was the only thing that kept me going at some parts.

What was your favorite couple that was pretty much disregarded in canon? I'd have to say Whitney and Lana. The age difference was pretty weird, but I thought they had a cute relationship. I liked their goodbye scene at the end of season one.

What was a couple you wish they would have explored or explored further?

I'd say Tess and Oliver. I love their scenes together, and I would have been happy with even a few more flashback scenes.

[Athena]

What was your favorite non romantic (with little to no romantic undertones) relationship on the show? ...

What was a couple you wish they would have explored or explored further?

 

Clark and his parents. I've always love this aspect of Superman's canon: his family relationships are incredibly grounding. It was one thing for them to kill off John, but writing Martha less into the show disappointed me as well.

 

I actually really like the twisted Martha/Lionel relationship. Hey, I ship for chemistry and they did have some. Lionel is evil of course, but they did have some UST.

[Chloe]

What was your favorite non romantic (with little to no romantic undertones) relationship on the show?

Clark and Lex, Lionel and Lex...

 

What was your favorite couple that was pretty much disregarded in canon?

 

Oliver and Lois

What was a couple you wish they would have explored or explored further?

 

Chlark, obviously, but also Clark and Tess and Lois and Oliver 

[Gilmorefan]

Clark and Lex, Lionel and Lex...

I love Clark and Lex. Honestly, Clark was a bad friend to him. Lex wasn't the greatest friend, but he tried really hard. Clark just sort of gave up on him.

I despise Lionel, but his relationship with Lex was very compelling. I could never wrap my head around why he hated Lex so much, even after he found out the truth about Julian.

I actually really like the twisted Martha/Lionel relationship. Hey, I ship for chemistry and they did have some. Lionel is evil of course, but they did have some UST.

They did have chemistry, and it totally weirded me out. I guess it's a habit of the Luthors to become obsessed with Kents

Edited October 21, 2015 by Gilmorefan

[Chloe]

Well, Lex and Lionel were a wonderful duo. I loved their venomous father-and-son relationship. Smallville wouldn't have been the same without them.

[Gilmorefan]

Oh I totally agree. The relationship was fascinating, I can believe that and still dislike Lionel.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I will never be on board with a Martha and Lionel pairing if only because he blackmailed Jonathan into remaining quiet and forcing him to sell out his friends so Lionel would keep quiet about Clark; the FACT that Martha saw Lionel had refined Kryptonite in his vault, along with the key and a file on Clark, and even if she was offscreen/off the show, that Lionel had Clark caged like an animal in that Kryptonite cage, though the last took place after she left.

 

No. Just no.

[BkWurm1]

I will never be on board with a Martha and Lionel pairing if only because he blackmailed Jonathan into remaining quiet and forcing him to sell out his friends so Lionel would keep quiet about Clark; the FACT that Martha saw Lionel had refined Kryptonite in his vault, along with the key and a file on Clark, and even if she was offscreen/off the show, that Lionel had Clark caged like an animal in that Kryptonite cage, though the last took place after she left.

 

No. Just no.

Never said it wasn't very wrong, just very interesting to watch. :D

[BkWurm1]

Just posted the Fever Letter in the Quotes thread and damn, if that wasn't supposed to be end game I know nothing about television or love stories.  I'm sitting here five years post the series finale still pining for the show I was promised.  

 

It would have been epic. 

[Miss Dee]

That's where I'm to. I've read all the arguments for and against for all the ships, and this is what I've concluded:

I'm a pretty easy-going shipper. Just point me to where the two lovers are, and I'll happily follow like a puppy dog. But I'm also a savvy story person. I've read tons of books and plays, watched tons of movies and television. I know how to read the beats of a plot.

There is NO FUCKING WAY a writer allows a letter like that to see the light of day without intending to make good. At the point of that writing, they pretty much telegraphed their intention for Chloe and Clark to get together at some point (probably the Chlois theory as well, but that's more ambiguous here). So I followed.

The writers did something unforgivable in fiction: they engaged with the audience by setting up a particular story arc, and then bailed - and not only that, bailed in the worst possible way: by telegraphing loud and clear that they *were* bailing, yet continuing to hit the same original story beats in subtext, like rubbing it into our faces that they knew this was the original direction but we were never going to get it.

When it became clear to me that they were never going to follow-through, I felt as foolish and as taken in as someone who falls for a long con. I dropped the show and not even Welling's eyes or Rosenbaum's woobiness was enough to get me back. Haven't seen a single frame of it since, and I don't plan to.

All I expect from a story is that it plays fair. Give me all the twists you want, but don't cheat. Don't push your storytelling in a clear direction and then pull a bait and switch.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Miss Dee

[BkWurm1]

Well said!

The writers did something unforgivable in fiction: they engaged with the audience by setting up a particular story arc, and then bailed - and not only that, bailed in the worst possible way: by telegraphing loud and clear that they *were* bailing, yet continuing to hit the same original story beats in subtext, like rubbing it into our faces that they knew this was the original direction but we were never going to get it.

 

When it became clear to me that they were never going to follow-through, I felt as foolish and as taken in as someone who falls for a long con. I dropped the show and not even Welling's eyes or Rosenbaum's woobiness was enough to get me back. Haven't seen a single frame of it since, and I don't plan to.

 

Yeah, they managed to make me feel disrespected and betrayed.   

 

I didn't quit the show until the end of season eight, though I felt like it after they brought back the Fever Letter and had Chloe pretend to dismiss it.  I was at the time able to move past it since she was still under Brainiac's control but it was like TPTB were twisting a knife - one they'd stuck in my back. 

 

There is NO FUCKING WAY a writer allows a letter like that to see the light of day without intending to make good. At the point of that writing, they pretty much telegraphed their intention for Chloe and Clark to get together at some point (probably the Chlois theory as well, but that's more ambiguous here). So I followed.

 

Every sign points to outside interference in the show.  They had their original plans and hopes but between the on going lawsuit that had characters like Lois thrust on them to prove they were not a Superboy tale and eventually new show runners taking over and we're left with broken promises.    

 

#regrets

Edited February 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[DisneyBoy]

Oh you just had to remind me of the Fever Letter, didn't you?

Yeah, Season 8 really confused the heck out of me but also gave me a lot of hope that one way or another Chloe would end up with a good guy - either Clark or Davis.

I was obviously a long-time supporter of the idea that Clark would finally come around and appreciate her romantically, but having Davis around also made me realize that Chloe had spent far too much time hanging her hat on a dream that didn't seem likely to come true. Let's be honest, Clark was an idiot. Davis, at least, was appreciating her from Day One. So naturally, they had to go and flush the entire relationship down the toilet in the most spectacular way and then spend over a year-and-a-half isolating Chloe, as if they resented that she was more appealing than Lois.

There was just no winning for Chloe, so I would have to say the worst relationship on the show was the one between Miss Sullivan and the producers.

Was I wrong to hope for a Season Nine where Chloe would be adored by Davis while Clark stood off in the corner with her cousin, looking like he got the smaller ice cream cone?

Edited March 30, 2016 by DisneyBoy

[BkWurm1]

Was I wrong to hope for a Season Nine where Chloe would be adored by Davis while Clark stood off in the corner with her cousin, looking like he got the smaller ice cream cone?

 

I don't think you were wrong.  I'm not sure that Davis was going to stick around (it felt more like they were moving toward splitting him and then Davis being forced to go into hiding since he was being held responsible for the Doomsday influenced murders - that or Davis nobly sacrificing himself to stop Doomsday) but Clark was flat out being written as finally realizing what Chloe meant to him (again)  His vow to find her.  His jealousy over Davis.  Losing it on the file cabinets, realizing Chloe had been right about finding another way with Davis besides tossing him in the PZ, (that fact that she once again traveled to the Fortress) that absolute lack of any meaningful Clois.  Then earlier in the season of course we had the part where he risked the future of the entire world to save Chloe (Brainiac) I really thought it was building to something again. (which was coming after season seven where they played the compare Lana to Chloe and see why Chloe was the winner all season)

Edited March 31, 2016 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

This is for Chlarkers who might be interested in making videos, art works or writing a fic.    Over on Live Journal, the semi annual Secret Chlark Winter Bash celebrating Chlark is being organized.  It's basically an anonymous exchange of fan created art or fics. (With a reveal of who made what later.) When you sign up, you say what kind of contribution you would make, a few examples of what you'd like to see or read about, and your email.  Then assignments are sent out and you have a month to create something.

Link to Winter Bash rules and sign up

You don't have to be have an account on LJ to participate.  

Here is a quick overview. 

1) We take sign ups for a month. (At this point until Oct 17th)
2) We send out assignments (by Oct 20th) and you have about a month to work on them.
3) We then collect the works. (Emailed back to the mods so everything stays anonymous at first.  The mods will post it on LJ)
4) If we have some that didn't get filled, we get a "pinch hitter" or someone who offered to do a missing project last minute to create something so that everyone gets a gift.
5) We post everything anonymously first and for a week, you can guess who did what on the speculative posts. (And of course praise your awesome gift!) 
6) Then about a week later, we will reveal everyone.
7) Minimums to play: Fic must be at least 1,000 words, Videos must be at least 1 minute, and if you do icons, you need at least five. There is no maximum!

If you are interested click on the link to read the full instructions and sign up!  See you there!

Edited September 18, 2016 by BkWurm1

[DittyDotDot]

10 minutes ago, doram said:

I'm not sure how anyone watched this show and shipped Clark with anybody other than Lex. 

Heh! Now, I'm not a shipper, but that's a ship that not only makes sense to me, but I probably could get behind! ;)