Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different

[benteen]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 6:04 PM, Lantern7 said:

Ever read Captain America: Red, White & Blue? There's a short story from Dean Haspiel where Red Skull and Nightshade brainwash Cap, and he winds up dressing like a pimp, complete with golden "FORT" and "KNOX" knuckles. Turns out it was a movie proposal that horrified Steve and Sam, but that's where my mind went.

Geez, that sounds like when John Byrne did a storyline where a brainwashed Superman does porn.

[starri]

Apart from the price tag (it's at least a double-issue), Civil War II starts off a lot stronger than I would have thought.  I think most of the salient details have made it around between Bendis, Brevoort, and Alonso's interviews as well as the FCBD release, but I'll try and keep things spoiler-free.  I appreciated that they set up the division between Tony and Carol as being a personal one, not just a philosophical one like the original series.  I was a little confused as to why Carol's role comes from her being the head of the Ultimates, as I thought that was Black Panther.  I'm also unsure how this is going to play out across 7 issues.  But so far, not as good as Secret Wars, much better than Original Sin.

The art is fantastic.  There's one great splash page where Thor rides in with New Avengers, the Ultimates, the Inhumans, and the Extraordinary X-Men behind her that was fist-pumpingly awesome.  Yes, its a cliche of the these types of crossovers, but it's the best one I've seen in a long time.

[Lantern7]

I have two questions, since the only Marvel title I'm reading is Spider-Man/Deadpool:

1. Has anybody figured out Peter Parker is Spider-Man? I mean, Tony Stark had Iron Man as his "bodyguard" for years before he went public. Now we got Peter running Parker Industries and he's got Spider-Man in a similar situation. Even if Hobie Brown puts on the webs for the cameras, what prevents people from putting two and two together?

2. Why is Quicksilver in that outfit? I know that lightning bolts are out of the question, but the emblem . ..  no. It looks like it belongs on a remote. Maybe he lost a bet. Or all of the bets.

ETA for benteen: The story was supposed to be funny. Evan Dorkin did two pages of Red Skull and Baron Zemo carrying on like Milk & Cheese. Good times.

[Kromm]

I'm hating what I've seen of Civil War II so far. It just comes off as cash grab leveraging the name, and the story seems to involve a lot of people making arbitrary badly explained choices. I also suspect the ENTIRE story is a gimmick and that they're going to undo the entire thing at the end by insisting it was just a vision of a possible future by this Ulysses character, and that it ends with him simply walking away and deciding to never reveal his power (thus ensuring none of this ever happens). 

[Kromm]

On 6/6/2016 at 10:31 PM, Lantern7 said:

I have two questions, since the only Marvel title I'm reading is Spider-Man/Deadpool:

1. Has anybody figured out Peter Parker is Spider-Man? I mean, Tony Stark had Iron Man as his "bodyguard" for years before he went public. Now we got Peter running Parker Industries and he's got Spider-Man in a similar situation. Even if Hobie Brown puts on the webs for the cameras, what prevents people from putting two and two together?.

I'm not reading S-M/Deadpool, and after a gap of a few years have only recently seen some recent Spider-Man AND Iron Man issues. I have to say that while Slott and Bendis (who's actually doing Iron Man now) are writing fun stories now, there's a ton to swallow. Mary-Jane as a regular in Iron Man, and BOTH of them showing up regularly in the Spidey books. Stark being a real dick to Peter continuously about how clever he... isn't... and yet seemingly having zero clue that Peter is aping his entire previous setup with Iron Man's relationship to Stark.  Slott is really riding this idea that Peter is a "Poor Man's Tony Stark", and it's amusing, but it also seems to have some problems standing up if you analyze it that hard (or expect characters to deal with it in any manner that really makes sense). You can just smell the long-term setup for Peter's company to go under, but it's kind of a mystery how it's even running at all. Lay on top of that. Tony Stark being so nearby, but apparently clueless connecting the same kind of dots he drew once in his own life? I think it mainly depends on him thinking Peter is too much of a bozo to actually BE Spider-Man.  But that also doesn't help explain why nobody else is suspicious either. I mean Tony even used fake Iron Men (drones, or maybe at some point it was Rhodey) to have himself and Iron Man in the same place at the same time (or in two obviously simultaneous different places at the same time), so I don't understand at all why someone appearing to be Spider-Man while Peter Parker is around would necessarily fool anyone. ESPECIALLY since Miles Morales is also around and everyone knows it--or rather another person who dresses JUST like Spider-Man but in reverse colors is around. If I were in that universe I'd be thinking that Peter Parker HAS to be Spider-Man, and that he's simply putting that kid with the reverse color scheme into the other uniform occasionally.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Kromm

[starri]

I may be the only person who's enjoying the main Civil War book, but even I have to draw the line at Civil War: X-Men.  It was a mistake to pick it up, and I should have known better because the tie-in to the original story wasn't very good either.

[starri]

I'm going to make myself a little vulnerable here, and some of it may be due to the fact that I was seeing it at the end of an incredibly stressful period, but there were parts of the most recent issue of Mighty Thor (a series I don't normally consume, but a good review piqued my interest) really got me emotionally.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but they've done a lot more with Thor being a woman than I would have thought possible.  It could have been just about checking boxes, but they make the point that no matter how much fun she has as the Goddess of Thunder, one day a week she has to be Dr. Jane Foster, cancer patient.  

[JessePinkman]

I don't quite understand Civil War II...there have been tons of characters that could see the "future". These characters know all about alternate realities and time travel and whatnot. What's so special about hipster fortune teller?

He reminds of that little girl from House of M. A random insanely powerful character (but without an original power yet all the other characters are exceptionally impressed by them) brought in to drive conflict or resolve the story.

re: Captain America being apart of Hydra, apparently

Spoiler

Kobik, the sentient Cosmic Cube that gave Steve his youth and super solider serum back during Avengers Standoff was under the control of Red Skull. Skull made Kobik implant memories of being a lifelong hydra agent in Steve's mind. So Steve was never really a nazi and the outrage over this twist was all for nothing. Whoops!

I understand why it made people so angry (though I disagree I don't want to minimize someone else's offense) but anyone with sense knew this was coming.

[Demented Daisy]

13 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

I understand why it made people so angry (though I disagree I don't want to minimize someone else's offense) but anyone with sense knew this was coming.

I think everyone -- even those disturbed by the story -- knew it wasn't real.  Most of the disparaging comments I read were not that they expected it to be a "real" change, but that Marvel thought it was a good idea in the first place, even for shock value.

I wish I could find it, but I once read an interview with Tom Brevoort in which he said that angering the fans was good for sales.  Really don't like that guy.

ETA Google search shows that I'm not the only one.  Lots of articles about that quote.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Demented Daisy
Should have googled before posting.

[Dandesun]

Angering fans is a tricky gamble because you can only carry that out for so long. Anger will turn into pure frustration and then apathy and then you've lost them.

They make the same excuses with soap operas 'if they're that angry, they're still watching' -- except, again, you can only milk the anger for so long before they stop watching.

[Lantern7]

Introducing Champions. Am I a sucker for wanting to get this book, even though it's been two decades since the Waid/Ramos run on Impulse? Then again, it's not like DC Comics is in a rush to reprint that run.

[Lantern7]

My reaction to the events in Civil War II #3 in five words: "Yeah, that's not gonna stick."

Anybody else reading Vote Loki? At this point, if one of the real-life candidates decides to float into a rally to "I Need A Hero," I would not be surprised.

ETA: Found this on Bleeding Cool. Skottie Young might have gotten in on the big event, or the cover could be a coincidence.

[Morrigan2575]

Oh come on, I'm sure they really mean it this time. Totally going to stick, for like a whole year even. 

I very rarely buy variant covers but, that's pretty damn cool.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Kromm]

On 7/13/2016 at 2:35 PM, Lantern7 said:

My reaction to the events in Civil War II #3 in five words: "Yeah, that's not gonna stick."

How many times has that particular character been dead before this?

There's a grand overall theory that this Ulysses character is "visioning" this whole entire thing, so nobody is actually dead. I almost think it has to be true, because it would be really out there to kill and bring back multiple characters, but there's no way the person killed in #3 doesn't come back... which would leave them simply killing the black guy. Do they really want to do that these days?

[Demented Daisy]

Totally Awesome Hulk #9 spoils the results of 

Spoiler

Hawkeye's trial -- not guilty.

No surprise there, but it's disturbing.  Not just that someone

Spoiler

(kind of) got away with murder

but this story has already been told.  Many, many times.  Except before, it was "They're dangerous, we have to lock them up!"  And they were talking about mutants specifically.  Now the entire Marvel universe is affected and it doesn't feel fresh or new.  I read the "arguments" and it feels like a tired rehash that was told better the first dozen times or so.

But so what else is new?  *sigh*

[starri]

I actually think the entire universe being affected it was makes it interesting.  The first Civil War was all about the superhumans fighting about whether they needed to be registered or not, something the mutants had dealt with before, and which you're forced to kind of reevaluate when you realized the pro-reg side kind of had a point.  I'm not saying that I would be in favor of all mutants being tracked, any more than I am of Muslims (I bet we're going to see that metaphor in the X-books soon) or any other minority group having to endure that, but seeing it where you realize that people with powers actually are kinda dangerous, it's more uncomfortable.

So too with Civil War Beyond.  I actually thought the Hawkeye thing may have been the turning point where this story actually got interesting, because they've moved from stopping supervillians to going after hero characters who haven't done anything yet.  And with the revelation in #4 about how Ulysses' powers actually work, it gets to be a lot more troubling.  The Ms Marvel tie-in, where we see that they're not just going after the people with super-powers but actual normal people, was frankly the best thing I've read from the event.

[Kromm]

What the event is failing to do--and I think we all knew this would happen from Go--is properly convey this as a two-sided issue. Even when they show the predictions saving people, there's no proper sense that the moral weight of this is being considered by Team Captain Marvel.  There's only vaguely in a few books a sense that these become self-fulfilling prophecies, but even when they clearly aren't we're introduced from the get-go to abuses of the situation. It's not enough to observe people, for example, or relocate them from possible participation in a prophecy, but instead to actually incarcerate them (and it's not clear when that's permanent vs. temporary).

[starri]

The problem is all the subtly is being lost in the main book.  The most recent two issues of Captain Marvel actually had Carol making her case in front of SWORD's governing body, and she honestly did it pretty persuasively.  And I don't think the human cost has been illustrated better than in Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat, of all places.

[Lantern7]

That reminds me .  . . I read "Hooked On A Feline" from the library. I like the trend of comics getting more lady-friendly and silly

[TVSpectator]

I have been reading/following the new Captain America comic books (the ones titled, "Steve Rogers") and I was wondering if anyone else is reading them as well? So, far they are okay and I am enjoying them. 

I am also debating about getting into the new Civil War II comic books that have been coming out as of late- are they worth the read/time for me to pick up the first issue or can I start with reading anyone in no order?

[Kromm]

24 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

I am also debating about getting into the new Civil War II comic books that have been coming out as of late- are they worth the read/time for me to pick up the first issue or can I start with reading anyone in no order?

In a word?  No.

In more words?  It is not that there aren't some stand out issues coming out individually for the CWII thing, but it is getting very rinse, wash, repeat pretty quickly even when they are the squirrel who finds the nut.  And really whatever reset they inevitably are going to have to do to undo this crap is going to happen and annoy the shit out of us no matter what.

Really just go by characters you like, and if it happens to intersect CWII, so be it.  Although I'd argue for a character who Marvel plans to lead a big franchise film in about 2 years, they are making a pretty huge jackass of Captain Marvel right around now.

[TVSpectator]

Thanks for the response. I figure that CWII will be a waste of my time (and money) but I was wondering if it actually had something to add other than just rinse and wash. This also seems to be the main argument about the All-New Marvel comic book line. It just rinses, washes, and repeat but sometimes they try to twist things up with a different (not new) character playing a different role (Like Jane as Thor). Although, I have heard promising stuff from the new Rikki as Iron Man because Rikki Williams is a totally brand new character. 

[starri]

I've like quite a few of the tie-ins. Much more than the main book. 

[Kromm]

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #11 is one of the best issues of anything I've read in years.  A really cute idea executed amusingly.  I won't spoil it though other than to say it's a very unique idea for a comic book issue.

That title and Patsy Walker seem to be totally killing it for the Marvel Comedy books overall. 

[Terrafamilia]

Civil War II: Choosing Sides # 5

So Tony Stark and Justin Trudeau are old boxing buddies? And they are such good buds that Tony can cry on Justin's shoulder?!? Tony doesn't even do that with Steve.

I don't think I've ever felt like throwing a comic across the room before.

[Kromm]

15 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

Civil War II: Choosing Sides # 5

So Tony Stark and Justin Trudeau are old boxing buddies? And they are such good buds that Tony can cry on Justin's shoulder?!? Tony doesn't even do that with Steve.

I don't think I've ever felt like throwing a comic across the room before.

I have.  But I agree this was indeed that level of stupid.

[TVSpectator]

So over the weekend I got the chance to read the first issue of Gwenpoole and I found it to be funny as hell. From what I can gather it seems that the story (in issue #1) takes place at a bank where the main character Gwen, narrates. It turns out that she somehow was able to travel into the Earth-616 (or at least what I assume to be Earth-616) universe from the real world.  Although my main issue with her is that, I so won't be opening up a bank account if I was working as a superhero/ mercenary and another issue was how her sidekick hacker friend was able to brush aside his uncle's death so easily. 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, for some reason i thought Gwenpool was Gwen Stacy, just like Spider-Gwen.

[starri]

Originally, she was.  It was a variant cover that people really latched onto.  When she got her own series, she was retconned (if that's even the right word) as Gwen Poole.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks foe the explanation! 

[starri]

Arrrrrgh!

[Kromm]

Spider-Man #8 was one of the better issues of the whole Civil War II thing. It was a split issue between a good ongoing plot with Jessica Jones, and a different view of the Bruce Banner thing they've shown ten different times in various titles.  But this was probably the best of those views. 

On 9/6/2016 at 7:09 PM, starri said:

Originally, she was.  It was a variant cover that people really latched onto.  When she got her own series, she was retconned (if that's even the right word) as Gwen Poole.

Interesting that the latest issue (with Miles Spidey as the guest) showed what a total ass Gwen is. An interesting way to go. I guess they're aping Deadpool even more than just the name, even though she's a pretty blonde girl with no powers instead of an ugly healing mutant. 

[starri]

So, they introduced a love interest for Teen Bobby in ANXM.  He's a newly awakened Inhuman because of course he is.  And his name is Romeo, because creativity is dead.  They tried to lampshade that part, but only made it worse.

[Bruinsfan]

I'm glad I'd seen previews, because I was picking up that title and would have shelled out good money for the issue if I hadn't been forewarned.

At least Northstar's love life has been handled relatively well. Perhaps him being treated largely as part of the "and the rest" ensemble in recent years has prevented writers from focusing on involving him in too much contrived relationship drama. (I can see super heroes making a conscious choice to only date each other because of the risks involved, but when every significant other just happens to turn out to be a secret mutant, Skrull imposter, or whatever it just makes me stop caring.)

[Kromm]

Yeah, I wish Bobby being gay had been handled half-competently. And actually, the whole "X-Men out of time" thing overall has just seemed confusing, arbitrary and nonsensical the longer it goes on. 

Speaking of nonsense... enough with the Inhumans already. So sick of them.

Also, someone who's been paying more attention than me... what's the deal with the FF now?  I know Ben is in outer space. And Johnny for some reason seems to have some new outfit and hangs out with only those stupid Inhumans now. And there's a lame ass Evil Reed from some other universe. 

Are Sue, non-evil-Reed and their annoying kids on extended vacation since that lame Secret Wars event? I have to admit I didn't even read the end of that crap and just caught up reading a summary I've forgotten most of, but I know I haven't seen them since (and barely Ben and Johnny). I know there was some business where they were all dead... but then later not dead with Sue as Doom's wife, then that got undone too somehow. Last I heard they should be "not dead" now, with whatever crap Doom did undone, but they don't seem to be appearing in any current books (unless I missed those books). Commercially I'm sure that has a lot to do with that shitbomb of a last FF movie, but has there ever been a period before with NO Fantastic Four book of any kind being published?

[Lantern7]

They're busy creating universes. Or something. All because Marvel doesn't have the film rights to "Fantastic Four."

[Joe]

And also, apparently the sales figures for the last FF series were pretty bad. But they'll come back in a few years. There's nothing wrong with giving characters a rest, letting readers miss them.

[Kromm]

38 minutes ago, Joe said:

And also, apparently the sales figures for the last FF series were pretty bad. But they'll come back in a few years. There's nothing wrong with giving characters a rest, letting readers miss them.

It's more that the FF pieces that ARE "around" now are pretty lame. Ben in Guardians of the Galaxy seems really underused from the little I've seen of recent issues of that (only scattershot admittedly).

Johnny seems so badly used with the Inhumans (not just their core titles but crossovers with them) that it took a while for me to realize the character they occasionally showed WAS him. 

Evil Reed is just all around lame. I mean he was lame from what I recall when he was being used as a FF opponent, but he's triply lame when there's no FF around. I'm not even clear why Evil Reed is still around either, since one of the few things I recall from the lame ass Secret Wars thing is that "616 Reed" was responsible for rebuilding the MCU... so why would he include an Evil Reed as part of that? I mean Miles Morales I can get. Some nice kid who if you dragged him over would be a boon. But Evil Reed?  Don't get it at all. 

Speaking of Reed Richards... can someone explain to me why the Spider-Gwen-verse Reed Richards is African-American?  It doesn't offend my sensibilities or anything, but the other characters I recall from that seem like actual alternates of the same people who wound up in different places. A race-bended Reed is the puzzler for me, because that would be more about a change that goes back an entire other generation (who Reed's father marries presumably, assuming African-American Reed is mixed race and they're just not saying so). 

[Kromm]

Also... ugh.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/09/19/marvel-announces-new-she-hulk-comic-for-december-2016

This is exactly the wrong direction to go with She-Hulk. Part of the reason she was so successful as a character IMO is that she wasn't just a copy of stupid Bruce. Making her unstable and violent has been done before for short hauls, but really do we want to see it again?  Especially since the Amadeus Cho version of Hulk, from the hints they dropped in CWII is ALSO going that way.

[starri]

OTOH, Kate Bishop is getting her own solo series. 

[starri]

There have been parts of Civil War II: The Desolation of Smaug that I've actually liked, but...

EEEEEEEUUUUUHHHHHH!

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, starri said:

There have been parts of Civil War II: The Desolation of Smaug that I've actually liked, but...

EEEEEEEUUUUUHHHHHH!

Do we even want to talk about who they made the apparent guilty party (we didn't see it only the aftermath so I suppose there's still some doubt)?

[bmoore4026]

I just found out that X-Men '92 is being cancelled.  It was fun as a mini-series, but I just didn't have an investment in it as a regular series.  Now, if they had the X-Men '92-verse take over the 616 version of the X-Men, then I'd be happy.

[Lantern7]

Did Marvel leave a letter for the readers? "It not you, it Marvel."

Seriously, though, I'll pick up the series when it gets collected.

[starri]

Sweet!

[Morrigan2575]

I used to read Gen X back in the day. I'm a huge Jubilee fan.  Hope she gets a main role and it does well.

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I used to read Gen X back in the day. I'm a huge Jubilee fan.  Hope she gets a main role and it does well.

Well we've been getting a Comedy Jubilee in the Patsy Walker book, at the very least.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Well we've been getting a Comedy Jubilee in the Patsy Walker book, at the very least.

Oh that's cool. I actually dropped all my titles after the last Marvel reboot. I lost interest again.

[starri]

There's some speculation (and I think perhaps not incorrect) that Resurrxion (gah!) will involve Original Recipe Jean's return from wherever she goes when she dies.  They've announced a solo Jean book, and pointedly not specified which version.

We've also got Cable, Weapon X, and Iceman solos (I think it's Adult Bobby in the latter).  And two new flagship titles, X-Men Gold and X-Men Blue.  And no more "Mutants staring into the abyss of extinction" either.

21 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Hope she gets a main role and it does well.

She will.  I'm betting she's going to be den mother to the younger mutants.

[Lantern7]

On 10/23/2016 at 3:08 PM, Kromm said:

Well we've been getting a Comedy Jubilee in the Patsy Walker book, at the very least.

Is Jubes still a vampire? I met a cosplayer at NYCC, and she had the fangs in. Here's the pic with her and Bishop at a train station.

I got Squirrel Girl Beats Up The Marvel Universe from the library. Wouldn't recommend it to casual fans at a hardcover price, but it's pretty entertaining, even though we don't see everybody get a SG beatdown. I met Ryan North, and he said that he was the one who came up with the trade paperback titles. The fourth volume? "I Kissed A Squirrel And I Liked It."